I am so freaking sick of getting recorded phone calls from Democratic candidates urging me to vote for them. What is the POINT of this? Is there really anyone out there who remains undecided the day before election day and suddenly a recorded phone call from Hillary Clinton is going to make them say, "Well, I was waffling before, but this settled it for me!"
If any of these people want to call me themselves and chat for a couple minutes, thatwould interest me, just as it does when local candidates come knocking on my door and want to talk about the issues and ask for my vote. But this recorded stuff just makes me want to go vote for whoever isn't derailing my train of thought with these annoying interruptions.
PAD
Posted by Peter David at November 6, 2006 02:02 PM | TrackBack | Other blogs commentingThere have been a lot of complaints about "robocalls" recently. Oddly, one of the current batch of dirty tricks involves Republicans setting up a robocall bank to alienate Democratic voters...
Actually, it's interesting that you bring this up, PAD.
In NH, somebody made a complaint to the state after receiving 5 automated calls in two days. The person is on the federal do-not-call list.
Apparently, with that list, politicians still cannot call you with automated messages, so they (the GOP) were told to stop.
Of course, the whole idea is that these messages are targetting those that are undecided... whether anybody is undecided the day before the election, I guess there are such people, otherwise they wouldn't be bombarding/harassing us with this crap. :)
Peter, there is a big story on this already making the rounds. The Republicans in certain areas have been doing massive robo-calls identifying themselves as Democrats in order to piss off voters. See Josh Marshall's Talking Points Memo for details.
My sympathies on the automated calls. One of the bonuses I've gotten out of switching to a cellphone for all phone communications is the decided lack of all sorts of cold-calls. I wouldn't expect that solution to be practical for you, but it sure worked for me.
I had the exact same thoughts but in reverse. I only get calls from Republican candidates, sometimes I want to vote democrat in revenge.
I keep wanting to say, I'm on the no-call list. I know, legally you can call, but it completely disrespectful. If I don't wanna hear from telemarketers, I don't wanna here from the political version of a telemarketer.
Oh, that's really interesting, Matt Q.
It looks like we've reported the same issue, but I hadn't heard anything about the content of the messages, just that it was supposed to be against the do-not-call list rules.
I actually got a robocall from Lynda Carter, of all people. It was so weird to hear that on my answering machine: "Hi. I'm Lynda Carter..."
Eric
I only get calls from Republicans here, which is funny since we have so few competitive races and nobody for Senate running. I think one was a record form Rush Limbaugh or someone who sounds like him. Another was from some woman who goes on and on and on...
Are political ads covered under the Do Not Call legislation? I could see potential First Amendment problems here.
According to Wikipedia, Placing one's number on the National Do Not Call Registry will stop most, but not all, telemarketing calls. A person may still receive calls from political organizations, charities, telephone surveyors or companies with which he or she has an existing business relationship.
Political solicitations are not covered by the National Do Not Call Registry.
Perhaps recorded messages are different, though that seems a strange hair to split.
There's a very good chance this is actually Republicans masquerading as Democrats. The object is to piss off Democratic voters so they stay away from the polls. This is going on all over the country. Story here:
Are political ads covered under the Do Not Call legislation?
Before all this started making news about whether this was Repubs trying to pass themselves off as Dems, the article I originally read said that political calls could be made to those on the Do Not Call List if they're not automated (ie, 'robocalls').
So, they apparently are partially covered.
I could see potential First Amendment problems here.
Pfft. The thing I hate about the Do Not Call List? It's an opt-out list.
This could is so ass-backwards, that to prevent from being harassed, you have to opt-out. Nothing is opt-in.
And more opt-out madness: After having been notified for the third time in the last ten months that my personal information may have been put up for grabs to identity thieves, I get to write to the three credit companies to opt-out of allowing my info to be used to send me junk mail.
Opt-out blows.
These people shouldn't be allowed to harass us to begin with. Their right to free speech long ago overcame our right to privacy.
The way I read it, the GOP spent over 2 million on this project, and it's designed to create the exact kind of response that PAD had.
Think about it. Dirty, dirty trick.
Peter, I sympathize I am a life long republican so I get all their calls, but I have the same name and now same phone number as my late father a life long democrat. SO now I get all the calls from both parties. Five Republican calls this weekend including two from John McCain and Three Democrat calls including two from Hillary. God I can’t wait till Wednesday.
Oddly enough, I haven't received any calls from either party, desptie the huge amount of desperation Rick Santorum is in.
Joe Piscopo is shilling for the Repub candidate for Senate in NJ.
It's a head-scratcher. I can't imagine the number of people who would be swayed by Joe Piscopo's opinion is much greater than the number of people in his immediate family.
Another reason I'm glad we don't have a house phone anymore. Although it did come in handy when we lost our cells in the house.
I can honestly say I've never had a candidate for ANYTHING knock on my door. Might be kind of interesting.
Oddly enough, I haven't received any calls from either party, desptie the huge amount of desperation Rick Santorum is in.
That's exactly why. Santorum is so screwed only a Cyberman conquest could save him now. This phoney call trick is best reserved for squeaker elections where the candidates are tied. You only need to supress/switch a few people to make a difference.
I've had two (so far) today.
One was a pre-recorded message not only reminding me to go vote tomorrow, but accurately quoting me where my polling place is.
Being in Connecticut, the other pre-recorded message was from BILL Clinton urging me not only to vote, but to vote Democratic. At least I came out better on that one because I would have hung up the instant I recognized Hillary's voice, even if it wasn't on tape.
Thankfully, I have Call Intercept with Verizon. If you aren't familiar with this handy feature, it puts private, blocked, and other types of calls that don't allow you to see their name or number through an automated system that asks them to dial something in order to record a 2-sec announcement and ask my permission to put the call through. The Interceptor calls me with the short message so I can choose to accept the call, reject it, or put it through to voicemail. It also gives me the option to play a message that says I do not accept solicitations with a formal (and legal) request to put me on their do not call list.
This has reduced the amount of spam calls to 1 per month! I love it! The automated machine calls are automatically rejected because they can't select the announcement option, and the live people apparently don't waste their time trying to convince me to accept the call.
Daniel
Thing that cracks me up is we're supposed to be in the "Information Age." We've got data flowing at us everywhere. The McDonalds' that I went into over the weekend had four LCD TV's, all on news channels. "Hi, I'd like Wolf Blitzer with cheese, please." Now, I don't want to say that it's impossible to be undecided, since I only see the local races, but these people on either side have been shouting from the nearest rooftop for months now,so do they REALLY think a couple phone calls are going to get more people out? A couple RECORDED phone calls? Come on.
so do they REALLY think a couple phone calls are going to get more people out? A couple RECORDED phone calls? Come on.
