October 28, 2006

COWBOY PETE'S TV ROUND-UP: DOCTOR WHO, BATTLESTAR GALACTICA

At this point I'm starting to wish that the series had been called anything BUT "Battlestar Galactica," because ANYTHING that prevents people watching this--possibly one of the finest SF series ever--is truly unfortunate. And Doctor Who ain't no slouch either. Spoilers below:

I thought last week's episode featuring the wrenching scene of Tigh dispatching his wife was a highlight of emotional agony. Apparently, though, they were just getting warmed up for this week's episode as a Star Chamber of Galactica regulars kidnaps, judges, and executes anyone who cooperated with the Cylons during the occupation of New Caprica. Watching Jammer futilely beg for his life was just heartbreaking, especially when we're watching such heroic characters as the chief turning a deaf ear. And, of course, the real kicker is that we have a situation where hidden tribunals, torture and death are sanctioned by the head of a Democratic government. That could NEVER happen in the real world.

The best SF comments on the real world using science fiction trappings. BSG does more than comment: It lances all perceptions, taking the people we sympathize with, casting them in the most unsympathetic roles imaginable, and practically daring us to remain on their side. Long-time friendships are shattered, alliances are formed between former enemies. Everything remains fluid, and yet nothing (aside from the occasional seer) feels contrived. Plus Richard Hatch's role looks to be expanded, which is great as far as I'm concerned, and I'd love to see him expanded to full-time regular status.

DOCTOR WHO: Okay, this is kinda killing me, because as fantastic as the launch of the two-parter re-introducing the Cybermen was, I gotta say...without spoiling anything...that they're just getting warmed up. See, I've seen all the episodes through to the season ender, and that's what I'd REALLY like to be talking about, but it's too unfair. So I'll simply say to all of you who are seeing it for the first time on the Sci-Fi Channel--just wait. The return of Pete and the alternate world, and the return of the Cybermen--more formidable than ever--is just the first act in a superb season that will increasingly feel like a rollercoaster ride. Enjoy it.

PAD

Posted by Peter David at October 28, 2006 07:54 AM | TrackBack | Other blogs commenting
Comments
Posted by: edhopper at October 28, 2006 08:38 AM

First post!!
If you include the Heroes rerun at 7, SciFi Friday is without doubt the best night of television on. (Especially considering how weak lost has been this year.)

Posted by: Sadbhyl at October 28, 2006 08:57 AM

Okay, now I'm a little disappointed. Not with your roundup, because I agree absolutely. And as someone else who has scene the whole season, it was agony not to spoil my husband and son for what's to come, so I share your pain! But no, it's the fact that you didn't do a commentary on last week's Girl in the Fireplace. You had briefly mentioned before that you really liked it, and I was curious about your reasons, as I found it one of the weakest of the whole season. I think partly that was placement, falling as it did between School Reunion and Rise, but I found the characterization very weak and the plot...um...thin. Care to share your thoughts?

Posted by: Rich Lane at October 28, 2006 09:15 AM

The update of the Cybermen's look is impressive, they remind me quite a bit of Marvel's Ultron in their current incarnation.

I can't disagree with you on anything about Battlestar Galactica. My only request is they get Apollo out of the fat suit as quick as possible because he looks like, well, an athletic guy wearing a fat suit.

Posted by: El hombre Malo at October 28, 2006 09:18 AM

Finally got the whole second season of BSG here and managed to get Heroes up to the fourth episode (Still not on air in Spain, obviously).

Quality of TV fiction have improved in the last few years. I had almost stopped watching TV except for Buffy and Angel (and I got late into those), but now I cant miss House, BSG, Gillmore Girlsm Family Guy, Weeds...

Posted by: Miles Vorkosigan at October 28, 2006 10:12 AM

Yeah, Evil Twin, I was kinda puzzled by your lack of comment on "Girl in the Fireplace" as well. One of the best Who episodes I've seen, with damn good effects, a tidy story, and the presence of Sophia Myles, who to these old eyes is quite possibly one of the most beautiful women alive.

But yes, last night's Cybermen show kicked ass.

There's only one thing for it. I'm gonna have to turn browncoat, rob a bank or six, and buy the whole series on disc. Yeah, right. :/

Posted by: Alex Tucker at October 28, 2006 10:21 AM

Roslin's speech at the end of the episode was absolutely necessary and made me pump my fist with am emphatic "YES!" Once again the producers of the show are giving us the best political commentary I've seen in many a moon, and it's certainly something almost unheard of in the age of Dubya.

Kids, this is a current administration where vengeance and abuse of power are the rule of law, and justice is a weak word for those who would coddle the guilty. Not the accused, mind; the guilty, because the neocons have long decided that. We live in an age where 'due process of law' and a 'jury of one's peers' are no longer foundations of our country, just namby-pamby liberal concepts.

"We must not confuse justice with vengeance."

Here's hoping one day soon we can hear someone in power say that outside of a TV show.

Posted by: mister_pj at October 28, 2006 11:45 AM

BSG - aside from parellels to current day events, the thing I happened to enjoy more than anything at the end was Hatch’s character explanation of why he chose to go down that road.

Secret Tribunal or not, the beginning of the episode led you in the direction of believing this was vigilante justice plain and simple.

Much of the dialog in discussions of guilt or innocence furthered that edge, Tigh’s speech midway through the show about carrying out justice was a redeeming one for his character in that it showed while there was a vengeful edge to his actions, he at the same time considered it dirty business and felt a responsibility to carry out these actions within the framework of legality.

Later on, when Hatch’s character explains all the reasons to avoid long, drawn out legal proceedings - I hate to say but, there was an amount of logic in his reasoning I could agree with.

