PeterDavid.net

We also called it on how Petrelli would survive...

I have to agree with you on the narrative, I have zoned it out in nearly every episode. I also missed Hiro, but I can understand the absence. I can't wait for next week.

By the way, that beginning narration by Mohinder which you don't like -- if you think it's detrimental, then perhaps it's a Mohindrance.

Also agree on the narration, zzzzzz....
Yes, we knew Peter would survive with Claire's powers, but being arrested for the other girl's murder was a nice twist.
I thought the cliffhanger with Jessica taking a sniper shot at DL was lame. Of course he will see the muzzle flash and use his Black Pryde powers to let the bullet pass through him.
(See, he's black and has Kitty Pryde powers, so I call him Black Pryde, it's like the Cheerverine thing:-}

"By the way, that beginning narration by Mohinder which you don't like -- if you think it's detrimental, then perhaps it's a Mohindrance."

Ouch! I can't take this punishment!

Now, will Peter use Sylar's powers for a prison breakout? And whatever happened to Radioactive Man; is he the one that's going to have the New York melt down? I see shades of "Don't make me angry. You won't like me when I'm angry." This may be foreshadowed by the brief glimpse of the firey person glimpsed in the latest Heroinscope Painting.

Ever since last week I've had this crazy notion that Nathan Petrelli was Syler (or is it Cyler? Or is he one if the remaining Cylons?). I don't know why, and I don't really think it would make sense unless they did the whole "he has another personality" thing, but I've been trying to figure out why they are so keen on *not* showing his face. Yeah, I guess it's to make it more suspenseful and him more dangerous, but it also seems like at some point there will be a reveal at a critical time, and everyone will go "Holy Crap, *that* guy is Syler?" and it will take everyone by surprise when he starts flippin' lids. That was what I was really ready for, the Syler reveal, which I guess is next week before the break (according to the entertainment weekly).

Yes, I believe you hit the nail on the head about the absence of Hiro being a negative. The character is engaging and charming in both his determination to stick to his ethical compass and also his infectious sense of wonder as he makes his way across the US. I was really liking the interchange between him and the waitress and hope she‘ll be back.

The whole storyline with the Niki mystefies me. If she’s a villain fine, let’s get to it already. She’s racking up quite the body count so far and it doesn’t seem like it matters.

Overall, I’m enjoying the show and it has become one of those things I make sure to catch. I just hope they haven’t killed some of the suspense by giving it all away when it comes to Sylar (which is what the next episode appears to be about).

We missed Hiro too as he's our favorite- and from the talk around the water he's everyone's favorite.

I think my boyfriend is the ONLY one who didn't see Peter surviving because of meeting up with Claire coming. (Oh I thought him being arrested for the murder and interesting twist too.) Peter's my second favorite character and can't wait to see how he develops. My guess he's gonna step up us leader of the Heroes soon enough.

Peter needs a new love interest. Every time he shares a scene with Simone I think, "Yeah, she's not for you." My guess is she's wearing the red shirt. Expect her to die tragically to add some motivation to his character.

I'm glad Mohinderence is finally getting it together. (How sexy is he, btw?!) Perhaps he'll eventually step up as the father figure, as PAD mentioned earlier, that every good mulit-cast show needs.

I bet the killing off of Jackie the other cheerleader, is the creaters of this show getting some digs for retribution from high school days! Wonder who the now dead Jackie was based on? Bet the creator and/or writers had a bit of fun killing her off- however sadistic it was! (Perks of being a fiction writer ay?)

So we finally get a glimpse of Sylar. I still think that he's ultimately not the big bad in this show. Shadow government agency will probably fill those shoes.

As I suspected, the chick working with Ambiguous Dad who caught up with Sylar after the killing does indeed have the power of suggestion powers ala Professor X. What I wouldn't give for THAT one!

Wasn't so disappointed about not seeing Nikki/Jessica as much. For some reason I'm not as hepped up about her, although I do like DL and Smartboy. (Looks like next ep we see how her personality split- as mentioned before she's seems to be classic MPD.)

Also didn't miss Isaac, precog paintboy, as much. They need to keep him off the smack so they can develop his character more.

Eh that was supposed to be "talk around the water cooler"!

Oh about Sylar, rumer has it they were looking for a big name to play sylar, that's why we didn't see his face until now ...

Black Pryde? Umm...

They really ought to spin Hiro off into his own show. I'm losing interest in the other characters except, perhaps, Peter even though he's a little too earnest and plucky for me.

On the narrative: Yeah, I agree. It's not horrible, it just doesn't add much.

It reminds me of caption boxes in comics. They're getting overdone, depending on the author. Like in the new JLA series they're being used in every page (I think every panel) by almost every character. It's not even really the characters' thoughts, it's the characters' *reflections* about their thoughts. There's so much introspection that the story slows to a crawl.

I actually read almost all of Identity Crisis (same author) without reading any of the captions. It sped up the book tremendously, and I really think it was a better book for it. I started doing that kind of thing when I read through the "Our Worlds at World" gigantic trade paperback collection recently. So many of those issues had quotes from famous speeches, and they didn't add much. The action tells the story, having captions try and frame it for me again and again and again got annoying, so I just stopped reading them.

Could be SPOILERS, BEWARE!

Of course every comicbook fan knew he would survive, but if you watched, you had to have seen Peter had no idea he would. He did not know Claire's abilities, he does not even know how or when his power kicks in. What I was watching, knowing that as long as he was near Claire he was safe, was whether he would display two absorbed powers at the same time. I see him as Synch, and if I remember, it was being built up that that character could have multiple use abilities, but no at first. Peter has a totally automatic power.

I agree that the Radiation guy is the bomb. I wonder if Syler takes his head and that makes it go BOOM. This was heavily implied in the FBI arrest scenes. I think that in the end Peter might be the one to stop the apocolypse. He might be able to use multiple powers.

What at the white "Purlpe Girl" and her demeanor. I think she has shades of Mystique. Maybe she is running her own game. She did not go after Syler until after the attack. She was ordered to go in and stop him.

Hiro was absent for this reason I think. We were suppose to watch his friend as the sidekick. I think that somehow Hiro will screw up this do over. We might even have to re-save the cheerleader. I can see the side kick (whose name I am blanking on) sacrificing himself to aid and even save Hiro (and others), there by giving Hiro the added incentive to be more serious about his powers.

