First issue of FNSM hits the stands. Whaddaya think?
PAD
Posted by Peter David at October 13, 2005 06:06 PM | TrackBack | Other blogs commentingI thought it was pretty great. The pacing, humor and characterization were all spot-on. I can't wait for your Marvel Knights issue. I'm happy that Morlun is back to mess with Spidey's life.
Refreshing.
An exciting beginning to what I hope will be a very long and healthy run on this title!
I like Tracer's moxy...from his GQ-smooth demeanor during the bank robbery to his stone-cold, kill'ya'dead look on page 6, panel one.
Favorite Line: You Bet Your Butt, "whoa."
2nd Favorite Line: Well, this is just bad on so MANY levels...
Only question I have though...will there be any resolution to the storypoint Mark Millar began with JJJ believing that Spider-Man is his son?
If he really believed that Spidey was John, wouldn't he abandon his media crusade? Especially, since it was Spider-Man who saved (or "interfered with", if you believe Jonah)his son's space capsule in Amazing Spider-Man #1? Just thought to ask.
Anyway, keep up the greatness, you have brought me back to collecting Spider-Man again!
-BMK!-
Not to sound contrary, but...what I think is that I think I'm waiting for #4. No interest in reading parts 1-3 of "The Other" if I won't be reading parts 4-9.
(Letter sent to Messers Brevoort and Quesada to that effect, too.)
Nice script, although I'm a bit underwhelmed by the art. The sequence with Steve Rogers was very nicely done, as was the notion that Spidey could literally snag a pair of bullets out of the air if he really put his mind to it. Like the previous poster, I'm not all that sure I'll sign on for a 12-part serial, but I'll happily give the first three a shot and see what happens after that.
In a way, it's sort of a shame that the debut issue has to be the first part of a multi-part epic, as there has to be so much set-up for things to come. It will be interesting to see how things shape up in issue five and beyond as Peter gives the book its own distinctive tone.
I already listed my favorite line in another thread, but I liked it, and if cash flow permits, I'll be picking up the rest of the arc - if only to learn how Morlun arose from a pile of dust (or did he? Maybe there's another one like him around, with similar tastes in haberdashery?).
Thought the bullet trick was good, especially the fact that the first attempt only half-worked. Also thought that Steve had a good point - sometimes, following your instincts will get you killed. That's why the dominant species on this planet has the gift of reason...
I liked the first few pages, even if David Van Domelen did use it as an opportunity for a truly horrible pun.
The rest of it -- I'm definitely intrigued, and I do plan on getting the rest of the arc (since I was reading JMS' stuff anyway, it's not that huge a stretch).
I agree with whoever said they were underwhelmed by the art, though -- Wieringo's work was okay in FF, but seems weaker here.
I also agree that I'm curious to see what you've got in store once this is really "your" book as opposed to a huge crossover.
TWL
I like it. Wish that it wasn't part of a cro$$-over for the first three issues, but I can live with it. Good sequence with Steve and that MJ is there working with him.
My fave line (or exchange really)...
MJ "Yeah? What if you Die? What're the odds of you getting better then?
Peter "Seriously? Suprisingly good."
I know that Mike is still working on this interpretation of Spidey and I'm willing to let him work it out, since I trust what will come out on paper.
jeff
It was fun. I really enjoyed it, and I enjoyed the interaction between Spidey and Cap. J. Michael Straczynski is showing Spidey be more reliable and a team player in the Avengers, this showed him having some growth. It's feeling like the Avengers are a real factor in his life, not just a temporary marketing gimmick. He's growing. That's cool.
My one quibble was seeing MJ get unhappy when Peter went out injured. It's a reasonable reaction, but I'm rather tired to Peter and MJ's marriage problems. I've seen that so much in the last few years, and the same kind of stuff in Ultimate. It's not a major problem, I'm just a little tired of them being unhappy.
Overall, a really great story. Fun and interesting.
Trust your instincts.
Man has only four---winking, blinking, sucking, and jerking. Without thoses four, we would never survive infancy.
Anything else is not instinct.
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I enjoyed the first issue except for two points: the bullets and Mary Jane's attitude. A bullet is a projectile. It goes in one direction until it strikes an object. It has no propulsion after the initial explosion. A boomerang bullet?
Mary Jane is whining about Peter going off to fight a villain. Please, Marvel, make up your collectively lame mind. Either Mary Jane supports Peter or she leaves him. This playing it both ways depending on who is writing the book is getting old. This has been going on for over 5 years and is getting very tiresome.
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Even with all three of those comments, this is one of the best written Spider-Man stories in ages. Good job.
Overall, I liked it, too. I caught all the Morlun stuff the first time around in Amazing three years ago and have kept reading Amazing ever since. I agree that the characterization was spot on, especially the emphasis on how other heroes can be, um, overwhelmed sometimes by Spidey's personality. Thought Tracer had a solid first appearance, and I agree the "success" of Spidey's attempt at Zen and the art of bullet-catching was perfect.