Well, the hope of the most recently detailed dirty trick is that sufficient recorded phone calls will inspire people to stay home. And in a close race, that's a viable tactic.
Posted by: Sasha at November 6, 2006 03:41 PM
Santorum is so screwed only a Cyberman conquest could save him now.
The Cybermen wouldn't help him. Santorum is a conservative Christian who opposes abortion, embryonic stem cell research, and Cyberization.
He is not eligible for upgrade. He will be deleted.
"The only thing that could get me to vote Republican"
LUUUUUUKKKKEEEE,
COME....TO...THE...DARK...SIDE....
HEH, HEH........
The Cybermen wouldn't help him. Santorum is a conservative Christian who opposes abortion, embryonic stem cell research, and Cyberization.
But Cyberization = no more gay sex, so he might support it.
I'd say that the modern GOP is following the Dalek example of wanting to exterminate that which is not (theologically) pure.
(And Rove is a wannabe Master . . .)
> This has reduced the amount of spam calls to 1 per month! I love it!
And how many viable calls has it intercepted by mistake? I've known this to happen with some of those systems. I've got a friend who wondered why he hadn't heard from me in a while. His call-blocking system was the answer. He was not happy. Neither was I.
Maybe if Colin Powell was running.... He's about the only "politician" I can respect.
I've always felt that those who refuse to exercise their right to vote really have given up the right to complain about politics .I don't mean to go off on a rant here, since I don't often throw about my beliefs. But since I vote every year, and though "W" is not my president, I feel I'm supporting the process that elected him, which I believe, in theory, can work. Likewise, though I don't support the flagrant misuse of power that put them there, I support our troops wherever in the world they may serve. However, I can't help but feel that my little "voice" in the government process is like shouting at the rain. I still feel unheard, my outrage at the mockery organized politics has made of the affairs of this country goes largely unheeded. Yet I still vote. It's more an act of faith these days....faith that by some stretch of the imagination, somebody might feel the same way I do. And if one more person does so and votes, than maybe more of us are out there.
So I make this blanket plea to all of you voters out there. Drag some one else in there with you. Any hippocrite who bitches about how terrible this government is and says they don't vote because it doesn't matter. That's not the point.
Okay, maybe it is the point, but, if each of us do this, then maybe some self respect will return to the electoral process. Do you realize how much the dictatorships of the world must be laughing at America? We fought so long and hard against what they believe, so our citizenry can participate in their government, only then, once we have this freedom, to have a pitiful 20 percent voter turnout? 20 percent is disgraceful... 50 percent is disgraceful too, but hey, baby steps, right? If more of us normal, every-day working schlubs took the time to give a shit, maybe we could hold our government accountable for the right bloody mess we're in. We cannot stand idly by and watch this from the sidelines any longer. The founding fathers gave us a great gift, and we're pissing away our birthright for an MP3 file and an X-Box. It is not just our right, but our solemn duty to question our goverment officials, because if they aren't held acountable.... well we've seen what can happen.
Live free or die used to be our country's motto... now it seems to be "Live Free, but Don't Bother Me to Care".
I also got the phone call from Piscipo. It was kinda odd. It seemed at first he was just reminding you to vote, but then he added in that he was voting Republican, and then the back matter ran.
I can't vote tomorrow. I do, however, plan on continuing to bitch about my government. ;)
(I moved recently, from one state that won't let you absentee vote if you've been living out of the state for more than a month, to a state that requires residency for longer than a month before you're allowed to register to vote... lucky me. Irritatingly, this is the second time this has happened to me, although last time it was in a presidential year...)
One question about the Piscopo call?
What Exit?
At least I would've listened to Lynda Carter, especially if the call began "Hi! I'm Lynda Carter and I'm standing here in my Wonder Woman
costume. Time to tie up Dubya and Rumsfeld with my Golden Lasso and make them tell the truth...
Wow...and to me the most annoying things about election time has been all the @#$% signs at EVERY corner with a stoplight.
I've had a couple of calls, but they've come in when I'm not home, and the machine gets 'em.
"At least I would've listened to Lynda Carter, especially if the call began "Hi! I'm Lynda Carter and I'm standing here in my Wonder Woman
costume. Time to tie up Dubya and Rumsfeld with my Golden Lasso and make them tell the truth..."
If Wonder Woman had ME in her lasso, all she'd get from me is:
"DAMN, those are some BIG 'OL Hooters!"
R. Hansen wrote: "There's a very good chance this is actually Republicans masquerading as Democrats. The object is to piss off Democratic voters so they stay away from the polls. This is going on all over the country."
Oh c'mon! I live in Illinois, and I haven't received any automated political call that calls me back seven times. I have however, received plenty of calls from Democratic candidates, who have a ton of dough to blow here. I've gotten two from Republican candidates, including one that asked me if I wanted to participate in a live "town meeting" conference call with Congressman Mark Kirk -- which I thought was pretty cool, and opted to do so to check it out. You could ask questions if you wanted to wait in a que, and you could vote on various poll questions he asked. The callers did not seem to be shills, because some of them were pretty angry and negative. I stuck around the meeting for a half hour or so, and based on the slightly fluctuating poll results, at its peak, there was about 150 people on the call.
The Democratic attack ads transmitted here via telephone, on TV, via e-mail and in the snail mail seem to outnumber the Republican ads by a margin of three or four two one.
And while it looks like I will again be splitting my ticket this election, I do not appreciate the deluge of attack ads from both parties. And any party that claims a moral high ground in the ad war this election is full of crap -- at least from my perspective. Overall, this has to be one of the dirtiest elections I can recall since I cast my first vote back in 1972.
R. Hansen wrote: "There's a very good chance this is actually Republicans masquerading as Democrats. The object is to piss off Democratic voters so they stay away from the polls. This is going on all over the country."
Oh c'mon! I live in Illinois, and I haven't received any automated political call that calls me back seven times.
Sorry, but this has been published in mass media in Philadelphia
http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/local/15898729.htm
and Kansas
http://www.nancyforcongress.com/index.php
And factcheck.org has been tracking the number of misleading ads and indicate that the Republican ones have been outnumber the Democratic ones.
Because of the way this campaign tactic is being done, there is no way to tell for sure if the call is coming from your Democratic candidate or if it is coming from your Republican opposition.
The Republicans are trying to piss people off so they either vote against the "pain-in-the-butt Democrat" or just don't vote at all.
Dirty politics, but what can you expect from any Republican candidte these days.
