Well, score one for my agent, who told me two weeks ago that Warners had pulled the "Aquaman" movie option from the folks who'd been developing it because they were planning to do a "Smallville" spin-off featuring the sea king. Kinda sucks to be the actor who is now going to be recast. Perhaps he can form a support group with Stuart Townsend who was tossed after a week of shooting LOTR for Viggo.
Speculation is abounding as to the title since reportedly it's not going to be called "Aquaman." I'm thinking "Miami" isn't happening. They could go with a watery term like "Depths" or "Waves" or "Tides." If they want to go for symbolic, they could go with "The Trident" and have an image of a trident be the running visual motif and potential link to his past. Or they could just call it "Arthur," although that evokes the Dudley Moore film.
Any other thoughts? Serious notions, not the inevitable "Fish Tales" jokes.
PAD
Posted by Peter David at November 16, 2005 07:25 AM | TrackBack | Other blogs commentingWhy not call a spade a spade, and use the character name right off? "Aquaman, King of the Seas!" strikes a pretty good chord with me.
So the character that appeared on Smallville who was called Arthur Curry and had powers very similar to Aquaman won't actually be the one that gets a new show? It'll be a different water-breathing Arthur Curry that never met Clark Kent? Which is OK because this Clark Kent can't possibly become any version of Superman we've ever seen?
How long before the WB has to have their own Infinite Ultimate House of Crisis maxiseries to clean up their continuity? And can I choose who gets killed off? The villain would be, obviously, Pete Ross, maddened beyond belief at how shoddily he was treated by writers who couldn't figure out how to use him. I can see it now: Clark holding the body of Lana Lang (who, for some reason, has Supergirl powers this week) and screaming "Nooooo!" while a reasonably-priced pop single plays.
This could work...
I hear "Baby Fishmouth" as a phrase, is sweeping the nation.
How about Stargate: Atlantis? Arthur could investigate this mysterious circular object that, when turned on, can transport him to new worlds. From there, he can learn more about his origins and the origins of his people.
What? Is that idea taken already?
Well,
'the Sea King' comes to mind. I wouldn't rule out an abstract one-word title....
Wasn't there already a show called "The Man From Atlantis"?
Didn't last long, as I recall...
I'm thinking something with the word "currents" in it.
I think WB will stay away from using "Atlantis" in the tile in order to avoid any confusion with the Stargate spinoff series.
Given that is' the WB, maybe "Arthur's Creek."
Considering there's "Smallville" and the upcoming Superman movie, why would they pull the option on an Aquaman film?
It seems like they might as well take their chances with both to see what becomes successful.
(deep, authoritative TV voice) The WB! presents: Harpoonhand!
On Smallville Arthur insisted on being called "A.C." If they had spun him off instead of starting over, they could have called the show "The A.C."
--your pal, Hoy
Ok...how about he has an underwater hotel..."Inn Too Deep"?
Or, a monster who sells body parts..."Arthur's Creature's Pushin' Hips"?
I'm spent.
I would love to see a story about a boy who is destined to become King, but to be honest the only reason to watch is too see some shirtless blond hunk every week.
If they're really interested in ratings, they'll call it CSI:H2O.
Maybe "The Lighthouse" or something along those lines?
Maybe they'll call it "Aqua" to keep the reference, but not use the actual codename?
Ah, I wanted to say "Waterboy". How about "Young King Arthur"? It's his name, and he eventually becomes king of Atlantis.
Or is that too obvious?
How about, since it's young Aquaman, "Wet Behind the Ears"?
Mike Leuszler
The WB uses it already and maybe itwould work
Fresh Fish
what ya think Mr. David?
I'm going to go against the crowd and offer a couple of "serious notions." I think something with the word "Currents" in it would work (or maybe just that word alone). And for some reason I think "H2O" would be kind of a neat title. (Of course, that may be because I'm suffering from a bad head cold today and am dizzy and kind of out-of-it! Tomorrow I may remember that idea and think, "Never mind, that sucks.")
Hey since Smallville doesn't exactly follow continuity, why not call it Aqualad?
hahahahahahahaha
sigh, that was the best I could come up with right now....so very tired...
JAC
How about "Flow"? Aquaman's love interest could then be a sassy southern waitress who yells "Kiss my sea-grits".