I am digging the Jessica/Niki story. Love the Black Pryde tag. I see his being the criminal turned hero, but Jessica is a big question mark. And who else saw the kid having powers, raise hand. I just love this side story.

Nathan is such a heel. I think he is going to be part of the problem in days to come.

Thank you for letting me vent. I have no one to talk about this with.

I agree with you about Peter - I knew exactly how he would survive. But EVERY day I talk to people about heroes and they don't understand Peter's powers. I have to explain it to them slowly. "Can he fly or draw the future? Which? Both?"

So I think a lot of people who aren't comic book fans, even after his little "I sorta...absorb other people's powers" will be confused as to how he survived.

Oh, it's pretty clear that Sylar is going to be small potatoes in the big scheme of things. He doesn't have the gravitas to be a world changer and all that.

On the other hand, Sylar is very much a threat on the personal level. People can UNDERSTAND his menance on a visceral and immediate level. That's something that might get lost if you "move to the next level" so to speak.

Okay, Peter Petrelli survived. You must be more comic-geeky than I. I thought it would play out like this: Claire learns of Peter's power - post-mortem, from an incidental remark by his increasingly creepy Congressman brother - and suffering intense guilt for NOT being present when he died.

And need I point out, at this point, she doesn't know why he can heal himself? Maybe she thinks he has the same power she does; he didn't have time to tell her about his power-duplication ability. Even worse, she might somehow have the idea that SHE now has the ability to heal other people, and she may tragically attempt to do it on some normal human.

Worst of all, she is on the verge of telling Dad that she's a freak, and his CIA masters are going to force him to wipe out her mind by Scary Black Man, or put her in the same concentration camp where all the other empowered people are being held. (You don't build an operation as complex as this unless you're going to have a Final Solution. And Dad DID send the artist back into addiction, which means he IS as ruthless a bastard as I feared.)

Peter getting arrested was a good twist but was necessary for him to meet Matt (I think that's his name; the police guy working for the FBI that can read thoughts).

Possible Spoiler???

I can't help but thinking and maybe I'm crazy to think this...but maybe they were supposed to save the OTHER cheerleader (the one that died). Hiro never did actually say which cheerleader. Maybe events in last nights episode went as they had always gone? HMMM. I don't know. It just makes you think though. This could possibly be a big spoiler and big twist... HMMM.

DF2506
" Ya, I know, I'm crazy. All the paintings were about Claire. So it would have to be her they were supposed to save...right? "

Hiro isn't my favorite character, he's my second favorite. The cop guy/mind reader is my favorite. This episode sorely lacked both of my favorite characters.
The unfortunate thing is that I really don't care for Nikki/Jessica and that's the storyline it seems the writers really love exploring right now.
the biggest difference between heroes and lost right now is that I’m entranced by every single character in lost while in heroes there's still quite a few characters I still haven't made that connection with. One can only hope that it's just that I haven't had enough time to warm up to the characters and not a deficit in the writing.

"I can't help but thinking and maybe I'm crazy to think this...but maybe they were supposed to save the OTHER cheerleader (the one that died)."

Kathleen had the exact same notion. Hiro never specified. What if Peter actually failed in his mission?

PAD

Did they really save the Cheerleader? She is still in the clutches of her adoptive father, who's motives and goals remain unclear. Perhaps she does need even more saveing before the season is over. While I also apreciate the joy Hiro takes at his role, I hope the writers don't use his abilities to get them out of plot holes they may write themselves into. Otherwise, we might see a Bill and Ted like episode - "okay, I must remember to come back and drop the trashcan over Sylar's head."

"Black Pryde" --- AWESOME!

I've been reading the interviews with some of the writers that CBR does, and they point out that sometimes people read too much in to what's going on. The retcon and stetcon of Daddy Surresh was just a production hiccup, Claire's changing school mascot was just a change in shooting location after promo pix.

Saving snobby cheerleader girl wasn't the goal. It's overthinking to think it could be. If Peter hadn't shown up, Sylar kills Claire after he sees she's the one with the powers. Peter instead shows up and distracts Sylar long enough for her to be ok.

Yes, it was obvious that Peter would survive by mimicking Claire's powers. I thought it was also obvious that snobby cheerleader would get killed by mistake. They did everything they could to get us to really hate her by the time she buys it.

The point isn't we know Peter would survive..it's that he didn't know, yet he still went to save Claire. It's that Nathan tried to protect his brother by destroying the painting. It's that Peter tells Ando that even though he might be killed, he has to go and try (that's likely a REALLY important scene for Ando's heroic journey).

In other news, George Takai has been cast as Hiro's father.

Chris Grillo: ooooh, good theory re: Matt/Peter. I was not liking that plot development, til you mentioned that.

Am I the only why who made the connection that Claire's powers were only how Peter was going to survive? The why was because he had to survive for Future Hiro to know him and comment on his scar.

Also, Isaac's most recent painting isn't the first time nuclear guy has shown up in a full meltdown. He was also on the cover of the kid's (name is escaping me at the moment) issue of 9th Wonders.

-Rex Hondo-

>like the climax of Star Trek II, only she has the endurance to handle unfettered radiation to get to wherever the shut-off switch is

No. Hiro does, too. He just 'steps out of time' until he gets the job done and thus avoids harm. He was able to avoid getting hurt by the exploding gas tank that way, for example.

I'm glad the theory of the girl having powers of suggestion was shown to be so, because otherwise I was quite disappointed in the lack of reason by the scientist's son in just accepting her in spite of knowing Evil Things Were Afoot.

About Peter ... so OK, being close to Cheerverine gave him her regenerative powers. So, why weren't they replaced with Syler's when they were grabbing each other? Either the power he grabs stays put for a relatively fixed amount of time and can't be overriden by another, or he can grab more than one at a time, but never thought of using Syler's against him. For example, as I watched the confrontation in the corridor, I noted the electric sign close behind Syler. Hmmm, I thought to myself, TK the wires off it and give the jerk a good jolt of AC current. Hints have been given that Syler's telekinetics should be strong enough to allow Peter to do that. Hiro has got to get him to read comic books so as to learn tactics to go with the abilities he can absorb.

