I'm doing these two together because I find some of the thematic resemblances interesting. Spoilers below:
LOST: The season opener starts cleverly enough, confounding our preconceptions of "The Others" by showing a rural setting of backyards and book clubs before the crash of the jetliner that brought our heroes to the island. Unfortunately, the season opener never quite again reaches that level of "didn't see that coming." Jack, Kate and Sawyer are split up and engaged in varying degrees of a mental chess match with the Others as their captors try to break their spirit and their will through various means.
Although the episode is engaging enough, and there were a few surprising moments (the flood door, for instance) ultimately it almost had a by-the-numbers feel to it. For that matter, "Lost's" signature--the flashbacks--are starting to wear thin. What can serve as brilliantly character revelatory when done right (the Hurley flashbacks, for instance, or Jin and Sun) can also come across as needless padding, and this seemed like one of those instances...as if the producers don't trust the mainline plot to be interesting. That's why "Lost" reminds me of a driver with his foot on the gas and the gearshift in neutral. I feel as if we've had two seasons of set up, and the season opener is...more set up. I'm sticking along for the ride, but...sheesh.
BSG: This, on the other hand, is how it's done. One hour of "Lost" that seemed to move slowly versus two hours that blasted past. Again we've got heroes under siege in an isolated environment, except their oppressors make the Others look like the Campfire girls. Even more: Every single character is trapped in some way, shape or form. The humans residing on New Caprica bristle under the yoke of Cylon oppression, with suicide bombers treated as heroes and necessary in a war of resistance...something that takes all our attitudes about the world around us and stands them on their ear, as the best SF does. The Cylons, meantime, are prisoners of their "good intentions," embarking on a faith-motivated endeavor to spread the word of their one, true God. In real world terms: Cylons, the enemies, are basically human beings, while the human beings--the good guys--are what we would consider the enemy. Adama is a prisoner of his loyalties to the people of New Caprica who he's left behind: Unable to continue the quest, but concerned that if he goes back, the resulting battle could be the end of humanity altogether. Starbuck is a prisoner of a would-be lover, Tigh is a prisoner of his rage, his wife is a prisoner of her secrets, and Lee Adama is a prisoner of frustration. All of this comes together in the jaw-dropping last two minutes in which a truly horrific trap is sprung that, I suspect, not everyone is getting out of in one piece.
Let me be blunt: Anyone who is allowing the title of this series to prevent them from watching it is, quite simply, nuts.
PAD
Posted by Peter David at October 10, 2006 03:22 PM | TrackBack | Other blogs commentingI actually find Kate, Jack, and (to a lesser extent) Sawyer the least interesting characters in the show, so I was disappointed that they were the focus of the premiere.
But, y'know in the LOST premiere, when Ben/Henry Gale tells Kate "The next two weeks are going to be unpleasant"? I get the feeling that he was talking to us in the audience. So maybe by episode 4 things will start resolving. Or at least get less excruciating... ;-)
I enjoyed Lost while I watched it, but when I had time to think I realized how little it made sense.
Jack knows that the Others know who he is. There was Ethan and Henry and Michael telling them about him. Then there's the fact that the Others wanted to capture him specifically. So he's in the room and they ask him questions about what he does. He should know they already know a lot about him.
We also have this sudden obsession with his ex-wife..."Is she happy?..boo hoo." It works in the context of the flashbacks, but that was a while ago and he has shown no sign of these feelings since he was on the island.
So he knows they are trying to break him and refuses all their overtures. But...sob...they tell him his ex is happy and they have him right where they want.
Jack is stronger than this. It is uncharacteristic and pathetic for him to act this way. I just found the whole thing unbelievable.
I don't watch "Lost." I hear it's a phenomenal show, but I only have so much time for T.V. and no room to add new shows to my viewing regime right now.
About the premiere of "Battlestar Galactica," though. It. Absolutely. Rocked.
For one thing, the pacing was perfect. By starting "in media res," there was implicit tension created from the very get-go. I was on the edge of my seat wondering what happened to each of the characters, and thus even the expository sequences were riveting. There were enough "quieter moments" to balance the action sequences, but those "quieter moments" were loaded with key bits of information and beautiful characterization. It was like being on a train that builds up speed subtly, and before you know it is careening dangerously out of control.
Every character, no matter how minor, was given some spark of pathos. And it was never cliched or overplayed. Battlestar Galactica is the gold standard for subtlety on television.
Damn. Damn. Damn. I canNOT wait until this week's episode!
I started on J.J. Ahram shows with "Alias," and I think he has riveting series ideas, but I eventually grew disenchanted. His shows really only play off of one main, and somewhat limiting, premise, which he and his writers are forced to drag out over how long the series lasts, as opposed to how long is actually warrented.
Watching Lost or Alias unfold is like playing a game of Jenga - you only have so many blocks, and you have to keep pulling from the bottom to provide the illusion that you're adding something to the top, with no true additions, and absolutely no planning from one block to the next.
And, like Jenga, even before the story tower eventually falls apart, the lumbering wreck is such an ugly mess that you aren't sorry or surprised when it finally collapses.
Stephen King was exactly right when he reviewed Lost for Entertainment Weekly -- he's enjoying the show, but part of good writing is knowing when to type "The End," and he's not sure that ABC or the producers will let that happen.
In fact, seeing a TV show as primarily a story instead of a franchise is something that network TV can't figure out at all, unlike HBO, FX or the BBC.
And we complain about decompression in COMICS?
I don't get the Sci-Fi Channel, so I've never seen Battlestar Galactica. But I got into Lost through my roommate's DVDs, and I was able to catch up in time for the season premiere. And, well, I pretty much agree with all the comments above. Those three ARE the least interesting characters on the show (and as Sawyer grows more likeable, Jack grows less likeable, so that now they've almost switched places in my estimation since the beginning of the series). On the other hand, the episode did an excellent job of making me hate the Others, especially Juliette, or whatever her name is. God, I hate her!
What bugged me most about the episode was the discovery of just how many commercials there are (although I wasn't entirely unprepared for that, since the episodes on DVD are only about 40 minutes long). How do you stand it?
