PeterDavid.net

How about good old Zak Adama? Been dead since before the series started. Former lover of Starbuck, and we've seen how she goes for the hidden Cylons. Also, didn't Lee just do the scene with his Dad where he asked how they'd react if Zak came back, alive, but a Cylon?

Not Zak... if the comic books are to be treated as canonical, they kinda did that one already. On the other hand, they did establish the precedent, so...

My money has always been on Dirk Benedict showing up as the Cylon leader. It looks less likely, but I'm going to stick by it for now.

I actually did consider Zak, but decided to limit dead candidates to people who have actually been alive, at least for a while, since the series began.

PAD

Couple points, Pete:

1. Re: Gina Six shooting Cane, the 7 known Cylons seem to be unaware of who the others are, so Gina Six shooting her make sense.

2. If Roslin was a Cylon she wouldn't have had cancer in the first place. Plus, she's prophesied to die before reaching Earth.

3. If you look at the Last Supper pic the best approximation is that Lee is in the Judas position. Also, the webisodes before Razor ended with Dural (PR Cylon) telling Adama that he arranged for Lee to be there for the signing, which is a really weird way to end the webisodes unless that bit of info was really import.

My money is on Lee being the last Cylon.

"TOM ZAREK—Odds: 1-1—FOR: It doesn’t get more metatextual than having the original Apollo, Richard Hatch, turn out to be the Number One Cylon. Prominent enough for everyone to go “Him?!?” And he’s missing from the big “Last Supper” picture, in which a chalice sitting next to an empty chair may symbolize that the missing Cylon isn’t represented in the portrait."

FWIW, Ron Moore has implied heavily that the final Cylon is someone not in that picture. If we believe him.

Number Six isn't shielding Baltar from "a nuclear blast" she's shielding him from the shattering windows in his house. We've been over this since the Miniseries years ago. Baltar's house isn't *near* the nuclear explosion, he's miles away from the blast. People survived on the outskirts of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and such.

We don't know that these final five Cylons have the same "plan" as the others. They might not want to cooperate with the other Cylons. The other Cylons don't even know who the final five are! So some of the "doesn't make sense because [Cylon] tried to kill them" doesn't necessarily not make sense! Did that make sense?

*rubs forehead*

Let's just say I'm glad they dropped the "They have a plan" from the opening since it's been increasingly clear that the Cylons have as much of a plan as a Robin Williams improv performance.

Personally, I find BSG really frustrating. Individual eps, and the characters and acting are very good. But the universe setup and background just doesn't make any sense, particularly the Cylons.

They have exactly 12 humanoid models, which vary substantially in gender (btw, it's also odd that there are either only 4 or 5 female models rather than 6 for parity) and physiotype. If you can produce 12 that different, you can produce any number of different models.

But 7 of the models don't even know what 5 of the models look like. Huh? And none of the 4/5 were in any sort of critical position; Tigh's closest, but he was a washed-up XO on a about to be mothballed ship. Anders was a Pyramid star, but that doesn't influence or learn policy or military info. The other two were low level out of the way grunts.

And don't even get me started on the Cylons needing "Wuv. Twue Wuv" to "reproduce". Designing a racial model that can't reproduce/manufacture new ones? That's just stupid.

What if the remaining unrevealed cylon isn't the leader? Suppose the leader is one we already know?

What if the remaining unrevealed cylon isn't the leader? Suppose the leader is one we already know?

I was hoping that they'd do the stunt casting and use Jonathan Frakes as the "Number One" Cylon.

Tom Zarek was my number one choice too.

But after reading your list.. Agathon my number one choice now! Lawless's character was apologizing for the hell they put him thru on Earth. Hera isn't the miracle baby like everyone thought she was. The Chief's baby is the miracle baby. And it would cover up the glitch you mentioned. Against.. he's in the picture.

Wow!

My money’s always been on Billy Keikeya being a Cyclon. Don’t know why, I just always thought it would be a good curve and a way to bring him back to the show.

I’m still thinking the show jumped the shark a bit between the Saul Tigh, Chief, Sam Anders and Tory Foster being exposed as the four of the final five. That and the use of All Along the Watchtower in that particular episode really were low points in the series as well as the reappearance of Kara Thrace.

The show hasn’t gone off the rails as badly as the 4400 did but, they really took a bad turn with those decisions.

Oh wait, I just realized who the final Cylon is... of course it’s f*#@in’ Locutus of Borg.

Its George Bush, but its not revealed until they reach Earth.

"ADMIRAL CANE — AGAINST: Why would Six murder her?"

Probably because Cane let the crew rape and beat her repeatedly. A few months of that will put anyone in a murderin' mood.

I didn't have a problem with Starbuck coming back--even at the time I thought it was pretty heavily forecast that her death wouldn't be permanent. I did think Tyrol and, especially, Tigh being Cylons was pretty iffy, though--what makes the characters so appealing is their frailty as human beings.

