I didn't think it was possible for any version of Flash Gordon to bore the living crap out of me, but the Sci-Fi Channel managed it.
When BSG was reimagined, Ron Moore removed all the kitschy and campy aspects but replaced it with adult drama and sex. In the case of Flash, the producers likewise removed all the kitschy and campy elements from Flash Gordon, but replaced it with blandness. How colorless was Doctor Zarkov? How staggeringly dull was Ming the Merciless, no longer an evil, vaguely Asian guy but instead an unimposing Caucasian with the amazing ability to convey a total lack of threat. Were the producers REALLY that concerned about protests from Asian groups if they'd portrayed this decades-old iconic character in the classic manner?
And, hey...there was a REASON that Whitney was written out of Smallville: He was colorless and dull. So using him to anchor the series here only succeeds in that, like an anchor, he weighs things down and slows them to a halt.
I wanted to love this series, I really did. I mean, they had me with the prospect of evil aliens invading a bowling alley. (Which I have to think is a tactical mistake on the part of the aliens. If evil aliens showed up on league night standing at the far end of the lanes at my local bowling alley, we'd all just start chucking fifteen pound bowling balls at them.) But the flat writing, miscasting, and non-existent budget sank the pilot episode and I have, frankly, very little hope for subsequent outings.
Is it possible to do a tongue-in-cheek space opera for today's audience? Sure. The producers of "The Adventures of Captain Zoom," an underrated cable gem not even available on home video, accomplished that, featuring a lunkheaded hero, a hilariously offhand villain outing by Ron Perlman, a bewildered-looking Nichelle Nichols who didn't quite seem to understand how she'd wound up there, and a budget of what looked to be $1.79. "Flash Gordon" from those folks would have killed. What we got instead was simply something that killed time, and even that, not very well.
PAD
Posted by Peter David at August 14, 2007 01:48 PM | TrackBack | Other blogs commentingI liked it a bit better than you did, PAD. There were some humorous moments here and there. I actually liked the guy playing Flash, enough that I was surprised when I noticed that he was the same actor who played Whitney, who I hated.
You're right about the boring characters. I'd add the useless black friend. I describe him that way because being black was *all* he did, which made him slightly more memorable than Dr. Zarkov. Of course, the friend pretty much disappeared as soon as Dad's assitant showed up. Once he filled the role of "person for Flash to talk to," the friend obviously wasn't needed anymore.
Plus, generic bounty hunter chick looked so much like Ming's daughter that I thought they were supposed to be clones for awhile.
And you're right about the lack of budget. I can understand that having a lot of the action take place on Earth saves money, but that's *so* far from what the original was about. The original was so out there that having a show be this grounded on Earth almost makes it pointless to call it Flash Gordon.
Overall, I found it exceedingly mediocre. Using Queen's theme song got me hyped up enough to watch it. Seeing that next week's episode is all about generic bounty hunter chick moving in with Flash drains my enthusiasm for giving it a second try.
Flash Gordon and bowling? That sounds like a Flash Gordon parody that my friends and I made in high school (our Flash was a professional bowler).
After a while of forest scenes, it made me think of low budget alert (not even night forest scenes). I guess they didn't want to budget creating a ship either, so they used the warp holes. And the secret gadget? A cheap watch. It did make me yearn for the old serials and the 1980 movie (which I have the soundtrack). So I will buy both and get the bad taste out of my mouth. I will say I did see some promise in the two female leads, and the male lead did remind me a little of Denis Leary. However, I will not revisit the show unless I see some kind of stellar preview trailer of a future episode....
"Captain Zoom" was the best damn version of Flash Gordon ever put on TV. Perlman hamming it up as Not-Ming was absolutely glorious. Didn't hurt that both the Love Interest and the Evil Vamp both had a remarkable degree of depth for such a seemingly low-budget production.
Ironically enough, PAD, the writing had enough touches that felt like your work that for the longest time, I thought you actually had written it.
The fact that it never made it to a series, while Team Knight Rider (from the same series of syndicated movies) got a full season, is an absolute crime.
Damn shame it's not available on DVD, either; I'd snap it up in a second.
Truthfully, I couldn’t watch more than a few minutes of it when they rebroadcast it the other night. It struck me as done in the same vein of Smallville or Buffy and I can’t admit to being a big fan of either. I know there is a big audience for the whole Superhero done as Dawson‘s Creek but I’m not in that audience.
I know the original is viewed as hokey now but, there was a time when channel 13 was rebroadcasting the original series and I had to watch it. I found it exciting even though is was at the time about 30 or 40 years old.
There is a fashion sense that was very specific to a certain kind of scifi - you can even see it in the original Legion costumes. Somehow, I think playing up that part of the equation is part of the whole franchise.
I can’t say I hated it, I just didn’t find it altogether compelling to watch.
I saw the 1980 movie first before watching the series. Not on purpose, really. It just happened to be on TV. So I was all hyped up to watch the new TV show! And wow, my reaction was the same as yours. Incredibly boring. In fact, the two friends I watched it with and I fell asleep partway through.
I wanted camp and bright colors and vague bdsm references. And I got...a soap opera. Try again, Sci-Fi.
"Truthfully, I couldn’t watch more than a few minutes of it when they rebroadcast it the other night. It struck me as done in the same vein of Smallville or Buffy and I can’t admit to being a big fan of either."
Well, I'm not only a fan of the original "Flash Gordon" but also of Buffy and Smallville, so if even *I*, the most target of target audiences, didn't like it...
PAD
They should have done it a la Sin City or not at all. The 80s Flash movie may be the single worst written movie that I love--eye popping sets, incredible costumes, Brian Blessed, Queen...just great stuff. Terrible on most of the ways you would judge a movie but just great stuff nonetheless. Probably a harder trick to pull off than you'd think or they would have done the same thing with Masters of the Universe.
I caught a few minutes of this new thing and bailed. Flesh Gordon looked more interesting (and had better effects, from what I saw).
And if Ming couldn't be Asian he could still be imposing--who's whiter than Max Von Snydow?
If the 80s Flash comes out on HD I might have to seriously consider upgrading my dvd player. (Anyone have advice on the HD vs Blu-ray choice?)
Thanks for the comments here. I have it sitting on our DVR which has less than 10 hours free space at the moment. I guess I can free up 1.5 hours without watching this.
