PeterDavid.net

Peter was one of the only two really safe characters on the show (the other being Hiro) because of the "Shatterfist Principle."

Now that Peter has his scar, all he has to do is meet up with Hiro once, and then he's fair game to die.

Can you say "squashed like a bug"? Hey, Peter, remember what you did to that other guy before? Well, do it again. Only don't hold back this time.

Although it would also be funny (if admittedly unlikely) to have the invisible man turn out tohave changed his mind and started shadowing Peter again such that he arrives just in time to, er, blindisde Sylar (no pun intended, honest.)

>and Doc Doom is already wearing a miniskirt ...

But not nearly as well as the new character (lust, drool...). Question for today - is she a genuine metamorph, or 'merely' an illusionist?

That brings up an interesting question: Is the future still the same?
Now that Peter has the healing ability, how exactly would he get a scar? If he has no scar, then the Peter the "future" Hiro knew, no longer exist.

Very much in agreement about that BSG episode, and I was surprised at how little her "death" impacted me.

FYI, Peter, in case you hadn't heard... you were namechecked by George Takei on yesterday morning's Howard Stern show, in the context of "The Captain's Daughter".

George also dropped a Heroes semi-spoiler about what his character may be doing in future episodes, and it got me excited to say the least.

Well, Claire's healing ability works EXCEPT... when it involves her brain. The one time she didn't heal, she had a huge splinter in her head and it didn't start working until that was removed.

So, Peter could die if his brain were removed and maybe that's why he scars...since his brain is being affected.

Or maybe I'm BSing. :)

I owe Sylar a little if that was Peter's annoying "emo curl" that hit the floor.

Mama Petrelli has real purpose! Yay!

Linderman is a totally awesome mastermind. Gotta love a guy who stares down a man with a gun and says "Well, now you can't have any of my pot pie."
It's the kind of role McDowell does best.

The StarWolf :
She's an illusionist; not only did she take the form of Simone but she hid the real body (watch closely).

Peter's ability to draw on another person's powers might be unconsciously activated, but it's activated nonetheless. Maybe he chooses to leave the scar intact and not heal it, to remind himself of some lesson he learned when he got it?

Ooh, that brings all sorts of interesting ideas to mind. I'm probably wrong, though. :)

Yeah, I can't quite believe that Starbuck is actually dead either. (C'mon Starbuck? Not likely.)

I would SO love to see him kick Sylar's ass.

DITTO! That guys is one I love to hate. Along with Nathan- but they kinda redeemed him making him an informant and all- which kinda ticks me off. I really did love to hate him too.

Is no one talking about how Ando miraculously appeared to save Hiro? Ando is up to something. He's not who he says he is. He's either a mole working for Papa Nakamura or a mole working against Papa Nakamura.

And I was almost sorry to see Suresh go. Now I'm upset they didn't just kill him. But at least he's starting to become cool.

Someone on Livejournal pointed out similarities to classic BSG with regards to The Five and Starbuck and Apollo having special powers. Apparently there's an episode where Starbuck meets five people in robes and afterwards knows the way to Earth. I'm not a fan of the classic series so I know nothing about it, personally.

Hey, Brad! What was the semi-spoiler?

Oh and with BSG:

At least I got to say:

"O My God! You Killed Starbuck! You Bastards!"

That was kinda fun.

BSG: If Starbuck really is dead then I'm annoyed, not because of death, it happens (just ask every actually enjoyable character who is no longer on Lost), but because of how pathetic that death was. They pulled a Star Trek: Next Gen. and DS9 where a main character (Yar and Dax)is off the show and they kill her in a sudden and hopeless situation, a reverse Deus Ex Machina. They don't go out in a blaze of glory, even Kat got that, they are merely smeared from existence by the finger of the all powerful third person omniscient. It's weak writing, especially considering that they still didn't explain the whirly pool rainbow meaning. Great storm effect though.

Heros: Keeps getting better but proves once again that Mohinder would make a perfect Bond villain. Let's tie up the guy who could ruin all our plans and TALK to him. Then let him have 20 different ways to escape and then give him all the time in the world to recover. "Do you expect me to talk ?" "No Mr. Sylar, I expect you to die." Just sad. You can get spinal fluid from a dead guy. Damn plot driven drivel.

Re Heroes:

Perhaps Peter chooses to keep the scar for some reason. Maybe because he remembers that "Future Hiro" mentioned it; maybe as a reminder to go into Lamont Cranston mode when entering a darkened apartment.

As to Mr. Bennett, it looks like he was shot in the side, not the gut.

Another hiatus? For seven weeks? Are they nuts? We no longer live in a world where network TV didn't have competition from cable, Internet, DVDs, videotapes and satellite programming. How many people will find something else to occupy their time during those seven weeks and not return?

In point of fact, a co-worker of mine didn't return to Heroes after the hiatus between November and January. Instead, she started watching 24 and has become caught up in that show.

(O.K., that decision was, in part, enforced by others in her home, but she told me Heroes' long absence made that switch easier.)

Another co-worker offered the theory that this hiatus is taking place so the season will end in May. So what if it doesn't? I recently purchased season two of the original Star Trek on DVD and noted that the last episode of that season, "Assignment: Earth", aired sometime in March. So ending a season before May isn't unheard of.

There are other, more recent examples as well, but I haven't time to list them.

Don't have cable so I didn't see Battlestar Galactica, but a friend recently loaned me the season 1 DVD set, and I enjoyed it a lot. He also has season 2, so I hope to borrow that in the near future.

Rick

Rick - it sucks, and it is arguably defunct - but networks still live by Nielsen ratings and May is the biggest sweeps period of the year. If you have a television show, you're going to have its finale in may so you can do a ratings drive.

I hate it, but that's the way it is right now. Though, it seems to be slowly dying. FINALLY!

Working backwards...

Rick:
Another hiatus? For seven weeks? Are they nuts? We no longer live in a world where network TV didn't have competition from cable, Internet, DVDs, videotapes and satellite programming. How many people will find something else to occupy their time during those seven weeks and not return?

In point of fact, a co-worker of mine didn't return to Heroes after the hiatus between November and January. Instead, she started watching 24 and has become caught up in that show.

Apparently the two hiatuses had been planned from the get-go of the season, so that they was no new episode-rerun-rerun-new episode-new episode-rerun*3 like what Lost went through last season. I think that's more of a momentum killer, personally. "Is Heroes a rerun this week? Yeah, I don't know either, but it has been for the past two weeks. Screw it, let's go to the movies. Wait, it was a new one? Dammit! Well, let's just get the rest of the series on DVD."

As for the 24/Heroes conflict, this would've been a huge source of discord between my fiance and I *if* I hadn't treated myself to a DVR this Christmas. I love both shows, but she loves Heroes way more. Now we're able to watch them both. If you have the means, I highly suggest picking one up.

crane:
They pulled a Star Trek: Next Gen. and DS9 where a main character (Yar and Dax)is off the show and they kill her in a sudden and hopeless situation, a reverse Deus Ex Machina. They don't go out in a blaze of glory, even Kat got that, they are merely smeared from existence by the finger of the all powerful third person omniscient. It's weak writing, especially considering that they still didn't explain the whirly pool rainbow meaning.

I wouldn't necessarily call it weak writing, as people die in senseless, tragic ways every day. In the case of actors leaving shows, we always know "Oh, the actor is leaving the show." so it makes us want the characters death to mean more. People die in non-special ways all the time, and it's hard to achieve that in fiction because we know that there's always someone pulling the strings, and that they made the choice "Hey, I'm going to have that guy get hit by a bus." I think they did it really well on Buffy with her mom's death. No being eaten by a hungry, psycho crocodile, just a natural death. In the cases you cited it wasn't natural, but still, these are folks in high risk professions. How many movies or shows like that does the hero *almost* die because they noticed something just in time. Sometimes, that don't work out to well.