The one thing I'm pretty certain of is that neither Baltar nor Starbuck will be the last Cylon (I also don't think it'll be an Adama, but if it's Adama pere, I really think the show will have jumped the shark). On the other hand, I think either Baltar or Starbuck will be the "angel" that the Razor Hybrid prophesied would lead the Cylons to the promised land. Most likely Starbuck, since Leoben told her her destiny was to deliver his soul unto God, and since that would fit with the Hybrid's other statement about Starbuck being the harbinger of the apocalypse.

Slightly off topic (only by an hour!), but did you see the Sarah Jane Adventures?

#15-damn, I had money on it taking less than 10 comments.

I like the Sarah Jane Adventures, but I do wonder at the wisdom of putting something that's openly a kids' show (as opposed to Doctor Who, which is a family show) on primetime Friday nights. Still, if Sci Fi is willing to give SJA that sort of prominence, I guess it means that the Who franchise is being pretty successful for them, which can only be a good thing.

"I like the Sarah Jane Adventures, but I do wonder at the wisdom of putting something that's openly a kids' show (as opposed to Doctor Who, which is a family show) on primetime Friday nights. Still, if Sci Fi is willing to give SJA that sort of prominence, I guess it means that the Who franchise is being pretty successful for them, which can only be a good thing."

It's pretty obvious to me why Sci Fi put on Sara Jane- Someone realized how badly they missed the bus by not being the American outlet for TORCHWOOD. Seems like TORCHWOOD is a hit for BBC America. In case no one's noticed, BBC America is
running terrific genre shows like JEKYLL, HEX, and the coming 2nd season of ROBIN HOOD. You gotta love reruns of Doctor Who and The Avengers, too. All of this while the Sci Fi Channel shows
an endless drone of poorly made movies about asteroids and giant squids. The SARA JANE ADVENTURES actually seem like harmless fun.

Now if someone would just find a suitable home for BLOOD TIES, an entertaining Canadian vampire
show based on Tanya Huff's novels that no one saw on Lifetime. Think Moonlight, but more fun.

As for the last Cylon, I just hope that BSG doesn't beat us to death with whole The Truth Will Be Revealed crap. This show is just too good for that. There's too many interesting things to be done with these characters.

Now if I could just figure out where that frakking
music is coming from....

I am leaning toward the unrevealed Cylon being the President. I do not think that she has any children.

If not her, then Bob Dylan.

Here is my wacky out there theory:

Cain:
Why: Admiral of the fleet is a nice place to be if you want to help insure your invasion of Caprica goes smoothly.

BUT you say we saw her get shot and her body blasted off into space.

(in Luthor voice) WRONG!
We saw an extreme close up of a gun being fired towards the camera and later A body being blasted off into space. The question of bodies and cylons in my opinion is academic.

If I remember correctly in one of the recent quick previews of this last season we are shown a very brief scene of one of the 6 models aghast at some revelation of someone who means a lot to her.

Moore has done the “What what what! but isn’t she dead” shtick before. Remember the Star Trek Next Gen Eps he wrote that had the return of Denise Crosby as Sela? Huh… a star fleet officer ‘comes back’ in a manner of speaking as one of the good guys main threats.

Ultimately my money is on Roslin but I’ll just say I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Moore and folk pulled Cain out of their hats.

Here is my wacky out there theory:

Cain:
Why: Admiral of the fleet is a nice place to be if you want to help insure your invasion of Caprica goes smoothly.

BUT you say we saw her get shot and her body blasted off into space.

(in Luthor voice) WRONG!
We saw an extreme close up of a gun being fired towards the camera and later A body being blasted off into space. The question of bodies and cylons in my opinion is academic.

If I remember correctly in one of the recent quick previews of this last season we are shown a very brief scene of one of the 6 models aghast at some revelation of someone who means a lot to her.

Moore has done the “What what what! but isn’t she dead” shtick before. Remember the Star Trek Next Gen Eps he wrote that had the return of Denise Crosby as Sela? Huh… a star fleet officer ‘comes back’ in a manner of speaking as one of the good guys main threats.

Ultimately my money is on Roslin but I’ll just say I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Moore and folk pulled Cain out of their hats.

Here is my wacky out there theory:

Cain:
Why: Admiral of the fleet is a nice place to be if you want to help insure your invasion of Caprica goes smoothly.

BUT you say we saw her get shot and her body blasted off into space.

(in Luthor voice) WRONG!
We saw an extreme close up of a gun being fired towards the camera and later A body being blasted off into space. The question of bodies and cylons in my opinion is academic.

If I remember correctly in one of the recent quick previews of this last season we are shown a very brief scene of one of the 6 models aghast at some revelation of someone who means a lot to her.

Moore has done the “What what what! but isn’t she dead” shtick before. Remember the Star Trek Next Gen Eps he wrote that had the return of Denise Crosby as Sela? Huh… a star fleet officer ‘comes back’ in a manner of speaking as one of the good guys main threats.

Ultimately my money is on Roslin but I’ll just say I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Moore and folk pulled Cain out of their hats.

My appologies for the multi posts. stupid fracking buggy comcast.. I blame both the cylons AND the Skrulls.

People who think Three's apologizing to one of the final five was a clue... Could be the one she saw was Tigh. I'd say pulling out an eye is something to be sorry about.

I thought it was interesting that the four known ones were involved with the resistance on New Caprica.

