PeterDavid.net

Hey there! First of all, -loved- this issue of X-Factor. The emotion was conveyed well in the whole issue, and we get a real sense of how tense the situation is right now. Not so sure what to think on the convo between Layla and Madrox though... *cough*

Anyway, I heard word from a friend at the ComicCon that you liked the Madrox shirts we made :) If you'd like one, just hit me up via e-mail and I'd be more than happy to send one your way.

enjoyed both and out of a huge amount of books this week x-factor was the book of the week. what issue of spider-man adventures do you take over?
cheers Bill

X-Factor: You are just having a ball writing the character of Layla, aren't you? Nice line about she and Maddrox getting married in the future. Only now did I stop to think she might be pulling his chain - whether she is or isnt', either way it works great.

I think the stance X-Factor took reflects your own views strongly, vis-a-vis Bush and company, but I don't have a problem with that (I agree with you and the characters). You sold it well within the book. Maybe someone who doesn't know your own views wouldn't pick up on that. Maybe a Republican reader would, and be annoyed? I'll be interested to read what others think.

Spidey: Nice twist on the Ben ending. I can't say I saw that coming. I'm curious if we'll ever find out how the "Homeless Ben" got there - or maybe we did before and I've missed something, I'm late to this book. Some great potential here. But what I really appreciated, and why I'm back as a fan of your work lately are all the truly human touches in your work. I felt Aunt May's reaction was very "real". Perfectly unexpected within the story - two long lost lovers reunited - but at the same time, it felt just right.

So, bravo on both books. An excellent month.

I spent the weekend getting caught up on a lot of Marvel comics, and read all of FNSM from the Other on.

Keep in mind I'm a big fan of your work, Peter. I'm buying your book on writing comics. I've loved a lot of what you've written before. I've drank the PAD Kool-Aid.

But this last story was just terrible, some of the worst Spider-Man comics I've ever read. This story's up there with the excess of the Clone Saga and Sins Past. It's a bad clunker that damages a character that shouldn't be damaged without a REALLY good reason, Ben Parker. The story didn't give me that reason.

Yes, I accept this isn't the "real" Ben Parker. This Ben failed at raising Peter on his own. This Ben was rejected by Aunt May, and didn't stick around to try to convince her that he was real. But a murderer?

I sort of get it. Take a man and push him beyond belief, and he'll do anything. But why make Ben Parker that man? I came away with the same disgust I felt when I read Sins Past, that the guy writing the story didn't really understand a major character in the Spider-Man legend. It made no sense to me then that Gwen slept with Norman AND NOT Peter. And it makes no sense to me that a Ben Parker could murder a man in cold blood, not when it really wasn't necessary, not when other options had been pursued. The ending felt rushed and tacked-on and inappropriate, and it wiped out any enjoyment I had.

After reading all of the stories in the past year, I'm really left wondering if this title hasn't wandered astray from its initial vision. When FNSM was first hyped, we were promised that Ringo was looking to draw a Ross Andru-inspired Spidey, and that we were going to get some great stories. But the need to show the Spider-Armor has eliminated that, and the stories post-Other just haven't been that special. We've gotten a one-off about a woman who thinks Spidey is a stalker, a two-part story about a family of Mexican wrestlers, and now the Spider-Man of 2211, which had promise until you killed him off. I'm just left thinking that you and Ringo are capable of better work, and it's not there.

Sorry, PAD. I really didn't like this one. Hopefully I'll like the next one.

I'm not sure what other options Ben had at that moment. Spider-Man 2211 told him he was there to return him to his own timeline. That was stupid...he should have just done it. Spider-Man 2211 didn't seem very smart in several places.

There are no good reasons for Uncle Ben to return to that timeline. His son is a better man in this timeline, and Aunt May is here. He is sticking around to try to convince her. (He had to leave the scene, or otherwise he might have been arrested for harassment. But regrouping isn't the same as giving up.)

The only power Uncle Ben had to resist losing this Peter and this Aunt May for good, lay in that gun. And he knew it.

I'm not even sure Spider-Man of 2211 is dead. There is a huge time paradox that needs to be resolved -- by someone from 2211. And once it is resolved, Spider-Man 2211 might be alive again.

-- Regarding X-Factor. I certainly hope Layla is pulling Madrox's chain. What is there -- 25 years difference in their ages? If she's not, Madrox should be locked up now before he has a chance to commit the crime.

"Son" above should obviously be in quotes. That's how Uncle Ben feels about Peter.

This issue of X-Factor raised something I've noticed about "Civil War": The two sides seem to be talking about different things. (Which is actually very realistic as far as political arguments go in the real world...)

Perhaps this has been stated more explicitly in one of the other crossovers (I've only been buying the core book and the titles I buy anyway), so I'll ask: Does the Superhuman Registration Act apply to a) costumed vigilantes (i.e. people who fight crime without direct legal sanction), or b) people with super-powers, regardless of what they do with them? (Or c), both?) In other words, does it apply to someone like Kate Bishop of Young Avengers, who fights crime without any super-powers, or to random mutant A who has superpowers but never dreamed of using them to fight crime? Is it about what you do or who you are?

The impression I've had (reinforced by things like the "Daily Bugle" special) is that it's a). Jamie's speech in this issue suggests that he thinks it's b). (Or possibly that a) will inevitably lead to b), which is an understandable attitude from him but not necessarily true.)

I ask because this makes a big difference to the reader in evaluating the Act itself (as opposed to how it's enforced). A government taking a say in who gets to enforce its laws is a lot more reasonable than one going after people just because of how they were born or what accident they may have had with radiation.

In a related question, which may have some bearing on the team's reaction, does anyone on the team besides Jamie have a PI license? Because it's possible they've been violating New York state law, with the SRA having nothing to do with it. (Yeah, no one ever worries about that sort of thing in comics, but being a PI is different from just going out and fighting crime, and I really doubt they make an exception because you're a mutant.)

Ray pretty much said everything I wanted to say about FNSM. I've been a fan since your very first Spider-Man story arc, Pete, and I've tried to stay on with FNSM, but the ending to this series was the last straw. When I first saw that you were bringing Uncle Ben back, I said that unless you pulled a very impressive rabbit out of your hat, I'd be dropping the book. You didn't. You simply stuck with the tried and true Marvel tradition of cheapening the death of a character. Once again the point is driven home to us - "who cares if a character dies? They'll come back. Anyone can come back. Sure, they might be a clone or from an alternate universe, but it's still them and they're back!"

