PeterDavid.net

Thanks Peter. It's rare someone tries to inform people online about a movie while staying spoiler free.

There's been a lot of negativity about this movie (AICN, big surprise) but I still have a giddy feeling when I see the X3 trailers. I do think my inner fanboy is going to have some memorable moments here.

Funny thing is, with X3 my worries lie with some of the details. The dialogue, the handling of some characters... The big stuff seems okay. Epic standoff, great casting overall... With the Superman trailer I think the details are ok, but the big ideas worry me. The urchin, nothing but Supes-vs-nature and Supes-vs-guy-with-gadget, the casting of Routh and Bosworth, stuff like that.

It will be interesting to see which I like best, and which most of the audience will like best.

Funny thing is, with X3 my worries lie with some of the details.

This is where I have my worries as well.

As much as I enjoyed the first two X-Men films (and I did very much enjoy them), I am one of those who notices the little things. And while it doesn't completely detract from my enjoyment of the films, it does make me a sigh a bit.

Like, how hard is it for Hallie Berry to at least try and keep up the accent the character had in the first film? Would it have been a pain in the ass to do something to indicate that Wolverine & Sabretooth knew each other?

All those little things that would make the films even better than they were. :)

That said, I still have severe reservations about X-Men 3, even though I'm thinking I'll enjoy this one too. Those reservations are probably greater just on the things I've heard might happen in this film.

Critical response has been, as far as I've seen, highly mixed. This is a GOOD thing, especially for a "genre" movie. It means the movie is good enough that some critics overcome their kneejerk "genre movies are crap" reflexes, but it hasn't lost touch with its genre nature (i.e. if all the critics love it, it's probably turned into a totally different kind of movie, and fans won't like it).

I'm a bit divided on whether or not I want to see this one. I tend to plan out my movie-watching a lot further in advance than I used to, due to Japanese theater ticket prices.

So, the question I'm asking is...is this movie worth me shelling out about $16-$18 American to go see?

For what it's worth, I enjoyed the first Rush Hour movie...and I greatly enjoyed the first two X-men films.

Craig, in the first X-Men movie, Sabretooth took Wolverine's dog tag. I took that as a hint that there might have been a pre-existing relationship between the two characters.

I'm one of those weirdos who doesn't care if the movies stay faithful to the details of the comics, as long as they stay faithful to the spirit of the comics and the fundamental things that make the characters who they are. I think X-Men and X-2 accomplished that.

I've seen the trailer for X3 and it looks absolutely friggin' way-cool. I can't wait to see it.

I also saw the Superman trailers. I think Routh looks great as Supes and Kevin Spacey may in fact play a better Luthor than Hackman did. If Routh has the acting chops to pull off the character as well as Christopher Reeve did, I think Superman Returns may be another winner as well.

Kevin Spacey as Luthor. I just don't know. That's mostly just because I can't stand Kevin Spacey. But then, I wasn't all that crazy about Hackman as Luthor either.

Stacie's still making fun of me for the first X movie. "Bunch of grown men in a movie theater CLAPPING for a MOVIE." Like to see HER after seeing a movie she waited twenty years for and see HER reaction. Still gonna drag her along, though. She's going to owe me forever for A Thousand Acres.

I just hope Cyclops has some more to do in this one. As much as I like Wolvie, Cyclops needs more screen time.

Thank you so much for reassuring me. Now I can walk into the theater tomorrow well assured that X3 or The Last Stand or whatever will not be crap.

I'm hoping to see X3 by the first of the month at the latest. My only concern is that this is allegedly the LAST movie!
Wolverine is supposed to be getting a solo outing next, hopefully with Hugh Jackman in the role.
But can't they take and still do X-Men movies without the huge casts? I'd still go if it was just one or three heroes against a villian provided the movie was as good quality wise as previous installments.

I just came from watching it and i absolutly loved it. It seems that i like Brett's vision on the X-men more the Bryan's.
It could have been a little longer.
And i'm not a big fan of all those other comic-book characters so i'm glad that they had small parts.
I'm a huge Wolverine fan and liked how different the movies are from the comics.
Euhh, to the Cyclops fan, i hate to brake it to you but he has very little screen time.

Lee-
This is the last movie that the current cast signed for when they first signed for the original film. Now they would have to offer them a new contract for the roles for any additional films which is why many film series are in threes by the way. the kids in Harry Potter were only signed for the first 3 as were the principle teachers. Hugh Jackman has gone on record that he KNOWS what made him the man he is today and it is the role of Wolverine which has made more possible in his life than he could imagine so he is sooo there for a Wolverine film. After the film is been out for a bit I will give you my reasoning as to why this is not the last we will see of the X-Men.

Well, I'll be seeing it tomorrow, and I'm looking forward to it now more than ever! In general, the rank-and-file film critics are always a mixed bag -- especially for non-comics savvy critics reviewing comic book-related films -- so while they give me a ballpark reference point, I usually have my mind made up to see a film long before the reviews hit the streets.

It had some great set-pieces, and I agree about the casting, but on the whole I was dissapointed. I think they tried to cram too many sub-plots into the movie without any thematic throughline - a loose jumble of concepts which are never properly fleshed out.

**SPOILERS FOLLOW**

(No, they don't. I'm sorry, David, but this isn't your call to make; it's mine. I want this discussion to remain spoiler free. I want people to have just as much opportunity to get pole-axed by various events as I was. So I've deleted your spoilers, and I'm going to ask everyone else to respect my wishes on this matter. There are PLENTY of places around the net to discuss specifics with all the spoilers you want, but I want this arena to remain a haven for people to form opinions of the film and whether they should see it, or have their anticipation stoked, without having the story blown for them. As far as I'm concerned, any major storypoint that takes place more than ten, fifteen minutes into the film, I don't want to see discussed in detail here. --PAD)

I'm hoping to see the movie tomorrow, before I start work. Fnord, I love matinees!

I can appreciate Halle Berry being upset with the limited dialogue she was given in the first film. After seeing that one, I imagined this conversation happening:

FAN 1: So, how was Storm?
FAN 2: Awesome! Halle Berry looked great in leather -- and they did her weather control really well!
FAN 1: Did she have her thieving abilities?
FAN 2: Um, no, it didn't come up -- but she did great weather control.
FAN 1: Had she been worshipped as a god in Africa?
FAN 2: Er, did I mention the weather control?
FAN 1: Claustrophobia?
FAN 2: LEATHER! WEATHER CONTROL! AND ONE REALLY AWFUL LINE! THAT'S IT!!!

Fortunately, Halle Berry saw the error of her ways and went on to the richer, more emotionally fulfilling role of Catwoman. Hey, wait a minute...

Problem with having too much backstory on Ororo(or anyone else in this series for that matter) is that it would take away from the current storyline. If you did the flashback to her background right, the way it was done in the books, it would take at LEAST thirty minutes. The writers have enough to put in with the current story without emphasizing too much of one character. Well, except Logan, but people are screaming for backstory on him anyway. That's what really worked in the first movie. Except for Rogue and Magneto, the movie DIDN'T explain much of where they came from. Just jumped right into the story. Now, a solo vehicle like Batman Begins or Daredevil CAN go more into the backstory, since the movie only has the one hero to deal with. Eventually have to see both of those, actually. X-Men and Fantastic Four, even, have to deal more with the interactions between the characters and the way they deal with each other. (Anybody who didn't like FF, well, I'm sorry, I thought it was dead-on right) A lot of people go into a comic movie expecting it to be just like the book. Two different media, so there's gonna be differences. That last is in deference to a few people I know who have hated every hero movie since Superman II because, (Paraphasing here) they want "to see the drawn page that I've imagined up on the screen."

And not too much Cyke, huh? Ain't gonna stop me from seeing it tomorrow. Like I said, there are more characters to watch.

Rat, you're right that they couldn't work every detail of Storm's backstory into the movie. So, how 'bout ANY details? At the end of the movie, all we knew about her character was that she felt bad when the senator liquified. And she knew what happens when a toad gets hit by lightning. That isn't exactly a well-developed character.

saw it, enjoyed it ,nuff said !
hows that for spoiler free?

Actually, X2 was the last film that Jackman, Berry, McKellen, Stewart, et al were contractually signed for. They needed to sign new contracts to make X3. This is how Berry was able to lobby for more to do and to fly, etc etc, and Jackman was able to have a say in the picking of the (eventual) director.

IMO, X3 was good but not great (certainly not as great as X2). Could have done with an extra 20 mins to allow the characters and themes to breathe. And the way they treat Cyclops (especially considering that the film involves Pheonix) was a disgrace, but then I guess it was inevitable seeing as how he's been completely pussified in the film series so far.

absolutely superb, it was a faithful sequel with real gravitas. There were scenes ( don't worry no spoilers here ) towards the end that really tied the trilogy up. one moment in particular which was a real echo to the early Professor X and Magneto scenes, was brilliant.

In fact I actually preferred this in many ways to X2, it was taught, action packed and their was real character development despite what some critics have said.

The beast was exellent, loved him, perfect. Vinnie Jones as the Jugs was poor, he had the weakest lines by far.

I agree with the comments about length, another 30mins would have been fine, but then is that a negative? A good film always leaves you wanting more...

As for the characters who die I was genuinely shocked....brilliant.

Funny you should say that Jones had the weakest lines, as I thought he had the best line in the whole film. Of course, it was one that refers to a popular online viral video, so if you haven't seen it, YMMV.

Loved the movie more than I expected to. Ratner hit it out of the park. Less cerebral than the first two (though it still has a cerebral side), packed with a lot of great action and absolutely stays true to the spirit of the characters without being afraid to take them in wildly surprising directions. I definitely plan to see it again before the weekend is out.

Peter,

I thought the acting and direction was good, but the rest of the movie was a trainwreck.

Donnell

I saw a midnight showing of it and had a great time! About 20-30 people showed up dressed up as X-Men (comic book style at that!), some dressed awesomely (Gambit, Psylocke, Colossus) and some hilariously bad (Juggernaut had a box helmet).

Now, as far the actual movie goes, I enjoyed it. I felt X2 was tighter with less to do, but this one had some solid action and was possibly more fun. I really enjoyed Beast, Shadowcat, and Juggernaut and wish that Angel had been used more. I have to give Brett Ratner a lot of credit for getting this movie together with the short amount of time that he had.

Saw the film this afternoon and wasn't overwhelmed. I'd like to think I can divorce myself from being a die-hard comic book geek and enjoy a film for what it is, but there was some real sloppiness in terms of editing, stunt work (mainly the wire work, which looks like, well, wire work) and some huge lapses in continuity. One of the major set pieces involving a bridge seemingly takes place around sunset, and yet it leads directly into another sequence that takes place at night although in actual screen time, only a few seconds appear to have passed. Perhaps there was originally a transitional scene that split those sequences that would have indicated the passing of time, but if that bit was ultimately edited out, the two sequences don't cut together the right way. And without giving anything away, one character gives orders to keep anyone from entering a particular location, but in he next big action sequence, one of his cronies does exactly the opposite.

One of my biggest regrets is that with four decades worth of supporting characters on tap, the production chose to ignore most of them in favor of creating lots of not very exciting background mutants, most of whom had nebulous powers, or powers that were a specific story point (such as two particular sequences involving Wolverine, one of which you've probably seen a clip of on any talk show appearance that Jackman made this week). having recently interviewed a number of behind the scenes people from the film, I realize this is because of the difference in opinion between the director, studio execs and Marvel execs, with Ratner winning the majority of those battles, but what is the purpose of having access to thousands of cool-looking characters if you're just going to make 90% of them look human, with the exception of a few tribal tattoos?

