PeterDavid.net

Personally, I loved it and I am not a big fan of wrestling.

I was wondering though... did you know that there was a Mexican wrestler carrying the name 'El Dorado' in the nineties? I've tried to hunt for a picture, but unfortunately it seems he changed his mask.

Also, I can't wait for the next issue. I can't imagine how that came to happen.

I think the twist ending is due to Superboy Prime slamming against the walls.

Then again, I guess everyone else has already come back at Marvel, there really was no other choice.

Enjoyed the discussion of magic v science...would have liked a reference to Clarke. Also enjoyed Spidey's question which Iron Man refused to answer. la la la la la.

of course, there is nothing wrong with treating religion on equal footing as science, but i don't think the faithful are ready for religion being examined by the scientific method. And that's the answer to Spidey's question. The creation theory could be correct, but religion doesn't ask us to study the theory scientifically, but to accept it on faith. Intelligent Design is an acceptable philosophical theory, or a metaphysical theory, but not a scientific theory. But that's hard to put succinctly in comic form, so la la la la la.

I'm interested in seeing how you pull off the wherefore behind the last page reveal. I suspect it has something to do with the totem magic. We already knew that all the physical damage to Peter's body over the years had been healed...who says what the totem magic might do to try to heal the emotional damage? It's just a theory, and I'm willing to scientifically prove the theory right or wrong by buying the upcoming issues.

Also enjoyed Spidey's question which Iron Man refused to answer.

I agree, that was great. PAD, your writing never fails to evoker humor, which is great.

It's also great that you're getting to write a few issues with your own ideas before Marvel likely drags the series into another massive crossover. :)

Actually, I thought the intelligent design stuff was pretty interesting, considering that we know for a fact that intelligent design is how life came about in the Marvel universe. You know, the space aliens showing up and creating the three branches of man - homo sapiens, Eternals, and Deviants. I'd have to dig out my copies of the "Marvel Saga," but if my memory serves, that's how it happened.

So, in the Marvel Universe, intelligent design is how life was created. Scientists wouldn't be talking about Darwinian Evolution. They'd accept Intelligent Design as the truth and be studying to learn more about humanity's alien progenitors.

I thought it would be an interesting storyline to have Reed Richards champion an Intelligent Design and have him attacked by the evolutionary religionists.

At any rate, Spidey's evolution vs. intelligent design comments may have been social commentary on our universe, but it didn't make much sense to me in light of how we know life began in Marveldom. Maybe Tony's response should have been something along the lines of, "Pete, I'm trying to be open minded here, but that evolution stuff is just plain silly."

We the readers may know (at least those who read those books) but do the characters know?

We (here in the 'real world') don't have access to the comic books that are being written about us in another universe.

John, who would want to read about our lives? No offense intended to any of you who have a life worthy of comic adaptation.

Guess I'll break with what everyone else is saying about the book so far.

Thus far I've found FNSM to be an extremely weak book. The stories have been nonsensical and poorly written / edited. It's so disappointing, because as a fan of your work, I know you can do better than this.

The ending... well, I hate to say it, but unless you pull off something really surprising with this, I'm done with the book. Was this thing your idea or were you told to do it?

I picked up this comic on a whim. I'm not really a Spider-man fan but I've been enjoying watching the changes in Peter's live through New Avengers. I really enjoyed this comic. It was funny and exciting and it made me feel warm and gooey inside.

But I hated the ending.

"No offense intended to any of you who have a life worthy of comic adaptation."

Hey, I've had bits in my life which were more interesting than some of the stuff put out by some of the independents.

Loved the entire issue, including the ending. Without exaggeration - one of my all time favourite Spidey comics! Great mix of humour, action and one helluva cliffhanger!

AJ

Big fan of your work, but...

I am against the musical chairs of bringing people back from the dead in comics. No exception. If I had my way, no one would ever come back. However, I don't have my way, and I've made peace with the current system of dead=sitting on the sidelines for a little bit. In a business, I realize that is how it has to be...

That said, some people should never be brought back. I used to think Jason Todd and Bucky were in that group, but so far, I like what is going on with Bucky. However, I think Uncle Ben is so central to the origin of Spidey, you cannot bring Ben back without doing damage to the essence of Spider-man. Ben is the reminder of why great power brings great responsibility. You bring Ben back, you lose that.

*However,* as I said, I am a big fan of your work, and I give you enough credit to follow you anywhere you'd like to lead. You are a great teller of stories, and I'll go just about anywhere to hear them - up to bringing Ben back. ;-) Not sure if that is your plan, but my spidey sense is tingling....