It's part of why I never get excited about any so-called major story or "event" in comics now. I know that as soon as a new writer and/or editor comes in and wants to change things, or if someone thinks it's going to make a lot of money, or just because a new guy on a title has a grudge against the previous guy (something you're familiar with), no changes to a title are permanent.

X-Factor is awesome and Dennis Calero's artwork is getting better (i.e. "readable"). The ending on FN Spidey was... unsatisfying, mostly because the current storyline is ending. If I knew that I'd have more Tales of Two Bens to come, then I'd be excited. As it is, I have to wait for the plot point to come back. And, if my luck and your luck ring true, they'll kick you off the book before you get to do it! Those bastards!!

Another fun issue of X-Factor. Of course, it's great that this is as much "House of M Fallout" as it is "Civil War", with the X-Men being a bit (although not entirely) on the sidelines for this big event and all.

Does any of the internet talk back influence a creator? I am thinking it must, at least subconsciously, to have every point of every issue analyzed deeply by dozens of people. But I am thinking this might be a bad thing.

As far as the stories, I don't read X-Factor, but FNSM has been very good. I read the first issue of Uncle Ben Returns, and I really enjoyed it-but then, I am a big fan of alternate reality stories. It was very sad too, which was a good thing, it made me feel.

I have not read beyond that, though it is ordered, because I switched to mail order, but ordered way too late and June and July at the same time, and they are apparently and hopefully sending my June and Julys together the first week of August, because I did not get the June books yet.

Okay, who was that guy in the alley that Ben shot? Why was his face not fully shown, and what did the portions of it that were shown identical to Uncle Ben? This confused me. And as much as I like Mike Wieringo's art (The only professional sketch hanging in my room is a headshot of Rogue by him), I don't think the art served the story very well. I don't know if it was him, or the inker, or what, but I think there needed to be a variance in line weight for such a heavy story. The shots of the time manipulators in that control room, and that shot of the dystopic scene of wrecked buildings, etc. would have benefited from a greater sense of depth, IMO.

As for X-Factor, I liked it a lot. I'm really intrigued at all the possibilities that characters like Layla and Jamie provide, and Peter, you're certainly milking it well. I do sometimes wonder all the exterior shots of characters standing in the street show the street to be completely deserted, except for the characters central to the story, but I appreciate the fine line Callero and company provide to those background buildings.

FNSM was a great issue PAD, I loved the time paradox.

It will be interesting to see how the entire Jarvis, Aunt May, Uncle Ben triangle pans out.

XFactor...I notice that Quicksilver is becoming more and more like Magneto.

[Is there any chance that we will see a cameo from the Master of Magnetism in the near future?]

Regards:
Warren Samuel Jones III

Anyone tell me what's up with X-Factor-I mean, a description of the general vibe or "mission" of it compared to other X books. Generally on a mission to streamline what X books I am collecting and that is why didn't pick this up.

I did enjoy many of PAD's work, including Hulk, Aquaman, FNSM, and Captain Marvel for awhile. and Jean DeWolf. I also liked, at least for a time it is hard to remember, a previous run on X-Factor. I am not sure what else he did that I have read, I used to not pay too much attention to creators.

FNSM:Just a so so story with some fun elements. However, if this so so story leads into a much better story down the road, cool. Other than retcon bombs, this whole arc left me pretty luke warm. The dialog between Ben and May felt off. I just couldn't see Ben, or anyone else, ever, act like that with May. Walking away after a minute of confused talking? With the wife you haven't seen in decades?

I'm not too concerned with bringing back Ben, or clones, or alternate universes, etc. If you don't like genre conventions, change genre. Tell a good story with is, and that's all that matters to me.

XFactor: I should mention that I cut my comic book teeth on the first XFactor, so anything that reminds me of that will get bonus points for me. This is the first comic in the series where I chuckled out loud, so that makes me pretty happy.

The dialog in the whole issue was a tight as I'd expect from a PAD book, but the end with the X-Men was just great. The last line, where Cyclops said he's not going to help X-Factor in the future, was just money. I wanted Jamie to strangle him and yell that that's what they've been saying, but its clear why he didn't.

I think its time to show a little more of Guido. He always reminded me of Hawkeye, with the jokes and quips and internal emotional pain and depression. This can dovetail really well with what's going on in the story.

Rahne's character needs to pewp or get off the pot. What does she contribute to the story? I haven't seen a justification for her yet.

Keeping Madrox as the centerpiece seems to be working. He seems like a different Madrox from the one from the old X-Factor. I would have chalked that up to different writers writing an inconsistent character... Is this related to his 'death'? Will you be exploring that at all? Am I just wrong?

LOVED the X-factor issue. Thanks for writting it.

* sigh *

Y'know...I *thought* fans were observant. I *thought* they could put things together.

There is a huge verbal clue on the last page of FNSM that makes clear to anyone who is truly observant that all is not what it seems. There are further clues in the previous issue--a dangling thread--that should lead you to the right conclusions. No one on any board has picked up on it. I was hoping someone here would.

Gentleman, I'm disappointed. Serious disappointment here. I'm talking to you, Ray Cornwall. You too, Iowa Jim. You're letting me down. Rise to the challenge. Figure it out. It's all right there.

PAD

Intersection points, by any chance?

To be honest PAD, I thought the man in the alley was Chameleon when I first saw it, and that Chameleon killed Uncle Ben and took on his form. It was just that looking at the art at the end of the issue of the facedown body I couldn't tell if it was Uncle Ben or if maybe it was body jumper then I got real confused.

So, the guy who gave Ben the gun was ALSO Ben from another reality.

That one was evil Ben and when the first Ben didn't take the gun, he killed him and left him lying in the alley (for some reason he stuck a hat on him. er...)

The Ben the future Spiderman was trying to return to the other reality was evil Ben.

I assume that's what was going on, but...

I have to concur it wasn't the best story. I'm not concerned with the whole childhood raping Ben thing, simply that I found the plot a bit convoluted and focused mostly on characters I had no interest in instead of Peter himself.

Er.. or as the poster above said, it was Chameleon. Just the Chameleon from the alternate reality, explaining how he happens to be alive again in future stories.