I also agree about the flashbacks. Most of the time they seem like filler that has been added because the writers know they have to stretch the main plot for five years or so (which is also why they had to get rid of Walt). The formula is starting to wear thin. I'd rather they reserve the flasbacks for the really important stuff, instead of the "oh, time for a flashback... what character should it be this episode?" method they've got going.
Lost's Season 2 Finale was so rad, that I think the Season 3 opener get's a bit of a free pass. Plus, with all these new characters, we'll probably have more flashbacks to play with instead of the extra padding we got with Jack.
Battlestar was simply phenomenal. I'd like to say I'm surprised at this, but I'm not... there were right-wingers in one of the talk forums complaining that they're not going to watch Battlestar anymore because evil liberal Hollywood is sympathizing with the Palestinians and Al Qaeda because the humans were being applauded for being suicide bombers. I and others tried to point out that there are characters that firmly disagree with the notion of suicide bombers, but we just couldn't get through.
This year's TV, as usual, leaves me with LOTS of varied emotions-- with the main feeling best described as "BLAH". Please note the following opinions offered completely SPOILER FREE.
I'm barely hanging in on LOST-- as I totally agree with Peter that the flashbacks are just wearing thin. I couldn't believe that "Hercules" at "Ain't It Cool" listed what characters would receive flashbacks in the first four episodes. What a way to keep falling back on the same old stuff, guys! What would be really interesting? A LOST episode with ZERO flashbacks.
I watched SMITH, loved it, recorded the next two and then discovered it had been pulled. I watched SHARK, hated it, had people tell me it's gotten better-- still can't watch it. Watched UGLY BETTY, really sort of liked it-- then decided halfway through the 2nd ep that I was a goner. (Primarily because of Vanessa Williams hammy "comic booky" Bullwinkle's Natasha-type performance.) Recorded KIDNAPPED, never saw it-- now it's pulled.
Been feeling iffy on STUDIO 60-- but I really like Matthew Perry's work on the show... liked last night's episode the best so far-- so I'm feeling a little better now (really wanted this show to be good). Started watching FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS and couldn't get past the first 10 minutes. Thought I should go back and watch it again after Peter's review-- then decided I would rather read a Peter David comic book instead. HEROES is cool (at times) but a lot of the acting is horrific and I sincerely hope they don't take an entire year to develop their "slow as LOST" major plot. Last's night episode-- written by Jeph Loeb was very, very good... But I can see the crazy, twist episode endings (that NBC is now actively promoting) becoming very gimmicky after awhile.
My "jury" is still out on NINE. Said I liked it, now I don't know why. SIX DEGREES makes me feel exactly the same way: I want to like it, say I do but can't really say why. Both, I fear will be gone soon from my viewscreen-- either by my hand or by the piss poor decision making process of the network exec's itchy trigger fingers.
The only shows I really enjoy watching immediately are VERONICA MARS, DR. WHO (last season it was one of my LEAST favorite shows) and BATTLESTAR GALACTICA. (I often record a whole season of a show and then watch them all in a weekend marathon during the summer. Actually makes AMAZING RACE really fun to watch.)
'Nuff said. Like many out there, I just thank god for Ronald Moore.
Jesters Tear: I think the problem a lot of people have is that they have to demonize The Other in order to allow inhumane actions to be perpetrated with approval. The minute you start to humanize those you have Othered, you have to start questioning treatment, and how you want to be treated.
BSG does an excellent job at forcing you to step outside your preconceived notions of right/wrong, me/other, and makes you see things like torture and suicide bombings for what they are: acts of extreme violence and terror. It removes The Other from the situation (and sometimes makes it clear that The Other is genuinely human), and forces us to look at the issue in question from a human point of view. It's often a re-examining of a view we thought we understood, forced into a new perspective - and if we rethink it in relation to the show, there is a good chance we will at least relook at our beliefs "in real life", too.
PAD, you nailed it right on the head. I loved the first 5 minutes of Lost, but felt the rest really lacked. What I really wanted to see in Lost are answers to what happened to the people left behind, especially Locke, Eko, Charlie, and Desmond.
As for BSG, it was great. This is the firs season that I'm watching first run episodes after watching Seasons 1 & 2. What I loved about the last 5 minutes is that it reminded me of the scene in The Great Escape after Richard Attenborough and some of the others are captured by the SS. They're loaded onto a truck and the truck stops along the way. Attenborough and his men get out of the truck and they're standing there talking when the SS takes out a machine gun and kills them all. It's such a great movie (no pun intended.)
I enjoyed the Lost premere well enough - the beginning was a total blown-away moment, good chuckles with "The bears got it in two hours" and good comeback from Sawyer.
As to the flashbacks - yeah, they do need to add more meat the the backstory - especially the charecvters i give a good darn about - all of wich is to say I wish jack had drowned 'cause I'm just tired of his over-testosterone gotta be in charge ass.
Lost is fast becoming what killed Alias, all promises no payoff.
Battlestar Galactica was just simply awesome.
"Been feeling iffy on STUDIO 60-- but I really like Matthew Perry's work on the show... liked last night's episode the best so far"
Really? I thought it was the weakest episode thus far. In fact, I seem to like the show less and less each week. All it does is make me miss Sports Night, because it's so similar in a lot of ways, yet so different, and not nearly as compelling. And so far Matthew Perry's character has no personality, other than "the guy who's in love with a Christian but makes fun of Christians," which is getting old.
"My "jury" is still out on NINE. Said I liked it, now I don't know why. SIX DEGREES makes me feel exactly the same way: I want to like it, say I do but can't really say why."
I thought The Nine was really pretty dumb, with the flimsiest of premises (they're going to spend the whole season gradually revealing what happened in the bank? Who the hell cares?), but I agree with you on Six Degrees... I like it, I'm not sure why, but the last episode was boring, so if it doesn't improve this week I'm gone.
Like everyone else here, I loved BSG. There was one particular thing I really liked, it made me pity Tigh's wife. She's always had faults that made me not like her, but now I feel like I understand that character better. She's always used sex to get what she wanted, but before it always seemed completely self motivated. In the season opener we saw that when she wants to save the man she loves, she uses sex, too. It's not that she's selfish to the point of infidelity, she's just a person who only knows one trick. So I can't dislike her any more, I can only pity her.