As for DL seeing the muzzle flash, even if he does, it is VERY unlikely he could protect himself. A high powered rifle bullet travels awfully fast. By the very limited time his brain has made the connection between "flash = harm", the slug should already be going through his braincase. More likely is that an afternoon at a shooting range won't give her sufficient experience with an unfamiliar weapon at a live target. She'll probably miss.

I, too, hope Hiro does save the waitress and that she joins the group. Shades of Mack Reynolds' 'Department H' stories: she could be the team's ambulatory reference library. No batteries or Internet connection required.

Starwolf:

Peter also has the ability to survive, after standing next to Claire and several others before rushing in to save the day during May Sweeps.

As you point out, Just cuz Peter might have a power, doesn't mean he knows how to use it...or that he even knows that he has it. "Detection" doesn't seem to be an ability he has.

Sylar has done nothing that can't be explained by a single power, telekinesis. He used it to throw the lockers at Peter. He used it to cushion his fall, and he used it to rip open Jackie's head. A laser would cauterize a wound...and from the blood, we can tell it wasn't cauterized.

Peter seems to be a bit of a wild card. His name wasn't on Suresh's list. (We saw this when Mohinder came looking for Nathan, but not Peter, and on the computer screen, you can see Nathan listed, but Peter isn't next to him.)

For whatever reason, Hiro isn't able to save the waitress. We know she's still dead. If I were to guess, Future Hiro shows up and tells him he can't do it, that's why he leaves. It's crap sci-fi writing, but it's visually and viscerally interesting.

Starwolf,

Why do you assume the D.L. is going to survive being shot at by Jessica? The guy playing him is not a regular cast member, so he doesn't have a contract providing incentive to keep him alive. Jessica has shown that she has little to no problem with killing someone if it's to her advantage. And the interactions between Niki and her alter-ego could get very interesting and complex if Niki knew that her other self had killed her husband. It would also toss some really interesting kinks into her relationship with Micah.

Cutting a broad stroke of let's suppose:

Assuming DL IS going to survive the bullet, Wasn't he and boy outside the diner where Hiro disappeared? Perhaps our erstwhile Hero Hiro will be there to push him out of the path of the bullet ...

The one thing I liked about the lack of Hiro is the affect it had on Ando. I liked him saying that without Hiro, he's nothing special. I think it sets up some growth for Ando later on. With Hiro getting 6 months of English practice in (assuming he didn't jump forward again after the jump 6 months back), Hiro won't even need Ando as a translater anymore.

I am a little worried that Hiro won't be the same after his 6 months, though. I'd hate for him to mature *too* much.

When Claire was made homecoming queen, I burst out laughing, and told my wife, "The freaks and geeks elected her!" way before Claire's friend told her how she won.

I want to know who Linderman(sic) is. Is he Claire's father? Is he behind what might happen in NYC?

I don't know anyone who doesn't like Hiro. I think he is us; the geek who would love to have superpowers, and applies the Ben Parker Law(tm) to use them. Can't wait for Peter and Hiro to meet again for the first time.

Agreed with everything you said, especially the part about the opening and closing narration. The guy's got a great voice, but the words they have him reciting are so histrionic and meaningless that I don't even pay attention anymore.

There's a bit of an internal logic problem with Takei being cast as Hiro's father; Hiro's mentioned Star Trek. So does he think his father looks a *lot* like Sulu, or what? :-)

I think the reason that so many people missed Hiro is because he's the one character who is unabashedly excited about the notion of being a superhero, and I certainly find that enthusiasm to be very infectious.

It's probably not too surprising that so many people on this site would have made the Peter-cheerleader-absorbing-power connection, since I assume so many of us grew up with comic books, so the Rogue/Wolverine comparison was probably an easy one to make. But I think it was the extra bits, such as Peter pulling his bones back into alignment that really made the sequence work and even gave it a bit of tension-reducing humor.

I've got to say, Heroes is still the series that I look forward to the most every week. And with guest stars such as George Takei and Christopher Eccleston reportedly appearing in January, the coolness factor certainly sounds as though it's going to continue for a good long time.

"I was really liking the interchange between him and the waitress and hope she‘ll be back."

Yes! With just one appearance, she became my favorite character, so I was pissed when she died, but pleased when Hiro went back to try to save her. Screw the cheerleader, save the waitress!

"The whole storyline with the Niki mystefies me."

Agreed. Well, it doesn't mystify me so much as bore me. Thankfully, she's a lot more interesting and watchable as Jessica. Nikki does nothing but look harried and distressed all the time, and she bores the crap out of me. This is partly why I've been enjoying the series more the past few weeks -- no Nikki (or at least, very little of her). After that one episode that was basically all about her, I was considering giving up on the show. I'm glad I didn't.

Posted by: Scavenger

A laser would cauterize a wound...and from the blood, we can tell it wasn't cauterized.

Actually, quite possibly not. A laser of sufficient power to be a reliable weapon is more likely to effectively cause the target to "explode" due to the sudden huge transfer of energy to it.

(Granted, this is "iffy" in a handgun sized unit - if one could be built that would be powerful enough at all - however, even then, the dynamics of the situation would probably result in not getting a cauterising effect.)

A truly powerful laser hit would actually be more like a a direct hit from Thor's hammer than a flame burst from the Human Torch -- in fact, a powerful lser would be a lot like Cyclops' eyebeams have generally been portrayed, come to think.

(Another thing, given the fact that energy conversion eficiency of lasers isn't all that great so far, handgun type weapons lasers are a way off if ever - imagine firing a gun {of any type} that loses 10% of the power used to drive the bullet or beam back at you as heat...)

I have to wonder, is Sylar's telekinetic ability sufficiently refined to allow him to arrest molecular motion, freezing victims when he feels like it, or does he have a partner we haven't met yet?

-Rex Hondo-

Had the same thought re: did Peter really fail? Gives the writers an extra twist down the line if they need it, I guess.

I was surprised by the bloodiness of Sylar's attack scene. Kinda gory for network TV.

I agree with Jason Bryant. I like Hiro, but I'm also really getting to like Ando, and it was kinda poignant to see him left so rudderless this episode. It's been a smart move to keep him around as a character after the pilot. And Hiro's absence for most of the episode made the closing that much sweeter.

And I agree with PAD about the opening/closing narration. It's got to start adding something to the episode, or it's got to go.

>Peter also has the ability to survive, after standing next to Claire and several others before rushing in to save the day during May Sweeps.