If nothing else, we have two Uncle Bens at the end, one who shoots Spidey 2211, and one left dead/dying in the alley (from the last panel). And thus the stranger in the cap that the main Ben (Ben-1) meets in the alley is almost certainly another Ben (Ben-2). One key bit of information we are missing. What happens between the scene in the alley, and the scene at the grave? Specifically, which Ben is shot, and which does the shooting? We are being lead to believe that Ben-1 shoots Ben-2, and then Spidey 2211. But it could just as easily have gone the other way. That could be Ben-1 lying dead/dying, and Ben-2 is the one that shoots the other two. And with Ben-2, we have no idea what his motives are in all this. Ben-1 being the shooter just seems a bit out of character, even with all he's gone through. But we have no idea who Ben-2 really is.

On a different, but vaguly related subject, I had to chuckle at the Doctor Who in-joke in the alley scene. For anyone who does not watch, the phrase "Bad Wolf" was prominent in the first season of the new Doctor Who series, popping up all over the place as an ongoing mystery that was finally resolved in the first season finalle.

Um, PAD, I didn't enjoy the issue the first time, clue or not. You're going to make me read it *again*?

And if Angelophile is right, and it's ANOTHER Ben, but this one was evil, and so on and so forth, then you killed off a Ben I was somewhat interested in AND a Spider-Man 2211 I was somewhat interested, all for a story that no one you've read has figured out. Even if you're right, and I missed something, what's the payoff to the reader for following all this? Sometimes a bad story is a bad story. I had caught that there was something hinky going on with the two Bens, but by then, I had given up caring.

I'll tell you what, though- I'll give it another shot when I get home tonight. I'll post and tell you what I think, then.

PAD,

X-Factor: Loved it! This is currently at the top of my MUST READ pile. Layla Miller is my favourite character. My wife's friend was talking to her about Anne Rand (sp?)'s "Atlas Shrugged" and I couldn't help but let them know about that particular scene with Layla Miller reading the same book on a New York street.

A note to spiderrob8: The general vibe or feeling one gets from X-Factor is that of a "Film Noire" movie. And what is that? The best description was given by a character in the first few pages of the MADROX mini-series.

FNSM: I've got to admit that I wasn't thrilled at the beginning of this story arc that "Uncle Ben is back from the dead". I was afraid that this whole idea was going to be a 'Retcon Bomb'!!
But I'm genuinely intrigued at the story possibilities of having evil Uncle Ben from an alternate reality running loose in the Marvel 616 Universe.

So the future Hobgoblin mentioned (while talking to Spidey) that she's been mucking with the timeline for a while now. And Evil Ben was from yet another alternate reality. Somehow -- being almost identical in thought patterns -- he knew that the First Ben would show up at that spot. Evil Ben tempted him into commiting suicide (which he did) and then killed the future Spiderman at the gravesite. Presumably he did this because he has unfinished business with the Marvel 616 Spidey. Have I got it right, or am I missing something?

Until Uncle Ben runs for political office,
Make mine ....er, um.... PAD!

OK, while sitting here at work, I think I figured it out, PAD. I will go home and verify it tonight.

I am not sure I like what the real story is, but if it is what I think it is, I will admit that it is a bit better than I thought. I think.

I kinda figured alternate Ben gave himself the gun.... Not sure how but it seemed to be the case.

Warning: the following is a geeky, fangirl response on what is otherwise a serious message forum, from me, a usually serious comic book fan not used to being so happy with Marvel and X-books....

PAD, I love X-FACTOR. Each issue is better than the last. But now, with Pietro in the book, I'm ecstatic. Please tell me you can keep Quicksilver around as an adjunct to the team.

I liked Pietro's nifty suit and tie, in #9, and was he renting the best apartment (or is it a condo) in mutant town? Did he go into the future, see what stocks were winners, or what lottery numbers would be picked, and make himself a fortune? I love the way Pietro is being written now. (I am a huge fan of David Hine's SON OF M, also.)(I loved Bendis' HOUSE OF M, too, which I get a lot of flack for.)

Have you ever written Magneto? I second the request for a Magnus cameo.

Best characterization of Maddrox ever. Siryn is awesome.

Rahne is one of my favorite comic book characters -- but I have one complaint. She's too plain-Jane in the last few issues. I thought she'd gotten over that repressed Calvinistic mopey behavior. She started to look more elegant, and sexy, in recent years. I recall the prediction of what Rahne will look like as an adult, in an old issue of NEW MUTANTS, and she will be classy and gorgeous. Could the artist maybe move a little more in that direction?

As for Layla, awesome character. Someone on one of the message boards came up with a theory that I subscribe to -- I think Layla is a "time-dupe" of her future adult self. Contrasted to Maddrox's "spatial" dupes. Current time, duplicates everything on him, in his pockets, etc exactly the way the exist at that moment in time. But with Layla, and possibly the Tryps, the dupes extend throughout her life-cycle -- child Laylas, teen Laylas, young adult Laylas, old lady Laylas -- you could do a whole lesson on Erikson's life stages just using Layla. (You know, Autonomy vs. Shame, or Industry vs. Inferiorty, or Intimacy vs. Isolation, etc.) Of course, that's just a theory, and if that's not correct -- NEVVERRMIND. (But it would explain the creepy comment that Layla made saying she will be married to Jamie one day, in the sense that her future self is married to him at the same time she's saying it. Layla would then not be a precog, but just sharing the thoughts, memories, and perspective of her future self-dupes.) (But like I said, if this is all wrong, then oh well ... :-) )

Everyone connected with this book is doing an excellent job. I can only thank Quesada profusely for giving X-FACTOR back to you, with most of the old team to boot. All of the X-books are great right now, but X-FACTOR is my favorite book, and the one I read sitting in the car outside the comic book store, before I can even start the car to drive home!

DrObviousSo
Are you aware that PAD wrote the first X-Factor book that you are so fond of? He left after issue #89- one of the editorial requests that Peter did not agree with was the death of Multiple Man. The Jamie he writes now is very consistent with the Jamie he wrote back then- he has just had more time to explore the character.

Hello,

For FNSM I was hoping someone to explain it to me. I have the idea...

Spider-man 2211 would have taken Uncle Ben back into the past, but that would have caused the problem of living with spider-man when he would not be a hero. Or going back to die/hide. If he hide, it would be a terriable life as a street bum so not to mess up Peter's life.

But I could be reading it wrong and curious about other ways.

I'm confused about the Bens too. I'll have to go back and look at it again....

PAD, I've two questions about X-Factor #8 if you don't mind. (My shop sold out when it was originally released and only restocked this past week.)

