PeterDavid.net

Sheesh ... what did you do to piss convention organisers off so much? :-)

Seriously, the level of unprofessionalism these two sets of organisers have displayed astounds me. I feel like they've acted in ways that I understood were totally unacceptable back when I was in high school ...

Speaking of smaller conventions, when are you coming to the Kansas City area (or did we piss you off too?)

One of these days I'd like to see a comic book convention that focuses on bringing out artists and writers and editors and such to talk about their projects from past to future. Too many conventions are reliant on vendors. One can only comic shop for so long.

Maybe it's time to have your lawyer draw up a basic one-page Appearance Contract? One that simply outlines the Con's responsibility to pay your travel expenses and also adds a $750 penalty for canceling your appearance (unless the con itself is canceled)?

All you want is to make sure that folks who invite you have a genuine interest in your appearing. That ought to fix it. $750 is about the amount they'd spend bringing you in, meaning that the decent and upright individuals wouldn't be fazed in the least. In their minds, they already "spent" that money when they invited you.

You'd _hope_ for organizers to think "we can't cancel Peter David...he's been good to us in the past, and he promised us the date based on just a handshake" but in truth, they think "We have no legal obligation to him whatsoever; cool, so he's the first guy we cut to save money."

re: United Fan Con - Good riddance. I went to just one of 'em a few years ago (I needed to get one last autograph to complete my Monty Python Codex) and it seemed like every third person was giving me this look of "Who the hell are YOU, and what are you doing here?"

I felt like I'd wandered into the wrong wedding reception. Never again!

"One that simply outlines the Con's responsibility to pay your travel expenses and also adds a $750 penalty for canceling your appearance (unless the con itself is canceled)?"

I assure you that, if I did that, then in every case the convention would reason, "Let him sue us." I'd spend time and energy suing them for $750 and then all they'd do is declare bankruptcy and dissolve like tissue paper on water. Plus of course it would be spun into, "Peter David sued us into oblivion," with choruses of "What a creep!" springing up hither and yon.

PAD

"Speaking of smaller conventions, when are you coming to the Kansas City area (or did we piss you off too?)"

No, you didn't piss me off, but at this point if I were approached by any small convention I'd probably just reject it out of hand. Who needs this?

PAD

I guess that's a problem with things that are done by volenteers. They really have no idea how to be professional because, well they aren't.
Would think that anyone with the slightest bit of commen sense would realize that this isn't the way to run a rail road, but then there are lots of folks without commen sense out ther.

"Unprofessional" doesn't even scratch the surface; "ridiculous" and "juvenile" comes closer, sadly. But if that's their attitude, you're best not associated with them. It's a confluence of horrible management and idiotic decision-making, and I'm almost looking forward to other people's post-con reports to see how bad it gets when people actually show up.

Thanks to Orlando and Springfield, the smaller venues like KC (as Byron invoked) are going to suffer, especially if this treatment becomes commonplace and your hesitation to attend mid-level cons propagates to other friendly non-prima-donna creators. Maybe Springfield didn't intend to poison the well for other cons, and possibly the convention circuit as a whole, but intentions are irrelevant, especially when their area of concern stops at themselves.

I do like Ihnatko's idea of a simple appearance contract. Maybe if I rewrite one of my restraining orders with a bit of white-out....

Maybe you've lost so much weight, you make some of the fans feel self-conscious about their own. Try showing up in a fat suit and see if you stop getting cuts.

We'll always have Shore Leave (and Farpoint)......

I think it's obvious that John Byrne is behind this somehow.

I would pay your travel and hotel fees for you to come to Austin Texas and explain to me what is going on with DC comics and their continuity with Superman and Supergirl

So Sorry to hear that, Peter. We'd been toying with going to UFC - the bottom fo the barrel of New England conventions, as far as we're concerned, but you've just solidified our resolve of NOT attending. I have never recommended UFC to anyone; it's one of the biggest rip-offs out there for what you (the fan)get. There just isn't much else in New England.

Have you thought of working out deals where a con can't advertise you as a guest until they have already mailed you your reservations and/or your plane tickets or, even better, sending you a check for the tickets with the understanding that, should they pull a last minute cancellation, you keep the $$$$ to compensate for your inconvenience?

Would that even work the way some of the cons are set up?

No, a contract along the lines of "If you don't have me come out, you'll pay me $750" won't work, for exactly the reason PAD cited.

However, it should be possible to have something along the lines of an escrow agreement; the convention agrees to put up $750 in an escrow account, with the understanding that once the terms of the agreement are reached, they get their $750 back. (And, of course, if they don't live up to the agreement, PAD -- or whomever PAD designates [CBLDF?] -- gets the loot.)

The conditions should be relatively lax, IMO; this is meant to be a "convention lives up to its premise and promises" agreement, not a "guest is satisfied beyond all expectations, or else he's $750 richer." Of course, it's in conventions' best interests to maintain good relations with guests and would-be guests, so they'll hopefully do well to keep everyone happy.

IANAL, but the nice thing about escrow accounts is that they're relatively simple; it might even be possible to tweak a service such as escrow.com for the needs.

I don't know if this is a common problem in the comic biz, but if it is, then the escrow service might be something established by a comic creators' trade group (if such a thing exists... I'm primarily in the gaming world, and I know we have at least two such organizations I could approach with such an idea if there was a demand).

Any chance of you coming to the MegaCon next March in Orlando? I was one of those people who went to Orlando Con and was heavily let down; it would be great to see you make it out, as, from my understanding, it is anything but a small con... though many of the smaller cons held here in Tampa seem to do quite well.

I like the ideas that I have heard here about having the con sign some sort of agreement, especially since they are using you for, in essence, advertising for their con. At the very least, you should be compensated for them using your name to promote their con. The sad thing is, I've wanted to meet you for quite a while now, since I first read Q-in-Law, and with how badly you have been treated by cons recently, the chance is slim that I'll see you in the Ohio area anytime soon. Perhaps a book tour for Before Dishonor, even with the late notice, and possibly add in Keith R.A. DeCandido, J. M. Dillard, and the authors featured in The Sky's The Limit? I'm sure that a lot of us would pay to have a group like that together!

PAD - Well, I've been in your position. I'm a tech columnist, not a comic writer...but still, I travel about a dozen times a year to give talks.

I've turned down a solid, paying speaking gig because I had already promised the date to a free appearance that got cancelled. I have turned up in a strange city with nothing but my backpack and the phone number of a conference organizer who had no idea I was coming. I have had auditorium keynote presentations turn into ten minutes shoehorned into a conference room between other scheduled speakers.

I did come to dread the invites a little. But then I worked out a list of the things I was dreading and came up with a list of terms that have to be met before I agree to a date. The only really important one is that everyone must understand that my appearance is tentative until I receive confirmation of a paid air ticket and a paid hotel room.

So you're right: a contract is worthless until it's enforced, and there are too many people out there with a "Fine, sue us" mentality. But (at least in my experiences as a tech columnist) these things weed out most of the losers. If someone doesn't have their act together to print, sign, and fax back a document, then they don't have their act together, period.

And again, as someone with a contract, at least you're no longer at the bottom of the list.

No _reasonable_ person would blame you for ending your participation in these little cons if you think the whole thing is just too much trouble. But as a general rule I think it's usually possible to find a way to keep doing something that you really enjoy.

Not like I'm a Cowboy Pete groupie or anything ( I know, the thought scares me too) it's been a long time since I attended a con based on who is the big name guest star. By far it's the regular attendees I find I'm looking forward to seeing the most. It's great catching up with Bobby Greenberger, and Mike Freidman, Howie Weinstein and some guy named PAD.

Of course it never hurts to visit with the likes of George Takei or Claudia Christianson (GOD was she ever RIPPED at last Shore Leave!). But it's the (forgive the expression ) little guys who make the whole con experience worthwhile. It's the geek family reunion.

These guys are missing the point... it's what fandom is all about, not bragging what celebrity elbow touched whomever's teat.
Bob (Syd de Vicious) Ahrens

This does suck. I've been lucky enough to meet you a few times in Dallas. At Wizard world two years ago, my friend Thom Zahler's booth was next to yours and we got to see how nice you are at all times (even with a cold.)

It does seem sometimes that it doesn't pay to be a good guy but as we've learned from Earl (and other sources) that being good does pay off in the long run. Travel safe and hope to see you back in D/FW sometime soon.

My friend owns a comic shop about 40 minutes north of Springfield and I know there was a few of his clientele that were citing your appearance as one of the reasons for going (not THE reason, I grant you, but still...)

You could always do a signing at my friend's store. We cannot pay travel costs but we can feed you Bill Cosby's favorite meatball grinders from the pizza joint next door. And you can stay at my house!

Hi Peter

Two questiosn unrelated to this blog post but I didn't know where else to ask.

1) I read and was really quite fond of The Darkness of the Light. When is the sequel out?

2) I see you ahve a novel called "Tigerheart" coming out. Is there a synopsis for it somewhere, or maybe you could tell me a bit about what sort of story this is and in what world it is set?

Oh, cut them some slack. They're taking a big risk, probably laying out their own cash, to try and build an annual event. I'm sure they discovered too late that they were in over their heads and I'm equally sure they were polite and apologetic when they contacted you.

This isn't Canada, after all, where the comics retailing business is subsidized by the government.

"Oh, cut them some slack. They're taking a big risk, probably laying out their own cash, to try and build an annual event."

You might want to do some checking before talking. If you'd checked their website, you would have seen this is the 17th annual convention.

PAD

This sucks!

You were one of the main reasons I was going to United Fan Con!

Man, now I'm really going to have very little to do at the Con.

Ok, I was going to tell everyone, as a joke, that Highlander wasn't coming because he found out I was there. He's canceled on two other cons I went too, so it must be me right?
This one, I won't take the wrap for.
But for the record: I always come to see Peter David. Bottom line, he's more fun than some of the other guests and he's the nicest guy there.
Oh, well!!!
I'll see you at Farpoint.

duskrider3740---Peter David has attended Motor Citycon in Novi, Michigan (not Detroit), in the past. I am sure he would attend Mid-Ohio-Con in Columbus, if invited. Both of those are long running conventions.

Peter, I understand your frustration. I have attended too many cons where the 'main attraction' has cancelled at the last minute. After so many, I, too, began to suspect that certain names were on the list to attract suckers, er...I mean fans.

Alan- Thanks for the info! My husband was the one with his thumb on the con info and was unable to give me that info! Really, though, what has been done to Peter is an outrage and starts to give cons a bad name.

Victoria Goldy-Rhodes

Idiots.

Can't blame you for considering a no small cons policy. And thanks for letting us know--the people who are helping to ruin things ought to be exposed for all they've done.

Wow... that is impressively lame.

Sorry, Peter. And what a let down to the fans. Well, anyone who was planning to go- you know who to complain to.

That just....stinks.

I'd say it's just their loss but it's a royal screwing of fans too.

sorry to hear it Peter - if it makes you feel any better, you can come to any event I'm involved in and I won't dis-invite you no matter much you don't charge - you're all witnesses to the vow I'm making.

We love ya big guy!

At this year's I-CON, there was a panel on how to run a convention. One of the people -- I forget his name, but he's been organzing sci-fi conventions since the 1960s -- stressed that conventions are business events, and that it's very important that the people involved act as professionals. Sadly, if this is the 17th con run by these folks, they're either consistently amateurish or more interested in casting a wide net and than cancelling later, than treating their people well.

I hope you're able to talk to other convention guests and attendees before rejecting all small conventions, PAD. I can only imagine how an experience like this can leave a bad taste in your mouth, but they can't all be that bad!

Funny that you should mention I-Con, James, since they often do the opposite to Peter. By that, I mean they either don't invite him until the last minute, or leave him off their promotional announcements, despite the fact that he's a perennial guest, and certainly one of (if not the) the biggest names in SF/comics living on Long Island.

Interesting.

UFC has a fan forum on their website. A fan posted a query asking why I was suddenly dropped from the guest list. Someone posted a link to this website as a response. The reply and link were subsequently deleted. The question remains; the answer is gone. I'll be curious to see if the question vanishes as well.

PAD

It's gutless that they deleted the reply and the link.

They better not delete the original post. I'm the one who posted it.

And no one from the Con organizers has bothered to respond either. I want an answer!

Peter, that was a pretty tacky thing to do. Not only was the situation handled badly, but I would think you’d be less than enthusiastic about attending their future conventions, so they’ve now managed to screw themselves as well. Considering their website proudly boast several ‘bonus’ guests (whatever that means), they obviously had enough money in the budget at some point. I don’t mean this to be an insult in any way, but common sense would dictate that in terms of cost versus return, you would be their best investment, considering they would be paying minimal travel expenses, hotel room and meals. That means they could probably invite ten Peter (and Kathleen) Davids versus one Wendy Padbury or Tracy Scoggins. That has nothing to do with either actress, both of whom I like a lot; I’m simply talking economics here.

As somebody who’s been to literally hundreds of conventions both as guest and attendee, I know there has always been a multi-tier system as far as guests are concerned. The actors are usually the big draw, meaning their name sells tickets, but it’s usually the second and third-tier guests who provide the most value for money. A big-name actor may sell a thousand tickets, but quite a lot of those actors will refuse to do anything beyond what’s in their contracts. On the other hand, it’s the lower-tier guests who often pitch in to do the work that the STAR won’t do, whether it’s judging a masquerade contest, hawking items at a charity auction, running workshops, or sitting in the hotel bar chatting with fans until the wee hours of the morning.

I’ve always been pragmatic enough to know that if I get invited to a con, it’s usually as a third-tier guest (in fact, I often wore a badge that said Little Shot to differentiate me from the Big Shots. My wife Sheelagh, who’s a makeup artist, is more of a Medium Shot (although having just won a Welsh Bafta Award for Doctor Who last season, she’s probably moved up half a tier). If we went to a con together, we always made sure we gave value for money. The stuff I brought for a charity auction usually raised more money than my expenses, so I figured the convention staff wasn’t out of pocket as far as my presence was concerned. And I remember when I was going to a big Thanksgiving convention in Chicago some years ago, I felt badly for the folks who paid big bucks for the celebrity luncheon only to get stuck with me as their table’s guest, so I made sure I brought lots of signed ‘door prizes’ from the Babylon 5 set where I had been a few weeks earlier.

The point I’m probably making quite badly here is that while it appears the STAR guests may bring in the numbers, it’s the Little and Medium Shots who often help make the convention more enjoyable. Anybody who doesn’t think that having Peter and Kathleen David as guests isn’t a good investment probably should re-think their involvement as far as running a convention.

Finally, to address a point that previous posters have made, I’ve been invited to a number of conventions where the STAR name had to cancel, for whatever reason. The organizers would generally post the cancellation as quickly as they could, but in several cases, that news wouldn’t be made public for weeks, even months. After all, the difference could mean a couple of hundred extra tickets sold, which in turn could make or break a convention’s budget. I’ve always found that approach to be unconscionable, because you’re taking people’s money under false pretences. And to bring this discussion back around to the convention in question, how many fans paid their hard-earned money to see Adrian Paul only to discover that he wasn’t going to be there? How many of them were offered refunds if they chose not to go now? Just something to think about.

Incidentally, I just went on the convention's website to see what their policy was in regards to my last question, figuring I should double-check before I opened my big mouth (too late!) but I noticed one of the forum posts notes that 'Admission tickets of any type are not refundable.' So I guess that answers the question.

You might want to do some checking before talking. If you'd checked their website, you would have seen this is the 17th annual convention.

Maybe you should have done some checking before you committed to be a guest?

I inferred from the comments above mine that it was a new con. However, whether it's new or not really has little bearing on the argument. Perhaps you should cut them some slack because it's indecent to do what you have done, which is imply nefarious intent against a bunch of guys who are (to judge by their website) simply in over their heads.

Lingster - Has someone been slipping questionable substances in your drinking water? Setting aside the fact that PAD, by his diverse output would draw in not only comic book, but TV, SF, fantasy and TREK fans (and how many comic book writers can make that claim?) there's the simple fact that anyone who's ever been near a convention knows you don't plan for more than you can afford. And if you do wind up in trouble, you cancel the event, you don't try to make a go of it by screwing guests over.

What nefarious intent are you seeing? As far as I can tell PAD has told us what happened, which is more than can be said of them.

Or to put it another way, the UFC guys are free to come here and post their side of the story but based on their actions so far they have no desire to allow the same to be done on their forum. So who's acting like they have something to be ashamed of here?

Actually, as of a few minutes ago, someone named ixmart has posted a reply that again sends them to this forum, so they have another chance to do the right thing.

"Maybe you should have done some checking before you committed to be a guest?"

I've been a guest at several previous United Fan Cons. So what would you have suggested I check?

"I inferred from the comments above mine that it was a new con."

Infer whatever you wish, but before you actually operate on that inference, it wouldn't do you any harm to check.

"However, whether it's new or not really has little bearing on the argument."

Considering you made it the centerpiece of your previous post, that's quite a 180 you're pulling.

"Perhaps you should cut them some slack because it's indecent to do what you have done, which is imply nefarious intent against a bunch of guys who are (to judge by their website) simply in over their heads."

*Indecent*? What the hell are you talking about? Who *are* you, anyway? That's pretty amazing, that you can discern so much from their website (a site you didn't bother to check earlier). What about their site, exactly, tells you that they're in "over their heads," 'cause you're some kinda psychic if you can tell that.

PAD

Someone mentioned that I-CON is often late announcing PAD as a guest or doesn't publicize him enough. I leave it to PAD to answer specifics on those, but since he's been there almost every year and run multiple panels, I doubt anything that's happened has been too bad. (I've gone to I-CON for the past nine years, running everything from games to panels, and my one consistent complaint is that they can't/don't get the schedule up until a week or two before the convention.)

Peter David: Writer of comics, Star Trek novels, Babylon 5 episode, Space Cases, movies, numerous other novels. All around good and funny guy.

On top of which, they've got Bill Mumy coming, tell me they couldn't have gotten the two of them together to do something!

I'm kind of really pissed. I want to see Bill and Tracy Scoggins for the B5 connection and Nicki Clyne from BSG (for her Dark Angel connection) but as far as anything else, the chance to once again meet, chat, and have a few things signed by the one and only PAD was a main reason I was going to the show. Plus I would've been able to pick up the two new books he has out that I was purposely waiting for the Con to buy so I could have them signed.

SONUVABITCH!

I'm about as pissed now as I was last night when the Red Sox put Greg Gagne, that hack, into the game.

*Indecent*? What the hell are you talking about?

This is from PAD's post:

You know, I just can't get enough of having regional conventions use my name for initial promotion and then dump me at the last minute.