I have to admit, though, that I thought the art was fine, but nothing spectacular (oh, sure, pun intended... why not?). The characters seemed a little more... cartoony than I'm used to seeing them in other titles. But this is more observation than a complaint; I couldn't draw my way out of wet toilet paper, so don't take my word for it.
I liked it. I'm looking forward to the rest.
And here's a SPOILER comment/question. Unfortunately, I don't know how to change colors or whatever to make it highlight-visible only, so again, this is a SPOILER COMMENT - There will be SPOILERS here... BTW, if you continue reading this post, you will read a potential SPOILER...
Did I mention - SPOILER IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWS:
I'm hedging my bets on whether it's really Morlun or not we see in this issue. Remembering some of the things we have seen since his original defeat, I think it's something else entirely that's taken the guise of Morlun because, well, Spidey didn't really win over Morlun as much as Morlun got a bad beat, so he's definitely one of those villians Spidey probably feels lucky to have gotten past, not one he feels he can beat anytime he wants. He fears him, a lot, and I think that's important if the story dives into the mystical origins of Spidey's powers.
It's just a shame to me that the book has such a great, fun title, but it's stuck at the very beginning in this "dark" crossover. With a name like FN Spider-Man, I was hoping for a colorful cover, maybe something like Mike Allred would draw. (Peter, get Mike Allred to draw this book and I will buy ten copies of it). I understand PAD's reasons for participating in the crossover, but it definitely saps the fun out of it... Which is kind of a bad way to start out.
How does this book fit into INFINITE CRISIS?
I'm just kidding. Great book. Loved it.
Sorry, but I'm just not excited over this whole "The Other" crossover. I read this first part and was just so under whelmed. Hopefully things will pick up after this crossover event is over and FNSM will turn out to be a great Spidey title (the other two titles need help). As for the artwork, I thought it was okay. Wieringo draws a decent Spidey, but his villains don't look all that formidable at all (too cartoony).
And hey, what was really going on there on page two? Did MJ have her mouth full or something?
Great issue, I especially liked how you're basically ignoring the plot twist from Millar's run where Jonah thinks Spider-Man is his son, John. It never made any sense.
One thing that I didn't like; MJ complaining about Peter going out to find the Tracer. JMS has done wonderful things with the couple and I have no desire to see the bad old times return. I got a Byrne/Mackie flashback there, definitely not a good thing. :-)
Other than that, it was good. Happy to see Morlun back.
Good first issue. The dialogue seemed pretty sharp throughout, especially Peter/Spidey's wise-cracks.
Weiringo's art didn't stand out for me this issue, but that's okay. At least I didn't get any overstylized posing, like with most of the 'hot' artists being bandied around these days. The action sequences came off well, and there's enough of a mystery here for me to come back for the next issue.
KET
Loved your writing on the first issue Peter...and ive never been a big fan of Weiringo...but i thought his art was much better than his first run on spidey...to the point where i had to go look back at the credits to make sure it was him! Storywise, im a little blah on where all this is going...as i just dont have much faith when it comes to these big storylines with spidey...but I will stick around to find out and try to reserve judgement until then.
I thought it was a well written and enjoyable issue ... unless Spidey dies and comes back to life in the near future, in which case there was way too much foreshadowing.
Lynn
Well, if Diamond hadn't screwed things up, and shorted several accounts (including MINE) I would have gotten to read it before all my customers snagged 'em up.
Okay, so we got our Marvel preview books in this morning, and among them was next week's Marvel Knights Spider-Man. Those that aren't pleased with Weiringo's art (which I personally liked, but that's me) are really gonna be upset next week. Two words.
Pat Lee.
Though the writing really is top notch. Those complaining about MJ's attitude, give it a little. There's a reason.
All I'm saying, except keep it up, PAD! I can't wait to see where this story's going.
Great first issue. I was unsure about this crossover, but my interest is definitely piqued. Wieringo's art seemed off for some reason, but still enjoyable. Loved the bullet scene and training with Steve Rogers. Could it be that Peter has lieukemia from the spider bite? Can't wait for Part 2!
The best parts; the scenes with Cap and Jonah.
All around nice art and funny dialogue.
Even though I'm not wild about JMS' plots crossing over into this book, you handled it very well and even made it intriguing.
I dug the bullet gimmick, though not necessarily Tracer's look... I suppose we'll eventually learn why he dresses like he's from "Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome".
I'm surprised, though, that they let you put a sex scene (even in shadow) into the book, since it's labeled all-ages. Doesn't bother me, but I could see it raising some eyebrows.
It was alright. No idea who Modrun et al are, but then again, I haven't read (non-Ultimate) SM for about a decade (Yes. Clones.) and it was still pretty understandable. Disappointed that the first story-arc kicks of a Xover instead of a standalone storyline.
Bullets that chase you slowly? Lame.
Training with Captain America? Kinda cool.
Peter scared 'cuz he's beat "Parker luck"? Well written.
Generic creepy stalker dude? Oh, we're supposed to alread know him? Whatever.
JMS crossover? Annoying as hell.
Overall I thought it was a very good issue, and Wieringo's work was great except for Tracer's costume design, which is horribly generic and boring (and that beard - wha??)