1). Siryn's examples of ridiculous lawsuits, are those actual cases you read about or did you make them up? (They sound sufficiently absurd to be real.)

2). I might be missing something here since I'm not as mutant-savvy as I used to be, but does Siryn have a persuasion power associated with her voice? I ask because I cannot imagine how she could possibly successfuly vamp Peter Parker into revealing the truth behind M-Day. (He's got a supermodel wife at home for God's sake.)

"Regarding X-Factor. I certainly hope Layla is pulling Madrox's chain. What is there -- 25 years difference in their ages? If she's not, Madrox should be locked up now before he has a chance to commit the crime."

Huh? More like 10-15 years. Just how old do you think Madrox is? But even if you were right, it would hardly be a crime to marry her.

Um, in the future, that is.

I enjoyed the FNSM arch - though I think I missed something you meant to convey. I know we are supposed to be a bit smarter than the average monkey, but if nobody got it - surely you can't blame the readers. That's like getting ticked at people if they don't laugh at your jokes.

Loved the reference to Doctor Who - in my view a cut above american sci-fi, and indeed the inspiration for much of it. I'm thinking the Bad Wolf may even be a clue to your secret plot... but I still didn't get it. Liked what I DID get, though.

I didn't actually even pick up on the duel Ben's - - for this I blame the artist (passing quality, but all too average - not a selling point for the book).

If Chameleon IS involved - that would be cheap and stupid. Might as well say the Skrulls are involved, or Mystique, or the bloody freakin' Devil. I don't think so.
I wasn't put off or annoyed with the subject until you shamed readers for not entirely getting it :). I was happy to have Ben dragged about and used in a story - - allowing characters to actually be AFFECTED and CHANGED is a lost art in comics. Peter and May should be reflecting on that experience for a long time to come.

Loved X-Factor - and I feel it is Marvel's strongest book, by a good distance. I read a handful of Marvel these days too - - it outshines all the other mutant titles. You have a wonderful way with these characters - and though back story isn't a strong element, it is clear from how they are written that you KNOW their back story and are consistent with it (within reason).
Less interested with the story of Singularity as time goes by, though. You are probably stuck there, with a good story but an obligation to keep up with the Civil War and Marvel continuity shenanigans before you can get to it.

Happy for your bowling wiz offspring as well (or was that last issue?)

Thanks for the great work!

NM

Peter, a related question: Did you write the X-Factor article for the 50-cent Daily Bugle Civil War issue? It "sounded" like you, especially with Guido's misleading the reporter on what powers "Multiple Man" had :) Thanks!

OK, PAD, as promised, I went back and read it with an open mind. But I'm sorry to say that I still can't figure out where you're going.

As I see, there's two possible endings. One is that the Ben that kills SM2112 is one of the Bens from the alley. Alley Ben mentions that for every choice that's made, another universe is made where the opposite choice is made. Thus, the "other" Ben is one who didn't make the choices that either "other" Ben made, or possibly even our Ben.

There's another thought in my head that maybe Professor Nyvan somehow is involved, but I can't seem to make that work. I doubt that retconning someone makes them live in another universe; if that's where you were going, then I'm really lost.
Sure, Nyven was the "stone" that set everything into motion, and SM2112 can't see the "stone" given the nature of what he does. But still...

See, any of these endings leads us with a story I don't like. Either way, we've ended up with a Ben Parker that murders a Spider-Man. I don't care what quantum physics says about the subject; it may be possible, but it sure isn't a good story.

I do hope you offer an explanation. And, again, it's not like I'm going to stop reading over one story that we disagree about. I've had a tough week; maybe I'm just missing something. If anything, you created a story that I cared enough about to reread to see if I missed something; maybe that's enough. Thanks again.

I loved X-Factor. I didn't like the art, but everything else was great. I liked the reaction to the X-men coming in. I liked their stance on the Registration act.

Layla's 'eventually we get married' line was fantastic. I didn't think anything could top that....and then I got to the HHGttG quote. I actually laughed out loud at that point.

I think this week's issue of X-Factor was one of my favorite things you've ever writtenI laughed like a goon for a good five minutes after the guy that could fly couldn't land.

FNSM was a little off to me, but I'll keep reading it as long as you keep writing it.

Oh and I finished the first arc of books for new Frontier on the plane to and from SDCC. Really quite good. I can't wait to pick up book 5

PAD

I have to say that I really loved the latest issue of FNSpidey!!! This Spidey title has someting that has been sorely lacking from comics (especially Marvel these day): heart. Yup, you heard me correctly. I don't mind it when a comic character cries . . . and by darn it, Spidey 2211 has cried in the last two issues! And why wouldn't he? The man had to choose between societal duty and familial duty. who can say what they would do when faced with a similar situation. And you know the best part? Spidey 2211 realized he has made mistakes. Wow!

I enjoy reading about flawed, human characters. Its refreshing and intriguing . . . all at the same time. Bravo PAD, bravo.

Speaking of flawed characters, I almost felt dirty reading Civil War #3. It just doesn't "feel" right, you know? I just don't see how comrades at arms could turn on each other so quickly. And I don't think that Spider-Man would ever raise a hand against Captain America. But in #3 he does . . . and acts like he enjoys it! Brrrrrr . . . .

PAD,

Rise to the occasion? Hmm. Ok, consider myself challenged and intrigued. I definitely missed the clues. But seeing as how I usually race through the comic (like someone drinking water after a long day in the desert), I am sure I missed something. I will reread it and look for the clues.

If what you hint is true, then I fully admit I owe you an apology for my other post. What really annoyed me about it was that it did *not* fit the character. That was not like you.

Other than the ending, I did like FNS. And you will note I did NOT threaten to quit reading the book after the ending. I was unsure enough with what was going on that I was going to stick around for a while to find out.

Concerning X-Factor, I particularly liked this issue. And Layla is a huge reason why. I don't know what it is, but X-Factor seems to bring out the best in you (or maybe I should say it brings out the style of writing I like best). Madrox is the other reason (in the current incarnation). While I may have some pretty strong convictions, that does not mean I don't wrestle with doubts or hear (figuratively) the voice of the other side in my head. I find it fascinating how the team looks to him for guidance and really expect it from him. He is respected by them and he doesn't get why.

Iowa Jim

Ok, it is 1 am and I just reread FSN.

The first time I read it, I got that there were two Bens, but didn't get what it meant. I didn't consider beyond that point.