Because of the way this campaign tactic is being done, there is no way to tell for sure if the call is coming from your Democratic candidate or if it is coming from your Republican opposition.
Actually, a lot of the calls, if left alone to complete, will say that the phone call is being paid for by the RNCC (which is a violation of campaign rules).
Either way, it's really kinda scummy.
Many years ago, I was taking care of one of those mundane chores we are all forced to do, I was in the laundromat doing my laundry.
It was the middle of the day and the laundromat was somewhat deserted. The laundromat was on the main street of the town I was living in at the time, one of several small villages lining the shore of the Hudson just north of the city.
A middle aged man came into the laundromat, he was well dressed and seemed somewhat out of place. At first, I thought he had come in to get change from the change machine for the parking meter but, he immediately made a beeline for me, stuck out his hand an introduced himself.
He asked me if I would vote for him in the coming election and I was impressed by his earnestness. Needless to say from that point forth I found myself voting for the man. The rub was, this was not a man who was running for office for the first time. In fact, at the time I believe he was serving his seventh consecutive term in the House of Representatives. The fact that he took the time out to go out, by himself to meet his constituents always stayed with me. Then again, he is a very unique man as evidenced by his biography here.
I keep getting fliers from the local Republican party saying I shouldn't vote for certain candidates because they're liberal, pro-choice, and the NRA doesn't like them. I'm thinking "thanks for confirming that these are the one's to vote for" :)
David
We've been getting a lot of those calls around here as well. Doesn't matter to me one bit.
I've met George Allen. I've had to work around the man and gotten to see how he really acts. I wouldn't vote for that bastard if you put a gun to my head.
No call in the world is going to change that.
:)
While visiting my parents' house I answered their phone twice today to hear prerecorded, civilized-sounding messages from Bill Clinton (sure sounded like him) & John McCain. I listened to less than 5 seconds of each (something about voting, I think) before hanging up. I'd like to joke that I couldn't get a word in edgewise with Clinton when I tried to ask him "any word on the McRib?"
idiots like Affleck can stump for Democrats, though rarely seem to know about the actual candidate. He instead just cheers the Democratic platform, regardless of the district's issues. I don't see why Piscopo can't do the same
"We've been getting a lot of those calls around here as well. Doesn't matter to me one bit.
I've met George Allen. I've had to work around the man and gotten to see how he really acts. I wouldn't vote for that bastard if you put a gun to my head.
No call in the world is going to change that."
I live in Virginia too. George Allen has my vote, if for no other reason than simply to negate Jerry C's vote
HAH!
Fine with me, Sparky.
You go ahead and negate my vote. Then my wife will cast her vote. She also hates Allen. Since the blow up doll you have as a girlfriend doesn't get to vote, we win this exchange two votes to one. Thanks for playing. Have a nice night.
:)
"Fine with me, Sparky.
You go ahead and negate my vote. Then my wife will cast her vote. She also hates Allen."
Guess I'm going to lose after all...I had realized that we'd given sheep the vote...oh well...
The RNCC has ADMITTED they're doing this. They're PROUD of flaunting the FCC law. After all, they have plenty of money to pay the fines, and in the meantime they get to either smear the Demo candidates (if the recipient listens to the call all the way through) or pretend to be the Demo candidate (if the recipient likely hangs up) and keep calling at 5 AM or whatnot, up to 14+ times!, and convince the recipient not to vote Dem. Either way they win. DON'T LET THEM.
They're PROUD of flaunting the FCC law.
One can only hope the FCC finds a way to bring the hammer down on them in a way that the RNCC thinks twice about doing this kind of stuff every again.
I'm already imagining the kids of voting horror stories we can expect to hear tomorrow.
"One can only hope the FCC finds a way to bring the hammer down on them in a way that the RNCC thinks twice about doing this kind of stuff every again.
I'm already imagining the kids of voting horror stories we can expect to hear tomorrow."
Christ, Hannity was right..."either the Democrats win, or the Republicans cheated."
You people are such idiots....
Bob Ahrens:
"The founding fathers gave us a great gift, and we're pissing away our birthright for an MP3 file and an X-Box."
Uh, no, we took the great gift our founding fathers gave us and turned it into WWF WRESTLING!!! This is no more intelligent than Hulk Hogan and Rowdy Roddy Piper mothing off at each other!
This is all actually a game that government is playing with our lives. It doesn't matter who's in power--Democrats or Republicans--we don't get a REAL say in how we get to live our lives...this is all really just to keep us entertained so that these assholes in Washington can keep their jobs.
NONE of the Politicians out there is worth their weight in Elephant poo (except maybe Joe Leiberman--he stuck to his own opinions and gave the Democrats the finger-sit and spin on THAT, Pelosi-FUCK your party lines--Frickin' HARSH, dude! The man's got BALLS)
So yeah, go out there and vote.
But don't expect life to change all that much.
It never does.
Christ, Hannity was right..."either the Democrats win, or the Republicans cheated."
If the Dems do not reclaim so much as one house of Congress, then, going entirely by the fact that less than 30% of the country is happy with the current direction of Congress, cheating is the first and strongest logical reason for Republicans staying in power. The second being a hopelessly corrupted electoral system where the public will is thwarted by last-minute infusions of cash and negative campaigning.
You people are such idiots....
Sez the lockstep conservative. We may all be sheep in our own lefty or righty way, but some of us have the sense to ignore a shepherd that is trying to coax us over a precipice.
Uh, no, we took the great gift our founding fathers gave us and turned it into WWF WRESTLING!!! This is no more intelligent than Hulk Hogan and Rowdy Roddy Piper mothing off at each other!
My god, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn occasionally I guess. Bradley actually said something I agree with, who woulda thunk it?
The sad thing is there doesn't seem to be any going back. The 2004 election was won by saying "Kerry was a coward in Vietnam" and "Kerry will get us all blown up by terrorists" and "John Edwards is a scummy trial lawyer who doesn't have any experience" and so forth. First the Democrats and their supporters didn't do much to counter at all, and when they finally did, with talk of how a win for Bush would mean another draft and those reports about Bush's military service that turned up on Dan Rather's desk, it was done ineptly.
So now, after getting their asses handed to them in 2004, the Dems are trying to fight fire with fire. Will anybody ever get elected again by being a nice guy, by playing fair, or is it gonna be like this until the end of the system as we know it?
I find this whole thing with the recorded calls (or even live calls) soliciting people for votes to be so strange, very annoying, and just plain stupid.
My father lives in New Mexico. I was there two years ago in November and remember him getting multiple calls a day. And I was just down there at the beginning of October of this year and encountered the same situation -- multiple phone calls per day soliciting votes.