Neil
I wasn't thrilled with the first episode. In fact, it was pretty painful to watch, and the dialogue was horrendous. I'm giving them until they introduce Barin and Vultan. If they can prevent such interesting characters from becoming as bland as the rest of the show, I'll stick with it.
Hmmm. It was so bad that I am not going to give it a second chance unless someone tells me that it has improved significantly.
Hmmm. It was so bad that I am not going to give it a second chance unless someone tells me that it has improved significantly.
Hmmm. It was so bad that I am not going to give it a second chance unless someone tells me that it has improved significantly.
"I know there is a big audience for the whole Superhero done as Dawson‘s Creek..."
I'm really not seeing the comparison to Dawson's Creek. He had a bit of a romance and unresolved issues with a parent, but that's pretty standard stuff. Scrubs has that.
I gotta agree, this was pretty awful, and from the looks of upcoming episodes, it doesn't look like things are going to get much better...
Some of the effects work (especially in the background replacement/extensions) was *really* shoddy... I've seen better effects in some fanfilms...
They cancel Dresden Files, and give us this... {sarcasm}THANKS, SciFi...{/sarcasm}
I sort of liked the new Dale, Gina Holden. Eric Johnson? He's the poor man's Mark- Paul Gosselaar.(Zack Morris). Who would have been much better at this. As for Ming, I honestly can't believe they couldn't find a more exotic type actor who wants to play a villian.
"Well, I'm not only a fan of the original "Flash Gordon" but also of Buffy and Smallville, so if even *I*, the most target of target audiences, didn't like it...
PAD"
I was just about to say this very same thing. I found it boring beyond belief and I had the whole Imex bit figured out pretty quick. I will give it one or two more episodes. If no improvement then it's one less hour away from the keyboard. :)
Bobby
It was called an IMEX? I couldn't figure out what the hell they were looking for.
I never thought I'd say this, but after wathing the pilot, I found myself yearning for the good old days when I could watch the classic serials on Channel 13 out of New York. This series really had nothing to recommend it; in fact, if you changed the names of the characters, you would have no way of knowing that it was Flash Gordon. With the demise of Stargate, I thought I had seen the last of the Vancouver forest du jour, but it appears that we'll now have a lot more of that to look forward to- those who stay with the series that is.
And am I the only one who wondered how Ming could have had a daughter that age? I know, that's like, one of too many annoying elements from the pilot, but it happens to be the one that really bugged me.
John H. nailed it right on the head... They cancel The Dresden Files to bring us this poor excuse for a show!
From the inintial announcement SciFi made ("We're doing a Flash Gordon series to debut in six months!" ) when they didn't have any writers or show runners or even a concept about how to modernize it, I figured it wasn't going to be anything good.
According to reports, the debut got a 1.5 rating with around 2.1 million viewers. About comparable to the highest ratings the Stargates got in their last runs. The best thing SciFi apparently has to say about it is that it was the highest rated series debut on SciFi in 2007 (Dresden Files did a 1.4, Painkiller Jane did a 1.3). I'll be surprised if Flash manages to maintain that level and its likely to drop into the 1.0 range pretty quickly.
Lee Whiteside
SFTV.org
I was prepared to be underwhelmed when I read about the overall theme earlier in the week: not Flash Gordon, rocketing off in a classic "fish out of water" adventure, but Flash Gordon, trying to juggle home life while saving the earth at the same time. Once I saw that, I knew the series would bomb.
The first Flash Gordon I fell in love with was not the 1980s movie, but the 1970s Saturday morning cartoon. You had the action/adventure, the classic serial cliffhanger ending each week, and a great villain. Even the animation was advanced for its time (it hasn't aged well - but for Saturday morning of the time it probably had more depth to it than anything else).
The live action movie was a bit more camp than action, but with Max Von Sydow, Topol. Brian Blessed and Timothy Dalton, it managed to be better than the script.
This version disappoints on all levels. Ming has no presence as a villain. They are centering a lot of the action on Earth instead of Mongo. The quest is for the father, not to save Earth. Zharkov is a geek rather than a genius. Finally, no cliffhanger. What's Flash Gordon without a cliffhanger???
This show is failing on just about every level. Like the new BG, it may as well not even call itself by its title.
Anyone have advice on the HD vs Blu-ray choice?
Blu-Ray is winning right now, but since neither side is going to throw in the towel any time soon, you might want to look into a dual-player even though they're not cheap - they probably still beat paying for two overpriced players.
Bill Mulligan, what size TV do you have?
My over 10 year old 27 inch TV died finally and by happy luck Wal-Mart was getting rid of their stock of older HDTV sets so we got a nice floor model for better than half price. It's a wide-screen TV with a 31' diagonal.
They are also offering 3 months free HD service here so we made the mistake of signing up for it. I say mistake because once you watch HD on an HD set every other channel looks like it was filmed using a security camera during a snowstorm. The Discovery channel alone is worth the price.
Regular DVDs look very nice indeed on an HD TV but I know that if I get an HD DVD player I will want to upgrade all my DVDs...I'm about to have 3 kids in college, I really don't need these temptations.
At 31 inches, it's extremely hard for most people to tell a difference between DVD and HD-DVD. Usually anything below 42 inches isn't worth the upgrade. On my 42" plasma I can tell a difference between regular TV and DVDs, but the DVDs look perfect to me so I wouldn't notice anything better.
Before you buy, you might want to borrow someone else's HD player and see if you can tell a difference on your TV.
Jason, correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that even standard DVDs also looked better when played on a HD machine?
That being said, I'm in no great hurry to invest in HD. The prevailing wisdom seems to be that it's better to wait a while for things to shake down. The fact that players on both sides of the fence have dropped in price is incidental; after all, what good would it have done to buy a Betamax for fifty bucks when the tapes were gone from stores a few months later.
BTW I noticed that the current Best Buy flyer is selling a DVD of Flash Gordon, episodes one and two this week. I would recommend that anybody who was planning on buying it should just take that money out of their wallet and burn it. That way, you won't feel any worse having to sit through this piece of crap again, but you'll also save a couple of bucks in gas.