That looks like an allegation of deliberate wrongdoing to me, in that PAD is suggesting that the organizers pulled a deliberate "bait and switch". Unless they admitted it to you, making such an allegation in a public forum is a bit indecent.

Who *are* you, anyway?

Smile! You and I are going to have a prolonged relationship. I run a handful of web sites, including a She-Hulk fan site, here: http://shulkie.com.

What about their site, exactly, tells you that they're in "over their heads," 'cause you're some kinda psychic if you can tell that.

They're running an old "Nuke" content management system, and their instance has not been upgraded with any security patches in several years. That means they have no ongoing technical support, which almost any enterprise of that size at least ought to have these days. Also, it's obvious that they're not even really using the (admittedly meager) content creation features of Nuke, instead using brute force to create content on the site. That means that the person who originally set up the site has left, and no person of equal competence has come on board. From a web marketing perspective, then, they're deeply over their heads. And since web marketing has become the primary marketing tool for niche events such as comic cons, the consequences of that weakness are likely going to be grave.

Additionally, the forum (also running on unpatched software with multiple published security vulnerabilities) is moribund in terms of activity.

Finally, I would say that their failure to even post their own event dates on the site calendar would tend to suggest there's insufficient manpower and a lack of experience among the organizers.

It surprises me that you immediately jumped to malice (if you did) as the explanation for your disinvitation, when it's far more likely that good old fashioned incompetence is the actual reason.

Incidentally, there's a good chance you'll fix your site's formatting problem if you change this bit of code in your CSS file:

#links {
background:#999;
padding:10px;
border:1px solid #FFF;
}

#links {
background:#999;
padding:10px;
border:1px solid #FFF;
width: 29%;
}

What the hell? Why would they drop you from the convention, and then delete any questions about it on their website?

Well, these dudes can't be that smart or dependable or honest if they can cut one of the biggest names in comics, AND the Trek universe. Bill Mumy should drop out at the last minute, just to give them a taste of their own medicine.

But the thing that is disturbing is WHY? I know what they said, they have exhausted their budget on other big-names -- but that doesn't really explain WHY. What other big names, and how much "bigger" are they than PAD, and how much were these people demanding for accommodations? Why couldn't the convention organizers have worked with you Mr. David -- called you or wrote you, to say, they were running short of funds, and could you and they work something out?

I know this sounds "out there" but it's possible that another creator put their foot down, and didn't want to appear with PAD at the same convention. I don't know the entire guest list, so I don't know who that would be. Still, convention organizers should respect their CUSTOMERS, or rather their potential customers, and we all have our favorite creators. If a convention is advertised to be featuring particular creators or celebrities, and fans make plans to go based on that advertising, for the organizers to drop a creator is false advertising, and demonstrates piss-poor business sense.

I would guess the organizers of this particular convention are not long for the convention business.

Well, this incident comes close to confirming that this will likely be the final United Fan Con event. It seemed probable when guest announcements were made very late followed by the elimination of the VIP guest slot due to the inability to sign a huge name guest (they had Shatner in last year). A flat-out guest dumping firmly shows that the powers that be are in full panic mode. Last year, I came across numerous people who dumped down $250-$300 each without hesitation to attend. This year, the con runners are openly (and somewhat quietly in Peter's case) admitting that they are struggling to get those same people to dump down $60 (and they are offering more than usual to get those tickets sold). There seems to be little chance that there will be enough money in the reserve accounts to let the people behind the con prep for a 2008 event.

While I have never been fully happy with how UFC has been run in the past (hiding the schedule from attendees until they arrive, not letting "day of" ticket buyers enter for the first hour of the con), I did enjoy myself at last year's event. Much of that was due to the people friendly nature of the lower tier guests like Peter and Dean Haglund. Hopefully this year's show will not become more sterile because of the elimination of these type of guests.

Peter, it is a shame as I was wanting to see if your printer could once again forget to print out 10-15 pages of a story that you were wanting to read to us. :) I'll try to catch you at New York Comic Con if you attend next year's event.

My sympathies, particularly after learning Bill Mumy's a guest. Hope he has time in his schedule to wander down to Long Island for a visit while out your way.

This entire incident makes me so very sad. UFC used to be my favorite convention, but these past few years... I strongly suspect this will be the last one.

And I'm still going, but mostly just to hang around with friends in a nerdy environment.

The convention is in trouble. It has been losing money for several years and they are doing everything in their power to stay afloat. They also want to produce a quality convention with plenty of activities. Unfortunately they charge for every little extra thing to do that by the time the dust settles, most people are out of money. Rather than gain more fans (something they just can't do) they are trying to get more money out of the people who are loyal. If anyone refuses to pay for more expensive tickets, they are no longer loyal and are considered the enemy (hence the tight editing over their forum). I have never seen a company or service get so mad and bully their customers like the way UFC does. They are always talking down to them and treat them horribly. Slowly they are losing these loyal people because the organizers are panicking and getting mad at anyone who is not giving them full attention and tons of money. They blame people for not being supportive and they blame everyone for every problem with the convention except their selves.

The organizers are always interested in the minor details, more worried about Mr. David's expenses than the main problems of why their membership is down. They are always giving excuses for failures with smaller parts of the convention (some that people wouldn't even know about if they weren't brought up) and try to give the impression that the organizers are the best.

Last year they ripped into several guest suggestions as they felt those people were from series that were no longer of interest. Of course why Claudia Christian and classic Doctor Who guests were there last year is beyond understanding.

They have burnt so many bridges and this year has probably been the worst so far.

:P

I just looked at the UFC threads to see if they deleted that newer post linking this site. Nope. Unless I'm just missing it, they seem to have deleted the entire thread.

I can't figure out whether or not that's sad or funny.

From just checking now it seems as the whole topic on the UFC fan forum has been deleted. Oh Big Brother at its finest. So disappointing.

Lingster: "Maybe you should have done some checking before you committed to be a guest?"

Are you high? Seriously, are you stoned or something?

UFC approached Peter, not the other way around. Besides, what was he supposed to do? Ask to see their budget for the con? Bug their offices to be sure they weren't just playing "made ya look?"

If they weren't serious about having him as a guest they shouldn't have sought him out, and they shouldn't have used his name in their promotions. If they underestimated their costs this year, or overestimated potential attendance, that's not Peter's problem.

A guest should do "some checking" before accepting an unsolicited offer? Good God, I have no idea what the world looks like through your eyes. And I doubt I'd want to.

Yup. They deleted not just the two responses, but the entire thread.

Not exactly "United," is it.

PAD

Peter.

I was wondering if you considered the idea of taking a credit card number that could be charged if you were cancelled. Sort of like a car rental deal where the money is tagged but not used unless defaulted on. You might even consider asking the Comicbook Legal Defense Fund to take the card number, and if a con defaults, the Defense Fund gets the donation.

Just please tell us that you'll still be at Heroes next summer in Charlotte...I can't imagine Sheldon ever doing such a thing...and if he did, we'd find a way to pay your expenses.

Are you planning on going to Philcon next month?

This is what they've now posted over on the United Fan Con site, after deleted two previous queries:

"Running a convention is a very difficult and complicated job. Often things that are planned are canceled or changed due to work commitments by guests or the lack of support, staffing or funding for that activity. For the last few years we tried to add comic book tracks and guests to our event. Unfortunately, we have not been able to organize a reasonable guest lineup or track for this year’s event. So, it was with great regret that a decision was made to cancel comic book writer Peter David. Mr. David was personally contacted and made aware that, under the current convention plans, budget and staffing, his appearance was not going to generate the interest needed to cover the expense. We are sorry that some of you will be disappointed by the decision, but sometimes hard decisions have to be made for the best interest of the event."

I see. When all is said and done, I'm "comic book writer Peter David." And apparently comic book writer Peter David is simply not interesting enough.

This is not to be confused with Star Trek novelist Peter David, or "Space Cases" co-creator (with Bill Mumy, a guest at the convention) or scripter for "Babylon 5" (also featuring Bill Mumy) or writer for "Crusade" (featuring Tracy Scoggins, also attending the convention) or "Battlestar Galactica" novelist. Funny how every year when I perform in their cabaret I've performed songs or original poetry or done jokes, none of which had anything to do with comic books.

The bottom line is that their big name draws aren't pulling in the numbers they were anticipating. So they figured the way to make ends meet was to yank the rug out from under me, and the excuse they're using is that I'm simply not worth their while. I'm worth having my name to advertise their convention for five months...but nothing beyond that.

Uncool. Extremely uncool.

PAD

Isn't revisionist history a wonderful thing? behalf. Even taking them at their word that there wasn't time to develop a comic book track, I would have thought you'd fit into a B5 panel quite neatly,what with having written those episodes and novels and stuff. Or a Star Trek panel. Or a Space Cases panel. There's really no point in hashing this over now, because it's all rationalization after the fact, as opposed to, you know, the truth.

It will be interesting to see if, as these things inevitably happen, one of those very expensive guests cancels out at the last minute due to work commitments and the organizers suddenly have a gap in their guest list...

So, the same guy that other larger and better

Sorry. Cat attack.
______________________________

So, the same guy that other larger and better conventions will invite as a guest, promote, appoint as MC or host for large events, schedule for numerous panels that are almost always packed and present awards to is just a writer of comics who doesn’t generate enough interest to bring fans into their convention? Yeah, that’s the line I would have used (not) to try and lure you back next year or the year after that. Yeah, they could have worded that a lot better and given it a lot more thought.

I’m not even in the PR biz and I could have handled this better and earlier then they did and given a far less insulting explanation for the need to deal with the fact that they spent more money then they actually could and needed to backtrack.

I can’t blame you for being ticked off.

So, the same guy that other larger and better conventions will invite as a guest, promote, appoint as MC or host for large events, schedule for numerous panels that are almost always packed and present awards to is just a writer of comics who doesn’t generate enough interest to bring fans into their convention? Yeah, that’s the line I would have used (not) to try and lure you back next year or the year after that. Yeah, they could have worded that a lot better and given it a lot more thought.

I’m not even in the PR biz and I could have handled this better and earlier then they did and given a far less insulting explanation for the need to deal with the fact that they spent more money then they actually could and needed to backtrack.

I can’t blame you for being ticked off.

I like this bit quite a lot...

We are also sorry this message was not posted earlier, however it has been a very busy weekend and Mr. David was just contacted on Friday evening. Posts regarding Mr. David’s appearance were deleted by our forum admin until we could make a formal announcement.

Thank you for your understanding
UFC staff

They took the time to delete posts and a thread rather save time by just saying that a statement on the matter would be released later? Again, I’m not in the biz or a PR wiz, but I would tend to think that kind of thing would create more ill will then good. And if the statement they released was actually one that they spent time thinking about and coming up with… Can you imagine how bad it could have been written?

I love the "Thank you for your understanding" bit. It's kinda like saying "Well, if you understand, good, story over, if you don't, well, tough."

C'mon PAD, don't bail out on the smaller cons now. The midwest Komic Funny Book Convention And Corn Eatin' Contest might need an apperance!

Now that I think about it, if anyone does know of a comic book convetion/ corn eating competition, I am totally down with that.

I really don't understand the convention - how could they uninvite you, after mentioning in the ads that you will be there? (well, obviously, they could).

If you ever decide to come visit Israel, I'm sure that many people would come to a signing and I'm pretty sure that accomidations could be arranged as well (and if not, I have a very nice guest room that could accomidate you and your wife).

Harry Keusch, Lehavim, Israel

Personally, we had thought (and hoped)that UFC would have folded 5 years ago. This is a convention so desperate for money that everything is a la carte: just to attend the dealer's room (not the convention) is $15 - and a lousy little room at that, little more than T-shirts and Japanese videos. THere is no one-day admission; you must pay $40 for a weekend pass even if you will only be there 4 hours. To get an autograph, another $20-40. A photo? Cough up more. To see Shatner last year, you had to pay $40 to get INTO the convention, and ANOTHER $125+ (depending on 'reserved' seating), just to see Shatner. If you wanted photos, it was more. I hate UFC, but I went for one reason only: I hadn't seen Shatner in 20 years, and his was the only autograph I didn't have, and he doesn't sign often. Yes, I would have done far better buying it from a dealer, but I had this stupid fantasy of at least saying hello to him as he signed my paper. Fat chance. The way the autographs were done (assembly line fashion, behind a barrier, no photos/no contact/don't speak/keep moving) was degrading not only to the fan who had paid huge amounts of coin to get that far, but degrading to Shatner himself, signing as fast as he could without ever looking up, as if his life depended on it. I felt tremendously sorry for him, being treated that way.

I have been to tiny fan conventions run in High School auditoriums, with not even 3rd-string guests, and still had incredible fun. I've been to commercial conventions that squeezed 5,000 people into 3,000 seats with no autographs, and been satisfied. I've parked my butt at Shoreleave for more than 20 years, because the worst Shoreleave ever is still a great time. I give the guests huge amounts of credit for putting up with some of the nuttier - and more fragrant - fans without losing their smile or their lunch. Outside of Cauldron Con (which WAS a first-time con, and I give them an A for effort even if they were in way over their heads), UFC remains the most horrendously overpriced, overblown, waste of fan money and time that I have been to.
Is a con hard to put on? Yes. It's a huge undertaking. I've helped on committees for the Platinum Anniversary Con, an outgrowth of the old BASH, and was at the organizing meeting for a Connecticut Mini-con that never got off the ground. But when did we as fans, after all these years, become so desperate that we'll pay far more than we can afford for the chance to be ripped off by cons like UFC? There are really good conventions out there, of all sizes - ICON, Shoreleave, Farpoint, Balticon, DragonCon, Media West, and many more. Get something for your money. I don't mind paying a *little* more for big-name guests I'd kill to see, but not more than $10-20 over the last year's membership, and I want something else for my time and money than just squeezing into an auditorium.
Good Cons are out there. Support them. Stay away from the troubled, and usually exhorbitant, ones. Would YOU treat a guest this way? Why support rudeness in a convention? If they treat the guests this way, how do you really think you the fan will be treated?
Buyer Beware.

UFC sold their souls a long time ago. I swore I'd never go again after last year's Shatner fiasco.

They claim they are a fan convention, but they haven't been that for at least 6 or 7 years. They charge outrageous prices, treat us like cattle, and then are surprised when attendance keeps getting worse and worse each year. I lump them in the same boat as Creation conventions, they care about nothing except the bottom line.

So no, I'm not willing to cut UFC some slack, they deserve the bad press! They are NOT a fan con!

I have worked as a booking agent for events, not a sci-fi or comic show, I grant you. Cancellations happen. I have never seen talent complain with as much vitriol as on this site. I have read your works and enjoyed them but quite honestly I am shocked by the unprofessional manner in which you are carrying on. Worse still, you appear to lash out at those few folks who disagree with you. I support your right to freedom of speech but at the same time I am disappointed in you, sir. I'll no doubt be savaged for my opinion but as a writer I would have thought you would be open to the free exchange of ideas, even those that differ from yours.

Apparently cancellations never happen in the world of shiny boots, tights, and long capes. Too bad.

Sincerely, a disillusioned Peter David reader unaffiliated with United Fan Con

BTW, Peter, just read the excerpt over at startrek.com. Now I have to get that book in my hands posthaste.

*Indecent*? What the hell are you talking about?

Presumably he/she is referring to the 'can't get enough of regional conventions...' in your original post. Read selectively enough, you seem to be implying they signed you with intent to dump you after trading on your name. (But it's an unnatural reading.)

Unrelated- I had a conversation last night wherein someone said you favored the spelling 'Grey Hulk' over 'Gray Hulk.' Usenet searching brought me no joy, you always just used 'Hulk' in response to questions (almost as if you find the distinction artificial, heh) but google-in-general gives the British 'Grey' about a 30% lead.

Is there a particular spelling you favor for the Hulk? (And if yes, why?)

Ugh. How preposterous! If only there were contracts for convention appearances.

Like many people I'd love to see you at a show around this area (Nashville, in case anyone is wondering).

I sometimes get dissapointed that for the size and population of our area, we don't attract or have organizers for larger shows. But after seeing what you wrote here. I'd much rather have our smaller more intimate shows with people signing stuff for happy fans for free, than to have to pay just to get something signed.

Please don't bail on all of the regional cons. We still love you in Philly!

Hugh Casey
Philcon

"Presumably he/she is referring to the 'can't get enough of regional conventions...' in your original post. Read selectively enough, you seem to be implying they signed you with intent to dump you after trading on your name. (But it's an unnatural reading.)"

Well, let's face it: This is the second regional convention in a row that had my name in their advertising right up until the final weeks.

And, guys, these are only the examples that you know about. During my career there have been three different occasions where I was an advertised guest by conventions that didn't have me signed as a guest. The thinking is simple: List me as a guest and then, when I don't show up, claim that I canceled at the last minute. I have to tell you, I just LOVE getting hate mail from angry fans who tell me that they came to a convention just to see me and I didn't show up...and I have no idea what convention they're referring to.

So when I get jacked around by a convention, do I automatically assume malfeasance? No. But I'm not exactly quick to give the benefit of the doubt.

In the case of UFC, I believe they signed me on with the notion that I was disposable--a "safety guest," as it were. Someone they knew they could have if they couldn't get more "important" guests. Many of the guests they invited were done so subsequent to me. As a matter of economics--as a matter of professionalism--they should have been keeping a running budget and saying, "This is how much money we've committed to having Peter come, so we should keep that in mind for negotiations with future guests." Except they didn't. That alone should tell you something. They then were willing to give the "important" guests whatever they asked and then, lo and behold, no longer had money left to cover my basic expenses.

And now, on their website, they don't want to cop to that, so they come up with the notion that I don't fit into their narrow-casting of comic book programming.

PAD

"I'll no doubt be savaged for my opinion but as a writer I would have thought you would be open to the free exchange of ideas, even those that differ from yours."

I am. The irrefutable proof of this is that I don't delete postings with differing ideas.

PAD

"I have worked as a booking agent for events, not a sci-fi or comic show, I grant you. Cancellations happen. I have never seen talent complain with as much vitriol as on this site."

Just out of morbid curiosity, the talent that you book: Do they charge appearance fees? And if they are cancelled, do they receive a kill fee to make up for the cancellation?

PAD

Your behavior gets increasingly disappointing, and it is another example of how many creative people don't have sound business heads. You are taking something personally that is a business transaction, and then resorting to inane schoolboy shenanigans in a public forum. It’s quite immature.

Thank you for not deleting my earlier post, at least. Maybe this way some more open-minded people can read through the discussion and make up their own minds objectively. From what I see, though, the Cult of Personality is a scary thing, and you have people ready to back you up without question. Good for you, but although I don’t give a damn either way about United Fan Con, you have a lost a customer in me, and I certainly wouldn’t book you for a child’s birthday party with your bad attitude.