And that brings me to a subject that will no doubt brand me a mega-geek, but it involves the film's very premise, which is to provide mutants with a 'cure,' obviously taken from Joss Whedon's current X-Men run. But my problem is the same as it was with Marvel's recent Decimation storyline, where most of the Marvel mutants have been de-powered: if you lose your mutant abilities, does it also retroactively change your appearance as well? Okay, maybe if you were Angel, you'd lose your ability to fly, making your wings a pair of useless appendages. Or maybe the wings would eventually wither and fall off, but at least Angel looks human to begin with. But if Beast was 'cured,' would he simply lose his athletic and gymnastic abilities and still look fuzzy? What about Nightcrawler, who was born looking the way he is? My point with the comic book storyline as well as the film, is there doesn't seem to be an internal logic behind the thinking. Characters change or don't change because of some arbitrary thinking rather than thinking through the implications of what you're trying to do. As I say, I'm probably thinking too much about these things, but that's just the way my brain works, or doesn't work, I guess.

Having said all that, the movie isn't all bad. The first 15 minutes or so, including the first major sequence with the team in action are very well done. For all my whining, I really love the Beast makeup, and Kelsey Grammar's performance. And I enjoyed the few scenes with Kitty Pryde, one in particular, which was humorous but nicely well thought out.

One final observation, for whatever it's worth. Why is that everyone who spends time at Xavier's school eventually lose their accent? Storm seems to have lost her really bad African accent between films one and two and now talks like any other happening chick. Colossus doesn't have a Russian accent, although he has so few lines in the second or third films that it's almost hard to tell anyway. And unless my ears are playing tricks on me, Rogue seems to have dispensed with her Southern accent between two and three. Perhaps this is a hitherto unknown ability of Xavier's that has never been explored?

Oh, and people at the screening today must have thought I was a complete loser, telling all of them to stay through the credits, but I thought it was a public service.

No kidding... best superhero movie ever. And second best comic book movie ever, after Sin City. It was everything I'd ever want in an X-Men movie (except, perhaps, a better use of Madrox... he's basically a one man army, and Magneto uses him as a diversion?).

And Juggernaut has the best line in the movie. I nearly cried from joy when I heard it. It still makes me laugh sitting here thinking about it.

Just got back from seeing X3. I read Peter's review before going and I've read it again now... Frankly a writer of Peter's calibur I don't understand how he can say the movie kicked ass. As an effects extravaganza it was on the level of Revenge of the Sith, fantastic. As a movie with a plot and characterization, once again I thought I was watching revenge of the sith, poor plot, really poor characterization.

The cast is excellently chosen, Kelsey is the embodiment of the beast. As always Ian and Patrick can take the worst dreg and raise it up to at least good and Hugh was believeable. Famke, had no part unless that was to glower at the sets. My friends and I left the theater debating if she had more or less dialog than Arnold did in the Terminator.

Continuing the Star Wars vs X-Men analogy. Anakin's fate at the end of the Sith left me with an emotional response, no matter how bad the lumbering crap fest of a plot was and how bad the acting was. After 3 movies I had an emotional investment somewhat in the character. In X3 I kept thinking, would you get it over with all ready!

This movie is a trainwreck.

I just got back from seeing the movie, and while I really did enjoy it, here are my random list of things to rant about..

Accents... yeah, I noticed that too, Joe. I can't imagine how hard it must be to maintain those little things. It's those little things like the accents (or lack thereof) that still bother me.

No, they probably won't bother most other people, but there's a reason this movie is X-Men and not Some Other Group of Characters with Similar Powers. Rogue is a southern belle, Pyro is Australian, Wolverine is Canadian... it's not difficult.

I'm also not fond of fundamental changes to a character just for the sake of a minor plot point in the movie. Case in point: making Juggernaut a mutant.

They apparently confused Kid Omega with one of the Spikes.

Using Arclight from the Marauders instead of the natural Brotherhood choice of Avalanche...

Did Callisto have the ability to move like that in the comics, or was that given to her just to give her something else useful instead of introducing another character? I'm still trying to figure out who they confused her with for her appearance. :)

I was left scratching my head in the end credits, because while I thought I knew which girl was Siryn (same girl that actually got to use Siryn's power in X2, but didn't really look familiar), but where the hell was Psylocke that she's in the credits!?
And Artie? Is that the kid that blinks to change the channel?

Go figure: Jubilee has appeared in all three, with three different actresses iirc, had a line or two of dialogue total, and still didn't get to show her powers. :)

Multiple Man was good though, even with what few lines he had. Although, it would've been cooler to see him actually use his power to create the duplicates.

And in the end Cyclops was treated like crap in the entire trilogy, imo.

Craig, you picked up more names than I did, although if I was trying to identify them by powers, costumes or whatever, I'm not sure I would have been all that successful.

I don't remember Callisto having any extraordinary powers when she first appeared, which was X-Men 170 or 171 I think, although she does have a knife fight with Storm who stabs her in the heart, thus becoming new leader of the Morlocks. Does anybody remember her having any powers at all?

Frankly, I'm not all that bothered about Juggernaut being a mutant. I did miss the original costume, which was very cool indeed. Funnily enough, I was recently talking to Norman Cabrera who did a lot of the design work for the character, and who by the way, is a big comic book fan. The original film costume was going to be very much like the comic book version, right down to the helmet, for which they constructed an elaborate ball and socket assembly so that the helmet could rotate around within the collar. It sounded like a great idea, but when they cast Jones as Juggernaut, the producers wanted people to see more of him, so the helmet and costume were cut way back. Pity.

I saw it today, and I thought it was... decent. On the plus sides, the action sequences were pretty well done. Kelsey Grammar was perfection as the Beast. The three storylines coming together at the end worked quite well. And they *really* broke with comic-book canon to provide some surprises. (Fret not, I'm keeping things spoiler-free here.)

Alas, as with the previous two movies someone felt there was a need to cram every possible mutant from the comic books into the movies, resulting in many beloved characters appearing as nothing more than extras. (Psylocke, anyone?) Storm's accent seemed to come and go. (They long ago abandoned Wolverine's Canadian accent. Imagine the uber-tough guy sounding like Puck -- or French! Hasn't happened since the first poorly-animated Marvel cartoons, won't happen again.) There were several scenes put in solely to show some action, and it's hard to see this movie having a broad enough appeal to reach non-comic fans. When I review it, I'll give it a B: not bad, but not something I'd see again.

"I'm also not fond of fundamental changes to a character just for the sake of a minor plot point in the movie. Case in point: making Juggernaut a mutant."

What else would they make him? You really want to bring the whole Cyttorak ruby thing into it? In an X-Men movie, you can't bring non-mutant superpeople into it. It simply wouldn't work.

And anyway, he's a mutant in Ultimate X-Men.

"Did Callisto have the ability to move like that in the comics, or was that given to her just to give her something else useful instead of introducing another character?"

The latter. They apparently combined Quicksilver and Caliban to create her (I didn't even know it was meant to be her until the end credits). In the comics, I believe her only powers are enhanced senses (well, I understand she now has tentacles, but I didn't read Excalibur, so I don't know what that's all about).

"but where the hell was Psylocke that she's in the credits!?"

My only guess is that she's the chick with the purple hair, who seems to have Kitty's powers.

"And Artie? Is that the kid that blinks to change the channel?"

No, it's the kid with the lizard tongue, although I don't remember seeing him in The Last Stand (and I was trying to keep an eye out for familiar faces).

Peter, THANK YOU from the bottom of my mutie-loving heart for letting me know to stay through the credits. As if I wasn't ALREADY blown away...

Saw the midnight show and I thought it was fantastic.

I'd give it a 9 out of 10 and put it on par with X2 and a bit better than the first one.

I know there are a lot of people who can't wait to tear a movie like this apart, and you can sure do that with X3 if you want. I choose not to. Was it entertaining? Hell yeah. Would I watch it again? Yes, many times on DVD.

X-Men isn't meant to be an Oscar nominee for Best Picture. Summer blockbusters generally aren't. But I have a lot more fond movie memories of watching popcorn flicks than an Oscar-nominated think-pieces, and I often wonder why some critics hold some of those movies up on such a high pedistal.

Anyway, I saw the scene at the very end of the moving coming, but did not see the scene after the credits coming ... yet it made perfect sense. Great zinger to go home with.

I think somebody should look at continuing the franchise above and beyond the Wolverine flick that's on the way. There are so many different directions to go, and I think you could make a pretty good flick as long as you have some of the mainstays.

I look forward to spoiler-rich talkback!

Posted by Kath at May 25, 2006 04:39 PM

This is the last movie that the current cast signed for when they first signed for the original film. Now they would have to offer them a new contract for the roles for any additional films

Bet i can guess who's said they'd be willing to come back and who said this was it...

Someone on the writing staff is either a magician or thinks like one -- one of the prettiest pieces of misdirection, planting a "Chekhov's gun" (so to speak) in the guise of something else entirely.

Whoever conceived, plotted and designed the bridge sequence has no idea how suspension bridges work.

Why did all the cars have their lights on? It was daylight when they stopped there.

The film -- at least as presented -- implies that Angel can make about Mach 4 using just his cute feathery wings. (And the sequence that introduces him is one of the more shuddersome bits i've seen in a while...)

They got the mandatory Hitchcock -- i mean Stan Lee -- cameo over early, didn't they? (Or wasn't that Stan with the hose?) Stan's best cameo yet is Willie Lumpkin. Perfect. (How the heck did Jack know what Stan was gonna look like forty-odd years down the road?)

Kelsey Grammer was, indeed, great "This *used* to fit me", forsooth.

Kitty and Juggernaut -- loved it. Ditto Kitty and Bobbie's jump off the roof.

My own reaction to "We can cure you" was "I'd rather you cured me of breathing" -- but i was only thinking of Storm, Wolverine and so forth; seconmd thought was that there would be, i'm sure, a number of mutants (analagous to the "Jokers" in the "Wild Cards" books) who might jump at the chance...

Am i just sick, or did anyone else flash on Xander's "Crayon-breaky Willow" speech in the final big sequence?

Overall, loved it. I do expect another sequel, sooner or later.

Well, I have to say - I LOVED it!

I really thought it was a great film. MUCH better then the first one and close to the second.

I thought the handling of the Jean/Cure storyline was great, and interwoven with a lot more panache then I expected. Let's be honest, I didn't expect much from Ratner. I groaned when he got the gig. But I never lost hope that he'd do right by the characters and the first two movies. I'm glad I didn't.

There were tons of great moments, none of which I'll spoil. I will say that I thought Kitty was the best addition to the cast. I wish we'd seen more of Angel.

Oh, and how cool was Madrox? They have him the T-shirt with the symbols and everything! And even in two lines the actor conveyed a lot of personality.

Who wants to sign him up for the X-Factor TV series? I mean, if they can make the crap that was Mutant X, surely someone would spend the money for an X-men movie spin-off about a group of mutant PI's. Right?

Loved it. Thank's to PAD I stayed through the credits (Stan's not the only creator cameo listed in the credits). I did see the end bit coming though.