The prospect of a fleet preoccupied with delivering justice and it occupying its attention for months on end along with the accompanying discord, celebrity and matyrdom at a time when resources need to be directed towards preserving humanity was a harsh decision to be made but, a necessary one.

It’s interesting as I think this is a theme the writiers keep revisiting as it echoed the Kane story arc of last season - desperate times calling for desperate measures.

The save for Gaeta at the end was a little obvious as he's been such a large part of the show and I couldn't see them killing him off.

No mention of Baltar though?

I thought the sequences with Baltar were quite interesting. While viewers all along knew the depths of his betrayal, it is only recently he has publicly become a traitor to his species and even in this it is not entirely as clear cut as one would like. Baltar has all the elements in the new BSG of some Shakespearean figure, all the tragedy and conflict taking place on a grand stage. It‘s a really nice touch.

Doctor Who is beginning to grow on me once more. I was really missing Christopher Eccleston but, the new Doc is winning me over and the last two weeks I’ve found myself enjying the show quite a bit. SciFi is making it necessary to stay in on Friday nights because they offer so much good viewing.

I was a bit disappointed Threshold wasn’t back as it was a series I had hoped would have legs but, if they were to slot a Dead Like Me into Friday nights I wouldn’t complain either.

Oh and unfortunately IMDB has a full episode list including spoilers for the season (where I went to get Christopher Eccleston proper name spelling) but, it looks like the season is a rollercoaster ride and I’m looking forward to it.

Posted by: mister_pj at October 28, 2006 11:47 AM

Oh, yeah and I got Chris’ name right but didn’t paste in my spell corrected post - ugghhhh! I hate not being able to edit things sometimes.

Posted by: Rich Lane at October 28, 2006 11:49 AM

Much of the dialog in discussions of guilt or innocence furthered that edge, Tigh’s speech midway through the show about carrying out justice was a redeeming one for his character in that it showed while there was a vengeful edge to his actions, he at the same time considered it dirty business and felt a responsibility to carry out these actions within the framework of legality.

I agree, but it also pointed out a flaw in his reasoning--justice unsanctioned by the society it is supposed to protect is not really justice at all.

Posted by: Jerry C at October 28, 2006 01:40 PM

Talk about one night really showing why second chances are a good thing.

I am soooooo glad that I gave BSG a second chance. I hated the concept, I hated the early buzz and I hated the mini. I came into it by accident at the tail end of season one and starting giving it a chance. Know? I bug the living hell out of friends who haven't given it a second look.

I was iffy on the new Cybermen. I had seen the still photos in Starburst and Cult Times and they kinda left me cold. I've been stung lots of times by still photos making something look cool that just ends up looking so sad on film. These, I thought, would be utter crap.

Then I saw them walking in the dark. Daleks never scared me. I always thought they looked a bit silly. The early versions of the Cybermen could creep me out due to the concept. These Cybermen? They could scare me.

The producers of the new Who deserve a huge ovation for that. I've rarely been pulled into the moment by an image or a scene to the point that I know that what I'm looking at would scare the pants off of me if I saw it in real life. These Cybermen did that.

God, I am soooo loving this new Who.

Posted by: Jerry C at October 28, 2006 01:47 PM

That would be "Now" & not "Know" up there.

Geez.

Posted by: Bill Myers at October 28, 2006 02:41 PM

Posted by mister_pj at October 28, 2006 11:45 AM

The prospect of a fleet preoccupied with delivering justice and it occupying its attention for months on end along with the accompanying discord, celebrity and matyrdom at a time when resources need to be directed towards preserving humanity was a harsh decision to be made but, a necessary one.

I think you're missing the point of the episode. Had it not been for Starbuck's desire for a cathartic moment, Tyrol would never have realized Gaeta was the "deep throat" without whose information humanity would never have defeated the Cylon occupation. Watch that scene again, and look at the faces of the people on the "secret jury," particularly Tigh's. They realize that in their lust for vengeance, they were about to murder a hero.

That happened because this "secret jury" was operating outside of the bounds of due process. I think the writers made it clear -- this wasn't a necessary evil, but merely an evil.

Posted by: Shawn Levasseur at October 28, 2006 02:43 PM

"At this point I'm starting to wish that the series had been called anything BUT "Battlestar Galactica," because ANYTHING that prevents people watching this--possibly one of the finest SF series ever--is truly unfortunate."-PAD

That presumes that the tie to the original series is nothing but an albatross around the neck of this show. I disagree. The link to the original helped get this show on the air, and helped get much of it's initial audience.

Posted by: Bill Myers at October 28, 2006 02:54 PM

Posted by: Shawn Levasseur at October 28, 2006 02:43 PM

That presumes that the tie to the original series is nothing but an albatross around the neck of this show.

No, it doesn't. The link to the original show did indeed help get the current series on the air, and that selfsame link is undeniably what attracted many people to the show initially (like me). But the name "Battlestar Galactica" is almost certainly keeping other people from watching the show, particularly those who have a bias against science fiction. Those are not mutually exclusive. Both conditions can simultaneously be true.

Posted by: Jason M. Bryant at October 28, 2006 03:35 PM

I especially liked Tom's speech. The one where he talked about the accused getting high class representation, blaming the system, getting all kinds of media attention, and dragging things out for years. He's right, all those things would happen, and they're all things we hate. But the price is still too much, and I think the episode illustrated that beautifully.

Posted by: mister_pj at October 28, 2006 03:57 PM

Hey Bill,

No, I didn’t miss it. As a matter of fact Gaeta’s involvement as the ‘deep throat’ of Baltar’s administration was very clearly still not enough to mollify a lot of the people who felt Baltar and anyone who was even associated with him had sold out the human race.

Chief was expressing apprehension about the whole process well before they got around to determining Gaeta’s fate - it was readily clear.