It just stupifies me. I live in Texas (and have for going on 18 years) and we don't have that problem here. I can't ever remember getting bombarded with phone calls like that. In fact ... I'm not sure I can even remember getting a single phone call of that nature.
Of course ... it maybe be because I live in a state that generally tilts toward the Republican side that I haven't encountered any of this because I think most of the calls my father is getting bombarded with in New Mexico are from the Republican party.
It is just madness.
I know if I were subject to that same insanity, it would definitely influence my vote (I would refuse to vote for candidates/parties bombarding me with calls and annoying the hell out of me).
Guess I'm going to lose after all...I had realized that we'd given sheep the vote...
Of course we have! How else do you think Bush managed to get re-elected?
More on-topic - I work customer service for a major cell-service provider. Now, admittedly, my voice does come out sounding rather practiced (a necessity, for an autistic - speech doesn't come as naturally as it does for an NT), but I certainly wasn't expecting one of my callers to fail to acknowledge my greeting until I was just about to hang up. She'd been inundated by so many political robocalls, she thought I was just another recording!
Yeah, that sounds like a great way to get out the vote, guys...
I wish my only problem was automated phone calls.
I share an address with my folks, but not a phone number. My phone number is unlisted. Lately, several people have been trying to reach me using my parents phone number. The rub is that they are giving their first names as if they were friends calling me - I don't even know people with those names. Fortunately, my parents weren't born yesterday and have denied that I can be reached at that number.
Who wants to bet that these calls end after elections?
Oh... and the kicker... one of these "clever" callers -after hearing that I was unavailable- asked for my husband. I am not married. My dad was half-tempted to say that I wasn't and if they had a "candidate" for me. LOL
Christine
Since some people have posted wondering how these calls could influence the vote, I'd like to explain one of the dirty tricks a bit more clearly. What's happening in some places is this:
The phone message, which is received at annoying times of the day and night, begins with the sentence: I'm calling with information about [Jane Smith]. For [Jane Smith], insert the name of the Democratic candidate. This makes it sound as if the phone call is coming from the Democratic candidate.
The phone calls then continue to go into a whole bunch of bad things about the Democrat, so anyone staying on the line gets an earful of dirt. That's bad enough, but nothing new.
But many people are going to hang up after they hear the first sentence and realize it's a taped telemarketer-type call. So they're not going to hear the body of the message, with all the attacks on the Democrat, and are likely to assume the message was sent on behalf of the Democrat.
These calls are aimed at undecided voters. Committed Republican voters aren't likely to be swayed by the call, because they're already planning to vote for the Republican. Committed Democratic voters aren't likely to be swayed, either. But an undecided voter who keeps on receiving these calls, over and over and over, especially at annoying times when they don't want to be disturbed by phone calls, and who thinks it is the Democrat who is responsible for these calls, will quite possibly think, Okay, that does it, that is one candidate who is NOT getting my vote!
Peter, that's amateur our. Here in Chicago that trick is old as dirt: PRETEND to be part of the opposing party or campaign (cuz dirty tricks ain't limited to inter-party fights, intra-party fights can do the same) calling late at night or early in the morning, being obnoxious, rude, etc. Only there was no newfangled computer making the calls; they were made by hand.
-- Ken from Chicago (where folks will vote early, vote often)
Peter, that's amateur our. Here in Chicago that trick is old as dirt: PRETEND to be part of the opposing party or campaign (cuz dirty tricks ain't limited to inter-party fights, intra-party fights can do the same) calling late at night or early in the morning, being obnoxious, rude, etc. Only there was no newfangled computer making the calls; they were made by hand.
-- Ken from Chicago (where folks will vote early, vote often)
Well out here in the Sacramento area... every other add on TV is an attack add of some sort... Mostly by Pombo or Doolittle... A few Dem ones... but mostly the Dem ones seem to be less nasty...
As for phone calls all I seem to get are calls to support this Republican or that Republican about 6 times a day. Not a single Dem call at all.
"If the Dems do not reclaim so much as one house of Congress, then, going entirely by the fact that less than 30% of the country is happy with the current direction of Congress, cheating is the first and strongest logical reason for Republicans staying in power. The second being a hopelessly corrupted electoral system where the public will is thwarted by last-minute infusions of cash and negative campaigning."
You forgot the other, most obvious alternative--THAT YOUR GODDAMN POLLS ARE DEAD WRONG.
Well, we'll see now, won't we?
Folks, I hate to be the voice of anti-paranoia but all this talk about Republican Dirty Tricks vis a vis the phone calls is rificulous. I was all set up to think thatthey were calling pretending to be the Democrat and advocating throwing anthrax spores in the faces of school children. Now it turns out that the "dirty trick" is that the recipient of the call hangs up thinking that the call came from the Democrat.
THIS is a dirty trick?
It sort of assumes the potential voter is dopey enough to assume the wrong thing. I've noticed that an awful lot of Democrats assume their supporters are easily fooled and must be protected like a child. Confusing ballots baffle them. Phone calls confuse them. The simplest tricks leave them hopelessly befuddled.
In the last week the mood among Democrat activists seems to have shifted from "We're going to win!" to "We're going to blow it!" and I don't get it. ZThere is no way the Democrats don't pick up at least 4 Senate seats and I wouldn't bet against them taking the Senate. The House is thiers, it's only a question of by how much. I'd bet the mortgage on that one.
THere IS actual genuine election fraud out there. Check out what's been going on in Missouri. But this is silliness.
Okay, it's Tuesday monrning and time to put my final prediction on record:
The dems take the House, but fall one seat short of taking the Senate.
Let's see how well I do.
Evil trick by Republicans, now that's funny. People will fall for anything, maybe it's the Democrats posing as Democrats posing as Republicans posing as Democrats. It's weird all this talk of voter fraud, tricks and stealing elections and it's never been proven, but hey if it makes youn feel better don't stop believing.
Christ, Hannity was right..."either the Democrats win, or the Republicans cheated."
You people are such idiots...."
Who is the greater fool? The fool, or the fool who follows them?
I swear, I don't understand the kind of mind (and I use the term loosely) that motivates someone like you. If there are people whom I despise, as you clearly do me and anyone here who thinks differently than you, then I just don't bother with them. It would never occur to me to show up at such a forum and repeatedly be rude and insulting, any more than it would occur to a person with normal intelligence and socialization skills to walk into someone's house party and start spewing invective at the host and guests. The fact that you don't care about your boorish behavior speaks volumes about you.
Which is far more than I'll be doing, especially since you insulted one poster's wife on another thread.