Yea for a new Hobgoblin! We need a new Hobgoblin. I love this new development!!!

I enjoyed the issue very much. Miss Ringo's art though.
I did not have the ending spoiled for me so it was an interesting surprize. I'm hoping that he really isn't alive and it's part of a plot to be revealed. I guess I feel it would wipe away the reason for Spider-Man to exist. Sort of make 40 plus years meaningless.
But I'm willing to give you a shot.

Issue was great, but the new costume is bad. It looks like he's wearing spats. But I guess it's faster to draw than the red and blue, but not as fast as the black. Plus there's the action figure market to consider.

I'm all thumbs up with the ending - seems like a set-up for a fun story. That's right, keyword: FUN. Funs is what allowed Marvel Team-Up to turn Aunt May into the Golden Oldie and fun is what they had in mind when Pete revved around in the Spider-Mobile.

John, who would want to read about our lives? No offense intended to any of you who have a life worthy of comic adaptation.

Well, in our universe, we read comic books about super heroes, and they're exciting because we don't have real super heroes whose exploits we can follow.

In a universe WITH super heroes, might they then read comics about regular people, since they're probably so bored with the real super heroes that comics about them just don't sell?

-Rex Hondo-

Rex--

In a world WITH super heroes, the popular comics are about pirates.

Everyone knows that. :)

I read Dilbert fairly often. It described my life pretty well back when I used to work in a corporate IT department. It's quite popular even. Humor can be found anywhere. Even in the instructions for a box of toothpicks.

Hmmm. I trust Peter to know that he is having fun with us regarding the last page.

As for the comic itself, when will Marvel give Aunt May her own title? Those pages when she was on a date with Jarvis were great.

Sorry, PAD, I didn't really like this one. I have enjoyed all your FNSM so far but this one...I had some trouble understanding what was going on between the wrestler and El Dorado (did I get that name right?) Which would have been ok for the middle of a story but not for the conclusion. I guess I would have liked some more backstory.

I did like your discussion of magic, though. And I really enjoyed Spider-Man using his knowledge of science.

Seems to be a useful word has been omitted here.

Ben Parker is reportedly "back"-- but you haven't said "alive." As Boston Brand, Jim Corrigan and Cris Allen would point out, there is a difference.

Seems to me he's already been pulled back twice -- once in the birthday isue, and once in the House of M world. If you can suspend disbelief in each of those, it isn't a reach to consider that the combination of the two might have had an effect.

I saw FNSM #7. I can imagine Ben's internal monologue as being "Great. I find May, who I'm not sure if I should approach for help in the first place, and she's on a date with someone alive."

What I'd really love to see is Ben Parker telling Peter "For the first time in your life you see a man with a gun run by; of course you freeze, you're still a normal person. A normal, untrained, inexperienced person. You put on a swagger right after, because you're a teenager and you want to feel important, and then you turned it all around into guilt. By the way, a message from Gwen, her father, Harry Osborn and Jean DeWolff -- knock it off. None of them blame you either."

In a world WITH super heroes, the popular comics are about pirates.

Everyone knows that. :)

Ninja monkey robot pirates!!!!

What I'd really love to see is Ben Parker telling Peter "For the first time in your life you see a man with a gun run by; of course you freeze, you're still a normal person. A normal, untrained, inexperienced person. You put on a swagger right after, because you're a teenager and you want to feel important, and then you turned it all around into guilt. By the way, a message from Gwen, her father, Harry Osborn and Jean DeWolff -- knock it off. None of them blame you either."

I think I would pay extra for that issue!

Personally, I liked the issue. I think there have been better, and (especially about ten years back) there have been a heck of a lot worse. I am starting to wonder when Peter's going to have to find a nice superhero psychiatrist, and have a nice long chat about why he's afraid of his more powerful abilities...

>John, who would want to read about our lives? No offense intended to any of you who have a life worthy of comic adaptation.

True, but how often do we read stories starring the guy living down the hall from Lois & Clark? A nobody is a nobody no matter what reality. Of course for all we know PAD could be the star of a book about an adman turned writer!

This brings up another concept. Most of the time, when ghosts appear in comic books, it's because they died with important issues unresolved from their lives. Which might be the way they died, or because they were murdered, or something like that.

Why wouldn't Dracula or other vampires - who, despite Anne Rice and other apologists, are serial killers - be haunted by the ghosts of their victims? For that matter, why wouldn't the victims of Freddy Krueger eventually find a way to thwart or destroy him...assuming that those teenagers had souls to begin with, which the movies seem to deny? (And yes, I'm thinking of the fate of Asia Minor in one of the last issues of "Fallen Angel" in its DC run.)