The impression remained a few of the people on the tribunal walked away feeling Gaeta’s actions during the occupation deserved capital punishment - the point being a capital sentence would not and could not in fact be carried out by the tribunal without full agreement by all its members.

I disagree with you in the issue of the tribunal being decidedly evil, certainly the story was clear how ambiguous the tribunals actions were - certainly there were reasons against conducting tribunals as well as for conducting the tribunals.

The biggest caution obviously being, the survivors would be one more step closer to losing the veneer of civility and rule of law upon which their society functioned. It would put them one step closer to the ruthlessness exhibited by the Cylons in their attack upon humanity.

I think a bigger issue here was whether or not proceedings of this nature had to be conducted out in the open or whether the rule of law still would be able to provide a framework within which justice could still be served albeit outside of the arena of public opinion and scrutiny.

I’m not coming down on either side here - not in BSG or in real world events. What I liked about the episode in particular though was in that it displayed how these issues are not quite as clear cut as we would like or be comfortable with.

Posted by: Robert Fuller at October 28, 2006 05:04 PM

"But the name "Battlestar Galactica" is almost certainly keeping other people from watching the show, particularly those who have a bias against science fiction."

I don't think the name has anything to do with keeping away people with a bias against sci-fi. I think the fact that it's a sci-fi show keeps away people who have a bias against sci-fi. That, and the fact that it's on the SCI-FI CHANNEL (which is what keeps me away, since I don't get that channel).

Posted by: Lee Houston, Jr. at October 28, 2006 05:18 PM

I have been a fan of both Doctor Who and Battlestar: Galactica since William Hartnell's Doctor first owned the Tardis and Lorne Greene commanded the rag tag fugitive fleet. But while I question playing around with the Doctor's personal history (being the last Time Lord and the ramifications there of, as hinted at during "Girl in the Fireplace") these are definitely worth successors of the originals.
Galactica is definitely a vision not only of the previous series, but of the present as well. There wasn't a sour note in the whole episode, especially Zarek's reasoning for the war crimes tribunal. Not the proper way to procede, but the logic was sound. Not a vendetta or revenge, just one perception of justice.
Meanwhile in Doctor Who, since no one else has commented upon the fact before now, am I the only one who is seeing parallels between John Lumic and the origin (revival) of the new Cybermen versus Davros and the creation of the Daleks?

Posted by: Darren J Hudak at October 28, 2006 05:23 PM

// "But the name "Battlestar Galactica" is almost certainly keeping other people from watching the show, particularly those who have a bias against science fiction."

I don't think the name has anything to do with keeping away people with a bias against sci-fi. I think the fact that it's a sci-fi show keeps away people who have a bias against sci-fi. That, and the fact that it's on the SCI-FI CHANNEL (which is what keeps me away, since I don't get that channel). //


Sure it does, add me to the list of folks who didn't watch this series until recently because of the name, hell I can even remember saying to people, "why would I watch a revivial of something that was really bad to begin with". Not the first time in my life I didn't catch onto something good because I couldn't get past the name. A name can do a mean a lot, I maintan that if Firefly was called Star Trek:Firefly it would probably still be on the air.

Posted by: Sean Scullion at October 28, 2006 06:48 PM

BSG excels at one thing, and one thing only.

That said, the one thing is they excel at putting out a REALLY great show. Consistently. Even among all my other favorite shows of all time, I mean, even MASH had a clunker or two and can anybody say Shades of Gray? I don't remember the last time I thought that about a Galactica episode. The characters are real, they're deep, and there isn't a mustache-twirler in the bunch.

The new Who? (I swear the first person to say "revue" is going to be smacked silly.) Even when it's bad, it's good. And it ain't bad too often. The Doctor just exudes joie de vivre(sorry if that's misspelled, I took Spanish in school) all the time. Hey, that could be described as the central theme of the show. Be happy wherever you are, there's joy in everything. (Or was that just obvious and I'm REALLY slow on the uptake?)

Posted by: Robert Fuller at October 28, 2006 06:59 PM

"Sure it does, add me to the list of folks who didn't watch this series until recently because of the name"

Yes, but do you have a bias against sci-fi?

Posted by: JamesLynch at October 28, 2006 07:32 PM

I taped pt. 1 of the Cybermen return, and while I liked season 1 of the revamped series, this season is blowing me away! The Doctor is back to his more quirky, eccentric self (tempered by the mortality of those humans he comes to like/love). We've seen the difficulty for former companions, a Doctor more willing to kill, and even the Doctor fall in love. (Though my one problem with "The Girl in the Fireplace" {spoiler if you didn't see that episode): The Doctor was upset he didn't return to see Madame de Pompadour until after his death -- but why couldn't he just use the Tardis to visit her before her death?) 'Tis very impressive indeed!

Posted by: Jen Hachigian at October 28, 2006 09:17 PM

It's not the name that keeps me from watching Battlestar Galactica. It's the camera.

My husband and I watched the mini-series because of the name. The new Vipers look great. By the end of the mini-series, however, we gave up on the show because of the shaky-cam. Even the CG shots suffered unsteady CG cameras. Nothing stayed in frame, and important actions got lost. For example, two nuclear warheads struck the Battlestar Galactica...and the mindless camera missed BOTH impacts! We could not enjoy the story because of the annoying, distracting camerawork. :^(

I look forwards to someday catching up on the modern Doctor Who, though. :^)

Posted by: RaLoren at October 28, 2006 09:43 PM

"Though my one problem with "The Girl in the Fireplace" {spoiler if you didn't see that episode): The Doctor was upset he didn't return to see Madame de Pompadour until after his death -- but why couldn't he just use the Tardis to visit her before her death?)"

