Disney has announced that they intend to shutter the Adventurers Club in downtown Pleasure Island come the end of September. I want to try and convince them otherwise.
It's not as if the AC has been singled out; they're closing down all the clubs in the area with the stated intent of making the area more "family friendly."
Although the various over-18 venues on the island might fall under the label of not being conducive to family enjoyment, this most definitely does not describe the Adventurers Club. Yes, it has an active bar, but so what? If the presence of a bar made something adult-oriented, TGI Fridays would not be a family establishment. The fact is that every time we have attended the Adventurers Club, there have been kids of all ages in attendance, entranced by the club and its wildly talented cast.
For those unfamiliar with it, the Adventurers Club purports to be a 1930s private club for globe-spanning adventurers, having a pledge drive for new members. Guests mingle freely with colorful characters, interact with animatronic statues and puppets, and watch demented improv comedy and shows by the Club's "daredevil" officers. If you have been there, then you know a night at the Club is always great entertainment. If you have not had the opportunity, then we're about to fight to save it so that you may yet have the chance.
Long-time readers know how much the Club means to the David family. I enlisted the cast of the AC years ago to propose to Kathleen, making us the first couple to do so. Whenever we go to Disney World, we can be found there every night during our stay.
There is an on-line petition going on that already has thousands of signatures, and I wish them well (and have indeed signed it myself). But on-line petitions only go so far. What corporate types respect is actual letters, because it means that the writers took the time to write it, put it in an envelope and slap a stamp on it.
If you want to help preserve one of the single greatest entertainment experiences in Disney, then I urge you to write to:
Robert Iger
Chief Executive Officer
Walt Disney Corporation
500 South Buena Vista Street
Burbank, CA 91521-4873
I cannot stress enough: Keep letters civil. Polite. Family-friendly, if you will. If you have attended the AC, talk about your experiences and how much the place means to you. If you haven't been, underscore the good things you've heard about it and your intention to attend in the future.
And never forget the Adventurers Club credo (a couple of lines of which I slipped into "1602: Fantastic Four"):
We climb the highest mountains,
just to get a better view.
We plumb the deepest oceans,
because we're daring through and through.
We cross the scorching desert,
martinis in our hand.
We ski the polar ice caps,
in tuxedos looking grand.
We are reckless, brave, and loyal,
and valiant to the end.
If you come in here a stranger,
you will exit as a friend.
KUNGALOOSH!
Feel free to cross post this wherever you think it will do any good.
PAD
Posted by Peter David at September 26, 2008 09:25 AM | TrackBack | Other blogs commentingThere's no way you're getting out of this without a "sex with little boys" joke.
In case someone doesn't have the faintest idea of what the hell he's referring to, Daniel is citing South Park's take off on the AC in the episode that wrote out Chef. Why Parker and Stone thought the AC had anything to do with that, I cannot begin to fathom. Go figure.
Now, a warning: I feel really strongly about the Club, and I will not, WILL NOT, allow this thread to go off into stupid and sick tangents. I will take the step of deleting any posts that seem to be going in that direction, and if it persists, will lock down the thread. We all clear?
PAD
PAD: "Why Parker and Stone thought the AC had anything to do with that, I cannot begin to fathom."
To be fair, they made it very clear that the joke was just that the names were similar. Like someone talking about NAFTA being an evil organisation, no wait, that's NAMBLA.
The whole episode was a riff on Scientology. I think the basic joke was that Scientology has "science" in the title to make it sound respectable. So their fake group had something respectable in its title, too. They mention twice that the actual Adventure Club is a good thing.
Okay, you're not getting it:
If anyone wants to discuss their experiences at the Adventurers Club or active ways to save it, I'm all for that. I will not, WILL NOT, permit digressions into "South Park" or other similarly pointless topics. Not this time. I'm pulling rank here. The next posting in that vein gets deleted. If it is simply impossible for you guys to, for once, honor my wishes, I'll delete all the posts and lock off comments.
PAD
PAD:
Rumor has it (and only rumor) that the AC will be re-incarnated into a new venue, either at Animal Kingdom, AKL Villas, or possibly the proposed Night Kingdom (if it ever happens).
Letters of support will certainly help, even in the event of a possible move.
One aside, one of the issues with PI is apparently it needs a lot of restoration on the understructure, which may not be possible without a full shutdown...
Also of note is that in general, PI has not done very well financially for Disney recently. This is due in part to many attendees using the Water Parks and more option instead of a straight pay to enter and an overall lesser consumption of profitable beverages.
Personally, I'm not sure a complete redesign is needed, but a revamp in order. I would have liked to have seen some adult oriented dining options in there maybe.
If the bar is a possible source of the problem, then why not just close the bar and make it non-alcoholic. I’d rather pass up the drink (it’s easy for me since I rarely drink anyhow) and have the rest of the experience intact than see the whole thing shut down. It would still be a bit dodgy on the “all ages” label, but it would most certainly fall under the “most ages” label. It’s certainly an idea to be passed up the ladder to them as a viable option.
You're not alone in your frustration. There is an ever growing list of comments over on wdwmagic.com http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=324685.
It seems that the AC is beloved by many. I never got to experience it really. Hubby and I popped in for a peek on our honeymoon, but didn't know what it was really about. It felt like we were coming in half though, so we left. Had I known... we would have stayed for sure.
Even if the argument is to make it "family friendly" the entire WDW park is pretty darn family friendly. I don't have a problem with having an area for mostly adults to go to later in the evening!
There are rumors.. just rumors, that the AC will crop up elsewhere on property. Perhaps the letter writing campaign will help make that happen if they are on the fence.
I love Disney and hope they listen to the AC fans about this.
Page 16 of the long thread I mentioned has additional names. They only listed email addresses, but it's a start. I agree with PAD that snail mail is the BEST way to get their attention. But for the list of names, I am copying and pasting the content from CityOfIndustry's post. With the names, finding snail mail addresses should be easy enough...
Kevin Lansberry
VP Downtown Disney Operations
kevin.lansberry@disney.com
Meg Crofton
President Walt Disney World Resort
meg.crofton@disney.com
Jay Rasulo
Chairman Walt Disney Parks & Resorts
jay.rasulo@disney.com
Al Weiss
President Worldwide Operations - Disney Parks and Resorts
al.weiss@disney.com
You're not alone in your frustration. There is an ever growing list of comments over on wdwmagic.com http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=324685.
It seems that the AC is beloved by many. I never got to experience it really. Hubby and I popped in for a peek on our honeymoon, but didn't know what it was really about. It felt like we were coming in half though, so we left. Had I known... we would have stayed for sure.
Even if the argument is to make it "family friendly" the entire WDW park is pretty darn family friendly. I don't have a problem with having an area for mostly adults to go to later in the evening!
There are rumors.. just rumors, that the AC will crop up elsewhere on property. Perhaps the letter writing campaign will help make that happen if they are on the fence.
I love Disney and hope they listen to the AC fans about this.
Page 16 of the long thread I mentioned has additional names. They only listed email addresses, but it's a start. I agree with PAD that snail mail is the BEST way to get their attention. But for the list of names, I am copying and pasting the content from CityOfIndustry's post. With the names, finding snail mail addresses should be easy enough...
Kevin Lansberry
VP Downtown Disney Operations
kevin.lansberry@disney.com
Meg Crofton
President Walt Disney World Resort
meg.crofton@disney.com
Jay Rasulo
Chairman Walt Disney Parks & Resorts
jay.rasulo@disney.com
Al Weiss
President Worldwide Operations - Disney Parks and Resorts
al.weiss@disney.com
I'm pretty surprised that, considering how careful Disney is to make their park family-friends, they would close the Adventurers Club to make it "family friendly." If it wasn't conducive to family vacationing, why leave it open for so long?
Is it possible this is actually being done for financial reasons, either general cutbacks (not a great economy, k'know) or because this club was turning a loss?