Peter, I couldn't agree more. I really enjoyed Lost's opening teaser, but it really slowed down after that. I'm starting to think the only way to watch the series is on DVD where watching the episodes back to back without commercials makes one feel a bit more than something is happening. As for the flashbacks, I get the fact that the writers are trying to channel Watchmen, but if these flashbacks actually serve a purpose in terms of filling in the story, I can't see it at the moment.
On the other hand, the first two hours of BSG this season really showed how to structure a fine piece of drama. Not to mention the best political commentary since The West Wing in its heyday. I've actually seen the first five episodes which Sci Fi was good enough to send out as part of its press kit, and I can safely say that each one of them is equally as exciting.
"Stephen King was exactly right when he reviewed Lost for Entertainment Weekly -- he's enjoying the show, but part of good writing is knowing when to type "The End," and he's not sure that ABC or the producers will let that happen."
This is realy funny to me, since even the people I know who are HUGE Stephan King fans admit that his books fall apart in the last quarter and his endings are weak.
My girlfriend actually left the room after watching 30 minutes of the Lost season premiere. She was so frustrated and bored she couldn't stand to watch a second more. I'm almost there with her. I thought the new ep was downright bad. Lost just makes me feel like I'm wasting my time. Nothing ever seems to happen. It's perpetual padding without reason or reward. The Others.. jesus, they are so ridiculously cryptic they make me laugh.
Battlestar is absolutely brilliant.
BSG- This show is just incredible! Easily the most relevant, best written science fiction show
in the last 10 years ( since B5)
JERICHO- Anybody watching this one? It's unfolding very slowly. I'm looking forward to seeing where they go with this.
SMALLVILLE- The Green Arrow! Just why is Lois so freaked out by things falling from the sky in Smallville? Should'nt they all be used to that by now? That Lex sure does get tied up a lot...
Gene:
I am watching JERICHO (thanks for reminding me of that) and I love it.
I like the "small town reacting to nuclear bombs" premise. This is the one show that I think really deserves to take its time. After all, the end result of the premise should be nuclear winter and the death of everyone... Although I wonder if real bombs even fell.
Could this all be a BIG (see LOST) SET-UP for something else?
Robert:
Maybe I just approached the last ep of STUDIO 60 from a different perspective than you. I still stand by my Matthew Perry commentary. I really like seeing comedic actors breaking through in more dramatic roles. I don't hear or see Chandler Bing when I watch STUDIO 60... which is an astounding thing... since I saw Chandler in every MOVIE Matthew Perry has been in.
I believe the reason I feel flummoxed by the NINE... is the same reason you think the premise is flimsy. What in the HELL happened in that bank for about a day and a half that could possibly constitute 22 hours-- let alone the basis of FIVE to SEVEN seasons-- of televised entertainment?
My guess is something really funky happened (it does look, act and smell like one of this season's LOST clones) and I further assume that the creators blew it by not showing more in the first episode. They better ratchet up the funky fairly quick or the American public will make some ABC exec's cancellation call extremely easy.
That why I love Battlestar: Complicated adult entertainment showcasing both the best and the worst of humanity with beautiful women and a high dose of kick ass action. Gee, I guess I'm just a simple minded, easy to please guy after all.
Long live the just announced remake of THE BIONIC WOMAN! :-)
I saw season 1 of BSG and will pick up seasons 2 and 2.5 on DVD soon. Having seen enough spoilers through the trailers on the SciFi Channel, I've tried to avoid reading any here. SOrry if I repeat LOST comments made elsewhere.
I was underwhelmed with the LOST premiere. I really wanted to know if Locke survived; Scott Kurts (of PVP) wanted to learn more about the mysterious giant statue with four toes. Instead, all we learn is that Jack, Kate, and Sawyer are caught and subject to some type of tests -- which we knew the Others did last season. I'm looking forward more to this week's episode than the season opener.
As for the flashbacks, they work(ed?) best when they either revealed some interesting bit of the character's history (Locke's paralysis, Hurley's lottery winnings, Kate's crime) or directly applied to the current situation (Hurley's fear of responsibility, Charlie's inability to straighten out). As the show goes on, those become less relevant. And for fnord's sake, we don't need any more flashbacks showing how Jack was messed up by his father!
Quick! Go to Yahoo.com and look at the story about toasters that put pictures on bread.
I wonder who made that one with those initials? Nuff said!
"I believe the reason I feel flummoxed by the NINE... is the same reason you think the premise is flimsy. What in the HELL happened in that bank for about a day and a half that could possibly constitute 22 hours-- let alone the basis of FIVE to SEVEN seasons-- of televised entertainment?"
Actually, I think it was more than two days that they were in there, but still, you're absolutely right. How is this going to be a series? The Lost flashbacks work (to an extent) because they reveal secrets and information about the individual characters, stuff that is generally not known by the other characters. But the flashbacks in The Nine will just be revealing stuff to us that the characters already know, so it's a really, really odd format for a series, and, unless they have some really big surprises and twists in store for us, ultimately pointless. I mean, we know the cop acted heroically, and we know the doctor did something that wasn't so heroic (though not so bad that he doesn't get invited to hang out with the others), and that the bank teller gets shot and eventually dies, etc.... so, what exactly do we need to know that warrants this format? Sadly, I won't be sticking around to find out, as I couldn't care less, and the show wasn't even particularly well written.
But I'm with you on Jericho. Good show, potentially great show, because it has so many possibilities. This is the kind of show that could go on for a long time and never run out of good material.
Okay, first of all, Cowboy Pete won't have the chance to review "Heroes." It won't be on the air long enough. The plot is creeping by at a turgid pace, none of the characters except the time-warping Japanese guy have any appealing characteristics, and the promised "encroaching evil" is more like a "lounging in my chair and I'll do something after I finish this beer evil."