"Just out of morbid curiosity, the talent that you book: Do they charge appearance fees? And if they are cancelled, do they receive a kill fee to make up for the cancellation?

PAD"

To be frank, that is business best left between the client and the promoter, which is where it should beleft by professionals and gentlemen.

Enjoy your career, sir.

Ajay

"From what I see, though, the Cult of Personality is a scary thing, and you have people ready to back you up without question. Good for you, but although I don’t give a damn either way about United Fan Con, you have a lost a customer in me, and I certainly wouldn’t book you for a child’s birthday party with your bad attitude."

Ah, save us from the self-styled one eyed man in the kingdom of the blind.

The predictable rant goes as follows: The poster who disapproves or disagrees with me is the only clear-eyed individual. The fact that he disapproves of me provides him that clarity, Q.E.D. Anyone who agrees with me is doing so, not because they have independently arrived at that conclusion, but because they are caught up in a "cult of personality" and presumably cannot think for themselves. Instead they rely on me to do their thinking for them and then parrot my beliefs unquestioningly.

So those who disapprove of me are clear-thinkers, and those who agree with me are muzzy-headed, leaving it impossible for any rational individual to come to his own conclusion that I've been ill-used. Thus do you sweepingly insult anyone who agrees with me, insinuating that they're too stupid to think for themselves.

And you have a problem with *my* attitude? I think you're the one who needs an attitude check.

PAD

Wow.

Yes, Peter, how dare you take affront at being on the abusive end of an unprofessional business transaction? What nerve you have.

Sheesh.

"To be frank, that is business best left between the client and the promoter, which is where it should beleft by professionals and gentlemen."

Noooo, no no. You brought it up. You're the one who cited personal and professional knowledge of such things. And now you're begging off?

Allow me to answer the question for you, because we both know the truth: When such things are handled through booking agencies, you bet your ass there's fees involved. That's where the agent earns their commission. And if the booker suddenly cancels, then there are still cancellation fees that have to be paid and met.

I don't charge fees. So the conventions cancel with impunity.

When I attend a convention, I typically bring material to sell. I can make a decent amount of money selling it. Nothing on par with the actors charging $20 a picture, but it's nothing to sneeze at either. And once I accept a convention, I turn down other gigs that could conflict or are nearby in dates. So when conventions then cancel me at the last minute, that costs me money I could have earned at other conventions.

PAD

"Noooo, no no. You brought it up. You're the one who cited personal and professional knowledge of such things. And now you're begging off?"

I'm not begging off at all. Perhaps United Fan Con did crap on you from on high. Perhaps you are justified in feeling used and abused.

But that's not the point.

The point is: take it up with them! The public shouldn't hear about it. The court of public opinion is usually biased and unwieldy, which is why there are no more lynchings in the town squares.

Be. A. Professional.

You're just making yourself look silly.

Ajay, it's a bit unfair to invoke the term 'cult of personality' when you're actually discussing it on somebody's own website. Is it safe to assume that some of the folks that might read Peter David's blog could possibly be fans of his, or at least interested readers?

And just out of curiosity, why is immature for Peter to inform readers of this blog about his dis-invitation to a convention that some of them might be planning to attend because he was a guest? If somebody pre-ordered a ticket several weeks ago thinking they might meet Peter David and maybe get a few of their books signed, is it unreasonable for them to wonder why his name has been removed from the convention's guest list? I'm sorry, but 'It's just business' isn't a good enough explanation.

And as Peter has pointed out, this is hardly the first time this sort of situation has happened to him. Is it 'just business' when a convention advertises a best-selling SF/television writer thus selling X number of tickets, only to dis-invite him because they're over-extended their budget on other, more expensive guests? I too have seen this sort of thing happen on a number of occasions, where organizers will book in a couple of 'safety guests' just in case a number of their big name actors are unavailable. Quite often, those safety guests prove to be a convention's salvation when all the big name guests cancel at the 11th hour because they get a job. To suddenly dispense with them is not 'just business,' because a successful business can't afford to engage in those practices without damaging their reputations or losing deposits. The reason that some of these conventions make these decisions is because they're not run as businesses; that's why many a fan organizer has had to put a second mortgage on their house when their convention falls apart.

To Joe Nazzaro:

You expressed your opinions intelligently and politely, which is worthy of respect. Thank you. However, as I just wrote to PAD himself, it could very well be that he is justified in feeling mistreated. The bottom line is that it's none of my business, or yours, or his readership's. This is only my opinion, but he should be taking it up with them. You're overlooking the fact that the reason I'm here is because I was an interested reader, too, but there are always two sides to every story, and people appear to be too willing to jump on the bandwagon because they are fans. If this judgment offends you, I'm sorry. What bothers me the most is how this matter is being turned into a pity party in a public forum. That is what I think is the most unprofessional thing of all.

Hello,
You don't know me, I was referred here by a friend. I hope that you, instead of tagging all small conventions with the same brush, start to learn about how to pick a good convention.

I suggest that you a) ask for previous year programme books; b)look through the guest lists and contact some of the guests to ask them about how they were treated; c) ask them about their budgets -do they actually have the money; d) ask them about specifics about how and when they will fix your travel, room costs or whatever else you might be offered. From these and other similar questions you can get a sense of the con and the volunteers.

I was part of a small con and although we couldn't generally promise anything (not even room nights for everyone who was not a guest of honour) we were up front about that. When we could we did pay for more - sometimes it was only gas money, sometimes it ended up being room nights and travel. We did offer a great green room with lots of real food and special needs met. We were a general science fiction convention and we had a no honorarium rule. It didn't seem right to pay for guests when we couldn't afford room nights for everyone. I think we did well by our guests - they kept being willing to come back, which should mean something (and is another easy check on a convention).

I'm sorry about your bad experience there, but honestly, small conventions when they are well run, are my favourites. I hope you find one that will become one of yours. Conventions are nothing without their guests.

PS And before someone complains, yes, they are also nothing without their attendees, either.

Adrienne, you might want to read through the whole thread. PAD has already stated that he's attended this con several times in the past. A lack of information about the con wasn't the problem.

He's also fully aware that a well run con can be fun. It's not like he's never been to small conventions before.

This is like the government logic that says we're broke, so let's cut the library budget -- which is less than 10% of the overall budget, and meanwhile the really expensive stuff doesn't get any kind of cut at all.

Several people have asked me why I haven't gone to UFC. Well, first off, they haven't invited me. Now, if they do, I'll be declining, and pointing to this shabby treatment of my friend and colleague.

Fucknuts.

Ajay: "The point is: take it up with them! The public shouldn't hear about it. The court of public opinion is usually biased and unwieldy, which is why there are no more lynchings in the town squares."

The problem with your line of reasoning is that Peter didn't make this issue public. UFC did when they promoted Peter as one of their guests.

Furthermore, UFC is a business, not the CIA. Bad business practices result in bad publicity. Anyone who cannot cope with that reality shouldn't be in business.

If UFC wants to refute the idea that they have acted unprofessionally, they can do so by posting right here.

And Peter's logic regarding his time and money is indisputable. He commits to a convention, turns down other commitments that would conflict, and then gets the rug pulled from underneath him with too little time left to book anything else. It costs him money.

Ajay: "Be. A. Professional."

Peter has done nothing unprofessional. You can declare otherwise, just as you can declare that a circle is a square. But the circle will remain a circle no matter how much hot gas you expel about it.

To Bill Myers:

All Peter needed to say is that his appearance was cancelled. I have worked in the industry of booking talent before, as I said, not for scifi conventions, but I have never seen someone go to his blog and whine about a cancellation like this.

A circle is a circle. A square is the square. Going onto a blog and detailing all of your pain and heartache over the cancellation is childish and unprofessional. If the promoters did him wrong, they will suffer in their own way due to poor business practices. That's how I feel. You won't change my mind and I won't change yours.

But it had to be said.

Ajay: Thank you for not deleting my earlier post, at least. Maybe this way some more open-minded people can read through the discussion and make up their own minds objectively. From what I see, though, the Cult of Personality is a scary thing, and you have people ready to back you up without question.
Luigi Novi: Since it’s obvious from these comments that you’re new here, you should be advised that Peter never deletes posts from people who disagree with him. (Perhaps you’re confusing this blog with John Byrne’s forum.) He instead responds to them to explain his position, or, when the dissenter in question makes it clear that they’re not capable of constructive discussion, he ceases responding to them altogether. The only instances in which Peter deletes posts are those in which the poster posts spam or attacks upon his family.

I myself have disagreed with Peter on numerous occasions on many issues, as have many of the regulars here. Peter is assertive in explaining why he will not accept another’s position, but your accusation that there is a Cult of Personality here is unfounded, and inexcusable. If anyone here is exhibiting behavior that is unprofessional and childish, it is you, sir. At the very least, you could have looked around to see if there truly was such a cult-like system here before assuming it a priori and making that false accusation. There is nothing “intelligent” or “polite” about your decision to make that accusation without any foundation to it.

Ajay: To be frank, that is business best left between the client and the promoter, which is where it should beleft by professionals and gentlemen… The point is: take it up with them! The public shouldn't hear about it. The court of public opinion is usually biased and unwieldy, which is why there are no more lynchings in the town squares.
Luigi Novi: As Peter made clear, the reason that making this point public becomes necessary is because fans sometimes complain to him that he “cancelled at the last minute”, even at conventions where he didn’t know he was being advertised as an attendee in the first place. So at the very least, this requires him to clear the air with fans who need to be informed that he did not do this. It also serves to explain for future reference why he may not attend a particular convention.

Ajay: The bottom line is that it's none of my business, or yours, or his readership's.
Luigi Novi: That’s not your call to make. It’s Peter’s. If he has been treated in such a way that leaves a false impression in fans who think he cancelled an appearance at the last minute, then it is perfectly reasonable for him to clarify that that is not the case.

Ajay: …people appear to be too willing to jump on the bandwagon because they are fans. If this judgment offends you, I'm sorry.
Luigi Novi: If that judgment were illustrated with evidence that excluded other, more reasonable scenarios, and was not a mere ad hominem argument made toward anyone merely because they happened to agree with Peter in this instance, then it would certainly be more valid. But you did not do this. You simply assume that anyone who agrees with Peter is guilty of demagoguery, without really knowing if that’s the case.

You can confine your posts to discussing the convention matter, or you can go beyond that and cast aspersions on the possible motives that others might have for not agreeing with you. If you do the former, you’ll at least be given more credence than if you engage in the latter.

"Going onto a blog and detailing all of your pain and heartache over the cancellation is childish and unprofessional."

Detailing pain and heartache? Were you reading the same blog? PAD's post wasn't nearly as melodramatic or "whiny" as you're making it seem. Just his usual snark. You're the one making this more dramatic than it needs to be. UFC effed up and they're getting called out on it. End of story.

Ajay--you must be new here.

This is Peter David's blog. This is where Peter talks about what he's up to, and rants and raves about what bugs him. He's currently being bugged by his ill-treatment by United Fan Con, and is completely within his rights to vent. I think he trusts his readers to be aware enough to understand that these are his opinions, and take them accordingly.

I see this blog as more of a "social" space than necessarily a "work" space. Sure, he talks about his work, because, well, it takes up quite a bit of his time, but he also talks about current politics and television shows that he's only involved in as a viewer. So I don't see him under any obligation to be "professional" here. He's got an office to be "professional" in, where he does his actual work.

I would hate to think that once you reach a certain level of success, every opinion you express on the Internet has to be vetted for "professionalism." This rather puts me off the notion of becoming a full-time writer.

Well, Laura, I just reread not only the post but his comments throughout the thread. Sorry, but it's very whiny and melodramatic.

Anyway, I am out of here. I'm sure you won't miss me. I didn't do this just to flame or anything like that, I genuinely like Peter David's writing and am interested in the entire entertainment industry from a promoter/client perspective, but am disappointed with his behavior and will not be buying any of his product in the future.

Ajay-

No it didn't "have to be said". You chose to say and and everything else you have posted here.

I notice you were very careful to post in your first post that you are NOT affiliated with UFC which I will take you at your word for since I tend to do that with people on the Internet (which we all know might not be a smart move).

Now we get to have our say too.

Peter posted this here to head off the questions he was going to get in November when he was not at the convention. He does not "air" all the things he is told by fans or conventions or other professionals in the industry.

I was looking forward to going to the convention as were the girls. We had a lot of fun as a family the past two years we had gone to UFC and had recommended the convention as one that we though was a good one and we enjoyed going to.

Don't believe me? Check web log entries from both Peter and me for the past two years about the convention and our participation at the convention.

Kath

I'm still trying to figure out how this has managed to becomne a discussion.

PAD was booked to appear at a convention. (When I first read the post I thought you had accepted a year ago, but I think that's a misread. In any case I would assume you had several months notice.)

The convention changed it's mind and asked Peter not to come. Costing him money, and also affecting his reputation. (I would have to say 99.9 percent of any disappointed fans would blame PAD for not showing up)

PAD has decided on his personal site to let people know why he isn't going. And given this is the second convention in recent memory that has used his name for promotional purposes and failed to come through on their side of the bargain, PAD is getting a little annoyed at how he's being cheated.

Ajay as near as I can tell your complaint is that the public is too biased to hear PAD's account, and therefore should be told nothing as to why he wasn't attending.

[i]The point is: take it up with them! The public shouldn't hear about it. The court of public opinion is usually biased and unwieldy, which is why there are no more lynchings in the town squares.[/i]

Am I correct in saying that?

If I am then what you are essentially saying is we're too dumb and/or ignorant to be able to handle information of this nature. You do realise that's incredibly condescending don't you?

Is it my business to know if a convention is treating the talent badly? Sure it is. Same is it's my business to know if Walmart is hiring illegal immigrants and locking them in the store overnight.

If I am going to be spending money at an event, I think I have a right to know that that the event planners are people who i want to give money to.

I don't want to book off my weekend and budget my money on an event that I feel disrespects the talent. But then I ask my local comic store guy how the convention goes and if he feels it was worth attending.

Do I assume that PAD is generally being honest about his experience? Yes. Is that unfair? i certainly hope not.

Here's my interpretation of what happened. UFC had an opportunity to get someone or someones who they felt would be a big draw for their convention. The added revenue would not only cover any gap in their budget, but help them out financially for the next con. Unfortunately for whatever reason the interest wasn't as high as the convention hoped. With the projections of revenue down they had to cut the budget from somewhere, and PAD was the cheapest option they had.

Did they cancel him because they don't like him? No, and PAD never said they did.

Did PAD imply that the convention thought he was less important then the other guests who charge money for the autographs.

Yes, and in terms of the bottom line, the convention probably does see him as less important, because he's not the Hollywood guy.

PAD's position is conventions having been using his name for promotional business to help stir interest from comic buying public, then cancelling him, leaving him to deal with irate fans and loss of income, and he's not going to stay silent anymore, when that silence only makes it worse for him.

Ajay: "All Peter needed to say is that his appearance was cancelled."

Uh, no. It is entirely appropriate to publicly "call out" someone for poor business practices. If UFC believes Peter is misrepresenting the situation, they can respond right here. I can tell you from experience that Peter will not censor them unless they cross the lines Luigi mentioned in his prior post.

I doubt UFC can claim such a thing, though. Peter's initial post was pretty cut-and-dried: UFC invited him to be a guest, he accepted this commitment and therefore declined others that would have conflicted, UFC cancelled at the last minute, and that costs Peter money. I don't think any of those facts are in dispute.

Ajay: "A circle is a circle. A square is the square. Going onto a blog and detailing all of your pain and heartache over the cancellation is childish and unprofessional."

If you have to distort and mischaracterize what someone else has said in order to support your argument, you've pretty much lost. Peter cited the facts, said he is angry about being mistreated so often by small conventions, and may resort to declining their invitations from now on.

Your criticisms of Peter are actually more applicable to you than they are to him.

Ajay: "If the promoters did him wrong, they will suffer in their own way due to poor business practices."

Think about this for a moment -- and by think I mean THINK, not emote -- how can they suffer the consequences of this poor practice if no one discusses it openly???

Ajay: "That's how I feel. You won't change my mind and I won't change yours."

Well, that's where you're wrong. I maintain a very open mind. The evidence of that is in prior threads in this blog. I've changed my mind more than once when faced with an argument that was clearly superior to mine. The fact that you haven't persuaded me isn't indicative of a closed mind on my part -- it's indicative of a weak argument on your part.

Ajay: "But it had to be said."

No, it didn't. But I'm getting the feeling this is less about principle and more about you getting a thrill from taking swipes at Peter David. A man with whom I've disagreed in the past, by the way, sometimes quite vigorously. But in this case, unless you can prove that something he has said is false, he's just plain right and you're not.

as ps i'd say he also posted as a warning to other conventions who would look to book him, that he will not take any shabby treatment.

Ajay, f the promoters did him wrong, they will suffer in their own way due to poor business practices. all PAD is doing is telling people about their poor business practices, why is that not allowed.

If i go into a Best Buy and the salesman treats me like crap, then am I considered whiny if I tell my friends that this guy at the Best Buy was a jerk?

I do think it's possible PAD is wrong when he says he was a safety guest, and that it is possible they expected the presales to help cover the budget shortfall, but UFC is certainly free to state their position if that's the case.

In any case i think overspending in hopes of making it up later is a bad sign, and it's certainly not a good thing to do to a guest who has been to your convention more than once.

wowza! hey peter, matman from secret identity. i was the one who helped organize the comic room at fan con for the past few years. after last years show, i told the organizers i'd never do it again because of the way the comic creators and my guests were treated! after reading your post, i did the right thing by getting out!

Contract alternative #2 that avoids collection/suing issue:

$750 signing/reservation/appearance fee that is due upon signing or some date certain before the event.

And a clause that the fee is waived or paid back upon/after your appearance or if you had to cancell.

I don't know whether the finances of the con would allow for this, but it would put them in the position of honoring your reservation or not getting their $ back - "cutting PAD screws our rebate!"

AJAY:

This "thread" is no more un-professional than one person saying to another "Whatever you do , Don't got to ABC AUTOMOTIVE for your car repair." If someone agreed to fix your car for $X.XX and then said "Sorry , Don't bring us your crap in here , we can make more money on this Cadillac", you'd be plenty pissed off. And what's more, you'd do whatever you could to tell everyone you know (and admittedly, some jerks who you don't know who just don't get the concept of "blogging").

I don't blame PAD at all for making sure a questionable and un-professional program get's it's proper due and everyone goes somewhere else. And no, I don't "blindly" agree with everything PAD says , simply because he's a friend. I read this 'cause he's a freind. I agree with him because I feel he's right. I WANT to know about his moral outrage, whether it's UFC or ORLANDO or VULCON or CREATION or even George Bush. Or even AJAY.