Trace
(what? too old of a reference?)
SEAGUY!!
Oh. Wait. Been used already....
Damn.
If it were me, producer that I am, I would call it From The Depths. Apart from the obvious water reference, it could aklso refer to the emotions involved, wgere they come from, etc.
I'm quite happy they're recasting, actually. The episode itself was pretty decent. In fact, it's about the best thing that "Smallville's" been able to come up with in about two years. But the actor playing Aquaman came off as a creepy combination of Matt Damon and Hitler's ideal Aryan, and I don't think I could follow any show which had that dude in the lead.
As for possible titles, how about "Into the Sea?" It would certainly appeal to all us Cure fans.
the once and future king?
obviously that makes him sound like
a descendant of that other arthur
but whos to say he isnt?
maybe the atlanteans are part of a curse by morgan le fey?
i wouldnt close any door
there are always possibilities
Splash
King Arthur (drat, someone already beat me to that one)
Prince Arthur (since this is Young Aquaman)
Bea Arthur (maybe not)
Peter David's Aquaman
(you'll have to talk with your agent, and get your agent to convince WB to let you write it, but you know, maybe you've already done that...and this is another one of your hypotheticals, such as the one you did about potential FA artists)
Kinda sucks to be the actor who is now going to be recast. Perhaps he can form a support group with Stuart Townsend who was tossed after a week of shooting LOTR for Viggo.
Yeah, but in some ways he's also lucky. Townsend would probably have gone down in history as the worst casting mistake Jackson had ever made. Way too young and pretty-boy-ish to be a proper Aragorn, I say.
As for name ideas ... there's gotta be a good "curry" pun in there, and it would neatly set up the Aquaman/Red Dwarf crossover that's bound to come in some demented parallel universe.
TWL
I think that if they want to go with a title that would allude to a location they could just call it "7 Seas". It's simple, easy to remember and significant to the character.
Now PAD, what I really want to know is whether, given that you have what I consider a stellar past relationship with Aquaman, you'd consider working on the show if asked (they did after all hire Joeph Loeb for Smallville).
Raphy
I's probably unfortunate for the actor, but unless the casting director takes a blow to the head, probably beneficial for us, as the actor who played Arthur in Smallville was physically a good call, but in terms of, you know, any ability to act, just horrible.
Serious and nonserious recommendations (taking into account it's supposed to be set near the Bermuda Triangle, from what I hear, to allow for an equivalent to the meteor-rock stuff in Smallville):
Undertow
Strange Tides (Tidings?)
Strange Waves
Mysterious Depths
(Adjective refering to weirdness or the quality of being strange, paranormal, or mysterious) (Noun related to the ocean, Atlantis, aquatic weapon, or male noble rank)
Of Men And Mantas
Seriously? Peter, you already came up with the best non-Aquaman title for the series..."TIME & TIDE"
I rather like Seven Seas, as suggested above, or Fathoms, if NBC didn't hold onto that trademark once it retitled what's now become Surface. Lighthouse, also per a suggestion above, is not bad either, although I wonder if there'd be trademark issues with that one.
I'd agree that references to Atlantis are right out, and I think references to Arthur are unlikely given the potential for confusion with the Round Table character as opposed to the comics character (although I wouldn't put it past Gough and Millar to play with those parallels in the series as developed).
My recollection is that the old Man From Atlantis TV series actually went about two and a half seasons before Patrick Duffy swam off into the sunset (the writers, unfortunately, left about halfway into the second season). For its time, and before the writing imploded, it was actually pretty good.
Evil thought: based on the back story from the Smallville episode, they could also call the Aquaman series Eddystone Light. (Bonus points for anyone who actually gets this joke....)
it cold be risky not not calling it aquaman
muting its superhero origins might confuse people
what does it say about the popularity of
aquaman that they dont want to use the name?
using smallville
the producers know thats tied to superman
but if they call it alantis its both confusing and misleading
Hey! A lot of good suggestions! Here's some more:
Dances with Fishes
Waves of Nausea
War and Pisces
Giant-Sized Man-Flipper
Ocean’s Eleven-Minus-Ten
You Can Tune a Piano, but You Can’t Tuna Fish
Beached Boy
Starfish Trek
The Man with a Porpoise
Aqua-Dude
Poor Man’s Sub-Mariner
Hope (this Show) Floats
Sleeping with the Fishes
Smallville-by-the-Sea
Deepest Throat
School of Hard Water
What’s that I Smelt?
