Which may be interrupted from time to time as I look in on the Mets game, which they are currently losing 3-0 to the frackin' Fish.
Commentary below the cutline.
I'm watching on PBS.
Jim Lehrer looks like a shark.
9:02: Foreign policy my butt. You can probably clock with an eggtimer how long it takes to get to the economy.
I'll be curious to see how long the "audience will remain silent" pledge holds up.
9:03: Okay, who had thirty seconds in the pool for the economy.
9:04: Stop stringing sentences together with "and." It's starting to bug me.
9:05: None of the money is going to me? Oh, wait...to pad bank accounts. Got it. Sorry.
9:06: The difference between McCain and Obama quickly becomes clear. Obama endeavors to appeal to the head. McCain on the other hand endeavors to appeal to emotions. Neither of them really responded directly about the recovery plan. But Lehrer is now pushing them on it.
9:09: Obama's trying to say basically, "I saw this coming." I'm not sure anyone cares at this point how we got to this point; they seem more interested in solving where we are now.
9:10: "A lot of us saw this train wreck coming?" WTF? What happened to the economy being sound?
9:11: Neither of them is hitting this one out of the park.
9:12: Obama keeps pushing the Wall Street/Main Street paradigm. Okay, we get it. It's a good sound bite. Move on. I love Lehrer trying to get the two of them talking, making it a genuine debate rather than an organized press conference.
9:13: OH COME ON! Bad enough that McCain grabbed the "change" theme. Now he makes a naked grab for the Main street/Wall street thing? It's not even all that clever! Come up with your own sound bites!
9:14: That's not an answer to the question. Talk about the differences, if there are any.
9:15: He's still not answering it. Screw the bears thing in Montana. Obama, go after him. Answer the question.
9:16: Okay, he finally got around to it.
9:17 Obama goes after the tax cuts. McCain will instantly say that Obama wants to raise taxes.
9:18: There you go
9:19: What I would love is for Obama to say, rather than, "I don't know where John is getting those figures," look straight at him and say, "Are you pulling those numbers out of your ass?" But that's probably just me.
9:21: Crap. The Mets only got one run and promptly gave it back. 4-1.
9:21: $500 to buy Health care? Is he insane?!?!?
9:22: Obama should pounce on the health care thing. "John, how out of touch are you that you think $500 is going to buy health care?"
9:23: Oh, he said $5000. I misheard. But even $5000 isn't going to do it oftentimes.
9:24: Here's what I'm wondering: If McCain has been fighting pork barrel spending for two decades, then how come there's still so much of it?
9:27: They still aren't close to having bio-diesel as any sort of reasonable alternative. Still, notice that Obama is trying to turn a question with negatives--"What are you going to cut?"--into a positive--"Here's what I'm going to do." If you don't like the question, reword it to your advantage.
9:30: McCain had nothing to do with that. There was a lawsuit involved in the Boeing thing.
9:31: Lehrer isn't letting them slide. He noticed they both tried to reverse the question. They've got to start moving away from their talking points and respond directly; Lehrer isn't going to let them get away with it.
9:32: Obama talks about saving money by drawing down in Iraq. Smooth.
9:34: And we continue to play out the West Wing scenario. In the TV show debate, the McCain proxy, Arnold Vinick, talked up nuclear energy. Then when a nuclear power plant suddenly came close to melting down, Vinick took a huge hit. McCain just talked up nuclear power. If you're living near a nuclear power plant, I'd watch your back.
9:36: But the decisions in health care aren't up to the family and doctors as it now stands. Doctors oftentimes have to judge whether they can give tests, for instance, based upon whether insurance companies will approve them.
9:37: "I have fought against spending my entire career." And look where we are. Nice job.
9:38: Enough with the Miss Congeniality. Although, in his defense, maybe he forgot it. And yes, the American people DO know him. That's why they're stunned to see the change in him from 2000.
9:39: What's the failed strategy? "Never get involved in a land war in Asia." Didn't he see "The Princess Bride?" If Obama doesn't knock this one out of the park, something's wrong.