I'm really concerned that you've decided to stop buying his books... I'm sure his publisher is on his phone right now telling him to knock the shit off and get professional. It's not the first time someone's personality was in conflict with his writing talent. God knows Heinlein was a bit eccentric and had a questionable public persona. I still read his books.

But I emplore you. Please stop buying Peter David's stuff. Pete. When I see you at Farpoint, I'll buy two of whatever to make up for this a$$hole.

Be. A. Professional.

Find. A. Mirror.

For what it's worth regarding putting a cancellation clause in your contract in the future: you don't actually have to enforce these things to make them worthwhile. The mere presence of such a clause in the contract would make organizers think twice before cancelling you on a whim. And if the organizers are unwilling to sign a contract including such a clause, then you're probably better off skipping the convention.

And as for Philcon: you can trust those people to make good on their promises. I know the organizers personally, and I will personally beat them about the head and shoulders with my baseball bat (foam rubber) if they cancel on you. :^)

"No, you didn't piss me off, but at this point if I were approached by any small convention I'd probably just reject it out of hand. Who needs this? PAD"

To say you are not going to accept an invitation to a small con because of 2 incidents seems a little like overkill to me.

When someone asks you to come to their convention, check them out. Ask around to your buddies, post on here, that sort of thing. There are plenty of good, honet convention organizers out there that don't just so happen to live in San Diego or New York or whathaveyou.

But then again, who am *I* to tell you how to handle your professional appearances? :-)

PAD has every right to complain if he feels as if he's been wronged. Though, personally, I don't think being told 3 weeks before the con is exactly "last minute".

By the way, am I the only one hoping UFC says something, anything, about what Pad said??

I wouldn't go so far as Ajay, but I do think there's an overwrought quality to all of this. Most anyone who is self-employed or does contractual work has experienced this sort of thing. People screw up.

In PAD's shoes I would not have posted this, because the fear that he will "vent" about mishaps might discourage other people from associating with him.

I think Ihnatko's idea of an appearance contract makes more and more sense. Yeah, you'd have to sue them to enforce it if they breached it and didn't pay you, but it's also possible that they'd at least be honorable enough to pay you if they're forced to cancel for some reason.

Plus, cancelling you and then NOT paying you the fee adds a whole other layer of bad publicity that they may think twice about, even if you don't take them to court.

At any rate, it'll weed out the conventions that don't take you seriously. As long as the terms aren't too draconian, I think a sensible well-run convention would have no problems signing such an agreement. And, as Ihnatko pointed it, if they don't even have their shit together enough to sign and return the thing, it probably isn't a convention you want to spend your time on . . .

Wow, thanks, Ajay, for helping inform us all as to what a blog should be for. I'll make sure to use my personal blog...should I ever decide to creat one...for only professional, non-personal things. I'll certainly refrain from putting my opinion on my blog, because who wants to see personal opinions on personal blogs?

Yeesh, you'd think "blog" was short for something like "web log," or some other kind of personal diary that you can share with others on line.

I like to think of this place in particular as PAD's extended den. He invites any and all to hang around and chat. It's not a public forum, but it's not especially closed off, either. There's a small amount of regulation, but very little, if any, censoring, unlike just about all other blogs I've been to. To that extend, this isn't PAD going down to the village square to call out the UFC folks. Heck, he's not made one suggestion (although at least one non-PAD post has) that other guests cancel because of this act. To me, that's a pretty civil act.

As for professionalism...what does that even mean? So-called professionals do some fairly mean, maybe even downright evil, things in this world. Check out the Darfur investment ad I saw on TV this morning.

Off-topic a little...

PAD, do you have your con schedule planned for next year yet? We made it to Wizard World Chicago this year, and I didn't see you listed, which bummed me out greatly. I'd still love to get my Death of Jean DeWolf issues signed by you and say "hi." I know they're moving WW Chicago up at least a month so it's not so close to Gen Con. We had a really good time at WW, and actually having some artists that I know...not having been too involved in comics the past 10 years...would really add to our day.

The biggest problem that I continue to face when I am being victimized is learning what my life lesson in it is, and how long I'm going to choose to remain a victim. In a way, it goes back to that old idea that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over and expecting a different result. Yes, I get screwed over from time to time, but if I choose to not change my ways, I will run into people who will take advantage of my good will, good nature and generousity. So, I can stay the path and get upset the next time "x" happens, or I can choose to take measures to change the outcome.

What can I do to support you in this experience?

"I wouldn't go so far as Ajay, but I do think there's an overwrought quality to all of this. Most anyone who is self-employed or does contractual work has experienced this sort of thing. People screw up.

In PAD's shoes I would not have posted this, because the fear that he will "vent" about mishaps might discourage other people from associating with him."

Well, in my thoughts there's a world of difference between Joe Contractor and a Name Creator who carries a following and audience with him from project to project, and who has shown a pretty good amount of success in crossing over between mediums. As PAD's stated, he's not just some comic book guy. In the world of comics, he's a pretty Big Name. Outside of comics, he's someone you can include in the same sentence as the likes of Joss Whedon and not get laughed at by your audience.

And maybe it's good that he vents like this, so that other struggling cons that might not have the budget to invite him don't issue an invite, advertise for months, sell non-refundable tickets (some at least that were influenced, if not outright sold because of said advertisement), and then uninvite said guest a mere two weeks before the event.

Lingster, were PAD here making the same statements months before the event, I'd agree with you. It wouldn't be a big deal. But that's not the case. It's not as though the UFC folks just last week looked at their budget and said "oh, crap, we don't have enough to pay all the expenses for all our guests...we need to cancel." Even the worst run organization would realize their monetary constraints long before this time. They used PAD's name for as long as possible to get the most out of his name, and then dumped him on short notice. I'd be pissed, too, if only because my family had been looking forward to the trip. Add in the business implications, and I think maybe you can start to see why PAD's a little steamed over this.

You need a lecture agent.

Hmmm. My belief that not only does Peter have the right to issue such comments about UFC, but as a professional, he must. If he does not, his fans attending UFC who have carted books and comics and dvds for his signature are going to blame him. If Peter kept quiet, he could potentially permanently alienated his customers.

By the way, three weeks notice of cancellation is "the last minute" when it is too late to replace one con appearance with another.

Think of it this way, UFC not only cheated Peter and his fans by the late cancellation, but cheated another convention from the opportunity of booking Peter for the same weekend.

"In PAD's shoes I would not have posted this, because the fear that he will "vent" about mishaps might discourage other people from associating with him."

I have no problem with a convention balking at the idea of inviting me because they may look bad should they subsequently dump me from their line-up. No problem with that at all.

PAD

Ajay,

In case you’re still reading, try thinking before you post. You’re not only wrong on several of your points, you’re also insulting.

There’s no cult of personality here. Fans of Peter come here and discuss things. Do we agree with him sometimes? Yeah. Do we disagree with him at other times? Yeah. I agreed with him strongly on this topic do to past personal experiences like this. I’ve disagreed with him a number of times before. Hell, we were having a boarderline pissing contest for a day or so back in the Poopypaints thread. Peter is, and he’ll love this soooo much, sometime irrelevant to the blog outside of hosting it. Seriously, read some past threads. Peter throws out a topic, it plays itself out, Peter moves on to a new topic and the inmates then take over the asylum and discuss matters that Peter never brought up and, in some cases, hold absolutely no interest to him at all.

Second, this is Peter’s blog. He posts casually here. If he wants to give a reason for why he did something or elaborate on why something was done to him, then he has every right to do so and do it in any manner that he so chooses. It doesn’t reflect in the least bit on his professionalism.

Third, what was done to him was shitty as hell. He was invited as a guest months ago. That means that any offers he got from other conventions or for special appearances, some of which may have been more lucrative for him, he had to turn down. Any event that might have come up since then that required reservations and could have been a good family outing would have to be turned down. Any other plans he had for the days just before and just after the con will have been planned around his expected trips down and back with all that this would entail. And now, two weeks out, he’s blithely informed that he’s not needed after all.

Let me tell you why this irks me. It’s not because I like Peter, Peter’s work or am somehow in a cult of personality. It’s because I’ve been there. When I was in my late teens and early twenties, I worked for a small construction company. We only got paid when we worked. Well, there were several times when we had jobs lined up that fell through at the last minute. When that happened, not only did we not get paid for the job that was no longer there, but, if the notice was too short, we couldn’t get anything else lined up. That hit our wallets. It was also annoying as hell in regards to our personal life. I missed out on a couple of good concerts and one really great NWA event at the Coliseum because I had to work and, when the word came down that the gig was called off, I either couldn’t get tickets anymore or I couldn’t get tickets that would have me anywhere near the seating area of my friends that were going.

Well, UFC did that to Peter. They also did it in a poor way. He was, as he pointed out above, invited prior to several other guests. They should have kept an eye on the money they were handing out and, barring that, they should have cut the last person that they asked to attend rather then someone who they have been stringing along for months now. I’d feel this way if the person were Peter David, John Byrne, Gary Groth or even you.

As to UFC eventually getting what it deserves in the end if it’s conducting itself poorly… Can I ask you a question? How will they get what they deserve in the end if no one, by the Ajay Standards of Professional Conduct rules, is allowed to point out when UFC has treated them shabbily? If the only word on this had come from UFC and simply stated that Peter David was no longer attending without elaboration, who’s to know why he wasn’t there.

You didn’t think your position through very well and you were insulting. Bravo on your being one of the “more open-minded people” out there under what can be only called the loosest and most inaccurate definition of the term.

bobb alfred wrote:

...there's a world of difference between Joe Contractor and a Name Creator who carries a following and audience with him from project to project...

Why would there be a difference? Expediency may oblige you to treat important people better than normal people, but your ethics should pull you in the opposite direction.

bobb alfred also wrote:

It's not as though the UFC folks just last week looked at their budget and said "oh, crap, we don't have enough to pay all the expenses for all our guests...we need to cancel."

See, I think that's probably exactly what happened. There's no shortage of either, but I think there's a lot more incompetence in the world than malice.

PAD wrote:
I have no problem with a convention balking at the idea of inviting me because they may look bad should they subsequently dump me from their line-up. No problem with that at all.

You're assuming that only "bad actors" will reach a negative conclusion about you. Some honest people may conclude you're in the wrong (i.e. "three weeks is ample notice"), while other people may conclude that you're in the right but made a mountain out of a molehill.

Lingster: "Expediency may oblige you to treat important people better than normal people, but your ethics should pull you in the opposite direction."

Yeah... I'll point out to you what I posted just before your last post. They had him on the hook for months, he would have had to, and likely did, turn other things down and worked his plans around this, they contacted other people after confirming him and then cut him loose with very short notice.

You wanna talk "expediency" and "ethics" here? The only expediency shown here was in the manner that UFC cut Peter to make up for their screw up for booking other guests after Peter that they didn't have the cash for. The only ethics that shows on UFC's part is a lack thereof.

Just to follow up on what you were saying Jerry, the convention website also announces the presence of three so-called 'bonus guests.' The use of that terminology would suggest they were added the guest list after the main guests were already invited and confirmed. Otherwise, I presume they would just be called 'guests.' At any rate, it would seem reasonably safe to infer that these bonus guests were invited long after Peter, who said he was invited way back in November. Since all these of those BGs come from LA, I would think travel expenses alone would add up to a couple of thousand dollars.

By the way, having just written the above, I went back on the convention site in question to see how these bonus guest were being described, just in case these people are paying their own way and are using the sale of photos and other merchandise to offset their expenses thus not costing the convention a dime. Other than a few differences in autograph/photo session policies, there is nothing to suggest that the con isn't paying their expenses as well. I'm simply querying the terminology and why a 'bonus guest' would jump the queue ahead of a previously invited guest.

And to follow up on somebody's previous point about why it's important to bring this sort of unprofessional behavior to light, I'm reminded of Wizard's attempt not too long to hold a convention down south on the same weekend as a long-established and very well-regarded con had long been announced. After news of this attempted coup began coming to light, comic professionals came out of the woodwork to support the established convention- I think a few of them went so far as to say they would pay their own way to be there. In the end, Wizard backed down and pulled out, but if this bad bahavior had not been brought to life through various forums, I suspect the results would not have been as positive.

UFC IS A OLNEY.

My understanding is that anyone attempting to post to the "Peter David" topic over at the UFC website is being thwarted in that endeavor.

I wonder if anyone here who accuses me of trying to stifle disagreement is going to hold UFC to a similar standard of behavior?

I have to say, this really saddens me considering what a good time the family had at previous UFCs.

PAD

From what I see, though, the Cult of Personality is a scary thing, and you have people ready to back you up without question. Good for you, but although I don’t give a damn either way about United Fan Con, you have a lost a customer in me, and I certainly wouldn’t book you for a child’s birthday party with your bad attitude.

When a lot of people think you're wrong it's not automatically because they are in the sway of a personality cult.

The idea that PAD can make any statement he wants and it will be accepted by we. the PAD lemmings, indicates you are new to this forum. Why, even the occasional conservative has been known to show up here daring to disagree with our host's politics (whereupon they are delivered a sound thrashing the likes of which they shall long remember and sent whimpering on their way).

Out of curiosity, just what is it that PAD does at children's parties? Balloon animals? Acrobatics? Recite saucy limericks?

The point is: take it up with them! The public shouldn't hear about it. The court of public opinion is usually biased and unwieldy, which is why there are no more lynchings in the town squares.

It became a public issue when UFC advertised him as a guest for people who wanted to buy their nonrefundable tickets.

Dude, I have no idea what your agenda is but this is such a no-brainer it's kind of natural to suspect some motive for slamming PAD on this. You're not being reasonable (and your "cult of personality" preemptive snark only makes it obvious that you are aware of this).

I genuinely like Peter David's writing and am interested in the entire entertainment industry from a promoter/client perspective, but am disappointed with his behavior and will not be buying any of his product in the future.

Your right. Your loss.

I'm still trying to figure out how this has managed to become a discussion.

I know. It's nuts. There isn't even a grey or gray area here. That's what probably makes it a discussion--someone says "Bush sucks!" and someone else says "No he doesn't." and it's not really worth commenting on because, well, they both have their points. But this...I just don't see Ajay's point and I guess I never will, being as he has left the cult compound.

To that extend, this isn't PAD going down to the village square to call out the UFC folks.

And if he does I hope he makes sure it isn't the other UFC that shows up. He's slimmed down quite a bit but my money would still be on Chuck Liddel.

On topic/off topic question/vote here.

The UFC has Adrian Paul listed as a quest who cancelled based on professional commitments. I'm not sure that this is true. We have two options here.

1) Adrian Paul had a commitment elsewhere that popped up at the last minute (filming running over, pick ups, etc.) and had to bow out. The story is true.

2) Adrian Paul is in hiding ever since he sinned against mankind by allowing the Sci-Fi Channel to unleash Highlander: The Source on an innocent world. He tried to make amends with the serviceable movie Wraiths of Roanoke, but the damage was done. He's just too ashamed to allow himself to be seen in public ever again.

I go with #2.

Jerry, please don't mention the existence of Highlander: The Source. I'm trying to repress those memories.

Let it out, man, let it out! Repressing that much trauma and pain isn't good for a man!!

Do you people have any idea how much it costs to run a small convention? The cost of the actors alone runs into the 5-figure range, PER ACTOR. They do NOT come because they love their fans, they come because they are paid. Peter, sorry about you being cancelled, but honestly, you'd be better served attending an Arisia or Boskone than a UFC. Not that you aren't a great writer, but the fans of UFC are there for the actors. It's not a sci-fi con, it's an actors and celebrity con. Also, United Fan Con is a mom-n-pop convention with no backing from any big sponsor like Wizard or DC or any corporation. The prices for the convention are exactly what the convention runners pay for everything, divided by the number of paying attendees they hope will come. This is a not-for-profit labor of love. UNLIKE those holier than though non-profit 501c3 conventions that charge their attendees the same amounts, authors who make their money from the books they sell, and somehow get the hotels to waiver all the food and beverage corkage fees, with the plea that they're just a little non-profit trying to educate and make the world a better place. Peter, come on, UFC's pop was very good to you the past couple of years, even working hard to get your daughter a one-on-one interview with Bill Shatner. Peter, I understand the need to vent, especially since this was in the wake of another con cancelling you, but to let this forum degenerate into a way to make a nice man who just makes conventions to make other fans like himself happy is just wrong, just plain WRONG.

Oh that was so painful. I watched it by myself because Peter was off on a trip. He got back and I told him that there can only be one and it is still the first movie.

I did enjoy the TV series for various reasons and I even watched Highlander:The Raven.

But I think that last movie cured me of needed to see any of this series again ever.

I want my time back and the necks of those responsible for my wasting my time in such a spectacularly bad fashion.

Gosh Mary, if what you say is true and the fans indeed come to this particular convention for the actors as you say, here's a question for you: why did they invite Peter in the first place?

And I can't speak for anybody else on this forum, but I know how much it costs to run a small convention. I've been to hundreds of them, in several countries, as a guest, as a fan and as a volunteer. I've helped provide guests for many conventions and acted as intermediary so I've heard just about every deal, good and bad. I even ran my own one-day convention in the late eighties, just because I was so annoyed at seeing how so many organizers were doing a piss-poor job and wanted to show that it wasn't exactly rocket science. I sat down and made a business plan, I invited my guests, I created the advertising (before the Internet made life a bit easier) and we broke even with a little bit left over. So I would like to think that the observations on this thread were made from an informed point of view. I don't see anything in your post that should change anybody's mind, let alone Peter's. For somebody who usually gives good value for money, for far less than five figures, I think he's owed a bit of common courtesy. Even if his daughter got a Bill Shatner interview, and having done a few of those over the years, I wouldn't place a huge value on it.

Kath, Jerry, you guys are right, that movie sucked so hard.

But I still think it was better than the second movie.

I'm just amazed that the series was as good as it was after two bad sequels. Yet everything that came after the series has been so bad, even the recently released Highlander Anime. You'd think that if either it would all be good or it would all be bad, but somehow this franchise is so inconsistant. They do something good, then make you pay for it for years. It's the Ike Turner of sci-fi.

And PAD, if we're too off topic... I blame Kath!

Ugh. I've tried to erase Highlander: The Source from my memory. From the wife that came out of now to the end where they don't even f*@king tell you what the Source is, it was worse than even the theatrical release of Highlander: The Quickening.

I think just about anything in the Highlander saga is better than the 2nd movie although the Source was really pushing it....

Joe N. wrote: "Gosh Mary, if what you say is true and the fans indeed come to this particular convention for the actors as you say, here's a question for you: why did they invite Peter in the first place?"