This guy's officially shrouded. I invite anyone else to follow that example. It's always entertaining to watch such people shouting and screaming to get attention when everyone's ignoring them.
PAD
Well, it's Election Day.
Let the games begin!
Ben Bradley -
Christ, Hannity was right..."either the Democrats win, or the Republicans cheated."
Uhuh, and maybe you'll deny that some Republicans, whether with the blessing of their party leaders or not, took it upon themselves to conduct voter harassment campaigns in California (against Hispanics), possibly in Virginia (against African Americans), and the robocalls that were made against the country.
Worse still, with the robocalls, the RNCC readily admitted to making the calls, and said they would continue to make them.
Deibold's CEO said he would "deliver Ohio to the Republicans" in '04, and he did precisely that.
NONE of the Politicians out there is worth their weight in Elephant poo
You're probably right, more so since the symbol of the GOP is the elephant.
You forgot the other, most obvious alternative--THAT YOUR GODDAMN POLLS ARE DEAD WRONG.
Hmm. That's an amusing one, since, until Bush came along, the polls weren't wrong. I wonder why that is...
Bill Mulligan -
THIS is a dirty trick?
Yes, Bill, it is. It violates FCC rules in the most obvious, that being that the caller MUST identify themselves and who they're calling on behalf of at the beginning of the call.
The fact that the robocall neither identifies the caller, nor correctly identifies who they're calling on behalf of, are both blatant violations of the rules and law.
And that doesn't even get into the ignoring of the Do Not Call list...
It sort of assumes the potential voter is dopey enough to assume the wrong thing. I've noticed that an awful lot of Democrats assume their supporters are easily fooled and must be protected like a child.
The flip side of that, however, is that the Republicans clearly believe it, too, since they initiated these robocalls in an effort to confuse and annoy potential democrat voters. There have also been reports of fliers being circulated in black neighborhoods telling voters that polling places have been moved. Similar tactics were also reported in the 2004 election.
I wouldn't say that they believe all voters are stupid, but when a race is so tight that 1-2% can mean the difference between victory and defeat, all they have to do is confuse that tiny percentage of potential voters. That's less than the percentage of people who think pro-wrestling is real. Or that the Weapons of Mass Destruction were found.
You forgot the other, most obvious alternative--THAT YOUR GODDAMN POLLS ARE DEAD WRONG.
That would mean that pretty much every single scientific poll on the subject for the last few months by every poll company of repute has been off by 20-30 points.
Dude, keep reaching for the stars. They're right next to the straws you're grasping at.
What amuses me in Oregon is how heavy the advertising has become in the last couple of days. Oregon, for those not in the know, is vote-by-mail. We've all had our ballot for weeks and if someone hasn't voted yet, well, they probably aren't going to. Yet the ads--especially for the dems--have been hot and heavy.
I actually am voting Republican for governor. The current Democrat governor isn't a bad person but he is a lousy governor. We need a change.
What's funny is that he calls them "your" polls, as if the people in this forum work for Rasmussen, Quinnipiac, and the half dozen other polling organizations that have consistantly shown the same trends. Sure, the only poll that truly counts is the one taken today, but when every statistical analysis shows "X" and somehow, the final vote is "Y", then you have to wonder whether the accepted polling methods are wrong or that the vote has somehow been compromised.
Eric! -
It's weird all this talk of voter fraud, tricks and stealing elections and it's never been proven
Too bad you're wrong:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_New_Hampshire_Senate_election_phone_jamming_scandal
Unfortunately, there's been too much money involved (see: Diebold, among other things) to prove most of the rest of it.
Yes, Bill, it is. It violates FCC rules in the most obvious, that being that the caller MUST identify themselves and who they're calling on behalf of at the beginning of the call.
I wasn't aware of that. If so, you are correct. I note, however, that I can't find anything on the official Do Not Call page about this--it SEEMS to indicate that political calls are totally off their ability to regulate. Any sources I can check? It isn't that I doubt you, it's just that a lot of this seems to be coming from opinion sites, not factually based ones.
That would mean that pretty much every single scientific poll on the subject for the last few months by every poll company of repute has been off by 20-30 points.
The polls are wrong. I can say this because if you have been following them they are swinging all over the place. Corker ahead by 12 when he was down by 1 the previous day? Hello!
What usually happens after the races end up being much much closer than the polls suggest is that the polling company comes up with some bogus claim about a "late surge". Amazing how often that happens. (Zogby is infamous for this)
AMyone who puts much faith in the pollsters these days is kidding themselves. (Although Bob Casey can safely rest easy).
The Corker-Ford race appears to be the most erratic in terms of the polling data. Each race is different and there is some indication that the "Corker surge" is an anamoly. Statistics are not an exact science, but when you look at the aggragate of polling data, you can use it to spot fairly accurate trends.
My test will be the Casey-Santorum race. Everyone has written Santorum off except for, well, Santorum. If he somehow surges ahead, I will know that there's been some fraud.
I use a cell only and have never gotten a call from a politician, but one day I was sitting at work and my phone rang, I answered and heard "Let me tell you something brother!" It was a recorded call from Hulk Hogan reminding me to buy the WWE PPV the next night to see him return to the ring. I laughed for hours.
Re: the Corker-Ford race, they got a call at my wife's job yesterday from a Corker phonebot. A little girl's voice on the tape, claiming to be Corker's daughter/granddaughter, "Please vote for my daddy Bob Corker, 'cause he cares about y'all." Or words to that effect.
Gah. Makes me wanna puke.
And I just got an email from Michael Moore that actually does make me want to go vote, and after she gets off work I'm gonna drag the wife over there. This is much more important than local races, and several of those are pretty important to me. This is the election that determines whether or not the incumbent Republicans stay in power. Personally, I'd like to see every seat that's up for re-election filled by an independent, one who could care less about special interests and corporate agendas.
But that won't happen unless we make it so.
Miles
Bill Mulligan -
I wasn't aware of that.
Most people aren't. The only reason I am is because I'd worked a short stint as a telemarketer years ago, before the Do Not Call list came into existance, and it was the law then.
But they really stressed the rules at that job, because being in violation of the rules can get some fines that you really don't want to have to pay.
Any sources I can check?
I'm trying to check.
I'll be honest: mostly I say that there must be something in the Do Not Call list, otherwise people wouldn't have a complaint.
I haven't found anything yet relating to charities/politicians and if there's a difference between live calls and automated ones, so it's possible that those complaints won't stick in the end.
But the other stuff in violation of FCC rules should stick.