Whenever anyone wanted me in third grade they sang the Queen song. I was utterly devoted to the cartoon. I wanted wings not because of Hawkman but because of Vultan. So, I was thinking if it's at least half as good as the cartoon, I'll like it. I tried. I really did. But a woman from Mongo that can drive a 4X4? THAT was Zarkov? Somewhere, Sam J. Jones and Topol are wondering why they suddenly have headaches. I'll give it a chance, you don't wanna blow everything in your pilot, but SOMETHING's gotta get in there.
PAD,
Just curious. I assume by "original Flash Gordon", you're referring to the Buster Crabbe movie serials of the 1930s and 40s, and not the Sam J. Jones movie, right?
Not to imply that you were around in the 30s or 40s, but movie serials from that era do survive, and I trust that you do know about them.
And speaking of _Flash Gordon_, anyone interested in the _real_ original Flash might want to check out the seven volume reprints of Alex Raymond's Sunday strips published by Checker Book Publishing Group. Raymond's artwork could be fantastic at times.
It's interesting to note, by the way, that in the very first _Flash Gordon_ comic strip, the "world-renowned polo player" is wearing a parachute as a passenger on a transcontinental plane. A wing of this plane is struck by a meteor and Flash bails out, carrying fellow passenger Dale Arden in his arms.
How interesting that he knew he should have a parachute handy on that particular flight. Could it be that he was in on Ming the Merciless' plans all along, that their battles were all staged?
Nah, he probably just attended the Rick Jones School of Flying Vehicle Escapes.
Flash also suffers regular bouts of certain types of James T. Kirkitis, and often loses his shirt before a battle.
But again, great artwork and entertaining stories.
As to the new series, didn't see it.
Saw the Sam J. Jones movie when it came out and liked it at the time. Haven't seen it since. I suspect I'd still like it- on a nostalgic level, if nothing else.
Rick
P.S. Completely off topic because it has nothing to do with polo players, or football players, or bowling leagues or women named Dale with no connection to Roy Rogers, or rulers described as "merciless"; but today, Aug. 15, is the day the summer issue of the audio zine SCYWEB BEM- which features my short story, "Ascension"- is scheduled to publish.
Be the envy of all your friends. Be the first on your block to get a copy.
C'mon, we're talking about the (we hate)Sci-Fi channel. Is anyone really surprised it was such a waste? Alex Raymond must be doing about 500 RPM's right about now.
Its such a shame MST3K isn't still around. This thing was pretty much tailor made for that show. It's about the only way it could generate any entertainment value.
I’m just thinking with a bunch of better casting choices it could really hold up well - David Duchovny is a bit long in tooth to play Flash but I bet he would be a decent Doctor Zarkov. And I can’t imagine anyone out there today besides Ian McKellen playing Ming.
>They are also offering 3 months free HD service here so we made the mistake of signing up for it. I say mistake because once you watch HD on an HD set every other channel looks like it was filmed using a security camera during a snowstorm.
Had this come about fifteen years ago, I'd have seriously considered making the jump to HD. But now? With all the screen clutter networks add on to the picture - from "you're watching 'x' show (as though one was unable to read a TV guide?!) and other unwanted pop-ups, to the ever-present channel identifier - it brings to mind the editorial comic someone posted here at work where panel one had a generic, non-HD tv screen, and panel two showing "HD - the same crap in sharper focus". I'll pass.
It's sad, really, when a fancy, updated effects-filled show manages to utterly fail to be anywhere near as engaging as the 30's Buster Crabbe serial. But then, I felt the same way when I recently saw the '02 pilot remake of TIME TUNNEL (missed it the first time out) and was depressed to see the low budget 60s Allen original was superior in many respects.
As for the 80s FLASH GORDON film? The only thing I'll say about it is that I got a free pass to see it and still felt like asking for a refund when I got out.
The 80s Flash movie may be the single worst written movie that I love--eye popping sets, incredible costumes, Brian Blessed, Queen...just great stuff. Terrible on most of the ways you would judge a movie but just great stuff nonetheless.
DIIIIIIIIIIIIVE!
Sorry, had to get that out of my system. :-)
And yes, the '80s film is one of the absolute best guilty pleasures known to man. A horrible script, but a surprisingly good cast once you exclude the two leads: Blessed, Dalton, von Sydow, Peter Wyngarde, even Richard "Riff Raff" O'Brien in a small role. (The less said about Sam J. Jones and Melody Anderson, the better.)
I am so very tempted to get the "Savior of the Universe Edition" DVD that just came out.
Put it on a double bill with "Xanadu" and I'm in Bad Movie Heaven.
TWL
The "Imex/Timex" was their lame attept at a "V'ger /Voyager 6" moment, but for the longest time I was wondering if someone was going to ask them why they were so interested in really big movie screens?
From the Hollywood Reporter: "Sci Fi Channel is pulling the plug on 'Painkiller Jane.' .... The cancellation of 'Jane' comes on the heels of the strong Friday premiere of another Sci Fi series based on a comic strip, 'Flash Gordon,' which scored the channel’s best series premiere numbers this year."
Based on the name only of "Flash Gordon" it appears enough people tried it out to please SciFi. It will be interesting to see how week 2 does.
Neil
My review:
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!
It was so lame that even talking about it here becomes a discussion of HD-DVDs to break the boredom.
I remember watch the original Buster Crabbe serials every New Years Eve for years when I was a kid. Never liked the '80s movie, just too goofy for me. This new show was very disappointing. Too many secrets, hidden agendas, mysterious pasts and zip on action.
Had this come about fifteen years ago, I'd have seriously considered making the jump to HD. But now? With all the screen clutter networks add on to the picture - from "you're watching 'x' show (as though one was unable to read a TV guide?!) and other unwanted pop-ups, to the ever-present channel identifier - it brings to mind the editorial comic someone posted here at work where panel one had a generic, non-HD tv screen, and panel two showing "HD - the same crap in sharper focus". I'll pass.
I hear you, bro. Having the USA NETWORK logo plopped in the corner of a film does break the mood. It's especially ludicrous when it's a letterboxed film--they go through the trouble of trying to make it look decent and then ruin it with a a superimposed logo...wtf?
DIIIIIIIIIIIIVE!
GORDON'S ALIVE!
Nice to see you back, Tim. :)
Xanadu? Xanadoo-oo-oo (now we are here)
In Xanadu!
