PeterDavid.net

I had a wonderful Thanksgiving, and I hope everyone else did as well.

I was surrounded by my girlfriend, my parents, my sister, my brother-in-law, my three-year-old niece, and my one-year-old nephew. What more could I ask for?

I am a lucky, lucky guy.

And yeah, staying away from the malls sounds like a wise strategy for today.

Yeah, we really don't do the whole Thanksgiving thing at all: we don't visit family, family doesn't visit us, we don't make nice meals. We just stay at home and relax.

We're going to hit the mall here shortly though.

We saw Happy Feet last weekend. It is a very good film, and not only does it have the message about our effects on the environment, it also had a very strong message about accepting those that are different - makes you wonder if they were targetting anybody in particular? :)

I'd also say that the movie is perfect for any guy wanting to suck up to his significant other. When my wife and I saw the film, more than half the audience was young adult women. And at every moment where you'd expect it, you got the chorus of "aww's" and such from the ladies for what the characters in the movie were doing.

Thanksgiving wasn't too bad. It was just my father, his sister, her grandson--who is my age--and myself. We ordered a pre-setup Turkey dinner including stuffing, mashed potatoes, apple pie, gravy (that had an odd, Doc Samson tinge to it, now that I think about it) and cranberry sauce, but we made our own sweet potatoes and a cranberry relish, which was very good but no one really ate. We also had some Budweiser and Mogen David blackberry red wine (the latter of which I drank) and I found out that I'm a sleepy drunk. The tryptophan doesn't help much either. Oi.
In any case, just picked up Re-X-Animations on Wednesday, as well as a lot of other goodness.
Click my name for a link to my MySpace page wherein you can read my most recent blog: "This Week In Comics - Thanksgiving Special," where I review the books I decided to burn my cash on, and while it was an expensive week, it too was a fruitful one. Oh, and by the by, Re-X-Animations was fantastic. Makes me wanna track down the first ititerations.

Okay, I've waited two days for the X-Factor thread, but I can't hold my tongue any longer.

Best. Issue. Ever.

Seriously, I had high expectations for Re-X-aminations, and PAD not only met them, but exceeded them. References to Penace, Emplate, and the best X-villain of all time, the dreaeded jar of mayo!

I still don't like Rictor though. That's not PAD fault, however, I never did like him.

"Technically flawless with a hell of a lot to say about matters of global importance, all it needed was Al Gore at the end saying, "I'm Al Gore and I approve this message." Okay, on second thought, maybe it didn't need that, but it was still brilliant."

Ugh. That's about the most daming praise I've ever seen for a film ever.

I don't want to watch an animated movie for 'matters of global importance'.

When I watch a cartoon I want to be entertained. Preaching(apparently to the choir in your case) doesn't entertain me.

Guess that's why I won't go to church.

I can also recommend "Happy Feet," but I should also note that if you're expecting a fluffy kids' movie, be warned that it goes to some fairly dark places at times. (I make a point of mentioning this in part because I never saw a trailer or commercial that conveyed what the film was about besides "dancing penguins.") Just something to be aware of if you're planning on taking the kids--it's PG for a reason.

I was also thinking that this is one of a handful of CG movies that really justifies being made in CG--a lot of them would work fine as traditionally animated films, but I can't picture "Happy Feet" having nearly the impact it does in traditional cel animation. (Just the fact that the major penguin characters are visually distinguishable is an achievement in itself.)

We were considering doing the Charlie Brown's thing for about a minute and a half, but I like cooking too much, even if it's just for two (and days' worth of leftovers). Thanksgiving is something I anticipate for weeks, planning the meals and choreographing the prep in my head, so I get a real kick out of doing it.

Gah! My dyslexia kicked in again. X_X
I meant "Re-X-Aminations." Gah. ~_~

I wholeheartedly agree about _Happy Feet_! That was an amazingly wonderful movie that had me laughing and crying and chair-dancing my little heart out.

Yes, there's a global message, but that's not the only layer. In fact, there are so many layers to this movie I was craving a parfait afterwards.

This movie is beautiful, sometimes hilarious, sometimes breathtakingly majestic, sometimes very thoughtful, and it's about penguins! How can you go wrong?

Yeah, I agree about the Best Animation category. One day, someone is going to adapt Art Spiegelman's Maus or Craig Thompson's Blankets into an incredible film, one that perhaps captures the hearts of animation and non-animation lovers alike, perhaps beginning a paradigm shift as to how animation is viewed in this country, and then you'll see the embarassing spectacle of a beautiful work of art in the same Oscar category as the next Shrek film or whatever piece of dreck Fox or Dreamworks foists on the public. At that point, perhaps the Academy will realize the stupidity of creating a category based solely on medium instead of content.

Happy Thanksgiving to you too, Peter. Coincidentally, I'll be recruiting for a few film screenings in Chelsea starting today, right across the street from the Boston Market on W23rd Street, which means that I'll be getting some Thanksgiving-type restaurant food too (even if I did have it at home with the family yesterday first). :-)

And thanks for the heads-up on HF. I'll add it to my "To See" list. :-)

I had a great Thanksgiving, and I'm glad to see that so many here did as well.

PAD, you know that you could probably open a new thread just for "Happy Feet" with the "controversy" that the pundits on right are trying to make out of it. The talking points that I've been catching all week is that it's nothing more then an animated "An Inconvenient Truth" that paints humans as evil and thoughtless and that it's meant to brainwash small children.