I'd have a real hard time not believing that Starbuck will be be back, either picked up by the Cylon raider (which it seemed like Lee saw at the end there) or if she's one of the final five, which will then leave a final four. And then there'll be a big basketball tournament to see who gets Earth.

Heroes: I love the new partner for HRG. She's super hot. Not just because she's attractive and wearing a short skirt, but she's also got an evil confidence that I just love. She's much more of a "femme fatale" than a lot of the comic women we see with a gun and a square foot of cleavage.

One other thought:

It's been said that no "villain" casts himself/herself as the villain. With that in mind, by what rationale does Sylar believe himself to be in the right, that his actions are both appropriate and necessary? I know he talks about about having a purpose in life, and about "fixing" people who are broken; but what's his impetus for taking on the powers of those he kills? Does he believe all the powers should reside in him (because no one else can be trusted with them), and that he will then be able to make the world a better place?

Or should we consider him a semi-tragic character, unable to stop himself? I believe he has referred to a hunger, or words to that effect, which drives him.

If the latter's the case, then maybe Sylar was begging for his life when talking with Mohinder. Or that part of him that knew he was in the wrong.

Rick

P.S. Speaker, true May is a big sweeps month, but as I said some shows have ended their seasons before May, and some much more recently than Star Trek. But maybe those shows were either doing so well or so poorly that the may sweeps wouldn't have made any impact.

Great "Heroes" episode. It was great to see Nathan and Niki acting more heroic (or trying to, in Nathan's case). And Mr. Bennet almost completing the transition to full heroic status.

I must have shouted a thousand of times for Mohinder to just kill the slimeball and be done with it, but I also knew Sylar wouldn't die so early in the season. But yeah, it was funny to see the hero/villain dynamic inverted for once, with the good guy rambling and the bad guy escaping.

Mr. Linderman's intro: bizarre, in a good sort of way. I was expecting to see him in some huge, ominous, dark office, never expected to meet him in a kitchen.

Peter lost the famous bangs. Lots and lots of Heroes female fans will not like that development one bit.

D.L. and Micah are the most under-utilized characters in the show. They have such cool powers, but since Episode 12 they have barely appeared. But I bet D. L. will come to Niki's rescue now, or something (the picture she left for him to find must have some purpose).

They want to make us believe that Isaac is so dead, so dead, that I wouldn't be surprised if he somehow lives.

The only two things I disliked about the Episode? The new superhuman, the illusion girl, she was so despicable and arrogant that I wanted to kill her every time she appeared. But maybe that was intentional, since she is a villain and all.

Ando's return also was a bit too much to swallow. Poor, hapless Ando is James Bond now? But I know, I know, it's heartwarming to see him acting the hero for once. Still, I'd like a better explanation for how he snuck into the casino.

I was kind of disappointed in the kitchen scene with Linderman. If Joss Whedon were writing it I think Nathan would have just shot like 5 times him leaving us the viewer (and Whedon's writing staff) to think: "Now what the hell do we do?"

(And probably a member of the kitchen staff screaming "Oh my God, You killed Linderman! You Bastard!)

I'm just getting sick of Nathan acting predicably. I swear, if Stalin came back from the grave and offered this guy help for his campaign he would at least sit him down for coffee. Just once I'd like him to act like there is certain things he won't do to get elected.

Every time I see him and Hiro together I get encouraged though.

Speaking of predictable, what do you want to bet that once Peter thinks he has Sylar right where he wants him, Sylar will turn the tables on him and/or escape. It seems to be a continuing theme on the show.

To paraphrase Bill Cosby's Brown Hornet, "Thanks to Sylar's superpowers he naturally escapes--UNHARMED!"

--Captain Naraht

You know, I still can’t quite believe it in terms of the BSG episode. I was stunned to put it mildly. I hadn’t done a great deal of peeking around the Internet prior to the episode and have to admit to being caught totally off guard.

That being said, I actually thought it retrospect it was an excellent episode. I caught the rerun later on that evening to see if I had somehow missed something but, I hadn’t.

See, the reason I thought it was a great episode was because Kara died and everything about this season pointed to something like this happening.

She wasn’t written as self-destructive?

I keep flashing back to the spot earlier in the season where we see her and Lee finally consummating their relationship only to have Lee wake up, find her gone, walk into camp and find her married. There’s sure to be a lot of fallout over the next (last) three episodes of the season.

Is Kara one of the remaining five?

I really wouldn’t bet on it - she has mom, remember? None of the Cylons/human models so far can attest to having any kind of family.

Would I like to see them bring her back?

No, not really.

The great thing about the characters death which I think has been missed so far in the discussion is just how damn senseless it was.

BSG is always talked about in terms of using SciFi as a framework to speak about the issues of the day. What could more appropriate than having a character die a senseless death.

As sad as it as, as tragic as it is, and no matter how much we as the audience might want Starbuck to go out in some kind of blaze of glory or heroic sacrifice the truth is you have a character who has been through the mill over the last two years and seen a lot of people die, been in a lot of combat and ultimately it takes its toll.

Kara Thrace needed something, anything to give her hope and she had lost it all, her words throughout the episode evidence that and her scene with Lee talking about being back where they started sums it up. She was a victim of battle fatigue, is it really so surprising when you think about it?

Yeah, she had her hand on the eject lever. Yeah, there was a Cylon ship that no one else seemed to see throughout the episode floating around out there. Could she have ejected and been picked up by the Cylons (perhaps Leobin?). I guess.

I would hope they don’t do that though because it would lessen the impact of what is a very powerful episode and one, which will force all the BSG characters down new paths because of it.

Heroes?

Count me among those who are a big fan of Ando. He is the Sancho Panza to Hiro’s Don Quixote. Hiro is a much better character with Ando to play off of.

Is there anyone else who gets the feeling Nathan Petrelli could be the big villain of the piece. The corrupted Superman? A hero with the best of intentions but who loses his way - the absent father, the failed husband, the disappointing son? Given his decision not to off Linderman could he in fact become Linderman’s biggest weapon down the road?

I was really excited when Mohinder had nailed Sylar and terribly disappointed when the tables were turned. Why Sylar allowed him to take the spinal fluid is beyond me unless he was still under the influence of the IV.

Can we just kill off Niki’s character already? How high does her body count have to get before she gets it? Is her number of kills bigger than Sylar’s? What does it take to just say she is a villain?

Oh and in regard to both shows (and this goes for LOST too), just do a full season without breaks! This stopping and starting thing going on in TV programming is just maddening.

"Or should we consider him a semi-tragic character, unable to stop himself? I believe he has referred to a hunger, or words to that effect, which drives him."

Sylar is crazy. I don't think he has some neat rational explanation for why he is supposedly justified in what he does. He was just an insignificant guy that wanted so very much to be special, and now acquiring new powers has become an addiction and a thrill he can't resist.

"I was really excited when Mohinder had nailed Sylar and terribly disappointed when the tables were turned. Why Sylar allowed him to take the spinal fluid is beyond me unless he was still under the influence of the IV."

I probably have to watch it again, but Mohinder needed the spinal fluid to do something to further his research, right? And Sylar WANTS Mohinder to complete the research so he'll have access to a bigger list of supers to prey upon? At least that was the idea I got.

"Can we just kill off Niki’s character already? How high does her body count have to get before she gets it? Is her number of kills bigger than Sylar’s? What does it take to just say she is a villain?"

At least to me, what makes her *not* a villain is that it's only her alternate personality that kills, not Niki herself. Niki always tries to do the right thing.