God, what a movie! Fun Fact--if Xanadu hadn't been a total BO disaster the NEXT movie on Olivia Newton John's plate would have been THE SILVER SURFER!
***Posted by The StarWolf at August 15, 2007 07:52 AM
Had this come about fifteen years ago, I'd have seriously considered making the jump to HD. But now? With all the screen clutter networks add on to the picture - from "you're watching 'x' show (as though one was unable to read a TV guide?!) and other unwanted pop-ups, to the ever-present channel identifier - it brings to mind the editorial comic someone posted here at work where panel one had a generic, non-HD tv screen, and panel two showing "HD - the same crap in sharper focus". I'll pass.*******
Six of one, half-dozen of the other on some of that ID stuff. It depends on how you look at it if it qualifies as "useless clutter" or not. For someone who's from a different town, and who's not at all familiar with the local cable/satellite set-up, or who uses a company where they illogically randomly assign channel numbers to the stations without bothering to see what numbers the stations call themselves by (i.e. Channel 13 is #20 on the cable box, Channel 25 is #150 on the 'box, Channel 3 is #580, ect.), those little channel ID boxes become invaluable for telling the viewer just where s/he's at on the dial.
And speaking of the 1980's Flash Gordan film, does anyone remember the novelization to that one? It's been a few years since I last read it, but if I recallit correctly, the thing was a couple of steps shy of softcore porn -- or at least it read that way to my teenage self. Like, the main activity at Ming's court seemed to be getting laid with whoever the newest servant/slave/harem person of the court happened to be. Fun stuff, at least for a teenager.
Chris
"I can’t imagine anyone out there today besides Ian McKellen playing Ming."
I can imagine everyone out there playing Ming. Where did they get that guy? Donald Trump would be more threatening as Ming.
Some dark part of my mind changed the song line "Flash - Ahhhh!" to "Flash - Suuuucks!".
Mike
I'm about to give up on the (not)Sci Fi Channel. They don't greenlight a BSG sequel/spin off. They cancel Dresden, which was excellently made and interesting. They don't pick up Blade, the series, another pretty-well made, fun, and interesting show that Spike cancelled after one poor ratings season. Then they give Painkiller Jane and Flash (for a speed walker) Gordon full season orders before an episode is ever aired.
I'll not even mention the decision to air such Sci Fi staples as golf and wrestling.
I've tried watching Flash several times. I have a hard time getting over how the savior of the universe is a marathon runner. That's not Flash. That's slow and steady wins the race. What, they couldn't even make him a sprinter? Maybe they needed a long enough intro to get through the opening credits, and the pre-race warmup sprinters go through just wasn't compelling enough.
I'll try to get through this first episode, but a good part of me is hoping those good ratings drop terribly for the second week. Alas, I think there's good portion of the sci-fi audience that is just starved for something even remotely resembling good sci fi until BSG comes back. They'll turn in for the first 3 or 4 weeks, inflating ratings on what is clearly a bad, bad show.
>For someone who's from a different town, and who's not at all familiar with the local cable/satellite set-up, or who uses a company where they illogically randomly assign channel numbers to the stations without bothering to see what numbers the stations call themselves
That would be what the "Info" button on the remote control is for. Again, there is no real need for these intrusive measures. Another option: just go back to having station IDs during the commercial breaks as they'd had for fourty years.
bobb,
although I was entirely unimpressed with SciFi's treatment of Flash Gordon, him being a marathon runner wasn't on my list of problems. I saw some earlier version where he was, I think, a gold medalist decathalon athlete.
GORDON'S ALIVE!
WHY IS EVERYTHING I SAY IN ALL CAPS? (That's in the closed-captioning, in case you missed it.)
Brian Blessed is really high on my list of "actors I'd love to see on stage, or better yet get to have lunch with just once." It's never gonna happen, clearly. (The closest I came was seeing Patrick Stewart's one-man Christmas Carol performance on stage; he's explicitly stated that he based his Ghost of Christmas Present on Blessed.)
Fun Fact--if Xanadu hadn't been a total BO disaster the NEXT movie on Olivia Newton John's plate would have been THE SILVER SURFER!
I'm not sure I can buy that one without some sort of citation. It's just so amazingly out there. It's not impossible -- I can certainly imagine some early '80s film exec coked out of his skull and sugggesting it -- but I'd love to see some confirmation of that.
And it's good to be back -- hopefully I can stick around a bit more this time.
TWL
Rick, as far as I'm concerned, Buster Crabbe will always be Flash Gordon. Not that I'm old enough to have seen them in the local theater with a double feature and a newsreel, but I certainly watched them when they came to Channel 13 in New York.
And Sean, I can sympathize with being identified with a theme son. When I was six or seven, I absolutely loved the Batman TV theme song. My dad who was a teacher, used to run a summer camp during the summer and one day during lunch, one of the camp administrators made an announcement over the PA system that they were dedicating a song to me, and played the Batman theme! Once you've been laughed at by a hundred or so kids, it's time to find a new favorite song. Or at least a cooler one.
To whoever mentioned Ian McKellen as Ming, don't you think the fact that Sci-Fi has cast a group of relatively unknown actors, I assume from Vancouver, would suggest they're not exactly paying star salaries here? This may be the cheapest-looking Sci-Fi series since, well, the last one which I guess is Painkiller Jane and look what just happened there.
Joe--in a case like that, there is a third option. The song protection program.
WHY IS EVERYTHING I SAY IN ALL CAPS?
Because your words are all really good in the outfield? No?
You gotta love the spikey arena combat scene from the movie. I loved it so much that I (loosely) based a fight on it in one of my novels. And any movie with Richard O' Brien playing a flute in tights can't be ALL bad, right?
Geez, those crickets are loud.
Tim--have you caught Brian Blessed's King Richard in the first season of the Black Adder? FRESH HORSES! Damn, now I'm doing it.
I could slag SciFi but, they came up with Eureka and I absolutely love that series and they also did The Lost Room which I hope they either do a sequel to or at least try to make that into a series.
Tim--have you caught Brian Blessed's King Richard in the first season of the Black Adder?
Yep. And his King Yrcanos in Doctor Who (back in the mid-80s), and his Duke of Exeter in Branagh's Henry V, and his Emperor Augustus in I,CLAVDIVS ...