I haven't seen it, but friends who have gave reviews no where near that extreme even if they did touch on what you did a bit. It might be interesting to see how the diverse political POV's here reacted to the film.

My Thanksgiving day went extremely well, as I hope everyone else's did. My family and I went to my aunt's house and had a wonderful home-cooked meal: turkey, mashed potatoes, biscuits and gravy, the works. I also got to hang out with my cousins. My oldest cousin is also a big comic book reader, so we sat around talking about Spider-Man, X-Factor and X-Men, Thunderbolts and Avengers, Planet Hulk, Marvel's Civil War, and all kinds of other fun stuff. It was great. :-D

But while the rest of the family is safe from the ravages of Black Friday, as I post this my mom's working in Toys R Us today. My thoughts are with her now on this, the worst of the gift-shopping days.

--Don aka Ygor

"The talking points that I've been catching all week is that it's nothing more then an animated "An Inconvenient Truth" that paints humans as evil and thoughtless and that it's meant to brainwash small children."

Sixty years ago I'm sure some were saying much the same about "Bambi," portraying mankind as thoughtless and heartless, murdering mothers and torching forests in their carelessness. In point of fact (without giving anything away) humans come off a hell of a lot better in "Happy Feet" than "Bambi," so the whole evil argument doesn't work at all.

PAD

To the folks who are urging some sort of caution because of "dark" elements in Happy Feet (such as Doug Atkinson's "it's PG for a reason"), I'd happily note that most classic "kiddie films" in the past century have included SOME "dark" elements (notably the classic Disney films and The Wizard of Oz) yet most children somehow managed to grow up pretty well-adjusted. The major problem is that too many animated films have fallen into that "let's-drop-the-kids-off-while-we-do-something-else" category for way too many parents. If the parents will go in and watch the films WITH the kids, no "kiddie" film should be considered too "dark".

"At that point, perhaps the Academy will realize the stupidity of creating a category based solely on medium instead of content."

I don't think the problem is that the category is based on medium, but rather the fact that there are relatively few animated movies each year, and they all qualify for the Best Picture category anyway, and yet having the animation category virtually assures that they'll never be nominated in the Best Picture category. The documentary and short subject categories are based on medium, but these are necessary because A. there are many, many docs and short films made each year, and B. most of them don't qualify for Best Picture (the exceptions being the feature-length docs that get a theatrical run in this country).

It's true that without the best animated film category a lot of great films would be shut out completely. I think there is a natural bias against them from the flesh and blood voters who pick the films.

It's a bit similar to the best foreign film category. And correct me if I'm wrong but can't foreign films be nominated for best film? So can't a really great animated movie skip out on the best animated nomination and go for broke in the best picture category?

"And correct me if I'm wrong but can't foreign films be nominated for best film?"

Only if they play in theaters in the U.S. The foreign film cateogory has a completely different nomination process, one that's designed to draw the best films from each country, regardless of whether they get a U.S. theatrical release. Its purpose is therefore quite different from that of the animation category.

"So can't a really great animated movie skip out on the best animated nomination and go for broke in the best picture category?"

Yes, in theory, but you yourself said that there's a natural bias against animated films. Having their own category makes it even more difficult for them to get a Best Picture nomination that it already was. And since only one animated movie has EVER been nominated for best picture, I doubt we'll ever see another one as long as the Best Animated Film award remains in existence.

"So can't a really great animated movie skip out on the best animated nomination and go for broke in the best picture category?"

My understanding (and I could be wrong) was that after disneys beauty and the beast got nominated for a best picture the academy changed the rules to keep animated films from being nominated for best pic again.

"My understanding (and I could be wrong) was that after disneys beauty and the beast got nominated for a best picture the academy changed the rules to keep animated films from being nominated for best pic again."

That's not true. Why would they do that?

"Why would they do that?"

Why did they change the rules to never allow a comic book to win the World Fantasy Award again after Gaiman did so with his "Sandman" story "A Midsummer-Night's Dream." Bacause some people are snobs and jack@$$e$.

Yesterday, I think our son decided to be a vegetarian. He watched us take the turkey out of the oven(all the while yelling because I wanted to take it out of the pan on the rack while Stace wanted to do it on the table, it was some weird candid camera moment) and then asked if the turkey wanted to be eaten, why it didn't have a head, and whether or not it was sad before it died. But, he was never big on meat, anyway. Now, if macaroni and cheese ever had a head, we'd be in trouble. First one to throw in about head cheese, well, I still beat ya. So, then, after dinner, Stace and I talked about what we wanna do over the next year or so(this woman usually doesn't plan the next hour or so.) Then, she went to work at 11, and I got writer's curse. You guys know, that really great idea that just won't let you sleep at all? Yeah, so I haven't slept since 9:45 yesterday morning, and I went to work today, stayed awake the entire time, then took Brian out after so Stace could sleep before going to work tonight. All in all, a good day. Next year, God willing, we'll have a bigger kitchen that Barbie's Dream House and I'll once again have an actual roasting pan to cook the turkey in instead of those silly tinfoil things.