And as for my guess... I'm going to have to go with Pactrick McGoohan. That would kick arse. Ar maybe another Patrick... Macnee, anyone?

1:50 - All of them. They're all cylons. The only real human left is Starbuck, and the Cylons have hatched this elaborate plan solely to find Earth through her.

Loving the new season so far. I don't think it will be Gaius/President/Adama, as if any of them are not human it hurts a lot of the human moral choices they had to make.

I like the theory of it being Richard Hatch. I noticed this episode mentioned Zarek a few times. Of course the camera did all pan and linger on a photo of Zach Adama...

On a slightly off topic note, was it just me or did the video and set quality seem slightly stepped down? The "texture" of the video seemed slightly like Dr. Who/ect

I just want the show to explain Baltar's visions before it ends. If they explain it as him being the last Cylon, fine, if they explain it some other way, that's fine too.

But it can't be left dangling. They've spent too many years dancing around whether he's crazy, has a chip in his head, or God is talking to him. There has to be some kind of definitive answer or I'll be very unsatisfied.

I'm a late-comer to the show. We watched the mini-series through Season 3 last summer. We knew just enough to know that some major characters were actually Cylon. We thought Baltar was one since the first episode because of the very reason you mention: no way that house comes down around his ears and still live. Plus, his "program" of #6 - and how of himself - would add up nicely.

Zarek also makes sense to me, and we've wondered off and on. It's just one of those disconnects that is hard to get around: the old Apollo a new Cylon? Would they really do that?

Adama (take your pick of which one). Leobon (aka Number 2) whispered early on that Adama was a Cylon. Being portrayed as a victim, he never lied. It was actually one of the things I liked about the Cylons in the early part of the series. Having them always tell the truth when questioned gave them a certain high ground (of course, deceiving people about your identity kind of negates that). The question was always "Which Adama?" We generally discounted Bill Adama as being too old. Tigh's revelation changed that, of course. Still, having Bill Adama being a Cylon would just be too much, I think. Lee? We doubted it, but always kept it in the back of our head. Why not make the hero a bridge between worlds? Still we saw it as highly unlikely. Zak? Honestly we had forgotten about him. I kinda like the idea. However, he's been gone a while and I'm not sure it would pack the audience punch.

I'm beginning to think it will be one of Baltar's flunkies. They are guiding him towards "the one God", and they are protecting him the same way Six did.

I'm not sure that coming back from the dead is likely for the final five cylons.

So far it seems that these final five are different from the other cylons. I think there is only one of each model. Before last night that was just a general impression that I had, but I think last night's episode nearly confirmed it. The regular models were talking about the possibility that the final five were in the human fleet. They seem to be talking about them as individuals, not as groups. If they were groups, then they could be in the fleet and still be somewhere else, so being in the fleet wouldn't be such a big deal.

Being singular models something would have to be different about how the final five resurrect. We've seen that the way the regular cylons do it is with a big resurrection ship. That ship has to be relatively close to the dying cylon, that's why one was following the fleet around in the first season. So either the final five have their own ship that was not used for decades until Baltaar died (or Starbuck or Billy or whoever) or there are models of the final five waiting to be used on the resurrection ship and the regular cylons haven't noticed them.

Both of these things seem less than likely to me. I get the impression that the final five were created to be as human as possible. They think they're human (without going crazy when they find out like Boomer did), they age normally, and they are each unique. That could imply that they have limited life spans and no resurrection.

Well, after last night’s episode I can heartily say it seems they took a step back from the abyss. If only because the story had the characters acting true to their established behavior and then letting the story take shape around that.

Jason brings a good point that always seemed to stick with me as well - namely, the ‘original programmers’ as it were did too good a job with the original five models.

The original five models were programmed too closely to mimic human behavior warts and all. After witnessing what they had wrought, the programmers decided to pull back a little for preservation and the betterment of the species.

The thrust of the show has always been that the Cylons are the inheritors of man, without man’s flaws of character.

The episode last night went a long way towards reinforcing that very point as we begin to see deeper cracks forming among the Cylon society.

In a way, the Cavil model is mimicking the Cylons human creators in his actions against the Raiders. Well, we’re on a roller-coaster ride to the finish so I imagine it will all come out in a few weeks.

How about the attorney character introduced last season, Lampkin? I don't see what it adds the show per see, but he does like to study human nature, and he is notable enough to be a suspect.

So here is my theory (I expect someone somewhere has said this before, but it is original as far as I know).
As has been indicated many times, they are in a universe where history is repeating ("All this has happened before"). I believe that the final five are the Cylons that had survived and evolved from the previous round, millenniums earlier (explaining how Ty could have been a Cylon, even if he was a human during the 'first' Cylon war, and also explaining how the Cylon's from this incarnation evolved so quickly).
So when the Zarek is revealed as the last of the final five, he will explain how he modeled himself after (or actually was) the Starbuck from the previous round, thus making the original series both canon and prequel to the current series.
Would that not be cool?

Nick,

It is my impression that things repeat themselves, but not all that exactly. My take on it is that the repetition is more thematic than literal. Different people in different roles, but the same (general) plot exploring the same themes. Personally, I think that we're seeing a re-telling of a war amongst the gods of Kobal from several thousand years ago.