See my post above.. The short version is no, PI in general is not making enough money.. A loss, I don't know, but not what that space was expected to generate. The issue was not the bar in general, its that PI is not drawing paying customers like it used to, and one of the reasons in all honesty is there are a lot more options in Orlando now in that vein than there were when it was built).
The AC was one of the more popular attractions, but as I also mentioned there are structural issues as well with the entire PI complex - not unsafe, but needs work. (Not expecting Disney to say THAT in public). In addition, its very staff intensive and maintenance heavy.
If they do in fact 're-imagine' it (as I believe they will), imagine what they could do with updated technology.
Then might I suggest that a good point to bring up is that the folks going to the Adventurers Club are the very ones responsible for all the kids being at the more profitable enterprises. Consider it a loss leader. If this less than super profitable element is partly responsible for getting parents to show up and bring their high spending brood with them it's something they should try to keep at all costs.
It's true that Orlando has many more options than before so Disney would be unwise to make their option even less desireable.
Anyway, that seems to be the kind of argument they might listen to.
My family is visiting Disneyworld this November (we go every two years) and I am MOST upset that Pleasure Island, and specifically the Adventurer's Club, is closing in September. While I don't have the "there every night" fortitude of the David family, I am usually there one to two nights of our week-long stay. It has been a required stop for me on each trip. I also enjoyed their improv comedy club, where I actually got on stage to participate once and have a pin to show for it.
We were at AC while in Orlando just two weeks ago. Our children literally grew up there and many in the cast are friends. We are extremely disappointed in the announcement but heartened by the stories about AC possibly finding a new life elsewhere on property. I have heard from a PI cast member (not at AC) that some of the longtime AC folks had been taken aside a few weeks ago and encouraged to audition for the cast of the new American Idol attraction at Disney Hollywood Studios. I hope that that was so they could retain them to return to a new incarnation of AC at a later date.
There are some good comments, including some from PI cast members, attached to the article about this over at Jim Hill Media. http://jimhillmedia.com/blogs/jim_hill/jhmcomments/15856.aspx
Bob Iger continues to torment me. First Twin Peaks. Then Sports Night. Now this?
How many times MUST I write to Bob Iger in my life???
Most of the restaurants on PI were seeing lower and lower attendance since they were not participating in the Disney Dining Plan that has absolutely filled all the eateries that are in the program. Also, only being open for the evening hours hurt many of them since the largest crowds by far are at Downtown Disney during the day.
Disney does things to make money, it's that simple, and if something isn't making money (or getting enough visitors in the parks) they start looking at options to replace or revamp the attraction.
Personally, I've never been to PI at all, I'm usually in the park itself until they kick me out. :) I've never understood the attraction of "adult" beverages and not one for the dancing either. I know that many will morn the loss of the AC and other attractions, but I'm looking forward to what is going in it's place.
Personally, I've never been to PI at all, I'm usually in the park itself until they kick me out. :) I've never understood the attraction of "adult" beverages and not one for the dancing either.
Spoken like someone who has never had an adult beverage served to him in a plastic monkey's head...
PAD
"Spoken like someone who has never had an adult beverage served to him in a plastic monkey's head..."
Ewww...they don't at least use glass cups/mugs?
Beverages taste better coming from glass containers...
Disney needs the adults in order to get them to bring the kids. I admit I missed Downtown Disney on our last trip because it rained on one of earlier nights and since it was my husband's first trip he wanted to see the electric parade on the night we had planned for Downtown. I'm hoping next time to not have this problem and maybe even skip the Magic Kingdom Park since we don't have kids and it's the only dry park.
I drank my way through Epcot world showcase and had a blast, but it was still Family Friendly over there because the kids in our party were collecting items for masks to take home. Everything at Disney is family friendly even when its geared toward the older crowd, its not like they have strip clubs or anything. They need to be careful that they don't alienate the older folks or they aren't going to bring the kids. Also, the kid population is shrinking since the baby boomers are retiring so they need to remember who kept them going all these years.
I seem to recall concerns about teenage loitering and the possibility of "gang violence" at Pleasure Island at around this time last year, with Disney officials claiming that they were trying to crack down on "inappropriate behavior" while critics accused them of racial profiling and discrimination. I would imagine that has as much (if not more) to do with this decision as profitability.
If it's not too much of a digression, I'd love to hear about how you proposed to Kathleen at the Adventurers Club. My wife and I have been to the AC often enough become attached to it, and UI'm intrigued by the possibilities of what you could do there.
If it's not too much of a digression, I'd love to hear about how you proposed to Kathleen at the Adventurers Club.
Those of us who have been long-time Comics Buyer's Guide readers were lucky enough to hear this story shortly after it happened -- and it is, indeed, one worth retelling, so I hope Peter will run it again one day.
PI and all related clubs were always put off until after the other parks whenever I went down to Orlando and was generally too tired. always wanted to go and stuff and I spread the word when I heard baout the impending closing (from the above referenced jim hill media site...great source for disneyanna stuff). I may try and get there before it's too late just to experience it... money and time willing.
Kathy: "Also, the kid population is shrinking since the baby boomers are retiring so they need to remember who kept them going all these years."
Actually, the kid population has gotten much bigger.
http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/indicators/53Numberofchildren.cfm
Quote: "The number of children under age 18 in the United States has grown from 47.3 million in 1950 to 73.7 million in 2006."
I think Kathy was referring to the ratio of children. The population is bigger all around, but the middle aged segment is growing faster.
True, the ratio of kids to adults is lower than the past. However, the ratio of kids to Disneyworlds is better than ever. I don't think Disney's attractions are going to have trouble any time soon because of a lack of children.
"Spoken like someone who has never had an adult beverage served to him in a plastic monkey's head...
PAD"
Nope, but I have had a Coke from a plastic monkey's head. I just don't like the taste of any alcoholic drink, never have. The ones I really don't understand are the wine drinkers and dry wines...
i thought your comment was pretty funny "Ignore the 2012 date. That's just to keep it at the top of the blog indefinitely"
i wish you would have picked Dec 22 2012 rather than July 5
Mouse watcher Jim Hill Talks about this:
He's not to positive about where things are going.
"The number of children under age 18 in the United States has grown from 47.3 million in 1950 to 73.7 million in 2006."
But what was the ratio of children to adults in the USA in 1950? How does it compare to 2006?
Thanks for posting the links to the Jim Hill articles, Scavenger. It's good to see some of the reasoning behind the decisions.
Newsflash: Disney is a business and makes decisions based on its own interests! Stop the presses!
Newsflash: Disney is a business and makes decisions based on its own interests! Stop the presses!
Right, right. And every decision that a business makes in its own interests is always a good one. Which is why Marvel becoming its own distributor back in the 90s and Time-Warner being bought by AOL were such spiffy ideas. And, oh, Disney sold off all the Disney stores because that was in its own interests except, oh, wait, now they're buying BACK the stores. Whoops.
I have no idea who Jim Hill is and, aside from the fact that he comes across so much like a Disney apologist that he needs to run a disclaimer at the bottom, I don't especially care. Outpourings of consumer interest can, and has, impacted on corporate decisions, and as has been pointed out elsewhere, even if the AC is shuttered, such active expressions of interest can result in its being reincarnated elsewhere. So if it's okay, I don't think I'll just swallow the company line or the line of its apologists and keep right on letting a corporation know just what I, a frequent consumer of the product, think about its decisions.
PAD
I've been reading Jim Hill Media for years. I wouldn't call him (or any of the people that work for his site) an apologist so much as a Disney analyst. He used to work for them and can generally get inside their heads and give what he believes is their point of view on corporate decisions.
"Right, right. And every decision that a business makes in its own interests is always a good one. "
I never claimed such a thing, Peter. They're making a decision based on all the information they have at this point in time, and sometimes (or in business, MANY times) those decisions can be wrong. Is it disappointing when things we like go away? Sure it is.
But that's part of this vast tapestry some call "life".
And every decision that a business makes in its own interests is always a good one.
But that doesn't automatically make this the wrong decision just because you have a personal interest in it.