Also, FCC rules also say telemarketers cannot call cell phones (which means if you have a cell, you don't need to be on the DNC, but I signed up anyways), but again I can't find anything about politicians specifically.
The polls are wrong.
Well, I was referring to the exit polls. I should have been more precise. :)
Nothing has changed about the polls since before 2000, so I think that alone is evidence (versus proof... yes, that comes up again :)) that there have been serious issues the last few elections.
And, unfortunately, there are already reports of voting problems, today, from electronic machines not working, and so on.
Don't you Democrats DARE claim to be squeeky-clean. Voter fraud? How about Voter Harrassment?
Just heard one story of a guy in Maryland who, just because he had a Michael Steele bumper sticker on his car, was told by people outside the polling area that he had to go and park out on the street instead of being allowed to park in the parking lot.
Another story came of a guy who drove in the polling area in a cadillac and was immediately told "The Polls are CLOSED, REPUBLICAN, GO HOME!!"
He told them that if they continued that he would report them to the authorities inside the voting area, and they backed off...
Jesus, this is getting bad. And this isn't even a Presidential Election.
I'm getting the feeling that WE need to get NUKED, so that we can start over.
You know, in all these future post-holocaust movies, its assumed that the world got that way due to Nuclear War.
What if it got that way because we nuked ourselves in a kind of mass seppuku?
THERE'S something for you SF writers to explore...
Here in NH a phone jamming trick put a Republican in the US Senate.
(I'd like to repeat that because it sounds vaguely important.)
Here in NH a phone jamming trick put a Republican in the US Senate.
A Phone jamming plan ran by Chuck McGee of the NH RNC in 2002 told Democrats that Governor Jeanne Shaheen was so far ahead, not to go through extreme measures to go to the polls. John Sununu Jr. won by less than 10,000 votes. Mr. McGee spent time in Federal Prison. (And while I probably would not like Mr. McGee when he is angry, prison time made him quite pleased as Mr Sununu is now a United States Senator.)
Politicians use the Do Not Call List to AVOID homes that are on it. As any politician with their name on an actual ballot will tell you, you don't knock on a door with a "no soliciting" sign on it. You can physically do it but you will lose the vote of whoever answers the door.
Is it legal for politicians to call those on the Do Not Call list? Yes. But it is a stupid thing to do that loses votes. WHICH IS WHY THE REPUBLICANS PRETEND TO BE DEMOCRATS AND DO IT IN THE FIRST PLACE -- especially to independents and undecideds.
And before I field those responses, "Well who is stupid enough to believe that phone call." the point is not whether the dirty trick is effective or not, but the fact that it is a dirty trick at all.
Needless to say the present style of negative campaigning has made me wax nostalgic for the election of 1976 when we had two Boy Scouts running for President....
--Captain Naraht
Don't you Democrats DARE claim to be squeeky-clean.
Hmm. Last I checked, I didn't claim that.
So, once again, you're trying to put words in our mouths.
That's my last post in response you to, you little hoser. By the end of the day, I'm sure you'll be lying in the gutter, having slit your wrists after that air sac in your head deflates in the wake of a Republican collapse.
Thanks to Craig J. Ries for elaborating on my point (2002 phone jamming Seante race) earlier in the thread with a wikipedia link.
--The Capt.
P.S. I've always enjoyed Craig's posts. They are always grounded in logic, reason and respect for other's views.
Perhaps I caught Craig at a bad time...? YIKES.
--The Capt.
Meanwhile, some rather notable Dems are actually stumping with some Republican sounds. Anyone seen the recent blog posting by Orson Scott Card about the War on Terror? :)
"That's my last post in response you to, you little hoser. By the end of the day, I'm sure you'll be lying in the gutter, having slit your wrists after that air sac in your head deflates in the wake of a Republican collapse."
God help us if you guys get back into power--if that happens I'll be the first one to push the button to send us all to kingdom come
Ben Bradley---Hulk Hogan and Rowdy Roddy Piper both retired last century.
"God help us if you guys get back into power--if that happens I'll be the first one to push the button to send us all to kingdom come"
I think this is the first time I've really, really wanted PAD to allow smileys on his site. I've rarely seen a statement so full of melodrama that it really needs, and I mean NEEDS, a good :eyeroll to be applied.
You know what, Ben? If you don't like the results of the election so much, no one's keeping you here. You're free to wander off if that's what you want to do. I'll help you pack, if you really want to. I'll send you off, knowing that you're just a loser and a quitter.
I may have been amongst the losers for the past 6 years, but at least I'm not a quitter.
Captain Naraht -
Perhaps I caught Craig at a bad time...? YIKES.
*chuckle* Well, I hate to disagree with somebody who thinks so highly of my comments, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm not perfect.
And I do try and respect those that deserve it; obviously, this Ben Bradley fellow doesn't. :)
Hutch said: "(I would refuse to vote for candidates/parties bombarding me with calls and annoying the hell out of me)."
Yeah, but the problem is that you don't know who made the call---your candidate or the opposition.
Everyone has written Santorum off except for, well, Santorum. If he somehow surges ahead, I will know that there's been some fraud.
No you won't. It COULD mean that his voters were motivated enough to actually go vote, while Casey's support was a mile wide and an inch deep.
I don't expectthat to be the case at all. But this attitude that either my guy wins or it's proof of fraud at the polls is not supportable.
If every voter who supports Santorum actually voted he would win. But that is unlikely, to say the least. The question for him is how much better a turnout does he need to make up for the fact that more people support Casey. Given how far behind he seems to be I don't think he can do it. But what people tell pollsters can be very different from what they actually do in the privacy of the polling booth (one reason why black candidates often do worse on election day than the polls indicated--some people are reluctant to admit to not supporting a minority member.
"But what people tell pollsters can be very different from what they actually do in the privacy of the polling booth (one reason why black candidates often do worse on election day than the polls indicated--some people are reluctant to admit to not supporting a minority member."
Ok, so what...you believe the polls? You DON'T believe the polls?
Would you people make up your friggn' minds?
Or are you saying what I think you're saying--that you only believe the polls when they support your opinion?
So what happens to all these reports of "malfunctioning voting machines" if Democrats win? Do you guys just say "DUH, well, I guess they were OK after all."?
"So what happens to all these reports of "malfunctioning voting machines" if Democrats win? Do you guys just say "DUH, well, I guess they were OK after all."?"
At least for me, I don't want to see electronic polling machines at all. If the Dems do win, I hope they make the use of such machines illegal, unless they also produce a paper trail. I've seen people claim that a paper voting receipt isn't a good idea, but at least have a report that the voter can review to confirm what their vote was, and then store those paper votes as a way to perform a re-count. or at least to verify the electronic results.