Another thought: We now know that the model number of the seven cylons in the "main" cylon group: 1 (Cavil) , 2 (Lioben), 3 (D'anna), 4 (Simon), 5 (Doral), 6 (Caprica), & 8 (Sharon). This means that the Final Five are 7, 9, 10, 11, & 12. It argues against them being a leftover from long-ago cylon race. At least, it argues against the Final Five being that and the Significant Seven being new. If they were ancient, I'd say they all had to be ancient, but I think it's clear that the Seven don't have any memery of events before the First Cylon war forty-odd years ago (at the earliest). If they were older, then their entire memories would have had to have been wiped.

Final thought: having looked at last night's episode, I'm now certain that Cavil know a s***load about the Final Five that he's not telling anyone and is desparite to conceal. He engineered the boxing of the 3s to keep that secret and now he's trying to wipe out any representives of the Final Five in the Fleet. I'd like to hear what he'd say if he was hooked up to that weird pain inducer they used on Baltar.

I'm guessing Tigh is Starbuck's real father, making her the first hybrid, whick sort of explains the dreams.

I think a big flaw in a lot of this speculation (as much as I enjoy it) is the assumption that the Final Five have the same Kill All Humans agenda as the Nuke Caprica crowd.

I don't think they do, and I think that's the reason for the "I'm Sorry..."

I agree with Keith. I think that the original programmers had a plan, but it's not what the Seven think it is.

Perhaps the programmers decided after the first war that they needed to reset the humans, so they made the seven to destroy them and the final five to drive them back to Earth. Once that is completed, maybe the Cylons will have all fulfilled their function and have to go away somehow.

It may also be that the 1s have some inkling of this plan, but liked their version of "God's will" better.

I can see it now: After all the fuss & commotion, the scene finally comes up to introduce the last of the Final Five Cylons, David Hasselhoff walks on screen and a resounding cracking noise is heard around the world as the minds of BSG fans shatter.

Here's a theory I'm surprised I haven't seen floated before:

Could someone be born human, and then become a Cylon?

Maybe the resurrection technology can work on humans by transplanting them into cylon bodies. That might also explain the hybrids (hybrids of what?) that control the base stars.

"David Hasselhoff walks on screen and a resounding cracking noise is heard around the world as the minds of BSG fans shatter."

Worse. The final cylon is Britney Spears.

Just another random thought: It's highly unlikely that Anders fought on Caprica for so long without a Centurion getting at least as good of a glimpse of him as they got when he was in the cockpit. So someone had to flip to switch and turn on the music and make things change.

So, depending on how mystical we end up getting, the person best in the position to flip that switch so that everyone on the same ship hears it, and who isn't in The Last Supper photo, is Dualla. There's a distince matriarchal turn in the Cylons during the last episode as well.

Zarek and Lee, same cylon aged by years.

Keith M. wrote: It's highly unlikely that Anders fought on Caprica for so long without a Centurion getting at least as good of a glimpse of him as they got when he was in the cockpit. So someone had to flip to switch and turn on the music and make things change.

That's why they were lobotomizing the raiders. The raiders developed "higher brain functions" and recognized Anders as one of the final 5, thus calling off the attack against the will of the human cylons. Six thinks that was great, Dean Stockwell -- not so much. But it was the Raiders' growth, that "jump" in cognition, that (a) first recognized Anders in the season opener and (b) generated the plot for last night's episode.

AD

I can't believe you missed this one.

Dr. Cottle—Odds: 10-1
For: Cylons can connect to a network by sticking a fiber optic wire up their arms and their spines light up when having hot sex. Yet they expect us to believe that the ships senior medical officer can't detect any medical difference between a Human and a Cylon? Cottle being a Cylon would fill a few plot holes. He is also in a position to get lots of intel. Not to mention access and supervision of any Cylon Human Hybrids that pop out. He has also taken his oath to do no harm to include Cylon patients as well as Humans.
AGAINST: Not as sexy a reveal as one of the main cast.

What about that new girl introduced in Razor? You mean they go to all that effort to introduce someone new and then never mention her again?

"Designing a racial model that can't reproduce/manufacture new ones?"

Ah, but they're effectively immortal. If their bodies start wearing out, they can just suicide and download into new bodies. It's almost like asexual reproduction. The advantage of sexual reproduction is that it introduces variety and diversity into the process...but it also introduces an element of volatility that the creators of the Cylons may have wanted to limit.

As for who's the final Cylon...I think the one thing we CAN be sure of is that the Cylons can't sexually reproduce with one another. Otherwise the basestars would have some all-Cylon babies on them by now, given how obsessed the Cylons seem to be with baby Hera et al. So that lets out Helo and Cally pretty thoroughly, methinks.

It seems to me ther are 2 big reveals coming
the final cylon
and the cylon"god"
I dont think they are one and the same.

Damn. Cottle. You're right. Went right past me. Good candidate.

PAD

I like the Cottle theory too.

I'm still convinced Deanna's apology was meant for Tigh, and I thought so as soon as I saw that scene.