The second time, I saw the "if he is the right man" line, but would never have thought about it if you had not given a clue.

Bottom line, as long as you did not turn kind Ben who put up with selfish Spidey into a murderer, I can live with it and will stick around to find out what I missed. If kind Ben is a murderer, I will stick around but will be less happy about it.

Iowa Jim

Story kicked ass. Art kicked ass. Comic kicked ass.

Ben-2 at the end didn't know that futureSpidey was from 2211 - he just introduced himself as Spider-Man of TOTEM (BAAAAD joke...) - so how could he know the year when saying "so, if it's okay with you Spider-Man of... 2211..."? Ergo, the "real" Ben from last issue was shot in the alley. That's the clue.

I have just read this comic book and must say, I would never have realized that the man Ben was talking to was another version of him. What I saw was Ben picking up the gun this man offerend him and committing suicide.

The last page mentioned that this female hobgoblin from the future never existed. Thinking about paradoxes gives me a headache but when her father said that he would set it right, I had no reason to doubt that he is capable of doing that.

Which means, what happened to the Ben in "our" reality will be erased, too. That made me wonder, what is the point of this story?

I guess, maybe, the point is that Peter should be grateful for the memories he has of Ben and move on. It is a touching message but I couldn`t help but wonder, too, hasn`t Peter been able to do that a long time ago?

Well, if I am wrong and this story was about one Ben killing the other one, I would be very disappointed. I find my version much more appealing.

Doug sez This issue of X-Factor raised something I've noticed about "Civil War": The two sides seem to be talking about different things.

And that's excatly the problem. The CW editor apparantly didn't bother to explain what the SHRA is about. Either that, or a bunch of writers are idiots.

Tom Brevoort has said it's only for people who want to be super-heroes. He or JoeQ said, for example, Doctor Strange...the most powerful guy on the planet, wouldn't need to register as he's a sorceror...not a super-hero. In which case, X-Factor wouldn't need to register..as they're detectives, not super-heroes. (For that matter, according to one of them, no one would approach X-Factor about registering, as all of the 198 mutants are defacto registered.)

Yet, PAD and other writers have written it that it's about registering anyone with powers. And the statement that all the mutants are in effect registered becasue of the 198 fallout, says that it is about meta powers, not about wanting to be a super-hero.

Look at the Daily Planet special..you have the 2 different things being argued on the same page.

If it was the two sides were focusing on two parts of the same law, it'd be one thing...but you have the pro side saying "Super heroes should be licenesed and trained!" and the anti side saying "Meta humans shouldn't have to register with the government to exist!" ---They're completely different things and they'd have to explain why She-Hulk, always shown as a liberal leaning lawyer would support people being labeled and registered...or say Why Thing, Sabra and Doc Samson, 3 of Marvel's 4 major Jewish characters are supporting registration, when Jews typicaly aren't for that kind of thing...it's never gone well for us in the past. (Of course, they'd also have to explain why Sabra, an Israeli government agent is even involved, but why bother with trivialities).

Why does Mr. Fantastic for it now but against it in the nineties?

Rivka,

I couldn't help but smile at your obvious excitement when your weekly comic fix comes in. 'Nice to know there are plenty of fangirls out there as well as fanboys.

"Doug sez This issue of X-Factor raised something I've noticed about "Civil War": The two sides seem to be talking about different things.

And that's excatly the problem. The CW editor apparantly didn't bother to explain what the SHRA is about. Either that, or a bunch of writers are idiots."

Two sides talking about two different things is entirely realistic. Almost every major political debate is like that. I don't think I've ever seen a debate about gay marriage where both sides were talking about the same thing.

Guys, look at the "Bens". When they meet in the alley the "shadow Ben" has a knit cap. The dead Ben has a ball cap that says "KAT". Add that to the "right man" comments and I believe that the shadow Ben killed his "nicer" counterpart and not the other way 'round.
But whether "KAT" is supposed to mean something I dunno. It's just clear that the shadow Ben was not immediately killed and simply left - else he would be a dead guy in a KNIT CAP.
I missed an issue so maybe I'm failing to get something, but that's what I'm seeing...

I reread it. Look at the man in the alley again. Its not Ben at all when you first look at him. He appears a bit younger and certainly thinner. Then it pans it while he has the newspaper covering his face.. Then he seems to look more like Ben. The guy in the alley is a shapechanger.. maybe the Chameleon (I don't know how he died) More likely, could it somehow be the Green Goblin's boyfriend from the previous issues? Although, it kinda looks like the burgler that killed Ben to begin with. (That part just came to me while writing this and now I'm sold on that explanation)

I'm sold on the Burgler theory now. How he looks like Ben.. no idea. But fitting he would go to that grave to see the man he killed. Don't know if the Chameleon would know where to go (but the good at blending in line would go to him)

I just need to go reread the past few issues again.

Eric

The Burgler died in ASM200. And how the hell would HE know TOTEM-Spider-Man was from 2211?

Don't know if this will get viewed or get to the right person, but I almost quit X-Factor because I totally missed it on the rack. The C. War cover that had Quick Silver's arm was terrible, and the new one wasn't much better. I know the powers that be think they need to make 1/2 the cover point out it's a crossover so it's not missed, but for those of us getting the book as usual it could be missed as well. I went back the next week and bought a copy but if it had sold out I was going to be done.

I really liked X-Factor, and more or less enjoyed FNS.

I have enjoyed the return of the X-Factor characters thoroughly. It's still got that trademark humor, but a new atmosphere. Great stuff!

FNS feels a little uneven, but I think that is due to an apparent effort to have it's own stories-while dealing with the issues going on in the rest of the Marvel world right now. I felt the latest issue laid some intriguing ground work for future issues, and am looking forward to seeing how it all plays out.

Ah, but this might be the burgler from the alternate timeline. Hobgoblin may have brought him too as a backup plan.

Friendly may be the worst you've ever written.

Went back and reread.. Peter didn't stop the Burgler in the timeline where Ben lived and May died.

Granted, the him looking like Ben blows this theory.

Two sides talking about two different things is entirely realistic. Almost every major political debate is like that. I don't think I've ever seen a debate about gay marriage where both sides were talking about the same thing.

Except in that case, both sides are talking about whether gay marriages should be allowed.

To use the analogy, the CW sides have one arguing whether homosexuals can get married, while the other is that homosexuals have to be registered with the government for existing.