Gee, Joe, maybe it was because they thought Peter was a nice guy, who they liked and thought would enjoy the UFC, like he seemed to the past couple times. And maybe, just maybe they didn't think he'd be the kind of guy to take this to a fan-forum. Honestly, I didn't think he was that kind of guy.

To turn to SciFi (and away from Ajay bashing, fun as it may be), I'm always amazed at the difference in quality between their tv series, produced (BATTLESTAR GALACTICA) and obtained (DOCTOR WHO), and their movies and specials, from FRANKENFISH to BOA VS. PYTHON, to the latest HIGHLANDER.

What always bugged me about HIGHLANDER (and a spoiler for anyone who hasn't seen the first movie; in the last 20 years or so) is that the movie ENDED DUNCAN'S TIME AS AN IMMORTAL. He slew the last immortal, he won the prize and became mortal, and that is the end of that. Or it should have been. Instead, they adopted the Slasher Movie Selective Amnesia trick, where even if the otherwise unstoppable killer is defeated with the one thing/technique that will get rid of them FOR GOOD, they'll still come back in the sequel. Heck, they brought back Connery's character after he was most definitively killed! This series should have quit when it was ahead: before it became a series.

Actually, the first Highlander movie ended Conner's time as an immortal, not Duncan. It should have been a complete story there, but it became a cult hit, so the sequel was inevitable.

I went to UFC last year to meet PAD (ok and Grace Park) but it was a pretty poorly organized show. There weren't even any signs directing people where to go. And when I came off of the elevator on the "wrong side" on the promoters started yelling at for "trying to sneak in." This type of behavior seems par for the course for these shows that centered around celebrity autographs. I'm just glad there are plenty of straight up comics shows in the New England area where you don't have to shell out tons of money to treated like crap.

I used to be on the UFC staff, so let me clarify what they mean by "Bonus Guest." A "Bonus Guest" is someone who is there to sell autographs, and whose signature is not included in your ticket price. The convention doesn't pay them a dime--they earn their money that weekend from sales at their table. "Featured Guests" are those whose autograph is included in your ticket price, and who the convention is paying to attend.

No, there's no way that the source is better then Highlander 2. Not saying 2 was great, but, once I decided that it wasn't really a Highlander film, there was a short period where I good kinda-sorta enjoy the thing.

Source just blew. I kept waiting for any part of it to start getting good or to start making sense and that moment never even came close to coming.

If nothing else, when I went back in to work a few days later, it was emphasized to me just how bad that film was. I like Highlander. I’m a fan. I loved the first film and liked the series. I work with two guys who are Highlander fanatics. And I mean FAH-NAT-TICS. If it’s related to Highlander, they will own it. They make some Trekkies look like people with an only passing interest in their favorite show. These two would likely buy a steaming pile of poo if you stuck a Highlander sticker on it and claimed that it was an exact replica of the load that any of the film’s villains dropped just as the realized that they were about to get it in the neck. Fanatics. These guys also grew up on and liked the schlock films that were churned out in the 80’s like Deathstalker, Barbarian Queen and Gor enough to buy the former two when they came out on DVD a few years ago.

They hated Source. They flew into cursing fits when talking about how much they hated. They flat stated that there is no force on Earth that will move them to Buy the DVD or keep it if they get it as a gift. The film was an unholy abomination against the series (and that’s a quote) that should never have been made.

But they’ll buy anything related to Highlander (until now) and they dig schlock like Deathstalker.

Now, to me, that says everything about just how bad that thing really was.

"Gee, Joe, maybe it was because they thought Peter was a nice guy, who they liked and thought would enjoy the UFC, like he seemed to the past couple times. And maybe, just maybe they didn't think he'd be the kind of guy to take this to a fan-forum. Honestly, I didn't think he was that kind of guy."

Well, when they informed me that they were dumping me from the roster, I made very clear to them that I wasn't going to cover for them. I said I was going to be honest with the fans, as I typically am, and tell them that UFC was reneging on its deal with me because they were prioritizing their money for guests who command sizable appearance fees and $20/$30 a throw for pictures...as opposed to me, who basically asks nothing more than expenses being covered. And they said they totally understood and they were okay with my being truthful with the fans.

I had no idea, of course, that they would be less than truthful when announcing it on their own website. They couldn't find "enough comic book guests." I've written for every single aspect that their high-powered guests have been involved with: Doctor Who, Star Trek, B5, Battlestar Galactica. Granted, I haven't written "Happy Days," but I have written kids books. I can speak with authority on any subject covered there. To claim that it was because I couldn't be programmed when it was in fact all about money...it's ridiculous. I'll bet you if I charged for my autographs and kicked a portion of it over to the convention, lo and behold, I'd be attractive to them. I just wonder how fans would feel about it. Because considering the number of fans who came to me for autographs at UFCs past and looked so relieved that I wasn't charging, I'd have to think they wouldn't be jazzed.

What "kind of guy" am I? Well, I'm not suing them for breach of contract. I'm not suing them for false advertising. I'm not bringing them to small claims court and demanding recompense for the money I could have made there. People are e-mailing me war stories of being ill-used by UFC in the past and I'm not posting them. I'm simply the kind of guy who's had conventions promote him and them dump him two months running and is getting kind of sick of it.

PAD

I wanted to meet you at HeroesCon in Charlotte last summer, but Marvel seemed to have you locked up and away from fans. I wonder if now you will not ever come back to HeroesCon? Sorry, it was a bad trip in terms of the friend I was with and the schedule you were held to just added to the suck factor of what was an up and down trip. I really did want to meet ya though.

My schedule at Heroes Con was designed entirely by Shelton. I assume that he put it together in conjunction with Marvel. But I tried to be as available as humanly possible to fans. All i can tell you is that there are conventions I attend where every single minute is accounted for: Either at panels or at autographing tables, and STILL fans at the conventions claim they couldn't find me.

Oh, for the record, UFC is now permitting angry posters to comment on the thread about me.

PAD

"And maybe, just maybe they didn't think he'd be the kind of guy to take this to a fan-forum"

Oh, and just in the interest of accuracy: I didn't "take this to a fan-forum." I wrote about it on m blog. I didn't bring it up on any of the half-dozen or so fan forums that I frequent.

PAD

Ajay: That's how I feel. You won't change my mind and I won't change yours.
Luigi Novi: And yet we're the ones practicing a "cult of personality".

Anyone who admits a priori that they will absolutely not change their mind ever, no matter what, is obviously far more guilty of this than anyone else here.

AJAY: You concede in your first post that you know nothing about the logistics of running this sort of event, and then proceed to take PAD to task as unprofessional for complaining about unprofessional behaviour on the part of the organisers.

To prarphrase The Princess Bride: I don't think you're saying what you think you're saying.

MARY: Having been part of the bid to bring the World Science Fiction Convention to Atlanta in '86 (and, i must say, being rather repelled by the sheer mercenariness of a goodly part of the media-con business), and of two (SF) DeepSouthCons (one of which i chaired) and several other SF conventions, i can say i have some idea of the general logistics of such events, and i will state, flatly and categorically, that i do not think PAD is overreacting here.

Were i PAD and this sort of thing happened to me, i might or might not post it in my regular public blog, but i would certainly make the convention's unprofessional (or in the context of a completely not-for-profit fannish convention, their extreme discourtesy) and the damage done to me known in any and every forum where my fellow likely-to-be-contacted-by-these-jerks potential guests as a warning to others.

And, yes, as PAD points out, i would also make sure that my fans knew that it wasn't my last-minute decision resulting in my not being there after the convention had extracted every bit of potential publicity they could from the use of my name.

Mary Dumas: "Not that you aren't a great writer, but the fans of UFC are there for the actors."

Multiple posters in the "Peter David" in the UFC's own online forum have stated that Peter's advertised appearance was their motivation for attending. At least one poster purchased non-refundable tickets for that reason.

Mary Dumas: "Also, United Fan Con is a mom-n-pop convention with no backing from any big sponsor like Wizard or DC or any corporation."

That doesn't absolve the convention's organizer of the responsibility to act professionally. It doesn't give him the right to waste Peter's time and money.

Mary Dumas: "Peter, I understand the need to vent, especially since this was in the wake of another con cancelling you, but to let this forum degenerate into a way to make a nice man who just makes conventions to make other fans like himself happy is just wrong, just plain WRONG."

No, what is just plain wrong is for a convention organizer to ask Peter to commit to an event and then pull the rug out from underneath him at the last minute. And it is just plain wrong for UFC to have lured people into buying non-refundable tickets by promoting Peter's appearance, and then reneging.

I have to echo what other posters have said: I don't know how this became a discussion. It's such a simple, crystal-clear issue.

Gee, Joe, maybe it was because they thought Peter was a nice guy, who they liked and thought would enjoy the UFC, like he seemed to the past couple times.

They thought correct on both points. So?

And maybe, just maybe they didn't think he'd be the kind of guy to take this to a fan-forum.

So you're saying they invited him with the thought that they could always cancel him and suffer no consequences? (Said consequences being that their actions would become known).

And you are somehow surprised that this would piss PAD off?

I'm getting the feeling that some fans are so used to being ill treated by con organizers that they are unable to understand how someone else can take offense to the same shabby treatment. In fact, they resent it when someone speaks out. Interesting.

>The point is: take it up with them! The public shouldn't hear about it. The court of public opinion is usually biased and unwieldy, which is why there are no more lynchings in the town squares.

If I were a pro and were invited to such events, I'd certainly want to know if one group of organizers were treating people shabbily, if only not to waste my time on people who didn't deserve it - not to mention avoid risking a similar fate. And if people who are badly treated don't 'vent', how am I going to find out?

>I don't think being told 3 weeks before the con is exactly "last minute".

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but you never ran a convention, have you? Probably also don't travel much I'm guessing.

>you'd think "blog" was short for something like "web log,"

Silly me, here I thought that was a BBS. Oh, wait...!

P.S. Mr. David ... any running tally yet on the two favourite X-Factor characters?

They didn't have enough comic book guests so they cancelled Peter? Do you need more than Peter? Or is his resume so brief they're afraid no one will know his name?

Get real, Mary.

Well they have started the smear campaign as to how evil and wicked Peter is to staff and the convention of course this is a person who was working another convention that was not UFC but happened on the UFC fan message board.

Peter goes above and beyond at a convention both for the staff and the fans. He signs stuff in corridors and at the end of panels. He answers questions. He does not go into hiding when he isn't doing something for the convention. He is out and about. You can find him as anyone who has attended a convention he has been at can attest.

I am just sick about this whole thing and am rather peeved that some people are trying to make Peter out to be the bad guy because he spoke up.

We would love to come to The Boston Comic Book Spectacular. February 10. Expenses paid in advance?

UFC did the same thing last year when they started pulling items out of guests goodie bags when projected sales were not met. Again.

Comic Book fans can now attend the Boston Comic Book Spectacular November 4th with special guests Norm Breyfogle and Ken Kelly. It's the last Boston Comic Book Convention of 2007.

Peter,

Having looked over this topic, I don't have a lot to add - although I prob'ly will anyway, being long winded.

But I did want to let you know that I support you, as I would support anyone who had an agreement and it was suddenly canceled without notification or justification - and without compensation.

(I would like to add that this IS my own opinion, and it would be the same no matter who this happened to - John Byrne, Neil Gaiman, Rob Leifeld, Gene Colan - whomever. "Cult of personality" doesn't enter into it... brrr.)

It is a shame that there is no reasonable recourse for you, save to start turning down conventions; even considering how available you are, I suspect that there are a lot more fans who would love more of your time, and who would love to just meet you. Shame that there's only 24 hours in a day, eh? Maybe you should start letting people take you to breakfast, or having lunch signings! :)

It's ALSO a shame that some of these people - including some of my fellow posters - do not realize that you are an entertainment professional, and that comic/sci-fi/movie conventions are NOT for fun for you; they are an aspect of your JOB. This is how you earn money you live on. (Or to put it another way, grossly - how happy would a waiter at Applebee's be if he was scheduled four days in one week, showed up for his shift, and then was told, "Oh, we don't need you tonight. Go home. You won't be paid." Same exact scenario, I suppose...)

The only suggestion I could give you - and it's probably not viable - is the one of the days when contracts and agreements and such weren't often honored. If you agree to an appearance - get half the cash up front, half when you're done. That way, if you get dumped, at least you've cleared a little.

And if the conventions say, "We don't do that," then you have TWO perfect recourses - citing both, "I've been unceremoniously axed before, so I have to protect myself" and "Well, I don't do it any other way either."

Good luck, Peter, and I hope that you deal with some classier and more honest individuals in the future.

I remain,
Sincerely,

Eric L. Sofer
The Silver Age Fogey
xPeter,

Having looked over this topic, I don't have a lot to add - although I prob'ly will anyway, being long winded.

But I did want to let you know that I support you, as I would support anyone who had an agreement and it was suddenly canceled without notification or justification - and without compensation.

(I would like to add that this IS my own opinion, and it would be the same no matter who this happened to - John Byrne, Neil Gaiman, Rob Leifeld, Gene Colan - whomever. "Cult of personality" doesn't enter into it... brrr.)

It is a shame that there is no reasonable recourse for you, save to start turning down conventions; even considering how available you are, I suspect that there are a lot more fans who would love more of your time, and who would love to just meet you. Shame that there's only 24 hours in a day, eh? Maybe you should start letting people take you to breakfast, or having lunch signings! :)

It's ALSO a shame that some of these people - including some of my fellow posters - do not realize that you are an entertainment professional, and that comic/sci-fi/movie conventions are NOT for fun for you; they are an aspect of your JOB. This is how you earn money you live on. (Or to put it another way, grossly - how happy would a waiter at Applebee's be if he was scheduled four days in one week, showed up for his shift, and then was told, "Oh, we don't need you tonight. Go home. You won't be paid." Same exact scenario, I suppose...)

The only suggestion I could give you - and it's probably not viable - is the one of the days when contracts and agreements and such weren't often honored. If you agree to an appearance - get half the cash up front, half when you're done. That way, if you get dumped, at least you've cleared a little.

And if the conventions say, "We don't do that," then you have TWO perfect recourses - citing both, "I've been unceremoniously axed before, so I have to protect myself" and "Well, I don't do it any other way either."

Good luck, Peter, and I hope that you deal with some classier and more honest individuals in the future.

I remain,
Sincerely,

Eric L. Sofer
The Silver Age Fogey
Moderator for Captain Comics Board
www.captaincomics.us

This should read:

We would love to have Peter come to The Boston Comic Book Spectacular. February 10.

As a guest.

Actually Peter, we would love to have you November 4th in Boston if you were planning on coming to New England to visit your daughter at school while here for the con.

You could even drop by UFC to give them the razz.

We would, of, pay your expenses.

We have never disinvited anybody.

We would, of course, pay your expenses.

Yep, that last post in the Peter David thread on the UFC forums is certainly stomach turning...I guess their policy is to spin as much as possible and hope that people go for their version.

Gah.

He does not go into hiding when he isn't doing something for the convention. He is out and about. You can find him as anyone who has attended a convention he has been at can attest.

Absolutely true. I was once two urinals down from PAD at WWT. ;)

UFC IS A OLNEY.

Not quite.... At least they've had successful shows.

If you want to know about Rick Olney, go here: http://www.unscrewedcomic.com/index.php

Or here: http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=156451

Sorry for taking this off-topic.

Kevin-
I'm glad you posted this to clear up what I thought was a typo.
Kath

There's a lot of stuff that goes into planning conventions, yes? I'm sure the people running them have more balls in the air than a thousand NFL kickers all kicking at the same time. Mistakes can happen. But if they do, be upright about it and say, "We screwed up." Don't turn it into "Well, PAD's a jerk and didn't wanna play with us!" For a lot of people, say "Look, we messed up," is enough. And then we wouldn't have this conversation. I've never actually met PAD, more's my loss, but just from interacting with him here I can tell he's the sort that I'd have no trouble bringing into my house and telling him to put his feet up. (Just don't drink the chocolate milk, that's the kid's.) Most of the rest of you, too. This has just gotten ugly.

Jerry, your friends at work seem like a good way of getting rid of Ian's, er, leavings. Just get some stickers, man.

Cult of personality, my fat Irish butt. Although, this woulda been easier to type without the darn robe falling over my eyes, and the incense is making me sneeze.

Peter,
I have done both attended big cons and small cons as a featured artist and I have always had a better experience with the smaller shows. It is more personalbe to me than a big Wizard show where we are all hearded in lines of table next to the gaming area or food area. This is the second instance I have read where your were set to go to a show and it did not work out. I went to the Orlando Con last year and it was pretty dead. hardly no one showed up for it. It was my birthday that weekend so we had a great time anyway but it was very slow. I decided not to do it this year even though I live 45 minutes away from it. I was told I did not miss much! I would not get too gun shy about smaller shows though. I think these have been just "bad instances" At least they contacted you and not just leave you hanging like Ornaldo did. Like I said I live close to Orlando ( tampa ) and was contacted by a new convention called Tri-County Comic con http://www.tricountycomiccon.com/. They are doing a 3 day show and are more organized than any other show I have seen in recent years. Contracts for appearance, table, hotel and travel are done, monetary compensation is set up way in advance! If you Peter, or anyone else, gets a chance to be invited to any of their shows I would highly recommend it. It is in Ft. Lauderdale ( very nice beach area) and they will definately treat you right and not just use your name for publicity. Just my 2 cents, thanks for your time.

Austin Janowsky
"I'm not a tracer, I am an Inker!"
www.myspace.com/twistercomics

And now the smear campaign begins.

Over on the UFC site someone has materialized to complain about what a big jerk I am. Loaded with false claims stating that s/he worked at a convention where I had three hotel rooms (patently false; never had three rooms at any con, never asked for it, never needed it) and that they allegedly paid airfare for my entire family (only con to do that that I can recall is Megacon, and we only had two rooms), and various other claims of evil behavior on my part. Nothing like anonymous sock puppets tossing out unsupported calumnies, huh.

PAD

"Why would there be a difference? Expediency may oblige you to treat important people better than normal people, but your ethics should pull you in the opposite direction."

Lingster, if you weren't sort of defending the UFC, I'd have no problem with this. The issue is, of course, that a breach of ethics on UFC's part is exactly what caused this situation. Ethics would have them either a) realize that they have a sci-fi con, not a comic con, and just not invite someone they view primarily as a comic creator in the first place, or b) come clean in the invitation to PAD that they are including him in an effort to set up a sci-fi/comic program, but they haven't done well in the past and might end up cancelling shortly before the show.

"See, I think that's probably exactly what happened. There's no shortage of either, but I think there's a lot more incompetence in the world than malice."