The problem with animation is people seem to expect the Smurfs or Huckleberry Hound. Heaven forBID there be any deeper meaning to a kid's medium! It's not your grandfather's animation universe anymore. Anything with pictures that isn't a cave drawing is just labeled for kids(Yeah, like the other day when I saw Batman vs. Dracula in a kid's section. Good movie, NOT for kids.) Most people don't want to take the time to really examine something for what it is, not what they think it is. (Hi, Kettle? It's me, Pot. You still black? Yeah, me, too.) And most kids can handle some dark. Brian, my 5 year old, can practically recite every Martin Mystery episode and loves the whole Spidey/Venom/Carnage mix. But then there's my wife, who gets scared by either of them. I grew up on Star Blazers and Battle of the Planets. People die on those shows. Was I scarred for life at that age? Yeah, but by the brick wall and a rock fight, not by cartoons. I miss Star Blazers. Oh, and for anyone that didn't know Voltron is finally out on DVD. And if there's any series you want to get on DVD, check EB Games. I got a brand new Enterprise season 4 for 44 bucks the other day.

Haven't seen Happy Feet, however, declaring it The Best Movie of 2006 is a bold statement considering all the gold out there like, Brick, V For Vendetta, Borat: Cultural Learnings of America, United 93, Thank You For Smoking, The Presitge, and, of course, Snakes On A Plane.

Heck, even when it comes down to pure CGI movies, I think Feet would have a hellova lot to prove over Final Fantasy 7: Advent Children. That movie is totally computer generated, and its just jaw-droppingly beautiful.

Speaking of movies, going to see The Fountain in just over 12 hours, hope its amounts to a sci-fi-infused romance story as epic as it has been sold as in the ads.

Sean,

"...and then asked if the turkey wanted to be eaten..."

Never, eeeeeever, let him read Milo Bloom's Thanksgiving prayer from Bloom County. He may never let you eat turkey again.

"Star Blazers and Battle of the Planets. People die on those shows."

Don't forget Robotech and Roy's death.

"I miss Star Blazers."

Check out cduniverse and deepdiscountdvd. Both sites have all three seasons for hit and miss good prices. They still float at about $100.00 a season but drop to $75.00 to $80.00 on the odd sale.

"I got a brand new Enterprise season 4 for 44 bucks the other day."

For Enterprise? Man..... You got charged about 40 bucks too much on that one.

;)

Don't forget Robotech and Roy's death.

Been years (decades?) since I watched Robotech, but what's always stuck with me (on the subject of death in toons) was the arrival of the Invid. Season finale, the new alien invaders show up and just rain armageddon on the planet. Boom.

The Japanese (and other Asian cultures in general) tend to not be as overprotective of their kids when it comes to death and some of the other realities of life, at least when it comes to shows aimed at teens and pre-teens.

We had a pretty good Thanksgiving. As good as possible when working the night before and of.

The wife kicked me out of bed about 4 and let me know that our little one has her first tooth. Hurray, one down and a bunch to go! Got together at my brother's house with the parents and brother and sister-in-law (and their first kid, still in-utero), had way too much to eat, and just hung out until I had to leave for work.

All in all, a good day. Now I just need to work on catching up on the sleep I missed. :P

-Rex Hondo-

Posted by: Sean Scullion at November 24, 2006 11:51 PM

Yesterday, I think our son decided to be a vegetarian. He watched us take the turkey out of the oven(all the while yelling because I wanted to take it out of the pan on the rack while Stace wanted to do it on the table, it was some weird candid camera moment) and then asked if the turkey wanted to be eaten, why it didn't have a head, and whether or not it was sad before it died.

Reminds me of a sequence from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy books. I think it was in The Restaurant at the End of the Universe. Arthur Dent and Ford Prefect are in a restaurant, and the waiter wheels out a sentient pig who had knowingly volunteered to become food. Arthur Dent was, of course, horrified by this. In an attempt to make Arthur feel better about the whole thing, the pig promised be very humane about it when he shot himself in the head.

Posted by: Sean Scullion at November 24, 2006 11:51 PM

I got a brand new Enterprise season 4 for 44 bucks the other day.

Don't listen to Jerry C. Enterprise snapped out of the doldrums with Season 3's Xindi storyline. Season 4 of Enterprise was phenomenal. Except for the finale. My girlfriend and I are still fuming about that.

I even liked the theme song to Enterprise. Do you hear me world? I LIKED THE THEME SONG!

I have it on my iPod.

Posted by: Bill Mulligan at November 24, 2006 04:34 PM

It's true that without the best animated film category a lot of great films would be shut out completely. I think there is a natural bias against them from the flesh and blood voters who pick the films.

Cartoon characters should also be allowed to vote. Closing them out of the process is discriminatory.

Don't listen to Jerry C. Enterprise snapped out of the doldrums with Season 3's Xindi storyline. Season 4 of Enterprise was phenomenal. Except for the finale. My girlfriend and I are still fuming about that.

I even liked the theme song to Enterprise. Do you hear me world? I LIKED THE THEME SONG!

Agreed about the Xindi story arc. Although I don't know if I'd describe season 4 as "phenomenal." Fun, certainly. There were many points where you could see that they knew it was their last season and just pulled out all the stops. Of course, I also have to agree about the finale. They could have shifted around a couple of scenes at the end of "Terra Prime," added a little bit, and it would have been a wonderful sendoff.

The theme certainly grew on me, but I hated when they added the guitar, giving it way too much of a country twang.

Oh, and just so ya know, it was a cow in Resteraunt at the End of the Universe that walked out of the back and started recommending particular cuts of itself. ;)

-Rex Hondo-

"I even liked the theme song to Enterprise. Do you hear me world? I LIKED THE THEME SONG!"