Assuming he CAN grab more than one power at a time. We don't know that. We also don't know how long his borrowed powers last away from the source. Too many imponderables. But, yes, it just shows that Cheerverine isn't the only one.

>Why do you assume the D.L. is going to survive being shot at by Jessica?

I'm merely replying to those who seemed to think he would. It's not a given either way.

>Sylar has done nothing that can't be explained by a single power, telekinesis ... He used it to cushion his fall ...

Depends which version of telekinetics you're using. Most of them have levitation as a separate ability. Also, he does seem pretty good at ferreting out 'specials'. Does he have the same mutant-finding power Caliban did in the X-Men comic? That's not TK based.

Sylar had dealings with Mohinder's Dad. He might not be using powers to find the other specials, he might just have a list.

You know what I'd like to see? The Cheerleader escape from a jail cell by having a fellow inmate stomp on her until she can smoosh through the bars. I'm funny that way.

Posted by: Scavenger I thought it was also obvious that snobby cheerleader would get killed by mistake. They did everything they could to get us to really hate her by the time she buys it.

Yeah, but I thought it was a great touch that even after proving to be the queen bitch, her last words to Claire was to run.

Sylar had dealings with Mohinder's Dad. He might not be using powers to find the other specials, he might just have a list.

I thought it was shown that he DID have a list...and it was more complete than the one Mohinder first had....

And if so, that doesn't take a special power to find "heroes", just an ability to read and put 2+2 together (which, admittedly, puts Sylar above 90% of the American populace....).

OK, missed that scene - Syler with Mohinder's dad/list. Of course this then also begs the question of how this lunatic knew about Mohinder's dad being in America. Did the latter look him up?

"Smartboy" does have powers...remember him fixing the phone by laying hands on it? And we've seen him tinker too...He is a "Forge"

I am seeing Claires father develop into some kind of Nick Fury... A secretive ruthless bastard but on the angel's side. Sort of. A really bad guy would have killed his daughter's rapist.

And as for the nice, warm, charming "memory-waitress" I frankly hope she doesnt come back. Its too soon for Heroes to be like the Marvel Universe.

Tom: Studio 60 has the same meta-paradox problem with Jack quoting Lou Grant from MTM to Jordan, while Ed Asner plays the network ceo.

Starwolf: Going meta, if Peter can't combine powers, than he doesn't serve much point. There doesn't seem to be power combos no flight +strength, claws + healing...so you have someone who can combine them (When Hiro was saving BlackPryde from the exploding car, he hints at this, I think).

Sylar doesn't seem to have a paranormal detection power. He has a list/map. He didn't detect Hiro...or at least go after him...in the diner, and he didn't know that Claire was the one with powers til he saw her heal.

Niki does bore me too. Peter bores me by himself. Peter with Hiro? Gold. Peter with Claire? Gold. Peter with Niki? A black hole of boredom that will suck in NBC's entire lineup.

El Hombre: Waitress is still dead in Ando's time, even though Hiro had been with her 6 months ago. As I said above, I'm thinking Future Hiro stops him from saving her.

For Clare's father, I'm currently likening him more towards Cable ala X-Force era...ruthless, ends justify the means, but generally speaking, good. As opposed to Mohinder's more touchy feely Xavier vibe.

Memory Waitress kind of got a raw deal on powers, though. Photographic memory sounds great, I wouldn't mind having it. It's just not that super since we already have people with photographic memory.

Regardless, she should live for one simple reason: she's ridiculously cute. :)

Robert Fuller: Screw the cheerleader, save the waitress.

I LOVE it!

The kind of photographic memory people have these days have nothing to do with MemoryWaitress' (I kinda like the name... there's a waitress who never lose your order). She learns languajes in minutes, so Id say shes a bit like Doug Ramsey on steroids.

Is this a complete list of who we've seen so far?

Nathan - flyer
Peter - mimic (Mimic)
Isaac - precog (Destiny)
Claire - regenerator (Wolverine)
Hiro - manipulates space/time
Niki - MPD bad ass (Badger?)
Micah - tinkerer(?) (Forge)
DL - phaser (Shadowcat)
Matt - telepath (Prof X (but reads only, no writes))
Charlie - memorizer
Haitian - de-memorizer
Eden - pusher (Kilgrave)
Sylar - telekinetic(?)
Soccer Boy - dream walker??
Mohinder - cure for insomnia

"She learns languajes in minutes, so Id say shes a bit like Doug Ramsey on steroids."

She learned the words that she knew in minutes, not the whole language. We don't even know how many minutes, we just know that she read a book in the past and Hiro worked with her for a little while. She's on the upper limits of what I've seen humans do, but I have seen documentaries about people who could do everything we saw her do.

So really cool and useful, but not something that would ever make people think "super powers" without the presence of other supers.

Still super cute, though. :)

"Charlie - memorizer
Haitian - de-memorizer"

Oooh, nice catch, Sean. Would Charlie be immune to him?

BTW, I think of the Haitian as The Mind Taker and the black haired girl (who's also really cute) as The Voice.

Whatever this mutation is, it's pretty narrowly focused on the good looking and well groomed section of humanity. Other than radiation guy. Oh, you forgot radiation guy, Sean.

Oh, right. Radiation guy. Thanks! Adding

Ted - radioactive

makes 16.

As for Charlie vs Haitian, I don't think she'd be immune. He could wipe her as easily as anyone else, I expect. Doesn't matter how much I have on my hard drive, it all wipes the same.

(I remember a short story once where a man developed perfect memory. Took him a while to sort and file all the things disparate things he knew, but once he had he was atoundingly good at putting all those little bits together and realizing what was really going on around him. Which got him in trouble with some unpleasant types who threatened him with a drug that caused memory loss. From remembering all to amnesiac. Ow.)

Okay, if the Cheerleader is "Cheerverine"-- does that make the Painter "Super-Heroin"?

"Screw the cheerleader, save the waitress.

I LOVE it!"

Huh. When taken out of context, that does take on a whole new meaning. I'm not sure how having sex with Claire would save the waitress, but it is a bit more thought-provoking (and amusing) than "save the cheerleader, save the world." I think I'm onto something.