Heroes was another great episode, yes. And the agents were indeed named Quesada and Alonso. I chuckled when they appeared, and cheered when they died. Not that I wish their namesakes harm, but it was just plain hilarious. Peter, I totally get your desire to see 'you' up there and die, I've long wanted to see my own name in a comic. That would make me grin endlessly.

Ugh, that sounds like me begging for a namedrop somewhere. =P

"You have to love a series with a clear idea of what it's doing and a confident narrative thread." Indeed I do, and that's why I loved Babylon 5, and a few other shows before and since. B5 truly spoiled me for television programming. Even Prison Break, as corny as it can be, still has that sense of "Yes, we have a plan" and so I sit back and enjoy the ride.

Jason

"I really wouldn’t bet on it - she has mom, remember? None of the Cylons/human models so far can attest to having any kind of family."

Hera.

First, we've no clear idea how the human Cylons are actually first created/born/developed. Second, we've no reason to assume that Kara's mother was her birth mother.

PAD

Heroes:

The "big" cliffhanger for me wasn't the Sylar/Peter ending. AFter all, Peter will just absorb Sylar's T.K. and escape (I'm actually looking forward to a fight between two "heroes" with multiple powers each) No, for me the big cliffhanger is between HRG and the Organization. That's where things have finally come to a head.

Hey Pete....

Nothing is forever....They killed Obi Wan and brought him back (sort of) : they brought Spock back from certain doom, why cant they do it with Kara Thrace? She doesn't have to be a Cylon to do this... Remember, they killed Apollo in the original series, and he was brought back by the "City of Lights"... ( loved the cool white uniforms!)

Short term shock value could be hurt by long term anger.

That's the same way I felt about Buffy. Joss Whedon went to that well a few times too often, and always seemed to be doing it to his female characters. The cumulative effect brought the show down. I hope Ron Moore isn't making the same mistake.

Disclaimer: I didn't like this week's BSG before I even saw it, knowing that Starbuck's death was coming.

But I really really didn't like it after listening to Ron Moore's podcast describing the process of how this came to be.

I may be blinded by my going-in dislike of the while thing, but this is what I got from the podcast:

1) Writers start writing the annual 'frak with Starbuck' episode. (Why is this the only thing they can write for her when she is 'showcased'?)

2) Writers write the basic plot as we got it aired, only Starbuck is not slated to die. She backs away from the abyss. Writers struggle with the unsatisfying ending this produces. (Why isn't choosing to live an unsatisfying ending?)

3) Ron Moore weighs in to discussions amongst the writers with the opinion that for this story to work, the ending would have to be that Starbuck dies. After initial scoffing from writers, Moore and David Eick decide this 'audacious' plot twist is indeed the way to go, and sells it to the writers and the network. History plays out as we got to see.

That, to me, is bunk. They basically over the 3 seasons wrote the character into such a hole that when they decide to push her to the edge one more time, they can't find any way out of their own plot-history except to just write her out.

The only amusing thing was the podcast recap that the ship model Adama trashes at the end was actually a museum piece costing 6 figures that the show was renting. Destroying it was not in the script -- Olmos did it spur of the moment.

The only fault I found with Heros was that watching the opening credits, as soon as I saw Malcom McDowell's name I knew who was playing Linderman - why keep up the big teaser secret to blow it 40 minutes before what would have been a really cool reveal?

And as to Ando showing up at the last minute - I hate to suggest this & someone might beat me up for doing so - but with this show it seems possible that he too may now be one of Linderman's agents.

hell, Mama Petrelli knows the Hatian and Papa Nakumura turned out to be one of HRG's bosses - anyone could be in cahoots with anyone!

I didn't interpret Starbuck's fear as being fear of death, necessarily, although it certainly could have been that.

I thought perhaps she was no longer afraid of facing her past, remembering her mother, facing this destiny everyone has been telling her about, etc. I agree with you that she's a self-destructive character, but I didn't think she was interpreting her own actions as suicide. And I think they may yet turn out not to be that.

Although it looks as though several strong female characters are gone, several remain: Roslin, Dee, Six, Sharon. Possibly Seelix will step up to be a strong character.

Since Lawless had a limited contract, that was going to happen no matter what. Not sure what the decision to kill Kat was about, but boy, was I glad to see that character go.

Starbuck... the verdict is still out....

Just once I'd like [Nathan] to act like there is certain things he won't do to get elected.

i think his hesitation in killing Linderman had more to do with the possibility that Lindy actually has the answers he professes to have, re: the powers, than his desire to get elected.

Peter...one of the main characters is named for you. What more do you want?:)

I think we're seeing the beginning of the Dark Ando saga.

re Nathan. You don't cast Adrian Pasdar to be good. You cast him to become corrupted with power!

I was wondering while watching if Mohinder filled the syringe up to 11.

I don't know about anyone else, but I found it interesting that Hiro and Ando didn't teleport until after Ando closed his eyes... hmmmmm...

The only thing stopping me from thinking Ando is the one with power (or a focusing power?) is the fact that Hiro first utilized his powers without Ando knowing (the office clock, the first NYC trip). After seeing Hiro's dad as a "company man" I briefly wondered if Hiro really had any powers at all (otherwise wouldn't Papa have turned him in?)

Anyway, now that we sort of have a name for HRG's organization -- "the company," I know most people would say "ahh, the CIA." I think it's just a writerly riff... Ordinary men finding themselves "in the company of heroes."

Anyone else get the feeling that Heroes is kinda like the "Wild Cards" series minus the Jokers and minus the worldwide knowledge of their existance?

"And as to Ando showing up at the last minute - I hate to suggest this & someone might beat me up for doing so - but with this show it seems possible that he too may now be one of Linderman's agents."

You know, particularly if Linderman and Hiro's dad are in cahoots, taht actually makes sense. Be a helluva reveal, wouldn't it.

PAD

Starbuck dying didn't bother me that much, but not because it was a good plot twist. I was just glad something finally woke me up after the slowest, most pointless episode of the show I've seen.

When Kara started having visions, I thought she was crazy. That made me not care, because crazy ramblings are just crazy ramblings, they're all interchangeable without deeper meaning. It got better once they got to her mother because that added some meaning to things.

Then they got into the mysticism with the cylon in her head. Either she was really crazy or that was magic. I don't like when the show relies on unexplainable magic. It doesn't seem to actually mean anything or add up to anything. I don't want to say it's lazy writing, but it doesn't engage me.

Come on, mysticism has been a *huge* part of this show since (at least) the episode where they had to secure the Cylon tyllium mine. First was Laura's vision of the snakes crawling around on her podium during the press conference, then the High Priestess of Vague Mysticism (tm Strega, of TWoP) explains about the Scrolls of Pythia, and how they describe the "dying leader" having a vision of "serpents, numbering ten and two" (and then Starbuck comes up with the plan to sneak a small attack force past the Cylons by decoying them away with the RTFF, then dumping twelve Vipers ["serpents, numbering ten and two"] out of a freighter's cargo hold), continuing through the return to Kobol (and its "price in blood", as they lose Elosha, Socinus, and Crashdown), on up through at least Three's vision of "the space between life and death."

And when Three saw what was there, she apologized. "I'm sorry - I didn't know..." Maybe she didn't see the famed Final Five Cylons. Maybe what she saw was Kara's Special Destiny, or the Lords of Kobol themselves, or just the colossal arrogance of assuming they must be the chosen tools of God just because they've got a huge hate on for their old masters...

I also have to say that I don't think Kara died in that explosion. First off, I really don't think all this ink is going to be spilled about "the Special Destiny" when all it involves is dying pointlessly. Second, what she'd made peace with wasn't dying - she'd been looking forward to that for a long time - it was the fulfillment of whatever this "destiny" was. She'd held back when it presented itself before, because she was afraid of it. Afraid not to be "the steely-eyed Viper jock" any more, because she had no idea what she could possibly be beyond that.