I have no idea who Jim Hill is and, aside from the fact that he comes across so much like a Disney apologist that he needs to run a disclaimer at the bottom, I don't especially care.
That's a petty view to take, PAD, just because he's apparently coming from a view that you don't agree with. I know this is not the way you normally operate, and I know that PI means a lot to you, but you seem to be going over the top over this.
My wife and I have no kids, and we prefer the adult things of Disney, and we still have no interest in PI. So, does that mean I should automatically be dismissed because I can see Disney's POV?
I've never managed to make it to Walt Disney World the couple of times I've been in Orlando, so it looks like I missed out on PI and AC.
In a somewhat similar closing, The Star Trek Experience at the Las Vegas Hilton is closing down on September 1st, giving fans a fairly short time to have one last chance to visit it before it is closed down.
I've been there quite a few times over the years and it is a good place to visit for the atmosphere and fannish stuff.
I was in town for Westercon this past weekend, and did dinner at Quarks one last time and picked up a few things in the gift shop (including a full set of the squashed quarters). It seems most of the people there were aware of the impending closing and the employees were fairly low-key about it. A lot of the employees, especially the ones in character, have been there for quite a while. If I wasn't already planning on going to WorldCon, I might end up going to the big Trek Con, which will probably turn into a big farewell party for the Experience.
I'm glad I got to go there one last time before it is gone, but it will definitely be missed.
"I'm glad I got to go there one last time before it is gone, but it will definitely be missed."
What? No letter writing campaign? No slams against the Las Vegas Hilton? Obviously another "business is always right" robot!
Seriously, Peter....why not just treasure the great memories you've had at the Adventurers Club without turning it into a Big Thing?
Nothing Disney does will ever take away your good memories of the place (including your proposal to your wife), and I'm not tracking how not being able to visit the A.C. in perpetuity is some kind of "Top of the Blog" cause celeb.
Oh, wait...I guess I'm now a Disney Apologist...so nevermind. Carry on.
But that doesn't automatically make this the wrong decision just because you have a personal interest in it.
No, but it doesn't automatically make it the right decision simply because they feel it's "in their interest."
I have no idea who Jim Hill is and, aside from the fact that he comes across so much like a Disney apologist that he needs to run a disclaimer at the bottom, I don't especially care.
That's a petty view to take, PAD, just because he's apparently coming from a view that you don't agree with. I know this is not the way you normally operate, and I know that PI means a lot to you, but you seem to be going over the top over this.
No, I'm just focused. I think Disney is making a stupid decision, and am encouraging those who agree with me to let Disney know their feelings on it. Jim Hill has hotlinks on his website that direct people to Disney vacation links. I wouldn't expect someone so linked in to the companythink to share my worldview, nor do I believe I should therefore make mine subordinate to his simply because he appears to be representing the company line while I'm voicing the concerns of the consumer.
My wife and I have no kids, and we prefer the adult things of Disney, and we still have no interest in PI. So, does that mean I should automatically be dismissed because I can see Disney's POV?
Well...yeah. Because since you have no emotional connection to the Adventurers Club, you have zero comprehension of how its supporters feel about it. In this case I have no interest in your opinion on the subject because you have no frame of reference for my feelings on it. Your opinion on it doesn't matter to me because it's not an informed opinion vis a vis the club. Pretty simple, really.
PAD
I'm not sure I understand the problem some are having with this. There's no harm that I can see from PAD urging supporters of the Adventurers Club to try to save it. He isn't urging anyone who doesn't care to boycott Disney. He isn't even urging those who DO care to boycott Disney. He isn't claiming that this is indicative of a failure in the capitalist system that requires a takeover by the forces of international communism. If the effort fails nobody will be any worse off and if it succeeds it will in no way harm anyone (and bring enjoyment to some).
So what's the problem?
I don't have a vested interest in the Adventurers Club either (though my wife and I live in Florida, we're more "Key West people" than "Orlando people"), but I can completely understand the desire to preserve something one thinks is awesome, and that one has a personal connection to. My favorite Key West vacation spot-- an adults-only resort called The Atlantic Shores-- closed last year, to be torn down to build a more "family-friendly luxury resort community," which-- from what I can see-- basically means just another bland hotel for rich people who like new things. Although I get why someone thought this was good for business, I thought it was a shame to swap a place that was distinct and had its own character for what's basically just another overpriced Holiday Inn. Had there been a petition to sign, I would've signed it. The fact that there wasn't probably means that I was in the distinct minority there.
However, in this case, over 5,000 people have apparently voiced their displeasure over this decision. That's 5,000 people with the disposable income to visit an expensive theme park often enough to feel like they have a stake in this. I imagine that there are far more people who have yet to discover the attraction, or who enjoy the attraction but don't know that it's going away, or who enjoy the attraction but don't give out personal information over the Internet, or...
My point is, I think that-- in an effort to do what's "good for business," Disney ought to pay attention to these people. It seems to me that the reason Disney can afford to charge such outrageous prices is that people feel a personal connection to these theme park attractions-- there's a reason no other theme park can touch Disney. Water down the brand too much, and people are liable to go elsewhere.
A few years back, when it seemed that Disney was putting a lot of energy into developing movies based on their theme park attractions--the Haunted Mansion, the Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy, the delayed-but-still-perhaps-coming-soon-to-theatres-near-you Jungle Cruise--I always figured that the Adventurers' Club would be one of those properties they'd turn to sooner rather than later. It's got interesting characters, some measure of fan awareness, and so on after all. (Or, in more cynical terms: the idea of an Adventurers' Club movie is certainly not intrinsically sillier than a Pirates movie was or a Jungle Cruise movie is...)
So maybe one way to convince Disney to keep the Adventurers' Club alive would be to convince them that it's something that they could adapt into other areas of their business, be it movies, Disney-on-Ice shows (there was a nice article in the New York Times recently about how Disney's ice shows are quietly successful, especially in bringing in audiences in new territories...), or whatever else.
Just trying to get back to thinking positively here...
No, but it doesn't automatically make it the right decision simply because they feel it's "in their interest."
I never said it is. But I'm leaving the possibility open that this indeed in their best interest. I won't say you're incapable of doing the same on this issue, but you don't seem to leaving that as an option at this time.
Your opinion on it doesn't matter to me because it's not an informed opinion vis a vis the club.
Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but folks can indeed have an informed opinion on something, regardless of their own emotional attachment, or lack thereof.
I would find it disappointing if somebody who's uninformed but willing to agree with you means that much more than somebody who is informed and doesn't agree with you.
I'm sure there are plenty of discussions around here where this line of thought is applicable.
So what's the problem?
I don't have any problem with the "Save X" efforts. I may be involved with one such effort myself before long.
But it's PAD's attitude - as I perceive it - of "I'm right. Disney is wrong. You're wrong if you disagree with me. You're wrong with if you agree with Disney" that rubs me the wrong way.
Seriously, Peter....why not just treasure the great memories you've had at the Adventurers Club without turning it into a Big Thing?
Seriously...why do you care?
I don't understand some of you guys. I really don't. I thought I was making this abundantly clear: I want to provide this space for people to express fond remembrances of the Adventurers Club and to suggest ways to save it. Not only am I not inviting people to piss on my parade, but I specifically--for once--endeavored to set the ground rules by asking people NOT to. Why some find it impossible to respect this request, I cannot fathom.
PAD
I've never been to the Adventurers Club -- nor have I been to a Disney theme park, for that matter -- but my interest has been piqued. I hope some other people will post about their experiences at the AC because I'd like to know more about people's emotional connection to the place. Those who have already done so have painted a very enticing picture in my mind.
As for the "is it right or is it wrong" debate, the answer is "why is anyone arguing about this?" Based on the available information it may be the most logical decision for Disney from a business standpoint. But if enough people write nice-but-impassioned letters to Disney, it may change the equation. Letter writing campaigns can and sometimes do succeed in making things happen. If nothing else, this one is raising the profile of the AC. Until now, I'd never heard of it. Now I'm thinking I've missed out on something.