First three things: Everyone have a safe and happy thanksgiving. 2) I did see the thing with Peter getting close to Clare would save him. 3) Thanks for mentioning Hanible Lecter, did you know the new book about him is coming out?
Sean, I agree with you except on Niki. She's not Badger. With the memory loss, bad temper, and strength, She's the Hulk.
Granted, she dosen't turn green and rip off her clothes (God knows we wish she would:))But I think of her more like the Hulk.

I can't take Peter at all seriously because, with the way he speaks and acts with only one side of his mouth (though maybe the actor has Bell's Palsy?), and that dopey haircut, all I see is Adam Sandler's Little Nicky character.

Oh, one more thing, Peter, you are so right: FOX would have put it on a bad night. Thank God NBC took a chance and put it on a prime night on a prime time slot.

Cheerverine's name is Claire Bennett. This makes her Benverine.

Thank you.

I think I speak for all comic book fans when I say: Peter using Claire's power to survive his apparent death -- saw it coming.

Of course, just because Peter can mimic a power doesn't mean he can use it. Peter was able to heal because, well, healing happens naturally. But Peter couldn't just start flying even when around his brother (he just sorta walked on air), and when future Hiro visited him, Peter didn't immediately start teleporting and/or jumping through time. If Syler/Cyler/that bad guy is some sort of ubertelekinetic, it's unlikely Peter could master that power immediately.

As for Hiro, it was disappointing to see him miss the first real fight of the series. Maybe he'll come back with a sword...

And don't discount the waitress (if Hiro saves her). If she realizes her incredible learning ability (it seems like more than just a photogrpahic memory), just think what she could do with reading some books on mechanics and physics!

The one thing I was pleased to see here is that D.L., although he can move through solid stuff, is not the shaved-head black guy who can stick his hands in people's heads to make their memories go away. That was a (probably deliberately) confusing point. And that HRG's assistant has the Power of Suggestion is interesting, although with eyes that big she should have a death ray, y'know?

I'll miss Google Girl, she reminded me of the Jordan character from Real Genius. Unfortunately, I think that Hiro failing to rescue her will be important to (a) demonstrate that the past is immutable, and (b) teach him that sometimes he will fail.

I can't take Peter at all seriously because, with the way he speaks and acts with only one side of his mouth (though maybe the actor has Bell's Palsy?), and that dopey haircut, all I see is Adam Sandler's Little Nicky character.

He does have a paralysed nerve that causes it to droop Stallone has the same thing apparently.

As for Charlie, do we know that Charlie still died coming in to day or did Hiro finding no way to save her into the past pulled her into the future

A couple of the above posters mentioned Claire's dad working for Gov't. Has that been offically stated somewhere?

If not, I think we have 3 possibilities for Dad and co.

A) Gov't. They're watching, catagorizing, using, etc.
B) Watchers (either Highlander or Buffy style) Watching, collecting data, manipulating, etc.
C) Hydra. They're an evil organization. Though, I'd have to say that their much more patient and calculating than comic book evil empires, if that's the case.

(BTW, someone thought that Dad being ruthless by forcing Heroin Guy to use Heroin was a sign; I'm not so sure. Dad's (especially ones with power) can probably do a lot to "ruthless" things to protect their daughters, without it being a sign of innate evilness.)

Do we know for sure that the waitress still died the same way after Hiro travelled back, or is she just missing and presumed dead? Or maybe they decided the best way to save her was to fake her death.

Or maybe she's just dead...

-Rex Hondo-

'Mohinderence'? 'Black Pryde'!?
grooooan ^_^

Love the show, Heroes rocks. I kinda hope they do keep the Niki/Jessica arc separate from the main arc, it'd be a nice touch and would help avoid dragging hte rest of the story down.

Heroes is probably the closest we'll ever get to a "Wild Cards" TV show/Movie.

Although without the FCC censorship evil, HBO could probably do a great "wild Cards" series. Just need to cast it.... gotta have Popinjay, but who to play him...

And Croyd could be played by a different person everytime he shows up :)

Gotta bring back Demise tho, favorite bad guy, next to Spike...

"Do we know for sure that the waitress still died the same way after Hiro travelled back, or is she just missing and presumed dead? Or maybe they decided the best way to save her was to fake her death.
Or maybe she's just dead...
-Rex Hondo-"

Or maybe she dies another way, the timeline tends to heal itself and all that jive. Maybe she's like Cassie form that Season 7 Buffy episode, gonna die no matter what...

If Peter absorbs Hiro's power and time travels without Hiro, then would he be lost in time?

Hmmmmmm.......

I call the waitress Google Girl myself.

"Or maybe she dies another way, the timeline tends to heal itself and all that jive. "

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. By that logic, stopping the nuclear blast won't do any good because something else would kill those millions of people. That would make everything they're building towards pointless.

If they make some distinction between changing the future and changing the past, then I'll lose some respect for the show. I hate it when shows justify major plot holes with such arbitrary distinctions.

The Reed Richards explanation of time travel is that, when you go back in the past and make a change, it results in a divergent time track being created which continues on from the change while you return to the original track downstream. The future, on the other paw, sees you continuing on the changed path - since that future hadn't yet happened in your subjective time line - while a possible alternate time line is created where it still happens. So it is quite possible - if you buy that pseudo-science - for a time traveller to alter his subjective future, but not his subjective past.

Not to become "Mr List" (Ack! My fanboy is showing!) but I find it nice to get these all put in one place.

And I like the names (seen in various places) that folks have been coming up with for the heroes:

Nathan -
Peter -
Isaac - Super-Heroin
Claire - Cheerverine
Hiro -
Niki - ikiN (before the alter ego had a name)
Micah -
DL - Black Pryde
Matt -
Charlie - Google Girl (hee!)
Haitian - the Black Hole
Eden -
Sylar -
Soccer Boy -
Mohinder - Mohindrance
Ted - RadiaTed
Mr. Bennet - BGM, Bad Glasses Man (like XFiles Cigarette Smoking Man)

There is only one thing that would really forbid Hiro from saving the waitress. If the producers really, really don't like the character.

Let's be honest. Her ability to remember and retrieve information is easy to duplicate with a good laptop computer. And while it would be nice to have a cheery, Southwestern-voiced Waffle House waitress along for the ride (maybe bringing in all those old fans who loved Flo from "Alice") maybe the producers don't want a character with a lot of heart and sweetness around. As the Wrong Cheerleader's death indicated, this is that dark a series.