David

I loved the movie!! It doesn't bother me that it wasn't totally faithful to the comic books. I just take it as a given that the superheroes of films usually inhabit different universes than their comic book counterparts. And how could the filmmakers bring in Juggernaut's comic book origin and Phoenix as an alien entity without confusing the non-comic geek audience? X-Men 3 did a great job in wrapping up the storyline of the trilogy which concerned exploring the place mutants (read it "those who are different") have in the world and what strategy the mutants will use in order to bring about change and acceptance.

And in a movie titled "The Last Stand" I expected to see a big blow-out battle. I wasn't disappointed. In fact, I belive this was the best cinematic superhero battle since Superman II.

I was surprised by some of the developments in the movie. And Wolverine is totaly cool as always and Madrox gets a great scene and a great line. McKellen and Stewart are superb, as is the Juggernaut vs. Kitty Pride sequence.

I rate the movie three and three-quarters stars out of four. I took off a quarter of a point because Halle Berry seemingly chose not to act all that much while making the film.

Here are two spoiler-free additional thoughts about the movie:

1) How did this get a PG-13 rating? Not only did this film have a pretty high body count, but most of the killings were done in a pretty gruesome fashion, often involved major characters, and happened onscreen. (This could be the "if there's no blood, it's not that bad" theory of acceptable violence, so popular in comic books.)

2) Why aren't there action figures based on this movie? The only releases I've seen are five new X-Men figures -- but they're the figures from the comic books' not the movie. Considering how nice looking many of the characters are, you think there'd be more figures.

(BTW, Psylocke appeared as a background character during Magneto's speech in the chapel. She has no dialogue or action; you only know it's her because of the pink slash-tattoo over her eye.)

You really want to bring the whole Cyttorak ruby thing into it?

They didn't have to mention anything about it one way or the other.

You wouldn't have even known one way or the other until they show that Juggernaut indeed has to be a mutant.

No, it's the kid with the lizard tongue, although I don't remember seeing him in The Last Stand

Hrm. No idea then.

The eye-blinking kid was also in X2 (or at least the character was), which is why I picked up on him as perhaps being Artie.

you only know it's her because of the pink slash-tattoo over her eye.

I completely missed it then.

"You wouldn't have even known one way or the other until they show that Juggernaut indeed has to be a mutant."

I don't really understand what you're saying here.

I don't really understand what you're saying here.

See, this is why I barely ever talk about movies when I can't go into spoilers. :P

Was that Chris claremont mowing the lawn?

I honestly liked the film. It wasn't overwhelming, and it didn't "triumphantly end the trilogy," but it was remarkably competent.

I do think more time should have been given to some of the characters, and the dialog was lacking a little, but overall, it worked. Especially that line from Juggernaut that got several unexpected giggles from animation geeks like me in the audience.

I also like the fact that certain risks were taken with characters that most sequels are afraid to take. (Trying to keep this spoiler-free.) This forced the focus onto other characters and - in a way - forced them to "grow up" and take greater responsibility. Since there will be certain "solo films" by these characters in the future, showing them having to carry extra weight in this film is a good basis for those films.

And damn it, I walked out during the credits and missed the whatever-the-heck-happened. I just wasn't feeling very well and needed sleep. I hope to find out what I missed - heck, I liked it enough to pay for another admission, especially with that moronic "Omen" remake the only thing coming next week.

I avoided this thread because I didn't want to see anything to spoil it for me. THANKFULLY I overheard the guy behind us staying we need to sit through the credits to catch something we shouldnt miss. Whew.

I really liked it, but I was a wee bit disappointed by certain aspects.

My God, what a pile of F*&(*&(* S)(*)(*)(*)(

Ratner was the worse choice ever to make it and has for what happened with the Golden Gate Bridge, I think they want to give terrorists ideas.

Sorry, I didn't like it, and I'm liking it less the more I think about it. It felt less like the smart, soulful X-movie I was expecting and more like a "hey, let's see how much stuff we can ruin/blow up" sequel. I'm all for big changes/killing characters off, but they just weren't handled right. The characters act in ways that make no sense in terms of their prior character development, the dual plots (the 'cure'/the dark Pheonix) didn't mix well at all, and the Pheonix storyline was spectacularly mishandled. Really conspicuous continuity errors (like the sudden day/night switch during the final battle) didn't help, either. I'd love to specifically identify each and every little thing I hated about the movie, but I don't think it's possible without violating PAD's spoiler edict, and I've already wasted enough mental airtime this weekend with the franchise's latest entry.
I haven't seen a sequel this bad since 'Highlander II.' I can only hope for an 'X-Men 4: The Apology". Thumbs down.

The main problem with this movie was that Dark Phoenix and the cure were each more than enough material to be movies unto themselves. Trying to integrate them into a single movie (and not even a long movie) prevented either story from being fully and properly developed. It's as if they suddenly realized they weren't going to be able to make an X4, so they decided to cram EVERY idea they had for an X-Men movie into X3.

Yes, he was. He was listed in the credits as "Lawnmower Man" iirc.

It was so early in the movie that he and Stan get their cameos that it wasn't until they showed Stan that I thought "Crap, I just missed Claremont".

Ratner was the worse choice ever to make it and has for what happened with the Golden Gate Bridge, I think they want to give terrorists ideas.

If terrorists want to pick up the Golden Gate Bridge and move it to Alcatraz, they're welcome to try.

Since the bridge has been mentioned, I can discuss it without fear that I'm revealing a spoiler.

I thought moving the bridge was an effect done for its own sake. Considering Magneto's powers, he could have made a "flyng carpet" of metal to quickly bring everyone over, instead of a grandiose action that gave the troops plenty of warning that he was on his way. And while the film showed that Magneto was perfectly willing to sacrifice mutants that opposed his cause, you think he'd choose a stealthier way to attack rather than the way that led to the elimination of so many of his mutants.

Count me among those who didn't like it. Lots of good ideas, all of which were horribly executed.

I couldn't have hated this movie more. By the end, I couldn't express myself profanely or loudly enough to satisfy the ire that was welling up in me. The story leaps through it's plot points nearly because it has to. Of necessity, they do the Dark Phoenix story, but apparently they couldn't find enough material in ONE OF THE GREATEST AND MOST SIGNIFICANT X-MEN STORIES OF ALL TIME to fill out a movie, so they go into Joss Whedon's recent fantastic story. The final muddled mess doesn't give enough time to either story.

Aside from not having character development, you have character devolvment. Wolverine might as well have been Cyclops with a healing factor and adamantium claws for the way he behaved in this movie. The finale, and the way the "X-men" acted was completely without the ethics we've come to expect from either camp.

And the end, I want to do this without spoiling, but Wolverine does not get to do that. That story element is not Wolverine's and to give it to him (and everything else stolen from another X-character who got the really short end of the stick in this movie) was like Brett Ratner reaching through the screen to punch me in the face.

Expect more from your art, folks. "It's just a popcorn flick" doesn't work anymore in the world after the first two X-Men and Spiderman movies.

BTW, if you want to read my full (still spoiler free!) review of X-MEN: THE LAST STAND, it's posted at The Armchair Critic http://www.blogger.com/posts.g?blogID=19763280 . More viewers are always welcome!

"On its first day the third "X-Men" film garnered a jaw-dropping $44.1 million, the second biggest opening day for any film of all time, behind only last year's "Star Wars: Episode III" ($50.0m), and the third highest single day take (behind SW3 and Shrek 2) ever. The amount sits well above the opening day of "X2" ($31.2m) and is more than half again what "The Da Vinci Code" took on its opening day ($28.6m)."

Whatever genius decided to pretty much end the series, instead of gradually nurse into a franchise, needs to have his/her ass so fired.

So much wasted potential . . . .

Sasha--It's not the end of the franchise. There's the Wolverine Film already in the works, a Magneto film disccused, and the movie's estimated to make a $107 Million this weekend. There will be an X4. I hear Peter David's gonna write it (might as well start the rumor mill early).

Psylocke's the one in the church scene and the final battle with the purple hair and Crimson Dawn slash under her eye.

I was thinking the bridge bit was unnecessary, I mean, just steal a ferry...but decided that basicly, Magneto was making a statement.

And boy, Paramount should learn from Fox on how to deal with Patrick Stewart problem!

Sasha, you don't really believe this was the end, do you? By now, chapagne corks are probably popping over at Fox based on the opening weekend numbers, and some well-paid executive is already spin-doctoring X-Men 3 as 'the end of a trilogy, not the end of the series.' Mind you, I'd be perfectly happy seeing a solo film for just about every character, with the exception Storm, who as played by Halle Berry shows all the acting range of, well, Catwoman. If I didn't know it was the same actress who won an actress for Monster's Ball, I would be convinced she had a much less talented twin who gets to do all the super-hero stuff.

Well, I'm sure there will be spin-offs and maybe even prequels, but I personally felt they shot their most of their entire load in terms of storylines and such.

They could do a sequel, but the movie was pretty much written (IMHO) as the last of the series.

Sasha I disagree..

The final scene (before the credits) shows that a lot of what they shot this time might be reloaded.

and thus we have coming soon X4: X-Men Reloaded

On another topic, is this the first comic-book movie to make it to a third sequel relatively unscathed? Supes didn't do it, neither did Bats, as both their third outings were miserable.

David: depends on what you think of Blade 3, I suppose.

""It's just a popcorn flick" doesn't work anymore in the world after the first two X-Men and Spiderman movies."

Which ARE "just popcorn flicks." There's nothing artistic about them (although X2 comes close), and in fact I think the Spider-Man movies are about as popcorny as they come, emphasis on the corny (especially the second one, which had many moments that were laughably bad). The first X-Men movie was pretty cheesy too, especially in the action sequences, but I still like it.

You'd be better off saying the phrase doesn't work anymore after Raiders of the Lost Ark, but since that was 25 years ago and clearly the phrase still works, I can't agree with you.

Then again, I'm not really a fan of the expression. A movie is a movie, and it has to rise or fall on its own merits. If I like a movie, I would never defend it by saying it's "just a popcorn movie." I'd defend it by saying it's a good movie. So in that sense I agree with you.

Really? You liked this movie? I'm shocked. You're an amazing writer that always dealt with characters and character development... I thought the movie was lacking any sort of depth and loyalty to the previous movies or comics with every character being one-dimensional or contradictory (Magneto especially). Nothing on Wolvie's origin, no Cerebro, Angel's plot arc literally had no contribution to the drama whatsoever... I would have loved if Cyclops and Wolverine continued to fight against each other/for Jean up until the bitter end, but alas, no such luck.

As far as the action sequences go... I wasn't too excited. Iceman vs Pyro was a battle of jazz hands. Didn't Pyro make flame constructs? How awesome would it have been if Pyro sent flame dogs and animals against Iceman? How about Juggernaut vs Colossus? Nope. The other things that bothered me about the movie would have to reveal spoilers, so I'll keep that to myself (and my own blog post).

Feh... I'm gonna go read some old X-Factor issues; I'll feel better after that. (Victor Chalker: best villain ever created)

but where the hell was Psylocke that she's in the credits!?
Background mutant for Magneto.

Also, I completely disagree with Dave - Wolvie wasn't Cyclops with claws, at all, and I think that it fits very well with comic history. But I'll leave it at that til a spoiler thread pops up around here.

That said, I really enjoyed this movie. I clapped, I laughed, I cried (oh, I fucking cried, those bastards), and have been chewing over it for the last 24 hours. I thought that the questions being asked were profound and handled brilliantly, and I especially loved the highlight of Charles and Eric's relationship, and how they're very much two sides of the same coin. The ethical consideration of their choices and the effcts of those choices was just awesomeness on film.