He mentioned this in the episode. By going to her time, he made himself part of the events and as such he couldn't go with the Tardis. Even if Rose could have figured out how to fly the Tardis again, she couldn't have gone back to get him because she'd made herself a part of the events by going there to talk to Reinette.

Ra!

Posted by: Mark C. Dooley at October 28, 2006 09:59 PM

I totally agree with Cowboy Pete's accessment of this new season of Doctor Who. We ran all of the 28th season episodes at a recent sci-fi/fantasy convention, including the two-part finale. As I did when I got the first part, come the last few seconds of "Army of Ghosts", a packed video room full of fans gasped, laughed, and applauded as they realized they were watching British TV history being made.

I shut it down just as the previews were to start as to not spoil anything. "We're gonna take five minutes, catch our breaths, kinda let this all soak in... and then we're gonna kick you in the head again."

Posted by: Seamus Bradley at October 28, 2006 10:41 PM

I completely agree with Peter on BSG, theres really nothing else to be said... Well except this, even though the Cardinals were playing the Tigers I still changed the channel to watch BSG which is saying something for me. Also before this weeks episode I was worried, like I have been in the past, that BSG couldn't get any better and that it was all down hill from here. Because quite literally how more badass does a show get than Exodus part 1 and 2? Well this episode and the preview for next week assured me that it will indeed continue to be on the top.

In regards to Dr. Who though I wasn't too impressed, probably due to the fact that I haven't seen much of Who before two weeks ago. But with Peter's roller coaster comment I'll be tuning in again next week.

Posted by: Joel Finkle at October 28, 2006 10:54 PM

Lee Houston, Jr.>...am I the only one who is seeing parallels between ...the new Cybermen versus Davros and the creation of the Daleks?

Darn you, Lee: I wanted to be the first to say that. Especially in a wheelchair, and "next step in evolution" they're definitely paralleling Davros.
It's also got some nice homage to old-school Doctor Who shlock: the earpieces -- and especially the head-handle they generate -- provide a nice, silly link to the Doctor Whos of the past.

Posted by: Tom Galloway at October 28, 2006 11:46 PM

Particularly liked the bit about Mickey's parallel being named Ricky...which is what the Doctor had persisted in calling Mickey for the longest time.

And while I understand why he can't use the Tardis to go into Madame's timeline up to his appearance at her 37th birthday, the question is why he didn't use the (somewhat at least) more reliable Tardis to pop in sooner than her death at 43 rather than the skipping years at a time fireplace.

As a final side note, I've read that the actors playing the Doctor and Madame are romantically involved in real life.

Posted by: Iowa Jim at October 28, 2006 11:59 PM

A name can do a mean a lot, I maintan that if Firefly was called Star Trek:Firefly it would probably still be on the air.

That is a qualified "maybe" in my opinion. Just look at Enterprise. I do agree it would have more likely been on a full season.

And, of course, the real kicker is that we have a situation where hidden tribunals, torture and death are sanctioned by the head of a Democratic government. That could NEVER happen in the real world.

You know, these comments sure get old. But believe what you want to believe.


Iowa Jim

Posted by: Jason M. Bryant at October 29, 2006 01:31 AM

Since people are talking about Girl in the Fireplace, I'll mention my one little disappointment with the episode.

Near the end, the Doctor thought he was stuck in the past with no way back to the Tardis. He started talking about having to get money, which he'd never figured out. Then he found a way back.

For a brief moment, I thought he wouldn't find a quick way back, but would instead have to spend 100 years or so living life by "taking the slow path." I really wanted to see that. Even if they didn't actually show it, even if the Doctor just popped up in front of Rose and said "Well, it took 100 years, but I managed to build something that would get me back," I still wanted it to happen.

I wanted it because I think that the experience would be something incredibly different for the Doctor. He's basically been running away throughout all his adventures. He left Gallifrey to seek adventure. He avoided Gallifrey completely for a long time because they wanted him to be President. The Sara-Jane episode even had him talk about how he can't keep companions too long because he has to watch them grow old and die. That's hundred of years of running away, living life one adventure at a time.

What would happen to the Doctor's head if he had to live a plain and simple life for awhile? No alien invasions, no murderous cyborgs, just a day job and a girl. What if he actually had to face his fear of watching the people around him grow old and die? Even if we didn't actually see the life he led during that time, I think the effect on him would be fascinating.

Perhaps it's something that they could return to in the future.

Posted by: Rob in Japan at October 29, 2006 04:17 AM

In re: The Girl in the Fireplace:

The way I see it is this: The Doctor can't go back and change things he's personally witnessed, as he can't change his own timeline, right? So, since he witnessed the funeral bier of Reinette on it's carriage, it has become an event in his own timeline; thus, he can't change it. If he did, the contents of the letter from Reinette would have been different.

Now that I type it out, it sounds a bit weaker than I thought, though. Anyway, this episode has a new frontrunner in "most heartbreaking TV moments according to Rob:"

The Doctor: Wish me luck!
Reinette: (heartfelt) No!

Posted by: Rob in Japan at October 29, 2006 04:19 AM

In re: The Girl in the Fireplace:

The way I see it is this: The Doctor can't go back and change things he's personally witnessed, as he can't change his own timeline, right? So, since he witnessed the funeral bier of Reinette on it's carriage, it has become an event in his own timeline; thus, he can't change it. If he did, the contents of the letter from Reinette would have been different.

Now that I type it out, it sounds a bit weaker than I thought, though. Anyway, this episode has a new frontrunner in "most heartbreaking TV moments according to Rob:"

The Doctor: Wish me luck!
Reinette: (heartfelt) No!

Posted by: Rob Hansen at October 29, 2006 04:37 AM

Rob in Japan: You may not have seen this yet, but I think the final scene of season 2 ender 'Doomsday' tops it for most heartbreaking moment.