Oh, and Jerry: I love you like a brother but eliminating the bar is never -- NEVER -- the right thing to do. N-E-V-E-R. Especially when they're serving beer in plastic mugs shaped like monkey heads. Beer is good, and monkeys are cool.
"KUNGALOOSH" indeed. :)
I've never been to the Adventurers Club -- nor have I been to a Disney theme park, for that matter -- but my interest has been piqued.
I'd recommend anybody go at least once to Disneyland or Disney World. It's worth the experience, whether you're going with the family or it's just adults. There's a lot of kiddie, but there's enough stuff for adults as well, even if you don't go to PI.
I've seen just about everything else Disney has to offer:
My wife and I have gone to one or the other (or both) every year for the last 6 years, including Disney World last November, Disneyland this past February after we went to the Gallifrey One convention, and then a Disney Cruise (along with Disney World again) not even 2 months ago.
Honestly, I thought I'd hate the cruise, seeing as how we don't have kids and I had no escape from dealing with other peoples' kids running rampant over the ship. But we had a great time. And then I got to hear my wife grumble for several weeks about how the Vacation Club package hadn't shown up yet. Thankfully it did recently. :)
And one of the things that has now caught our interest is the Adventures by Disney for sometime in the next few years, and they offer periods of travel during the year just for adults, no kids allowed! Hallelujah! :D
I really don't understand the fuss - the restaurant that my husband and I had our first date no longer exists, the restaurant where we had diiner the night he proposed no longer exists. It happens.
I really don't understand the fuss
Or the concept of honoring requests from your host, it seems.
PAD
Craig J. Ries wrote: And then I got to hear my wife grumble for several weeks about how the Vacation Club package hadn't shown up yet. Thankfully it did recently. :)
Craig, If you are seriously interested in the DVC, may I suggest that you check out dvcbyresale.com? Basically, it is where current DVC members sell their (no longer wanted) memberships. It can be a lot more affordable.
Long-time readers know how much the Club means to the David family. I enlisted the cast of the AC years ago to propose to Kathleen, making us the first couple to do so.
I missed this story. Is there a link to the full account, or failing that, could you retell it for those of us who missed out the first time around?
My friend recently tried to purchase a bar. Now, I don't usually go to bars for two reasons: drunk idiots and smoking. But it was in Ohio, which bans indoor smoking in public places, and I was seldom in the bar late enough in the evening to see people drunk.
I would stop at the bar once or twice a week, have a drink or two, some good food, play a game of pool or two, and generally just hang out chatting with the wait staff. It was the first time I felt comfortable in a bar.
Due to circumstances beyond his control, the place was closed. I was depressed for over a week. The bar had become a part of my life, even a home away from home place where everybody knew your name.
I wish it were still there.
Good luck with trying to save the Adventurers Club. I've not been to Disney World in 3 decades, so I've never been to the Club, but I sure understand your interest in saving the place.
The AC has been a special "date spot" for my wife and I on all the visits we've made to the park. Get a sitter for the daughter, and head off to Pleasure Island for dinner, then the Adventurer's Club. Ironically, Disney's decision here makes it less likely I'll spend any money at Downtown Disney (and makes any glee at a potential trip to WDW that much diminished). I've informed Mr Iger of same.
The AC has been a bit of the Disney Parks at Downtown Disney -- really, the only bit. Its loss diminishes the property, and adds a bit of sadness to the Disney experience -- which, I suspect, is not what the suits want to have happen here.
I suspect the decision is final -- you don't tell the cast to look for new jobs and issue press releases about the big plans without having money already invested in the effort. Here's hoping that, beyond the faint chance of saving the original, the outpouring of protest will make the WDW folks seriously think about reopening the AC elsewhere at the park, though it will never quite be the same again.
Craig, If you are seriously interested in the DVC
Actually, I misspoke, it's a package specifically for the Cruise, not the Disney Vacation Club. Disney's got so many different things, I have trouble keeping track of them all. :P
-- Brad: "I also enjoyed their improv comedy club, where I actually got on stage to participate once and have a pin to show for it."
Was this an "open mic night" kind of thing, or a cast-driven improv where audience members were invited to participate? Just curious.
And what was the improv like? If it was cast-driven, did they focus on humor related to the club's premise of being an elite organization for globe-trotting adventurers? Or was it more free-form? Were the jokes ever topical? Sorry for the barrage of questions, but you people are making the AC sound very cool. :)
The Adventurers Club is one of the highlights of our trips to Disney World. I cannot imagine going to downtown Pleasure Island if that isn't there.
Neil
The Adventurer's Club is one of the best things at Disney. I'll have to get a letter written.
Pleasure Island, though, has been increasingly dead. There is less there all the time, and the AC and Comedy Club were about it. Years ago, Pleasure Island was jammed with people. I think City Walk hurt it.
I just got around to looking at this thread PAD. I have never been to Adventurers' Club, but if you are this passionate about it, I will do what I can to aid you in your efforts.
I may even include it in my weekly column. I wish you luck in your efforts. Please keep us updated. Again, I will do what I can on my end.
!!!!!
I hope the proposed shutdown is for practical and prosaic reasons like structural integrity. "Family friendly" ?!? Having a pseudo-nightclub area was the area's raison d'etre. As Disnified clubs, they already ARE family friendly, and are MEANT for having after-hours fun for the adults. Geeez
I have been to the AC as much as possible whenever I get to WDW. I even have the old badge & canteen from when you could join up w/the club (and get good clothes w/the logo embroidered on it in the stores on PI). Decidely one of the high points of my Disney experience as I've gotten older.
Cutting the Nautilus, that garish "entrtainment architecture #^#%$, cutting the educational aspects from EPCOT and now this? Disney seems bent the LCD/ram-em-through-the-gates. Foo.
AC will be missed.
PI will be missed.
We go to WDW every 2-4 years and a PI/AC visit is on the schedule every time.
We work our way around the entire selection of PI. We dance at Manikins and Beach Club, Groove to the Jazz & Blues, laugh at the Comedy Club, enjoy the stories of the Adventures and celebrate New Year every night.
Being very scrupulous to stay on topic, here goes. PAD wants people to deluge Robert Iger with pleas that the Adventurers Club be spared, because it has a sentimental association for him and, he hopes, many others. I hope the drive is successful, because the AC sounds like a nice place, and one that makes visiting Disney's parks a much better experience for the adults who bring their children. I hope this doesn't veer very far into "stupid and sick tangents," but it's very important to consider the points of view of Robert Iger and the board of directors. They are attempting to maximize profits, rather than preserve charming places out of the goodness of their hearts. They're a crew of capitalists steering their business toward what they hope are increased net profits, and it's no surprise that they value return on investment higher than PAD's pleasant memories. PAD's sentiments are only significant to the Disney board's business policy if they signify an economic benefit. Disney is a for-profit enterprise, and it has been since it began.
jerome, is there any way we can access your writing online?
Jeffrey,
Why is it that any time people suggest communicating their wishes to Disney, we get a lecture on basic economics? Do you really think we are that clueless?
People like PAD and myself fully understand that Disney is a business. What Disney doesn't seem to understand (or you either) is that the emotional investments people make in the attractions are what KEEP US COMING BACK. That translates into MONEY and PROFIT.
Nightclubs are easy to come by. AC is UNIQUE. Amusement parks and wild rides are a dime a dozen. The Disney park experience is unique.
I always eat a character dinner at the Liberty Tree tavern in the Magic Kingdom. Disney recently announced they are doing away with the character aspect of that experience. So my family will no longer pay $30 per person for dinner there. We can eat off property during our afternoon breaks and save the cash. So Disney will not be getting as much of my money. And you can bet I'm going to let them know just that! We'll see how crowded LTT is after this change. I suspect it will be much less so. And that is a lost for the cast as well as the guests.
The magic that Disney creates for the guests is what keeps those guest going back. The unique experience, the customer service, the memories and traditions families build are what keep our cash flowing into their pockets.