But, perhaps I should put a standard me disclaimer, in noting that I study medicine and ethics, particularly bioethical issues, so really, they couldn't have made a movie more perfectly tailored to what I find mentally fascinating if they'd read my mind.

The day after i saw the film, describing Juggernaut for my wife, who doesn't read comics, i suddenly flashed on "What if Juggernaut and the Blob came up against each other?"

I mean, Juggy can't be stopped once he gets moving, and Blob can't be moved once he gets set...

No spoilers, but I found it sadly ironic that Magneto became the thing he most hated - someone who wanted to commit genocide in order to head off a perceived threat to his kind. For someone who was thrown into a Nazi concentration camp, you'd think someone would have pointed out to him what he was turning into. Especially after he demonstrated why he doesn't have a tattoo. It was really his big speech in the woods where this all becomes apparent.

I like how Magneto's been portrayed in these films; you can actually sympathize with his cause, but it's clear that his actions are reprehensible. Hard to pull off a lot of the time, so I give the writers and McKellen many props for letting that aspect of his character come through.

XMEN THE LAST STAND....

I fraking LOVED IT!!!!

I saw this movie yesterday and as the proud owner of nearly every Xmen comic book in existence I can honestly say that any true FANBOY will be thrilled with this movie.

The special effects, the shocking twists at the end.

I don't want to spoil the movie for the people that haven't seen it but you have to stay to the end after all the credits are run and then see the true fate of an Xmen.

4 out of 5 WSJ3 stars.

And lest I forget the new Superman Returns and the Super Ex-Girl Friend trailers were WELL worth the price of admission.

Regards:
Warren S. Jones III

I saw this movie yesterday and as the proud owner of nearly every Xmen comic book in existence I can honestly say that any true FANBOY will be thrilled with this movie.

I gotta admit, this is a contradiction in terms since fanboys are also the ones who will be most up in arms over this film due to the changes and so forth. :)

And lest I forget the new Superman Returns and the Super Ex-Girl Friend trailers were WELL worth the price of admission.

My Super Ex-Girlfriend looks like it could be a lot of fun, and it's about time somebody took a more interesting approach to superheroes besides the stuff Marvel & DC have been putting out.

But Superman Returns? Still not seeing a reason to watch it.

My wife won't see Ghost Rider, and I'm still undecided as to whether I'll go see it. So far, the only Marvel flicks my wife and I have missed are Punisher and Elektra, and it took some convincing to get her to go to Hulk and Fantastic Four.

I haven't seen it yet but I've heard all kinds of stuff about it both good and bad, im hoping it will be good but my all-time favorite character nightcrawler has gone missing.im planning on seeing it this Friday and I can't wait to see the scene after the credits

Here's me review for my paper I write for (www.viewmag.com/film.php ! Pimp!) Mild to moderate spoilers throughout. Short of it is, I really liked it - it reminded me of big anniversary issues (kind of like Avengers Disassembled) when NOTHING WILL EVER BE THE SAME! Pretty gutsy move for a superhero flick.

And, as a bonus, I also shoehorned in a plug for PAD's "Madrox" mini-series as well. (Kickbacks, dude. Kickbacks.)

---

**** out of *****
4 out of 5

In comics, sometimes when they hit anniversary issues (say issue 50 or 100), there is a kind of housecleaning of several characters - people die, or are changed, or new characters are introduced, and general craziness abounds. These issues are always hot sellers and argued about amongst fans. X-Men: The Last Stand plays out like one of those "special" issues. And in the, at times, generic genre of superhero movies where everything ends up okay, The Last Stand's dedication to shake things up is refreshingly original and pretty daring.

Yes, one could look at it from a more cynical perspective - as the salaries of the ensemble cast continues to skyrocket, the producers need to cut costs somewhere so mass wiping out of the characters seems like the way to do it. But one must remember that this is the X-Mutant universe we're talking about - there are a plethora of different characters to choose from. To change the landscape is actually more true to the spirit of the X-Men comics than just having everything hunky dory when the credits roll.

For the third X-Men outings, the subtler tones of the earlier films have been abandoned for a more guns blazing, “unleash Hell!” final fight. This time around, the mutant population is aflutter because a mutant “cure” has been released, potentially signifying the end of mutant-kind. While Magneto (Ian McKellen – excellent as always) rallies his Brotherhood of mutants to put an end to this, good guy Xavier (Patrick Stewart) has to contend with the reappearance of the no-longer-dead Jean Grey (Famke Janssen).

Like most zombies, Jean doesn’t come back from the dead all that happy, so the X-crew has to contend with her dangerous “Phoenix” personality. The movie “Phoenix” plot is admittedly way different from the comic book source (that “Phoenix” had to do with aliens and lots of gobbely-gook that still being sorted out today) – but the spirit of “Bad Crazy Jean” still remains in The Last Stand. With a lesser actress, Phoenix’s theatrics would seem like a lame Carrie rip off, but Janseen is good enough to make all the bombast seem creepy, otherworldly, and scarily powerful.

There are many new mutant characters introduced throughout the film – newbies to the X-Universe will probably feel a little lost. Kitty Pride (Canadian Ellen Page), the mutant who can walk through walls, finally joins the ranks of the X-Men after two previous non-speaking cameos. Either intentionally or unintentionally, Page manages to convey a sort of fragility that makes the character of Kitty Pride so interesting in the comics.

One of the movie’s best moments has to come from the character of the Juggernaut (Vinnie Jones). Months ago an audio re-dub of an old X-Men cartoon became a minor internet sensation (search “Juggernaut” on www.youtube.com). In the video, the character of the Juggernaut repeatedly said, “I’m the Juggernaut, bitch!” Flash forward to the release of X-Men 3 . . . and in the 3rd act fight Juggernaut yells out, “I’m the Juggernaut, bitch!” It’s a bizarrely 4th wall moment that signifies how self-admittedly crazy this movie is.

Another newcomer is Jamie “Multiple Man” Madrox (Eric Dane). He isn’t in it too much, but I got a pure geek charge just out of seeing him (pick up the “Madrox” comic for a great read with this character). Unfortunately, Madrox is taken out of the movie way too early to make any impact. Logistically speaking, it really doesn’t make much sense to not have Madrox involved in Magneto’s climatic action-packed showdown. Considering how most of the Brotherhood fights like complete wimps, the self-replicating mutant would be handy to keep around. Maybe that’s the reason why Madrox was sidelined - because he’s simply too awesome.

Two of the previous X-movie alums get the short end of the stick – Rebecca “Don’t Call Me Stamos” Romijn as Mystique and James Marsden as Cyclops. Both their scenes are limited, but their bits are memorable and involve lots of scenery-chewing moments. Truly disappointing is the criminal under usage of Anna Paquin as Rogue; for someone who had the whole 1st movie centered her, and is a good actress to boot, Rogue merely fades into the background in The Last Stand. All her character “arc” really does is make her boyfriend, Bobby Drake/Iceman (Shawn Ashmore), seem like an asshole.

The lineup behind the camera has changed; the first two installments were by Bryan Singer, but The Last Stand was directed by Brett Ratner (Rush Hour, Red Dragon). Ratner’s X-film doesn’t have the pure visual imagination that Singer’s movies did – those were great to watch because the previous director knew how to work a camera with simple things like framing interesting shots. Ratner’s visual take seems very… workmanlike. It still looks good, but it doesn’t pop off the screen like Singer’s X-movies.

Last Stand’s final 3rd act fight is supposed to deliver the goods promised, and, for the most part, it does. The scene opens spectacularly cool with Magneto “building a bridge” to humanity. In fact, it opens so strong that the rest of the fight feels a little limp. Most of the Brotherhood of mutants end up being reduced to nameless fodder. But it still ends strong with a great showdown between two main characters of the series, in a scene chock full of comic-book-y pathos.

The film moves along at a brisk pace that some may complain as being too rushed. But what others see as rushed, I see as getting your money’s worth. While it doesn’t pay off the trilogy in a sublimely perfect way like Revenge of the Sith did, its Last Stand is still pretty good. Watching it, I felt like I was watching a big, honkin’ CAN’T MISS issue come to life. If X-Men: The Last Stand were a comic, it’d be a hot item one.

When I say popcorn, I mean a movie devoid of emotional resonance. This might be any movie with Vin Diesel or your average Michael Bay "explosion porn" movie. Movies try to have emotional resonance (note the awful Daredevil movie) but it takes a skilled director to do it.

The Rush Hour guy is not that director. During crucial, emotional moments I laughed out loud. I wanted to like this movie. I was pulling for it to be good. But the "impactful" moments designed to evoke emotions were flat for lack of involvement in the story. The pacing was off and so we never get to connect with the characters. It just takes off running so when it falls and scrapes its knee, it's more funny than poignant.

Finally, it's chock full of stuff that is included merely to "look cool." The bridge is the most glaring example of that because it doesn't hold to logic, physics or the characters that Magneto bends the Golden Gate Bridge to Alcatraz. I recall someone being thrown through a ceiling and then falling back through that ceiling in a way that completely defies physics but is supposed to "look cool."

We can expect better from our comic book movies now. We're all grown up now. We expect better from the funny books and we should expect better from their adaptations.

"Truly disappointing is the criminal under usage of Anna Paquin as Rogue; for someone who had the whole 1st movie centered her, and is a good actress to boot, Rogue merely fades into the background in The Last Stand."

And this was my big disappointment as well ...

I've no real interest in seeing this movie, but I can't imagine this being the last one. Does anyone know if there's been a film series in which the sequels each did better than the original? There's usually diminishing returns.

Bride of Frankenstein is such a better film than the original.

I wondered whether Rogue was under-used or if they just forgot about her, the way that Cyclops pretty much vanishes for a big chunk of film two. It reminds me of the scenes from Seinfeld where Jerry and George are writing the pilot, and they've just got too many characters to keep track of.

Hope this isn't too close to being a spoiler, but for the Rogue fans out there, the way she is in the movies, there just wasn't a whole lot more they could've done with her. And she does have one of the most powerful sequences in the movie. Now, if she'd met up with Ms. Danvers, whole new movie unwinds.

Really liked Hank's initial reactions to, well, everything he was exposed to.

My stars and garters. Perfect.

Only problem I had with it was not showing more of Warren's father's backstory. But hey, it's not his movie.

Seen it twice now. Enjoyed it the first time, although I had this nagging feeling that it sucked and I didn't realize it yet. I guess I chalk it up to two things.

First, what PAD said about the movie being more plot-driven than character-driven. Not necessarily anything wrong with that, except I realized I missed all those little character moments that were in the previous movie. I didn't get a strong sense of any character arcs in this one.

Second, the cliched writing. If I can predict what the characters are going to say before they say it, it's either because I'm attuned to that character's personality (not bloody likely) or it's a cliche.

Spoiler-free example:
"It's what we want."
"No... It's what you want."

I wondered whether Rogue was under-used or if they just forgot about her, the way that Cyclops pretty much vanishes for a big chunk of film two.

Yeah, but at least he got captured and had an excuse. Rouge spent 50% of the movie standing in line.