Everyone should vote using Scan-Tron as far as I am concerned.
Well, irony isn't dead after all:
In Ohio, "two Republican House members reportedly encountered difficulties at their respective polling stations. U.S. Rep. Steve Chabot was said to be turned away for not having proper identification, and Rep. Jean Schmidt could not get the scanner to accept her ballot."
Also...
"In Cleveland, voters rolled their eyes as election workers fumbled with new touchscreen machines that they couldn't get to start properly until about 10 minutes after polls opened."
"In Indiana's Marion County, about 175 of 914 precincts turned to paper because poll workers didn't know how to run the machines, said Marion County Clerk Doris Ann Sadler."
I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.
"At least for me, I don't want to see electronic polling machines at all. If the Dems do win, I hope they make the use of such machines illegal, unless they also produce a paper trail. I've seen people claim that a paper voting receipt isn't a good idea, but at least have a report that the voter can review to confirm what their vote was, and then store those paper votes as a way to perform a re-count. or at least to verify the electronic results."
Let's include with that MANDATORY checking of ID's when going to vote...I went in to vote today, and showed my voter's card. The lady at the desk checked it, and then I pulled out my driver's license and she said "Uh...oh...OK."
I looked at her and said "what do you mean OK!!??" Aren't you supposed to check for ID's? She looked dumbfounded, so I just sighed and went to do my civic duty.
I find it morally reprehensible that I have to show several forms of ID and have a hand scan just to enter a computer datacenter to work on mainframes, yet I can go and vote with pretty much just a "oh hi, its me...just gonna go vote..."
Voting is a privelige of citizenship, not a privelige of simply BREATHING.
"Voting is a privelige of citizenship, not a privelige of simply BREATHING."
Which clearly explains why many of the deceased often end up voting in Chicago.
"Which clearly explains why many of the deceased often end up voting in Chicago."
....and voting Democrat.
Guess that means Dr. Frankenstein was a Democrat.
I guess with their position on embryonic stem cell research that assumption is a no-brainer (pardon the pun.)
"....and voting Democrat.
Guess that means Dr. Frankenstein was a Democrat.
I guess with their position on embryonic stem cell research that assumption is a no-brainer (pardon the pun.)"
If you mean Chicago proper, yeah, I think they lean Left. But there's plenty of areas in Chicagoland that vote Republican. Good ole Denny Haster is from Illinois, after all.
"God help us if you guys get back into power--if that happens I'll be the first one to push the button to send us all to kingdom come"
Man, they give that button to just ANYBODY these days...
Ok, so what...you believe the polls? You DON'T believe the polls?
Would you people make up your friggn' minds?
Different people, different opinions, ya shmuck. For example, I think you're a democratic plant, trying to look like a stupid republican. Otheres think you're a stupid republican. So it goes.
"Different people, different opinions, ya shmuck. For example, I think you're a democratic plant, trying to look like a stupid republican. Otheres think you're a stupid republican. So it goes."
Is there a third option? After checking some of Ben's other posts, I'd be surprised if there's anyone that would actually willingly claim any affiliation with him.
I don't expectthat to be the case at all. But this attitude that either my guy wins or it's proof of fraud at the polls is not supportable.
It's not because I don't like Santorum. It's that when different polls from different polling agencies consistantly show a candidate losing by a wide margin, there has to be some truth to the data. Except for the one poll that Santorum hired a convicted felon to run, every poll shows him down by 10 points or so. Plus, the polls show that the people who dislike him are far more passionate than his supporters are. So, if he wins, the most plausible explanation is that there was fraud.
And yes, I find it sad that the majority of people voting for Casey are doing it mainly to vote against Santorum.
Looking at some of today's blogs, though, it's not surprising that republicans have suddenly discovered voter fraud. It looks like they're going to spend at least the next two years crying about "stolen" elections, just like the democrats have for the past six.
And I think Ben is just a troll. It's just that he's chosen the GOP side to be as offensive towards PAD as possible.
Bill Myers- The Cybermen wouldn't help him. Santorum is a conservative Christian who opposes abortion, embryonic stem cell research, and Cyberization.
He is not eligible for upgrade. He will be deleted.
I know that's how I voted...
Well, I voted, and as usual, I split my ticket. In my opinion, no party ever puts together a perfect slate of candidates, and no party ever represents my views across the board.
Frankly, I don't even know why there are two major parties these days. If you look at the buying, reading and viewing habits of Americans over the past 30 years or so, it all has become much more fragmented and diverse.
In 1970, the average TV viewer in the U.S. had 4-10 channels available to view, depending on whether they were in an urban or rural area. Today their are hundreds. The newsstand was no different. Instead of 50 or so titles of magazines on the average rack, one can go to a Borders where there are hundreds of title on many racks. Ditto the diversity of comics available (I remember when every comic published could fit on one spinner rack in a corner drug store). And in the arena of food or other products, the diversity is also enormous compared to the old days.
So why not a more diverse collection of political parties? I. for one, think it's long overdue.
As someone who occasionally does some volunteer graphic design work for a local Democratic party district in Oregon, I have pleaded with them on numerous occasions to put a halt to those incredibly annoying canned phone calls. So far, nobody's listened to me.
R. Maheras, we've got two parties because it's winner take all. With products, if you buy one magazine, that publisher gets the profit from that one magazine sold. If it were like elections, the bookstore would take count of how many people wanted to buy each magazine. The mag with the highest number of votes would win, and everyone that wanted a magazine would get a copy of the winning mag. Were that the case, I can see writers pushing to get into the winning mag as often as possible.
Its the same with our political parties. Take the recently departed Foley...as a gay man, his personal lifestyle conflicts with a good portion of the base GOP platform. Yet he was supported by the party because he could win...and he likely turned from the Democrats to the GOP because he couldn't win as a Democrat.
Each seat may be winner take all, but other countries have more than two parties and manage to function. Three or more parties in Congress might force the formation of coalitions to assign leadership positions in the House and Senate. That alone might foster more cooperation between parties as the party A wouldn't be able to ignore parties B and C if they needed one or both of them to form a coalition.
The real sticking point would be that it would be harder to get a majority in the electoral college for president. In which case, I'd be pushing hard to amend the consitution to allow for runoff elections or scrapping the EC altogether.
My girlfriend and I use cell phones exclusively -- no land lines. So we haven't gotten these robo-calls. But I spoke with my parents last night and they've been getting hammered with 'em.
My girlfriend has been getting sick of the political junk mail, though. When she was coming home last night she saw a campaign volunteer for Hillary Clinton about to leave a leaflet for us. She stopped the woman and told her, "PLEASE don't leave that for us. We already know how we're going to vote, thanks."