(Blame that one on her mother, who thought the only way to prepare her daughter for Specialness was by trying to turn the poor girl into a cold-hearted tin-plated warrior bitch just like good ol' Mom. She apparently was one of those who thought love was a weakness, which is probably why she wasn't married to Mr. Concert Pianist Thrace any more.)

And third, this time around, the Heavy Raider wasn't illusory. When Apollo managed to get a visual on Starbuck, the Heavy Raider was flying just above and port. If he'd had eyes for anything besides the impending death of his wingleader/best friend/sometime lover, he would have seen it himself. And the Heavy Raider is the model that carries passengers.

So, I see two plausible ways Starbuck can be back. One is that she returns as a sort of angel, a messenger from the Lords of Kobol to the Fleet (which makes the presentation of the winged Aurora icon make some sort of sense). The other is that she ejected at the last minute, was captured by a Leoben on the Raider, and will have to escape (probably thanks to Leoben letting his guard down around her - he's done it at least six times before) and steal a Raider - a process she's already figured out, and this time there's no bullet hole to patch!

“Hera.

First, we've no clear idea how the human Cylons are actually first created/born/developed. Second, we've no reason to assume that Kara's mother was her birth mother.—PAD”

I had to stop for a second and think who Hera was.

Hera isn’t one of the 12 models though.

Also, Hera may be the equivalent of a mule for all we know. Thing is, the Cylons thought Hera’s birth was as much of an event as the humans did. The fact they were so overwhelmed by a human/cylon hybrid birth speaks to the fact it hadn’t happened before.

As I pondered it a bit more, it seems this could go one of two ways.

You bring Starbuck back having after she has been captured and held by the Cylons who were in that ship which was not her imagination at all but a real ship using the storm as cover to keep track of the fleet (which is what I think is more likely although, I am hoping they don’t bring the character back at all).

If she were to turn out to be a Cylon and again, I think this is highly doubtful, remembering all the speculation about Baltar being a Cylon earlier in the season.

Let’s say for arguments sake that the Cylons did too good a job with the first five models. In attempting to construct a more human-looking Cylon in an attempt to mimic their creators, the Cylons were too successful in the original five identified more as human beings than they did as Cylons.

If this is the case, it would go a long way to the plot point of current Cylon society not discussing the original five because they are viewed as both failures and outcasts.

In that instance you could bring Starbuck back as one of the original five.

I have a sense there may be something of that (more about the first five models) in the last three episodes of the season.

Six Feet Under did a great job in displaying the randomness surrounding death – Starbuck dying the way she did says a lot more about a character finally succumbing to a lifetime of bad choices and giving up.

Seeing enemies when they aren’t any there? Feeling a certain amount of futility after being a prisoner for several months and still not really recovering from it? You can’t downplay the kind of wringer they’ve put the character through over the last three years.

Everything in that last episode said a lot about the character being tired, it’s all there you just have to go back and look at it again. It just seems to be the classic signs of battle fatigue, which could speak a lot about what is going on for a generation of soldiers right now.

Also, getting back to the Hera point. Just what were the Cylons doing on Caprica then in that clinic where Starbuck was held? Were they trying to breed their own human/cylon hybrids? You get a sense the humanoid models are constructed without a womb per se. The resurrection ship doesn’t appear to have been stocked with humans birthing Cylons.

Re: Peter vs. Sylar:

What Peter SHOULD do is telekinetically twist Sylar's head about 180 degrees around before the killer even realizes he's in danger.
I don't think he knows Pete has the same telekinetic powers he possesses, so I doubt he'd be able to defend against a sudden, unexpectedly lethal attack.

What will more likely happen is that Peter will just "push" him flying back across the room, and quickly turn invisible.

And that won't do him a lot of good, since Sylar recently stole the one power (super-hearing), that renders invisibility pretty much useless.

Whatever the outcome, it's going to be a long wait until April 23.

Re: BSG and Starbuck's "death"

I really think there's something much bigger coming with this. Remember - Starbuck's "destiny" has been referenced since season one (I think, during her interogation of Leoben). It was absolutely played up during this episode, but we never hear what that destiny is. And the "Leoben who isn't really Leoben" -- Yet another mystery.

Although I have to agree with PAD - they've never really played her as afraid of death, just reckless and a fighter.

While I don't think the character will be back as we know her, I do think that something is brewing. Being someone who loves a surprise, I think I'll stop trying to figure it out and just enjoy the ride. :-)

Bill, regarding the BSG Podcast. Moore also said that although the idea to kill Starbuck instead of her coming back from the Abyss one more time just came up in the writer's room, her death helped support their mysteriou long-range plans for the show. I don't know if that's just BS or or what but he did say that.

"The only amusing thing was the podcast recap that the ship model Adama trashes at the end was actually a museum piece costing 6 figures that the show was renting. Destroying it was not in the script -- Olmos did it spur of the moment."

Yeah, that's great story. Moore said that the whole cast was really broken up about losing Starbuck and Olmos was in the moment and decided that Adama would destroy his ship. Apparently, he had no idea how valuable it was. The thing was insured, thank God, but I kinda doubt whoever rented them the thing is going to let them have anything like that again. Moore said the production guys went pale when he did it. If they'd known he was going to do that they'd have made a mock-up for him to destroy...

Rene (which I presume is pronounced "Reeeeeeen") said this:

"At least to me, what makes her *not* a villain is that it's only her alternate personality that kills, not Niki herself. Niki always tries to do the right thing."

Why are you assuming that because they're "alternate personalities" that one is guilty and the other isn't? They are the same person in the same body, just with active/passive elements partitioned off. Like a separate partition on your hard drive. It's still on the same physical drive; it's only delusional Windows that thinks it's two separate drives.

What's more, neither is really worthy of emulation. Niki is loving, but she's weak. She is unable to control and integrate her other side, and she can't summon the will to stop Jessica from hurting her son and her husband. Jessica is a sociopath and an egotist; her "love" for her son is mostly posessiveness, the way she might love a favorite broach or a cat.

Her split head isn't her fault, since schitzophrenia often comes from childhood abuse. But nobody made her a killer; only she did that. As I've said before, Jessica has to die for her sins, and Niki is the only one who can do it, by committing suicide.

Heroes:

It occurred to me that if Sylar killed Peter and stole his power, he'd no longer have to kill other Heroes to take their powers; he could become more "special" by simply meeting them and he he'd could then call up their powers whenever he wanted. Not that I think that Sylar would stop his murderous rampage even then. He's a crazy serial killer. He's got a real taste for it (no pun intended). He'd find a way to rationalize killing them and taking their brains anyway. Probably something along the lines of them having the same powers making him less special, somehow. The real reason would be he gets the same massive gratification that any serial killer gets from repeating his grusome ritual. He can't stop. Nothing can compare with the high he gets from it.

Regarding Heroes, I find it absolutely amazing that they were able to fit so many principal and supporting characters into an episode and still make it so seamless.

I will be very interested to see how the Peter/Sylar battle goes down in April, but personally I think it would be a lot of fun to see Peter using his newfound invisibility and Sylar calling on his super-hearing. On the face of it, we all know that Peter is the stronger, because he will be able to absorb all of Sylar's powers, plus Claire's regenerative abilities, plus Claude's invisibility, plus a few others I'm sure I'm missing. The question is, can he access all of those powers as quickly as Sylar? But since Peter came out of their last encounter a bit worse for wear, something tells me that Sylar is headed for one heavy-duty smackdown.