You complain about Madrox not having enough screen time, but to be honest, I was thrilled that Madrox was in an X-Men movie at all. When they're leaving out more high profile characters completely, like, say, Gambit, it's great Multiple Man managed to squeeze through the door. Using him as a villain was strange, but if he had been a hero, it certainly would have ruined the "Six of us against dozens of them" aspect of the last battle. He only had two lines, but he managed to do One Cool Thing, which is more than I could have hoped. (I'd assumed he'd just be Wolverine fodder). If there is a next movie, they could easily say the Brotherhood Madrox was just an evil duplicate, after all.

Hi.
Just saw it with my son (wife doesn't care about anything related to "those damn funny books"). I'm not an "X-geek". In general, I don't buy any X-books if I can help it (I got hooked on Wolverine during the JRJr. run starting with issue 20 or 21). I loved this movie. So many unexpected moments and what I thought was a good story with great effects. I am going back to see the tag at the end of the credits (I wish I had read PAD's post first!) and to watch Halle Berry walk. That alone was worth the price of admission. Oh my stars and garters, the woman *reeks* with sex appeal!!!

Bel

Why the hell were the villains running away at the end when Psylocke could simply have teleported them? (The film's version of Psylocke teleports through shadows.)

In fact, why have Psylocke in the movie at all if you're not gonna have her do anything? The worst part is, it will now be almost impossible to have Psylocke appear in any future X-films (at least in the current continuity).

Great movie. Great trilogy. It’s not easy to make all three movies in a trilogy shine, especially with different creators, so kudos to the creators and to Marvel for pulling it off. (Speaking of different creators, does anyone know why imdb lists no screenwriter for this movie? Was there an Alan Smithee incident, or something?)

I really liked the coordination of the action plot, the bigotry allegory, and the development of the characters and the interpersonal relationships. I liked how once again, we got to see more mutants appear, and with this film, now all five original X-Men have appeared.

I was also very interested with the adaptation of the non-mutant comic material. While I was a bit skeptical of the possession of solid-hologram technology in the Danger Room (which is harder to pull off in a series that does not reference premises outside of the main mutant/bigotry one), I really liked how they adapted Juggernaut into the story as a mutant. Mostly, however, they way they adapted the Phoenix entity in the story (and the “Dark Phoenix Saga” as well) was a stroke of genius, though the resolution between Wolvie and Jean more closely mirrored a story with him and Mariko.

I thought that the cure, for example, was a genuinely terrifying premise, both from the point of view of mutants who were proud of their powers, and of the audience, who wouldn’t want Wolverine or some other good guy to be neutered. I wonder if anyone has tried this premise in the books since I stopped reading them on a regular basis (they’ve always had power neutralizers but not, when I was a reader, a permanent, irreversible cure), and it goes to show you how good the movie’s creators are that they can make a story not only as good as any in the books, but even better. When I was a reader, the books never addressed the fact, for example, that the angst of Rogue’s inability to be physically intimate with anyone would’ve been moot if they simply utilized the power neutralizer technology possessed by numerous people or groups in the Marvel Universe, such as Magneto, Forge, the Hellfire Club, etc., which at one time or another were all allied with the X-Men. In this movie, they’re not so obtuse as to try and pretend that it’s not an issue that they can explore.

I liked how certain aspects of the story played out vis a vis my expectations, such as the final revelation about the cure, though I suppose one could say that it mirrored a storyline in the books.

NITS & NOTES: (Just for fun.)
Wow! Not only has Hank McCoy undergone his blue and furry transformation since the last film, but he’s developed a British accent too!

If Hank’s furry form is not part of his prenatal mutation (much as it is in the comics), then how can Leech’s neutralization power affect it? Or does Leech’s power affect any mutation?

How can Leech’s power, which seems to work on the basis of some type of proximity field effect, be synthesized as an injectable antibody? Roger Ebert speculated that it was pheromonic, but do pheromones really work when someone is standing as far away from you, as Hank is when he first meets Leech?

At one point during the Danger Room sequence, Colossus is in his flesh form, and then armors up. But then, a moment or two later, he’s back in his flesh form, and has to armor up again. Shouldn’t he stay in his armored form until the simulation is over?

Poor Anthony Heald. He just can’t get a break! Either he’s been taunted by Hannibal Lecter in Red Dragon and Silence of the Lambs, or attacked by Mystique in this movie. Is there some law requiring him to be paired off with dangerous psychopaths in his movies? Casting him in the film was ingenious, even if it probably stemmed from the fact that he had a prior working relationship with Brett Ratner, who directed Red Dragon.

Similar kudos for casting Ken Leung as Kid Omega (the spike-faced guy), having previously worked with Brett Ratner in Rush Hour and then in Red Dragon.

When Callisto tells Magneto that she can detect mutants, he asks her if she can detect a particular one, referring to Mystique. But what is the basis of her ability, and how can she detect Mystique if she’s never met Mystique? Me, I would’ve left out the idea that Callisto is a mutant detector, not simply because it was not in the comics, but because it’s unnecessary. Magneto’s tracking down of Mystique can be explained by virtue of his access to Cerebro technology, or it could simply be left up to the viewer to chalk it up to his general resourcefulness. His presence at Jean Grey’s house could also be explained this way, along with the fact that he is acquainted with her and her childhood residence.

In addition, Callisto’s telling Magneto that she detected a huge electromagnetic disturbance confused me, because I wasn’t sure if this was a reference to Jean, or an indication that Polaris would be introduced. Since when is telekinesis electromagnetic in nature?

Transporting mutants in vehicles made of metal, especially known accomplices of Magneto, was not wise. They know that Magento might’ve tried to free them. They should’ve created trucks, weapons, restraints, and clothing made from non-ferrous composites, something they’ve done in the books.

The guy who plays Jamie Maddrox/Multiple Man not only looks like him, he has the same smart alecky personality that Peter David gave him! Seeing him serve as a ruse for the soldiers in the forest was cool!

That guy who shot darts from his forearms at Wolvie was one bad dude. When we saw the darts emerge from his wrists, I thought at first it was supposed to be a version of Omega Red, but when I realized that he was throwing them, I wondered if it was supposed to be some male version of Marrow. (Interestingly, imdb contains a credit for “Omega Red”, so it must be him.)

The X-Men costume that Beast wears is just dorky-looking. It would’ve looked better if he just wore the pants, and went topless.

In the comics, when Shadowcat/Kitty phases, the molecules of her body pass in between the molecules of the object she’s passing through. If she were to de-phase while in the middle of doing so, it would kill her, as it would anyone else she did this to. But in the movie, she phases Juggernaut into the floor, and it doesn’t kill him; Instead, it just seems to squeeze him into a hole in the floor. (Granted, an issue of Thor treated her power this way, but that was inconsistent with how phasing was treated in the mutant books—either that, or Thor didn’t die because he was a god.)

Iceman fully formed! Yeah!!!

Hey, was that Olivia Williams as Moira MacTaggart? Wow, I didn’t realize it was Williams until that last scene after the closing credits!

DIFFERENCES FROM THE COMIC: (Just for fun.)
The Phoenix is a multiple personality within Jean, and not a cosmic entity.

The Juggernaut is a mutant.

Jamie Madrox/Multiple Man is a criminal.

Callisto and Arclight are Latina instead of Caucasian and Vietnamese. This has the effect of distancing Arclight somewhat from the original reason for her name, since “Arclight” became a popular term for B-52 Stratofortress bomber missions flown during the Vietnam War in support of ground operations.

Callisto is a speedster, and can detect other mutants (like Caliban), whereas in the comics, she simply had heightened senses. The fact that she has two totally different powers in the movie would suggest that she’s a second-generation mutant who inherited a separate ability from each of her parents (much like Nightcrawler in the comics). And rather than having been disfigured/ugly, she’s quite beautiful.

"The Phoenix is a multiple personality within Jean, and not a cosmic entity."

I was thinking after seeing it, the movie is actually closer to the pre-retcon story, in which all the Phoenix *was* Jean, but Jean utilizing her absolute full potential as a psi.

"The Juggernaut is a mutant."
To be fair, Claremont once made the mistake of identifying Juggernaut as a mutant. (See Spider-Woman 37-38.)

"Jamie Madrox/Multiple Man is a criminal."
Wasn't Madrox a criminal in his very first appearance? I haven't read it, I just remember them saying that he "fought the Fantastic Four to a standstill" in that issue. I always thought he debuted as a bad guy.

Mostly, however, they way they adapted the Phoenix entity in the story (and the “Dark Phoenix Saga” as well) was a stroke of genius

Thinking back on it, I think the Phoenix story of the movie was utter crap and completely wasted.

It deserved it's own film from the cure story.

That, and she just stands around as eye-candy for most the movie.

Not only has Hank McCoy undergone his blue and furry transformation since the last film, but he’s developed a British accent too!

Except, Kelsey Grammer isn't British (he was born on St. Thomas, US Virgin Islands. Also, amusingly, David Hyde Pierce was born in Saratoga Springs, NY. Yet, because of their upper-class? accents, people think they're British.

Me, I would’ve left out the idea that Callisto is a mutant detector, not simply because it was not in the comics, but because it’s unnecessary.

Only, once you take into account the fact that Callisto in the movie is nothing like the Callisto in the comics, she's entirely unnecessary period.

Jason-
Yep Maddrox did start as a villian but very briefly. In the Ultimate Marvel universe, Madrox is a member of the Brotherhood of Mutants.
Kath

I always liked the pheonix story, in the comics so i hope it doesn't suck too bad but im going to have to agree with the cure being another movie as well as some other rumors I've heard, I still have'nt seen the movie, but what's this Im hearing about sentinals and Apocalypse in this movie, if they are I think that Ratner is moving way too fast, he should have spread such major villians out and gotten tons of money. I mean why not take Callisto or Marrow and make the Morlocks another movie, and if they're not in the movie(excluding morlocks because I already know they are), well these are some ideas for some sequals.

"Jason-
Yep Maddrox did start as a villian but very briefly."

Thanks, Kath. So the movie isn't really a deviation. (I think you could describe Madrox's appearance in the film as "brief.")

In the comics, when Shadowcat/Kitty phases, the molecules of her body pass in between the molecules of the object she’s passing through. If she were to de-phase while in the middle of doing so, it would kill her, as it would anyone else she did this to. But in the movie, she phases Juggernaut into the floor, and it doesn’t kill him; Instead, it just seems to squeeze him into a hole in the floor. (Granted, an issue of Thor treated her power this way, but that was inconsistent with how phasing was treated in the mutant books—either that, or Thor didn’t die because he was a god.)

He survived because he's the Juggernaut, bitch. :P Even without the magical origin from the comics, he's still unstoppable (as long as his power's active).

The wife and I saw the movie on Saturday. (Don't have to drag her :) She saw part of the original on FX, became interested, and watched my copy of X-Men several times, and X2 MANY times :) We were both greatly looking forward to this one.) We both very much enjoyed it. I'll have to see it a couple more times to decide if it replaces X2 in my mind as "greatest comic book movie ever", but... Man, was this a shocking movie! (Of course, even PAD's introduction to this thread contained more than I wanted to know going in [so I only skimmed that until after seeing the film], so I may have gone in with more potential to be surprised than some; but I think I can safely say that there are several pretty damned surpising occurrences in this film.)

I really do need to see it again to fully process it, but I'll mention a couple of thoughts... (No big spoilers - no more content than many have talked about here, less than some. But, if you don't want to have ANY moment given away - like I was - don't read my post, or most of this thread, actually.)