9:41: Good answer by Obama.
9:43: Obama sure loves those sports metaphors.
9:45: Obama has a point. If McCain's going to argue that Obama was wrong about the surge, then Obama can point out that McCain was wrong about lots more.
9:46: Body blow with the "Obama doesn't know different between strategy and tactic."
9:47: Good response from Obama regarding the oft-repeated "Obama wanted to cut troop funding."
9:49; I find it interesting that McCain always calls him "Senator Obama" whereas Obama calls him "John."
9:50: Okay, OBama, get specific.
9:51: Obama is the first to mention 9/11, but at least he merely did it to set a historical perspective rather than as a scare tactic.
9:52: DAMMIT. 5-1 Marlins.
9:54: That's what we've been TRYING to do, getting the Pakistanis to go in. It hasn't been working.
9:55: Every time they say "Taliban," it sounds like "Tally Man" from the Banana Boat song.
9:56: Oooo, uppercut from Obama about McCain's notorious warhawk attitudes being at odds with what he's saying now.
9:57: Basically we've got dueling patronizing attitudes: Obama's calling him "John" as opposed to McCain's saying again and again, "What senator Obama doesn't understand."
9:59: He has plenty of records; he hasn't heard of CDs or iPods.
9:59: McCain continues to appeal to emotions. Anecdotes, personal commentaries, things people said to him. An effective tactic.
10:00 Ooooo! Dueling bracelets! Who would have thought that the presidency might come down to who has the better bling.
10:02: I find it interesting that McCain feels overseas visits are so pivotal when his choice for vice-president is so woefully lacking in that department whereas Obama's is rock solid.
10:04: Ah yes. The League of Democracies. The club that just about everyone considers to be a spectacularly bad idea.
10:05: Obama's not letting McCain get away with a lot of distortions.
10:07: He's not calling him "John" anymore.
10:07: Now we're getting to a fundamental difference between Obama and McCain: Talking to those whom we dislike.
10:08: Yes, but we've been insisting for years that Israel should sit down with people who are advocating their extermination in order to find peace.
10:09: OOO! Body blow regarding Kissinger!
10:10: Mistake. Never mention negative things that opposition have said about you. All people remember is "Obama=Naive."
10:12: McCain takes a shot at the Obama seal silliness.
10:13: Naked attempt to get the Jewish vote. Plus that's, what, the fifth time he said that Obama doesn't understand something?
10:14: Wait: Three inches taller? What's that have to do with anything? Should we be comparing penis size as well?
10:15: Obama should have come back stronger when McCain was bullying forward.
10:18: Sorry. bathroom break.
10:19: He keeps trying to hammer away at Obama as being naive, unknowledgable, etc. It's amazing he can continue to take that approach with the far more callow Palin as his running mate.
10:22: I don't think they're particularly far apart on Georgia, despite McCain's attempts to make it seem as if they are.
10:24: Obama goes a long way to bring it back to energy.
10:24: BUGGER! 6-1 Marlins.
10:25: Obama keeps letting McCain talk over him.
10:27: If I remember correctly, McCain has just left himself vulnerable on the torture issue.
10:28: Actually I think the biggest threat is germ warfare, but that could just be me.
10:29: He's made the point about Afghanistan already. Several times.
10:30: Except if I'm recalling correctly, McCain has voted FOR laws that make torture okay. And hey, big surprise, McCain just said Obama didn't understand something. Considering that Obama's now calling him Senator, I think McCain wins the patronizing-off.
10:32: I wish that Obama would say what McCain doesn't understand.
10:33: Good summarizing by Obama. And, oh my God, how dare McCain, who chose Palin, continue to claim that Obama doesn't have experience.
10:35: Obama finally goes for the personal approach.
10:36: Major restraint: McCain waited until the very end to mention he was in prison.
10:37: Ultimately, I don't think either of them scored a knock-out blow.