I like it too. Not love it, but I like it, it is a little more upbeat, more folksy than the usual music on Star Trek.

One of the problems I have with the Star Trek Universe is how snobby it is musically. It's the 24 century, but musically it's 1935 -- Jazz and classical music. Can you imagine what would have happened if somebody started playing Rock music on on any of the enterprises or Deep Space Nine? 'm not even going to suggest Hip Hop, Picard's mind will explode, I'm talking about the classics: Jimi Hendrix, Beatles etc. Even the alien music is very formal and sedate. Don't the aliens ever have fun?

Posted by: Rex Hondo at November 25, 2006 07:21 AM

Oh, and just so ya know, it was a cow in Resteraunt at the End of the Universe that walked out of the back and started recommending particular cuts of itself. ;)

Just so ya know -- I'm always grateful to you, and anyone else for that matter, who corrects me about things like this. Accuracy counts (although you wouldn't think I believed that given the frequency with which I get stuff wrong!).

Posted by: Micha at November 25, 2006 07:46 AM

Don't the aliens ever have fun?

Yes. Yes they do. They have fun at the Orion strip clubs. But after TOS they stopped allowing cameras in those joints. Picard didn't want anyone to see him slipping gold-pressed latinum into an Orion stripper's garter.

>Don't the aliens ever have fun?

As a probate lawyer once remarked, it's all relatives. Listening to most 'rock', 'hip-hop' or 'rap' is, in the words of Waldorf & Statler, "like some kind of torture" to me. Now a rousing rendition of Rhapsody in Blue, or some fine Mozart ... that's another story. Your mileage may vary and that's fine. Just remember to keep the volume control down on your sound system when I'm around and I'll be glad to return the favour here.

As for animation ... anyone liking HAPPY FEET (from the spoilers I've read of it) ... consider trying Miyazaki's NAUSICAA OF THE VALLEY OF THE WINDS. True, it uses people (not to mention BIG bugs) and not penguins to make its points, but don't hold that against the film. Don't forget to stick around for the end of the closing credits where one freeze frame does more to get the point across than some entire movies have managed. Just be sure and avoid the butchered American translation WARRIORS OF THE WIND (circa mid 80s?) which ripped out about fifteen-twenty minutes of the core message in favour of keeping all the cool battle scenes. Feh. There's a reason why it took Miyazaki over fifteen years before he'd allow a Hollywood studio anywhere near one of his films again.

"As a probate lawyer once remarked, it's all relatives. Listening to most 'rock', 'hip-hop' or 'rap' is, in the words of Waldorf & Statler, "like some kind of torture" to me. Now a rousing rendition of Rhapsody in Blue, or some fine Mozart ... that's another story. Your mileage may vary and that's fine. Just remember to keep the volume control down on your sound system when I'm around and I'll be glad to return the favour here."

I have nothing against classical music. I'm not always a fan of hip hop. That's a matter of personal taste. My problem is that the Star Trek society as a whole has a very conservative and not very imaginative musical taste. Instaed of imagining what future music is going to be like, and what would be considered classical in the future, they decided to ignore completely at least three significant musical movements of the last century. In the Star Trek universe there is no other music, no other musical taste other than classical and not very inovative Jazz. And the alien music is also presented as something you would go to a concert hall to see. What is Klingon pop music? Folk music? Ignoring these questions makes the Star Trek universe seem very stuffy and snobby to me. I like it, but I'm critical of part of its attitudes in this and in other things.

I always thought "Babylon 5" more than made up for that. Who can forget Vir and Londo writhing in agony when the technomages pumped Narn opera into Londo's quarters.

PAD

Bill Myers: I even liked the theme song to Enterprise. Do you hear me world? I LIKED THE THEME SONG! I have it on my iPod.
Luigi Novi: I loved it too, and have it on my iTunes. But I hated the version they started using in the third season.

As far as using anything other than classical music, Trek isn't being snobby or formal; it's being smart. Pop music is so dated that episodes will feel dated in just a decade. The original series tried doing contemporary pop music with the space hippies in The Way to Eden, and as a result, that episode looks ridiculous today, at least in part because of it. But the classics have been around for centuries, and will presumably be around for centuries more. Aside from the rare extraterretrial exceptions (Jono playing Talarian pop music in Suddenly Human(TNG), Worf requesting Klingon opera in Unification part II(TNG), etc.), the creators know their musical choices won't look ridiculously dated if they stick to the classics. It's simply one of the problems that face creators of futuristic settings.

You know, it's funny that so many people are chiming in that they too liked the Enterprise theme (and yeah, I agree that the addition of that backbeat starting with Season 3 was a definite minus). On any of the boards devoted to Trek, everything I've seen about the Enterprise theme has amounted to, "Hated it."

As far as using anything other than classical music, Trek isn't being snobby or formal; it's being smart. Pop music is so dated that episodes will feel dated in just a decade. The original series tried doing contemporary pop music with the space hippies in The Way to Eden, and as a result, that episode looks ridiculous today, at least in part because of it. But the classics have been around for centuries, and will presumably be around for centuries more. Aside from the rare extraterretrial exceptions (Jono playing Talarian pop music in Suddenly Human(TNG), Worf requesting Klingon opera in Unification part II(TNG), etc.), the creators know their musical choices won't look ridiculously dated if they stick to the classics. It's simply one of the problems that face creators of futuristic settings.