The Floater
Raiders of the Lost Shark
Fish Whisperer
1 Well..it's WB so maybe his brother will be in the series also so shouldn't it be the GILLmore boys.
If it's a college drama it could be called SCHOOL.
Maybe it will be The Prince of Tides. Pappa can you hear me.
The Adventures Of (A Trademarked Name We Refuse To Use)...When He Was A Boy!
I think the Bermuda Triangle will be playing some part in the show, so maybe something playing off of that. The Triangle? Lost at Sea? Maybe something like Atlantis Chronicles, although it doesn't look like Atlantis has anything to do with it, so maybe The Sea Chronicles or something. Maybe Aquaville?
I'd love to see PAD involved with the series somehow, even if it's just to write one episode.
Sure, if it went to series, I'd love to write for it. But I don't live in LA, so I doubt they'd be interested.
PAD
I think I'd have to go with "Cancelled in Three Weeks" as a title.
Why are you guys even bothering. Nobody is gonna watch this turkey. Seriously. Nobody. You know it too, so don't delude yourselves.
Well, I know they won't put any money into it but how about the recent "Sub Diego" storyline and title?
The amazing thing is that they haven't learned the "Smallville" lesson, which is that not having the superhero be a superhero hobbles the entire series. At this point, "Smallville" is like "House". You watch it once and you've seen the whole series because it repeats itself so much. Even as I type this "Smallville" is having to find awkward ways to fit in powers and such and ignore the logical step to cape and flight.
Michael J Norton
'it cold be risky not not calling it aquaman
muting its superhero origins might confuse people'
-------------------------------------------------
above words by Gary
Risky
to whom? A 30sec trailer would clear up any potential 'mystery/confusion'...
I think PAD's "trident" idea is still the best.
I have zero interest in this project. Unless they plan on continuing to use characters from the DC continuity I see no point to any of this.
How many episodes before someone leaves him in a desert?
adly, the general public's attitude toward AM was pretty much set by Chappelle:
aquaman to fish: hello fish!
fish: hi aquaman!
aquaman: have you guys seen anything suspicious around here?
fish: hi aquaman!
Um, anyone for Piranha Guy?
(Sees the hordes of PeterDavid.net react by charging toward him with bats and tire irons...)
Ow! Ow! Ow! Okay, okay, I'm sorry, I was just joking!!
The amazing thing is that they haven't learned the "Smallville" lesson
Uh-huh. SMALLVILLE, on for five plus seasons, and a cornerstone of their programming, and made household names of many of its featured players.
I think they've learned the lesson quite well. Not sure other people have.
Curse you, Vincent J Murphy, for stealing my joke!
John: Fathom got changed cuz Top Cow (or is it Aspen) has the trademark for that title.
Fishberg, Ohio
Poon
That Atlantis Show
Po Boy Theater
Hello, Mr. Fish and Chips
I'll stop now...
Why not just cut to the chase and call it, "Cancelled in Six Episodes or Less?"
The one episode of "Man From Atlantis" I clearly remember had Kareem Abdul Jabar as some type of alien being powered by--now get this--"invisible water." Even as a small kid I recognized the fact that Kareem might have been a great athlete, but as an actor he made Leif Garret look like Lawrence Goddamn Oliver.
I just love how so many people aren't even going to give it a chance. I mean, the idea of a "Smallville"-esque Aquaman TV series doesn't really excite me, but I'm willing to give it a chance (even at the risk of "deluding" myself). I guess it's just more fun to dismiss the show out of hand even though I know absolutely nothing about it. So let me join in with my own clever title: "Cancelled Before Release Due to Online Fan Apathy."
Though, Luigi, if any show had the title you recommended, I'd have to watch it, just to see Pirahna Guy in action.
JAB
Josh, while I agree that we should give the show a chance--I'll certainly watch the first few episodes unless they schedule it opposite a bunch of shows I already love--it's hard to envision any good coming of this. Smallville works because of the rich mythology they have been able to work with. I doubt they will ahve any such respect for what PAD and others have done on the Aquaman comic. If I had to bet I'd guess that this will be heavy on the soap, light on the myth.