Three weeks before the show, and they JUST NOW realized they were short money? For a con that's got 16 runs behind that, that's a staggering level of incompetance to accept. And from the tales we're hearing of how they treat their customers, I don't think applying malice to their actions is far off base.

Mary Dumas, you're setting a very low standard of respect earned when all you require is an act that somewhat benefits others. If you act like a jerk while playing Robin Hood, you're still going to be treated like a jerk.

Tell you what...if UFC really is run by such nice people, they can prove it. By offering some kind of compensation to PAD for the late cancellation. Or by not now trying to spin this into PAD being the bad guy. Or by coming clean and just telling everyone "hey, we made a mistake, and made what we thought was the best decision in a bad spot. Anyone who bought their tickets just to see PAD can get a refund from us."

But none of that has happened yet. From the sounds of things, refunds will absolutely not be forthcoming. Nor will any kind of meaningful apology. That's the thing about the words "I'm sorry." If you say them while you're still kicking the person you're apologizing to, they come off as kinda empty.

I'm on your side with your latest complaint, Mr. David. It is wrong to invent crap about someone and post it on the Internet. You have every right to be angry with that poster.

Well, curiosity made me come back. However, I still stand by all of my initial criticisms. It was still unprofessional to rant about this in the way you did, the fans on this thread are still mostly sycophants eager to kiss your bottom on this issue, and, worst of all, everyone who disagrees is slammed in the most rude and childish manner. Why, I was even called an $$shole by one of your supporters, and I never once used profanity against anyone here. This is why I level the charge of the Cult of Personality. I stand by that. Yes, I do.

Ajay, it is really insulting for you to call people sycophants.

"Ajay", the fact that your posts from the start have been rude, childish and condescending has nothing to do with the tone of response that you have engendered, of course...

I realize that you've already quite proudly stated that your mind is closed, so attempting to present you with another view is most likely wasted effort. One never knows, though. I suppose it is possible you could learn to look at things from another point of view. Stranger things have happened...

To Jason Bryant:

Reread this thread and you will see that people have been far more insulting to me than I have to them. Sycophants is a more polite term than "ass kisser," which I also could have used. I tried at the beginning to use restraint while still expressing my opinion, and have been called an $$shole for that sin of having a different perspective than you. I stand by every word I have written, doubly so now.

"Well, curiosity made me come back. However, I still stand by all of my initial criticisms. It was still unprofessional to rant about this in the way you did, the fans on this thread are still mostly sycophants eager to kiss your bottom on this issue, and, worst of all, everyone who disagrees is slammed in the most rude and childish manner. Why, I was even called an $$shole by one of your supporters, and I never once used profanity against anyone here. This is why I level the charge of the Cult of Personality. I stand by that. Yes, I do."

Ajay, I'll ask you to go and really read this thread. And others on this board. The people that get slammed and cussed at usually do something to deserve it. In your case, you came on professing some pesonaly experience with such things, chastised PAD, and when he attempted to engage you in debate, you went and hid. No offense, but we don't know you from Mike, so whatever claim you make can only be backed by what you have to add. And if all you have is dogding and weaving while effectively name-calling our host, you're just painting a bighuge target on yourself.

As for most of the posters being PAD sycophants...show me one who's touting some party line, rather than stating their opinion. From my best recollection, every regular poster in this forum has at some point disagreed with PAD. We frequently disagree with each other, and mostly we try to be civil about it. Occasionally someone steps over a line and tempers flare.

If someone called you names, well, that's life. If you go out in public, and engage others in a heated debate, that's going to happen. Especially if you come along and speak condescendingly to folks. I'll quote you the line you used that probably earned the most ire:

"Be. A. Professional."

That was you. And that line, written the way you did, comes off as a$$holi$h to me.

Now, here's something that will probably surprise you: I hope you stick around. Not because I think PAD's board needs more "dissenting" voices, because I think we already have plenty of those. But because I think you could fit in here, and find that you enjoy your time. I think you've got it in you to contribute interesting and entertaining debate. The fact that you came back after saying you were "done" shows that your claim to cease being a cusomter of PAD's might have been a little hyperbole, which I hope is true. I've never understood why someone's personal disagreements with a creative professional would lead you to stop enjoying their works.

To Patrick Calloway:

Here is the text of my first post. What is rude, childish, and condescending about it?

"I have worked as a booking agent for events, not a sci-fi or comic show, I grant you. Cancellations happen. I have never seen talent complain with as much vitriol as on this site. I have read your works and enjoyed them but quite honestly I am shocked by the unprofessional manner in which you are carrying on. Worse still, you appear to lash out at those few folks who disagree with you. I support your right to freedom of speech but at the same time I am disappointed in you, sir. I'll no doubt be savaged for my opinion but as a writer I would have thought you would be open to the free exchange of ideas, even those that differ from yours.

Apparently cancellations never happen in the world of shiny boots, tights, and long capes. Too bad.

Sincerely, a disillusioned Peter David reader unaffiliated with United Fan Con"

"Reread this thread and you will see that people have been far more insulting to me than I have to them."

Why does that matter?

You say that PAD should be polite about what happened to him despite the circumstances. But you're only willing to be nice to people if they are nice to you first.

To bobb alfred:

Yours is the most intelligent and mature post in this entire thread. I applaud it, not because you hope I stick around, but because you stated your case in a well written and thoughtful manner.

I didn't run away and hide. Peter asked me about the details of my dealings when booking talent, but the entire gist of my disappointment in his behavior is that he took his dealings with a promoter to a public forum. What kind of hypocrite would I be if I engaged in the same behavior I was criticizing him for?

This is why I think people aren't stepping back and being objective. UFC might very well be the worst bunch of skunks in the world. That is beside the point. I'll say again, to whine about it publicly is unprofessional. I'm firm in my feelings on that, and if that makes me "closed minded," then so be it. I also don't like chopped liver, so I guess I'm closed minded if I stand firm on that, too.

Jason:

I don't think he should be polite, he should be professional. Apparently there is not one person out there who understands what that means, not UFC, not PAD, nobody.

Would you define your own behavior as professional?

But what makes this "unprofessional"? You haven't really addressed that, and I (since I can't speak for anyone else) can't understand how that even applies. A blog, by definition, is a public forum for ideas / thoughts / news / etc brought up by the site's owner. How does professionalism come into play here??

Ajay, I think the thing you're missing is that this isn't really a public forum. As PAD's stated, he's not out posting this issue at, say, Newsarama, a much more public comic-oriented board that PAD does from time to time post on. Heck, Newsarama's borderline a news site for comics, so taking his post there would in fact be public about it.

But this is PAD's personal blog. He invites his fans here to chat with him, see his personal musings, get his personal take on things and such. Is it professional of PAD (or anyone that invites their fans in to get a glimpse of their personal makeup) to do this? Not at all. Then again, I don't think he's doing it to be professional. He's doing it because he genuinely enjoys interacting with his fans in this way.

I support and understand your call for all parties to act professionally in the proper venues. But to come into someone's personal blog and chastise them for discussing personal issues is misplaced.

Well, for Ajay, Cully Hamner complaining about the Motor City Con using his name to promote the Con when he said he couldn't do it, and then saying he cancelled instead of taking the blame for erroneously including him on the flyer and website.

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=84928&highlight=cully+hamner

"Here is the text of my first post. What is rude, childish, and condescending about it?"

I think it's pretty safe to say the last line about the shiny boots and tights was a tad condescending, Ajay.

"Here is the text of my first post. What is rude, childish, and condescending about it?"

Honestly? All of it. If you want a point by point dissection:

"I have worked as a booking agent for events, not a sci-fi or comic show, I grant you. Cancellations happen."

You claim expertise in the field, but provide no specifics (and, when pressed for some, beat a hasty retreat.

"I have never seen talent complain with as much vitriol as on this site. I have read your works and enjoyed them but quite honestly I am shocked by the unprofessional manner in which you are carrying on."

You called me unprofessional and vitriolic even though I was the one treated in an unprofessional manner, while reserving no criticism for those who actually did the canceling--a cancellation which will result in no refunds for anyone who bought tickets specifically to see me.

"Worse still, you appear to lash out at those few folks who disagree with you. I support your right to freedom of speech but at the same time I am disappointed in you, sir."

A sentence rife with both untruths and condescension.

"I'll no doubt be savaged for my opinion"

Your "opinion" thus far consists of insults and condescension

"but as a writer I would have thought you would be open to the free exchange of ideas, even those that differ from yours."

An outright lie.

"Apparently cancellations never happen in the world of shiny boots, tights, and long capes. Too bad."

A condescending, arrogant and high-handed dismissal of comic book conventions...not to mention ironic considering UFC asserted that I was dumped specifically because they were NOT a comic con.

Sincerely, a disillusioned Peter David reader unaffiliated with United Fan Con"

It has been my experience that when someone materializes out of the ether to zero in on a specific subject, they typically have an ax to grind. So frankly, when you go out of your way to claim no affiliation with UFC, that signals to me that--as Shakespeare wrote--methinks thou dost protest too much.

So basically your entire first post was rife with arrogance and insult, and concluded with a disclaimer that is--I suspect--less than truthful.

Understand why you were pegged as an asshole now?

PAD

Ajay's second post with the wcult of personality' statement probablydidn't win him any fans either.

That's certainly true, but he was asking about his first posting. So that's what I dissected.

Considering he's gone on to claim anyone who agrees with me is a sycophant, I'm not sure how he can possibly think he's being ill-used.

PAD

They've apparently locked down posting over at the UFC site again, leaving the "attack" post as the last one available... real class act they've got there...

I don't get the big deal about PAD's first post. I read it and didn't think "Those UFC assholes!", I read it as, "oh... so he's not going and that's why." I see nothing out of sorts considering WHERE we are reading this or what was siad. It seemed like a rather fair assessment of mishandling of 'talent'.
Hell, I am more interested in one day being referred to as "talent" tahn anything else.
It looked like teh Ajay feller was someone coming here to defend the UFC but has since grown to seem like a sad attempt to stick to his guns in a losing argument. If it was just him saying "I find this unprofessional", I guess that's one thing. It just all went too far. Not that I'm complaining... it helps pass the time and I like it better than the political threads.

You've been really ill-used, Peter. I'd agree with other posters that a cancellation clause is probably a good move from here on out.

You've been really ill-used, Peter. I'd agree with other posters that a cancellation clause is probably a good move from here on out.

Just to give a head's up: I just was able to post a comment to the thread on the UFC forums.

I have seen PAD before at UFC two years back and he was a really great guest. From reading his wife's blog and PAD's, they had a great time there.

I am saddened that he was 'uninvited' from this year's event. While he has posted on the front of this site to say what has happened, the only mention on the UFC site is in the forums.

I'm involved in a large con. (One Peter is pretty much going to be always welcome at. If nothing more than to give out the Award...really Peter, hanging it on a chain like Flav-a-fla? Best MC I've seen for the Banquet by the way. One mentioned earlier in these comments in fact. One that I was looking forward to meeting PAD's WIFE one year at, 'cause I really didn't know who Peter was at the time.)

Here's the reality.

If you a Con, invite a guest, agree to certain considerations, and then use said guest's name in advertising; you put down in your budget that those costs for considerations is SPENT. UFC didn't do that. They pull some BS because they weren't professional in their ACCOUNTING. The person being mistreated has the right to complain. IN PUBLIC.

But, really, this isn't exactly public. This is a blog. Not his official stuff, but a personal blog. Yes, Peter does use this for official, professional announcements. But, when it's all said and done, it's still his personal blog.

No one says a single thing when some fan or even a fan club complains because they were mistreated a a Con. Why does Peter not have the same right?

Peter, see you next year in Atlanta. And, remember, my staffers really don't mind giving you a ride. We're there to do that!

William

Ajay, do you think that maybe, just maybe, most the people here might have seen your "cult" remark as a bigger insult then you thought and that calling you an @$$hole was a response to your general attitude and that.

Fine, Peter. You win. It's saddening to be called a liar and to see you deny lashing out at people. Didn't you say something like 'are you high' to someone when debating with them, before I even came along? That constitutes lashing out in my book.

Believe what you wish to believe. I knew when I first posted here that my views would be unpopular.

As I stated before to someone else on this thread, I did not beat a hasty retreat. You asked me about my experiences booking talent and my entire beef with you in the first place was the fact that you were taking a professional issue of that nature to the public. I would be a hypocrite to discuss with you what I think should not be posted on the Internet.

That's all I have to say. Have fun at whatever conventions you do attend.

To Jason Bryant:

Reread this thread and you will see that people have been far more insulting to me than I have to them.

Funny. I get the exact OPPOSITE impression. Perhaps others do as well.

That should be food for thought for you.

I didn't run away and hide.

Bullshit.

You had your say, then said you weren't coming back.

Oh, look, here it is:
"Anyway, I am out of here. I'm sure you won't miss me."

Is it professional to be a coward?

"As I stated before to someone else on this thread, I did not beat a hasty retreat. You asked me about my experiences booking talent and my entire beef with you in the first place was the fact that you were taking a professional issue of that nature to the public. I would be a hypocrite to discuss with you what I think should not be posted on the Internet."

Had you answered the question...whether the guests in your experience were paid guests that had cancellation fees written into their appearance contract...you'd not have been any kind of hypocrite. Since when is it considered unprofessional to discuss the generic workings of your business? Mr. Saunders-Cummings participated in a way that kept his organization un-named...if not totally confidential because of the size and location, not to mention PAD's participation, which is a tip-off to those in the know...as one professional speaking to another in a forum accessible to the public. PAD didn't ask for names, dates, places, etc. He asked a general question that was specifically relevant to the point that you brought up. Your refusal to answer was not some adherance to ethics, it was an outright dodge. Usually when folks do that, it's because they realize that to truthfully respond to the question can only undermine the argument they are making.

In all serious, Ajay, if you think "are you high" ranks as lashing out, stay away from message boards from this point on. That's about the mildest form of written double take I can think of.

Here is the text of my first post. What is rude, childish, and condescending about it?

"...I'll no doubt be savaged for my opinion but as a writer I would have thought you would be open to the free exchange of ideas, even those that differ from yours."

This is a form of fallacious argument known as "poisoning the well," which is fairly common in online discussions. By seeking to present anyone who disagrees with you as "savaging" you and opposed to the free exchange of ideas, you're engaging in a pre-emptive ad hominem attack, thus trying to prevent your position as valid and your opponents' as invalid without actually engaging their ideas.

...and for "prevent," read "present" in that last post.

"Peter goes above and beyond at a convention both for the staff and the fans. He signs stuff in corridors and at the end of panels. He answers questions. He does not go into hiding when he isn't doing something for the convention. He is out and about. You can find him as anyone who has attended a convention he has been at can attest."

Let me tell you something...

Jenn and I were at Dragon*Con '06 last year, and we had several great interactions with PAD. He was pleasant, professional and outgoing at each of his scheduled appearances. But the one that stuck out the most was from after a panel on Superman and the nature of heroes. Peter was heading down the hall with Kath and I had just caught up with him to ask a quick question. I hadn't gotten a full schedule that morning (I couldn't find one) and wanted to know when and where he might be that day for signings and whatnot. Just as I said, "excuse me Mr. David," I heard him and Kath talking about having just enough time to go back to their room and get a bite to eat.

He turned, asked me what I wanted and I asked about his schedule. He looked at his watch and said that it would be much later that day, but if I wasn't going to be at the con by then and just wanted a couple of things signed real quick, then he would do it right there and then.

Jenn, who had also heard the food discussion, and I both waved off, explained that we were there the duration and would catch him wherever he was set up for signings. He told us when he was going to be in Artist Alley that day, we thanked him and away he went.

Now, think about that a second. We're in a major hallway at one of the larger cons and he was willing to stop and sign some books while on his way out to get what was likely an already short meal break in. And don't just think about the fact that it was just me, who he didn't know from Adam, but that he said that likely knowing that there were others all around us who might starting forming a line. But he offered anyway. That is in no way the man being described by that poster at the UFC site.

And I had more fun getting my stuff signed later anyhow. I got the strangest look from Peter when I plopped my two books down and was told, nicely, that he had never had anyone pull out such an odd pairing of books before. The books? A nice new hardback copy of Knightlife and a beat up old paperback of... Knightlife. I told him that it was just one of those throwaway jokes of his that stuck in my brain because of the stilly whimsy of it. He had once joked in his BID column, when talking about the upcoming re-release of his revised Knightlife, that he finally had an appropriate answer to a silly question. He was always asked if he had any new books coming out. Well, they're all new, but for that book he could now correct the questioner by telling them that, no, he didn't have a new book coming out, but he did have an old one coming out. I always like that for some reason.

He gave me a funny look, made a quick joke and was nice enough to sign the two books in the silly way I had requested.

"Jerry, glad you enjoyed my new old book"

and ...

"Jerry, glad you enjoyed my old new book"

A very strange request to oblige a fan's warped sense of humor, but he did it anyhow and was seemed to have some fun with the idea. No, that is in no way the man being described by the poster at the UFC site.

Ajay: "Didn't you say something like 'are you high' to someone when debating with them, before I even came along?"

Uh, no, that was me. You can distinguish my posts from Peter's by looking at the name at the top of the post. His posts have his name at the top, whereas mine have my name at the top.

Good riddance to you, by the way, little troll.

Hey, Bill, ease up. He's obviously high.

Silly Bill Myers, getting bogged down in the details. Ajay has already made up his mind about this. You can't sway him with such little things as facts. Clearly, you're just a sycophant bravely jumping in front of PAD to take the internet arrow Ajay aimed at PAD's virtual heart.

Am I the only one who finds Ajay's accusations that the posters here mindlessly agree with PAD hilarious? I assume that the accusations come from the fact that Ajay hasn't checked out the site before. I'm a regular reader and an occasional commenter, and I will readily attest that I often disagree with Peter on various topics (occasionally vehemently) and that I have never seen him "lash out" at anyone who hadn't been asking for it pretty insistently.

"I assume that the accusations come from the fact that Ajay hasn't checked out the site before."

I think Ajay is the type to always think that if people are disagreeing with him, there must be an ulterior motive. He doesn't want to face the possibility that dozens of people genuinely disagree with him, so he pretends that his opinions are somehow morally superior to everyone else's.

If he had kept it to the level of disagreement, everything would have been fine. I actually thought that PAD's first post was a little rough when I first read it. I thought he could have phrased things a little more diplomatically.

But I don't think that it was *unreasonable* for PAD to say what he said. I would have phrased things differently, but I don't think there's anything wrong with how PAD said it. That's why I didn't post anything in response to PAD's initial post.