So our sentimental attachments ARE economic benefits to the company. And we are right to protest loudly when that basic fact is ignored in the name of short-term cost cutting. If enough of us protest, maybe Disney will realize that there is a significant audience of PAYING customers that are considering spending their time and money elsewhere. So the suits in charge would be wise to reconsider their decision and either make AC part of the new Downtown Disney experience OR move the attraction to another site on property. We're not asking the company to hemorrhage money. We're asking them to think about something more than the next quarter's numbers! Long term profits should matter, too. We're asking them to keep Disney special for all our sakes. We'll gladly pay the money as long as the experiences we love are there.
Kawherp
Bill,
Yes. It's under www.philly.com. You then click on Philadelphia Daily News, and then the YO! Section (features). My column runs every Monday, but you can access my previous columns from the last 7 months or so by putting my name in the Search engine once you have entered the YO! Section.
OR you can just e-mail me, and I'll put you on the list of people I e-mail my stories to. My e-address is jeromemaida@hotmail.com.
PAD,
I am going to send a stamped letter to Iger stating that I have only been to Disney once and was planning on finally going again in large part because of what I have heard about the Adventurers Club. Your engagement story piqued my interest.
I was going to let it go, but I have to say it:
I really don't understand some of you. PAD has given us hours of enjoyment with his writing and is always welcome to debate topics on this blog, which he takes the time and effort to have in the first place.
So for the only the second time I can remember - the only other time being when the Mets lost in the 2006 playoffs - he asks only those who will help him or reminisce with him and/or come up with ideas to help him to post, and he gets this impolite garbage from:
Craig,
"But it's PAD's attitude - as I perceive it - of 'I'm right. Disney is wrong. You're wrong if you disagree with me. You're wrong if you agree with Disney that rubs me the wrong way."
In the first place, in this case, he does feel he is right and Disney is wrong. That's the whole point of him pointing the thread. So he can get them to correct their actions. In the second place, you ARE wrong for disagreeing with him because he explicitly asked you not to. He explicitly said on this thread he was not interested in a debate. He wanted people to help him and take his side. He has suffered fools in debates on everything from politics to his comics work. many times. This one time he only wanted to hear fromm people who would help him or at the very least offer support. Disney may be right? Great. He doesn't care. In this case, he wants help to convince Disney they are making a mistake. Your continuing to harp on your position - which, along with the other Disney trips you've taken and things you've liked, or your wife grumbling - was not asked for in this particular thread, did nothing to help PAD or at least adhere to his humble request to keep the thread focused on the Adventurers Club and was and continues to be just plain rude.
Mark,
"Seriously, Peter - why not just treasure the great memories you've had at the Adventurers Club
without turning it into a Big Thing."
Because he simply wants to accomplish something, asked for help and ideas and asked people not rain on his parade in this instance. He is harming no one by doing this. Why not either help or if you don't want to help or offer ideas keep it to yourself if you don't think it's a big deal. Because PAD obviously does. Why can't people honor a simple request in this one instance?
Megan,
"I really don't understand the fuss"
And I really don't understand why so many people can't understand and adhere to a gracious host's wishes to be constructive toward something he wants to accomplish or to keep their negative opinions to themselves when he specifically asked this time that they do so.
To get this topic back on point. . .
Sigh. I have never been there as I have never been to Disney World. I wish I could go in light of what I have read from Peter in the past.
As for ideas on how to save the AC, if there is anyone reading this post associated with Pixar, this would be a good time to suggest to the powers that be the possibility of an AC movie.
I was going to let it go, but I have to say it:
Considering I said it 3 days ago, and now you're the one dragging it back up just to sling shit around, maybe you should have.
Craig,
"Considering I said it 3 days ago, and now you're the one dragging it back up just to sling shit around, maybe you should have"
And maybe you should have kept your "this rubs me the wrong way" stuff to yourself in the first place, ever think of that?
And the reason I brought it up recently is because I was made aware of it recently and able to respond to it recently. Ever think of that? I'm choosing to respect PAD's wishes AND help him. You've chosen to do neither. And piss on PAD's parade so to to speak. And you still don't seem to get that you have or that you were asked not to or that you were rude because there was no reason to. He did not ask for a debate. He asked for help. You still don't seem to get that on this thread, your opinions were not asked for or wanted if they did not help our host. Pity.
I was going to let it go... *insert eye roll*
You still don't seem to get that on this thread, your opinions were not asked for or wanted if they did not help our host. Pity.
Neither were yours.
What makes you think you're so special that your opinions, which also have not the least bit to do with the topic of discussion PAD wanted on this thread, are wanted?
So, pot, I humbly request that you turn around and shake hands with the kettle.
PAD, I want to apologize for my part in this discussion.
I do understand what your intent with the thread was, but it was apparent from the start that there were many other aspects of the topic that folks wanted to discuss. This is such an interesting topic, that without a thread where we can actually discuss it, it becomes hard to resist talking about here, along with the responses that go along with it.
Kawherp: I'll be more direct:
PAD wants three things. 1. He wants the Adventurers Club to remain open, because he has many pleasant memories of it. 2. He wants many people to write to Robert Iger so as to achieve number one. 3. He wants this thread to be devoted only to informed or uninformed (it makes no difference which) strategizing to achieve numbers one and two. My response is this: 1. He is free to feel as he wishes about the Adventures Club. 2. He is free to solicit a write-in campaign, and to hope it will have effect. 3. I don't agree with PAD's third point, but my previous post is still up, so I have to admit his position hasn't been all that disturbing. 4. You are offended by "a lecture on basic economics" and wonder whether I "think you are clueless." Yes, I do think you (a very singular "you" - Kawherp) are clueless. I am not an economist, but I am shocked that you don't understand the only subject which is of interest to the administration of the Walt Disney Company:
The management wants to maximize profits. If this is thought to require keeping the Adventurers Club open, it will do so. If it is thought to require vivisecting Minnie Mouse, it will do that.
PAD would like the Adventurers Club to remain open. I would also like that, but that means absolutely nothing to Robert Iger, nor should it. I would LIKE it if PAD did exactly what I told him, and if he used his personal property in the ways I thought best, rather than as he wants to - but it's his property, not mine. Disney properties belong to the Walt Disney Company - not to Peter David, Kawherp or Jeff Frawley - and they will be used, demolished or restructured as the Walt Disney Company chooses.
Kawherp: I'll be more direct:
PAD wants three things. 1. He wants the Adventurers Club to remain open, because he has many pleasant memories of it. 2. He wants many people to write to Robert Iger so as to achieve number one. 3. He wants this thread to be devoted only to informed or uninformed (it makes no difference which) strategizing to achieve numbers one and two. My response is this: 1. He is free to feel as he wishes about the Adventurers Club. 2. He is free to solicit a write-in campaign, and to hope it will have effect. 3. I don't agree with PAD's third point, but my previous post is still up, so I have to admit his position hasn't been all that disturbing. 4. You are offended by "a lecture on basic economics" and wonder whether I "think you are clueless." Yes, I do think you (a very singular "you" - Kawherp) are clueless. I am not an economist, but I am shocked that you don't understand the only subject which is of interest to the administration of the Walt Disney Company:
The management wants to maximize profits. If this is thought to require keeping the Adventurers Club open, it will do so. If it is thought to require vivisecting Minnie Mouse, it will do that.
PAD would like the Adventurers Club to remain open. I would also like that, but that means absolutely nothing to Robert Iger, nor should it. I would LIKE it if PAD did exactly what I told him, and if he used his personal property in the ways I thought best, rather than as he wants to - but it's his property, not mine. Disney properties belong to the Walt Disney Company - not to Peter David, Kawherp or Jeff Frawley - and they will be used, demolished or restructured as the Walt Disney Company chooses.
(Sorry about the double post: My outrages are generally of a different nature than that.
PAD wants three things.
Five, if you include an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope and nice red uniforms.