Luigi just nailed it right on the head. Nothing dates a show more than trying to incoporate the pop culture of the moment. We laugh at what was cutting edge just a few years ago. (Youtube has been an invaluable place to find some of those great old MTV clips of yesteryear and, well, a lot of them weren't as great as I remember. "Dog Police", sure, THAT holds up, but most of the others...

It's also why movies from the 60s have dated so badly (that and the switch to the filmstock that fades with time. Jesus! Some of the color films look positively black and white with hints of sepia today. Damn shame.)

What I hate about too many science fiction shows is that they show every member of a particular planet dressing exactly the same. That seems to be a common idea from way back when--in the future we will all dress alike. In truth, compare a yearbook from the 60s to one from today and see just how much more individuality is expressed in dress, music, hairstyles, etc. The future should be one of less and less conformity, unless it is enforced at the point of a (ray) gun.

Sean --- I'm a lurker here for the most part, but I had to tell you, as if you didn't already know, you have a frighteningly insightful AND compassionate son.

Marc

TallestFanEver -
Heck, even when it comes down to pure CGI movies, I think Feet would have a hellova lot to prove over Final Fantasy 7: Advent Children.

FF7:AC is excellent, but it still has it's moments where you know you're looking at a CG movie.

Happy Feet just has you believing that penguins really can sing and dance. I'd say the only downer to the movie is that I wasn't very fond of the accents from Hugh Jackman (Mumble's father, Memphis) and Nicole Kidman (Mumble's mother, Norma Jean). A pair of Aussie's who really didn't pull off the Elvis/Marilyn Monroe-esque voices, imo. :)

Bill Myers -
Arthur Dent and Ford Prefect are in a restaurant, and the waiter wheels out a sentient pig

Digging out my copy of the book... it was definately the book version of Restaurant, but I think it's supposed to be a cow.

I love Zaphod's comment: "Better than eating an animal that doesn't want to be eaten".

I even liked the theme song to Enterprise. Do you hear me world? I LIKED THE THEME SONG!

My condolences. ;)

Luigi Novi -
Pop music is so dated that episodes will feel dated in just a decade.

Yep. This is one of the more interesting things that the cast of Red Dwarf discusses in the commentaries for the DVD's, about how many of the jokes have already become dated, even after only 10-15 years.

It's easier to incorporate anything from the past, if everybody knows what it is, rather than anything from the present.

While I wouldn't argue that they should have Riker and Worf grooving to Fergie and Nickelback or something, they should have more variety in the music on Star Trek. It's not like all of the music they have used will indesputably last forever, either - some of the lounge-singer music they had Vic sing on DS9 comes to mind. If nothing else, the Beatles will be around 300 years from now.

I agree with Luke. I'm not suggesting that the popular music in the Star Trek music will be identical to what is currently popular, or that Picard should start wearing thick gold chains and baseball caps. What I'm saying is that they have a very safe, conservative attitude toward music.

It's like what Bill said about everybody wearing he same costumes. It is reasonable to assume that, unless some appocalypse destroyed all musical recording after 1955, the Music in the future will be more diverse than lounge acts and classical music. And seriously, after 50 years of rock music and 25 years of hip hop, I think we can assume that these are not temporary fashions, and that the future will be so conservative as to erase any other kind of music from their life other than light jazz and classical music.

Also, I don't think this musical creative decision is the result of fear of becoming dated. I believe it is part of the general attitude of the show, this kind of clean cut, urbane, a little smug attitude of the Federation. In Star Trek VIII, First Contact, they prety much made fun of this attitude when the Star Trek crew cringed when Zephram Cochrane (spl?) listened to rock music inhis first flight. I don't think it made the movie dated. I think their attitude was funny.

PAD wrote:
"I always thought "Babylon 5" more than made up for that. Who can forget Vir and Londo writhing in agony when the technomages pumped Narn opera into Londo's quarters."

In that respect I think Babylon 5 was better. It's society was a little more complex, more tarnished. But DS9 went further than the other Star Treks in investigating civilian life, gambling, crime, sex and so forth. TNG was just very yuppi, and it does feel dated at times.

Posted by: Micha at November 25, 2006 02:16 PM

In Star Trek VIII, First Contact, they prety much made fun of this attitude when the Star Trek crew cringed when Zephram Cochrane (spl?) listened to rock music inhis first flight.

Perhaps. The way I interpreted it, however, was simply that the music was blaring at a painfully loud volume through the headphones Troi was listening through.

(I have deleted this posting because it contains major spoilers for an upcoming issue of FNSM that has not yet hit the stands, posted on a thread which is not about the title and has no spoiler warnings in the initial post. I consider it unfair to the fans. The poster is free to express his or her opinion on this title once the book is out on the stands and the appropriate thread is in place.)

(I have deleted this posting because it was in response to the one above.)

PAD

Man, I just canNOT stay out of trouble these days. :)

Kidding, of course. I fully understand your reason for deleting both posts. I had NO idea the issue in question hadn't hit the stands yet, and I know nothing about it other than what you've told us here and what Cizza revealed (assuming what he wrote was accurate). If I had known this issue wasn't yet "in play," I'd never have responded.

Boy, does it look ominous, seeing my name, and then this stark "(I have deleted this posting because it was in response to the one above.)" I've been censored by PAD!

(Again -- only kidding.)

"Picard didn't want anyone to see him slipping gold-pressed latinum into an Orion stripper's garter."