Here's what we've all been missing, the secret that PAD alluded to:

The Ben Parker presented here is Keyser Soze.

'Nuff said.

So we're three days in, and no one's really sure about the Ben Parker scene.

One of the problems with the scene is how Wieringo frames the last set of panels. If you don't notice the cap (good catch, SlashKaBob), one might think that the Ben left in the alley is merely drunk and passed out, not dead. I'd rather have seen a high shot of the body in the alley, but that's nitpicking.

We're left with three conclusions, from everything I've read: Killer Ben is either Alternate Universe 2 Ben, Dr. Nyven (Hobgoblin 2112's boyfriend), or some other character like the Chameleon. I'm discounting the third conclusion out of the thought that it's really weak to sneak that in (though we did get a headline of "GREEN GOBLIN IS NORMAN OSBORN" in the previous issue). If that was the answer, we'd need another visual clue, and we don't get one.

The Dr. Nyven thing is possible, but for that to happen, Hobgoblin's Retcon bombs would prove to be somewhat ineffective, and I doubt that's what PAD is going for, either. Although, if that is the case, we now have a way of bringing her back if we want to.

So we're left with the conclusion that this is Alt Universe 2 Ben, one that differs strongly from the Alt Universe 1 Ben we've followed throughout the last 4 issues. And I've already noted my objection to that- I don't want to read any story where Ben Parker is a killer.

Either way, we're left with a random killing at the end by a character wearing the face of one of the key figures in the Spider-Man saga. That's not a good ending.

"Someone" got it. The first one to do so. "Uncle Ben" specifically addresses him as Spider-Man from 2211, but there's no way he could possibly have known that's where he came from.

PAD

But that doesn't tell us who he is; that just tells us who he's not. It could be alt-Ben Reilly, or (more likely) it's someone from the 2211 era who has the ability to look like Ben (he mentioned he blended in; wonder if the "Bad Wolf" grafitti meant anything?).

I don't think I've ever written this much about one story I didn't like. Weird. I've been reading comics for 30 years, and this one just resonated badly, PAD. I'm really emotionally angry, almost irrationally so, and I don't know why. I'm really sorry about it, because I take no joy from complaining about it. It's just under my skin. Sorry about that, really.

Think I'll catch up on X-Factor next. That'll put me in a better mood. :)

wonder if the "Bad Wolf" grafitti meant anything

That PAD really likes Dr. Who? :)

"Regarding X-Factor. I certainly hope Layla is pulling Madrox's chain. What is there -- 25 years difference in their ages? If she's not, Madrox should be locked up now before he has a chance to commit the crime."

Huh? More like 10-15 years. Just how old do you think Madrox is? But even if you were right, it would hardly be a crime to marry her.

Not sure if ages are explicitly stated anywhere, but I'm figuring Layla at about 10, and Madrox in his 30s.

It might be legal later on, but to marry someone you knew when they were a preteen, and you were significantly older, is, in my book, perverse. True, it's not a legal crime. But my opinion of anyone who does it isn't high. It's different when you didn't know them, as the image of them as a child wouldn't be stuck in your mind.

Didn't pick up FNSM yet, but X-Factor's resolution has me ask one question: Madrox got the Astonishing team to clear out, but what's to stop the New Avengers or even Hawkeye from hunting down Quicksilver? I'd assume Spider-Man still wants to beat Pietro up.....The "We'll tell about Wanda!" threat?

Didn't pick up FNSM yet, but X-Factor's resolution has me ask one question: Madrox got the Astonishing team to clear out, but what's to stop the New Avengers or even Hawkeye from hunting down Quicksilver? I'd assume Spider-Man still wants to beat Pietro up.....The "We'll tell about Wanda!" threat?

"Not sure if ages are explicitly stated anywhere, but I'm figuring Layla at about 10, and Madrox in his 30s."

I think Layla is older than that, like 14, and I believe Madrox is only in his mid-20s or so. Care to settle this, Peter?

"It might be legal later on, but to marry someone you knew when they were a preteen, and you were significantly older, is, in my book, perverse."

That seems like an odd judgment to make, but okay.

I'll second the opinion that Layla is closer to 13 or 14. She's certainly drawn older than 10, and the character is far too sophisticated to be any younger than 13.

On that note, mentally and maturity wise she's far beyond her physical age, and PAD has always written Jamie as immature for his age (which is around 25-27). I would believe some romantic sparks in a decade or so.

I am still not getting it. I am not getting what has happened, only that I was completely wrong and that one Ben indeed killed the other one.

Not only don`t I get who killed whom but more importantly, why and what does it matter?

At least I have the peace of mind to know that I am not too stupid to get it because, as I could see, the vast majority of the other readers don`t get it as well.

This is easily one of the worst comic stories I have read for a very long time, which is a shame because until the last issue, I found the story pretty intriguing.

The common consensus among other people I know that have read the issue seems to be The Chameleon...but that doesn't explain how "Ben" knew that Spider-Man was from 2211. So...what are the chances of there being an alternate Hobgoblin 2211? One that has shapeshifting or holographic technology good enough to look like Uncle Ben?

Or, a little more fully developed, what if Spider-Man 2211's attempt to fix the "retcon bombing" of his daughter led to an alternate version of her killing Uncle Ben and impersonating him just to get close enough to kill "future Spidey"? You know, 'cause fixing a paradox to create another one is kinda cool.

I'd also be willing to accept the "2nd alternate Ben" theory...or the "Dr. Nyven" theory...

I have to admit I'm not quite "getting" it either, but that's half the fun of stuff like this: it's setting up future storylines. I don't want everything explained to me just yet--I assume (and we all know what happens when I do that) that PAD still has some Unca Ben elements up his sleeve and we'll see more of his storyline later on. Until then I'm content to scratch my head, go "huh?", and wait for the next few issues. It's a puzzlement, a puzzlement indeed, but PAD seems to have a plan for where it's going and I'm intrigued enough to want to find out. Having everything spelled out for me takes the fun and suspense out of it.

I reread FNSM last night and reread the posts concerning the dialogue. I too picked up on the "blend" in and the "of 2211" parts and concluded that it's Chamelon 2211. I'd rather it be an alternate reality Ben, but that's my guess.