As for "Lost"...At the discovery of the Hanta Foundation stuff, someone considered this show to be a revival of "The Prisoner." But Number Six was about twenty times smarter, impassioned and determined than these idiots. If the island were really The Village, the way it's run in this show, he'd have escaped in the third episode.
I literally stood in the control room and screamed at the monitor when I saw this Jack character letting the blonde skank bring him food. (The TV station where I work runs the show.) I might have said this earlier, but I would have KO'ed her and broken her jaw. KO her to allow me to escape, break her jaw to punish her for being the she-wolf of the SS.
And if I HAD opened up a hatch and let the ocean in, I would try to swim out. I wouldn't care if Dr. Mengele and Ilsa the She-Wolf drowned, and if I died in the attempt, I would have at least died a free man.
If Heroes has one archnemesis it's the lack of pre season publicity. "My Name is Earl" had more last season and I was well prepared to record it. Heroes has picked up two new viewers this week - my wife and I - thanks to the replay on SciFi. So, I think it would be fun to see some Cowboy Pete round up of Heroes.
Also where's the Doctor Who round up?
For further background on the first suicide bomber on BSG, you might want to check out the Webisodes at scfi.com/pulse. There are ten of them, three minutes each, that lay out some of what happened in the four months between the arrival of the Cylons and the beginning of this season. (Duck joined the NCP, for instance, after his wife was killed during a Cylon raid on their makeshift temple. The Cylons found out the Resistance was hiding weapons in the temple. Duck was hoping that by signing up with the quislings, he could find the lousy bastard who ratted them out.)
There's a lot of good stuff in there, and a lot of Michael Hogan (Col. Tigh) showing what an incredible actor he can be when they let him...
I think it was radical for the writers of LOST to put the surprise at the begining of the show. I have to admit that I never saw the Others living in the subburbs coming. I want to know more about Ben, it always seems when he's walking around, he's listening to someone else we can't see.
BSG was very good. I'm glad Sharron is out of the brig and helping Adama. She is my favorite character. Lee is still too whinny, but getting better.
Jon-
I do a Dr. Who once a week on my blog but I think Peter is gonna talk about it after this weeks episode.. This was our favorite this year.
Thomas E. Reed- Okay, first of all, Cowboy Pete won't have the chance to review "Heroes." It won't be on the air long enough.
Umm, you do realize it was one of the first shows picked up for a full season, don't you?
I totally agree with you on Lost. It does seem like its spinning its wheels and I'm getting increasingly frustrated with it. And that's why I'll continue to watch it--out of frustration with it in hopes that they finally figure out a different beat to tune it too. And is it me or does Lindelof and Abrams seem like two little kids in a candy store with the Kate shower scenes. I mean, not that I mind but they're getting a little ridiculous with it.
Galactica, however, you're totally right--it's how it's done. It's definitely the superior show to Lost there is so much going on there and there's no mystery involved in trying to keep you interested by making you think about the issues that we face today. It's really extraordinary.
SPOILER ALERT!
I just commented on Lost on a another site this morning. Last night I watched the pilot again and I was stricken by how far afield the series has gone from its original dramatic thrust.
Originally it seemed the series was about the fight for survival for the marooned survivors of a plane crash stranded on a island of mystery - now the series seems to be more about the struggle between the crash survivors and the "others."
I don't like the series any less but, it is very different from what it set out as.
Watching the pilot was intriguing if only because I had the knowledge of the direction each characters' path would take. It also made it apparent how some characters who were the focus early on had taken more of a back seat in recent episodes.
Charlie and Sayid were a big part of the pilot but both characters have faded into the background. I understand they'll be more for Sayid this season but the difference is startling.
Last year I thought at first the series had jumped the shark but, they managed to finish strongly - I’m willing to give the writers some rope. Whether they hang themselves or not remains to be seen. I did re-watch the opening sequence of the village and the plane in the sky because I wanted to see it again and it was the high point of the show.
Wonder if the older woman who was in Juliet’s book-club (Juliet supposedly being a major player in the coming season) will be a regular as well.
As far as BSG goes...
There is just so much to say. I've seen that episode three times now. SciFi runs repeats on Monday late and then again on Tuesday in the late afternoon so, I’ve caught bits of it again.
Most of the things I saw I liked. Tigh’s character was greatly improved. He has become a much stronger character. His speech to Roslyn was spot on.
I know the closing scene alluded to a real life World War 2 event with the Nazis shooting prisoners at the end of the war so, it was an interesting way to close. Dean Stockwell has certainly proved to be a great addition to the cast.
What I am a bit confounded by is if there are so many Humanoid models in evidence running the show on new Caprica why is it there is only one "Leo" model and the model is focused entirely on Starbuck? Also, there seemed to be only one of the Doctor as well?
The allegory of the suicide bombers was a bit ham-handed for me but, I have to admit to liking the fact that neither side was portrayed in totally black and white terms.
My biggest question after watching the episode was this - Is there a main Cyclon? A head or de facto leader of their society? This still hasn’t been made clear. There are still a bunch of Humanoid models we haven’t seen and they gave a hint that Baltar might in fact be a Cylon but I think that was more of a Red Herring than anything else.
So far, there are three kinds of Cyclons - the "tin cans," the Humanoids and finally the attack fighters (akin to animals). I’m curious whether or not we will get a clear understanding of how the war between the two actually started, where it started. The tin cans predate the humanoid models but, it is referenced in the episode the tin cans are preprogrammed with a blindness when it comes to differentiating the humanoid models from each other? It speaks to a superiority on the part of the humanoid models but they are predated by the tin cans. Doesn’t quite make sense.
As far as the Starbuck thing - even after four months of struggle I can't buy into the whole overwhelming emotion for the child bit. It seemed a bit too contrived for me - she is married to the other guy still. Didn't the kid seem a little too aware of the interplay between Leo and Starbuck at the end of the episode?
Heroes, BSG, and Dr Who! Favorite shows thus far. (I'm still watching Lost, but after the premier I'm watching it with a wary eye. I'm still on the fence about Studio 60.)
(A UK friend said that the season 2 ending of Dr Who will make you crap. your. pants. - It's that good! I can't wait- in the meantime she's posting me from across the pond a Dr Who Doll complete with sonic screw driver! I adore being a geek girl.)