I'm betting Baltar is the Cylon. How ironic would it be that this hedonistic, selfish coward's been avoiding death all this time, only to find that death doesn't mean much more to him than a bad dream?

Howzabout a new,as yet unnamed character to be played by Dirk Benedict?

I can't imagine Dirk Benedict having anything to do with the show. He's said some extremely negative things about the show and especially about the new Starbuck.

It has to be ZAREK.

It's the only way the Leoben statement "Adama is a cylon" could make sense. :p Apollo (the first one, Richard Hatch) was an Adama.

I disagree on several of these:

Zarek: doesn't work dramatically. Zarek's already a relatively one-dimensional villain, at least by the standards of this show. So I think he fails the "too obvious" test by almost as much as Starbuck.

Starbuck: that said, there is *so* much evidence for it being her that I'm tempted to believe it really is. It's almost a double-think at this point -- it's so obvious that she *can't* be, because it's so obvious that she is, that she probably is.

Lee: they keep saying that each Cylon has "always" been a Cylon. The implication to me is that they aren't replacing real people, but were added into human society, and the records faked to document their existence. If that's true, it *can't* be Lee and not Bill, since Bill has known him since birth.

Bill: actually, I don't think it's so preposterous. What we're seeing from the newly-revealed Cylons is that they don't remember being Cylons, and they're honestly terrified about the possibility that they might suddenly be compelled to support the Cylons. Since we don't really know what the Cylon endgame is (indeed, there is lots of evidence that most of the Cylons don't know what their "plan" is), I don't think we can rule out the possibility that he simply doesn't know, and that he's actually following that mysterious plan.

Fair enough, though apparantly he has mellowed about it. How about Dualla? She married Lee, and using the "Leoban said" logic, she would be an Adama.

As I watched the series, I've allowed myself alot of speculation on where BSG is going. I've had to change my views as the storyline progressed. So here's my current theory.

I honestly don't know who the 12th is, but I remain certain that the 12 represent the 12 Lords of Kobol, who in turn are an almalgam of Greco-Roman myth. Perhaps the 12 are clones of the Lords, the Lords being superhuman.

This brings up something else, if there are 12 colonies reprentive of the 12 Lords, and Earth is the 13th colony, should also have a Lord?

My idea is to find the 13th Lord (or cylon clone) hiding out on a world than includes Ovoids (thereby an episode titled "Lord of Flies"; but I digress). They will out the 4 and reveal the last model.

As to the Cylon god- Baltar. It makes sense that the smug, selfish, scientist would love to create his own species. The'angels' are his future self grooming him for the job. Also his future self could shape events in the past to be seen as prophesies.

Finally, I don't think Earth is a hidden colony; this was a myth created to found Kobol (read Plato's Republic, it's all there). I mean with everything we know about evolution and relationships between species, it would make BSG a fairy tail.

Is Moore a Republican??? :)

I meant 'tale'... proof read David, proof read.

The whole "Leoban said" argument is hogwash. In the same episode where he claimed the Adama was a cylon, he also claimed that there was a nuclear warhead hidden in the fleet about to go off. He even openly admitted that he lied about it in that very episode. Claiming the something sensational must be true because Lioben said it (especially that he said it then) is asking to be disappointed. I don't where this idea that cylons don't lie came from. We've seen them lie to each other and most of them wouldn't bat an eyelash at lying to a human.

True, the Cylons lie. However, since they appear at least to be religious zealots, and it has been my experience that religious zealots will lie about many things, they will NEVER lie about their religion or it's particulars, it is quite possible that Leoban was truthful in this matter of Cylon theology.

One interesting thing I noticed. The "regular" cylons are numbered 1-6 and then 8. "Seven" is part of the final five (insert Jeri Ryan joke here). I wonder in the fact that there is a "missing" number prior to the Sharons/Eights are connected to the various "problems" with that model (Boomer voting against another 8, Athena joining the humans, etc).

David

"True, the Cylons lie. However, since they appear at least to be religious zealots, and it has been my experience that religious zealots will lie about many things, they will NEVER lie about their religion or it's particulars, it is quite possible that Leoban was truthful in this matter of Cylon theology."

I've seen zealots lie. Sometimes they'll do it just to mess with the heads of people they think of as ignorant.

What's been shown in recent episodes is that the seven do not know the identities of the final five. The episode that aired a couple of days ago had three Cylon models convinced that the final five were within the fleet while another flatly denied it. None of them were acting like they had prior knowledge of who any of the five might be. They just acted like it was a matter of opinion. They wouldn't have acted that way if they knew for a fact that at least one of the final five was in the fleet.

Thus, Leoban's pants were very much on fire.

We can debate whether religgion is faith, opinion, or faith based opinion. Leobon may be lying, or, his obsession with Starbuck could point the finger at her. However, I think she's to obvious. Someone like Gaeta or Dualla would work, but I still think the fifth is some as yet unseen character.

I thought about it being a character we haven't seen yet. It's possible, but I don't think it is very likely.

With only one season left, there's very little time for the last Cylon to have a lot of impact. So if he isn't someone we've already seen, he'll need to do something huge. That isn't impossible, the original series had Satan show up (they called him Count Ibis).