Are you aware that PAD wrote the first X-Factor book that you are so fond of? He left after issue #89- one of the editorial requests that Peter did not agree with was the death of Multiple Man. The Jamie he writes now is very consistent with the Jamie he wrote back then- he has just had more time to explore the character.
Yes, I know he wrote it. If this MM is the same just more examined, I'll write it up to me not remembering very well.

Well, if Spider-man can survive a HORRIBLE plot twist like Gwen Stacy having sex with Norman Osborn, then it can survive a horrible "EVIL" Uncle Ben plot twist.

"Well, if Spider-man can survive a HORRIBLE plot twist like Gwen Stacy having sex with Norman Osborn"

Ever take a look at post-Sins Past circ #s on ASM? The book lost a LOT of readers from that stunt.

Ah well. Finished catching up with X-Factor last night. That's a fine comic. Great writing, good art, love the colors.

I find it a bit incredulous that people would have such a extreme reaction to this story, it doesn't reflect badly on Ben at all, because it isn't Ben - not the Ben we know at least. So what's the problem?

I also saw straight away that the ending was unclear on which Ben it was who shot Spidey 2211; that's what stories do, set up future stories to explore the ramifications and set up a bitof a mystery. What's wrong with that?! Do we need everything spelt out to us nowadays??!

I realised that the man in the alley was another Ben straight away, so I wonder why others didn't? I think some people are reading their comics too fast! The only thing I din't quite get was......I thought it was a visual clue that it must have been the Ben from the alley that did the murder and not nice Ben because nice Ben wasn't wearing a hat when they met in the alley - but without checking again what confused me was that it was a completely different hat at the end of the issue!

Mistake on Mike's part or is there a 3rd Ben?!

Please tell peter!

what's to stop . . . Hawkeye from hunting down Quicksilver?

You mean other than him being dead?

ON ANOTHER TOPIC ENTIRELY, PAD:

In the latest Who's Who In the DCU column at Comic Nexus/Inside Pulse, the question was posed what were DC's 5 worst mistakes in the past 10 years.

All of them involve DC screwing you.
http://comicsnexus.insidepulse.com/articles/50002

(1) Axeing YJ, 2) Forcing you off Aquaman 3) Axing SGirl 4) The New SGirl 5) Axing Fallen Angel (and a bonus 6 of Dissing SloBo).

what's to stop . . . Hawkeye from hunting down Quicksilver?

You mean other than him being dead?

Hawkeye lives, dammit! He's just merely resting.

1I loved the twisted ending in Spidy. I've got to admit, I didn't see that one coming. I loved Maddrox's stand on X-Factor. Peter has made him a brave and complexe character and made a sound aurgument against hero registration.

>Jamie as immature for his age (which is around 25-27)

There have been several references in the Marvel Universe that approximately ten years have passed since its creation. If true, then given the fact that madrox first appeared relatively early on (over thirty real years ago) then one can reasonably extrapolate that he's at least seven or eight years older than he was back then. Question being how old did he seem to be when first confronting the FF?

I think one of the problems here is that, while there used to be two, maybe three Spidey strips, there are now at least five, and at least two if not three different universes for them to be set in. This makes keeping track of subtle plot elements more complicated.

There have been several references in the Marvel Universe that approximately ten years have passed since its creation.

How recently, though? I remember references to it having been ten years since the FF was founded back in the mid-to-late '80s. It's possible that they haven't slid the scale any further than that (I remember when Chris Claremont showed Kitty Pryde's 15th birthday in "Excalibur" several years after he'd established her as being 15 in "X-Men", to give one example); I'm just curious what they're claiming nowadays.

"I'm just curious what they're claiming nowadays."

It depends on the writer, and the individual characters. Young Avengers apparently claims that it's been 16 years since the Kree-Skrull War (when Hulkling was conceived... although, come to think of it, Kree-Skrull hybrids could age differently than humans). Runaways had a now-adult Julie Powers, which means it's been at least seven years since Power Pack for her (figuring she was about 11 or so in that series). And geez, how old is Kitty Pryde now? She was like 13 when she first appeared, and now she's old enough to have dated Pete Wisdom and been an agent of SHIELD. Then there's Franklin Richards, who never ages.

So, yeah, best not to dwell on the time thing too much when it comes to the Marvel Universe. I just tend to think of it has having been roughly 15 years since FF #1, and leave it at that.

Two things with Franklin I'm making sure to always remember:

1. He doesn't let himself age.

2. He doesn't let anyone else notice that he isn't aging "properly" compared to the likes of Mr. Parker, Power Pack or Kitty Pryde...

Keep these two things in mind, and all will be reasonably well in continuity matters.

I told my wife about retcon bombs.

(Kate's not a comics fan, but, having been married to me for some years, she's familiar with a lot of the furniture.)

As soon as i said the words "retcon bomb", Kate announced that you were a Bad Man.

Dan Slott came up with some sort of retcon gun/thingy in the oversized 100th issue of She-Hulk. I think it's a case of "great minds."

X-Factor #9 was great!! I really like the overall feel/atmosphere of the book and the characters are great. I can't wait to see how the rivalry between Layla and Quicksilver develops!

I also noticed that there was a nice Layla Miller profile in the latest Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe (issue #7). I'm curious if the writers such as yourself get consulted on the OHOTMU profiles at all, Mr. David?

Question being how old did he seem to be when first confronting the FF?

He was in his late teens. After the professor took him in he went to live with Moira McTaggart, where he and Syrin, who was also in her late teens, lived together until their early 20's, when the respectively split off into X-Factor and X-Force.

Friendly may be the worst you've ever written.

I must say, the reaction to this whole story is rather interesting. While I was upset and disappointed when I thought "nice Ben" murdered someone, I never thought it was a bad story. I have never liked Fallen Angel but I would never say it was poorly written. I definitely did not like "Sins of the Father" by JMS but have kept reading Amazing Spidey.

While it is possible one story line could cause me to never read PAD again, it would have to be really out there, and this ain't it. When you read an author for more than 15 years, you tend to average it out. I find the current X-Factor is some of his best work. FNS has not been quite as good as my other favorite, Spidey 2099, but it has also been interesting. And this story line has been refreshingly interesting. I am disappointed that we are moving to something else (at least as the major focus -- I am sure there are elements of this that will obviously continue).

Bottom line, I may have hated the ending (as I originally understood it), but I was going to be back next month to find out what was going on. I would hope the rest of you do the same and at least see where this is headed.

Iowa Jim

"Someone" got it. The first one to do so. "Uncle Ben" specifically addresses him as Spider-Man from 2211, but there's no way he could possibly have known that's where he came from.