Well, it's not so much that, it's the pounding he got from the bouncers after the girl got the shivers from the latinum. It's metal money, man, and it gets cold! Throw a couple quarters in the fridge then throw 'em on Jeannie, see how SHE reacts.

"Don't forget Robotech and Roy's death."

I hang my head in anime shame. Although I'm not ashamed enough not to picture Lisa Hayes turning to him and saying, "You a pothead, Fokker?"

Bill, Jerry can have his opinion on Enterprise. It's a free country, he's allowed to be...wrong. (Kidding, Jerry, kidding! Don't start hunting ME now instead of Mike.)
On the theme song, um, issue: it wasn't bad. Tried playing it on my guitar. But it'll never give me chills like Goldsmith's or Williams's themes do.

Bill--part of it I think with the identical dress is expressing the loss of differenciality or individuality, but I think a big part of it also is not over-working the costume department. You've done movies, you know what it's like when you're crew is revolting. Actually, with your movies, most of your cast ends up revolting, but that's another issue.

Thanks, Marc. Some of the stuff that comes out of that kid's mouth, we look at each other and ask where the hell it comes from.

Micha, part of the problem with music in any of the Trek shows is that usually, it's background, as in, it's not what you're actually supposed to focus on. (Actually, the one time they showed Data with a guitar I wrote a scene where he's in the holodeck with Lennon, McCartney, Slash, and Per Gessle. It was a nothing scene, but it did give me the chance, when Data was having a problem with the one song, to have John Lennon say, "Don't worry, Data. You've got a fine piece of music here. All you have to do is give the piece a chance.") I mean, usually, you see these people working, not much time to kick back, throw in an isolinear chip and listen to whatever it is they listen to. Although, I always DID want to see a rock band in Ten-Forward.

And I think Bill got it right with the First Contact bit. After all, under the Geneva Conventions, Steppenwolf is one of the bands that it's an international crime, punishable by years of hard labor, to play less than a certain decibel.

Bill Myers, I always knew you were trouble.

Posted by Sean Scullion at November 25, 2006 06:36 PM

Throw a couple quarters in the fridge then throw 'em on Jeannie, see how SHE reacts.

Jeannie would like it on record that she is worth more than "a couple quarters." Far, far, far more.

I would like to add that I cannot put a price on her. She is priceless in every sense of the word.

And if I threw ice-cold quarters on her, it's be tantamount to signing my own death warrant.

"And if I threw ice-cold quarters on her, it's be tantamount to signing my own death warrant."

My point exactly! Only now, we may have inadvertantly given your nemesis a way to eliminate you. Crap.

Musically, I always got the feeling that some of it had to do with rights and what was easier to get a hold of.

Enterprise theme song: I think it's a song that would be great unplugged--one singer, acoustic guitar, and nothing else.

Black Friday story. A friend of mine at work is going to have her father, in Minnesota, go to a Best Buy at 6 in the morning tomorrow to try to get their kids a Wii. We're just outside Philadelphia, not a one to be had anywhere. What makes Minnesota different, I don't know. Now, all Irish and bathroom jokes aside, a sale would have to be DAMN good in order to get my butt to a store at 6 in the morning. Unless Brian looked up at me and said, "Daddy, I'd really like to have a Wii." Although, if I put out that much money for something that was Wii, it'd better be a diamond or something.

There should be a comic book where the characters are kids that can bend their parents to their will just by looking up and being cute. I can see it now, he lays in bed at night, talking to Joey Tribearani, his teddy bear, saying "We have to start planning for tomorrow night, Joey."
"Why, Brian? What are we going to do tomorrow night?"

"TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD! Now, look cute!"

There should be a comic book where the characters are kids that can bend their parents to their will just by looking up and being cute.

Art imitating real life, in other words...

-Rex Hondo=

Now my DH and I saw Happy Feet over the holiday and our complaint wasn't that it was sad in spots or that different species of penguins don't live that close together, or that there was a lot of "Why are you taking our fish?" stuff in it. We wondered - why in the heck didn't they get to use the tune, "Happy Feet"? I can remember Kermit the Frog dancing to it once upon a time. So why couldn't Mumble? (I still have to look up who wrote it and when...)

"Micha, part of the problem with music in any of the Trek shows is that usually, it's background, as in, it's not what you're actually supposed to focus on."
I wasn't talking about background music.

"(Actually, the one time they showed Data with a guitar I wrote a scene where he's in the holodeck with Lennon, McCartney, Slash, and Per Gessle. It was a nothing scene, but it did give me the chance, when Data was having a problem with the one song, to have John Lennon say, "Don't worry, Data. You've got a fine piece of music here. All you have to do is give the piece a chance.")"
Data played poker with Einstenin and Hawking on the holodeck, and interacted with Mark Twain, but the scene you wrote is very unlikely to appear in Star Trek. Why?

"I mean, usually, you see these people working, not much time to kick back, throw in an isolinear chip and listen to whatever it is they listen to."

Actually, TNG and DS9 and enterprise (I haven't seen Voyager) gave focus to the leisure of the crews. If you look at their leisure activities as a whole, it seems to me that they are in general a little yuppie.
For example:
Playing musical instruments -- trombone (jazz), violin (classical), flute, piano, guitar (accoustic, used for classical music I suspect).
reading mysteries (Picard, Data)
Klingon equivalent of Tai Chi
Vulcan equivalent of Shatsu
watching classical movies (Enterprise)
Squash (Dr. Bashir)
Kayaking
darts
baseball
earobics
poker
painting classes
Chess matches
sitting in Ten Forward listening the jazz or classical music.