Oh, as regards the "intelligent design" thing in here:

Even if Tony Stark were privy to the screwing-around that the Celestials did with the human genome, that wouldn't prove ID - which, after all, calls for all life to have been created by a Designer. The Celestials merely interfered with a process already ongoing - they created nothing, they only changed the outcome of evolution. Something would have evolved on Earth-616 in any case (in fact, IIRC, humanoid life had already reached somewhere around Homo erectus when the Celestials started splicing and dicing), and based on the number of intelligent races in their galaxy alone, it seems likely that the life in question would have been intelligent. They might or might not have been susceptible to acquiring superpowers, though...

I've loved FNSM so far, and I can't wait to see what you guys have in store for us with that ending!! Keep up the great work!

I don't have a problem with it because I don't think he's really back. Granted, with Bucky back and Jason Todd back, it's likely only a matter of time before Barry and Ben are back, thus finally making death meaningless in comics (no matter how "cool" it may be to kill characters currently). Still, I have enough respect for Peter David to know that Uncle Ben isn't returning. He may be dropping by as a ghost or a memory,or he may be a hallucination by Mysterio, but I have more respect for Peter than to think he'd be part of the problem.

1
PAD, I have to say this two parter wasn't to my tastes. The whole Mexican wrestler thing just left me rather cold. I'd rather we dealt more with Spidey's supporting cast, his classic villains (or even some newer ones that aren't as boring).
I did like the discussion of religion vs. science though and *loved* the sequence with Peter and Iron Man (on the whole, I love how Spiderman is more integrated in the MU as a result of being an Avenger; it opens up a wealth of character possibilities and interactions that weren't there previously since he was such an outsider).
As for Uncle Ben...I know you're not bringing him back to life. His death is such a defining moment in Peter's life and continues to weigh on his conscience. To bring him back would lessen that weight, and sadly that's part of the Parker Luck that needs to be retained (OTOH, I don't feel bringing Bucky or Jason Todd back is blasphemy as some others think; I don't see that their deaths defined Captain America or Batman; sure it sent them down certain character arcs that were important, but the way I define a pivotal "can't bring 'em back from the dead" death is by determining how much of an effect on the hero the dead guy had. You could remove Bucky and Jason Todd from Cap and Bats' history and their basic characterization would stay the same. To remove Uncle Ben from Peter's history removes the single defining moment of Peter's life. That would be a massive change to his characterization).

Tony (if anything it's May's guilt at trying to date anyone manifesting itself as visions of Ben; although I think we've seen this before)

Re: Uncle Ben

If I had to speculate, I'd think this is related to House of M (seeing as how Uncle Ben was alive there), and this is some sort of bleedover or whatnot.

Or, Aunt May is just plain starting to lose it.

Either way, this is PAD writing it, so it's likely to be something none of us completely expects. :)

There was a real old school feel to this issue. If it was the late 70s or early 80s, I would expect the wrestler to come back and want to be Spidey's sidekick later on. It is great that the issue brought the funny, especially with the science vs. magic talk. It reminded me of Knight Life actually.

The ending of the issue was wonderful. I honestly do not see how people are upset about it. Do they really think that Ben Parker is going to be around for the rest of your run? It is an awesome cliffhanger, and with he future Hobgoblin coming next month, I cannot wait.

To remove Uncle Ben from Peter's history removes the single defining moment of Peter's life. That would be a massive change to his characterization

Does Ben returning to life equate to removing his death from Peter's History?

If somehow Peter's memory were wiped, and he had no recollection of Uncle Ben dying, then I would agree...it would be a massive change to his characterization. But if he remembers how he felt when he thought Ben was dead. If he remembers what Uncle Ben's 'supposed' death taught him about responsibility. How does Ben's return change that?

How could Uncle Ben's return to life completely change the events that defined Peter's life up to that point? They wouldn't. They would only change the future. I don't see Peter saying, "oh, wait, I wasn't responsible for my uncle's death, so therefore, great power doesn't mean great responsibility, and therefore I can forget about all these responsibilities." That makes no sense.

Instead, I see a lot of hugging and crying and celebrating, and Peter going on pretty much as before.

The real character change would be Aunt May. She'd no longer be a widow.

1 I am waiting to see where Peter goes with the ending,I hope he is not back because his death is what defined Spider Man. What I hope it is, is a medical condition that has started to affect May, she hasn't been in the hospital for a long time now and I think Peter is trying to get back to that type of storytelling where May is sick. Though I hope it is not a long drawn out story arc. I like her being sick once in a while because she is older and old people do start to get these medical conditions.