Incidentally, I gather Sci-Fi cut the scene where the homeless guys are converted to Cybermen. Fortunately, some kind person has posted this at YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB94G9K-nVM

Posted by: Bill Myers at October 29, 2006 05:20 AM

Posted by: Lee Houston, Jr. at October 28, 2006 05:18 PM

Meanwhile in Doctor Who, since no one else has commented upon the fact before now, am I the only one who is seeing parallels between John Lumic and the origin (revival) of the new Cybermen versus Davros and the creation of the Daleks?

I thought the same thing! But I didn't mention it because it had been so long since I'd seen the Who episdoes with Davros (I was just a little kid), and I wasn't sure if the parallels were merely in my imagination.

But now that you've chimed in, I know I'm not crazy. Or, if I am crazy, that it's a separate issue.

Posted by: Bill Myers at October 29, 2006 05:33 AM

Posted by: mister_pj at October 28, 2006 03:57 PM

No, I didn’t miss it. As a matter of fact Gaeta’s involvement as the ‘deep throat’ of Baltar’s administration was very clearly still not enough to mollify a lot of the people who felt Baltar and anyone who was even associated with him had sold out the human race.

Oh, agreed. The fact that only Tyrol would sit with him in the mess hall bears that out. I think just underscores my point, though. The writers were trying to show that healing, not vengeance, is the path the colonists need to take. Tyrol consciously chose to sit with Gaeta to help start the healing.

The impression remained a few of the people on the tribunal walked away feeling Gaeta’s actions during the occupation deserved capital punishment - the point being a capital sentence would not and could not in fact be carried out by the tribunal without full agreement by all its members.

True. I was mostly focused on the reactions of Tyrol, Starbuck, and Tigh. I think they really seemed to "get it."

I disagree with you in the issue of the tribunal being decidedly evil, certainly the story was clear how ambiguous the tribunals actions were - certainly there were reasons against conducting tribunals as well as for conducting the tribunals.

I would agree with you if the episode hadn't ended with Laura Roslin creating a "truth and reconciliation" process. It's certainly no coincidence that they named this after the commission South Africa set up to help them move forward after the horrible wounds created by the atrocity of apartheid.

Posted by: mister_pj at October 28, 2006 03:57 PM

I’m not coming down on either side here - not in BSG or in real world events. What I liked about the episode in particular though was in that it displayed how these issues are not quite as clear cut as we would like or be comfortable with.

Oh, I don't think the writers were trying to portray anything as particularly clear-cut. That's why Tom Zarek's speech in defense of the tribunal was necessary -- to show how compelling the other side of the argument can seem to be. But I still believe the writers came down on one side of the argument, quite deliberately.

That said, in general, I would agree with you that "Battlestar Galactica" brilliantly explores moral ambiguities without picking a side or becoming didactic.

Posted by: CSOlsen at October 29, 2006 08:21 AM

To me Mr. Tennet is Doctor Who now... He rivals if not surpasses the great Tom Baker as the greatest Doctor in my book. And having seen the whole season... with the exception of one episode it just keeps getting better and better. Mr. David is right its a hell of a roller coaster.

Does anyone know if Sci-Fi will be showing Torchwood at some point?

And BSG is also excellent.

Posted by: Rich Lane at October 29, 2006 08:54 AM

Does anyone know if Sci-Fi will be showing Torchwood at some point?

Having just seen the first two episodes of Torchwood, I'd have to say it would need heavy editing to be on American TV (especially the second episode) so I would lay odds against it.

Posted by: Thomas E. Reed at October 29, 2006 08:58 AM

Darren J. Hudak, I like your idea!

A name can do a mean a lot, I maintan that if Firefly was called Star Trek:Firefly it would probably still be on the air.

In fact, I'd suggest Mr. David write it. It meshes perfectly with the "Excalibur" series. That's basically about Calhoun bending and breaking Starfleet regulations to accomplish positive ends. It is a critique of the concept of Starfleet.

Well, "Star Trek: Firefly" (with the specific Whedon references, names, et cetera filed off, of course) would do the same to the Federation. While all those selfless Starfleet people would have nothing but contempt for privateers, these people would reap respectable (but not big-score) profits by doing good as well.

In fact, it reminds me of just about the last thing I ever saw on "Deep Space 9" before I got alienated from the whole show; Armin Shimmerman as Quark, giving Cisco a serious Ferengi critique of what is wrong with the "profitless" attitude of the Federation.

Posted by: Micha at October 29, 2006 09:06 AM

"In fact, I'd suggest Mr. David write it. It meshes perfectly with the "Excalibur" series. That's basically about Calhoun bending and breaking Starfleet regulations to accomplish positive ends. It is a critique of the concept of Starfleet.

Well, "Star Trek: Firefly" (with the specific Whedon references, names, et cetera filed off, of course) would do the same to the Federation. While all those selfless Starfleet people would have nothing but contempt for privateers, these people would reap respectable (but not big-score) profits by doing good as well.

In fact, it reminds me of just about the last thing I ever saw on "Deep Space 9" before I got alienated from the whole show; Armin Shimmerman as Quark, giving Cisco a serious Ferengi critique of what is wrong with the "profitless" attitude of the Federation."

Yes. I had a similar idea once. The next evolution of Star Trek should explore more the civililan aspects of the federation, and present a more critical view of the utopian, clean cut face of Star Fleet.