Jesters tear: Re; Suicide Bombing.
I have always seen this show as representative of Israels(the Wests) struggle with Muslim fanatics and thugs.
Interesting POV switch.
Rich Drees...NBC may have gone with a full season committment, but that doesn't mean they'll actually air all those episode if "Heroes" tanks. A bunch of "unseen episodes" on the throwaway DVD they'll eventually make will help it sell a little better. See Faux's treatment of "Serenity" and a ton of their other shows.
I'm being bitter and betrayed here - the only proper mood for a TV viewer and a Democrat to have - but I would really like "Heroes" to succeed. It won't happen, though, since so few of the characters are likeable. The show has established a grim mood for no other reason than to BE grim. It's like that heroin-shooting artist guy has psychically transferred his despair to the rest of the characters. And like the new guy, the psychic patrolman, even the rare good deeds never go unpunished. Who the hell would want to be a part of this universe, besides those suicidal Anne Rice goth kids?
As for "Lost," it looks like this week's episode will establish that the Hanta Virus Foundation, or whatever it's called, apparently has a Village-like ability to control everything, including the supposed rescuers of the captives. Not like the captives want to be rescued, of course, or figure out any escape plan that works, like running away from their captors in a straight line. This is the sad state to which our adventure and fantasy TV shows have descended
Whoops! Did I say "Serenity?" I meant "Firefly."
I give you this, though: the surprise ending of "Heroes" was pretty good. You do realize this was the first "topless" scene since Janet Jackson's incident. A REALLY topless scene. I think they shouldn't have cut off her complete statement, though. I'm sure she was saying "Holy S***...I'm getting FAT!"
LOST lost me. I'm tired of being strung along, season after season, being assured that there's a point to all this and it will, somehow, eventually tie togther. Been there. Done that. It was called THE X-FILES. I watched every episode until the last season and I still couldn't explain that show's underlying mythology.
BATTLESTAR GALLACTICA, on the other hand, I've just discovered. I watched the recap show on Sci-Fi and I force-fed myself the season 2 marathon they just ran. I also watch the 10-part webisode on Sci-Fi.com. I'll admit I was put off by the title. It would be like hearing they're doing a remake of AUTOMAN or MANIMAL or LAND OF THE GIANTS. I've seen the light! This is the best work I've seen since BABYLON 5.
"I give you this, though: the surprise ending of 'Heroes' was pretty good. You do realize this was the first "topless" scene since Janet Jackson's incident. A REALLY topless scene. I think they shouldn't have cut off her complete statement, though. I'm sure she was saying 'Holy S***...I'm getting FAT!'"
I remember that scene. I'm going by memory here as I didn't keep a recording. I was initially so facinated by the gore of her chest being open that it only later occurred to me that we saw her on the "autopsy table" with her chest cut open but STILL IN HER CHEERLEADING UNIFORM! I am left with the option of believing one of two things...
I had originally thought that she was waking up in the morgue and that her chest was open because someone was doing an autopsy on her. I was so distracted by that gory open chest,I didn't really look at her surroundings. I got the impression of a morgue autopsy table. However, the problem with that assumption is that whoever did the autopsy didn't cut away her clothes. This would normally be rediculous, but see my comments about that uniform after option B.
Option B is that she has woken up inside the lab of some evil mastermind and the gaping open chest is a result of some diabolic experimentation. This is the what I've got to go with. It fits with the facts and it doesn't screw up her secret identity by making her publicly "dead."
Finally, what is it with that cheerleader uniform? She's always in it. Is it the source of her super-power or something? Does she just because she's got a zillion of them to compensate for her destroying about one every episode? Also, that girl has to have the worst luck for fatal accidents that I've ever seen. In addition to her quasi-suicidal stunts, I've seen her suffer through two real accidents that would have been fatal to a normal person in just two weeks. She had her neck broken by a clumsy football player last week and this week she was thrown onto whatever-that-thing-was by the quarterback. Neither of these incidents was seems to be the result of anything more than her being in the wrong place at the same time. Good thing she's nigh invulnerable, isn't it?
David Hunt said:
In addition to her quasi-suicidal stunts, I've seen her suffer through two real accidents that would have been fatal to a normal person in just two weeks. She had her neck broken by a clumsy football player last week and this week she was thrown onto whatever-that-thing-was by the quarterback. Neither of these incidents was seems to be the result of anything more than her being in the wrong place at the same time. Good thing she's nigh invulnerable, isn't it?
Nah, this happens to cheerleaders all the time. Ever wonder why they always look so fresh, energetic and young? When they get a bit of age on them they get assaulted and killed, either through clumsiness or through lust-crazed football players.
The knowledge that this was the inevitable end of most cheerleaders was the one thing that cheered me up in high school.
I suspect that it was an autopsy, by the way, although a kind of sloppy one. What did Dr. Quincy do? Instead of the standard T-cut, where you cut across the sternum and down to expose the organs, he pretty much stripped off her entire upper torso. Then, he and his assistants must have had Taco Bell for lunch, because they all ran to the john, leaving the body open and exposed. I thought they only did autopsies that sloppy here in Orange County.
Here's my theory on the cheerleader autopsy. I don't think it's autopsy so much as an exploration to see how much she can regenerate. It's like that issue of Preacher years ago where they keep blowing Cassidy the vampire into pieces just to see how much punishment his body can take and still regenerate.
BSG has fast gone from being a show that I had no time for to a show that I rank in my top 5. Lost was, to me, the best thing on TV in its fisrt season but it is fast slipping into my bottom 5. If they don't break free from "set up" mode soon and get on with it... It was nice while it lasted.
Hero's and the autopsy. I don't know but if I woke up in that kind of shape, I'd go insane!
Besides that, I'm betting that the person performing the autopsy on her was her adoptive father. That didn't look like a morgue but a basement and from what has been pointed out it was a sloppy state of things.
The two Japs are hillarious.
I'm getting a little tired of the stripper's mystery power, tell us already.