Jefrey S. Frawley,
"I am not an economist,but I am shocked that you don't understand the only subject which is of interest to the administration of the Walt Disney Company: The Management wants to maximize profits"
Well, no kidding. his is the main inteest of any company worth it's salt - or worthy of staying in business. All PAD and others who are trying to help him are trying to do is let Disney know they don't think this is the best way to go about it. I can think of five cases off the top of my head where businesses who thought they were maximizing profits made decisions that instead hurt their business. One example is an NFL team, I forget who it was, had a fan favorite offensive lineman - one of the guy who blocks for the running back and protects the quarterback from those trying to tear his head off - who was one of the best in his profession and wanted a raise. This paled in comparison to the money earned by the quarterback, but the owner famously said fans came to see the quarterback so he could justify paying him $6 million a year, but as for the offensive lineman "nobody pays to see him" and he let him go though the price the guy was asking for was a fraction of what the quarterback made.
Well, the offensive lineman was let go and - surprise! - his cheaper replacement wasn't nearly as good and the quarterback was pummeled and eventually knocked out for the season. this resulted in lower TV ratings, less jerseys and other merchandise sold and a bad team that didn't sell as many tickets. In large part because the owner wanted to "maximize profits" by being cheap with someone he foolishly decided was unimportant. For a couple hundred grand, that owner lost a LOT more.
"PAD would like the Adventurers Club to stay open...but that means absolutely nothing to Robert Iger, nor should it."
Any business owner who does not place ANY value on what ANY consumer thinks of their product or decisions is asking to go out of business. It's called customer equity. Smart businesses try to satisfy all their customers. Notice I said TRY, since such a goal is almost impossible to achieve. So the next best thing is they VALUE all their customers and take their opinions - and potential lost revenue if they are not happy - into the equation.
Robert Iger is not a monarch. He answers to stockholders and, at the end of the day, consumers who decise whether or not to consume his company's products. Failure to take into consideration even one consumer's thoughts while making business decisions is just bad business, because such arrogance leads quickly to being out of touch with a lot of consumers, which is a guarantee of financial pain and hardship down the road.
Never been to Disney World. Sounds like it would be a cool place to check out if I ever did go.
How can we get the mass media to carry the story? Many people are not aware that AC is closing. Disney tried to bury the story by releasing the news on a Friday. And unless one reads the Orlando Sentinel or Disney related blogs, one wouldn't know of the upcoming closure of Pleasure Island.
There are millions of people who go to Disney without reading up on it in detail between trips to the mouse. They won't realize AC is gone until it is far too late to do anything.
So beyond petitions, we need press coverage.
Ideas?
Kawherp
Like Bill Myers, my interest in the Adventurers Club" has been piqued. I've only been to Disney World twice-- in 1984 on a family vacation, and the late 1990s to cover a story-- and wasn't aware of the place either time. But were I ever to return to Disney, and the Adventurers Club is still around, I'd want to stop by to check it out. Just out of curiosity.
Rick
If Disney executives come to believe PAD is giving them good financial advice, they will listen. If they don't, they'll write him off as one person among hundreds of millions of potential customers. Obviously, a large enough petition should give them something to think about, but his opinion as an individual is nothing that could ever have any bearing on their business decisions.
PAD does a very competent job of explaining why the Adventurers Club is important to him. He makes no argument at all that Disney executives should do as he says.
For those of you (like me) who didn't venture inside long enough to experience AC, here is a very good description of what it's like http://www.allearsnet.com/btp/faq_adv.htm
BOY do I wish we'd known what was inside when hubby and I peeked in on our honeymoon back in '95. We won't be back on property until spring of 09, and that may be too late.
Found some snail mail addresses, which are MUCH more effective than email. Email can be filtered.... polite snail mail that is sent in a tidy business envelope has to be opened by human hands!
Walt Disney World Guest Communications
PO Box 10040
Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830-0040
Mr. James A. Rasulo
Chairman
Walt Disney Parks & Resorts
500 South Buena Vista Street
Burbank, CA 91521-4873
Meg Crofton
President
The Walt Disney World Resort
PO Box 10040
Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830
Al Weiss
President
Worldwide Operations
Walt Disney Parks and Resorts
PO Box 10000
Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830
Kevin Lansberry, Vice President of Operations Downtown Disney
I can't seem to find a snail mail address for this gentleman, though he seems to be an important one to write to! Perhaps we can write to him "in care of" Walt Disney World Guest Communications PO Box 10040 Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830-0040
Kawherp,
Well, I write a weekly comic book column for the Philadelphia Daily News - one of the 50 biggest papers in the country - and I am going to mention PAD's efforts in my column next week and hopefully bring some awareness to the issue. Thank you for your efforts with the snail mail addresses and such. I will be sending out some missives by this weekend.
Jeffrey S. Frawley,
Despite your trying to appear as the oracle of business knowledge, the simple fact of PAD as a consumer expressing his enjoyment of the Adventurers Club is by itself a significant act. Whether it be politicical or consumer campaigns, one person who writes in a "snail mail" letter is worth AT LEAST 100 people, because that is what the company/politician belives they represent in people who care equally but didn't have the time, etc. to write in. Stamped, old-fashioned letters can have as dramatic an impact as the barrage of letters the judge received in "Miracle on 34th Street".
For the umpteenth time, Jeff, yes, we all get it, Disney is going to do what's in their best interest. PAD is simply hoping to convince them that closing the Adventurers Club is not. As for "he makes no argument at all that Disney executives should do as he says", the simple fact of expressing his concern/opinion as a consumer is an argument in and of itself. Seeing as how PAD was asking for help and suggestions to argue his case, why don't you help give him those - which, you know, is what he asked for on this thread - rather than continuing to lecture and feel like you are the smartest person in the room?
I haven't been to the Adventurer's Club, but I visited a similar-style restaurant in NYC, the Jeckell & Hyde Club. When I mentioned it to a college friend, she told me about the AC, and I've been eager to check it out ever since. Unfortunately, I can't get away from work, so a visit to Disney isn't in the near-future. It kills me that I won't have the chance to visit the AC, espcially since I'm 25 and probably in that target audience for the AC.
Frak.
Chris
Jerome Maida: PAD does a great job of explaining why he wants the AC to remain open, but makes no argument that Disney executives should be swayed by his preferences. I think he's more than intelligent enough to know that Disney is ruled by economic considerations, rather than sentiment. It's entirely possible that a large enough participation in this petition drive will convince the executives that it's a bad idea to close the AC - but that's entirely a matter of economics, not aesthetics or consideration of PAD's preferences. I would like it if PAD had stayed longer on some comics titles and shorter on others; Some of his storylines have not gone exactly as I would have preferred: So what? He was conducting his own business as he chose, and no one else can make his decisions for him. Disney, while its taste may be more crass than PAD's, does the same.
Did I miss where Peter posted the contents of his own letter to Disney? All I've seen is this post we're responding to-- an appeal to fans who read his blog and others who might have similar strong feelings about this place to let their voices be heard. At no point has Peter tried to claim "Disney executives should be persuaded by the fact that I proposed to my wife at this place." Instead, he has talked with his readers about his connection to this place-- and encouraged others to talk about their own memories-- in an attempt to persuade them that this is a special place and to build a larger, more persuasive coalition of consumers.
The idea of comparing a writer's tenure on a book and a business's decisions is particularly ludicrous-- a reader is not a customer the way a theme park visitor is. An artist isn't driven to "give the public what they want" the way a business is. So the idea that a reader should be able to dictate story content the way a customer should expect a business to listen to her complaints is simply absurd.
Besides what I've just discovered PAD is trying to do, an online community of Adventurers Club fans are currently working together to try to "save" the Club by convincing Disney what a prized, appreciated treasure it is, so they won't close its doors or perhaps would consider a relocation of the iconic interactive comedy club. An online petition already has over 5,300 signatures of support, the "Save the AdvClub" Facebook site has just shy 1,500 members, letter-writing and email campaigns are ongoing and the community is currently exploring various forms of advertisements to spread the word further and convince other fan to join in contacting the Walt Disney Company to express their disappointment of the Club's closing, with a request for reconsideration.