But no matter what they do with a new character, it won't have the built in impact of saying that one of the main characters was a Cylon. That's the kind of thing that makes viewers rethink everything they've seen. So I'd say that the odds of a new character being the Cylon are low.

Patrick Macnee!!!!!!YESSSSSS!!!!!!!

Sorry for the gap, my son hit enter. Patrick MacNee. Perfect. He played Satan/Count Iblis, as well as voicing Imperious Leader in the original.

Him or Diana Rigg.

I also like Cottle as the last Cylon. In a scene on New Caprica, Lucy Lawless asks him if the blood on him is human or cylon. Cottle's response was something to the effect of 'does it really matter?'. I think at some point, the final five wanted nothing to do with the other cylon's 'plan' to destroy humanity but to join them instead.

My other suspect was Dualla. There was a montage scene in the pilot miniseries where they paralleled Boomer returning to Galactica and embracing Tyrol and Dualla walking up to Billy in a hallway and suddenly kissing him. Later, knowing the Cylon plan to reproduce, I began to think that one of them (Dualla or Billy) is also a Cylon. While the known four have managed to get themselves into important positions, she was able to get together with the president's most trusted advisor and later the CAG and future commander of Pegasus.

I'm not sure if this is related to the topic, but near the end of the pilot miniseries Bill Adama is holding a letter that says there are 12 cylon models. Anybody remember where he got that from? One of the final 5 perhaps?

Finally, thanks for bringing Cowboy Pete back!

It was never actually established where that note in the miniseries came from, but I believe the production team has said it was left by Baltar.

Incredibly stupid (or quite clever) hint that Tom Zarek is the final Cylon:

The mystery of the final five plotline was first presented in an episode titled "Torn". The title refered to Tigh and Starbuck starting trouble against those who were not stuck on New Caprica, but also could mean the torn status of the 12 Cylons or Baltar's own internal conflict. The title also might be a hint that Tom Zarek is one of the Final Five.

Where is the Zarek connection? On my lousy non-HD television, the title "TORN" looked like "TOM" (Torn/Tom) and for a few weeks I thought Tom was the name of that episode. I thought this was a really dumb name, since Zarek doesn't appear in the episode at all (please tell me somebody else made this mistake too). It's probably just my fanboy habit of reading too much into things, but what if that reading was intentional? What if it was a hint like the anagrams on Lost?

My completely out-there theory is that the final Cylon isn't a person at all. It's the Six in Baltar's brain - in reality, a sophisticated Cylon AI that can transfer itself, virus-like, into humans.

Odds are probably at least as good as Patrick McGoohan!

I said it on March 28, 2007 in Cowboy Pete's "2008 Motherfracker Edition" and I still believe it, the final one is Doc Cottle. As for the crap about Dirk showing up in this season, I think that is highly unlikely, but I still think back to that podcast of the season one cliff hanger where they talked about God being revealed as Dirk.

Okay, here's my out-there theory:

The four new Cylons all presumably remember their lives, all the way back to childhood. At least, none of them has gone "I was wondering why I have no memories before the age of 20...". So, that may mean they have fabricated or implanted memories of their human lives. But another alternative I was thinking about is, what if they were born to human parents? Perhaps these 5, being so much more human in design, ressurect after a death the old fashioned way - they are born and grow up? They could be transferred or planted in a way simmilar, in theory, to whatever means put Six in Baltar's head.

Running with that, with the expectation that the final Cylon is someone we've seen before, but will come as a surprise, and taking the "this has happened before, and will happen again" theme a metaphysically literal place: I propose Hera as the final Cylon.

This is kind of off-topic.

"It has all happen before and it will all happen again".

There is time travel involved. Somebody will be stuck in the past and write all the "prophecies" from his/her/their expirences.

Maybe Starbucks.

Maybe one of the Hybrids or one of the Cylons is send to the past and he is an ancestor of Starbucks and that is why she has visions since she was a little girl. She may be 1/64 cylon or something.

Maybe a Cylon in the fleet or the human/cylon babys and in a paradox they became the first "human beings" in history and populate the colonies. Humans evolving from Cylons or from Hybrids.

What is missing in all this theories is the religious aspect.

I don't think much of the religious stuff will ever get answered. I think they're in a position where any answer that satisfies some of the fans will be a huge disappointment to the vast majority. God and prophecy are all fine in a vague sense, but once they start getting into stuff like time travel to explain the mechanics of it, they strip all the grandness out of the story.

So I don't think they'll ever really explain the prophecies, the characters running around in Baltaar's and Six's heads, or reveal who the original programmers and the Cylon god were.

Let's just say I'm glad they dropped the "They have a plan" from the opening since it's been increasingly clear that the Cylons have as much of a plan as a Robin Williams improv performance.

We put it here as, "And they have a Plan. But that Plan didn't work out, so they tried another plan. That one wasn't so hot either. Now they're just winging it."

Ron Moore has stated that the Cylons are all originals - nobody was abducted and replaced, or anything like that. Of course, Ron also stated that Starbuck was dead, so we know he'll lie for the sake of his show...