A few thoughts from someone who does believe in Creation / Intelligent Design:

I loved it.

The whole interchange was great. And made sense in both worlds. In fact, that one line made me glad I bought the issue! I was still laughing about it two days later.

The second best line was about being able to grow spines in the hospital. Nice.

I do feel a little cheated, though, on two levels.

First, the whole science/magic issue. Why is Peter so adamant that magic could not be involved? In the Marvel Universe, magic clearly exists. This is NOT the real world. So for Peter to be so unwilling to consider it is not completely logical.

I was not a huge fan of JMS changing the story, but neither is it that big of a deal to me. In fact, in some ways, it is an improvement. El Dorado (or whatever his name was) is right. Peter's spider sense sounds far more logical than scientific. So in the comic book world, IF handled correctly, this could improve and build on the story.

So why would Peter be resistant? Is he magicphobic? Perhaps. But as a scientist who has dealt often with magic and who lives in a world where magic clearly exists, it seems out of character unless he is being shown to have some personal issue with magic.

Second issue: The change in the other wrestler (forgot his name already!). It made sense, but I was looking for something more. He really did grow a spine too quickly and with no justification. I suspected he would, but felt it was too easy.

RE: the ending -- I am along for the ride. I almost saw it coming because of the Jarvis/May romance. It does not matter if it is real or not, it serves its purpose of raising the classic question of dealing with the loss of a spouse and trying to move on in life. I do think it is a valid road to explore, and in the Marvel / comic book universe, one that makes sense. Bottom line, PAD has me hooked.

In spite of the fact that I have no money right now for comics, PAD has me hooked on two now (X-Factor and FNS). I will have to keep looking for change because I have to keep up with this story.

Iowa Jim

Two other thoughts:

I disagree with whoever said Tony would support ID. While on one level the Marvel Universe came about by some outside force, it was still random and still used evolution. I mean come on, they even have someone called the High Evolutionary!

Intelligent Design (in the real world) is actually not in complete conflict with all aspects of evolution. If you read someone like Behe, it is clear that he believes some evolutionary changes have occurred. But that aside, ID is meant to be scientifically testable, not a statement of faith (which does make it different from biblical creationism). Whether you agree with its validity or not, that is the claim. Which is why many biblical creationists (particularly those who believe in a literal 7 day creation -- which is based on faith in a biblicaly revealed truth) reject ID. The reality is, ID is not well respected by the hardcore adherents of either side.

[Not that it matters, but I am in the minority who believe in a literal 7 day creation while appreciating the work in the ID movement.]

Iowa Jim

Correction: I meant to say

Peter's spider sense sounds far more MAGICAL than scientific.

Iowa Jim

Wiki on ID

Despite common complaints against wiki, on controversial topics, it tends to find a neutral ground.

I am looking forward to the story where Jonah sues the pants off Peter.

I mean, am I misremembering something, or did Peter not claim a several million dollar reward for "proving" to Jonah that John was Spider-Man back in Mark Millar's Marvel Knights Spider-man run?

I hope this will be addressed. I mean, even if it's just three pages of She-Hulk explaining to Jonah why he doesn't really want to sue (I can think of a few good ideas, like that this would expose the world to the idea that John is Spider-Man, and that it's hard to definitively prove he's not without the help of Peter Parker, or someone else who knows the truth).

(On the other hand, there are facts like Spider-Man has been seen fighting with John as Super-Astronaut-Dude (AMAZING v. 1 # 42) and as Man-Wolf. Of course, Jonah has even seen that, but it didn't stop him from crediting the idea in the first place).

In any case, Jonah very much seems like the kind of guy who, given this sort of impetus, would go after Peter with everything he had. And like someone who would require an explanation of why that wouldn't include a lawsuit for fraudulently claiming that reward.

1While not wishing to turn this thread into a religious/scientific debate, I have a sincere question to those who believe in a transcendental God who micromanages the universe/multiverse/omniverse - what is his/her/its motivation (and please don't tell me it is because he/her/it loves us. Bear with me on this: You have a glass of water filled with bacteria. You have the power of life or death over them. You can feed them sugars or nuke them in the microwave. You discover that the bacteria worship you because of this. Would you really care? Would you observe them endlessly and decide the outcomes of bacterial football games? Would you not be bored to death within minutes?

Now expand the glass of water to the size of the known (to date - more to come) universe (1.9 × 10 to the 33rd power cubic light years), add in parallel universes of comparable dimensions (if any) in one direction, shrink the bacteria to well below the size of a quark, and you would have perhaps an inkling of the insurmountable gap between the aforementioned transcendental Creator and us. How boring is his/her/its life if our daily activities is the most interesting thing going on in it?