Glad to see I'm not the only one confused by Psylocke. I was wondering if the speedster/hound was supposed to be her - I must've missed the Callisto name being mentioned. I did catch Arclight's name and had the "OH" moment for her...

And yeah, Beast was pretty cool! The "Stars and Garters" moment did have, as noted above, such gravitas that it took me a second to think "Oh yeah, that's Hank's saying!" And Kitty was also very cool :)

Yeah, I was surprised at Rogue's lesser amount of screen time. But since, on an A-F scale of truth to the comic version of the characters, I've given Rogue a C- to D thus far anyway, I wasn't that truly disappointed by it. No offense to Paquin, who has done very fine work with what she's been given; the wimpy, seat-belt troubled "Marie" (uck) of these films just has never much reminded me of the Rogue I grew up reading. On the other hand, prize for most improved character goes to Storm! Hallie Berry should be happier now - maybe still not perfect Ororo, but getting there.

In "Ultimate X-Men", Jamie Madrox was a member of the Brotherhood, so I think its alright to see him as such. Jamie's a complicated man, and nobody understands him but his woman.

Count me in as one who thought the editing wasn't anything to write home about. The screwup with the time on the bridge/island for one. They tried to do too much in too little time. Didn't work as well as it might.

Oh and *P*E*W* for the scene with Magneto just before the credits. What was the point of ... well, never mind. Don't want to spoil it.

The best comic book movie? Not even close. Try the two ASTERIX live action France/Germany collaborations. Wow.

Count me as one of the folks who (1) was disappointed with X3, and (2) was surprised PAD enjoyed it so much.

The problem IMO is that they should have made two movies -- one with the cure and one with Phoenix -- which would give both stories room to grow and to include the depth and nuance we got in the first two. Instead, by jamming the two together, everything was crammed for space, and the only thing that didn't get smooshed out were the pyrotechnics. Having every plot point and characterization note spelled out merely insulted my intelligence further.

X3 might have been a fluffy but vapid "cotton candy" movie on its own, but as the third movie of a trilogy, it was a disappointing bookend.

(My full review is here.)

--R.J.

For David up above, Gambit does at least exsist in the movie continuity, one of the files Mystique pulls up on Yuriko's computer is for Remy LeBeau. I saw that the first time I saw the movie, but it took me WEEKS after getting the DVD to spot Franklin's name up there.

Madrox a bad guy? A good guy? See, that's one of the thingies I think this series has done right. Even when you think the lines are clearly drawn, no one knows where they are and you can cross them at any time.

BTW, did anyone catch just how long was supposed to have passed between the end of X2 and beginning of Last Stand? If it was in the movie, I might've been too excited by A)having a Brian-less date with my wife and B)watching a new X movie.

BTW, did anyone catch just how long was supposed to have passed between the end of X2 and beginning of Last Stand?

I don't think it says.

But considering there's a new president, you gotta figure some months had passed.

Oh, and we'll just try and forget McCoy's appearance in X2... it's just easier that way. :)

While the movie doesn't specify how long passed between X2 and THE LAST STAND, the LAST STAND videogame is set between those two movies and, according to the game developers, explains the events that lead to THE LAST STAND (or at least why Nightcrawler isn't in the third movie).

I understand Rogue's limited role in this movie, simply because her powers aren't that impressive. In the comic books she had permanently absorbed Ms. Marvel's powers, giving her flight, super strength, and a fair amount of invulnerability. In the movies all she can do is absorb the powers and memories of people she touches. Considering how many mutants could strike from a distance (to say nothing of anyone with a gun or "cure weapon"), her combat effectiveness would be pretty limited.

Speaking of effective, I'm also glad that Angel wasn't a great combat asset. To paraphrase the Seanbaby.com website, flying might be great around you or me, but when you're surrounded by Magneto, Juggernaut, and Storm it kinda pales in comparison.

Well, not only does Angel pale in comparison to virtually any combat oriented mutant out there, you have to wonder(Well, I do, anyway) does he leave feathers lying all over the house? And can you imagine if he was allergic to down? Eeesh.

Yeah, I have just a LITTLE too much time on me hands.

But just think! He could make his own pillows! How's that for a romantic setting, huh? "For your birthday, dear, I made you a pillow. With all natural feathers. Trust me on this one."

Yep. Just too much time.

As someone who is familiar with the comic but never followed it closely, I was able to enjoy the film for the acting, and to a certain extent, the story.

Could anyone say if the storyline with Rogue was consistant with the comics? It felt almost like something they just threw in to have her in the film.

Also, a big thanks for the heads up on the tag at the end of the movie! :)

"The X-Men costume that Beast wears is just dorky-looking. It would’ve looked better if he just wore the pants, and went topless"

Much more involved and expensive appliances.

As far as sequels that were even better than, or built upon the success of the previous, in addition to "Bride of Frankenstein" as Kath mentioned--

Godfather II
Lethal Weapon II and III (but not IV so much)
Superman II (but God knows not III and IV)
Star Trek II and every other Trek film after that
Toy Story II
Dr. No was followed by Goldfinger, still believed to be one of the best Bond films ever
Some say Spider-Man 2, although I prefer the first one.

PAD

...and the Empire Strikes Back over the first Star Wars.

Could anyone say if the storyline with Rogue was consistant with the comics?

I would say, at a glance, yes.

I'm not all that familiar with the specifics of the late 80's and much of the 90's (what I've read has mostly been forgotten), although an episode or two of the FOX X-Men cartoon stands out in my mind.

Of all the X-Men, Rogue would obviously be the one that would want to give up her powers. It's all becoming a little fuzzy now, but I'm sure she has spent quite a bit of time in the comics lamenting the fact that she can't touch anybody.

>As far as sequels that were even better than, or built upon the success of the previous, in addition to "Bride of Frankenstein" as Kath mentioned--
Godfather II
Lethal Weapon II and III (but not IV so much)
Superman II (but God knows not III and IV)
Star Trek II and every other Trek film after that
Toy Story II
Dr. No was followed by Goldfinger, still believed to be one of the best Bond films ever
Some say Spider-Man 2, although I prefer the first one.
PAD

Back to the Future II is the best example of a sequel building on its predessor to become heads and tails above the original film.

Fred

"Could anyone say if the storyline with Rogue was consistant with the comics?"

Kind of a hard call to make, considering that movie-Rogue is one of the biggest deviations from the source material.

As someone pointed out, Rogue in the comics debuted on-panel with Ms. Marvel's powers (having absorbed her permanently during an off-panel fight), so she always had two sets of powers: the absorption deal, and also a set of "Superman"-type abilities -- flight, strength, invulnerability.

She also debuted as a villain, working for Mystique, who was later explained to be her foster mother. And for years, we never learned her name -- she was always just "Rogue." Even after defecting to the X-Men, she always had a tough streak, because of her powers and her background as a terrorist.

And the movie -- besides giving her an apparently normal childhood (rather than having her be raised by a blue-skinned mutant terrorist), a normal first name to be called by, and no other powers besides absorption -- also made her a softer character, and gave her a relationship with Wolverine whose comic-book equivalent would've been the Kitty-Wolverine dynamic, or the Jubliee-Wolverine stuff from the late '80s.

There has probably been a story in which Rogue sought a cure for her powers, but certainly there was no comic book where she did it because her boyfriend Bobby Drake was flirting with Kitty Pryde. I stopped reading the comics after Claremont left, but I'm confident that there has never been a Rogue-Iceman-Kitty love triangle in the comics!

Coming in late to the discussion but...

... thought the movie was alright while watching it, but would have liked to have gotten more absorbed. It just didn't grab me the way my 43-year-old fanboy heart would have liked to have been grabbed.

I did like some of the moves in the final fight. The way each person gets down from the roof in their own way, the Kitty/Juggy chase and the move Kitty pulls (shown in commercials) of phasing, spinning and pulling. It's those little bits that leave a "Oh, yes! That is so totally how someone with those powers would fight. (Aside: It's what bugged me most about the big Jedi battle in "Clones". All these Jedi Masters, you'd expect some seriously cool moves and seemles working together rather than just a bunch of guys wading into a mod waving sabers around.)

But what really kinda spoiled it for me was my being an avid comic reader. Not the rabid "Hey, that's not like the comics" jerk type we all know and don't love. But being familiar enough with the genre to know that changes aren't permanent. I kept expecting the events in Jean's house and in the prison truck to be reversed by the end of the movie. Which lessened the intended impact considerably.

Probably won't go to see it again anytime soon. Was fun while it lasted, but I regret the missed opportunities to add some more depth and character to the movie.

There were so many places where they could have disussed what was going on. Not that I want a movie full of talking heads, but missed opportunities about to add that depth that would make you think as well as just enjoy the knock down drag out fight scenes.
- in the church the first speaker could have gotten into it with Magneto, raised some comparison's of Magneto to the Nazi approach.
- Wolvie and the Prof in the lab disussing what one should/shouldn't do
- Rogue's "They have a cure?" and Storm's reaction to this could have brought out more taht this wasn't a mutant vs humans thing. There are many mutants who don't have cool weather powers, you know.

"... but missed opportunities abound to add that depth..."

couldn't wait any longer so I saw the movie, well first of all Rogue should have had more screen time and that at bit near the end for those who have seen it, well just does'nt lie well with me.I'm still not quite sure where Nightcrawler is in the movie, but I am disappointed, as in the case of Rogue that they didn't use one of the greatest comic characters of all time.And another thing for those who have seen the movie, those who aren't at the end are critical characteters in the comics, does a Cable vs Apocalypse fight ring any bells(for the comic fans)I don't know, they did leave it open, with 1)the last Magneto scene 2)Nightcrawler missing 3)a cure for the cure(to turn them into mutants again)4)the after credits scene and 5)the ressurection of dead characters(because lets face it, as said earlier in this page all x-men have died in various issues but each was ressurected,including the Jean-Pheonix storyline)

"I'm confident that there has never been a Rogue-Iceman-Kitty love triangle in the comics!"

Actually, there has... in Ultimate X-Men.

"I'm confident that there has never been a Rogue-Iceman-Kitty love triangle in the comics!"

Actually, there has... in Ultimate X-Men.

I thought Kitty was with Spider-Man. But then, I haven't really paid that much attention to the X-Men side of Ultimate.

Just saw this movie and.....wow.....just freaking wow. Best comic movie ever.

I have never really followed the comic books (just enough to really appreciate Wolverine and such) and I never even knew who the original five x-men were until I started researching for the movies. In between the first and second movies I actually read some of the comics and discovered something: I preferred the movies. With some exceptions, I found the comics very hard to follow, and found the plot lines often involved, complicated, and involving way to many people and events to really follow well (and I love russian novelists, so it MUST be bad when I think its too complex :)) The movies simplified things. Instead of Star Trek crossovers, or the mutant island, it was a simple, believable plot line, that addresses the issues as they might be in real life.

One of my friends criticized all the changes from the comics. After reading up on the comics I found I agree (or don't care) about most of them. For instance, Angel wasn't one of the original X-men in the movies. Well, thank goodness. Maybe I missed an issue, but as far as I can tell, all he can do is fly. Maybe hit someone with his wings. Maybe even poop on their windshield. But that’s IT?!?!? You have people who can lift sit with their minds and you give him wings?? Who is his arch-nemesis, a dude with a hang glider? Oh sure, one time he gets metal wings with shootable feathers. Still a sucky power.