I still think Dualla and Gaeta are possibles - the others are all close to/trusted advisors for the human leadership (okay, Tyrol's a bit of a stretch on that, but let's just ride with this, all right?). Dee was responsible for persuading Bill to get the band back togeth- ah, I mean rejoin the rest of the Fleet at Kobol; she also helped persuade Lee to take the Pegasus back to assist in the exodus from New Caprica, in defiance of Bill's order that they should go on ahead and search for Earth.

I think the Five are actually in opposition to the Seven, and are trying to save the remnant of humanity, not destroy them. (If the Five wanted all the humans dead, after all, their prime moment to strike would have been after Boomer shot the Commander, with Tigh in charge of the Fleet and Tyrol in charge of the Vipers...)

"Of course, Ron also stated that Starbuck was dead, so we know he'll lie for the sake of his show..."

How do we know she didn't die?

I seem to recall reading that the "Spines light up during sex" has been retconned to a "special effect only visible to the audience, not actually happening", probably because it finally occurred to someone this provided a pretty easy test for Cylons.

Yeah, the "stick a random fiber optic cable in your arm and transmit through it" is another silly thing about "undetectable" Cylons...

Glad to see others propose time travel as a device to explain some plot points. It can work on BSG because unlike Star Trek, it hasn't been beaten to death (I don't want to get started on Abrams' movie).

Also as to the obvious sign of a Cylon, what if they are composed of nanobots that can mimic on the molecular level? Their technological aspects become apparent when the situation calls for it. During sex?...Harvesting semen to create a hybrid?

BTW, can somebody help me understand the Basestar's hybrid? It's not one of the 12, and explainations are whispered during the show and even on repeat plays I still don't get it.

OK, longshot we all forgot about.

Danny "Bulldog" Novacek.

It can't be Cane or Starbuck or Bill Adama because they're already too machinelike. The metatext is that the more we fight, the more like our enemy we become. The Final Four were the most human, the most unexpected, and the most integral of the crew. Sure, the big people make the decisions, but these four are each in positions of tremendous power: crew chief, pilot, assistant, and second-in-command. My bet is Gaeta to win, Roslin to place, and Cottle to show.

Odds 10-1. My money is on the doc. Have you seen how much he smokes. Seriously he has to be a Cylon. Every time you see him he is lighting another square. As old as is looks is lungs would have been reduced to a pulsing mass of tar if he was not a Cylon. Plus I think I heard him say F*CK once when he was giving Baltar a brain scan to search for a cylon chip in his brain.

Oh right. I totally forgot that Doc Cottle was the one who told Baltaar that there was no chip in his head. That does up the odds.

But part of me says the last reveal has to be a major player. Adama, Lee, Roslin, Baltaar, or Starbuck. I'd rule some of those out for various reasons, but just based on prestige, those are the ones that will get the biggest reaction from viewers.

Exactly, Tom G., there was some major visual hyperbole going on in the early episodes.
Never mind the fiber optic line; how else do you explain a woman in a bright red dress walking away with no consequences when she'd just snapped a baby's neck in the middle of a crowd?

Was it ever established there actually IS a chip in Baltar's head? I thought that was Six frakking with Baltar's head.

No, it was established that there *wasn't* a chip in his head. By Dr. Cottle.

If Dr. Cottle was lying about that, there are a lot of interesting implications. It would seem to imply that he's working with the visions in Baltaar's head. Which would also implay that he's working with the ghost Baltaar that is in Caprica Six's head. They never met since the show started, but her visions are quite similar to Baltaar's.

So that would mean he's not a sleeper agent like the other members of the final five, but he's also not out to destroy the fleet like the seven was.

Thompson and Weedle have admitted to ongoing retcons throughout the series -- taking what has been seen on screen and using that, along side whatever ideas they've had in their heads, to make the show fairly consistent.

I think whatever plan Ron Moore had during the miniseries has been altered along the way. Not significantly, but enough to work with what he had. I'm guessing that early on in the show the FF would be guest and established characters for plot developments as needed -- space to be filled. It wasn't until Moore decided to end the show that he decided to tweak the FF and make them -all- existing actors and then go from there.

He might still be holding open the Final Cylon as a guest star, but I doubt it.

I favor BrianOsserman's theory about Dr. Cottle as the final Cylon. I think it makes perfect sense.

But, I also agree with David that the 12 humanoid Cylons represents the 12 Lords of Kobol... And Tom Zarek did refer to Adama as Zeus on more than one occasion... dramatic irony, anyone?

And are the visions of Baltar and Caprica Six sent from Count Iblis, the OG BSG's version of Satan?

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I also remembered that in Robert Anton Wilson & Robert Shea's The Illuminatus! Trilogy, Hagbard Celine, the captain of the golden submarine and the leader of the Discordian Movement, turned out to be the 5th Hidden Illuminatus Primus, playing both sides against the middle. Would Ron Moore be doing a riff on the book and that means that Adama IS the final 5th Hidden Cylon? Or am I reaching too far?

My money is on Cally. In the 4/18/08 episode she kept mentioning that she had been taking the anti-depressants/sleeping pills since the Galactica got to the nebula where the other 4 learned their identities. I think it's also interesting that the preview commercial drops the hint that Saul Tye's dead wife may have been a Six.