Posted by Peter David at September 26, 2008 08:56 PM | TrackBack | Other blogs commentingNot much waivering in John's voice for someone who has no idea what to say.
I'm sorry, what?! You saw this train wreck coming, and you did NOTHING to stop it? What the hell kind of leadership is that?
I think this format blows. I guess I don't need five minutes after each question to listen to them rattle off. Give them two minutes to answer each question and then move on.
Anyone want to play the "Wall Street/Main Street" Drinking Game?
Obama's working the 2 Americas theme, Wall vs Main Street. McCain adopting it himself gives Obama the lead.
OK, everytime one of them says "fundamental" everyone take a drink
Pat, I was just about to suggest the same thing. It's like "fundamental" is the new "change." I wonder how much of a verbal tic it will remain throughout this hour.
"Are you pulling those numbers out of your ass?"
I would love that. Note said snidely, but on honest moment of just WTF?
Hmmmm, McCain isn't wearing a flag pin. Does that mean he's unpatriotic?
(yes, I'm being sarcastic)
I don't agree it's a good idea for Obama to go for a kill out of the gate. He's polling 90 points ahead electorally. McCain will be vulnerable when HE goes for a kill, and Obama can afford to wait for it.
John "I have no plan" McCain, sounds like a desperate man at this point.
I will ALWAYS trust the market over the federal government. There is no better way to corrupt Wall Street further and run this economy into the ground further than by giving the government more regulatory power.
Minor point, but didn't anyone tell McCain not to wear a striped tie that would vibrate on TV? Anthor incompetence amongst his staff?
When JM smiles he looks like a Robot Chicken character.
9:29pm What does cutting spending have to do with Obama having the "most liberal voting record in the Senate"?
I will ALWAYS trust the market over the federal government. There is no better way to corrupt Wall Street further and run this economy into the ground further than by giving the government more regulatory power.
Yeah, it's a wonder anyone is talking about a bailout.
You want to save the taxpayers money? How about getting our military out of the 130 countries they now have a presence in.
Cut the ethanol subsidy....I agree with cutting it, but McCain officially just lost Iowa.
Interesting that Senator McCain refers to his opponent as "Senator Obama," and Senator Obama refers to his opponent as "John." I honestly don't know which is the better strategy....
This was my comment earlier on how this would play:
Obama will struggle to phrase complicated issues in simple sound bites, while McCain will steadfastly deliver lies.
glad to see I was right.
Spending freeze!
Wow, Obama can't handle that idea.
Underfunded!!! There is NOTHING underfunded! Liberals just want the payouts to go UP each year. Lets keep spending at current levels for a while.
Obama would cry.
Thats right John!
Keep the health care out of the government's hands. Socialism isn't the answer.
Again, Obama flips out each time spending restraint is brought up.
Government spending during hard times is a conventional wisdom in economic circles.
That line tying McCain to Bush was the first thing Obama said that I think really scored a hit.
! Obama called John "Jim". I wonder if McCain's supporters are going to focus on that.
Wait, he wasn't elected Miss Congeliality?
And McCain mispronounces Guantanomo.
McCain =/= Maverick.
...just as is taxing and reducing debt during good times.
"I opposed the President on torture" before I was for it.
Gods!
Oh, and he just called himself Maverick. Drink!
9:36 Again with McCain and cutting spending and criticizing Obama for his earmarks. Never mind that every administration since WWII, Dem and Repub, has expanded government, and our current debt was created by Bush and the war.
9:37 Aha! Obama made that exact point! And he points out that McCain voted for all those Bush budgets! Good for you, Barack.
9:38 Again with McCain's Miss Congeniality soundbite. Yeah, disagreed with Bush on torture. But that has nothing to do with Obama's point on the budget. You have a running mate who's a maverick? Is that an admission that you yourself are not one anymore?
"Fundamental" difference on Iraq. Take a drink.
The next president IS going to have decide if we go into Iran. If Obama misses that one...
Oh hell yeah. Hammer him on Iraq. Do not let up.
Obama needs to address what "winning" actually means in terms of the Iraq war.