If Sylar doesn't kill her, Claire's dad will throw her in the concentration camp or shoot heroin into her for the sake of plain meanness.

After all, Gwen Stacy was nice and sweet, and bringing her back from the dead didn't help, did it?

I prefer "The Atomic Caveman" for Ted...

It is indeed easy to duplicate the Living Library's ability with a portable computer, but it is an awful lot harder to get that past security than it is her ability. Also, as mentioned earlier, no batteries required and no EM emissions to give it away.

The Haitian's nom de grrrr being "Black Hole"? No. I'd see more like "Mindwipe". After all he doesn't seem to absorb the knowledge into himself, he just makes it go away.

Peter? How about "Xerox"?

Matt? Since he seems to look into the minds of those around him I'd take his profession and call him Police Scanner.

"The Reed Richards explanation of time travel is that, when you go back in the past and make a change, it results in a divergent time track being created which continues on from the change while you return to the original track downstream. The future, on the other paw, sees you continuing on the changed path - since that future hadn't yet happened in your subjective time line - while a possible alternate time line is created where it still happens. So it is quite possible - if you buy that pseudo-science - for a time traveller to alter his subjective future, but not his subjective past."

Yeah, I've seen explanations like that before. That's how I know I'll lose a little respect for the series if they use that lame a justification.

So I have two non-competing theories as to what's happening on this show.

1) The heroes have to "Save the world" by nuking NY in the season finale. Hiro didn't go into the future to see what he had to prevent, he saw what he has to create. He just hasn't realized that yet. Am I wrong in thinking that Isaac hasn't painted anything that's been proven wrong yet? Why would it start with the big explosion?

2) Claire's dad isn't "evil", he doesn't work for some government shadow operation, and he's not Nick Fury. He's "Sara Connor". 20-some years ago he gets a visit from future Hiro, who tells him that he needs to save this kid who's going to come across his path in X years or else the world will come to an end.

So the guy starts his little organization, surrounds himself with powered individuals who are able to help protect the girl, kills the girl's mother when they do cross paths so he can adopt the girl and give her as close to a "normal" childhood as he can while still being abnormally overprotective.

(Look at his kidnappings as "catch and release". "Telepath? Got one, you can go. Nuclear reactor guy? Yeah, I don't think I want you hanging around. 'Guy who can paint the future while hopped up on smack'? Yeah, it could be useful to know what's coming, I'll keep you.")

>

That's assuming that in the future that Hiro came from that Peter knew that "the cheerleader" existed and he failed in saving her. IF Peter never went to Texas, there would have been no fight for him to survive. Maybe Future Hiro now knows that they were supposed to save her, but didn't the first time around.

GEHRU
Love me some time travel logic!

"Am I the only why who made the connection that Claire's powers were only how Peter was going to survive? The why was because he had to survive for Future Hiro to know him and comment on his scar."

That's assuming that in the future that Hiro came from that Peter knew that "the cheerleader" existed and he failed in saving her. IF Peter never went to Texas, there would have been no fight for him to survive. Maybe Future Hiro now knows that they were supposed to save her, but didn't the first time around.

GEHRU
Love me some time travel logic!

Dull, dull, dull. . .and way over-hyped. Yawn!

"Or maybe she dies another way, the timeline tends to heal itself and all that jive."

This isn't Final Destination.

"The heroes have to "Save the world" by nuking NY in the season finale. Hiro didn't go into the future to see what he had to prevent, he saw what he has to create. He just hasn't realized that yet. Am I wrong in thinking that Isaac hasn't painted anything that's been proven wrong yet? Why would it start with the big explosion?"

I really like this theory. And it makes sense, because Isaac's paintings apparently show what is going to happening, not what is going to happen unless someone changes it. His painting of Peter at Claire's school came true, even though it wouldn't have if Peter had never seen the picture. So his clairvoyance is pretty much infallible.

"What is going to happening." In my own defense, I just woke up.

One blogger I read suggested that the "nuclear man" who appeared a few episodes ago (and escaped government custody) is going to be responsible for blowing up New York.

I wondered part-way through the episode if Peter would be the one to die in this episode, and that eventually Hiro could bring Claire back to this time so he could absorb her powers and live, since he would be the only one who could save New York.

I'll be curious to see what Hiro's been up to for the last 6 months. I agree that he's the most interesting character on the show. Though I enjoy Mohinder, Peter and the cop as well (when we're not seeing the cop's ongoing marriage meltdown, which is boring as hell). I'm not really interested in Claire, Niki/Jessica, or Peter's brother.

JamesLynch: "when future Hiro visited him, Peter didn't immediately start teleporting and/or jumping through time"

True. However, Peter WAS able to move and act within time-less space. It could be argued that Peter was only able to do that because he was repeating Hiro's ability.

That could explain why the Future Hiro appeared to Peter; Hiro might not be able to bring others out of time-space with him. He can move them out of the way of danger (like he did in both rescues) but he can't start talking to them.

The only other person Future Hiro could probably interact with like this would be Current Hiro (rift anyone?).

How about this: They didn't save the cheerleader.

Mantra, time and time again, says "save the cheerleader." Hiro says "Save the cheerleader." No one mentions a name, but we all assume it's Claire because she has powers. The painting that Peter finished shows a dead cheerleader, yeah? In the same pose as the cheerleader who actually died! Sure, he may have helped save "a" cheerleader, but what if he didn't save "the" cheerleader? Claire may be nifty and have powers, but what if he was supposed to save the other one? Why the assumption that "the" = "clair"?

>So his clairvoyance is pretty much infallible.

Doesn't necessarily mean much. One of my favourite Japanese comedy shows, SHOMUNI, also features an 'infallible' clairvoyant. Which doesn't help when the people around her keep misinterpreting her visions.

"Doesn't necessarily mean much. One of my favourite Japanese comedy shows, SHOMUNI, also features an 'infallible' clairvoyant. Which doesn't help when the people around her keep misinterpreting her visions."

But the point isn't that people may or may not misinterpret the painting, the point is that the painting shows that an explosion will definitely(?) happen. Whether the characters try to cause it or prevent it, the painting clearly shows an explosion, which can't be misinterpreted as anything else.

"How about this: They didn't save the cheerleader."

Well, then, the world is toast and there won't be a second season :)

Seriously, of all the assumptions that people are being led to make, I think that this is the least likely one to be found wrong.