Posted by: Allyn at October 29, 2006 10:03 AM
What would happen to the Doctor's head if he had to live a plain and simple life for awhile? No alien invasions, no murderous cyborgs, just a day job and a girl. What if he actually had to face his fear of watching the people around him grow old and die? Even if we didn't actually see the life he led during that time, I think the effect on him would be fascinating.
There's a story arc in the eighth Doctor novels that deals with this scenario. Justin Richard's The Burning kicks off the story arc, and it takes the Doctor, stranded on Earth, from the 1880s through to 2001 in Colin Brake's Escape Velocity. The highlights of the arc are Paul Leonard's The Turing Test (the Doctor meets Alan Turing, Graham Greene, and Joseph Heller during World War II) and Lance Parkin's Father Time (the Doctor is a 1980s industrialist who puts everything on the line for his daughter). A few years later Jac Rayner wrote Wolfsbane which fits into the arc--the eighth Doctor meets Harry Sullivan in the 1930s and they fight werewolves, while the fourth Doctor and Sarah try to discover what happened to Harry.
Posted by: Rich Lane at October 29, 2006 10:06 AM

There's a story arc in the eighth Doctor novels that deals with this scenario. Justin Richard's The Burning kicks off the story arc, and it takes the Doctor, stranded on Earth, from the 1880s through to 2001 in Colin Brake's Escape Velocity. The highlights of the arc are Paul Leonard's The Turing Test (the Doctor meets Alan Turing, Graham Greene, and Joseph Heller during World War II) and Lance Parkin's Father Time (the Doctor is a 1980s industrialist who puts everything on the line for his daughter). A few years later Jac Rayner wrote Wolfsbane which fits into the arc--the eighth Doctor meets Harry Sullivan in the 1930s and they fight werewolves, while the fourth Doctor and Sarah try to discover what happened to Harry.

While I read some of the novelizations of TV episodes, I've never read any of the non-adaptation, original stories. These sound intriguing, and I'm going to have to seek them out. Thanks!

Posted by: Jerry C at October 29, 2006 10:13 AM

"Meanwhile in Doctor Who, since no one else has commented upon the fact before now, am I the only one who is seeing parallels between John Lumic and the origin (revival) of the new Cybermen versus Davros and the creation of the Daleks?"

Nope. The first thing that popped into my head as well, Lee.


Rich Lane,

We may get lucky when it comes to Torchwood. BBC America has started showing the new Who as well. I it scores well for them, we may get Torchwood without as much hacking and cutting.

Uhmmm. I haven't seen it. The cutting is air time or content? Is there a non spoiler way you can say why it would have to be cut so much for Sci-Fi channel?

Posted by: Rich Lane at October 29, 2006 10:29 AM

Uhmmm. I haven't seen it. The cutting is air time or content? Is there a non spoiler way you can say why it would have to be cut so much for Sci-Fi channel?

It shows on BBC 3, which I assume allows for more mature content than American TV (British posters and those more familiar can correct me if I'm wrong there). The first episode would probably only need to be cut for language, as there were a few F-bombs dropped here and there. The second episode had a sex scene in a public restroom that lasted a couple of minutes. No nudity, but pretty graphic in detail and volume.

Posted by: Allyn at October 29, 2006 11:28 AM

As much as I want to see Torchwood, the show I really want to see is The Sarah Jane Adventures. I still heart Sarah Jane. :)

Posted by: Hooper at October 29, 2006 01:23 PM

PLEASE tell me The Doctor and Lumic have at least ONE scene together in the second part!

Posted by: Rob Hansen at October 29, 2006 01:24 PM

The first episode of Torchwood would only need a few minor cuts for language, but the second would be much more of a problem for mainstream US TV since it features sexual activity. It could be cut for content, but you might have difficulty following it if this was done too crudely.

As for BBC 3, it's no more adult-oriented than any other BBC channel. The Torchwood episodes were repeated on mainstream channel BBC 2 later in the week with no cuts whatever. Explicit language and sexual content are not a problem here if the show airs after 9pm.

Only 3 1/2 hours 'til episode 3 airs....

Posted by: Rich Drees at October 29, 2006 01:24 PM

It shows on BBC 3, which I assume allows for more mature content than American TV (British posters and those more familiar can correct me if I'm wrong there). The first episode would probably only need to be cut for language, as there were a few F-bombs dropped here and there. The second episode had a sex scene in a public restroom that lasted a couple of minutes. No nudity, but pretty graphic in detail and volume.

I didn't think there was anything more graphic than what has been seen on other basic cable network shows run in the 10 o'clock hour.

Posted by: Rich Lane at October 29, 2006 01:57 PM

I didn't think there was anything more graphic than what has been seen on other basic cable network shows run in the 10 o'clock hour.

To be sure, but would SciFi show it?

Posted by: Rich Lane at October 29, 2006 01:59 PM

As for BBC 3, it's no more adult-oriented than any other BBC channel. The Torchwood episodes were repeated on mainstream channel BBC 2 later in the week with no cuts whatever. Explicit language and sexual content are not a problem here if the show airs after 9pm.

Thanks. I wasn't sure.

Posted by: Craig J. Ries at October 29, 2006 07:21 PM

To be sure, but would SciFi show it?

They've shown movies like Species, although I don't know what kind of edits they made to those movies.

Posted by: Rich Lane at October 29, 2006 07:25 PM

They've shown movies like Species, although I don't know what kind of edits they made to those movies.

They chopped them up pretty good, IIRC.

Posted by: CSOlsen at October 29, 2006 07:53 PM

Well there's been some "graphic" sex scenes between Baltar and 6 on Sci-Fi... Is it any worse than those? I've seen far far worse on regular network TV than those. But then this is the age of censorship here in the US.

Posted by: Rich Lane at October 29, 2006 08:38 PM

I'd forgotten about some of the Baltar/Six scenes. I think this scene was a tad more intense, but considering the precedent maybe it would pass muster after all.

Posted by: gene hall at October 29, 2006 09:50 PM

I had a blast today watching the Halloween HEX marathon on BBC America. What a terrific show!
It's fairly explicit, too. Has anyone else this great series?