Does this guy ever play someone NOT of royal blood?
TW(as quick as boiled asparagus)L
Fun Fact--if Xanadu hadn't been a total BO disaster the NEXT movie on Olivia Newton John's plate would have been THE SILVER SURFER!
I'm not sure I can buy that one without some sort of citation. It's just so amazingly out there. It's not impossible -- I can certainly imagine some early '80s film exec coked out of his skull and sugggesting it -- but I'd love to see some confirmation of that.
Doubt me, do you? Well, here's our very own Robert (Bob) Greenberger (http://www.bluecanary.net/news/2007/02/18/hollywood-does-comics/)
Everyone got very excited when Steranko's Mediascene mag announced a Silver Surfer movie was going to be made with Olivia Newton-John attached as Shalla Bal. Never happened.
That's where I heard about it as well. If you can ever score the Jim Steranko Xanadu issue of his magazine MEDIASCENE PREVUE #42 you can read the grim details--there is a nice SILVER SURFER back cover by Mike Bryan.
The part that really stuck in my head--and this is over 25 years ago--is that the producers had supposedly spent a great deal of money to actually make a board that could hover off the floor. They could only get it to rise a few feet but were hoping that with some more money and reserch they could get it higher up. And I'm thinking "Holy Christ, these idiots think that the secret to making a good Silver Surfer movie is to actually make a surf boars float!"
I know that sounds like the result of college year drug ingestion but at http://www.tcj.com/253/f_stanlee.html I read the following: Lee Kramer, Olivia Newton-John's former boyfriend and manager, was moving forward on a proposed $20-million Silver Surfer production. Paul McCartney had been approached about the score, and a levitation device was being built at the Imperial College in London.
(This page also has some things on it that (if true) we can all thank the heavens never got made. Example: "A Silver Surfer treatment contained elements of early-'70s blaxploitation movies. In Lee's proposed storyline, the Surfer races across the Earth on his board. As he swoops down over New York, a "tall, overdressed black man" enters the picture: "It's Sweet-Daddy Wisdom, leader of New York's Black Mafia. He aims a hand gun at the Surfer. He commands the Surfer to land gently and get off the board. He says that everyone's been trying to get a line on him. And now he belongs to Sweet-Daddy Wisdom. Ol' Sweet-Daddy's gone and caught himself the world's choice prize. He's captured the ultimate honky.")
(I disagree with Bob on one aspect though--I thought that Olivia Newton-John was going to play Ardina, from the Lee-Kirby Silver Surfer graphic novel, not Shalla-Bal)
Any way, yeah, it's true. Horribly, horribly true...
Fun Fact--if Xanadu hadn't been a total BO disaster the NEXT movie on Olivia Newton John's plate would have been THE SILVER SURFER!
I'm not sure I can buy that one without some sort of citation. It's just so amazingly out there. It's not impossible -- I can certainly imagine some early '80s film exec coked out of his skull and sugggesting it -- but I'd love to see some confirmation of that.
Doubt me, do you? Well, here's our very own Robert (Bob) Greenberger (www.bluecanary.net/news/2007/02/18/hollywood-does-comics/)
Everyone got very excited when Steranko's Mediascene mag announced a Silver Surfer movie was going to be made with Olivia Newton-John attached as Shalla Bal. Never happened.
That's where I heard about it as well. If you can ever score the Jim Steranko Xanadu issue of his magazine MEDIASCENE PREVUE #42 you can read the grim details--there is a nice SILVER SURFER back cover by Mike Bryan.
The part that really stuck in my head--and this is over 25 years ago--is that the producers had supposedly spent a great deal of money to actually make a board that could hover off the floor. They could only get it to rise a few feet but were hoping that with some more money and reserch they could get it higher up. And I'm thinking "Holy Christ, these idiots think that the secret to making a good Silver Surfer movie is to actually make a surf boars float!"
I know that sounds like the result of college year drug ingestion but at www.tcj.com/253/f_stanlee.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.tcj.com/253/f_stanlee.html I read the following: Lee Kramer, Olivia Newton-John's former boyfriend and manager, was moving forward on a proposed $20-million Silver Surfer production. Paul McCartney had been approached about the score, and a levitation device was being built at the Imperial College in London.
(This page also has some things on it that (if true) we can all thank the heavens never got made. Example: "A Silver Surfer treatment contained elements of early-'70s blaxploitation movies. In Lee's proposed storyline, the Surfer races across the Earth on his board. As he swoops down over New York, a "tall, overdressed black man" enters the picture: "It's Sweet-Daddy Wisdom, leader of New York's Black Mafia. He aims a hand gun at the Surfer. He commands the Surfer to land gently and get off the board. He says that everyone's been trying to get a line on him. And now he belongs to Sweet-Daddy Wisdom. Ol' Sweet-Daddy's gone and caught himself the world's choice prize. He's captured the ultimate honky.")
(I disagree with Bob on one aspect though--I thought that Olivia Newton-John was going to play Ardina, from the Lee-Kirby Silver Surfer graphic novel, not Shalla-Bal)
Any way, yeah, it's true. Horribly, horribly true...
You know what would have been great? George Takei as Ming. Yeah, I know he's not Chinese, but it still would have been awesome. I love a villain you can root for.
I guess I am one of the few who enjoyed the show. I thought it was 'relatively' well done. (Although I did think the Ming charater was incredibly boring.)
I think the main thing I like about it was that it seems like it has a lot of potential for stories. (The two other things that bugged me were the torturer guy who appeared to be on a Segway through most of the time he was on screen and Imex/Timex thing.) Obviously it was not BSG, but on a scale of 10 I would put it at about a 7.
It actually kept me entertained for the 90 minutes and made me want to see more. (But I also like Painkiller Jane, and couldn't stand Dresden Files so I guess that puts me in the minority of the comments about those two as well.)
Does this guy ever play someone NOT of royal blood?
The most memorable role (outside of those already mentioned) has to be Suleman Khan in the Tom Selleck flick High Road to China.
Maybe I should say memorable word instead of role:
SPEEEEEEAK
And I'd still pay money for any movie of ONJ's. Lots of good memories - even if the movies were bad.
The most memorable role (outside of those already mentioned) has to be Suleman Khan in the Tom Selleck flick High Road to China.