Dax and Worf also fought and gambled, but these leisure activities were distinctly associated with the Klingon and Ferengi alien cultures.

"Although, I always DID want to see a rock band in Ten-Forward."
I believe that the the unlikelyhood of this happening reflects something of the tone of the Star Trek universe.
I also don't want you to get to focused on rock. They are equally unlikely to have country or folk or celtic music.

I think the director of First Contact used rock music as a recurring theme in order to to build the character of Zephram Cochrane, just as jazz is an recurring aspect of Riker;s persona, and Earl Grey of Picard's.

There's nothing wrong with these activities. And I am a fan of Star Trek. But I believe different shows and books and comics have different feels to them. And in the word\ld of sci-fi series, Star Trek is mineral water, squash and light jazz, not beer, bowling and rock.

All in all, as much as I like Star Trek, I always had a problem with its clean cut wholesome facade. DS9 is my favorite partially because it went beyond that by exploring civilian life.

I attended a lecture of a Trekie in a comic convention I attended (much smaller than in the US), in which the lecturer tried to explore the nature of the federation utopia -- they have no wars, but we're almost only familiar with a military organization, we know little of their economy. I found it quite interesting because I've been wondering about it for some time.

I think it would be interesting if the next show wil try to explore more the civiilan life of the 24 century instead of just going to the next enterprise (although that would also be interesting).

Ah damn, I've just heard that Dave Cockrum has passed away. My condolences to his family and friends.

While I do think a large part of it stems from licensing issues, logically, what place would rock or hip-hop have in a society such as the one presented in Star Trek?

Historically, rock music has largely been focused on rebellion. It was created to be anti-establishment, a tool of societal change. When poverty and hunger have been eliminated and war rarely hits home, what is there to really yell about?

One would also assume that "gang culture" is a thing of the past, at least within the Federation, so hip-hop ceases to exist by default.

Besides, one need not look even as far back as the original Star Trek to see how the music can date a show. Watch a couple of episodes of Buck Rogers and see how ridiculous "this is the music of the future" can be.

-Rex Hondo-

Rex, hip-hop is not inextricably linked to gang culture, nor did it spring from that culture. The word is believed to have its origins in the late 1970's, when rap is considered to have been born. It was created by some DJs in the Bronx who began isolating the percussion tracks from disco and funk songs.

Here are a couple of articles that delve a bit more into the origins of "rap" and "hip-hop:"

httNOTSPAMp://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761563537/Rap.html

httNOTSPAMp://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_762505912/Hip-Hop.html

(I had to "munge" the urls -- i.e. add some extraneous words -- to get this past the spam filter. If you want to follow the links, copy and paste them into your browser, and remove the phrase "NOTSPAM.")

It is undeniable that gang culture has embraced "hip-hop," but that doesn't mean they created it, nor does it mean that the two are inseparable.

Rex, hip-hop is not inextricably linked to gang culture, nor did it spring from that culture. The word is believed to have its origins in the late 1970's, when rap is considered to have been born. It was created by some DJs in the Bronx who began isolating the percussion tracks from disco and funk songs.

Here are a couple of articles that delve a bit more into the origins of "rap" and "hip-hop:"

encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761563537/Rap.html

encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_762505912/Hip-Hop.html

(I had to "munge" the urls to get this past the spam filter. If you want to follow the links, copy and paste them into your browser, add http:// to the beginning of each. "www" isn't necessary.)

It is undeniable that gang culture has embraced "hip-hop," but that doesn't mean they created it, nor does it mean that the two are inseparable.

Oh, and one other thing: watch a couple of episodes of "Buck Rogers in the 25th Century" and you'll see how ridiculous "Buck Rogers in the 25th Century" can be. ;)

"Historically, rock music has largely been focused on rebellion."

Yeah, But haven't you ever seen kids who have evrything launch into their own little rebellion for that very reason? They're bored with having everything and being given everything and find a reason to go nuts.

Besides, lots of rock is fun as hell without the rebellion. Give me some burnig riffs and some killer heavy percussion and I'm a happy little camper.

"...hip-hop ceases to exist by default."

Not really. Some of the violent hip-hop might go away, but you would still have people using it as a story telling device or for the style.

Rapper's Delight was the first really huge rap hit (in more ways then one) and it was fluffy fun. Will Smith made his mark with funny raps. The style and the general sound of rap can be enjoyed quite well without all the violent crap.

Posted by Sean Scullion

I grew up on Star Blazers and Battle of the Planets. People die on those shows.

Not nearly so many nor so messily as in the orginal Japanese versions.

I remember an episode of one "sanitised for American Teevee" series in which the Heroic Teenage Officer and the Tough Old Gunny Sergeant character lead ten or twelve Red Shirted Marines into battle against heavy enemy fire - next scene, no intervening action seen, HTO and TOGS are alone and pinned down, and HTO has a large section of his uniform on the left shoulder very obviously dry-cleaned and badly "invisibly mended" on the fly by USAian animators.

Posted by Luigi Novi

As far as using anything other than classical music, Trek isn't being snobby or formal; it's being smart. Pop music is so dated that episodes will feel dated in just a decade.

Depends on whether you're using it as incidental music (that is, music the characters are listening to) or soundtrack music.