If you would be interested in helping to keep the Adventurers Club open, please visit the following sites to see how you can do your part:
http://www.kungalooshforever.com/ (letter writing campaign)
http://www.savetheclub.blogspot.com/ (general information and helpful links)
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=17614776169 (Facebook site)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Adventurers_Club/ (Yahoo Group)
KUNGALOOSH!
I am so happy to read this post!
I'm running www.kungalooshforever.com -- the website of the letter-writing campaign to save Disney's Adventurer's club.
To make writing in easier, I've posted mailing labels with the executives' addresses printed on them.
We also had a similar idea to the maps that PAD came up with -- we've been sending in masks as a tribute to the mask room.
Help us save this hidden gem!
REMOVED FOR BEING OFF-TOPIC. FOR THE LEARNING IMPAIRED, THE TOPIC IS "SAVE THE ADVENTURERS CLUB." PERIOD.
FURTHER OFF-TOPIC POSTS WILL BE DELETED COMPLETELY.
One suggestion to help spread the word:
Perhaps someone with some XP with social networking sites such as Facebook or Myspace could make a page/ group what have you for this cause.
Just my 2 cents
I love the Adventurer's Club. It has been my favorite part of Disney World since I first experienced it in 1993. Of all the "declining by degrees" changes WDW has made over the past two decades, this is the worst. I hate it. But, knowing me, I will probably go back to WDW anyway. And they can get away with it just because a lot of people are weak like me.... I've been obsessed with Disney World since my parents first took me to the Magic Kingdom in 1977. My son is only four, and he's been there on four separate vacations already. I'll probably go back every year for the rest of my life. But I will always be sad about losing the Adventurer's Club.
The Adventurers Club has been my favorite part of Disney World since I first experienced it, in 1993. Of all the "declining by degrees" changes WDW has made over the past two decades, this is the worst. I hate it. But, knowing me, I will probably go back to WDW anyway. And they can get away with it just because a lot of people are weak like me.... I've been obsessed with Disney World since my parents first took me to the Magic Kingdom in 1977. My son is only four, and he's been there on four separate vacations already. I'll probably go back every year for the rest of my life. But I will always be sad about losing the Adventurers Club.
I read your engagement story and it made my heart sing!! Good for you!
As for AC, it was my haven and respite when I was down-in-the-dumps working as a little wage-slave for the Mouse. We went weekly, sometimes twice a week. As a costume assistant, I knew the actors well and they reveled in being able to play with me when I came into the Club.
I signed every petition I could find. And I am hoping to make one last trip down before the doors close forever.
I don't know what a few thousand of us Loyal Adventurers can do to change the mind of a multi-billion dollar international company, but really, Disney has made a great career of breaking my heart. This is just one more reason for me not to vacation there, not to bring my kids there, not to let them come to love and appreciate something that won't be there the next time they visit.
I am all for making money and being successful and profitable, but when something ain't broke, why screw with it?
Also, its not a plastic monkey's head, it's a Yakoose, or at least it was in 2003.
We'll always have our fellow Adventurers, right?
KUNGALOOSH my friends!
Also, its not a plastic monkey's head, it's a Yakoose, or at least it was in 2003.
First there was a monkey's head, and later they did the yakoose. I have both.
PAD
As the topic is "'Save the Adventurers Club" Period," I assume it would be peachy to write along the lines of "The Adventurers Club should not be saved, because..." (very much on point with the topic) but not (apparently) "Trying to save the Adventurers Club is pointless because..."
Here goes - extremely much on point:
I'd like the Adventurers Club to be saved. Oh, my, it would be nice if it were! Nonetheless, I don't think Mr. Iger has any reason to care what I want. Oh, well - too bad.
More seriously, good luck with the petition. I hope it works, but do not think the fact that PAD wants the Adventurers Club to remain open is in any way persuasive that it should or will. I have not been to any Disney theme park since early adolescence, so I am not particularly familiar with the Adventurers Club, will (would?) not be much affected by its closing, and will not be participating in any petition on its behalf.
Jeffrey S. Frawley,
you do realize you keep repeating the same points over and over, are not advancing the discussion and going against our host's wishes, right?
PAD,
I am going to get snail mail stamps and should have a couple letters sent out by the end of the weekend.
I dunno if this link has been posted yet, but I did not think I saw it:
Frank,
That's deliberate on PAD's part, to make sure that the post stays at the top of the reading list.
TWL
This is playing dirty pool but desperate times...are there any minority characters that are integral part of the Club? Because if Disney's problems with THE FROG PRINCESS are any indication, they are terrified of anything that might bring them bad racial publicity. If such a character exists it might yield fruit to mount a campaign to save them and accuse Disney of being all to willing to eliminate their only Eskimo character or whatever.
As long as Jeffrey's post is still up: You're validating Peter's actions by indulging in what you're criticizing him for doing. So you're holding him to a standard you feel free to transgress to a more severe degree. You're a hypocrite.
You say Disney has no reason to care about Peter's petition to act on it. Well, no one cares about what you want. Since your complaints aren't actionable, the case still has yet to be made that even you care about what you want.
The 80/20 rule implies that out of a set of options for any decisions, the outcome of the best option will be perhaps 4 or 5 or more times more beneficial than the next best option. But that best option isn't apparent on even a formal review, because if spotting the best option were, we'd be able to codify it, and raise the next generation to be all geniuses.
The only virtue of shutting down any discussion for a course of action to save the Adventurers Club, which is the only thing that would seem to satisfy you, would be to retard wisdom. Going by what you show of yourself to anyone here, that's your legacy. Hopefully, you've got a cure for cancer or something like that standing by, because retarding wisdom is kind of crappy as far as legacies go.
Peter:
In my capacity as Editor-In-Chief: News of The Free Choice e-zine, I have posted an article about your endeavor to save the Adventurers' Club.
Hope this helps.
www.thefreechoice.info
The Sunday Funnies: July 20th, 2008
Hey, here's an idea to really make a pile of mail in their offices that they'd notice.
Everybody have a Dollar Tree or a like store in your area? They're the ones where everything in it is just $1. The ones near me always have these Beanie Babies knock offs that come in various animal forms including monkeys, zebras and other such fantasy beasts dragons. And they only cost a buck.
Buy one or something like it that connects in some way to the Adventurers Club, tape an index card to it with a polite note to keep the AC, package it properly and neatly at your local post office (you should use one of their bubble wrap envelopes rather than a box as it's cheaper and less likely to be denied delivery) and send it in.
When I saw the things sitting in the store the other day it started me thinking that it's usually the really odd ideas like that which are always the ones you hear about getting the most notice. Everybody sends letters in, but it's the things that are a little bit off the wall that seem to generate buzz and, if word leaks out to the local media when the mail starts to pile up, national media notice.
It may run you three to five dollars, but I would think that a lot of AC diehards would find that a small price to pay.
I mentioned Peter's quest in my column today. It's on www.philly.com in a column dominated by my review of "Ms. Marvel".
Well I assume you are more familiar with Jim Hill now that your interview is his feature article today, right? I'm glad two of my favorite bloggers have forged this alliance. Thank you for your efforts to save the Adventurers Club!
As the one who inadvertently kicked off any furor against Jim Hill by posting his links up above, I'm glad peace has been made, especially as I suspect the two (PAD and Jim) are likely kindred spirits.
Jerry Colvin,
Did you mean this review and Q&A from mid-June?
http://fantasybookcritic.blogspot.com/2008/06/tigerheart-by-peter-david-wbonus-q.html
Another way someone is trying to spread the word:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180268745025
Alan Coil,
No, I was talking about the jimhillmedia.com website that PAD has now linked to near the top of his main page. From yesterday (July 22).