Hmm. That's one I don't know. I'll have to look at it sometime, even if it means enduring Selleck.
And Bill -- thanks for all the info. It's not that I didn't trust you -- it was just so weird that I wanted to see something more firsthand. Thanks.
And I'd still pay money for any movie of ONJ's. Lots of good memories - even if the movies were bad.
Leave Two of a Kind out of the list and I'll agree with you. That one's so bad I can't even watch it just for ONJ. (Lower quality than Xanadu AND a far weaker soundtrack -- not a good combination!)
Speaking of Xanadu, has anyone here seen the revival of it on Broadway? The reviews I've read have been surprisingly positive.
TWL
Whenever I think of Brian Blessed, I don't think of Voltan. I think of Caesar Augustus bellowing "IS THERE ANYONE IN ROME WHO HAS NOT SLEPT WITH MY DAUGHTER?!?"
PAD
RE: CAPTAIN ZOOM
The best thing to come out of the Action Pack, so naturally it didn't get follow-up movies or a series like HERCULES, XENA, or VANISHING SON. Especially worthy for one of the greatest, and utterly WTF, lines ever. Virgin priestess in the service of Ron Pearlman's Big Bad propositions him. His response: "I can't have sex with you. Having sex with you would be like having sex with my mother -- and I never enjoyed that."
Now if they'd just make a FLASH GORDON soundtrack with all the Queen and none of the movie dialogue . . .
Sean Scullion :"I was utterly devoted to the cartoon."
I pre-ordered the DVD the day I saw it listed. The first season of that thing was great. The second season of it... Well, it was still better then that crippled thing that wasted 90 minutes of screen time last week.
Bill Mulligan :"Xanadu? Xanadoo-oo-oo (now we are here) In Xanadu!"
Stop raiding my DVD collection.
PAD :"Whenever I think of Brian Blessed, I don't think of Voltan. I think of Caesar Augustus... "
See, and I'm always stuck with Mark of Cornwall in my brain.
Captain Zoom ruled.
You know, it's actually really sad how much good stuff is out there VS the crap that it becomes. Dan Jurgens did a great Flash mini that would have been a hell of a lot better template then what they went with. Flash Gordon cartoon that Sean (I was beginning to think that I was the only kid who ever watched it, let alone remembered it) and I loved so much would have been worlds better then this thing. Hell, people on this thread have thrown out "what ifs" and killed boredom on dieing threads by coming up with better plot ideas then this thing had going for it. And a bunch of paid pros approved, created and aired... This thing.
My biggest gripe with it (besides be often aimless and boring) was that the dialog just came off as having been written by somebody with no clue how to script for TV. Some of it may have worked on a page or, just barely, in an audio production, but it sounded stupid on a TV program. There were entire exchanges that looked like something that would read well as comedic exchanges, but just didn't work well when spoken on screen.
That problem seemed to also infect the pacing of the thing. Lots of it seemed like something written by someone who had no clue how the actual pacing of live actors and a set would slow things down to a crawl or just bore the hell out of the viewer.
I'm with the poster who's waiting for Baron and Voltan. It might get better with a few episodes behind it and it might get better with other writers thrown into the mix. But it's dropping off of my DVR by episode three if they're not in the mix and it's still craptacular in nature and supreme in its boringness.
Whenever I think of Brian Blessed, I don't think of Voltan. I think of Caesar Augustus bellowing "IS THERE ANYONE IN ROME WHO HAS NOT SLEPT WITH MY DAUGHTER?!?"
That's an awesome moment, but I didn't see the early episodes of I, Claudius until a number of years after their run. (I was something like 8 when it first aired in the US, and apparently my dad was fine w/ me watching Caligula but not Augustus. Yyyyyyeah.) Vultan is, at least to my memory, the first role I saw Blessed play, and under those circumstances it's extremely tough to keep the image out of my head.
And that said, I hope that you, o man with four daughters, never have cause to echo that bellow!
TWL
And Bill -- thanks for all the info. It's not that I didn't trust you -- it was just so weird that I wanted to see something more firsthand. Thanks.
Oh I knew that...I would have a hard time believeing it myself.
here's another bit I just remembered--the producers had a great idea on how to explain why the Silver Surfer had a surfboard. Zenn-La, they theorized, was an ocean world, where everybody used surfboards to travel. So there you are.
You know, it never ever occurred to me to wonder why the Silver Surfer had a surfboard. I guess I just assumed that's what a Silver Surfer would have.
"IS THERE ANYONE IN ROME WHO HAS NOT SLEPT WITH MY DAUGHTER?!?"
Bloody hell, I know I'D say I hadn't, even if caught in fligrante dilicto with said daughter.
Jerry, there's DVD's? THERE'S DVD'S? WHERE WHERE WHERE?
I saw that Whitney from SMALLVILLE was playing Flash Gordon and I didn't even bother. Glad to hear my instincts were right.
Sean,
www.deepdiscount.com/viewproduct.htm?productId=5739583
One thing I noticed while watching is that besides Flash's MILFish mom and his father, we NEVER see anyone over 30. Everyone at the marathon (And what kind of road race billed as a "Tri-City Marathon" ends in the middle of some housing development?) and at the club all looked as if they were in their 20s. Pandering much?
For anyone out there with no clue what Sean and I are babbling about... Just buy it. Not only was it a surprisingly good version (made even more surprising since it was a Saturday morning cartoon) of Flash Gordon, but the soundtrack was partially a riff of Holst's The Planets. The theme for Ming's robot soldiers and most of the really cool battles with his armada is a pretty good imitation of The Bringer of War.
Maybe no big deal to some, but I kinda dug the music when I was a kid.
Posted by: Jerry Chandler at August 15, 2007 10:56 PM:
re: Flash Gordon cartoon
"(I was beginning to think that I was the only kid who ever watched it, let alone remembered it)."
I have a very distant childhood memory of a Flash Gordon Cartoon. I remember being very impressed with it at the time.
Posted by: Bill Mulligan at August 15, 2007 11:22 PM
"You know, it never ever occurred to me to wonder why the Silver Surfer had a surfboard. I guess I just assumed that's what a Silver Surfer would have."
After all, he's called the Silver Surfer not the Silver Pogo-Sticker.