And the pork pie lines were my favorite. Delivered beautifully by an actor who makes it look easy.

"Moore also said that although the idea to kill Starbuck instead of her coming back from the Abyss one more time just came up in the writer's room, her death helped support their mysteriou long-range plans for the show. I don't know if that's just BS or or what but he did say that."

I guess my problem is I don't have a ton of faith that killing Starbuck is going to be so integral to some master plan, because Ron Moore too often keeping saying that there barely is a master plan.

I personally don't care if there's a prearranged plan to the scale of Babylon 5, or if there is absolutely no plan. But the whole 'demise of Starbuck' still comes off as something for shock value rather than something planned out to fit into an overall story.

I haven't watched the latest BSG yet. Normally I wouldn't read a thread about a T.V. show I hadn't yet seen. But I figured since it wasn't the season finale, there wouldn't be anything incredibly shocking in the episode. So, y'know, I thought, "Who cares about a few spoilers?"

...

KARA FREAKIN' THRACE IS DEAD???????????????

Yikes.

From now on I will heed the prominent spoiler warnings.

I'm sorry that the episode got spoiled for you, Bill. But seriously, with a thread title like that, didn't you figure there was something momentous happenning in the episode?

"Her split head isn't her fault, since schitzophrenia often comes from childhood abuse. But nobody made her a killer; only she did that. As I've said before, Jessica has to die for her sins, and Niki is the only one who can do it, by committing suicide."

What you say makes sense, Thomas. In the beginning, "Jessica" only killed people who deserved it, real scumbags, but now she has killed two FBI agents, and that psychiatrist too.

But what I can say? I like Niki and don't want to see her go. She is no role model, but they can't all be role models. If this were real life and she were being judged, then I'd agree she has to pay for her crimes. But seeing that this is fiction...

PS: I'm Brazilian, and we pronounce my name... hmmmm... Rehneh? I suppose, I'm not too good at figuring out the phonetics of it in English.

"Anyone else get the feeling that Heroes is kinda like the "Wild Cards" series minus the Jokers and minus the worldwide knowledge of their existance?"

I agree. I am a great fan of "Wild Cards", by the way. "Heroes" and "Wild Cards" are in the same subgenre of "real people, in the real world, with powers".

"Come on, mysticism has been a *huge* part of this show"

Yes, it is. It's just the part I find least satisfying. So when most of the action in an episode is being explained by it, that doesn't work well for me. I'd rather see Adama beat the crap out of the Chief again. That was awesome.

Posted by: David Hunt at March 6, 2007 06:13 PM

I'm sorry that the episode got spoiled for you, Bill.

Hey, it's my fault. The spoiler warnings was prominent and very clear.
Posted by: David Hunt at March 6, 2007 06:13 PM

But seriously, with a thread title like that, didn't you figure there was something momentous happenning in the episode?

I'm sorry, you must've mistaken me for someone with an actual brain.

Okay, I freely admit I don't get the reference. What's the "Shatterfist Principle"?

Bill, I interpret an amount of humor into your "brain" remark. I hope that I'm correct and that I wasn't rubbing solt into the wound.

Alex, based on context I'd say that it's closely related to what John Byrne calls the Superboy effect. Whenever Superboy (the Silver Age Supeman-when-he-was-a-boy) was placed in some sort of life-threatening situation, you know that he going to come out of it entirely unscathed because he has to grow up to be Superman. I'm not familiar with the character of Shatterfist, in context I'd say that someone from the from the future told confirmed that he was alive in that futre. So if you believe that the future is unalterable, then Shatterfist HAS to survive to see that future.

WRT Heroes, I personally don't believe that the future is entirely unalterable, because I simply don't believe that NBC is going to nuke New York. The whole point of Future-Hiro meeting Peter in the subway was that he was trying to change the course of events (his past, our future). Underr that theory, Peter is not ultimately safe, because the changed course of events might end with him dead, but Claire alive.

What will more likely happen is that Peter will just "push" him flying back across the room, and quickly turn invisible.

And that won't do him a lot of good, since Sylar recently stole the one power (super-hearing), that renders invisibility pretty much useless.

Could do him reasonable good. Of the five senses hearing beats only smell for pinpointing somethings location. The one power that trumps invisibility would be super-sight. Being able to see into the infra-red range.

Personally, I'd blast Sylar back, turn invisible and fly up next to Mohinder. That way he can't see me and I'd be someplace he probably wouldn't think to look. Of course, I've had time to think about it and am not face to face with somebody who's slicing my brain....

>turn invisible and fly up next to Mohinder

I don't believe that he could. It appears he can only use one power at a time. Remember that he used TK in the studio, then turned invisible. He can't seem to do both at once.

As for Ando, it would be fun, but I doubt it. His actions have been all over the map. He just hasn't been behaving in the way a trusted agent would. On-again-off-again being pro mission, being against, being pro ... and then ignoring Hiro to wander off with the woman ... No, doesn't make sense that he'd be under orders from Hiro's dad or Linderman.

StarWolf, I don't know if it's been established whether or not Peter can use more than power at once. You may well be right, a la Ultra Boy in the Legion of Super-Heroes, but my take was that he's still dealing with the use of any powers, let alone multiple uses. I guess we'll know who's right soon enough.

Heroes friggin' rocks!!! (how fanboy was that?!)
They keep saying the cast is going to be somewhat if not completely different next season - I hope we get to keep some of the character. Hiro&Ando, Claire, HRG, all the Petrelli's (though, I guess Claire falls under that now...), everyone else I can do without f necessary.

And although I keep watching BSG when I can, I so don't care anymore. I wasn't spoiled for this episode, and my reaction was "Wow. They killed Starbuck. Huh. Oh well."
I have missed a few eps of BSG this season, and I haven't the slightest urge to try to watch them. I'll still watch for now.

RE: Battlestar Galactica
For those caught up in the moment that might not have been paying closer attention during the last moments of Kara's "death", the final exterior shot before Starbuck's Viper blew up DID show THREE SHIPS! Two Colonial and one unknown, but presumably Cylon.

StarWolf -

what I was supposing RE - Ando was that he had come under Linderman's influence sometime after he and Hiro had parted ways, not that he had been an "agent" all along.

with everthing Linderman knew about Petrelli, he seems the type who could dig up dirt/blackmail/bribe material on anyone - even Hiro's best bud.

It's all guesswork for the next 7 weeks or so anyway. And, outside of just how cool "I called it" bragging rights would be I hope I'm wrong!

Just for the record, schizophrenia and multiple personality disorder are two different conditions. Niki/Jessica has/have the latter.

Rick

What you say makes sense, Thomas. In the beginning, "Jessica" only killed people who deserved it, real scumbags, but now she has killed two FBI agents, and that psychiatrist too.

She didn't kill the psychiatrist. The psychiatrist was tasered a bunch of times, but apparently had enough life in her to say "ow."

Okay - i haven't been watching BSG since i just now got cable (i had cable when the mini-series aired, but we moved...)

I just signed up with Blockbuster Online, so i'm gonna watch all the so-far-available DVDs.

But, ya know, i remember watching the very first episode of Hill Street Blues, watching Hill and Renko bickering like long-term partners do, walking through a door to see if there was a payphone in the building...

And BOOM BOOM - down they go.

Talk about senesless deaths? Someone steals your patrol car while you're inside somewhere and when you look for a phone you walk into a crack house?

{And they were supposed to die and stay dead - but someone realised that without them, there weren't really any uniformed officers in the featured cast, and on a show called Hill Street Blues, there prolly ought be a few.}

Anyway, the "everyone's ass is up for grabs" feeling that that engendered lasted quite a good pertion of the show's run, always tending to put one just a bit on the edge of one's metaphorical seat every time someone walked into a dangerous situation, even if they were high-billed.