Anyway, there were problems with this movie, primarily little things that just....irked me. My biggest being that, in the one fight, Magneto should have realized that after God knows how long of the world knowing "hey, the bad guy moves metal!" he didn't realize they would use plastic weapons. That just smacks of poor planning.

For me though, it was the little touches about this movie that really bring it home. As someone else mentioned above, the way everyone gets down from the wall. The use of Beast. Kelsey Grammar as Beast. Magneto showing what a zealot he really is. Actually, the one I liked the most was Kitty. Instead of being a hard-assed superhero like Colossus (pun intended) she is much more youthful, even in the way she runs. When everyone else runs in this movie, (Juggernaut excepted) it is the typical "Hero run:" Head up, arms pumping, skidding across open corridors type of run. The way you expect a superhero to run. When she runs, she runs like what she is: a scared kid trying to think as she goes. Comes across as more believable.

Finally, my friends and I were discussing the fourth x-men movie. I know they said that their would be a fourth if this one did well....so what would (will?) it be?

I think it would be similar to the plot lines in the first 3. Perhaps it takes place a few years down the line, with a new President, elected on an anti-mutant platform (not hard to do after what happened at Alcatraz) We then get the whole original "Mutants Bad" plotlines, and get to really see the Sentinels. Or it might be Apocalypse.

Jason Powell: Wasn't Madrox a criminal in his very first appearance?
Luigi Novi: I seemed to recall that too, but when I double-checked withWikipedia, couldn’t find any mention of it. This technically doesn’t mean that this wasn’t true, since WP is a perpetual work in progress, but I didn’t feel like digging out my MU Handbooks, and figured it was my memory playing tricks on me. Perhaps it wasn’t. :-)

Thanks, Kath. :-)

Red XIV: He survived because he's the Juggernaut, bitch. :P Even without the magical origin from the comics, he's still unstoppable
Luigi Novi: Has it ever been established that being phased would not kill him?

Peter David: Much more involved and expensive appliances.
Luigi Novi: Yeah, I know. Still…… :-)

1I'm curious as to what Peter thought of the guy playing Maddrox?

"I thought Kitty was with Spider-Man. But then, I haven't really paid that much attention to the X-Men side of Ultimate."

You are correct. But before that developement, there was a Kitty-Iceman-Rogue love triangle.

Jason Powell: Wasn't Madrox a criminal in his very first appearance?

Madrox first appeared in an issue of Fantastic Four (Ah, a few seconds with Google and I see it was .) and he was teh "bad guy". IIRC, he was raised on a farm by his dad who created a suit to contain his powers. When dad died the suit started to fail, he wandered into the city, caused problems and came to the attention of the FF. By story end Reed had fixed his suit and Madrox was back on his tractor plowing fields.

Something like that.

sigh Hate it when I get my tags wrong. SOme nice administrator-type person want to just delete my attempt at this posting (and embarrasment)? Glenn?

Jason Powell: Wasn't Madrox a criminal in his very first appearance?

Madrox first appeared in an issue of Fantastic Four (Ah, a few seconds with Google and I see it was Giant Size FF #4.) and he was the "bad guy". IIRC, he was raised on a farm by his dad who created a suit to contain his powers. When dad died the suit started to fail, he wandered into the city, caused problems and came to the attention of the FF. By story end Reed had fixed his suit and Madrox was back on his tractor plowing fields.

Something like that.

As my techno-savvy friend likes to say when searching the net, "Found it in seconds, man. Seconds!"

Synopsis of the first appearance of Jamie Madrox featuring the FF and Prof X.

This was a blast: way more than I expected from it. Like a comic book, it was full of action. I particularly liked how they handled the whole Phoenix thing, which I felt made much more sense than in the books. This raised the bar higher than I think Superman Returns will be able to leap... I'm not a Marvelite first, I'm a DC guy who's enjoying the heck out of Marvel right now, so maybe that's why I wasn't bothered by any of the things long time fans were.

'As my techno-savvy friend likes to say when searching the net, "Found it in seconds, man. Seconds!"'

***Of course, Kathleen David already replied to the question days ago...

"Actually, there has [been a Kitty-Iceman-Rogue love triangle]... in Ultimate X-Men."

***Wow. I had no idea! Man, I am gladder than ever that I don't read "Ultimate."

-- Jason

Jason Powell:
'As my techno-savvy friend likes to say when
searching the net, "Found it in seconds, man.
Seconds!"'

***Of course, Kathleen David already replied to
the question days ago...

Kath's post was "Yep Maddrox did start as a villian but very briefly. In the Ultimate Marvel universe, Madrox is a member of the Brotherhood of Mutants."

So I don't see that my specifying which issue and linking to a synopsis fails to provide significantly more info.

Finally saw it. I had to threaten kids with punishments that would make their mothers weep to keep them from sharing info on the movie.

A few observations:

(ACK! I wrote all this stuff and then went back and read everyone's comments to see if there was anything to add and saw Peter's no spoiler rule...so now I need to make some changes...)

1- Obviously Halle Berry's agent told them to beef up her role or she'd walk. I would have prefered they answered with a variation on the old "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out." Maybe it's because I liked the comic's Storm so much and Halle's version so little. This is no African Goddess.
And if you had Storm's powers and someone was kicking your ass wouldn't you just surround yourself with lightning and let her get electrocuted when she tried to hit you, as opposed to spinning around like a top? Well, I would.

2- Also, if I were Magneto and were faced with the "problem" of getting people to an island, I don't think I'd go through the trouble of lifting a bridge when they could have all crowded into a trolly or sat on pizza pans or what the hell, sat in bumper cars for all I care, the point is, the whole bridge thing was just Eric showing off. But that's our Magneto.

3- What exactly was Jean's purpose in the final battle? Stand there and look smoking hot? Mission accomplished, but still.

5- You know how I know that Hugh Jackman is a Better Man Than Me? In the scene where he is (deleted) I'm pretty sure I saw a BEE crawling over his shirt. He doesn't give it a moment's notice, whereas I would be shrieking to the nearest crewmember "Get it off! Get It OFF!" much to the merriment and derisive laughter of the key grips and best boys.

6- Cyclops was ill used. Ditto Colossus. Kitty was a welcome addition.

7- For a very brief moment I thought that one character looked exactly like Monica Lewinski. Was it just me?

8- Framke was smoking hot. I may have mentioned this.

9- Though would it have killed them to show the Phoenix Force behind her just once? Or did I blink and miss it?

10- The post credits ending was good and I didn't see it coming, though I really should have.

11- Some have been upset that Juggernaut was just a big dumb guy who run's through walls. I've always thought of him as a big dumb guy who runs through walls. In that sense, he was spot on. Magneto gives him one order--keep Logan out of Jean's house. So what does he do the first chance he gets? Throws Logan into the house. What a big dumb guy!

12- Kelsey Grammar-- Acting Gold. Seriously, this guy will go down as one of the greats.

13- Angel was just there. The shot of him spreading his wings was cool but once they had to move and flap...well, that almost never looks good. And it didn't. Winged guys only look good when they are standing around; once they start flying you have to giggle.

14- Like the Juggernaut vs Kitty bit--reminded me of that great Jonathan Glazer ad for Levi jeans where a guy and gal race through walls like two kryptonians. On the other hand, the Iceman vs Pyro fight didn't live up to expectations.

15- I really wish Nightcrawler had been in the movie.

Overall--liked it for what it is. The Phoenix Saga is one of my cherished comics memories and it happened when I was at the pinnacle of my love for comics. Because of that I don't mind as much as some do that this version was just a brief taste of the comics saga. Nothing could equal the comics story so the fact that they just gave us an abreviated version is ok by me.

PAD's right about the script needing another dialogue pass, though he modestly leaves out the person perhaps best suited to do it. When Xavier said something to the effect of "You must control your power or your power will control you" I had a flashback to MYSTERY MEN's Sphinx.

Oh and it occured to me that while the President in X2 was obviously meant to be Bush, didn't the new guy sort of resemble McCain? Huh? Ya think?

Bill Mulligan noted:

"it occured to me that while the President in X2 was obviously meant to be Bush, didn't the new guy sort of resemble McCain? Huh? Ya think?"

Hm... could be. I really do have to see the pic again to absorb and process several things about it. I think I can safely say this president didn't bear too much resemblence to Hillary ;). (Though... Wes Clark at all?)

Bill also wrote:

"Cyclops was ill used. Ditto Colossus."

Yeah, while Peter's presence was increased from X2, still not enough. And would it have killed 'em to give him a Russian accent? ...What? Storm? Rogue? Um... well... Nightcrawler's worked! Yeah! If Alan Cummings pulled it off, maybe the actor-portraying-Colossus-whose-name-I-can't-recall-right-now could, too... maybe? (He does have a pretty good combination of youth and size for portraying Peter, anyway.)

Seriously, speaking of Peter, there's one thing I liked which Colossus does which I forgot to mention in my reaction post above. It doesn't seem to have been mentioned yet, so I don't know if I'll get real specific about it - though the first time it happens is during the first fifteen or so minutes of the movie, among several other cool/fanboy moments. Now, the wind-up was a bit of a surprise; but still, it was very cool to see that little classic bit of X-Men repitoire thrown in there. (I'd be surprised if I'm the only one who liked it; the amount of people who wrote in and reported being brought almost to tears [happy tears] the first time it happened in Astonishing X-Men was not small...)

there's one thing I liked which Colossus does which I forgot to mention in my reaction post above. It doesn't seem to have been mentioned yet, so I don't know if I'll get real specific about it - though the first time it happens is during the first fifteen or so minutes of the movie, among several other cool/fanboy moments.

Oh yeah, right there with ya pal. Good moment. That whole opening had a few "Holy Shiite!" moments for me.

"So I don't see that my specifying which issue and linking to a synopsis fails to provide significantly more info."

Sorry, dude. Must've been in an overly smartass mood. My bad.

Well, after avoiding this thread for days, I can finally join the fun.

Like most adaptations, there's the purist in me wanting to get out. Making Logan instead of Scott front-and-center of the action and decision-making just seems wrong.

Besides the purist in me, though, this was well-done overall. Exactly what I expect from summer blockbusters: a little too much action and too little plot to be totally satisfying, but good for the "popcorn" aspect.

The one scene I really thought should have been altered was the argument about the cure. Rogue coming in and being excited all but ends the scene. It should have been the beginning. Ororo is right to point out that there's nothing wrong with being a mutant, but in Rogue's case, there are barriers she just can't get past. That's a discussion worth having. Instead, though, we're left with a scene that just gets cut short. With this being a 1:45 movie, they could have extended it a bit. Maybe they thought it was obvious and heavy-handed to do it, but this movie was both of those things throughout.

A couple of nice touches: where Magneto brings Pyro down a notch about his comments on Xavier, plus the final scene before the credits with the missing person.

I won't comment on the last scene post-credits except to say "why didn't I see THAT coming?"

From Luigi Novi's post of 6/1/06, 12:08am:

Red XIV: He survived because he's the Juggernaut, bitch. :P Even without the magical origin from the comics, he's still unstoppable

Luigi Novi: Has it ever been established that being phased would not kill him?

Luigi, I don't think it has because the Marvel Universe Juggernaut (as opposed to the X-Men movie version) has the Cytorrak energy which "makes him impervious to all injury up to and including molecular destruction. He does not need food, water, or air, being sustained by mystical energies alone." (Preceding information comes from the first Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe series, issue #5, cover-dated 5/83. The OHOTMU Deluxe Edition, issue #6, adds a notation how Juggernaut was beaten by Nimrod, but Juggernaut's mystical force field was apparently not working at the time.) Now, if he's unable to be affected by molecular destruction and if he doesn't need air, I don't think that Kitty should be able to phase through him.