If Ajay had said something like "PAD, I think you're being too hard on them," it never would have turned into this ugly debate. People would have disagreed with him, but it would have been civil. But instead of saying that, Ajay said that PAD was being unprofessional and anyone who disagreed with that was against the free exchange of ideas. Ajay isn't a guy who's just unfamiliar with PAD's blog, he's a troll laying out flame-bait.

That's my opinion. Some people might disagree with it, but they're all worse than Hitler.

Ajay: "I would be a hypocrite to discuss with you what I think should not be posted on the Internet."

You're actually equating discussing a standard business practice in the general sense with the disclosure of business deals between two specific parties? Everything about your presentation of your opinion suggests that you are 100% fraud.

It's an interesting world you want to force everyone else to live in. Individuals treated unfairly in business should keep their mouths shut at all times? And if people don't adhere to your world view of how business should be conducted, you will withdraw your financial support of their endeavors?

Do you really think anyone could ever take such childishness seriously? The worst way to make your point is with the: "I'll never buy your work again" argument. It's not only juvenile and wrongheaded, it's a very old and tired debate tactic typically employed by those with no credible argument.

Why don't you take your ball home with you while you're at it?

Peter, I was one of the organizers of one of the (apparently) three cons that advertised you as a guest without getting a confirmation from you first. It was back in 1993 for a brand new convention being organized by a bunch of 19 year old college students who had no idea what they were doing. (In fact, I was the only one of the group who'd even attended a convention before.) We sent out invitations--primarily through e-mail (again, we didn't know what we were doing)--and waited for replies. Naively, we assumed we needed to start advertising as soon as we could and put out a preliminary Usenet posting that included the people we'd invited. You came down on us on Usenet like a bag of hammers, saying you'd never heard of us, we were totally out of line and you'd never do our convention. After one of us explained that we'd e-mailed you an invite, you let us know that we should never use e-mail for any transactions. We did apologize and explained that we didn't realize what we were doing was wrong, we'd take your name off every ad and we'd explain to anyone who asked exactly what happened and that we were at fault, all of which we did. I know you still weren't happy about the situation, but (14 years on), I want to reiterate again that there was no ill intent, no thought of "trading on your name," nothing. Just a bunch of kids excited about putting on a convention with no idea what they were doing.

I know this has nothing to do with UFC (which, from what you've posted here, treated you pretty shabbily and knew *exactly* what they were doing), but you mentioned being advertised without your knowledge and I thought I should pipe up with another clarification and apology. Assuming you were even counting the first 5Con among your three, anyway. If nothing else, you gave us a lesson in how *not* to do things. The convention doesn't exist anymore (it folded around 2003, long after the original folks had moved on), but the lesson remains.

The first three guests announced for this year's UFC were Nicki Clyne, Tracy Scoggins and Peter David.

While of course I wanted to see both actresses, I was immediately most jazzed that PAD was coming back again.

To dispute Mary's contention that UFC attendees are there solely for the actors/actresses, last year it was Peter David's appearance that sealed the deal for me to go.

They had a great lineup of comic talent last year and sadly they won't this year.

My ticket is non-refundable so I basically have to go in order to just not have thrown sixty bucks away. I want to see some of the acting talent that will be there, but I'm really not expecting to have as great a time that I had last year.

Jay, even if it is nonrefundable, you should still call them and try. They sold it to you with Peter David as part of the deal, now he isn't. Even if you don't get your money back, they should hear a few polite complaints so they know why people don't come back next year.

And who knows, you might get someone on the phone who's willing to work with you. I often find that the luck of the draw on who you're talking to is a huge factor in getting things like refunds.

Ajay, I . . .

Ah, you know what? I have better things to do that address this troll.

Screw it.

I had the honor of meeting you at a United Fan Con back when they were still Wishcon. (I.e., when they still had a soul.) Got a few autographed books, Vendeta and that one that you wrote along with three other authors. (Can't recall the title, and the book is packed at the moment as I'm moving soon.) All for of you were at that one, so it was a handy book for an autograph!

I've been out of going to cons for a number of years, but since I'm in the unfortunate position of finding myself single, that does allow for more Me Time. I'd been thinking of getting back into cons, and had actually been considering going to United Fan Con. (As a Springfield native, it is a convenient choice, even if I am annoyed at how outrageous their prices seem to be sometimes.)

Hearing what they did to you, though, makes me glad that I decided against it.

Ajay, I'll ask you to go and really read this thread. And others on this board. The people that get slammed and cussed at usually do something to deserve it. In your case, you came on professing some pesonaly experience with such things, chastised PAD, and when he attempted to engage you in debate, you went and hid. No offense, but we don't know you from Mike...

Well, for one thing, Counselor,™ because I can always count on some hypocrite portraying himself as intending no offense while venting disgust on me, you can pretty much rule out me ever saying "I am out of here."

It sucks that they're doing this to you again, but if you'll be attending NY Comic-Con this year, I could probably see you for my birthday. I just hope I can get tickets this year..

The folks who cry that it's not professional to complain publicly are generally those who benefit from having their improper actions kept secret.

In the case of Peter, who has been an asset at every con I've seen him at, from when I was just a fanboy getting some of his early stuff signed, what he did here was right and proper.

Had he merely said that his appearance had been canceled, then many of his fans may have been lead to believe that he had been the one doing the canceling, the one who had tied up their money in tickets for an appearance which will not happen.

Had he not revealed how UFC had treated him, then other professionals might not have been warned about his dealings. Keeping silent is the easiest way to encourage unethical dealings. It's to the advantages of professionals everywhere that folks know about it. If it makes the UFC people uncomfortable for folks to find out that they could not or would not live up to their word, then perhaps they should realize that the problem lies in their actions, and not that those actions are discovered.

Peter David puts his recognizable name on his statements, making it clear who he is. Ajay? Not so.

Kath said:
"Kevin-
I'm glad you posted this to clear up what I thought was a typo.
Kath"
-----
Kath, "UFC IS A OLNEY" was my attempt at being witty, and also a literary reference. Shakespeare---"The law is a ass."

Kath, "UFC IS A OLNEY" was my attempt at being witty, and also a literary reference. Shakespeare---"The law is a ass."

The Dickens, you say.

Seriously: That's not Shakespeare. That's Charles Dickens. "Oliver Twist." Specifically, Mr. Bumble is informed that the law supposes a husband responsible for the actions of his wife, and retorts, “If the law supposes that...the law is a ass—a idiot. If that’s the eye of the law, the law is a bachelor; and the worst I wish the law is that his eye may be opened by experience—by experience."

PAD

Now, ironically enough, I have my mother's rather worn 1954 hardcover copy of "Oliver Twist" sitting right next to my computer. Huh. Embarrassed that I didn't catch that.

Posted by BMQ

You need a lecture agent.

You mean, like Ajay?

Posted by Lingster

PAD wrote: I have no problem with a convention balking at the idea of inviting me because they may look bad should they subsequently dump me from their line-up. No problem with that at all.

You're assuming that only "bad actors" will reach a negative conclusion about you. Some honest people may conclude you're in the wrong (i.e. "three weeks is ample notice"), while other people may conclude that you're in the right but made a mountain out of a molehill.

Anyone organising a convention who actually knows what they're doing will understand exactly what PAD's point is. (Having, as i mentioned, been part of organising several, including one WorldCon, i think i have some perspective here.) And those who (a) know what they're doing, and are "bad actors", or (b) those who *don't* know, and are the ones likely to get in over their heads, are the ones most likely to not invite PAD, either because (a) they're afraid to be exposed or (b) use trhe specious reasoning you mention.

Because three weeks is NOT "ample notice".

Posted by Mary Dumas

(Too much trouble to find the precise things i want to respond to - Mary {in case you ever return instead of being a one-shot trying to justify bad behaviour on the part of UFC} let me advise you - Mr Paragraph is your friend.)

Mary, you act as if 501c3 conventions were in business to make money. Hardly. If they are, you can bet that the IRS will eventually catch up to them for the abuses you cite.

501c3's are, indeed, non-profits oprganisations; all of the cons falling under that rubric with which i am familiar (insert past personal experience here) have been volunteer, fan-run affairs, for the fans, making no money (quite possibly *losing* some). Most charge a *hell* of a lot less for memberships (not "tickets", like for-profit cons) than the sort of con you seem to be familiar with.

Most of them get hotel facilities free in return for booking a certain number of room nights. Often, the reason that they can get better deals with hotels than the sort of con you are familiar withis because they will be filling the hotel on a weekend when it would otherwise be pretty much empty.

And, yes, some of them jerk guests around, but generally because they just didn't understand what they were getting into.

Oh, and might i add - most or many of the guests who attend such conventions would have been there, anyway, paying their own expenses, either because they are also fans (and, at most, what they're getting is a free membership and the egoboo of being on programming and meeting their fans) or because they or their publishers/producers felt it was worth the cost of paying their way for the publicity.

Joe N. wrote: "Gosh Mary, if what you say is true and the fans indeed come to this particular convention for the actors as you say, here's a question for you: why did they invite Peter in the first place?"

Gee, Joe, maybe it was because they thought Peter was a nice guy, who they liked and thought would enjoy the UFC, like he seemed to the past couple times. And maybe, just maybe they didn't think he'd be the kind of guy to take this to a fan-forum. Honestly, I didn't think he was that kind of guy.

Uh huh. No thought at all that he might draw members and make money.

And your last sentence sort of confirms you're only here to grind your own axe - because, if you read this blog regularly, you'd know PAD was *precisely* the sort of guy who, not suffering wounds or fools gladly, would point out such behaviour.

Posted by Eric L. Sofer, the Silver Age Fogey

(I would like to add that this IS my own opinion, and it would be the same no matter who this happened to - John Byrne, Neil Gaiman, Rob Leifeld, Gene Colan - whomever. "Cult of personality" doesn't enter into it... brrr.)

Ditto. If it happened to L. Ron Hubbard, i wouldn't think he was amiss to complain poublicly about it. Assuming he could manage it.

Posted by Ajay

Okay, since you're willing to expose yourself again. You said:

Worse still, you appear to lash out at those few folks who disagree with you.

Generally, PAD "lash[es] out at those few folks who disagree with [him]" when their "disagreement" is, from the first, expressed in anm insulting and holier-than-thou manner.

Your post (if read for tone) is just such a comment

I support your right to freedom of speech but at the same time I am disappointed in you, sir. I'll no doubt be savaged for my opinion but as a writer I would have thought you would be open to the free exchange of ideas, even those that differ from yours.

Is your post still in place? Has PAD blocked your further post. (Of course, he might, as i would in his position, be operating on the "enough rope" theory...)

Apparently cancellations never happen in the world of shiny boots, tights, and long capes. Too bad.

And this is flatly disdainful, personally insulting and combative. And you wonder why you got strafed in return.

Plus, you make claims of professional knowledge, apparently superior to anything PAD (and the rest of the regulars here) might have. (Of course, whaty we might know is something you have no way of knowing.) However, when called on the claim, you say it would be unprofessional to back it up.

Okay, fine. Don't reveal any specific details of clients or your negotiations on their behalf. But you've made your brags- back 'em up somehow - maybe, perhaps, revealing what agency you work for? Or, if you're a free-lance, some of the organisations you've handled speaker/guest arrangements with?

Otherwise, go away, or we will taunt you some more.

Rob S.: "Hey, Bill, ease up. He's obviously high."

Dooooode. You made me spit my coffee!

I may be coming in late, but as someone who's booked Peter for convention appearances, I can say that he's been unflaggingly professional.

He shows up at the right time and place, ready to work. He makes his panel discussions and other presentations as interesting as possible. He's courteous and respectful to the fans. He checks with his hosts before doing anything that might be a breach of their rules. And he's happy to help them publicize his appearances.

I'd love to work with him again.

David Seidman
Former Marketing Director
Claypool Comics

I'm also coming in late to this discussion, but I have to say that this really bites. PAD, being a very professional writer with a great following and a respect for his fan base, you have more than enough credentials under your belt to be treated in such a manner. As far as the orgainzer in question, what a tool (unprofessional for me to say, but that's how I feel)!

This discussion amuses me on so many levels, because by and large, UFC is showing exactly how not to run a business, and they're getting bitten in the ass for it.

Professional or not, you have a duty to your customers. I am a writer and I am also a former business manager. If you piss off enough customers, you're not going to get their money. If you don't get their money, you don't have a business.

What happened? UFC was losing money, so they pissed off an invited guest. Bad idea when their bread and butter is peddling these invited guests, and when they disinvite a guest, they also piss off a portion of their customer base. The public now knows about it, and those who spent their money on this event are also pissed off.

Is it any wonder why they're about to go under?

I wouldn't say these reactions are unprofessional at all. If I have a bad experience with a business, you bet your ass somebody's going to hear about it, and not necessarily just the business -- I'm going to tell my family and friends about my experience, which will also influence their decisions.

It's business at work.

"Is your post still in place? Has PAD blocked your further post. (Of course, he might, as i would in his position, be operating on the "enough rope" theory...)"

Just for the record, no, I've blocked none of his posts.

PAD

On behalf of all the small volunteer run con's I apologize.
What they did just makes it so much harder for anyone else to attract guests and the public to their events. I belong to the Iowa Comic Book Club and we have spent 7 years just trying to build relationships with people and get the public interested in coming.
We make just enough money to have funds to keep us going, this is a club not a business. I guess we just don't spend money we don't have in our
pocket. We also don't invite people and then blow them off..

sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, please don’t give up on us "newbie's" and non giant wizard/san diego cons...

See, Peter, that's what I was saying.. don't judge ALL the small cons based on 2 (obviously misrun) small cons.

I will NEVER understand why people take PAD to task for what he posts here. It's his website. It's his weblog. I think if he really were posting something he shouldn't, he would've been sued by now, right?

P.S. Someone running a bad website has absolutely zero to do with lack of manpower and more to do with a lack of competent people running the company. I've worked for small companies and large companies, and all of them had trouble with their websites due to people not doing their jobs properly. Those people usually got fired.

I know that when I've personally been screwed over by a company, being told to cut them some slack doesn't work. :)

Posted by: Jason M. Bryant at October 16, 2007 06:56 PM

Jay, even if it is nonrefundable, you should still call them and try. They sold it to you with Peter David as part of the deal, now he isn't. Even if you don't get your money back, they should hear a few polite complaints so they know why people don't come back next year.

If people bought tickets through the mail on the basis of Peter David attending, and then UFC cancels his appearance, UFC may be violating some kind of Federal mail fraud law if they deny refunds to those who ask for them.

I'm not an attorney, so my facts may not be all there, but it's worth a shot.

On a more lighthearted note ...

> never had three rooms at any con

Did Hal Clement?

I recall, several years ago, a convention flyer listing:
Pro writer GoH - Hal Clement
Fah GoH - Harry Stubbs
Artist GoH - George Richard

Stubbs, being Clement's real name, and George Richard being the alias (made up of the names of his two sons) used when he does astronomical art.

Since he was listed three times, did this entitle him to three rooms? At least they probably didn't need to pay for three plane tickets. Not if he paid his own way (as he did to ours as GoH in '78.)

StarWolf, that's a great story, but I'm curious: presumably the convention staff were aware of the three-name situation and were having a bit of fun knowing they had a 'three-for-one' guest? If not, it's still funny, but in a very different way.

They must be getting desperate.

Over at the United Fan Con website, they are now offering a raffle to win one of three refurbished laptop computers.

And yet, they could have honored their original commitment to PAD for the cost of one, brand spanking new laptop. Hell, maybe not even that much!

Tacky...really tacky!

Joe - I'm sure they were aware. Hal was an exceptionally pleasant individual who would not have taken advantage in any event.

I helped a convention group (primarily gaming) for about ten years, before the group disintegrated. When we had a guest, we made sure we had the money and agreements in place before we announced anything about that guest.

I've seen some cons do otherwise, and as in this case, it wasn't pretty. Some people believe that the fantasy of a convention also applies to the basic financial workings, and it doesn't.

We also saw an Orlando comic book convention book people like Mr. D., and then...because they had no panel rooms or local fan involvement...had him there doing nothing. They ended up giving him a room where he talked to the fans who knew who he was, and we all had a good time...but if I were running the con, I'd make sure I got a lot more out of him for the fees I paid him.

PAD said:
"Seriously: That's not Shakespeare. That's Charles Dickens. "Oliver Twist." Specifically, Mr. Bumble is informed that the law supposes a husband responsible for the actions of his wife, and retorts, “If the law supposes that...the law is a ass—a idiot."
-----
You know, I think you're right. If fact, I know you're right. I knew that back in the dark recesses of my increasingly unreliable mind.

As I remembered it, it was spoken by Michael Keaton in the movie Much Ado About Nothing. Strange thing, the mind.

>I've seen some cons do otherwise, and as in this case, it wasn't pretty.

In the 70s, advertisement was being passed around at conventions for something called S.F. Expo. The *long* list of pros attending struck me as just unbelievable. Worldcons should have that kind of roster. And, yes, it did turn out to be too good to be true. When contacted, most (all?) of the 'guests' said it was the first they'd heard of it.

Well, you were the only person I wanted to see at UFC last year (my first & only UFC). So I'm sorry they dropped you. I do assume the actors have a cancellation fee clause, and I know UFC is on the edge. Just proves media cons don't do well in New England: we're too literary. I would point out that Arisia has a large media/comics track, and you would likely be welcome on program there. (But get your hotel room now, it's filling fast.)

Look forward to seeing you at World Fantasy Con.

"Look forward to seeing you at World Fantasy Con."

Huh?

I'm not going to WFC.

PAD

As I remembered it, it was spoken by Michael Keaton in the movie Much Ado About Nothing. Strange thing, the mind.

--

CONRADE
Away! you are an ass, you are an ass.

DOGBERRY (played by Keaton)

Dost thou not suspect my place? dost thou not
suspect my years? O that he were here to write me
down an ass! But, masters, remember that I am an
ass; though it be not written down, yet forget not
that I am an ass. No, thou villain, thou art full of
piety, as shall be proved upon thee by good witness.
I am a wise fellow, and, which is more, an officer,
and, which is more, a householder, and, which is
more, as pretty a piece of flesh as any is in
Messina, and one that knows the law, go to; and a
rich fellow enough, go to; and a fellow that hath
had losses, and one that hath two gowns and every
thing handsome about him. Bring him away. O that
I had been writ down an ass!

Sorry to hear about UFC's behaviour, very unprofessional IMHO.

Well, I know that ConnectiCon would never ask you not to attend after you'd already accepted the invitation, sadly, we're in the middle of summer, usually around the same dates as San Diego Comic Con.

I think we've asked you two or three times to attend but we haven't ever received a response from you, I imagine it is because you get a lot of email and can't read all of it.

I'll have our guest relations director Moira Chance send you an invitation in the next month or so.