PAD: I loved your crack: First of all, blondes named Kara have a habit of coming back. Trust me on that.

Speaking from personal - possibly painful - experience, are we?

Okay, I watched BSG last night. I don't feel as though it were completely ruined for me, because even though I knew Kara would die there was still some suspense involved in watching how they got from "A" to "B."

Now that I've seen it, though, I must admit I'm underwhelmed. And it has nothing to do with having spoiled the ending for myself.

Kara afraid of death? Not hardly. If anything, she was afraid to truly live. Always gambling, drinking, fighting, flying... but she couldn't marry Lee, the man she loved. She couldn't cope with her personal demons.

SPOILER WARNING -- IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN "STAR TREK: NEMESIS" YOU MAY NOT WANT TO READ FURTHER...

Kara's supposed death reminds me a bit of Data's death in ST: Nemesis. Why? In both cases the characters were mishandled, resulting in a death scene that lacked the intended impact. In the latest BSG they attempted to tie up the loose threads of her character only to come to a spurious conclusion that was dissatisfying. In ST: Nemesis, all of the progress Data had made with his emotion chip was ignored, reducing the character to who he had been at the very beginning of the ST: TNG series. Having done nothing with his character that was interesting or moving, they managed to turn what should have been a moving death scene into a tremendous dud.

Of course, I always felt death in the ST mythos was handled ineffectively because emotional realism was by design never the strong suit of the franchise. Look at the reaction to everyone on the bridge of the Galactica when Kara supposedly died. Look at Adama crying and smashing his model ship in the final scene. That's how death affects people.

Except that Kara's not dead. She's coming back. I'm sure of it.

On Heroes: Why does everyone assume Niki/Jessica has a multipple personality syndrome? Niki keeps telling people Jessica is real. maybe she's right.
The situation reminds me a lot of the twins in John Bytrne's Next Men where one hero has his twin sister living inside his head. The sister died during delivery and used her possession power to live inside her brother's head until she learned to jump ship to other bodies.
I think we'll see that happening to Jessica/NIki.
Remember how she used her superstrength in prison to break the nightstick without Jessica in control?

Jessica is a separate entity living in Niki's head, whose death triggered her innate possession abilities. Niki is the one with superstrength.

Linderman is cast perfecty and i still believe Linderman has a power or someone with the power to affect chance and coincidence. I've thought this for quite a while when the first coincidences popped up but it was enforced by something Linderman mentioned this episode:" .. and in two years through a series of fluke incidents you'll find yourself in the white house, a heartbeat away from the presidency".

Kinda like an powerhungry Layla flapping his butterfly wings to get what he wants.

ON BSG: I didn't believe Starbuck is dead which made the impact a little less. After all the effort to make us believe Starbuck has a special destiny i'm just not buying that suicide was her destiny, especially not since everything pointed to a prophetic ability, an intuitive understanding of the trail to earth. Suicide had nothing to do with it and i don't believe she leaped into the maelstrom to die. But death may play a part in her final destiny and the Aurora figurine was a clue i think. I think it is her destiny that scared her, she just wants to booze up, sleep around, have fun, shoot cylons and there she has this massive destiny looming over her that quite possibly makes her responsible for the survival of the human race. Frak destiny has always been Starbuck's problem more so than a fear of death i think. She believes deep down but won't let herself have faith enough. Except this time she went with faith all the way.

I hope Kara and us won't be disappointed about what she finds between life and death because oblivion seems a waste for one of the greatest characters on the show.

We're already assuming the final 5 need cylon bodies to incarnate in? My guess is the final 5 can incarnate in any body they choose and that when they do they retain only subconcious knowledge of their previous existence, enough to trigger dreams, visions, accurate hunches and the like to follow a trail they laid out for mankind thousands of years ago.

Posted by: David Hunt at March 6, 2007 07:15 PM

Bill, I interpret an amount of humor into your "brain" remark. I hope that I'm correct and that I wasn't rubbing solt into the wound.

Yep, just a joke. I believe myself to be a quite intelligent person. But on a busy day at work I was skimming PAD's blog during a quick break and saw that some of my friends had posted. I thought, aw, what the hell, can't hurt. Then I got a big face full of "Kara's toast."

No wound, no salt, no worries. It's just T.V. after all.

"In the beginning, "Jessica" only killed people who deserved it, real scumbags, but now she has killed two FBI agents, and that psychiatrist too."

Why am I hearing Arnold saying to Jamie Lee Curtis, "But they were all bad!"

OK...had to jump over about the last half of the comments before I head out to work, but...

Heroes - Nothin' much to add. Love this show. As for the scar vs. Peter having Claire's healing ability...to paraphrase the writers who do the weekly Q & A on CBR said, "Hmmm...wonder what could damage Peter enough to overwhelm the healing ability?" My own personal thought on the matter? Peter continually healing while Sylar tries to cut through.

BSG - After watching the episode, a thought occurred to me. Now, Katee Sackhoff stated in a radio interview a few months ago that Starbuck was going to die and be revealed as a Cylon. Half of that's come to pass. But, I'm left wondering...what if she's not revealed as a Cylon. Near the end of her vision (for want of a better word), she tumbled to the fact that the "Leoben" escorting her through it wasn't really Leoben, and he responded with, "I never said I was." What if this is bringing us to the current series' version of the "Ship of Lights" from the original series? What if Starbuck and her destiny are connected to the "angels" represented there?

RE: BSG

One thought that occurred to me when watching it: Wouldn't it be an utter mindfrak if, after dropping unsubtle hints that Starbuck was going to buy the farm, that she would actually survive and Lee was the one who was going to die? (Leaving Kara with a frakload of guilt and a promotion to CAG.)

Re: Heroes

Peter: Can Peter replicate all of Syler's powers or only the one that Syler was actually born with?
I don't think Peter will have an easy time fighting Syler. Syler is a pretty tough guy, and he was a threat even for Claire. Somebody else, maybe Claude, will save him.
On the other hand I feel they over did it with his powers. It's too much for him to have constant access to the powers of every other hero on the show pretty much. Is it possible that he's slated to die as a tragic hero? If someone has to die or go away, I could live with him dying. I think there is less to explore about him. It won't be too much of a disaster if he doesn't make it to season 2 from a creative point of view. But he may be popular with audiences.
With Nathan on the other hand there is much more to be explored (especially if his brother dies). Despite the fact that he's appeared in many episodes there seem to be so much more to develop about him, and he rarely uses his powers. I hope they don't decide to drop him.

Jessica/Nikki: I used to think Nikki had multuple personality disorder, and that her psychological inhibitions caused her to be able to use her powers as Jessica, but not as Nikki, and that eventually she'll learn to be a more aggressive Nikki. But there is a physical difference between them. Only one has the company tattoe.
Will the show consider it too uneducational to keep Jessica/Nikki is a cool heroic villeiin dispite her homocidal tendencies? Or will she have to die to make penance for her crimes? It would be a shame. I like Jessica, and would regret to see her go. Nikki is a little too pathetic, unless she grows into her own in the last third of the season. Would an empowered Nikki be considered sufficient redemption?
DL is a neglected character. If he goes away, people won't miss him much. Same with his son. But I'm curious about what they could do with them.

Mohinder: for 5 seconds he became Mohinder Bauer and was interesting. But except for that he seems like the most useless guy in the show.

Issac: I realize this is not very educational, but I find Issac the heroin addict to be much more interesting then the clean Issac. He seems like a character that could be let go without much regret, and he is guilty of manslaughter. But I'm often curious about under-explored characters.