Obama should start referring to lies. Start with an offhand "I'm sure John didn't mean to lie and just misspoke ther but.." and build on it. By the end, he could be "Well, there you're lying again, John."
When Obama gives lessons on tactics vs strategy, McCain will take it and like it.
9:49; I find it interesting that McCain always calls him "Senator Obama" whereas Obama calls him "John."
Well Barack doesn't sound like osama does it.
9:54 McCain says that Obama wants in Afghanistan what he criticized in Iraq. Um, yeah, John. That's because he thinks we don't belong in Iraq. The same doesn't hold for Afghanistan.
Peter David: 9:38: Enough with the Miss Congeniality.
Luigi Novi: Yeah, I wish I were there. Senator McCain, I met Sandra Bullock (twice). I worked with Sandra Bullock. You, sir, are no Sandra Bullock.
You all heard that Vietnam reference he just made? I've been saying this for the longest time. This is why he's taking this hard-headed stance on Iraq. He's reliving the emotional body blow of learning that he and his fellow servicemen sacrificed for nothing in Vietnam and he's determined to redeem that with Iraq by proving that they can "win" there.
If each of their bracelets were photonic, would they be able to summon Captain Mar-Vell?
Look at how much McClain blinks when he starts saying things he doesn't believe.
Who would have thought that the presidency might come down to who has the better bling.
What's the surprise. It's come down to who you'd prefer to get drunk with before.
10:00 Ooooo! Dueling bracelets! Who would have thought that the presidency might come down to who has the better bling.
This made me snarf my iced tea....
Just switched over from local CBS to CNN. I like how CNN shows the current question on the screen. So that's what they are supposed to be answering.
Obama keeps describing things and then saying "Now, here's what we have to do..."
Nice approach.
10:07 Obama, in discussing Iran, says, "Ironically". Was he trying to make a pun? Did he mean to say, "Iran-cally"?
pointed out on another blog: notice who is and who isn't wearing a "flag pin" now...
Well, actually Russia IS a democracy. And so is Georgia. Which puts paid to the theory that we should forcibly convert every country in the world to a democratic system because democracies don't fight each other...
Heh, can anyone imagine Bush attempting all those Russian leader names...
Senator Obama is way too smart and assured and on the appealing side of so many issues to be this utterly unremarkable in debates. Sharpening the economic message and the Senator's ability to deliver it in a way that is forward-thinking doesn't sound like politics as usual should have been the main business of the campaign for weeks and weeks now. They're blowing if not outright blown a huge opportunity.
Compare Senator Obama on the economy tonight with even something as offhanded yet clear and forceful and plain-spoken as Bill Clinton's three minutes on how the government made money in the 1930s and how a president must look to the best future with every tough decision on his recent Daily Show stop. There's no comparison, and Senator Obama is just as smart and quick on his feet as the ex-President, so there's also no excuse.
This really should have been a bigger priority, the only priority.
Sean, I'm watching CNN, and I don't see that. Are they only flashing it intermittently? (I am multitasking.)
"Senator McCain knows it. That is a misrepresentation of my position."
should be
"Senator McCain knows it. He's lying again about my position."
Calling a spade a spade and all that.
"Wait: Three inches taller? What's that have to do with anything?"
It's a reference to decades of malnutrition in NK while the nation's economy has been directed towards fueling the military.
Sean, I'm watching CNN, and I don't see that. Are they only flashing it intermittently? (I am multitasking.)
My bad. I'm watching C-Span, not CNN. And it isn't on at this moment, but it was for several minutes.
The only thing we know for sure about this debate: the left will declare Obama the winner, the right will declare McCain the winner.
Late to the party here…
I'm doing this via XM Radio so I can't see the thing, but is McCain displaying any visual ticks when he’s telling a lie that he himself likely knows to be a lie? I only ask because his voice seems to get a little… different sounding… when he’s saying things that are complete BS rather than just political spin.