May I suggest that the problem is (small) media cons, rather than small cons in general? I know of only two cases where a general or literary con canceled guests, and that's because the cons themselves were canceled.

What you do with the contract when they don't pay isn't sue them; you send copies to the agents of their media guests (and the appropriate guilds).

As for "no refunds", I'd say that anybody who paid because of Peter David's (advertised) attendance is entitled to a refund (or a Small Claims lawsuit for false advertising). If you paid by credit card, use a chargeback.

Matthew, the problem with ConnectiCon is it is perpetually the same weekend as Shoreleave, and no matter how many guests you get for ConnectiCon, there's no contest where a large number of Connecticut fans are going to go. As much as I'd LOVE a more local convention, and my kids want to attend, sorry.

Re: Having chaired two events, one where Peter was our Author GoH, and another where he came on his own nickel, He was very professional and took time to talk to fans during the whole weekend in both instances.

I've been involved with regular fan run literary cons, a few fan run media cons, more professional oriented events such as World Fantasy, World Horror, and The Nebulas, and been more involved than I probably should admit to with the local Creation Cons. What UFC did with Peter is inexcusable. I don't see how they think they're going to get out of the red by dropping him. If I was one of the actors being paid to show up, I'd be concerned about getting what I was promised.

RE: World Fantasy Con (In Saratoga Springs in early November).

I don't think I've ever seen Peter's name on the list for WFC this year. Not even Keith R. DeCandido (who has attended before). I do see Martin Greenberg on the list, though. Also Paul Cornell, some guy with two R.R.'s as his middle name, and a whole bunch of other authors. Needless to say, I'm going to be very busy at the mass autographing on Friday night. There's even a few artists like Charles Vess and some guy named Boris.

At this point, they've sold enough memberships there may not be any at the door, but the Worlds of Fantasy Bookstore in nearby Albany, NY are having a couple of events with some of the authors.

In any case, this is the type of event Peter ought to get to more often so that he will be known as more than just a comics writer.

Lee Whiteside

I'm so sorry you had this experience. My partner and I own SiliCon on the west coast. We've had our own embarrassing episodes when we've been less than professional with guests. We've always owned up to the mistake and did our damnedest to make amends and sort out the problem. I find myself apologizing all year long for unprofessional behavior done one weekend. Our guests are gold to us.

An incident like the one you've experienced, hurts all conventions.

Here's hoping you have some good experiances the rest of this year and next.

Maurine "MO" Starkey

Since Washington, D.C. (unfortunately) does not have a comic book convention, I hope you attend the Baltimore Comicon one of these days. If not, I'll try to see if I can catch you at a Star Trek convention in Maryland. I remember you attended one about a decade ago, but I can't remember the name...

I hope you don't rule out all small cons but instead look at the type of con instead. I have stopped going to fan cons that have guests that charge for their autograph. They strike me as there for money and not for fandom and I don't trust them. I have ended up being sucked into working local conventions and I have rather high standards for the ones I will support both with my money and my effort. Sometimes these are small cons but they aren't set up to need to pull what UFC did.

Mr. David,

I've never posted in your forum before, but I found links here from friends who are running Costumecon, who keep their ears to the ground about many things fannish.

As both a fan of your Star Trek novels, and as a person who has helped run many fan-run conventions in the past (Conjecture in San Diego, and the national Gaylaxicon, to name two of my favorites), I think it's both appalling that you would be treated so shabbily, and I also think it's entirely appropriate for you to discuss the situation on your blog.

If I ever run a con and have the privilege of having you as a guest, I hope we, like many other small fan-run conventions, can be given the opportunity to make up for the asshattery (asshaberdashery?) of UFC's inappropriate actions.

Oh, and I note their announcement of having Bill Mumy on October 2. Wouldn't that be after they had asked you to not attend? Curious, indeed. (Of course having asked you months in advance should be the real deciding factor here, even if your draw appeal and professional experience weren't reason enough to keep you as a guest.)

If nothing else, I look forward to your future works, and thanks for all you've contributed to the sci-fi and comic genres.

> Would think that anyone with the slightest bit of common sense would realize that this isn't the way to run a rail road, but then there are lots of folks without common sense out there.

People with any common sense at all do not volunteer their time to run a convention for free.

People with any common sense at all do not volunteer their time to run a convention for free.

That's such a sad thing to say. The entire convention economy is based on hundreds of people donating their time and effort for no cash compensation.

Unfortunately, I fear that this attitude of "you shouldn't do anything without Getting Paid" is starting to spread. If it becomes more predominant, you can expect that the number of conventions will drastically shrink, and all we'll have left is a handful of for-profit "shows" (calling them "conventions" does a disservice to those dedicated people who have volunteered themselves for all these years).

People with any common sense at all do not volunteer their time to run a convention for free.

To say that I'm stunned by this comment is a bit of an understatement. I've been in SF fandom for nearly 30 years and the only place I've encountered that sentiment is in the media end of things.

Every con I go to is run by dedicated volunteers (my wife being one of them) and they tend to be well run, enjoyable, and we don't have to charge $200 at the door and sell you tickets for every other event.

Conventions should be participation-driven, not passive. Which is why we sell memberships. You are part of the con, not just attending. I don't see that in events like UFC.

"People with any common sense at all do not volunteer their time to run a convention for free."

People with any guts don't make sweeping disparaging statements anonymously.

I regularly volunteer my time for things that are important to me. I've helped run conventions, I participate in community theater, I serve on the board of the CBLDF...all efforts for which I do not, nor do I expect to, receive compensation.

PAD

One of the questions on Jeopardy Friday, October 19, was "Who was Dogberry?". The answer mentioned Michael Keaton in Much Ado About Nothing.

Go figure.

Hey, Mr. David,

If you're ever interested in being a guest at ConCarolinas, you can do so with the assurance that we will NEVER disinvite you! We're on year six now, and what we do is stick to our budget to start with. If we can't afford someone, we don't invite him/her in the first place.

We're lucky to have been started off with a loan from SECFI (Southeast Convention Fandom Inc), chaired at the time by Kelly Lockhart and the now-late Irv Koch. Their aim was to get a con started between Atlanta and DC that could eventually support a WorldCon.

So far, we've had David Weber, Alan Dean Foster, Greg Keyes, Spider Robinson (and wife) and Barbara Hambly as GOHs.

If you're interested, just let us know! Another Trek-writer... yeah! We could do that!

And again, I promise.. we will NEVER EVER disinvite you!

Posted by: Anonymous at October 20, 2007 06:04 AM
Anonymous: "People with any common sense at all do not volunteer their time to run a convention for free."

I am a happy capitalist and believe capitalism is superior to its alternatives. But the fact is that there are a great number of vital and worthwhile things that would never get done if a profit motive were the only driving force in our society.

Voluteerism in all its forms is a necessary and wonderful thing. Volunteering to run a convention for free doesn't represent a lack of common sense. It represents a love for the art form and the industry.

A non-profit convention should be held to standards of fiscal accountability and professionalism, to be sure. But volunteering in and of itself isn't an inherently bad thing, and I feel badly for anyone who believes otherwise.

Posted by: Kevin Standlee

People with any common sense at all do not volunteer their time to run a convention for free.

That's such a sad thing to say. The entire convention economy is based on hundreds of people donating their time and effort for no cash compensation.

Unfortunately, I fear that this attitude of "you shouldn't do anything without Getting Paid" is starting to spread. If it becomes more predominant, you can expect that the number of conventions will drastically shrink, and all we'll have left is a handful of for-profit "shows" (calling them "conventions" does a disservice to those dedicated people who have volunteered themselves for all these years).

Perhaps we're missing the point/taking things too seriously here?

I well remember the buttons that were floating around Atlanta fandom that said "Friends don't let friends do WorldCons."

It's been my experience that, at some point in the process of running a con (of any size), people start going "Why the hell am i doing this? And for no money, too?"

Sort of "You don't have to be crazy to work here, but it helps" type thing.

If anyone is still questioning your professionalism for going public - remember this.

"As for his trip to Indonesia, we've learned that was cancelled (sic) because the organization which had asked him to perform was not fulfilling its contractual obligations. David is currently in the US."

- TMZ.com regarding David Copperfield. Yeah, he may be about to be in trouble with the law, but he's a "real" professional (unlike authors, wink). AND he let it be known why appearances were canceled!!!!

dropping back to oblivion now

I've read about this issue elsewhere, and then found Mr. David's discussion here. I'm quite appalled that a convention or other group would invite someone, say they would pay that person's expenses, wait until very near the convention, and then tell the person "nope, changed our minds." What I find still more appalling is the vitriol being spewed by people in Mr. David's own forum claiming that he is being unprofessional.

Nope. None of that. He is protecting himself and his reputation; he is telling his fans why he will not be at a convention at which he was scheduled to appear; and he is ensuring that later claims that this was all his fault (by fannish revisionists) are debunked now.

If Mr. David wishes to be asked as a guest by other conventions (and, to all accounts, his appearances are very much enjoyed by his fans), he had damned well better make sure that *his* side of the story is public and remembered.

Anyone who says that he should sit quietly and watch his reputation be smeared in order to be a "gentleman" is a damned fool.

(Oh, and I'm one of those idiots who runs conventions in my spare time, for no money.)

Mike Weber noted: I well remember the buttons that were floating around Atlanta fandom that said "Friends don't let friends do WorldCons."

There's a new button in town, Mike. It reads: "Friends don't let friends run Worldcons. Friends help friends run Worldcons.

Kath,
Having grown up in Springfield I need to ask WHY ANYONE would be looking forward to going there? The only place of worth to visit is the Quadrangle with the Dr Suess memorial (unfortunately constructed after I left).

David,
I'm sure that our local conventions, the ones mentioned by Lee Whiteside, would like you to reconsider the statement that you would no longer consider smaller conventions.
Bob LaPierre

FYI, I was at the bostoncomiccon.com this past weekend, and there were fliers for the United Fan Con on the giveaway table. You are still listed as an attendee. Your picture was on the flier without any indication that they had cancelled your apperance.

> People with any common sense at all do not volunteer their time to run a convention for free.

I beg to differ. Some of us find running conventions a lot more fun than attending them. ^__^

I think Peter has definite cause to be upset, but it could have been much worse IMHO. Imagine if UFC simply did not have the money to pay his expenses AFTER he arrived on-site. "We're sorry, we failed to pay the hotel its deposit, so we don't have a room for you. Or half our staff, either. Oh, we can't cover your travel, either."

I have been planning/running conventions since 1994, and we would never rescind an offer to a guest, despite the fiscal ramifications of doing so. But then our segment (anime) has been growing as the SF con circuit has been dying. But what upsets me about some of the comments I see is what I like to call "fan ignorance".

Fans are very quick to criticize events for things out of the events' control, or for doing things differently than the fans expect. Often, it is because the fans simply have no idea what all is involved in running an event, especially a large one. They also don't seem to understand that in some cases, especially for new / small events, the organizers are often personally responsible for financial losses. I've heard people complain about reg rate increases, saying the staff of our event were "getting rich" off the con -- we're all non-paid volunteers, but try to convince the attendees of that.

I think it's unfortunate that UFC decided to "uninvite" you in the manner that they did, but don't assume that they just wanted use of your name for advertising, and now they're done with you. It sounds like they're in serious trouble, and are looking to cut expenses until they bleed. Sure, it's short-sighted of them to cut several quality reliable mid-level guests instead of one demanding headliner, but sometimes you are forced to do things you really don't want to do.

"I've helped run conventions,"

I can confirm that. That so many conventions are run "as a business" is why I no longer attend very many. A convention needs to be run in such a way that receipts equal expenses (at least) with some left over to get the next year's convention underway. The convention needs to be "word of mouth" worthy, so people will tell other people to come. There needs to be the sense of value gained for the money spent attending.

If you do that, you don't need the biggest "name" guests or the highest membership fees.

Peter's been a loyal friend of conventions for as long as I've known him (which is getting to be a really long time :-). Treat him right, and he'll be your friend too.

Looks like this story just hit "Lying in the Gutters."

Just a heads up.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=13

"Peter David has been having his own interesting issues with the United Fan Con, who invited him as a guest back in April, only for them to disinvite him last week because they hadn't sold enough of his signatures in advance. Cue, people telling the con that they aren't coming anymore… "

Ok, I'm lost. Since Peter doesn't charge for his autographs, what is this guy talking about?

Rich's report is inaccurate. I don't charge for autographs. He mixed up several different aspects of the situation.

PAD

Jerry,

That would be referring to the possibility that UFC was going to charge for the autographs, which is different than Peter charging for it. Which might have been a problem with Mr. David when that eventually came out, because I don't think he'd avoid signing any and all other autograph requests or anything.

To The Lop:

While most people here might not be basketball fans, Springfield is the home of the Basketball Hall of Fame, so there is more things to see there than you suggest.

More importantly you can actually see the BHOF from the highway in front of the hotel where UFC is.

To Jay:

Sorry I forgot about the BHOF. Of course when I last visited it it was before the new location was built. And I forgot that Riverside amusement park is now a "Six Flags". My apologies to anyone who still lives there. But you could attend something in Northhampton or Amherst and still visit the attractions in Springfield.

Bob

Bob, as a fellow Springfield escapee, I understand where you're coming from entirely. I go to UFC not to go to back to Springfield, but to hang around with nerd friends for a weekend in a friendly environment. Yes, I'm still going, although I'm not happy about this situation.

Another piece of bad news, BSG's Aaron Douglas has cancelled his appearance.

I remember the good old days when conventions/fan groups were small and the heavy hand of big business didn't enter into it.

When you invited a guest he stated a fee and you paid it.

In those days we got Alan Moore turning up in the top room of a pub in Preston showing pages of a new comic called Watchmen he was writing. Sat on a chair with a pint of beer in his hand (IIRC)

Iain Banks chatting to us about The Wasp Factory and his upcoming work Consider Phlebas.

Nearly throwing up on Brian Aldiss while chatting in a corridor.

Ahhh...Happy Days

I suppose nowadays Conventions are all big business and in business deals go sour.

However this one stinks a bit, I think PAD has been treated somewhat shabbily here, and for it to happen twice in a short period of time ...

What's the saying?

"Fool Me Once, Shame On You! Fool Me Twice, Shame On Me!"

or maybe George's version

"Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

As Peter says, he doesn't charge for an appearance and makes money of what he sells so to cancel one event in favour of another and then to be dropped means a loss of money.

What about all those who booked on the Strength of Peter's name, who now can't get their money back.

Shabby, very Shabby

>Posted by Mark Stansfield at October 23, 2007
>I remember the good old days when >conventions/fan groups were small and the heavy >hand of big business didn't enter into it.

Yes, I miss those days as well. My main problem with all of this UFC stuff is that this is STANDARD operating procedure for them, they've done this kind of thing for years, all the while claiming they are a fan convention.

Let's continue to advertise a guest that we know won't be coming so that we can get more memberships. Then when we announce we've cancelled the guests, let's refuse to refund anyone's money, even though the guest list has changed so drastically that there's no one from the original list left. Fan cons don't pull this kind of crap. I don't care if they're volunteers or not, you DON'T do this kind of thing.

I've helped run conventions in the past, too, as an unpaid volunteer. You do it because you love it and believe in a fan run event, not to make any money. If you are in it to make money, you're in the wrong profession!

Stuff like this gives true fan cons a bad name, and doesn't help out anyone at the end of the day. UFC originally started as a fan con called Wishcon, with the proceeds, if any, going to charity. Boy, have they gotten far from that. All they are now is desperate and money hungry, and I for one won't be sad to see them go down the tubes.

While it would be sad to see one of the few New England cons left go down the tubes, they've far outlived their usefulness, and are out for no one but themselves, have been for years now. I speak as someone who attended for many years, then pretty much stopped when they stopped being what they were claiming to be, which is a fan con.

That is incredibly disheartening. I am a huge fan of yours, Mr. David and I have only seen you at a con once. Not even to get a book signed, but to express gratitude in hand-shake form. Living out here in MA would have given me the opportunity to get one of my favorite books signed, and, hell, maybe even a cool story, but, alas, the convention gods do not know the meaning of professional courtesy or public decency.

If there is a campaign to get you on the bill I'm there. Just let the world know if you're still interested. Thanks and sorry on behalf of buffoonery.

I had a similar experience last year, and I got lucky that I found another way to the show. The kid's father was coming for the weekend to stay at the house and visit the kids, and if we weren't able to be at the show we would have been living in a hotel room in town!

Most shows are run by great people who provide a great experience, but negative experiences can be tough just logisically, but also on the ego. So I empathise (and I think I spelled that wrong).

I got to meet you earlier this year and it was a pleasure. I've been a fan for a loong time!

Mark Stansfield wrote:

I remember the good old days when conventions/fan groups were small and the heavy hand of big business didn't enter into it.

Fan-run amateur ("for the love of it") events can be managed professionally ("in a well-organized manner", not "by people paid a salary for doing so"). Professional gate shows can be managed very amateruishly ("sloppy, poorly managed, without regard for good practices"). See the distinction?

Mary Dumas writes:
Peter, sorry about you being cancelled, but honestly, you'd be better served attending an Arisia or Boskone than a UFC.

*Looks up hopefully*

I just want to say I totally agree with Mary! PAD should totally go to Arisia. Repeatedly, if possible. Arisia is a wonderful convention, and I've heard excellent things about Boskone too.

(I'm also kinda at a loss to figure out why anyone would want to go to UFC w/wo PAD, but I concede that I don't understand the appeal media cons)

I went to GenCon in 1994 and, while I didn't do so especially to meet PAD, I did happen to notice on the schedule that he was doing a seminar around lunchtime on one day. Intrigued, as I liked his writing on (at that time) X-Factor and Incredible Hulk (pink bunny slippers, anyone?), I used a couple of generic event tickets to get a seat. Mr. David was late entering the room, but quickly apologized, as he had convinced catering to provide lunch for everyone (pizzas). He then proceeded to show us clips from a film whose screenplay he'd written. I'll outright say which, but I'll just say this... suing cons into oblivion? I understand that Oblivion's not such a nice place ;)
In appreciation,
a fan

see, now this gives us small conventions a bad name. :(

we would love to have you with us, but you now have a bad taste in your mouth. maybe we could sweeten it next october with yummy halloween candy? or cake? we're fond of cake.

you're always welcome at PhauxCon. :)

sorry to hear about this. I found the con fun last year (and had more to offer and was cheaper than say the last creation venture I went too) meeting you peter was a highlight (I actually got so fangirl and shy I didn't get anything signed.) But from my recollection you were a very personable guest. I found the organizers of that con to be VERY DISORGANIZED. I am glad I did not attend this year.