But sure, we'll give it a shot.
If they use "Neptune" in the title, they can market it with "Veronica Mars"
"Atlantisville"!
And I hate to disagree with Peter, but, for me, the title "Trident", evokes memories of: 'four out five dentists' and: "I do, I do!".
Hooper
Speaking of "Man From Atlantis", in the first episode, Mark Harris, still new to the surface world, walked up to a drive-thru speaker box, and was confused when a voice issued from it, asking him for his order. As I recall, he didn't reply (not knowing what to say, presumably), and wandered off.
A few years ago, a friend and I, catching up on what we'd been up to since we'd last seen each other, decided to grab some dinner at McDonalds and talk about stuff. For whatever reason, I was reminded of the Mark Harris/drive-thru encounter, and mentioned that as we went inside.
Later, out in the parking lot, we saw a woman standing in front of the drive-thru speaker, trying to place an order. It was a very amusing coincidence. In her case, she was driving a limosine, which couldn't negotiate the narrow drive-thru driveway So she'd parked it, and had walked up to the speaker. Why she didn't go inside from the start, I've no idea.
As to the new "Aquaman" series, they should call it "Aquaman." Simple, and to the point. But since it makes sense, PAD's understanding that it won't be called that is probably correct.
Rick
How about:
Watered-Down Smallville
Shoalville
Bonfire of the Manatees
Wet Teen Action!
Aquaman: The Pre-Tricorder Years
The Flounder Years
Everybody Loves Aquaman
Deep Six
WET: The True Story of Black Manta
Goddamn Aquaman
-Rex Hondo-
I think they should call it "The Atlantis Chronicles."
Hey, if Aquaman starts getting some attention thanks to his show, maybe we can see more trades put out as a result! Same thing happened with Birds of Prey!
"Time and Tide" would work too. Or if they want to stick with just one word, make it "Leagues."
I'm a little concerned about the environmental angle. I'm not saying it doesn't have its place within Aquaman stories, but don't forget all the political intrigue!
Well,
'the Sea King' comes to mind. I wouldn't rule out an abstract one-word title....
I had the same thought (wondering exactly what he would be 'Sea King'), though Seaking is also the name of a Pokemon, which'll probably put them off... (tries to imagine a young Aquaman with a Pokemon tatoo)
Not really an Aquaman fan. As long as its done "Baywatch" style I'll watch! This was on the Retro Crush site. A true Aqua-fan. He wasn't very happy with PAD's version, though...,
Cheers.
Team him up with Erik Estrada and call the show "Fish and CHiPs"!
OK, I'll get my coat....
Some of the casting information that has gone out have had characters making reference to "Devil's Deep," which, a Google search found (since it's been a while since I read them) was a location/part of your Aqua-run.
That being said, maybe they'll use THAT as the title. No one's telling me. Though there was the joke made about "The A.C.," I think (and hope!) it was a joke.
I've set up a website about the Aquaman TV project - http://www.aquamantv.com - for those interested in what's surfaced so far. No pun intended. Or maybe it was.
Mr. David, loved your chapters of The Other, really glad to see you writing Spider-Man and already awaiting your return. You're one of the best (and wittiest) writers in the comics field. Though I'm sure you already know that.
Though of course, nothing tops the "are you Captain Marvel Junior" or "brush with Death" gags in CM or the Hulk. I'm sure there's much more where that came from.
Forgot to say... all this Man From Atlantis talk... I think it'd be hilarious if they got Patrick Duffy to cameo, or heck, play "Tom Curry." He's got that 80s star cache of a John Schneider or Don Johnson, who have also shown up on the WB.
And hey, we should be sad for Stuart Townsend anyway. The Night Stalker was axed mid-cliffhanger :(
Guess he can also join Rebecca Gayheart - lasted one day as Inara on the set of Firefly before being replaced by Morena Baccarin.
Jeez, I can't believe you forgot the line from the Aqua-boy episode: Junior Lifeguard Association, or JLA
They'll just use the catch phrase from the Smallville episode: "Wet & Ready, Brah!"
How about "Quest for Sea?"
(Can't believe no one's suggested "Seaquestville.")