I cast my votes this morning. As I pulled the levers for each of my choices, I kept thinking, "OK, now I hope this guy will shut up for a while... and now this guy, too... yeah, and this guy, too..."
Posted by: Rich Drees at November 7, 2006 01:54 PM
"Bill Myers- The Cybermen wouldn't help him. Santorum is a conservative Christian who opposes abortion, embryonic stem cell research, and Cyberization.
"He is not eligible for upgrade. He will be deleted."
I know that's how I voted...
The thing is, the Cybermen are a one-issue party. With them it's all "upgrade this" and "delete that."
The Borg are no better. "Irrelevant." "Resistance is futile." "From this time forward you will service us." What the hell kind of platform is THAT?
"OK, now I hope this guy will shut up for a while... and now this guy, too... yeah, and this guy, too..."
You may say I'm a dreamer...
How soon before the early voting results get leaked?
Ok, my final prediction-- Democrat near sweep. The GOP comeback came too late. Dems take house with 25 new seats. Senate goes to 50/50 which would mean that Cheney will be very busy. Lieberman makes Democrats sweat that he may jump ship but he will ultimately stay with the Democrats.
If the Democrats even take the Senate I won't be shocked.
On the other hand, if Steele wins the it will be a much smaller Democrat victory. If Allen loses it will be a Republican bloodbath. So we should know early tonight which party will be crying the most.
If the Republican, by some miracle, hold the House...expect the most vicious backbiting intraparty squabbling ever within the Democrats. But this is a very very unlikely outcome.
I'm back from the polls, and I screwed both parties by voting independent pretty much across the board. The one instance where I didn't was a state senate race where the incumbent was running unopposed. In every other race, I voted for independents I knew.
We'll see how my little drop in the bucket will affect the results. Now Mike Moore can bitch at me about something else.
"I think you're a democratic plant, trying to look like a stupid republican. Others think you're a stupid republican."
Well, I was going for just plain stupid. Period. Full stop. No party listing needed.
"Hulk Hogan and Rowdy Roddy Piper both retired last century."
Geez.... I wish. It's bad enough that they keep bringing Hogan back in to bash guys in the head with his walker. At least he still looks like he's in the kind of shape to go in the ring. But they scared millions of people Sunday night by bringing piper, in his old black trunks and boots, in to tag with Flair and LETTING THEM WIN THE FREAKING TAG BELTS. It was not something you want to find photos of.
(Does Sideshow Bob voice) Ewwwwwwwww.....
I'm honestly surprised that Vince went for that. I know a bunch of guys in the rasslin' biz, and most of them are about my age; this includes Rick Flehir and Rod Toombes, known to y'all as Flair and Piper. They know it's a work, and Vince pays them well for their knowledge and stagecraft, because face it, professional wrestling is not far removed from its carnival sideshow roots.
I doubt seriously that Rick and Rod would do all that well in a straight shoot, but in a work match, where they're supposed to win, they have a good a chance as the next guy.
Miles
Yeah, Miles, but they should still, work or not, think about how dumb it looks to have a guy that out of shape who hasn't been in a ring in years come in and win belts off of the guys that Vince and crew SHOULD be building up.
I love Slick Rick from a long time ago, but he's not the present or future of the biz. Piper even less so. Both guys still have a whole hell of a lot to give to the biz. Just not in the ring and not as champs.
These guys learned the art back when you didn't tell the public that it was an act. They learned how to make it look real and how to sell and tell a story in the ring in ways that a lot of the younger guys fail to do these days because they're focus is on flashy moves and cool tricks (not always a bad thing if balanced). They should be teachers to a generation that REALLY needs to learn the craft better. I just think they could do that best from behind the scenes these days.
Plus, Piper REALLY needs some tan in the can before he ever takes his shirt off again. Geez, and I thought I was white.
Starwolf: And how many viable calls has it intercepted by mistake?
Actually, none! Live people can choose to announce themselves, I intercept without blocking (which is another feature).
Man, Webb over Allen, as the tally stands now, by only 1200 votes. More votes to be counted.
This is going to be one hell of a long night in the Commonwealth.
This is going to be one hell of a long night in the Commonwealth.
It's going to be a long night anywhere where it's a close race.
They just said on MSNBC that Santorum's campaign has already filed a complaint alledging that votes for Santorum were either not counted or miscounted. Ahh, Santorum is one bugger I can't wait to see pack up and move out of his DC office.
Yeah, I saw. I'm doing the MSNBC online vid thing in the background.
God, did you see the results out of the Sunshine State? Harris did sooooo well.
The Fox News Zoo and Hannity must be weeping over that one. They pushed her so much on their network and his radio show.
Geez.... I wish. It's bad enough that they keep bringing Hogan back in to bash guys in the head with his walker. At least he still looks like he's in the kind of shape to go in the ring. But they scared millions of people Sunday night by bringing piper, in his old black trunks and boots, in to tag with Flair and LETTING THEM WIN THE FREAKING TAG BELTS. It was not something you want to find photos of.
If Piper were any whiter he'd be transparent.
Guy's only got about 3 moves left but that's only about 2 less than he had in his prime. He was never exactly Lou Thesz.
Flair, OTOH, can still pull a great match out of his saggy ass.
Fox just called PA for Casey. Santorum...buh-bye.
MSNBC called Ct for Lieberman, but based on exit polls only--the actual vote counts I saw had Lamont slightly ahead.
I don't know, after Florida I would think they might actually wait until the vote count reflects the prediction before calling it.
Chafee loses in RI (again, by exit polls). If true that eleiminates an interesting scenario--he's the one republican who would have been most likely to jump to the Democrats in the event of a 50/50 tie.
Said tie is now less likely.
Yeah, I was about to post the same thing. They've called a few races now where the "winner" was 10% or so behind the "loser" and only a small amount of the actual vote in.
I don't know, after Florida I would think they might actually wait until the vote count reflects the prediction before calling it.
One would think.
Florida aside, where there were enough irregularities to show that the exit polls probably had it right, they're accurate.
But I'm still always amazed when they can 'call' a race when there's only 500 votes officially counted, which is basically what happened in the Casey/Santorum race.
Here's one thing that is very frustrating. the reason that polls are usually so accurate is that, unfortunately, we vote so predictably. That's why people can "project" a winner with 5 % of the vote, sometimes, because based on voting histories, the rest of the state/district always votes a certain way.
I, for one, would like more people to confound pollsters. It would make for a more vibrant, thoughtful democracy.