It is definitely a mistake to tie the soundtrack (of most films) to the pop music of that exact moment. (The exception being a film about music in some way - Get Crazy!, for instance.)

As to incidental music - i'll guarantee you it's a mistake to use "contemporary" incidental music composed specifically for the film by anyone employed by the studio. Hiring someone who's in the pop music field might work, but won't if who you're hiring is one of the flavour-of-the-week composers - that is, your music is much more likely to still sound tolerable when the film is viewed twenty years later if you've got someone like an Elton John or a Mark Knopfler or Richard Thompson (to pick three at random who have done film music) than if you hire whoever writes stuff for Britney Spears.

Another possibility for both soundtrack and incidental music appears if your entertainment is set sufficiently far in the past - the teevee show Crime Story used pop music heavily - but it was the actual pop music of twenty years earlier, when the show was set, and Al Kooper (i think) was handling the music production chores.

{That'll Be the Day and Stardust, two films about a Lennon-esque musician, set during the English Invasion period, mined the rock/pop of that era extensively and well - to the extent that the Soundtrack albums for the two films are alomst a necessity for some fans of the era. (The band in the second film also featured Dave Edmunds and Keith Moon among others, actually played ther own music, and Edmunds put the band together and wrote their songs and produced their music...)}

Bill Myers: Oh, and one other thing: watch a couple of episodes of "Buck Rogers in the 25th Century" and you'll see how ridiculous "Buck Rogers in the 25th Century" can be. ;)

Man, why you gotta be a hater? ;)

Jerry C: Yeah, But haven't you ever seen kids who have evrything launch into their own little rebellion for that very reason? They're bored with having everything and being given everything and find a reason to go nuts.

Which is, essentially, a capsule summary of "The Way to Eden." God only knows why they wouldn't want to make another one of those. ;)

As to the origins of hip-hip, I stand corrected. Though, I still see (or hear) little substantive difference between most rap, hip-hop, or what they're trying to pass off as R&B these days. Not wanting to get into a musical debate, however, I'll just let that point go...

Still, I think the ungodly licensing fees are where the truth lies, the very same reason we will probably never see WKRP on DVD. Given the choices of paying obscene amounts for actual rock, creating their own "future rock" that would inevitably suck (see aforementioned Buck Rogers and space-hippies), or just leaving it out, leaving it out altogether is probably the best choice.

I don't think it's entirely fair, either, to accuse the Trek folks of being unrelentingly stuffy. On Enterprise NX-1, "The Court Jester" and "The Exorcist" are hardly froofroo arthouse pieces. Picard regularly indulges in playing a seedy pulp detective on the holodeck, for example, and later series' show (or at least mention) scenarios just as cathartic. A Las Vegas night club, the Battle of Britain, barbarian warfare, Captain Proton, and "James Bond with the names changed so we don't get sued."

Besides, even if there are the more "rebellious" entertainments offered, the only youths as main characters were Wesley Crusher (Who wanted nothing more than to be in Starfleet until season 6 or 7) and Jake Sisko (Who rebelled by going into journalism instead of Starfleet.)

True it would've been nifty to see Data learning guitar from Clapton or Riker listening to a little Chicago or, heck, Worf discovering hardcore gangsta rap would've been a hoot for a minute. But it would have been prohibitively expensive, and I just don't know if it would have really added that much to the characters.

Well, except maybe Data playing "Layla" in an effort to understand unrequited desire...

-Rex Hondo-

well this entry has gone off in a billion directions so i don't feel too bad for asking a kinda non-sequiter question.

Speaking of best movies seen all year, I watched stranger than fiction last week and thought it was the best movie i'd seen all year. i was curious if you'd seen it peter, and what you thought of it if you had.

Lol. Wow this is very said. I have wanted to see this movie sense June. Just before the file was released on Nov 17th I hard heard about its agenda. While I think that it may not be the best movie to use for the agenda I still think it was good. After seeing the file I Googled “Happy Feet Controversy” only to find these random idiotic reviews. Yes it was in fact a kids movie, but maybe Hollywood feels that sense adult are to ignorance to the obvious that it may help to target kid so that there may be a future for other species on the earth besides humans. I read on one reviews that a mom decided to take her kids to the zoo instead of seeing the movie. Yes because that penguins at the zoo love being there so much. I found that to be so sad that she wants to harbor her kids from seeing this movie for a reason that is the truth. I did not like the movie as much as much as I hoped to but it was not that bad.

If anyone has seen March of The Penguins then you know that there is a shortage of fish in areas where Penguins live…. And what happened after the movie. They stopped finishing in those areas.

Face it HollyWood it probably the strongest weapon that people have to get a message across. So to get that message out there Mom and dads drive there gas hogging SUVs to the movie and stop on at McDonals on the way to help there kids become more obease and the spend 50-75 bucks at the theater to watch this movies and then get mad that there’s a message. I’m not a environmentalist or a Liberal or a Republican or a Democrat. I my self am studying to become a film director. The fact of the matter is the message came form logic. People get mad when someone trys to tell them something they don’t want to hear. So holly wood put it right inform of there faces. But this is America more and more messages will come and more people will be the sophisticated human beings we so called are and try to argue against fact with ridiculess accusations. It’s a sad world and country we all live in. But people feen off drama and to talk about thing they can not control. Sooner or later parent cant harbor there kids form this stuff. Why do you think messages are in movies or thing that kids enjoy, they are the only hope for the future?

jonny914