Well, it still seems to me that "Aquaman" is the best, most accurate title, whether or not the character actually uses the name as a "code-name" in the series. Following the "Smallville" formula, "Atlantis" would seem to be the obvious choice. And yes, there is "Stargate: Atlantis" - but if "Angel" and "Dark Angel" could both air - at one time, opposite each other (AND reruns of "Touched by an Angel" on PAX) IIRC - I don't think the similarity in these titles would necessarily put the "Atlantis" name out of the realm of possibility. Beyond that, the best I've thought of is something evocative of both the physical (namely, water) and emotional content likely to be present: "Tides"; "Tidal"; "Waves"; or maybe just "Wave". ("Tidal Waves" might come off a little goofy.) But, naming's always been one of my weaker points, anyway, so ....
"Aqua" Would be the perfect title.
I don't think this show is going to work Pad.
The one thing I learned from your run on Aquaman was this. I liked making fun of Aquaman more than I liked cheering him on. Your run almost made Aquaman jokes obsolete. Do you have any idea how close we came to living in a world without "Aquaman is lame" jokes? I don't want to live in a world without Aquaman jokes. :)
Mark Harris couldn't talk in the first episode, could he? I loved that show (hey, I was a little kid) and Ann Gillian was the star of many of my earstwhile dreams during that period. I thought Duffy did a great job of the lost innocent amnesiac (though the episode where he found his brother was just... sad... even to my urchin eyes).
I'd think the name for an Aquaman show would depend on what direction they follow. The whole thing can't be underwater, can it? Most of it would have to be on land... unless it's animated, in which case who cares? There hasn't been a decent animated television show... maybe ever...
I'm actually going to try a real shot here and go with either "Time and Tide" or "Aquarius"
I'm thinking with the right sponsor this show could go far. Maybe something ocean related. Since he's Arthur Curry, I've got an idea.
"Chicken Curry of the Sea" anyone?
My understanding from what I've read thus far is that the new show will be pre-Aquaman, just as Smallville is pre-Superman.
This means he will be on a quest to find his purpose in life and how to best use his abilities, a...
...Sea Hunt.
Unfortunately, inasmuch as Aquaman is only slightly more well-known to the mundane audience on whom the ratings depend than The Huntress or Oracle, perhaps the appropriate title will be (my entry in the "Cancelled Faster Than..." Sweepstakes) Cancelled Faster Than Birds of Prey.
More seriously, as mentioned above, Tidal Waves, Flow, and Strange Waves all sound very WB-ish, although unfortunately none of them will imply "Aquaman" as Smallville implies "Superman".
C. A. Bridges wrote:
> ...because this Clark Kent can't possibly
> become any version of Superman we've ever
> seen?
Well, no, he won't -- this is, after all, Earth-Smallville, an entirely different, more angst-y universe than the setting of any other version of the Mythos ever told.
It's certainly true that the Superman and Clark Kent personas will be separate only to those who didn't know Clark before he added eyeglasses and Superman made his first public appearance -- which means that not only will Lana and Lex know, but the former and current Sheriffs back home in Smallville, as well as probably many other people in the town. That Clark Kent is Superman will be as much of a "secret" among the cognoscenti as George Takei's gayness was to the L. A. gay community before he came out to the Associated Press.
A universe in which Lex Luthor knows Superman's "secret identity" from the beginning -- that'll certainly change the dynamic. It's a shame the show will end when Tom Welling first puts on the costume.
My understanding from what I've read thus far is that the new show will be pre-Aquaman, just as Smallville is pre-Superman.
This means he will be on a quest to find his purpose in life and how to best use his abilities, a...
...Sea Hunt.
Unfortunately, inasmuch as Aquaman is only slightly more well-known to the mundane audience on whom the ratings depend than The Huntress or Oracle, perhaps the appropriate title will be (my entry in the "Cancelled Faster Than..." Sweepstakes) Cancelled Faster Than Birds of Prey.
More seriously, as mentioned above, Tidal Waves, Flow, and Strange Waves all sound very WB-ish, although unfortunately none of them will imply "Aquaman" as Smallville implies "Superman".
C. A. Bridges wrote:
> ...because this Clark Kent can't possibly
> become any version of Superman we've ever
> seen?