(The other assumptions, two of which I challenged above, are:
1: Claire's dad works for the black-helicopter division of the federal government
2: The heroes are supposed to stop the explosion in Isaac's painting.
3: Stopping the explosion will "save the world"
4: Claire's instrumental in stopping the explosion. Only true if 3 is true. For all we know, the explosion in NY is the opening salvo in a 50 year war that old, wrinkled Claire will eventually be the winning general of.
5: Sylar is the "big bad".
6: Niki is the "real" personality.

any others?)

Oh, and Isaac's name should be "Captain Smack", and his outfit should have a big red H on the chest.

1) Claire's comment: "I'm just a cheerleader" - NOT "I'm just THE cheerleader -- revealing.

2) Prediction: Peter bogarts Radioactive Dude's powers and he's the one who will present the actual threat of blowing up. - he may by then have enough control of his abilities enough to drain off Radioactive Dude's powers. His alluded to scar could be radiation-induced.

3) Still feel there's a larger threat -- the mantra is "save the world" - not "save NYC."

4) Speculation: Soccer Dream Kid is a genetically-enhanced clone of Mohandir's father, with all the father's memorie

>3) Still feel there's a larger threat -- the mantra is "save the world" - not "save NYC."

But if NYC goes BOOM in an A-blast, it is not unreasonable to assume other cities will start going 'poof', too. So, saving one doesn't preclude saving the other.

"Am I wrong in thinking that Isaac hasn't painted anything that's been proven wrong yet? Why would it start with the big explosion?"

So far, I don't think the character's have *tried* to stop most of the paintings. Several of the paintings we've seen are ones that the other characters aren't aware of, like the one of the waitress or the one of the train wreck.

Most of the other paintings are ones that the characters actively tried to make happen. Peter saw the flying one and jumped off a building. Hiro and Ando are doing everything they can to emulate the comic they found, even going to Las Vegas just because the comic told them to. And then Peter went to Texas for no other reason than the painting said that he'd be there.

So far we haven't seem many examples of people *trying* to stop what happens in the pictures. So I think it's premature to say that the paintings are infallible.

"Peter -
Isaac - Super-Heroin
Claire - Cheerverine
Hiro -
Niki - ikiN (before the alter ego had a name)
Micah -
DL - Black Pryde
Matt -
Charlie - Google Girl (hee!)
Haitian - the Black Hole
Eden -
Sylar -
Soccer Boy -
Mohinder - Mohindrance
Ted - RadiaTed
Mr. Bennet - BGM, Bad Glasses Man (like XFiles Cigarette Smoking Man)"

I thought Peter had already been dubbed RePeter.

Hiro, of course, would be SuperHiro, yes/no?

As for "Mohindrance", the man seems to be an educated professional, who's tasked with the job of Explaining It All to the audience, and who's trying to gather the others together to save the world...

Perhaps he's Professor X-Position?

(Okay, okay, I apologize...)

"So far we haven't seem many examples of people *trying* to stop what happens in the pictures. So I think it's premature to say that the paintings are infallible."

Maybe. But look at it this way: if he paints something that the characters prevent from happening, then it's not really a painting of the future, so wouldn't he have painted what actually does happen? It can make your head spin thinking about this.

The head spinning comes from the fact that there is no solid answer at this point. If they want to write it so that the paintings are unavoidable, they're able to do that. If they want to write it so that the paintings can be changed, they can do that too, since neither outcome would contradict what we've seen so far. So either is possible and we don't have enough info yet.

"The head spinning comes from the fact that there is no solid answer at this point."

No, not really. We're really talking about two different things. You're talking about the actual creation of the TV show and the choices of the writers, while I'm simply speculating about the nature and logic of clairvoyance as presented within the show, quite apart from what the writers actually intend (the "head spinning" comes from trying to "outthink" the paintings). Metafiction versus metaphysics, so to speak.

Maybe if someone succeeds in changing the outcome of one of the paintings, once they go back and look the painting will have changed to match.
Sort of like the changable future newspapers in Early Edition.

"We're really talking about two different things."

No, we're talking about the same thing. I can restate everything I said without mentioning the writers once.

From the point of view of the characters in the story, nobody has actually tried to stop anything in a painting yet. Thus, there's no evidence either way about whether or not the paintings are infallible. Once somebody actually learns about a painting and says, "I'll do something other than what the painting shows me doing," then we'll find out if fate forces them into doing it anyway.

A thought that's been floating in my head lately about the whole "save the cheerleader, save the world" thing isn't that she's the only one who would be able to stop the bomb blast already predicted . . .

Rather, what I've been wondering is this:

If the cheerleader died, her "father" takes a complete a terrible turn toward definite evil, rounding up and executing all of the "heroes," so regardless of who's supposed to stop the bomb, cheerleader or other wise, the bomb goes off and that's that . . .

Derek, yeah, I was thinking something like that for awhile, too. I was even thinking that maybe when his daughter dies, the guy goes nuts and bombs New York himself.

But after more thought, I doubt that's it. If that were it, then we'd never know that was it because saving Cheerverine would keep the Dad from ever even showing us that he was the real danger.

It has to be something that we can see later and go, "Oh, they never would have gotten through that if she hadn't been there." Something like PAD's suggestion of her having to walk through fire and then do something to save everyone.

But if NYC goes BOOM in an A-blast, it is not unreasonable to assume other cities will start going 'poof', too. So, saving one doesn't preclude saving the other.

1) No unquestionable evidence that it is an atomic blast -- so far only that it is a very, very large blast.

2) It may be "not unreasonable to assume" as you say, but it is still an unsubstantiated assumption, not a given, and only one of several such assumptions about what might happen.

Come to think of it, supppose Sylar is not one specific person, but can jump from body to body -- and ends up inhabiting Claire. Could that be what she needs to be "saved" from?

Did anyone catch the name on the Soccer Boy's file? It was quick, but I thought it was a variation on Sylar. Like his first name began with "Sy" and last with "Lar". I could be completely mistaken and don't have a way to go back and watch it, but if anyone can verify...

(By the way, love the blog, especially the TV roundups. We haven't seen a Veronica Mars thread in a while. I'm curious to get PAD and everyone's take on season 3.)