And for those who believe they have a duty to make sure their Creator is respected: If he/she/it is so impotent that he/she/it can't do their own smiting to earn our respect, I suggest that you find some other god with bigger grapefruits, as Vince McMahon would say. There are certainly enough gods around. (Personal pet peeve - the First Commandment - the Judeaic/Christian God acknowledges the existance of other gods - thou shalt have no other gods before me - meaning there are other deities but I am the Big Cheese. Well, what is any self-respecting god going to say - Yeah, I'm tough but Odin, boy he could whip my ass"?

End of rant. Please do not burn my house down.

Peace out - The Rev

Wait... people have a problem with the Autumn Sailor prowling around the book?

The John Jameson is Spider-Man story didn't make any sense to me..especialy as it wasn't mentioned in the book John shows up in , She-Hulk...oh, Milar wrote it...of course it doesn't make sense.

It would have been nice for Iron Man and Spider-Man to pass by Doctor Stranges Mansion while they were discussing magic.

Re: Uncle Ben:

It's fun to talk about, but when dissing what PAD's intent for the storyline is, it might be best to remember the words of Sherlock Holmes: "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

In other words, let's keep readin'. We don't know what's goin' on...yet. PAD does. Let's see what story he's got to tell us.

I know its early, but have they issued a date for the trade to come out?

It's fun to talk about, but when dissing what PAD's intent for the storyline is, it might be best to remember the words of Sherlock Holmes: "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes would never last a minute on the Internet.

Made my trip to the store today, and decided to treat myself and read FNS-M first: loved this issue. It really feels like you're on a roll, PAD, in both plot and dialogue.

The Spidey/Iron Man talk was great (I like "quandry mechanics", too); and Peter's on-going magic/science debate was also very good. You're actually making interesting stuff out of these changes to Spider-Man (about which I notice Spidey himself said "I know it sounds idiotic"...). The villain actually (apparently) served to shed some light (ouch; pun honestly unintended) on Peter's magical status; and Peter using his scientific knowledge to defeat the villian - very nice.

As for the future - I, also, trust that the Uncle Ben bit will turn out fine; and though I would prefer to see the original Hobgoblin return, rather than this future one people seem to have read somewhere will be showing up, guess I'll just have to settle for the alternate-universe Kingsley who's just shown up in Spider-Girl.

Anyway - great issue, PAD!

A while back, they let Andrew Vaachs write Batman.

Vaachs either didn't understand what makes the Batman origin story so strong or didn't care. He proceeded to twist it out of shape, making the killing of Bruce Wayne's parents not a random tragedy that could have happened to anyone who walked down that alley that night, but rather a contract killing at the orders of an international cabal of wealthy pederasts.

I hope Peter's plans for the apparent return of Ben Parker don't rip out an important part of the Spider-Man origin like that.

My sense, PAD, is that you were "inspired" to write this story by the Mexican wrestler ep. of "Angel." Unfortunately, during an otherwise incredibly strong season, the Mexican wrestler ep. of "Angel" was pretty weak, as was this two-partner. As for the ending, I'm not convinced for a second that Uncle Ben is really back from the dead. However, it seems obvious to me who this mysterious figure REALLY is--Jim Wilson!

Thankfull it's PAD writing this and not JMS, otherwise Ben WOULD be back. He would have disappeared after he paid for what looked like the crook to shoot him for an insurance fraud to pay off gambling money......*sigh* poor Gwen, JMS better put the toys back in the condition he found them in.

I seem to recall Paul Jenkins doing something along similar lines to what's been proposed for Ben Parker's dialogue in this thread not so long ago. Still, it would be worth a certain amount of money to know whether or not earlier visitations included such an argument as that.

One thing I am sure of: There are far worse things to read about than Ben Parker doing a "Bob Fraser" stunt on his nephew every so often. PAD manages to avoid them, by and large.

Looking forward to whatever's next!

Preview of FNSM #8,..not quite a spoiler, as the second page sets up a "What If" where Ben survives and May doesn't.

If that's the Ben who shows up, my compliments to PAD. First, this is a take that hasn't been done before. Second, it sets up dramatic uncertainty: will this Ben stay or go back? If he stays, what about him and May?

If this is a spoiler, I apologize. But I wanted to tell PAD that I liked what he was up to, and this seemed to be the best forum for it,

Hey Pad, second time you didn't put up an X-Factor thread for a new release! You hate X-Factor or somethin'!!? BTW, loved it!

To the Rev, those that believe in that aforementioned type God would say that He would be so full of love for His creation, that your comparison of a human being would act doesn't apply.