Brian
The show has established a grim mood for no other reason than to BE grim. It's like that heroin-shooting artist guy has psychically transferred his despair to the rest of the characters. And like the new guy, the psychic patrolman, even the rare good deeds never go unpunished. Who the hell would want to be a part of this universe, besides those suicidal Anne Rice goth kids?
I suspect that part of the point. Traditionally, superhero fiction is in no small part about the shining example of the heroes chasing away the gloom that threatens to engulf the world. You can’t have that bright moment unless you have the grimness first and I believe that as the series progresses, one of the themes will be how the world becomes less grim as the heroes do their thing.
I agree Sasha, just because you're granted amazing powers doesn't mean that you're going to be happy about it. What fun is being a psychic cop if the FBI thinks you're one of the crooks? Who wants to see the future if it's all death and destruction? That's why the Hiro character is such a wonderful counterpoint, because he actually thinks like a comic book superhero with all the innocence that entails.
Okay, maybe I'm the only one, but after last week's slow burn then tonight's episode, I'm completely hooked on LOST again. The mystery took an interesting turn with the ending of tonight's episode (and Sawyer breaking that guys face was pretty freakin' cool). Jack's reaction to the baseball bit was priceless--both his initial reaction and his learning the truth. That sequence alone shot down somewhere near 57,361 theories floating around out there. I was a bit reminded of "The Matrix Reloaded" (which is never a good thing) by Benry's viewing room where he was spying on Sawyer. I've read next week's episode focuses on what happened after the hatch exploded and focuses on Locke and Ecko. I still like the flashbacks, but they do seem to have much less of a point than they did in the first season.
Heroes is cool, and I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next. I'm not as much a product of the "MTv show-me-now-or-I'm-changing-it" generation so I can handle drawn-out, well developed stories. I read somewhere that the younger brother's power is like Rogues, which explains why he can only fly around his brother (and the drawing he did--they showed it real quick--of him and his brother in the future flying right after he touched the artist). It's a snails pace for sure, but it allows for lots of detail and development. I think the neighbor is a plant, and the blonde's ex-husband is Sylar and can walk through walls (a la Kitty Pryde) and "phase" objects through people.
"Studio 60" is good so far. I like seeing Matthew Perry in something other than "Chandler marries a Mexican" type roles. Sorkin really needs to let someone else write the sketches though..man are they bad.
One thing I don't understand is all the people saying such and such show moves to slow, and then prasing "Jericho". It's pretty good so far, but man is it sloooow to answer anything. And how in the hell does Skeet Ulrich know how to do everything? I was in the Army and they didn't teach me how to do an emergency traich. Not that I'd want to know or anything.
Whoever made that comment about Stephen King's endings is dead-on. I love the man's work, but his endings quite often are the worst parts of his books. It's funny how you get yourself used to it then are sometimes pleasantly surprised when the ending is actually good.
Wow, guess I had a lot to say about all that :)
"Sorkin really needs to let someone else write the sketches though..man are they bad."
I think I read somewhere that Mark McKinney writes them, or at least in part. But yeah, that was one of my problems with the last episode: the joke that was supposedly plagiarized had no comedic value at all, so I didn't get why everyone was so gaga over it. I liked the musical number in the first episode, though, although it could have been better (like, if it didn't repeat the same lines twenty times).
"And how in the hell does Skeet Ulrich know how to do everything? I was in the Army and they didn't teach me how to do an emergency traich."
I don't think he was in the Army. Remember in the first episode, he gave a different story to each person who asked where he'd been for the last five years? "The Army" was most likely just another lie.
But I agree that the slow pace is starting to be a problem. Watching tonight's episode, I was actually bored for the first time. I'm not sure if I'm going to keep watching.
Lost was good, I guess, except I REALLY hate the Others, and I'm impatient for their asses to get handed to them. Sayid acting like an idiot and putting Sun on the boat alone didn't help. And I have to say I'm getting pretty sick of Sun and Jin (sounds like a Sheryl Crow song).
Heroes is cool, and I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next. I'm not as much a product of the "MTv show-me-now-or-I'm-changing-it" generation so I can handle drawn-out, well developed stories. I read somewhere that the younger brother's power is like Rogues, which explains why he can only fly around his brother (and the drawing he did--they showed it real quick--of him and his brother in the future flying right after he touched the artist). It's a snails pace for sure, but it allows for lots of detail and development. I think the neighbor is a plant, and the blonde's ex-husband is Sylar and can walk through walls (a la Kitty Pryde) and "phase" objects through people.
I'm thinking Sylar's more the Rogue-type...absorbing the powers of those he kills. Not sure what to make of Pete & Nathan. (BTW...didn't get a good look at it, but did their mother's necklace have the same symbol that's popping up everywhere in the show?)
I've considered the idea that Sylar is Niki's ex...or that the "blank" guy in the bar is (and may or may not also be Sylar). Not sure if I'm convinced or not, though.
My wife & I are really digging this show.
On the BSG front, my only complaint is that, being as I'll be out of town for a wedding Friday night, I won't get to see this week's until I get back.
Oh, and as for Stephen King, I never really had a problem with his endings, aside from his insistence on making every victory a Pyrrhic one. And, come to think of it, I wasn't crazy about the ending of The Stand, although I liked it more when I watched the mini-series.
Just a tip if you're ever taken prisoner, DON'T get out of the truck to stretch your legs!
Okay, maybe I'm the only one, but after last week's slow burn then tonight's episode, I'm completely hooked on LOST again. The mystery took an interesting turn with the ending of tonight's episode (and Sawyer breaking that guys face was pretty freakin' cool). Jack's reaction to the baseball bit was priceless--both his initial reaction and his learning the truth. That sequence alone shot down somewhere near 57,361 theories floating around out there. I was a bit reminded of "The Matrix Reloaded" (which is never a good thing) by Benry's viewing room where he was spying on Sawyer. I've read next week's episode focuses on what happened after the hatch exploded and focuses on Locke and Ecko. I still like the flashbacks, but they do seem to have much less of a point than they did in the first season.