Well, no, he won't -- this is, after all, Earth-Smallville, an entirely different, more angst-y universe than the setting of any other version of the Mythos ever told.
It's certainly true that the Superman and Clark Kent personas will be separate only to those who didn't know Clark before he added eyeglasses and Superman made his first public appearance -- which means that not only will Lana and Lex know, but the former and current Sheriffs back home in Smallville, as well as probably many other people in the town. That Clark Kent is Superman will be as much of a "secret" among the cognoscenti as George Takei's gayness was to the L. A. gay community before he came out to the Associated Press.
A universe in which Lex Luthor knows Superman's "secret identity" from the beginning -- that'll certainly change the dynamic. It's a shame the show will end when Tom Welling first puts on the costume.
Correction to the above: Lana and Lex and Lois will know.
Yeah, it will be a changed dynamic.
"Under da Sea"?
"Surface" (Oops, taken.)
"The Atlantis Chronicles"?
GOSH! How 'bout : "Neptunian Dynamite"
or something for the younger viewers: "JLA Squarepants"
just call me a "Sea Pest"
actually considering that Al Gough and Miles Millar want the series to be about Arthur serving his life by "protecting the ocean" , Peter's choice for "Trident" makes complete sense, but with the marketing infringement on the chewing gum name hanging in the wings, I don't think it would happen.
by the way pappa pete,
the casting call for the series said the pilot would not be shot in LA.
If they aren't going to connect it directly to Smallville, then they could have it be a spinnoff of that other shortlived WB/DC live action show and call it Fish of Prey.
Hey one of the supporting characters could even be in a wheelchair! Young Arthur is aided in his persuits by Young Lori Lemaris!
My thoughts range from the silly to the obvious.
Accurate, but Misleading...
King Arthur
Atlantis
Already Taken...
SeaQuest: PAD
Mera: Warrior Princess
CSI: Atlantis
A Current Affair
What I Hope It's Not..
Soapy Water
Never Gonna Happen...
Erik Larsen's Aquaman
(that would be about as accurate as calling Coppola's version "Bram Stoker's" Dracula or the Jane Fonda vehicle "Henrik Ibsen's" A Doll's House)
For an angst-ridden title I like "Below the Surface", but that's bound to cause corporate trademark conflicts.
I like some of the other people's selections, and they might make good episode titles if they don't get used as the show's moniker. For the Cure fan, I would think either "Standing on a Beach" or "Staring at the Sea" would make a good episode name. Of course, someone would have to die in that episode. For the Pearl Jam fan, "Even Flow" would be the obvious choice.
They just better hope that the show does OK in the ratings or before you can say "Saturday Night Dead", there will be one thousand critics out there with sinking/drowning puns. ("Variety Says Fish Tanks!")
Cancelled in six episodes? I don't know. It could outlast "The Flash" series (21 episodes). I would think that "Smallville" is robust enough for a spinoff.
"The amazing thing is that they haven't learned the "Smallville" lesson, which is that not having the superhero be a superhero hobbles the entire series. At this point, "Smallville" is like "House". You watch it once and you've seen the whole series because it repeats itself so much. "
'04 was a down season for "Smallville" and it was watched by over 5 million people every week. Comics rarely sell anything like 200,000 issues and even then it is often with #1 issues and variant covers. A good monthly comic audience is closer to 100,000.
If anything, the lesson of "Smallville" is that DC characters have enormous appeal that is limited by the fetishistic nature of their traditional fan base. Comics are a dying medium, but its characters work extremely well across every other medium. That should be telling someone, something.
On the title question, the WB skews both young and female. Comic readerships skews both older and very male. Part of what made "Smallville" work was that neither the title, nor the ad campaign, screamed "SUPERHERO STORY!" If you knew the Superman story, then you got immediately. If you didn't, then it looked an awful lot like a sci-fi "Dawson's Creek". According to the Season 1 DVD, they got an awful lot of letters from young female viewers asking questions that indicated that they had no idea the show they loved was about Superman.
That is why I think Aquaman is a great candidate for this treatment. It has a great premise (Atlantis, the lonely lighthouse keeper, a BIG secret, etc.), but the name has a ton of fan-boy baggage. Key West is a perfect location. Patrick Duffy would make an awesome Tom Curry.
Title-wise, I would hope for something vague, like "The Lighthouse".