>Whenever I think of Brian Blessed, I don't think of Voltan. I think of Caesar Augustus bellowing "IS THERE ANYONE IN ROME WHO HAS NOT SLEPT WITH MY DAUGHTER?!?"
What I think of is:
"QUINTILLIUS VARRUS, WHERE ARE MY EAGLES?!?"
I thought it was a decent show. But it wasn't FLASH GORDON. That's a title that conjures images of rocket ships, bird-people, swashbuckling adventure and derring-do. This was not that.
Incidentally, anyone else see the 90's animated series? I thought it was quite fun. Yes, it 'updated' things to a blatant degree, but it was far more successful than this outing.
A friend of mine disliked the Silver Surfer precisely because he never understood why a cosmic entity would be a surfer, of all things.
Haven't seen the new series of FG but will try this weekend's episode, with clenched teeth.
LOVED the cartoon (also cut into a movie version). Also the Crabbe and the original strips.
Not a huge fan of Captain Zoom, however.
"Virgin priestess in the service of Ron Pearlman's Big Bad propositions him. His response: "I can't have sex with you. Having sex with you would be like having sex with my mother -- and I never enjoyed that."
A great line, but my favorite still remains after Vox's (Perlman's) men have apparently blown Captain Zoom out of space. Vox laughs triumphantly and then completely changes tone and says, "Okay, that's lunch, everybody." And just like a movie set clearing out, everyone promptly gets to their feet and walks away, clearing the set.
PAD
Okay, here's the thing, I hated that 1980 movie. Actually, hated may not be a strong enough word for my feelings towards that badly acted, badly written, badly done SFX, badly directed steaming pile of monkey doodoo. It was well passed the "so bad it's fun" stage and into, "so bad it's physically painful for me to watch."
Oh, and I hated the Queen sound track, too. So, using that to promote the new TV series didn't exactly raise my hopes. PAD's review was spot on, it's just plain dull and lifeless. If this is what Skiffy thinks is better TV than the Dresden Files, then I don't have much hope for them.
Captain Zoom, however, was everthing a Flash Gordon movie should have been. Wasn't that produced by Sam Raimi?
Wait, back up...
Den, are you saying that Sci-Fi has canned Dresden? I haven't heard anything about that, but that's the way your comment comes across.
Hmmm. In a way or two, I am glad that I do not like the new Flash Gordon series. Every time I get to enjoy a series on this channel, they cancel it. FARSCAPE and BATTLESTAR GALACTICA,
Man, I'm glad I'm not the only one who kept thinking "Captain Zoom." Gotta dig up a copy of that.
I'm another who really wanted to like this. I mean, it's Flash Frickin' Gordon!
I admit, I'm a know-nothing young pup who knows Flash mainly from the Filmation animated series and the wonderfully awful movie (which I'll be picking up on DVD this weekend) but even what I've caught of the original serials and comics had more life than this.
Ordinarily I try and give shows 3-5 eps to iron out most of the bumps but after falling asleep on this I was ready to just call it quits right then. The only reason I'll stick around is that I know (well, in a 'net sense) someone who has joined the writing staff as of the second episode and I've enjoyed a lot of the stuff she's been involved with before. She says they're gonna pick up and everyone is having fun (yeah, they always say that) so I'm hoping it starts to come thru on screen.
Oh...from the sound of it, the pilot was planned to be a two-hour thing and she says a lot of the humor and character got lost when it was edited down to a 90 minute spot, for what that's worth.
The mention of the Flash Gordon animated series gave me a flashback of my early childhood. I think I was only in kindergardne or early elemtary when I watched that show, and I'm not sure how well I understood what was going on. I haven't heard anything about it or Flash Gordon since then. And now I'm having flashbacks of the few imagers I remember of that show. I remember that at the time I was extremely impressed by it. It's amazing to be so young that everything seems new and fresh and original.
Do you know about a show that involved a spaceship that looked like a WWII war ship, whose commander looked like a navy admiral?
Do you know about a show that involved a spaceship that looked like a WWII war ship, whose commander looked like a navy admiral?
That would probably be STAR BLAZERS aka Space Battleship Yamato aka Uchū Senkan Yamato
Micha--I think(contrary to the general opinion of me 'round here) what you're thinking if is Star Blazers which, at least in my neighborhood, the second great anime series to be shown. Now, if money wasn't the nasty elusive thing for me that it is, that would ALSO be gracing my DVD collection. Here's the link--
http://www.starblazers.com/
Now, if that's not it, then I am wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Blazers
Has some more info on the various versions and movies, including a proposed remake by Disney that would have changed the ship to the USS Arizona!
http://youtube.com/results?search_query=star+blazers&search=Search
Has a few clips. Star Blazers and Robotech were two of the shows that really introduced anime to a lot of Americans.
hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Blazers
Has some more info on the various versions and movies, including a proposed remake by Disney that would have changed the ship to the USS Arizona!
hxxp://youtube.com/results?search_query=star+blazers&search=Search
Has a few clips. Star Blazers and Robotech were two of the shows that really introduced anime to a lot of Americans.
Note- replace the xx with tt in the urls
Ok Sean, how come when I use a full url I get snagged in the anti-spam filter while you, a known pusher of Viagra and Nigerian money scams, get to post them without any trouble? And don't say "clean living" because, hey, we know you.
We recently watched the first season of Star Blazers over again, and it's interesting to see how well some bits of it age and just how poorly others do. There's a lot, and I mean a LOT, of repetition over the course of the season -- I realize that a lot of that's due to it being marketed in the US to kids, but even so.
It was still fun, but not really the show I remembered sprinting home to watch every afternoon.
TWL
Because the spam filter was designed by now-rich, now-satisfied Nigerians, Bill. It's good to have friends in all walks of life.
Flash Gordon's animated series and Star Blazers both hold spots dear to my childhood TV time. Now, anybody here remember The Children of the Stones, The Tomorrow People, the 60's Ultra Man, Space Giants and Into the Labyrinth?
oh, and I mean the old version of The Tomorow People and not that really craptacular one from the 90's.
I've got seasons 1-2 of the old Tomorrow People on DVD, with others to be purchased whenever time and finances permit. You BET I remember them. (I've started showing them to my wife -- they hold up pretty well considering the time period and the age of many of the leads.)