Nah, you're not the only one. As I said earlier in this thread, I find Jack one of the least interesting characters, so I was glad when this episode shifted the focus to Sayid (everyone needs some Sayid) and Sun and Jin. The latest flashback felt a little less like padding than Jack's last week, but that may just be because I find Sun and Jin more interesting. Certainly, in terms of plot, the only main thing this flashback contributed is to basically confirm that Jae and Sun had slept together, keeping alive the possibility that the baby Sun is carrying is not Jin's. And in the non-flashback point, we have Sun shooting the Other, becoming another of the castaways who has killed someone...
Among all the mysteries in the show, some of the ones I really want to know about seem like minor characterization bits (but who knows how the creators will spin them out) but which I really, really want to know. Chief among which is how Locke was paralyzed way back when...
And come to think of it, did they ever tell us the deal behind Hugo's nickname "Hurley"?
I have read that the producers will explain how Locke was paralyzed pretty early into this season.
I tried BSG. I saw the pilot and the first episode on the urging of several friends. I hate it, and I feel SOOO alone in the SF/genre community now. I like good SF, I like intelligent stories and cool concepts. But...
I didn't just dislike BSG, and I didn't dislike parts of it - I simply hated it from top to bottom. I found the main visual hook (the shaky camera) took me totally out of the drama because it was so phony. I didn't like any of the acting, which is probably the fault of the director because the actors are generally folks I like. I hated the dialog, which I found trite and obvious (even when it was supposed to be oblique). And the whole world they set up simply failed to grab me, and frankly didn't make any sense.
Why do people like this? What am I missing that EVERYONE is seeing? What's wrong with me?? :)
PS - I don't watch LOST either, because I missed the first few episodes and just didn't feel like jumping in late. Sounds like I'm not missing much there, thank goodness. :)
"Why do people like this? What am I missing that EVERYONE is seeing? What's wrong with me?? :)"
It's really not an easy question to answer. I agree on the shaky cam to a large extent, there's no reason for the camera to wobble when the scene is just two people sitting and talking. I don't find the dialog trite, and I can't see why you would. I think someone who doesn't know you isn't going to be able to say why you don't like it, simply because they don't know what you think of as trite or what you've been exposed to.
Not everyone likes everything, sometimes it's as simple as that. People act like a hit show is a universal phenomenon, but the truth is that most really big hit shows only get 10% or less of America watching them. So if you don't like even the most popular show on TV, at least 90% of America agrees with you.
You're right Jason - it was a rhetorical question, I guess... And not a very useful one. But I really am frustrated by my inability to get on board this thing, since I have so many friends who love it. Of course, I took a good ten years to warm up to the X-Files, so who knows!
Robert - "And how in the hell does Skeet Ulrich know how to do everything? I was in the Army and they didn't teach me how to do an emergency traich."
Heck, I learned how to do an emergency traech with a ballpoint pen from an old episode of M*A*S*H! ;)
I didn't just dislike BSG, and I didn't dislike parts of it - I simply hated it from top to bottom. I found the main visual hook (the shaky camera) took me totally out of the drama because it was so phony. I didn't like any of the acting, which is probably the fault of the director because the actors are generally folks I like. I hated the dialog, which I found trite and obvious (even when it was supposed to be oblique). And the whole world they set up simply failed to grab me, and frankly didn't make any sense.
Why do people like this? What am I missing that EVERYONE is seeing? What's wrong with me?? :)
Patrick - if it helps, I didn't like it at firrst, either. Dad tried to get me to watch the miniseries and I blew him off. Then he tried to get me to watch Season One, and I blew him off. I tried, mind you - sat down for an hour of the miniseries then wandered off, board. The camera angles bugged me, and I found absolutely none of the characters compelling. The S1 episode I watched was the... third, I think, where Apollo goes up against Apollo (well, Richard Hatch, anyhow), and it was a bad episode to watch from the standpoint of it being very focused on a single character.
The only reason I gave the show another chance is that my coworker, who I shared an office with, had the miniseries with him, and we'd finished watching all our CSI episodes and needed something to kill 4 hours with (we had a very tedious job that involved staring at progress bars move across computer screens). So he put it in,... and when it was over, I went up to Best Buy to get the S1 DVDs, and we ran thru them before S2 started up.
What was missing in the show, for me, the first time was some hook, any hook, something to catch my attention. And I wish I could tell you precisely what changed my mind, but I honestly don't know. Maybe it was my mood, maybe it was boredom, but there it was. And amusingly, when I rewatched the S1 third episode, I found myself thinking it was some of the best drama I'd seen on TV in a long time - now that I had a handle on the characters and storyline.
I think, in part, it has to do with the Galactica crew really not being immediately likeable. We're accustomed to television shows (and I speak broadly here) having positive, happy, charming main characters. The Galactica people? Not so much shiny happy. They're flawed, sometimes fatally. They're broken, shellshocked, suffering PTSD and who knows what else, and it shows in their interactions. No one really becomes likeable until you start learning their narrative, their past and dreams and who they were before the horror of genocide.
This slow growth, combined with powerful statements about politics and the world, is what finally completely suckered me into the show. Which is rather amusing, since it's probably the thing that turned me off to it in the first place.
Of course, I didn't start watching Buffy til it was cancelled, Firefly several years after Dad tried to get me to watch it,.. same for Stargate (and I've gone on to teach classes built around Stargate), and just about anything else that I've ended up really loving. I'm kind of stubborn that way... ;)
Anyhow, now'd be a good time to give the show another shot - Moore's said they specifically tried to set up S3 to be something new viewers could jump into and appreciate, without feeling like they have to catch up on S1 and 2 first.
And oh, mister_pj? I'm glad I'm not the only one who types Cyclons and then has to correct herself,... ;)
I hate to admit this, but I haven't seen Lost or Galactica since their first seasons. In fact, the only shows I DO regularly see are Ghost Hunters, Danny Phantom and Martin Mystery. The last two are really just for my son. Really. They are. Wanna buy some beach front property in Wyoming? Knew you would.