"From the point of view of the characters in the story, nobody has actually tried to stop anything in a painting yet. Thus, there's no evidence either way about whether or not the paintings are infallible. Once somebody actually learns about a painting and says, "I'll do something other than what the painting shows me doing," then we'll find out if fate forces them into doing it anyway."

Yeah, I see what you're saying, and I don't disagree. But my comments were more along the lines of "This is how it should be," or "Wouldn't be interesting if...", than "This is how it is in the show," and I was sort of thinking "aloud" about how, if the paintings WERE infallible (i.e. if they showed the actual future, rather than the potential future), then it means that the characters can do nothing about it... if they do nothing, it will still come true, and if they try to prevent it, the thing they do to prevent it will be what causes it, and so on (which is what I meant by the head spinning comment).

waterboy: Did anyone catch the name on the Soccer Boy's file? It was quick, but I thought it was a variation on Sylar. Like his first name began with "Sy" and last with "Lar". I could be completely mistaken and don't have a way to go back and watch it, but if anyone can verify...

I don't tape Heroes so I can't go back and check, but I remember seeing the name on the file as something like "S. Ilyer" which, of course, seemed kinda significant (if I didn't imagine it all...).

>supppose Sylar is not one specific person, but can jump from body to body

If so, then Mindwipe - my name for the haitian who erases memories - may be the best defense against the guy. Too, if he is a body jumper (which I doubt), does this mean the telekinetic abilities he's shown would be a 'property' of his 'current' body? If he's like Malice in the X-Men strip, but without the tell-tale collar, that could make him a real pain to spot.

I tracked down a copy of episode 8, and took a look at the name on the Soccer Boy's file. It says "SANJOG, Iyer". It is curiously similar to "Sylar", but not clearly so. It could be significant, or it could be a red herring for crazy people who pause TV shows to try to read labels on make-believe file folders. I guess we'll just wait and see...

I still believe we be honest and officially name the bald guy who can wipe minds Scary Black Guy. This name is an instant emotional trigger for comic book fans, 99.5 percent of whom are timid white nerds for whom "scary" and "black guy" are synonymous.

D.L. isn't a scary black guy; he's a father. He has a kid and cares for him. Scary Black Guy doesn't relate to anyone and has no emotions. He's a cannon. Or more appropriate, he's the guy waiting outside the comic book store waiting to intimidate and rob the white nerds as they emerge.

In other words, Peter Petrelli is wrong. Life doesn't get better after high school, because high school never ends. All of life after high school is just a bigger, louder, more deadly version of high school.

Peter Patrelli = RePete

Power mimic guy - credit goes to "Television without Pity" forums.

[i]Mr. Bennet - BGM, Bad Glasses Man (like XFiles Cigarette Smoking Man)"[/i]

FYI, in close-captioning, and in other places, I've seen him referred to as HRG, for "Horn-Rimmed Glasses," so you're on the right track.

;-)

Slight Spoiler Warning (for those who didn't watch the promo for next week):

in the promo for the next episode, we're shown a gravestone with the name Jessica on it. I'm wondering if Niki has more than a simple MPD. What if Jessica was a twin, and while her body died, she's still around.

Of course, it doesn't explain why "Jessica" has super-strength, but Niki doesn't.

The other thing is, the Jessica on the gravestone died at age 11. Does Niki not remember her? She doesn't appear to "recognise" the woman in the mirror.

...hmm...

My HTML tags don't appear to be working.

Sorry to keep going like this, but I thought of two more things:

1. What do you think Sylar is doing with the brains he removes? (Well, I'm assuming they're gone; we haven't actually been told that, have we?)

2. Anyone reading the online comic books? I ask because, while most of them are fairly inconsequential, number 6 focusses on Jessica, and what happened with her and DL's gang. It also shows a connection between her and another character that has not, to my knowledge, been mentioned on the show -- except maybe very subtly.

I don't know if I should spoil it or not...

Mr. David;

With all due respect, Heroes is about the dumbest thing on TV right now. It's appeal is only the amount of time that the female stars show as much cleavage as they can. I am fed up with network TV and their efforts at a superhero TV show. It's all been CRAP.

Gee, thanks for that, R.M....

Now back to the Heroes drool fest...

Thanks to so much TV we're watching this year...still haven't seen a single episode of Supernaturla...and our 13 month old's bed-time routine, we're just catching up on things. But we're up on Heroes now...

I'm almost embarrased to say, but the person who's been reading comics for 20+ years didn't see Peter's way of surviving, while my wife...who's read maybe 20 comics in her life...called it. Yes, I've officially turned in my Membership card and tights. So even though I knew the show had established that Peter had to survive...he has to get a scar for Hiro to not recognize, after all...I didn't see how. I did figure that, if he died, we were going to see Hiro change the past and get a do-over.

I'm hoping that Hiro is unable to change events he's lived through. I'm not sure what that means about his little visit to the future, though. If time's on a single stream, New York is screwed...unless there's a hero out there than can absorb a large explosion we haven't met yet. But if Hiro's visits to the future are not established yet, then there's a real chance they can stop those events. But I don't want to see Hiro change the past, erasing events we've already seen. I'd be watching Daybreak if I wanted to see do-overs.

So as much as I liked the Waitress, for the sake of the show I think she needs to be dead dead. And Hiro needs to learn the limits of his powers...that he can't change the past, but he can change the course of the future.

In our house, we love Heroes. It's like Lost on steroids...there's real superpowered stuff going on that we can understand (yes, I'm looking at YOU, Lostzilla), we aren't having mysteries dragged out over 3 seasons, and the plot advances in a way that mostly makes sense and pleases. Plus it's got superpowers. And with 20 million people watching, we know it's going to be on all season, and won't get cancelled just when it's getting good (darn you, CBS, and your lack of faith in Threshold....)

Code name for Matt could be Telepathicop.

Mr. R.M.,

You are hereby banned from this forum. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.

Sincerely,
The Judge in a Beauty Contest

I think the explosion happens... but only after DL latches on to Ted at the last minute and phases them both out, leaving the explosion visible yet out of sync enough that it passes through things with only a minor shockwave. Or Peter bridges some of Claire's and DL's powers together so he won't die before the explosion disipates.

I disagree with you about the narration being "snore-enducing". The narration helps set the mood of the show as being something with profound meaning and history instead of just another suspension of disbelief like so many bad sci-fi shows.