So does that make the baby a pure cylon? One line Cally said was that Galen never touched after he hit her. So is does the baby have a different father?

Didn't Tori look happy when she killed Calley? Maybe the reason the five were seperated was they have a tendency to go nuts.

Not that the seven are any better. Killing, seducing each other. Makes you wonder why the original Cylons saw this as an upgrade. Or did they?

I think the 12th is on Earth, and we'll know who when are travellers hit terra firma.

But what Earth? They shot Eastern North America in daylight. Kara made no reference to settlements or any satellites.

I'll be disappointed if the survivors are our ancestors. It doesn't jive from a common sense point of view.

Everything they mention has Greco-Roman roots, except the Battlestar Valkyrie. But was that there for a reason?

So many questions....

"One line Cally said was that Galen never touched after he hit her. So is does the baby have a different father?"

No. They were talking about violence, she just meant that he hadn't hit her again. Cally didn't even get pregnant until several months after he hurt her, so it would have been mentioned by now if he wasn't the father.

My suspects, in descending order:

Doc Cottle--I'm new to this one, but the guy is well-placed, has no history, and there are blanks that could be filled by him being the Last Toaster.
Dualla--Then Leoben wouldn't 'technically' be lying, since she married into the Adama family....'he mixes lies with truth,' Bill told Starbuck.
Romo Lampkin--He's coming back, and I honestly think he's a good candidate.
Tom Zarek--Would be a little hokey. I mean, honestly. Then Leoben's lie would be true in the absolute LAMEST way possible.

Also, has anyone thought that maybe the final one might not be a sleeper, but aware the whole time? Might explain how the other four got 'switched on'?

No spoiler....

Anyone notice the secret meeting location?

Weapons locker 1701D.

I almost see our distinguished host's hand there...

J.

I loved seeing that 1701D marking. Nice like geek in-joke.

I'll say it again: Apollo and Zarek. Same Cylon model, different ages. Simply pulling back the curtain on the last model would be anti-climactic now. A bigger twist is ideal.

And the final model must be someone with a greater shock value than the previously revealed. That removes most characters from the equation.

The idea that the last Cylon is a previously never before seen character is bizarre.

"I'll say it again: Apollo and Zarek. Same Cylon model, different ages."

Nah. Other than both being white guys, they don't look alike. Plus, Zarek didn't just appear out of either at the beginning of the show. In his first appearance they talked about him getting arrested years and years ago. People know what he looked like when he was younger. Saying that they're identical except for age but nobody noticed until know? Nah.

You mean like how different Admiral Adama looked when he was younger? And obviously, the Cylons have been able to create human looking models since before the end of the first war, so time isn't a factor at all. As for people knowing what Zarek looked like when he was younger? If I showed you a picture of someone who looked alot like you, would you presume they were a long lost twin? All it takes is a superficial difference in hairstyle and facial hair, plus the passing of decades, and people will see the differences rather than the similarities.

Additionally, it's clear within the program that there is some kind of connection with Zarek and Apollo.

Also, has anyone thought that maybe the final one might not be a sleeper, but aware the whole time? Might explain how the other four got 'switched on'?

I thought about that too. If my theory that the last is on Earth, they may sensed them getting closer and activated them. Or it may be a satellite in the nebula that did it. They didn't get much time there.

We still don't know what purpose the final five have, whether benevolent or malevolent and to which side. Tori acts like Mr Spock on a pon-far bender, Tigh appears to be having delusions, and the last two don't know what to think.

Wouldn't it be cool if the four aren't cylons but are close to them. For example;

Anders=Kara
Torie=Roslin
Galen=Calley
Tigh=Adama

If Torie going a little nuts now, imagine if she found out that it was all lie?

BTW, what's up with Helo and Athena on Starbuck's crusade? They are two of the most competent officers on Galactica. And what about Hera?

"I showed you a picture of someone who looked alot like you, would you presume they were a long lost twin? "

If you're talking about our world, no. I'd just think that was an amazing coincidence.

In the world of BSG, I wouldn't think anything because someone would have shot me already. Two people who aren't related but look exactly alike? Cylon, bang, dead.

But it doesn't matter because they aren't twins. They look nothing alike. If the show *does* say that they're the same model and Tom looked like Lee when he was younger, that will be incredibly cheesy.

They look just as much alike to me as young Admiral Adama and older Admiral Adama do. I mean if the show were to go in that direction, a certain amount of suspension of disbelief would be required. Just as it's required when we see young Admiral Adama. Are the two actors actually identical in appearance? Obviously not. But the passage of time combined with the necessary suspension of disbelief can be used to account for a great deal of that discrepancy.

Unlike the audience, the crew of Galactica has no conception of how far back the Cylon infiltration of humanity goes. Until after the destruction of society, no one was likely to have seen Zarek and Apollo side by side. Zarek spent decades in prison and photos of him in his youth are potentially scarce, even before most records were destroyed. All that is required to explain how Zarek could have looked suspiciously similar to Apollo when younger without anyone making a connection is a very small amount of writing.

I'm certainly not saying I'm right. It's just a theory. But if I'm not right, the relationship between Zarek and Apollo makes considerably less sense.