Eh - this really didn't do it for me. Kelsey Grammar was spot on as Hank McCoy, and there were a couple other good moments for me, but on the whole I thought it was pretty flat. Too much stuff, and not enough tying it together. And poor Cyclops - he could've used a little more love in the past two films.

I dunno... I didn't really dig the flick. I thought for as much that they did to one bird, they took away from her more. I saw that tag coming miles away (what else would the point of that previous scene be?) and on the whole thought they used way too many characters to do anything real with any of them. I'm dissapointed that "The X-Men" turned out to be "The Wolverine and Storm Wild Pals Extravaganza". There's alot of good set-up in the movie, but pay offs are totally lacking. The thing that really bothers me is how little they did with the whole "Cure" debate. I don't think there was really any debate on either side, just everyone who's a bad guy went one way, and all the people who're good guys went the other. The X-men kinda looked to me like scabs crossing a picket line. On the whole, I thought they just turned it from a potentially interesting story into an excuse for excessive special effects.

Just saw it yesterday (yeah, I've been busy). Overall, I liked it, although there were parts that made my inner fanboy cringe (minor spilers follow):

-Calisto friends with Arclight?!?

-Calisto doesn't have an eyepatch?!?

-Calisto (I'm sensing a theme here) has superspeed, and Caliban's mutant detection abiltiies?!? Granted, she has heightened agility, but not to the extent in the comic.

-Quill?!? WTF? I mean come on! Why not just use Caliban as a throw-away lackey-mutant, instead of giving Calisto two powers?

-Still no Gambit! I'm not even that crazy about the character myself, but he deserves screen time more than some of the guys used. Did I mention Quill?

-Don't even get me started on Psylocke.

If it were up to me, there would be an X4 (BIG SPOILERS FOLLOW!!!). Start with Cyclops turning out not to have been killed by Phoenix, just badly beaten up. Have him pissed off that Wolverine and the X-Men killed Jean, and be seduced by Emma into becoming the White King (opposite Shaw and Selene natch). One by one, they take out the X-Men until only Wolverine is left, and you know the rest. Any similarities to the first part of the Dark Phoenix Saga are purely intentional. However, things are not up to me, no matter how much I wish they were. :-)

Also, in the last scene (after the credits), they totally setup Xavier to return as a major villain. Onslaught anyone?

Correction, that was Kid Omega, not Quill in the movie. The fact that Kid Omega both looked like and had the same powers of Quill is very confusing.

Luigi Novi: "Since when is telekinesis electromagnetic in nature?"

Well, physically speaking, there are only two macroscopic forces: gravity and electromagnetic. Since electromagnetic is by far the more powerful of the two, it is extremely likely that it would be an electromagnetic force, especially at the strength Jean uses in the movie.

Also, when ever Phoenix manifested in the first movie, it upset any electronics around her (as it did in this one as well). That was why she had to get off the X-Jet so they could get it started.

mike weber: "What if Juggernaut and the Blob came up against each other? I mean, Juggy can't be stopped once he gets moving, and Blob can't be moved once he gets set..."

I would guess Juggernaut would knock the Blob over, but with the ground still stuck to his feet. See Blob vs. Strong Guy in X-Factor 107, give or take an issue or two.

I avoided any reporting on this movie for the last few months so I wouldn't have surprises blown for me. And here are a few thoughts after having seen the film:

1 - I just about jumped out of my seat and cheered when Jamie appeared on screen. And when I saw the government going to attack the group of mutants, all I could think of was, "It's Madrox," and was thrilled to be right. That's how cool you've made Jamie Madrox, Peter - he gets probably less than a minute of screen time and he was one of my favorite parts of the movie.

2 - Never saw the deaths coming. I give the film makers credit for shaking things up like that.

3 - I have to thank the lovely young lady working at the theater for letting me know about the tag after the credits. And like most people here, I didn't see it coming although it was set up beautifully earlier in the film and I should have.

4 - Iceman Vs. Pyro. I was hoping for a more elaborate fight, but it was still cool. (An inadvertent pun, I know.)

5 - They couldn't have put Nightcrawler in this for one simple reason - three blue characters would be pushing it.

6 - Fastball Special. Wow.

7 - Final thought. If the main stars don't come back for more movies (unlikely given the success of the series so far), we already have the basis for a great X-Factor film. I know, I know...but I can dream, can't I?

THANK YOU EVERYONE! I really, REALLY thought I was the only one that didn't see the postscript after the credits coming, and I was feeling very dissatisfied with myself.

Talking about the movie with my brother this evening, and we both said the same thing. If the two major storylines had been seperated into their own films, might they have worked better? Not that they didn't work together, but just stomething writer-boys like us think about, and I was wondering what you guys thought.

Bill Mulligan's number 9 (number 9, number 9, number 9...) YOU NAILED IT! THAT was one thing I was really waiting for in the movie. Unfortunately, I can see why the Fuzzy Elf didn't get in, there were just too many characters as it was. Still, I would've liked a smidge more development of Magneto's little band, but again, with that MANY characters, how much more than lip service can you give to them?

Posted by: Peter David at May 31, 2006 07:47 AM

"The X-Men costume that Beast wears is just dorky-looking. It would’ve looked better if he just wore the pants, and went topless"

Much more involved and expensive appliances.

(A) A lot better than his costume in the first issues of the comic.

(B) Let's them get in a funny throwaway gag.

As to Goldfinger being a sequel to Dr No - yah, but remember, From Russias with Love came in between...

Amnd there are films among the other sequelae that make even Star Trek: The Motionless Picture look good...

Just saw the movie yesterday with my sister, who is my partner in crime for anything fantasy related.

I've read reviews of the movie that claimed the characterization and plot were neglected at the the expence of effects, and that currect director was not up to the task.

While watching this movie I thought that this criticism was wrong; that there was an excellent balance of character, plot, effects. Up until the last part. Leaving the movie I felt I enjoyed it but was also disappointed with the way some of the characters were handled:
1) Cyclops. An opportunity to finally let him shine was missed. This is unfair to his character.
2) Rogue. She was doing really well up to the middle of movie and then faded. The coclusion to her strory was also unfair.
3) Storm. It seems that hey wanted to highlight her but then it didn't come out right.

I liked the wat Kitty, Beast (except the part where they discuss the future of the school, it was not his role to be the naysayer), Iceman, and Phoenix (except the end) were handled. I think her indifference in the final battle was appropriate to her character in the movie.

I think Angel was handled well for this movie's purposes, except maybe more detail of his reluctance in his most important scene.

Madrox was really handled well considering the small role he (appropriately) had in this movie.

All in all I enjoyed the movie but felt it could have been better. Comparison to Revenge of the Sith is unfair, I believe.

After I and my sister left the movie, we started rewriting, as we often do if we are disappointed with a movie. We think it would have been better to let Cyclops do most of the things done by Wolverine in the movie, ths allowing him to be explored as a character. Perhaps by allowing Wolverine to join him in some of these endevors, their relationship as rivals/buddies could have been explored. Friction between him and Storm with regard to the fates of Phoenix and Xavier could have also helped highlight her.

The friction between Strom and Callisto should have been further developed. Perhaps as a lead for a future movie (maybe Calisto would have lost an eye?).

I think the solution to the Phoenix problem was inappropriate considering the message of the movie. I felt Rogue could have offered a better solution, which would have also given a better conclusion to her character in the context of the movie. She would have learned the value of her powers, sacrificed her relationship with Iceman for the greater good, perhaps gained some unknown powers(and red hair?). Considering Phoenix's powers, interaction between her and Rogue could have had random results, and offered an intersting movie alternative to her origin story.

A non related thing: the theater I went to also had the Da Vinci Code. On the way out missionaries handed pamphlets warning not to believe in the story of the movie. Considering where I live (Jerusalem, Israel) I thought it was funny.

It occurs to me that if they had followed PAD's advice and let Joss Whedon take a crack at a final polish, he might have noticed that a major scene had a very very close resemblance to a something he had previously done. Think yellow crayon.

Cyclops couldn't have been given a larger role in the movie due to the actor's limited time available for filming X3. They might have pushed it back for him (and Singer), but they didn't.

Also, I don't believe Cyclops is really dead. We didn't see it on camera afterall. For all we know, Jean might have just TK blasted him away from the lake.

(POSSIBLE SPOILER as to how a scene resembles another scene, if you're familiar with Buffy the Vampire Slayer)

Looks like it's my turn to say "right there with you, pal," Bill. The scene in question in The Last Stand also reminded me of the BtVS scene you mention, and in fact I thought that the X-Men scene might turn out the same way as "yellow crayon" did. (Well, not with an actual "yellow crayon"; that would be weird.)

Though, Andrew did refer to "Dark Phoenix" near the end of Buffy season six, tacitly acknowledging an influence, or at least ressemblence, so maybe here we have some reciprocal influencing or something. (Not sure that sentence makes any sense... Ah well. I'll blame it on Monday.)

Cyclops couldn't have been given a larger role in the movie due to the actor's limited time available for filming X3.

Which goes hand in hand with the fact that FOX more or less force the character/actor out of this movie bsaed on the forced schedule for the movie to get it out before Superman Returns.

FOX's antics really didn't help this movie.

FOX's antics really didn't help this movie.

No, they sure didn't. Imagine how great this movie would have been with a little more time put into it. But Fox was bound and determined to beat SUPERMAN RETURNS to the theaters. If anything will kill Hollywood it isn't piracy, it's the fact that it's become routine to begin making 100 million dollar movies without final scripts, with the release date being considered far more important than any questions of quality. Dolts.

Unfortunately, it's things like that that point out just how movie making is a business. It's a damn shame when creative types are pushed into producing something in a limited timeframe by the accountants. Something I can relate to pretty closely, actually. We needed aerial footage of the track where I work, so the two owners got a camera and hired themselves a helicopter. Unfortunately, no one onboard KNEW HOW TO SHOOT. So, the footage that came back was pretty mediocre to put it as gently as possible. No one in the actual TV department(you know, those of us that DO know how to shoot) knew anything about it until 3 days after it happened. So we had to try to turn this, er, film into a worthwhile presentation all the while saying to each other, WHY? WHY? FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, WHY?

Still think Last Stand was a damn good movie, though.

yeah I've got to agree that a final script would have been good.They might have had more dialogue.but as well I'm sorry to say it, but I think cyclops is dead,but don't get me wrong, he's only dead for now.Here's why (MAJOR SPOILERS)if prof can have sombodies body who never had conciousness then why can't jean(without pheonix)have a body as such,I mean there must be other people who were never concious.If she does come back she could have her powers still and still have control of them, this way she could get her body back and re-particalize scott and prof.Also that was a METAL chess piece at the end so maybe after the cure gets out of your system you get yor powers back, because leeche's only works if he's near you. Also I still want nightcrawler,and I think they have so many blue characters, is because marvel got cheap and wouldn't buy any more colored pencils so they just re-used blue twice LOL.

Can someone email me what happened in/after credits. I missed it as the theater always closes the curtains during credits and I'm not paying again just to see that.

linux.scott@gmail.com

BAD BAD movie. I can't belive PAD liked this crap. They ruined what the other two movies achieved. A total waste of money. I wished I had never seen it.