I'm wondering if Obama sees his position as similar to Bush in the debates against Gore, and whether that isn't right. With Bush, expectations were low, so he just had to pass. With Obama, he's ahead in the electoral polling, so he also has to stay steady, and wait for McCain to relax and provide an opening. That seems to make sense.
10:20 Again McCain with the "what he doesn't understand.." bullshit. Now he's trying to assert that Obama doesn't know that Russia has engaged in aggression in Georgia? How does he figure this?
unfortunately,while Obama is a great speaker, but has been known to be a less-than-stellar debater in the past
He keeps trying to hammer away at Obama as being naive, unknowledgable, etc. It's amazing he can continue to take that approach with the far more callow Palin as his running mate.
Ah, well maybe the campaign is prepping to make its kill in the VP debate. If Biden can serve a little "what Sarah doesn't understand" condescension, then it paints McCain as inconsistent, and not even in his own debate.
Obama is a bit afraid to overpower McCain with his voice.
Jim Lehrer goes 9/11! McCain's gonna ride that one for all it's worth.
Obama is a bit afraid to overpower McCain with his voice.
It's been said that he's worried about being portrayed as an angry black man.
Quick, bigger choke: U.S. Economy or the Mets?
Good for Obama to drive home that McCain admitted the US engaged in torture!
See that bit about the sacrifice in Iraq? It's the Vietnam thing again. It's a heartfelt position, if misguided. I do feel for him on this, even though he's completely wrong and we can't allow his trauma to take us off a cliff.
10:28: Actually I think the biggest threat is germ warfare, but that could just be me.
Total agreement here. The panic that anthrax in the mail caused was only the tip of the iceberg.
WOW! He slams Bush and ties Obama to him in the same sentence. It will be fascinating to see how that goes over.
After 8 years of listening to George Bush and his horrific pronunciations and tendency to sound like a cartoon character (which most people pounce on), I find it amazing no one ever mentions (not talking about here, I mean in general) that Obama sounds like Porky Pig half the time.
L-l-l-l-lets talk about... Uhhh-uu---uhhhh.
I sometimes feel embarrassed for him and want to hand him the teleprompter just to help him get the words out.
Hmm. Obama seemed rattled and unprepared for McCain's pretty effective contrast in their experience. Not a good finish for Obama.
L-l-l-l-lets talk about... Uhhh-uu---uhhhh.
Actually, I was listening for Obama's "uhs" and "ums" -- and he wasn't providing them. You're wrong.
"Hmm. Obama seemed rattled and unprepared for McCain's pretty effective contrast in their experience. Not a good finish for Obama."
Can't see how he could have been though. It's been one of the big things against him.
I give it to Obama on points, but there were no knockdowns.
Obama did what he had to do, which is look presidential. McCain did what he had to do, which is not blow his stack - although he was getting close on the Iran issue.
I don't think the polls are going to move very much - Obama may pick up a point or two.
Tie. No major gaffes, no major slams (unless you count the "seal" comment).
Y'know, contrary to Craig's prediction, even with me being left of center, I'm gonna have to give this narrowly to McCain. Obama's shots were too scattered. He had some good hits, but he needs prepare and focus more on the areas where he can really hit McCain hard.
Line of the night, the next president will need to view foreign policy in the broad sense instead of through the narrow lens of Iraq.
Followed closely by the comment about how no nation whose economy faltered has been able to continue to project their military presence across the globe and the economy now is becoming a national security issue.
A lot of jabs here, but there was no KO that I heard. I can't see anyone getting much for campaign ads based on anything said by either of them here.
"Government spending during hard times is a conventional wisdom in economic circles."
Are you a politician?
"Can't see how he could have been though. It's been one of the big things against him."
Obama should have come back with an attack about how McCain's decades in Washington didn't help him foresee how destructive this war and Republican economic policies have been on the country. When someone punches you, you punch back. If you don't, the American people aren't going to see you as fit to lead.
I think a lot is going to be made of Obama's facial expressions.