Saw the first Heroes, kinda liked the tone, but I just didn't have the time to see the second. Darn busy schedule. Although I do usually have time to watch Reba on some station with my wife. And I know, I know, I could tape all these things, but then there's remembering to DO that, then finding time to watch them, and I just can't HANDLE that kind of stress, man! Anyways, back to Heroes. Yeah, it's got a grim tone, at least the first one did, but show me any hero, no pun intended, worth their salt that DOESN'T face grimness at least at some point. Show me one that doesn't and you'll be showing the Superfriends, and it'll be the ones with Wonder Marvin and his dog, not the Wonder Twins. Heck, even Spider-Man and his amazing friends had some grimness. Remember the one where Aunt May was in a coma beacuse she got hit by a falling piece of building? Pretty grim stuff there, even though it was just a way to tell the origin story in a new way.
Stacie's right. My head IS full of an inordinate amount of odd stuff.
Thomas E. Reed wrote:
> Okay, first of all, Cowboy Pete won't have the
> chance to review Heroes. It won't be on
> the air long enough.
Yes, it will. The SciFi Wire page of the SciFi Channel website (owned by NBC/Universal) has reported that Heroes is tied for first place in the ratings for the 18-49 age group nationwide, and NBC has given the order for a full season of episodes.
Of course, "a full season" doesn't mean what it used to mean, and is now only 22 episodes for a network series, but that will take the program through the May sweeps.
Makes me wonder what Ron Moore was doing during the last few seasons of TREK he was involved with. BSG is showing he has grown considerably as a writer. Of course, during NExt Gen , he was in a Clinton-World... NO war, economic prosperity and no pscho killing little Amish girls.
We live in an edgier world, where people's suffering is pawned off as "reality" entertainment, and we have a moron for a President trying to get us in another Korean War.
Just watched the new episode. Really powerful, but the part I loved is that in the middle of such a huge crisis, Tigh has he presence of mind to focus the Chief by saying that wonderful line, "the last thing your kid wants is Ellen and me for parents."
There's so much unsaid but still conveyed by that line and I was laughing for almost a full minute because it was so true. Tigh both reassuring Galan that they'd raise his son himself if something bad happened even though he thought they'd make terrible parents. It was perfect.
I was thinking that Sylar is either The Missing Professor(faked his death, I'm fairly sure of that even if he's not evil), The Ex-Husband(who is also probably the blank guy from the bar), Evil Step-Dad, or Nathan(It's basically a comic book, and all comic book politician's have to be evil, right?). The only thing with Nathan is that I'm not sure how he would get all the way to LA and back.
Interesting theory about Peter's power, it certainly makes sense, although most likely he is just a flier and it's tied to self confidence.
HEROES: Okay, I was totally off-base about that cheerleader outfit. What's-her-name is not wearing it when she wakes up on the table. Her lower body is covered in some kind of red blanket and her torso is opened up. I was just so busy looking at the the opened up chest before that my mind just filled in the red below that huge gore-fest as the skirt of her outfit. I'm still going with the theory that The Evil Mastermind(TM) has captured her and is performing experiments on her, though.
I am enjoying Heroes. I like the "grim" bit, and I think the characters are likeable enough (then again, I tend to like flawed, persecuted, troubled characters). I dig the "real world aesthetics" they seem to be going for, as opposed to Hollywood aesthetics.
But I can see why someone would think it too dark and pessimistic. There is something about stories with people gifted with superpowers: they still aren't fully accepted by the general public. If you want the average guy to take your story seriously, and make it sure and obvious it isn't for children and it isn't for laughs, one safe way to make sure is making it GRIM, GRIM, GRIM.
Are they overdoing it? Perhaps. Not a trouble for me, because I like grim.
\\ The two Japs are hillarious. \\
See, I find them to be the most annoying part of the show.
// I'm getting a little tired of the stripper's mystery power, tell us already. //
She has an evil side who comes out an takes over when she's in trouble. Like Two Face or the Hulk only with sex appeal.
Patrick McEvoy
"I tried BSG.
...
Why do people like this? What am I missing that EVERYONE is seeing? What's wrong with me?? :) "
If it makes you feel any better, I don't care for it either. Watched the mini and the entire first season and just never felt the need to keep going.
Ah well....
I'm glad to hear about the full-season committment. But just like the Democratic Party, I don't think "Heroes" will go the distance. It's amazing that the non-geek audience has gone so far with the snail-like character development. But something has to happen to make the characters take genuine heroic stands.
As was remarked on the new "Danny Phantom" episode last weekend (yes, I love the show too), by Peter David, and by most comic book writers when asked "What makes a hero?", a real hero is not someone who winds up in danger; it's someone who chooses to go into danger to help someone else. And that danger has to entail real risk for the would-be hero; the most risky character on "Heroes" might just be the artist whose powers require him to stay on heroin for them to work.
Peter are you going to put up a topic on the death of the Bill of Rights? I figure its something you must have been following.
"And that danger has to entail real risk for the would-be hero; the most risky character on "Heroes" might just be the artist whose powers require him to stay on heroin for them to work."
Cheerverine desperately wants a normal life. Instead she used her powers to kill a serial rapist. Usually I wouldn't think that killing the bad guy was heroic, but since she's one of the girls he tried to rape, I give her a pass.
Hiro almost got blown up in a nuclear explosion, and his reaction was to toss away everything in his regular life and run to New York as fast as possible.
Plus a cop doing what cops do and several characters who are going through personal stuff but don't even know about the real danger yet.
That's actually a fair bit of progress for so few episodes, considering how many characters are being juggled.
While I see where you're coming from Thomas, I have the opposite reaction. What I like the most about "Heroes" is that no one in the show is a "conventional" hero, just out to do good deeds. You see, THAT would have killed it for me, because it's been done to death. And I suspect it would have killed it for the average viewer who is distrustful of superheroes too, because you already get superpowers in the show, you give them obviously "heroic" personalities and many people would still think it's for children or something.
Still, there were many examples of characters risking themselves to help people out, like Jason said, and many in very archetypical "heroic" situations. Claire running into that wreck to save that fireman, Matt helping that little girl twice, Hiro and Isaac both out to stop that atomic explosion, Peter quitting his job because he wants to do something "greater"...