And "Children of the Stones," if I remember correctly, was one of the stories that aired under Nickelodeon's "The Third Eye" aegis. Good stuff.
TWL
I'm in the same Tomorrow People position as you. I got the first two box sets to begin to better flesh out kid's selection of the DVD shelf and am waiting on the last for later down the road. Of course, I cheated. I mentioned them heavily to our then unborn baby's grandparents and got them as gifts.
Jenn had never seen them before, but she thought they were pretty clever, aged well and would be fine for Ian. However, she doesn't believe a word of my story that they were actually gotten primarily for him.
Thanks for the info about Star Blazers. That's the show. I was 5-6 when I watched it. I'm not sure how much I was aware of the story of the show. I typed the Hebrew name of the show into google and got many hits to nostalgic sites by Israelis around my age. At the time we only had one TV channel, so all the kids pretty much watched the same handful of shows. Some were rerun many times, so I have a good recollection of them, but this is the first time I've heard of or even thought of Flash Gordon or Star Blazers since then. The internet is certainly very conductive for nostalgia.
Thanks again for the trip down some of the poorly lit sections of memory lane.
Micha,
Try youtube.com and dogpile.com for video clips of the shows. They've got some old shows intros only out there, but they've actually footage for a few of them.
Micha,
Try youtube.com and dogpile.com for video clips of the shows. They've got some old shows intros only out there, but they've actually footage for a few of them.
Micha,
Try youtube and dogpile for video clips of the shows. They've got some old shows intros only out there, but they've actually footage for a few of them.
Ok, the sites being strange. 1st post gave me an error message, 2nd post said the filter snagged it and then the 3rd goes through and takes the other two with it.
~8?\
Second episode was better. Still not great, but good enough to bring me back next weeek.
I also wasn't very impressed by the bits of the show I've seen (and also had trouble telling the princess and bounty hunter apart, thinking the princess was moving in with Flash in episode 2). Of course, I don't have that strong of a connection with Falsh Gordon, knowing the serial mainly as an influence on Star Wars. Of the couple of times I remember seeing the 1980 movie, the first thoughts that come to mind, besides general cheesiness, are Ornella Muti (sp?) (the princess) being an attractive woman, and that that Flash reminds me of a punier version of Big Mc Largehuge - er, David Rider - from Space Mutiny (speaking of MST3K; proof that they could make a bad movie VERY entertaining).
Oh, and as for on-screen clutter on TV - even if the corner id boxes are sometimes of use, it's debateable that they need to be as large as some of them are. And the, sometimes very large and animated, ads some stations are starting to impose during movies and shows featuring other shows on their network, are a helluva lot less beneficial.
I thought the second episode was worse. I got about 2/3rds of the way through it before giving up. Way too many stilted lines, way too many silly moments, way too few interesting characters.
I like the actress who plays Dale. She should get her own show.
Jason, if you like the actress who plays Dale, then check out the Lifetime series BLOODTIES. It's a great vampire-detective-horror-romantic-comedy series where she plays the lead detective's assistant.
As one of the writers of Captain Zoom, I humbly agree that I could've done a better job with Flash Gordon, but nobody called. Thanks for the compliment!
Flash also suffers regular bouts of certain types of James T. Kirkitis, and often loses his shirt before a battle.
See, this is the one and only thing that the new series seems to be doing right. If Eric Johnson ever gets touchy about providing the shirtless eye-candy factor, the show's lone redeeming feature will be gone.
Ming the Vaguely Testy is the biggest travesty of the show, I think. If they had a charismatic actor going over the top in the role, like Richard Roxburgh's Dracula in Van Helsing, it might make up for many of the show's other failings and wring some entertainment value out of the concept. Unfortunately, John Ralston seems to be emulating Gary Cole's character from Office Space instead...
I said, "Flash also suffers regular bouts of certain types of James T. Kirkitis, and often loses his shirt before a battle."
Matt said: "See, this is the one and only thing that the new series seems to be doing right. If Eric Johnson ever gets touchy about providing the shirtless eye-candy factor, the show's lone redeeming feature will be gone.".
Just in case I wasn't clear, I was speaking of the original Flash Gordon, the one drawn by Alex Raymond in those glorious Sunday Comics of long ago. I've only seen two episodes of the TV series, and so far everyone has kept their shirts on. So, are you saying the series is right that Flash doesn't take off his shirt or they're right that he does (but just not in the two episodes I saw)?
Rick
P.S. I saw both episodes on tape (I don't have cable and have no plans to get cable). I believe the first was the series' second episode, while the second was the one that aired last week. I'm not sold on the show, but I like the idea of opening dimensional gateways to travel to and from Mongo than the idea of Mongo entering into (or near) Earth's orbit. Less ecologically damaging the first way.
I really wanted to like Flash Gordon, mainly 'cause the first commercial I saw had the theme from the 1980's film playing. Of course, this music is only used in promos for the show, NOT the show itself! Argh!
None of the episodes were all that great, but I wanted to give the show a chance, but the Mongo bugs episode was painful to watch, then the most recent one with the shapechanger did it for me.
When they saw the footage of Flash's dad come through the rift, and Flash was all excited, I gave up. I mean, Dad was gone for 13 years, yet hadn't changed a bit?! C'mon, Flash, I know you miss him, but that's impossible!
Maybe, if the previews hadn't talked about a person who could change form, maybe I'd have watched the whole episode. But I just couldn't do it.
Really, the best part was the neurotic Dr. Zarkov-he was the only character I cared for.
So I'll change the VCR so it'll only record Doctor Who on Fridays...until BSG returns, anyway.
Dave
Dave said, "When they saw the footage of Flash's dad come through the rift, and Flash was all excited, I gave up. I mean, Dad was gone for 13 years, yet hadn't changed a bit?!"
Like I said, I've only seen two episodes, but the recap at the start of the former of those episodes showed us Dr. Gordon for a moment, as he went through a rift. He looked younger than the "Dr. Gordon" who appeared last Friday. I seem to recall he had sandy brown hair rather than the grayish seen in last Friday's episode.
By the way does anyone know who played Dr. Gordon in the pilot episode? I don't see a listing in IMDB, but in that brief glimpse in the recap, the actor looked familiar.
Rick