BBC America would be the place for Torchwood, if SciFi balks.They'll be showing Doctor Who starting Nov. 21. I just love the promo they've been running with Christopher Eccleston.

Posted by: Michael D. at October 29, 2006 09:59 PM

"PLEASE tell me The Doctor and Lumic have at least ONE scene together in the second part!"

If not , you can always rent "Goblet of Fire". :)

Posted by: Craig J. Ries at October 30, 2006 12:27 AM

If not , you can always rent "Goblet of Fire". :)

Wow. I never made that connection.

But then, all the Harry Potter movies have had such impressive casts that it's easy to forget who played some of the smaller roles (such as Barty Crouch).

Although it was fun watching Casanova on PBS just a couple of weeks ago - not only because the show itself was excellent, but Russell Davies has reused several of the actors for guest spots on Who in these first two seasons. :)

Posted by: Frank Furter at October 30, 2006 02:23 AM

Anyone else agree that Gaeta should have died in last week's BSG? I think it would have been a much more powerful ending if this extrajudicial Circle had executed him, only to discover that he was the hero responsible for their rescue. THAT would have been an ending that stayed with you!

Posted by: Jonathan (the other one) at October 30, 2006 03:20 AM

But now all the Circle jerks have to see Gaeta every day, and remember whenever they see him that because of their little kangaroo court, they almost killed one of the greatest heroes of the Resistance.

And maybe wonder if one or two of the other victims of their little foray into vigilantism might have been a secret hero, too...

Posted by: Sasha at October 30, 2006 08:57 AM

The update of the Cybermen's look is impressive, they remind me quite a bit of Marvel's Ultron in their current incarnation.

I believe that's because their new design was created by fan-favorite Bryan Hitch.

Posted by: Scott Bierworth at October 30, 2006 09:04 AM

[B]I can't disagree with you on anything about Battlestar Galactica. My only request is they get Apollo out of the fat suit as quick as possible because he looks like, well, an athletic guy wearing a fat suit.[/B]

I saw an interview where he said it wasn't a fat suit. He really did gain the weight (and then lose it again) for the show. I also found out he's has a strong English accent when not using his "American" accent.

Posted by: Rich Lane at October 30, 2006 09:50 AM

I saw an interview where he said it wasn't a fat suit. He really did gain the weight (and then lose it again) for the show. I also found out he's has a strong English accent when not using his "American" accent.

Yikes. I always have thought endangering your health for your art is perhaps taking it too far. At least he didn't go as far as Christian Bale did for The Machinist.

Posted by: Craig J. Ries at October 30, 2006 10:56 AM

I believe that's because their new design was created by fan-favorite Bryan Hitch.

I've seen it mentioned that Hitch's new Cybermen have more in common with Iron Man than Ultron; I think Hitch also worked on Iron Man in the last couple of years.

There was a photoshop floating around of the Cyberman pic the BBC released, but painted in Iron Man's red & yellow. It looked great. :)

Posted by: John at October 30, 2006 11:01 AM

I gather Sci-Fi cut the scene where the homeless guys are converted to Cybermen.

I have often suspected I that scenes were being abbreviated between commercial breaks. Are the dvd episodes uncut? I've pre-ordered the single disc version that contains my favorite season 1 episodes ("The Empty Child" and "The Doctor Dances") and I so hate having even the tiniest bit cut from something. (I'm sure I'll collect the rest of the series this way, the boxed set is a bit much for me to part with at once, but seeing restored cut scened would be a good motivator for me to keep collecting.)

Posted by: Steve H. at October 30, 2006 12:35 PM

I agree that names mean a lot. I could not watch BG until recently as I remembered Battlestar Galaxative all too well.

"Firefly" was a bad name, but nowhere as bad as "Serenity," which sounded like a lame John Cusack movie.

I almost decided to give up on BG as I was starting to not like anyone!

Posted by: Sasha at October 30, 2006 12:53 PM

Incidentally, I gather Sci-Fi cut the scene where the homeless guys are converted to Cybermen.

Watched the link. Shame they cut the scene out of the broadcast. It's rather creepy.

Posted by: ScotiaNova at October 30, 2006 01:14 PM

The update of the Cybermen's look is impressive, they remind me quite a bit of Marvel's Ultron in their current incarnation.

I believe that's because their new design was created by fan-favorite Bryan Hitch.

Sorry, but Bryan didn't do any concept/design work after the initial launch of the show.

Posted by: Rob Hansen at October 30, 2006 02:54 PM

>>I gather Sci-Fi cut the scene where the >>homeless guys are converted to Cybermen.

>I have often suspected I that scenes were being >abbreviated between commercial breaks. Are the >dvd episodes uncut?

Dunno. I copied the shows for re-viewing directly to DVD off air here in the UK where they aired without ad breaks and, obviously, uncut. I've never viewed the commercial DVDs.

In re the Cybermen, I see that a fully functioning Cyber-conversion unit turns up in the fourth ep of Torchwood. Knew this was coming from the previews, but it looks good and will presumably tie-in to stuff in Dr Who.

Posted by: Grant at October 30, 2006 03:36 PM

((What would happen to the Doctor's head if he had to live a plain and simple life for awhile? No alien invasions, no murderous cyborgs, just a day job and a girl. What if he actually had to face his fear of watching the people around him grow old and die?))

We'd get Giacomo Casanova!

Posted by: Jerry C at October 30, 2006 04:24 PM

"I saw an interview where he said it wasn't a fat suit. He really did gain the weight (and then lose it again) for the show. I also found out he's has a strong English accent when not using his "American" accent."

"Yikes. I always have thought endangering your health for your art is perhaps taking it too far. At least he didn't go as far as Christian Bale did for The Machinist."