Matt Parkman: Why didn't he use the hero with the computer hacking capabilities to hack into Bennet's computer? I like him as a character, and I hope they don't drop him at any point. Like many of the other meek characters on this show, he deserves to inherit the earth eventually, and I don't think they'll have enough time in this season.

Mr. Bennet: I'm afraid the show will be tempted to kill him off in an act of sacrifice. I hope they don't do that, and if they do, that he'll reemerge quickly. Claire, I think, is safe. She certainly has a lot to grow into as a character. The Haitian is a mystery character that needs to be explored.

There seem to be several big players out there, who may be connected somehow: Mr. Nakamora (who is probably connected to the Dharma initiative, who have been so busy in the mutasnt business they forgot about the island), Linderman, Simon's father (who owns the buiilding in which Mr. Nakamora handed Mr. Bennet the young Claire, and Mrs. Pattrelli.

The company should reexamine is hiring policy. There's not much company loyalty. At least three significant employees have proven themselves to have divided loyalties. We also have to question are previous assumption that it was a government agency. And why is it that wo shows have mystery companies controled by mysterious Japanese?

I hope heroes doesn't follow the 'Lost' pattern of adding more and more characters while neglecting others (mostly female) or just letting them drop along the way before they were fully developed. Sometime I worry that Heroes wil be as disappointing in it's third season as Lost has become.

"Can Peter replicate all of Syler's powers or only the one that Syler was actually born with?"

Syler was only born with the power to see how things work. The only power of his that we've seen Peter use is the telekinesis that Syler stole. So Peter can definitely use powers that Syler wasn't born with, but we don't know if he can use powers that Syler hasn't used in his presence.

BSG: The "city of Lights" theory works for me.

I thought I spotted white light as Starbuck went down, and this series has pulled in elements used in the original series.

ie. the Pegasus return, the tomb of Kobol,
Even having the new Sharon come with the name call sign of Athena. (Adama's daughter in the classic version)

This current series hasn't forgotten the basic tenets of the old series, just uses them diffrently and in much more detail and time.

Whether Niki/Jessica is a true case of multiple personalities or somehow Jessica is really her supposedly deceased sister somehow inhabiting her body was never made clear.

I tend to believe it's a purely psychological thing, seeing as "Six Months Ago" confirmed that her father abused both sisters. But the same episode also gives fodder to the theory that Jessica somehow transfered herself to Niki's body when their father killed her.

I know it's a superhero show and fantastical things are the norm, but that sounds a bit too, I dunno, supernatural for my tastes.

As for Peter's potential to unbalance the show. I bet that Peter will be drastically de-powered after the explosion thing, but he won't die.

I know they're saying no one is safe in this show, but I still believe there is a core of characters that are as safe as can be for now: Claire, Peter, Hiro, Niki, Matt, Mohinder, and Nathan.

BSG- Kara Thrace is NOT dead. Period. They spent too much time emphasizing the hurricane-thing in her visions. Something led Kara to this. There's a significance to her vision about which we can only guess.
Remember, when Number Three looked upon the face
of one of the Five, she recognized the person as someone she knew. Let's also remember that Cylons
can have false memories so the whole thing with her mother (a wonderfully icy performance from Dorothy Lyman) could be contrived.
Overall, this episode reminds me very much of
B5's "Z'ha Dun" and "Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?"

I'm thinking that Kara Thrace is really and truly dead. I admit that I may have been fooled by the Podcast the Moore did. He talked about the episode as if she were gone for good, but he could be an accomplished liar and trying to lead his audience into the direction that he wants.

"And as to Ando showing up at the last minute - I hate to suggest this & someone might beat me up for doing so - but with this show it seems possible that he too may now be one of Linderman's agents."

"You know, particularly if Linderman and Hiro's dad are in cahoots, that actually makes sense. Be a helluva reveal, wouldn't it."

When I first read this, I inferred that Ando had been keeping tabs on Hiro for Linderman and/or Hiro's dad all along, which I think would be a really bad idea. Going back and looking at what you actually said, though, it looks as though you're suggesting that Ando is working for Linderman now, which would make more sense. After all, Ando's already convinced Hiro to help him cheat at one of Linderman's casinos, and he's also effectively helped to steal a big bag full o' chips. If Linderman knows about this, then Ando has good reason to start helping him to avoid having his head stuck on a spike over Caesar's Palace, or whatever it is they do with traitors in Vegas.

If they are going to do a reveal for Ando, I hope it's this. But even more than that, I hope they don't. So far Ando looks to be the one ordinary guy on the show, the one guy without any powers, without any hidden agenda. Everything we've seen of him so far suggests that he's accompanied Hiro on this quest and even put himself in danger just because Hiro is his friend. Considering that everyone else seems to have (i) powers, (ii) secrets, or (iii) less than two degrees of separation to the people with (i) and (ii), I think the story really needs at least one Ordinary Guy with no powers who's just there to do the right thing.

Or to put it another way, as one of my friends did when I explained this to her, "Ando is Xander."

If it's revealed that he's had a hidden agenda all along... well, I won't say that I didn't see it coming, but let's just say that short-term shock value could be hurt by long-term anger.

The Haitian basically cherry-picked the memories of where Claire went nothing more. OOh and that evil Mystique-like woman. Naughty school-girl motif aside she's the new character we're gonna love to hate.

Ando is Xander- Sancho Panza, Baba Looey....

btw PAD- I am halfway through Sagittarius. Like it so far- I am a bit put off by the obvious insertion of current events into the narrative ( ie wiretapping- Gitmo references) Love the Nordic characters and the counterbalance of the Roman/Scandinavian mythos. Lawyers, feh.

"Like it so far- I am a bit put off by the obvious insertion of current events into the narrative ( ie wiretapping- Gitmo references)"

But that's perfectly consistent with what BSG has done on the series. For instance, what else was the cure whipped up for Roslyn but a commentary on stem cell research?

PAD

Micha said:

"Will the show consider it too uneducational to keep Jessica/Nikki is a cool heroic villeiin dispite her homocidal tendencies? Or will she have to die to make penance for her crimes? It would be a shame. I like Jessica, and would regret to see her go. Nikki is a little too pathetic, unless she grows into her own in the last third of the season. Would an empowered Nikki be considered sufficient redemption?"

What the heck is a "heroic villain?" An antihero? A freaking Freddy Krueger, killing little kids and saying cool things while doing it? She's still KILLING! And with even less justification than Sylar, who's doing it out of his pathetic need to gain power and "be somebody. She's doing it for what amounts to pocket change. I suspect that Jessica actually gets a kick out of killing.

This is one of the problems I have with antiheroes in popular culture. Simply because a guy looks cool, and has a clever quip to say while stabbing an infant through the skull multiple times, some people fall in love with him and consider him a role model.

I just watched "Taxi Driver" again, and while it's unlikely anybody would imitate Jessica the way that Hinckley imitated Travis Bickle, I'd worry about someone who would pick up a maquette and build a shrine to a killer.

And again, Micha said:

"The company should reexamine is hiring policy. There's not much company loyalty. At least three significant employees have proven themselves to have divided loyalties. We also have to question are previous assumption that it was a government agency. And why is it that wo shows have mystery companies controled by mysterious Japanese?"

I'm beginning to think that The Company is disintegrating. Very much like the Italian Mafia in real life, and like Tony Soprano's organization, greed and unrestrained personal power is causing it to fall apart. Mr. Bennett (who gained the stupid nickname HRG...what are they going to call Linderman, "Hello, I'm A British Person"?) is a principal player in the organization who is using it for his own agenda. There have to be others. I'm almost waiting for Mr. Nakamura to spout the classic criticism: "All you Americans are fat, lazy and disobey your fathers!"