Surprise, Surprise I think McCain took this one but only because of the topic. Foreign policy, I think is McCain's strongest attribute and Obama's weakest. We have four more of these.
I know what he should have done, Matt. I'm just amazed that he seemed like he had no idea that McCain would go there and didn't respond the way he could have.
Oh ok, thought you meant you couldn't see how he could have been prepared...
I have to admit I think the debate goes to McCain, by virtue of Obama passing on the opportunities to fight McCain.
But I don't know if that isn't just Obama treating the debate as a dead-end tactic in his overall strategy. The Art of War says you should relax when you're high and dry, and hustle when you're slogging through marshes.
Government spending during hard times is a conventional wisdom in economic circles.Are you a politician?
That's a principle established by an economist Reagan expressed admiration for. I think his name was Keynes.
James Tichy, I think Mike referred to Keynesian economics.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynes
[John Maynard Keynes] advocated interventionist government policy, by which the government would use fiscal and monetary measures to mitigate the adverse effects of economic recessions, depressions and booms. He is one of the fathers of modern theoretical macroeconomics.
And by macroeconomics, they mean national and regional economic theory.
Looks like the Washington Post Fact-Checker blog was doing some live coverage of the debate. (But it appears that FactCheck.org backed out of their promise of live "wire" coverage at the last minute.)
Did Sarah Palin use a crib sheet during her Katie Couric interview, from 2:20 - 2:40 in the clip seen at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2kjFn4s4sU , she looks down at her lap when answering Couric's question, in a way that was so obvious, I can't imagine that it was made a secret from Couric. What was up with that?
Government spending during hard times is a conventional wisdom in economic circles.
Yeah, but the flip side of that is that during good times, the government is supposed to cut back spending and recoup all the deficit spending it engaged in during the recession. That part never seems to happen quite on schedule...
Yeah, because Bush insisted on squandering Clinton's budget-surplus on tax-cuts for the wealthy and borrowing.
I don't think this debate will change anyone's opinions. No one either said anything controversial (or, for that matter, new) or committed any astonishing blunders. They basically repeated their own talking points on the campaign trail in a live commercial, with their opponent a few feet away. Ehh.
Yeah, because Bush insisted on squandering Clinton's budget-surplus on tax-cuts for the wealthy and borrowing.
Now, see, I make a perfectly neutral comment about general tendencies of governments (which is why I'm not a Keynesian no matter who's in the White House), and you go for a partisan shot.
Incidentally, the US national debt hasn't been paid in full since 1835. The 10 year surplus of the Roaring 20s didn't even make up for the 1919 deficit. Since Bush wasn't born until 1946, it kind of makes it hard for you to blame all the world's ills on the current Administration, but I have faith in you.
And in the "two can play at that game" department, Clinton was in office 8 years. The budget ran a surplus for 2 of them. All four years that the budget has been balanced in my lifetime were under a Republican House, at least 3 years of it with a Republican Senate as well. (Probably all four; I assume FY 2001 was approved by the Congress that ended in 2000.) During the 40-year Democratic House majority (1954-1994 elections) the budget was balanced 4 times, with an aggregate surplus that was smaller than the 1959 deficit by itself. A Democratic Congress hasn't voted on a balanced budget since 1969. So, nyah.
"If each of their bracelets were photonic, would they be able to summon Captain Mar-Vell?"
No, then they'd have to touch the bracelets together once every 24 hours, or risk physical discorporation.
By the way, was I the only one who had a weird moment when McCain called Iran an "existential" threat to Israel?
Actually, now that I do the math again, Clinton should probably get joint credit for at least 3 of the surpluses and probably FY 2001 as well. So hitting 4 surpluses in 8 years is the best record since Coolidge. He should get credit for that.
FactCheck.org now has this to say about why their promised live coverage didn't pan out...
_________________________________
FactCheck.org's Debate Coverage
September 26, 2008
Check back here for our article on the first presidential debate.
We apologize for some technical difficulties we had with The FactCheck Wire during the debate. We'll be posting an article on what the candidates had to say on the main FactCheck.org site as soon as we can.