PAD,

I did notice that as well in my second reading, but it did not stand out as much to me. For some reason, I thought he *did* know.

This is the "problem" with a monthly title. I think this would have stood out if I had read all of the issues in one sitting. But my mind simply filled in the blank thinking the Hobgoblin of 2211 told him this info.

Now that I think about it, I don't know that Ben every met Spidey 2211 until the graveyard scene, so the clue was in there, and it was a good one. But it was not perhaps as obvious to some of us who buy the monthly and don't wait for the trade version.

Iowa Jim

PAD,

As much as I love your work PAD, I think I'm going to have to drop FNSM. Partly for budget reasons, but I just can't seem to get into it. I'm not a big fan of solo books to begin with (Linda Danvers/Supergirl and Captain
Marvel being the exception), but with Spider-Man, I think maybe your a little too shackled in what you can do with him and the main supporting cast. I mean, it's not like you can have Mary Jane have an affair with Moondragon on a whim.

I still love X-Factor, and it's my favorite title right now. Keep up the good work!

"Dan Slott came up with some sort of retcon gun/thingy in the oversized 100th issue of She-Hulk. I think it's a case of "great minds."

Well, considering that I first introduced retcon bombs back in "Spider-Man 2099 Meets Spider-Man", a one shot published more than a decade ago--which was not only well before She-Hulk #100, but well before Dan Slott was writing comics--I have to think it was one great mind thinking like another great mind already had been.

PAD

Well, considering that I first introduced retcon bombs back in "Spider-Man 2099 Meets Spider-Man", a one shot published more than a decade ago--which was not only well before She-Hulk #100, but well before Dan Slott was writing comics--I have to think it was one great mind thinking like another great mind already had been.

Darn. I might have remembered that if I'd known what "retcon" was at the time. Boo on me.

First off: very good issues! I especially enjoyed X-Factor - the " 'Cause we eventually get married" had me laughing out loud! I can't say how shocked I would have been by the end of FN,as I had that spoiled for me; but we do have an interesting mystery. I can say that it seemed pretty obvious to me that this might not really be Uncle Ben doing the killing. OTOH, while I did notice the "Spider-Man of 2211" incongruity, I was dumb enough to briefly wonder if it was a mistake; well, I certainly know better now ;)

Having now read this thread, learning about the questions, and looking back at the last two issues, I think I may have found the dangling plot thread from issue #9. (I remember wondering about it at the time; took a couple of flip-throughs today to remind me today, though. Oddly, as it is a big question...) Does it involve "her... 'new friends'"?

I did also wonder if it could have been the Chameleon... who may not be as dead as FNS-M #10 letter-writer Joel Roddin thinks. Apparently he missed the little bit on page 10 of Spectacular Spider-Man #250, in the establishing panel of the emergency room...

All this missed clue stuff reminds me of Incredible Hulk #333. Is it really possible that that many people didn't notice that General Ross' body wasn't in the suddenly "empty gurney"? (The editors later remarked that no one wrote in about it.) If my brother and I had known at the time, WE probably would have written in to point it out! It's funny how we can all sometimes miss these things...

I think my favorite moment from X-Factor was when Layla told Jamie to buy a hat and scarf... and he actually does it! I think other characters would have just said, "Yeah, whatever," and forgotten about it.

Jamie and Layla are actually a good dynamic. One can't make decisions for himself and the other likes to guide people toward the correct path. I especially like how Layla's abilities do not preclude free will. She didn't tell Jamie what to think, and did not even tell him what to do. She just pointed him in a direction and he chose to go there. (This is also evident in her attempt to "hire" a goon to mess with Quicksilver. Things didn't go according to plan then, either.)

You know, after seeing some Callero black and whites I gotta say, I dig his work. I think it's the color I have a problem with. I get the tone of the book, I do, but the color is just so flat and dreary and destroys any sense of depth.

Scott,

I'm not sure I would be willing to agree with the statement that Layla's abilities do not preclude Free Will. It looks to me like Layla's abilities work kinda like those elaborate mechanical "mousetrap" devices that some people build or one of those massive domino setups. Remove the bath handles --> cause a flood --> floor collapse --> assassin electrocuted.

From the POV of people who can't see things the way Layla can, they still have their free will. However, from Layla's POV if she takes Apparently-Insignificant-Action A, then it's dead certain the Serendipitous(sp?)-Result Z will take place. The fact that the people invovled can't see the forces controlling their actions doesn't make them any more free than any individual domino in one of those elaborate set-ups.

This is all just my conclusions based on what I've seen so far, but I think the Layla KNEW that Maddrox would buy that hat & scarf and go to that corner if she told him to. I think she KNEW that he'd meet that meta and decide to help him because, being Maddrox, he couldn't do anything else in that situation. What I'm trying to say is that the way I see the situation is that Layla appears to KNOW how most of the world will react to various sets of circumstances and she KNOWS how to change things to bring about those circumstances. From her POV, she and Pietro & Wanda (apparently) may be the ONLY people on Earth with free will, because everybody else's actions are pre-defined.

David,

I like the mousetrap analogy, but I think in Layla's case it's more like a game of dominoes. She sets them up, but she doesn't have the power to knock them down. She has to persuade other people to do that. And that's the x-factor.

I don't think she always knows what's going to happen. More like she knows what needs to happen, what is extremely likely to happen. When she tried to stop Quicksilver in issue 8, she failed. If she knew she was going to fail, why would she have tried? Fact is, she can't control everything and she doesn't know everything. But she does know "stuff."

Scott,

I suspect the truth is somewhere between our stated positions. Your discription of Layla's knowing what needs to happen for things to "go the right way" does match my memory of her explanation to Maddrox now that I think about it. However, I'm sure that Layla does have the ability to "knock down the dominos." Think of the bathtub/electrocution incident. She set up events so that the assassin would walk right into a deathtrap.

As to Quicksilver, she didn't succeed in her plans to kill him, but did you notice how much that shocked her? She was absolutely certain that knocking that guy on the head would set a chain of events in motion that would end in Quicksilver's death. The only thing that saved QS was his connection to his sister. Something about this made him beyond Layla's abiltiy to perfectly predict. He didn't do what she thought he would do, and evaded her trap.

This is why I said that the only other people that might have free will from Layla's POV could be Pietro and Wanda...because they're the ones who she can't predict.

Just my two cents.