Haven't read every post, so what I have to say might be a repeat of above, but here's my 2 cents:

BSG: Even if Starbuck ejected, she could still be in serious trouble. After all, she ejected into the athmosphere of a Gas Giant, so there is nowhere to land, and I can't see a Viper slowing down enough for a pickup even if they manage to find her. However, like many others, I don't think she id DEAD-dead. She somehow either escapes, or she turns out to be one of the Final Five.

Heroes: I'm glad that the producers of this show aren't afraid of 'stunt casting' genre actors; as soon as I saw Malcom's name in the credits, I knew who Linderman was. Its also good to know that Hiro's pop is a bigger part of the larger conspiracy (and not just a one 'issue' nod to the sci-fi fans out there). Finally, I'm glad that Mohinder wasn't as dumb as he seemed. It was so obvious that 'melting lad' was Sylar, after finding the body of the mechanic. He should have just shot syler after he went down (dna would have still been useful ^_^). Can't wait for April 23rd.

On Jess/Niki, I think the Haitian will eventually "remove" Niki from Jessicas mind.

"On Jess/Niki, I think the Haitian will eventually "remove" Niki from Jessicas mind."

Now THAT'S a possibilitiy that hadn't even occurred to me. It could work if Jessica is just a constuction of Niki's mind. If she's really the spirit of Niki's dead twin, it might not work.

BSG: The producers left it right where they wanted it. They can leave Starbuck dead for the rest of the series, with this episode as her true finale. OR they can have that Cylon raider she kept seeing really be there and waiting to pick her up almost immediately after she ejects, to be reintroduced when fan sentiment reaches an all-time high concerning her. OR maybe the storm was the perfect formation to create a powerful natural transimitter for her download back on a resurrection ship as one of the final five. Heck, maybe she turns up on the series finale to spoil/lead the Cylon's final confrontation with the Colonial fleet.

Heroes: The writing on this show... so many times I think I know what to expect. Especially for a network series, they do an excellent job of promoting it without giving too much away. Case in point, the return of Ando at just the right moment. It wasn't hinted at once in the ads for the show. And when they seem to give stuff away, they do a great job of redirecting what's in the show to seem like something else is going on in the ads. Aside from the show's ineherently great qualities making for great tv, they are just handling this show perfectly, after so many mishandled boondoggles of other genre shows (or does anyone really think they handled "Surface" worth a damn?)

But that's perfectly consistent with what BSG has done on the series. For instance, what else was the cure whipped up for Roslyn but a commentary on stem cell research?

PAD

I was thinking that as well, now that you mention it. My beef is just that it seems too easy, too pat to latch on to the problems of the day. Sometimes the mirror cracks. That is whats more interesting- not the copying but the re-coding.

All in all still a good read- have also picked up the next Apropos installment from the Lie-Berry ( they get new books pretty fast )and will devour it with great relishment ( and ketchupization as well)

Dark Tower- excellent, nuff said.
Come a long ways from proofreading indicia, eh?

Posted by: JohnLock at March 8, 2007 05:06 PM

My beef is just that it seems too easy, too pat to latch on to the problems of the day That is whats more interesting- not the copying but the re-coding.

Except they're not merely "copying." There aren't any direct real-world parallels to the premise of BSG. After all, in the real world, the human race hasn't been hammered down to less than 50,000 people and sent on the run by a genocidal race of machines hellbent on destroying their creators.

BSG has done an excellent job of serving as an allegory without being didactic. Take the recent episode where Tyrol organizes a labor strike. What a fascinating episode, watching the characters juggle the need for military discipline, pragmatic economic concerns (the fleet needs fuel, dammit!), and morality (it's not right for jobs to become "inherited").

They can keep on keepin' on when it comes to mirroring the real world, because they do it subtly and do it well.

BSG:

I think that Kara did eject, and that either via the raider, or some other mechanism, she gets to the "hurricane" she's been seeing since she is a child. What makes her "special" is that she is destined to follow the spout of the hurricane, which turns out to be a funnel that makes the pressure on the planet light enough to lead Starbuck the next marker left by the 13th colony.

I also think that maybe at the end of that light-enough-pressure-spout is not just a marker, but a small group of colonists with a cyclon sheriff (borrowing from the classic series that found other colonists after traveling through the void at the end of known BSG space).

Daniel

Is Kara one of the remaining five?

I really wouldn’t bet on it - she has mom, remember? None of the Cylons/human models so far can attest to having any kind of family.

Don't the Cylons have all of the original's memories? For example, the Cylon Boomer had all of the original's memories.

I know the BSG comic book is not in continuity wiht the television show, but there was an arc in which the group fround a medic ship, and on board was Adama's son, Apollo's brother. It turns out he was a clone/cylon, and he had all of his childhood memories.

Ah, but are the Final Five actually Cylons?

Certainly the Cylons think so, but they're hardly disinterested - if the Five aren't Cylons, and there aren't actually twelve models (or there were, but five of 'em got boxed), that means that whoever the Cylon spiritual leader(s) is/are (my money's on Leoben), that leader(s) is/are lying.

So, what if the Five are actually humans - say, the Five Priest of the One Whose Name Must Not Be Said, staying between life and death?

Or even Zeus, Hera (the deity, not the baby), Artemis, and the rest of the gang from Kobol? Maybe the Gods are real...

"that means that whoever the Cylon spiritual leader(s) is/are (my money's on Leoben), that leader(s) is/are lying."

My money's on Cavil (Dean Stockwell)being the one that's hiding some sort of dread secret about the origins of the cylon models. He was the one who was willing to shoot D'ana (Lucy Lawless) to keep her from using the Eye of Jupiter. He was the one who boxed her entire line because she was trying to find ultimate answers about the cylons soul. He is the one who is always reminding the other models that their just machines and shouldn't try to be more like the humans, etc.

Heroes is nothing like Wild Cards: It's actually good.

I found Wild Cards lame all around--not as wild as a good comic, not as clever about super-heroes-in-the-real-world as comics have sometimes been, and Tachyon makes Scott Summers look stoic.

Lindemann was a blast. I love his discussion of perfection being only attainable through cooking.

For all those of you who think Starbuck isnt dead theres an online interview with Katee Sackhoff who says that Starbuck is dead, she has left the series and then talks about what she'll be working on next.

First, we've no clear idea how the human Cylons are actually first created/born/developed. Second, we've no reason to assume that Kara's mother was her birth mother.

For that matter, what have we seen of Kara's mother other than the flashbacks, in which Kara is the only other participant? Clearly some of the human cylons - Boomer - have implanted memories that they believe are real, why would this be any different? She remembers a fucked up mother and difficult life but how do we know it was real?

Wait until you see what Linderman has planned in the next episode.... I made it to the Paley Festival panel and they screened a clip with some interesting news about Linderman and his plans. You can see my report and links to others at sftvblog.blogspot.com .

As for the seven week break... Hasn't anyone ever watched broadcast TV before? They are still writing the final episode and maybe are filming the next to last episode. It takes time to film shows like this. We're still getting 23 episodes this season. For comparison, Doctor Who takes 9 months to film 14 episodes.

Lee Whiteside
SFTV.org

"As for the seven week break... Hasn't anyone ever watched broadcast TV before?"

well Lee, there's a big gap between knowing it and liking it.

The answer to Starbuck's fate is in the first season, remember the "War of the Gods" episodes and the Ship of Light? I'll bet all of my cubbits that she is with the re-imagined version of these characters that appeared in the original BSG series.

Summary of these: "Viper squadrons are disappearing from regular patrols, and mysterious bright lights are flying around the Galactica at immeasurable speed. On an eery, red-glowing planet, the enigmatic Count Iblis is found, apparently the sole survivor of a major catastrophe."