Brooks Jackson, Viveca Novak and the FactCheck.org Staff
_________________________________
Not very informative, but at least they're acknowledging they dropped the ball on their promise of live coverage.
OK, did no one else pick up on this one?
McCain said something like "Iran has a lousy government and thus a lousy economy". Um, John, does that not imply that our lousy economy might be due to a lousy government?
[I've not seen this mentioned in any blog comments so far, and at the viewing party full of sharp people I was at, I was the only one to initially pick up on it judging by my first laughing at it then others picking up on what I'd found funny)
I only watched the first hour of the debate (Stargate: Atlantis was on in the second hour and it was really good). So here are my impressions from that first hour:
McCain: He came off as very smug. It seemed to me that he was like "I have this one in the bag." He also seems to have a bit of a temper. He is definitly not Bush when it comes to speaking though. He seemed to get his points across. I don't agree with any of his points and I don't like his attitude, but the guy can speak, unlike Bush. That said, he never looked at Obama. He didn't really seem to be debating. He was just talking & answering questions.
OBama: He seemed nervous. He did stutter a little. You could tell there were times when he was uneasy. That said, he came off as very friendly and he did look at McCain. Obama was actually trying to debate McCain, but McCain was too busy smirking (and laughing. I heard McCain laugh a few times). Obama does seem to be a better speaker than a debater, but I still liked listening to the guy. I also agree with him on a lot of things and like that he wants to focus more on the United States over Iraq. Although, I do like his idea of going as Bin Laden and his people finally.
Yes, I already liked Obama going into this and didn't like McCain, so I'm biased. Like I said though, McCain did suprise me by being able to speak and answer the questions. I expected someone a little more Bush in that area. Yes, Obama's uneasiness did suprise me, but its no where as bad as Bush's stuttering. Plus, Obama actually knows what he's talking about. And Obama is a heck of a lot better speaker then John. Maybe he's not a debater, but so what? McCain isn't either.
Thats another thing about the debate: It didn't really seem like a debate. Well, at least what I saw of it. The part I saw seemed more like each canidate answering questions. Yes, there was some interupting by McCain or Obama, but I think mostly this could have been done seperately.
Yes, Obama did try, McCain didn't.
I did like that Obama called him 'John'. I don't think it was condensing. I think Obama was just trying to be friendly. I noticed on 9/11 when they walking toward Ground zero, Obama was talking to McCain and acting friendly. McCain was just his usual stiff, grumpy self.
The main difference that I can tell between the two canidates is that Obama is friendly and he actually cares about the American people. Obama actually wants Change. He wants to be a different kind of President. McCain, on the other hand, is not friendly. He's a grumpy old man who has latched onto the idea of Change because thats what the American people want to hear right now. We all want change and Obama wants to give us that. Whether or not Obama will actually be able to change things, who knows? He'll try though.
McCain will promise things, but like every other politican, he'll just go in, become President, and give us the same thing that Bush gave us.
Well, thats what I think anyway. It definitly appears that way.
So, ya, I think Obama "won" the debate.
DF2506
Now, see, I make a perfectly neutral comment about general tendencies of governments (which is why I'm not a Keynesian no matter who's in the White House), and you go for a partisan shot.
Partisan doesn't mean inaccurate. I'm not sure how someone demonstrating a faith in reality can be honest without being partisan.
I think McCain thinks of Obama as being "macaca".
Did anyone notice that when each of them was talking about the braclets, McCain never said the name of the soldier he was wearing his for, but Obama did?
Also there was the whole thing about how Obama called him John, but McCain never said 'Barrack'!
It's almost like McCain has either a problem with the personal or he has a problem humanizing someone by useing their name.
Interesting observation. What I remember seeing was that Obama didn't remember the name until he adjusted and looked at the bracelet for reference.
As for the first name/last name, I think that's more old school vs. new school. It's normal on the Senate floor to refer to someone by their title and last name.
I'm not sure how someone demonstrating a faith in reality can be honest without being partisan.