I just heard the news about Pleasure Island and the Adventurer's Club last night when I visited allearsnet.com for the first time in a while. My girlfriend and I have been going to WDW about once a year since 2002, and we always make a stop at the Adventurer's Club. Disney likes to talk about "the magic", but as far as I'm concerned the AC was/is the only place at Downtown Disney where the magic could be found. Contrary to Disney's official press release, I don't think any problems with Downtown Disney stemmed from any unavailability of merchandise.
I actually performed in the radio show skit. In fact it was the only time I had witnessed that particular skit, as most times I've been there the first library show was the Balderdash Cup competition. (I'm not talking about the pledge drive sketch which usually came after the Balderdash Cup.) I was solicited, quite against my will, to come on the stage and help with the sound effects. It was a lot of fun, although I think my girlfriend had more fun in that instance.
Without the presence of the AC I would not find much reason to visit Downtown Disney at all.
Um...on your main page, it has the post date as September 26, 2008, with the next post as September 27.
That's actually deliberate, Don -- he munged the date in order to keep those two posts at the top of the page.
TWL
---I'm a bit late to the party, but I think a great way to show the love for the AC is to embrace the experience, hence my letter below---
Mr. Iger,
As I lay here in this ramshackle Botswana field hospital, up on blocks to keep it from the muddy waters of the Okavango River, I was taken aback at the news that my beloved Adventure’s Club is under the threat of dissolution. Now being a man of some stature and resolve, please note that it is hard for me to say when this word reached me, via dirigible mail, I was seen to black out. I even struck my head on my beloved Victrola on the way down, shattering my only pressing of Mendelssohn‘s String Quartet No. 2 in A minor, Op. 13. Although outside of our confidence, I blamed this episode on the green-spotted fever of which I am currently afflicted.
Returning to the grave matter at hand, allow me please to petition you to save my beloved Adventure’s Club with a story from my youth. When I was a sprightly lad, the allure of the club and the secrets that it held became too strong to resist. Therefore, with the unwitting aid of my elder brother, who as we speak is sailing round the horn of Africa in a quest to reach Madagascar before a band of villainous poachers descends on that untamed wilderness, I endeavored to penetrate its venerated threshold well before my age would have granted me access. Once inside, I am not ashamed to say, that any loose observation of my wide eyes and eager smile would have given up the game for me. Although now, with the clarity of retrospect, I can all but be certain that my small trespass was fully apparent, and that both the staff and patrons were indulging me as I went on my own little adventure.
I must go now, as human-shaped shadows are looming against the thick mosquito netting around my bed, and I image that another session of bleeding is imminent. I can only hope that both the Club and I will be reunited in this life, rather then the next.
KUNGALOOSH,
Seth Robison, Esq.
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I'm going to guess the four posts immediately above have relatively little to do with saving the grealy beloved Adventurers Club.
Oh, this shocking thing is giving me palpitations.
Hey, Peter,
What you requested ... some thoughts about my times in the Adventurer's Club! You know the folks at Cheers, in the bar almost every night, well known, friends?
For a couple of years, that was me. I was in the Club every night. I always had my membership badge, my carafe of Bits of Biffle, and my Tiki Mug. The Adventurer's Club was, to a great extent, my home.
I remember one night, years ago, when I made the trek from Downtown Orlando to Pleasure Island in the middle of the extended coverage area of a hurricane, still on time to make it in for the Balderdash Cup. Samantha Sterling made a comment about the weather, and said "I'm here, Jon Batchelor is here, we're gonna have a party!"
Though in more recent years I have cut back on my Adventurer's Club attendance a bit (only going a few times a year, rather than a few times a week), it was still one of my favorite things at Walt Disney World.
It is perhaps the most unique entertainment venue in all of America. It is certainly the most Disney thing in all of the West Side / PI / Disney Marketplace area.
I have made many wonderful friends at the AC, I have learned many fun songs (including all of the Colonel's mistaken glee leadings when he should have been singing the All Purpose Club Theme Song), and I have met two very fun and interesting people who are probably known on this blog, though admittedly they are only the lightest of acquaintances, rather than actual friends ... Peter David and JMS of B5 fame. (Though I doubt either of them would remember me at all.)
My memories will stay very fresh, assisted by the approximately 70 hours of video tape footage I have taped in the club, but I will greatly mourn the loss of the Club ... and especially the waste of replacing it with more generic dining and shopping that could be found anywhere in the country.
For the person who mentioned Jeckle and Hyde's, I probably ought to mention the fact that it was created by one of the cast members of the Adventurer's Club who made the decision to move on, but wanted to do something similar in New York when he did so. The person in question, by the name of Darren (Darrin?) was slightly before my time, since I only saw him a single time before he left, but J&H certainly ought to give some feeling of what the AC is about.
Yes, as somebody keeps harping, Disney does what it thinks will make money. Sometimes they are wrong. Sometimes changes lose more money than they make. Anybody who will spend less money at Disney because of this bonehead decision is smart to contact Disney management, and let them know.
As for me, for the last 10 to 15 years, I have seen a continual trend by Disney to cut back everywhere they can. To make everything more and more like everywhere else in the world. To remove every trace of Disney magic that they feel they can, and still keep the public coming in. For me, they have gone too far.
I do not ask anybody else to join me ... this is a personal issue for me. But when the Adventurer's Club closes down, I boycott Disney. I will not spend another cent, knowingly, for the Disney coffers. No more visits to Disney theme parks. No more going to Disney films. No more buying of any sort of Disney Souvenirs. They lose all my business unless and until the AC is recreated in -roughly- the same form and once again open to the public.
Eventually, the number of people taking a similar stance in regards to the continued bungling of the Disney brand for immediate excess profit at the expense of the long-term repeat business will bring an end to this ... though I have to admit, it is probably still 10 or 20 years away.
So a final few favorites from the Club, and I'll end this overly long post!
Fave Specialty Container: The brown, yellow and green Tiki Mugs
Fave Character: Otis Wren as played by Doug Mackey (19?? - 1995 in the role)
Fave Library Show: The Hoopla!
Fave Yakoose Speech: I sing! I dance! I do aerobics!
Fave Song by the Colonel: Drop Your Drawers
Oh, and one other aside ... Leslie Carrara, the voice behind the new Sesame Street star, Abby Cadabby used to perform at the Adventurer's Club as our own Dusty Cabinets, one of the Club's French maids.
Hey, Evil Twin... I read your piece on this, and I'm proud of you for the effort, even though I've never been to a Disney resort anywhere on the planet and have no idea of what the Adventurer's Club is like, apart from the pix Jim Hill had in his article. Looks cool, though. Sort of a family friendly version of the Explorer's Club in Manhattan, another place I've never been...
Anyway, good on you, dude. Keep on chooglin'.
Miles
I am among those who is down about the loss of a favorite home-away-from-home. I'm not ready to boycott Disney altogether, but they certainly will hear from me again when I am down there.
For those who have never been to the Adventurer's Club, pictures speak louder than words. If you do a search on Google on "Disney adventurer's club" you will inevitably be pointed towards a popular video site where there are many of the club. A personal favorite of mine is the cast's rendition of the Halloween carol "Walking Dead"
The outcome is disappointing, but hardly unexpected. As my suggestion that Disney is run along capitalist lines has met with such disbelief, perhaps the situation can be summed up in this way:
What Peter David wants is of minimal interest to the Walt Disney Company. It's just gone ahead and done what it wanted without consulting him.
This is very belated, but I must disagree with the poster who saw no comparison between an artist (in this case PAD) and a corporation conducting personal business as each sees fit, rather than letting consumers decide for them. In each case, an unpopular decision would have a monetary cost. The Walt Disney Company is in business because it has been right about consumer behavior often enough not to go broke. PAD's longevity on a number of comics titles was far less a matter of his determination to stay on them than it was of what he produced being pleasing to the readers - who continued to pay money for titles he wrote. He can well see personal integrity, artistic expression or great talent in what he does for a living: That would be quite accurate. If the identical work had not found a paying audience, it would have been dismissed. Capitalism again raises its hideous face.