I think yopu may have misunderstood something he said. He did a TV Guide interview where he stated that the extra weight was a fat suit and there was a vid clip on Sci-Fi's website showing him getting put in the suit and make up before shooting. Plus, if you pay close attention, the only two or three times they show him without a shirt on they framed the shot from the neck down.

The misunderstanding may be from what got me the first time I saw him talk about it. He keeps saying that he doesn't stay fat this season as they let him "Jenny-Grieg" his way back down to fighting shape. It wasn't until the third interview I saw him in where he actually said that that meant ditching the fat suit and how glad he was to be out of the thing.

Posted by: Jerry C at October 30, 2006 04:33 PM

Here's another link with him talking about it.

www.visimag.com/tvzone/t205_feat01.htm

Posted by: Jeff Kapalka at October 31, 2006 12:16 AM

I sympathize with PAD, as I've seen all of the second season of the new Doctor Who, and can't wait for "The Runaway Bride." You guys watching the Sci-Fi run ain't seen nothing yet! (Might want to stock up on Kleenex for the season ender.)

Torchwood is starting to grow on me. Most of the Doctor Who references are oblique, at best, so you can jump right in without knowing anything of the original series. (Of course, if you're in the know about the Doctor, there are a few nods and winks.)

Except: Rose's resurrection of Captain Jack in the first season ender had more repercussions than one might have thought, and they do actually use the "c" word: Cyberman. (What else did you think I meant?) Matter of fact, the working title for episode four is "Cyberwoman."

Can't wait!

Posted by: Joe Sargent at October 31, 2006 07:13 AM

Mr. David,

We already have a well written good science fiction show, It's called Star Trek. Too bad you turned your back on it for trash like this.

Posted by: Sasha at October 31, 2006 09:40 AM

My one complaint about the new Cybermen? They don't talk in the creepy sing-song voice anymore.

Shame really.

Posted by: Captain Naraht at October 31, 2006 10:21 AM

To Joe Sargent:

YIKES! Are you in for a rebuttal!

To Everyone Else:

Anyone now wanna make the argument that Baltar is at least in some way is a Cylon. (I mean now that he's questioning himself in the previews to the 11/3 episode.) I don't think he's a top-of-the-line model mind you. But isn't it reasonable that he might be a "custom" make used exclusively to trick Caprica into giving up its computer codes?

--Captain Naraht

Posted by: Rex Hondo at November 1, 2006 02:25 AM

Whew, finally got to watch them both. (God bless DVR) I think I'm just going to have to stop watching BSG before going to bed.

One of the things that's been rattling around in my head since the previous season of Dr. Who that was finally driven home for me this episode (Note, I hadn't seen a lick of Who before the Eccleston season) is how much it impresses me that they can take things that, in any other context, would just look goofy (Daleks and Cybermen) and make us actually buy them as menacing. I think it has a lot to do with the acting. The characters actually look genuinely concerned.

Or maybe the secret is just picking a single word and repeating it over and over in a mechanical voice. "Exterminate! Exterminate!" "Delete! Delete!"

-Rex Hondo-

Posted by: KIP LEWIS at November 1, 2006 08:41 AM

1I just had a thought. We have been assuming since the first episode that the Cheerleader's dad and his team are the bad guys. We have been lead to believe that they killed Mustafa (sp wrong)'s father. But that's not yet been proven, yet has it? He just showed up searching his house.

Yes, he kidnapped the cop, but he put him back, no worse for wear, when he was done. And we don't know what would have happened with the senator-canadate. All they've been shown to be doing is researching.

And then there is that little point that he didn't kill his daughter's would be rapist.

Suppose that he and his team are actually the good guys, or perhaps the gov't investigating these new beings or an para-gov't group like the Watchers on Buffy or Highlander.

Posted by: John at November 4, 2006 12:40 AM

We already have a well written good science fiction show, It's called Star Trek. Too bad you turned your back on it for trash like this.

Yeah, we should only have one well written sci-fi show ever. All you other sci-fi writers just stop trying.

Posted by: Sean Scullion at November 16, 2006 08:54 PM

"As a final side note, I've read that the actors playing the Doctor and Madame are romantically involved in real life."

He's hooking up with a puppet? And people think I'm weird!

Joe, Joe, Joe....reactions like that, as large a Trek geek as I am(wait, you guys didn't know I'm the biggest one in Pennsylvania?) they just reinforce the stereotypes some people have. There is a whole world of entertainment outside Trek. Although, with my schedule I don't get to see ANY of it! (First one to mention either DVR or VCRs get whipped with a wet tribble.)

Rex, sorry, Secretary Hondo, if you think repeating stuff doesn't work, next time you're in McDonald's, just keep repeating "Big MAC big MAC big MAC big MAC SHAKE SHAKE SHAKE Big MAC big MAC" and see if the people don't move away from you. Far away.

Posted by: Rex Hondo at November 23, 2006 03:53 AM

Sean, it certainly bears some consideration, especially when nursing is really being a pain at work. I may have to go back to a classic, though. I've always been fond of NOMAD's "Sterilize," and it fits well in a healthcare setting.

Of course, it only becomes menacing instead of annoying in the long term if people learn fairly quickly that every five or six robotic shouts of "Sterilize!" are punctuated by somebody getting a cattle prod enema.

-Rex Hondo-

Posted by: Ian at November 24, 2006 06:50 AM

Having the series close with the two iconic foes fighting was spoilt due to so much air time given to the soppy love story finale. The fight scenec was given a petty few minutes and the ending which was overly drawn out and quite embarrassing to watch was over ten minutes.
Looking forward to the return of the Rani next year though.
Torchwood, if you expect Doctor Who then don't watch it. It is not spectacular. If you was a new Sci-Fi conspiricy show then this one is for you.