Remind me never to put you in charge of a news outlet.
Going by your reaction, it's a wonder every pundit-panel doesn't include a neo-nazi.
Politifact.com confirms Matt Adler's explanation of the "three inches taller comment." Well, at least the malnutrition part. There's no mention of economic focus toward the military being tied to it as an underlying cause. Doesn't mean that's true or not true, just simply that they don't mention it.
Did anyone notice that when each of them was talking about the braclets, McCain never said the name of the soldier he was wearing his for, but Obama did?
That may have been a wise idea, since now the father of the soldier Obama mentioned by name is complaining.
Obama won the debate, btw.
Even though I think it's just another of many silly points which inevitably arise from political debates and campainging, I just want to point out that McCain DID mention the name of the soldier whose bracelet he wears. Check it out on this YouTube vid or see the relevant text transcript at ABC News.
Also according to the ABC piece, yes, the soldier's Mother asked Obama not to keep using her son's name in campaigning. But it turns out that the soldier's Father is the one somewhat objecting to Obama's mention on the grounds that the Mother requested the name not be used. She indeed confirms having made that request, but on the other hand she seems to be defending Obama's use of her son's name, saying it's an honor that he remembers.
As you may be able to guess, the soldier's parents are divorced and apparently she is an Obama supporter while he seems to lean towards McCain. So for me, the bracelet thing is simply a non-issue, a hullaballoo over nothing. And it really didn't take much Googling to investigate it.
Even though it's linked to in the ABC News piece I just wanted to explicitly link to the AP piece in the Chicago Tribune myself. It gives the soldier's Mother's exact response to all this and a proper context for it all.
. . . .
Obama responded that he too wears a bracelet, one for Sgt. Jopek, but for a different reason -- to make sure all American wars are fought for good reason.
"No U.S. soldier ever dies in vain because they're carrying out the missions of their commander in chief. And we honor all the service that they've provided. Our troops have performed brilliantly," Obama said. "The question for the next president is, are we making good judgments about how to keep America safe, precisely because sending our military into battle is such an enormous step."
It was an answer that Tracy Jopek said made her proud.
"His response in the debate was exactly that, a response, after John McCain put it out there first," she said. "I think it was an appropriate response -- he was just saying there's another side to the story, there's two different viewpoints."
Obama's comment sparked a number of angry comments from bloggers who suggested Obama was exploiting her son's death to score political points. Jopek said those bloggers might have heard comments that her son's father made on Wisconsin Public Radio on March 20.
In an interview with Glen Moberg, National Guard Staff Sgt. Brian Jopek said his ex-wife asked Obama not to wear the bracelet at any further public appearances. But Obama was still apparently wearing it, he said.
"So, that's his own choice. I mean that's something Barack Obama, that's a choice that he continues to wear it despite Tracy asking him not to," he told Moberg.
Tracy Jopek said she didn't hear the interview but that her ex-husband, who is currently stationed in Cuba, mischaracterized her viewpoint. An e-mail message sent to Brian Jopek through his daughter on Sunday was not immediately returned.
"I think he knew my intention, he understands it was a gesture between me and Sen. Obama," she said. "It was just little piece of peace for us. I don't understand how people can take that and turn it into some garbage on the Internet."
She wouldn't directly say whether she wanted Obama to refrain from mentioning the bracelet again, but she hopes the whole issue will just go away.
"I think these bracelets should be looked upon as an honor that both candidates wear them to respect the troops," she said. "My request to both of them is that they honor the troops by lifting the conversation to the issues, and that they continue to live up to the standards our military deserves."
One last time... I just thought I'd point out that the Washington Post Fact-Checker blog has now weighed in on The Great Bracelet Debate.
They use a FOX News piece as their starting off point and then kind of echo what I've already pointed out, but folks can judge for themselves by clicking the link. In the end, their conclusion is... "The Fox commentators did not exactly 'make things up' since they were relying on an interview with Brian Jopek. But the story is more complicated than that."