The moment with the bullets I liked but I do think was cheating somewhat. Spidey should not have been able to catch even one of them. He is not invulnerable and doesn't have unbreakable skin. He doesn't have Flash-style super speed. A bullet striking him dead on in the hands would - as we saw - blow bloody greatholes in them. The fact that one of them got through (the best moment in the issue, actually: "Ah, crap...")kind of mitigated things but I think overall it was a bit of a cheat, PAD.
And I agree with the posters above: ignore whatever happened in Millar's MK run. It was 90% posing and 10% bullshit anyway.
I don't read the Spider-Man books but thought of getting this one simply because you were writing it. I have no interest in picking up the other books either. Launching with a big crossover where you have no choice but to buy the other title made me decide to give this one a pass.
Maybe I'll check it out with issue 5 once this mess is over.
I enjoyed this issue emmensely. In a single issue, it stood out as the best Spidey comics that I've read in years. Loved the humor, the angst, the Parker luck and your usage of symbolism in the dream. Nice touch using the frog, which is often associated with the power of resurrection and renewal. Death is dreams often implies change, rather than actual death. Tossing in a morgue, a body, Ben and and absurdly dressed Kravan was a nice touch. Based on this set-up, it seems we may see more of an evolution of the character, than the physical metamorphasis, death, clone, etc that we've seen in rumors and speculation across the internet.
Fred
I'm not a Spider-Fan because I don't like Mr. Whiney Pants' whininess. Keep keeping those thought balloons out and you'll be keeping me as a reader!
I have to agree with several of the posters above, I was looking forward to a fresh new Spider-Man title written by Peter, but it's part of some ridiculious 12 part crossover??? What, the House of SM??
Sorry. All I wanted to do was to read a solid Spider-Man comic not "part whatever" of yet again some needless "epic" crossover.
It's kind of ironic that I got my CBG yesterday and it's "But I Digress" has Peter's article about the kids who don't or never have read a Spider-Man comic and only know the character from the movies or video games.
Why don't we just give them a copy of this new Spider-Man title, then they'll see..... oh, right, it's part of some mega cross title storyline.
Yeah, that'll get them interested.
I've been waiting for this for so long, Peter David back on Spider-Man. And I wasn't disappointed.
One of the best sequences was the training with Cap. It was great to see Mary Jane actually participating, which tells me MJ's days of being the damsel-in-distress are numbered for any sorry mother's son who messes with her.
It's pretty fun reading, but I'll have to repeat my comments that this is a pretty crummy marketing strategy on Marvel's part.
I mean, this book is for All Ages. Marvel Knights, however, isn't supposed to be.
So, you've just told any kid who isn't supposed to be reading MK that they must miss 1/3rd of the story.
Why not just start up a Spidey title under MAX and make some even greater boneheaded publishing move, shall we?
It seems like Marvel has taken a few steps back these days, going back to the ol' tried-and-helped-fubar-the-industry stuff from the 90's, like the yearly massive crossover, multiple covers of just about everything in sight, and putting out alot of crap.
Not to mention ruining one of my favorite comics (New Warriors) with art not worthy of a Clifford the Dog book.
Anyways. I'm sure, given enough time, this book will do good things - you can't go wrong with PAD at the helm.
My plan is to read all of PAD's books this month, then just FNSM after that. I expect I'll be able to endure Hudlin's turn on it...the stuff I dislike about his writing of Black Panther would not be particularly bad on Spider-Man.
As for the tracing bullets, there's two main possibilities. One, Tracer has superpowers, and the bullets aren't special unless he wants them to be. Two, there's been enough antigrav tech floating around in the Marvel U since day one (i.e. the Wingless Wizard) that a device to fire seeking bullets is plausible. They'd have to be slower, of course, to avoid shattering their own internal tracking circuits upon firing.
Finally, anyone wondering what my horrible pun was, I said in my review that the issue started with a bang.
Nice issue. But if the truth be told I would have prefered you to stay on Hulk. Spidey was already being done well, Hulk wasn't. So now we've got lots of well written storys for Spidey and Hulk will be crap again.
Scrap one from my pull list.
Won't touch SM books until the Sins of the Past are fixed. Made the Clone mess look like a Pulitzer winner. PAD, can you please fix that mess?
And hey, what was really going on there on page two? Did MJ have her mouth full or something?
Well, that's one way of putting it . . .
Snowcrash, Morlun was a member of a race that feeds off of life energy, a la vampires, except that they just need to touch their victims. They seem to get the biggest rush off of those whose powers are similar to, or derived from, animal species. Morlun was fixated on Peter because he, like Ezekiel, was convinced that Peter had been chosen by some "spider totem" to receive his powers. From Morlun's POV, that would have made him especially tasty, and kept Morlun going for another century. (Did I mention the immortality angle?) However, when they finally had their big fight, Peter had just injected himself with coolant water from a nuclear reactor - not the safe heat-exchange fluid, but the water from inside the chamber itself. This made him sufficiently radioactive that every time Morlun touched him, the energy-vampire took damage. (I know, I know - but this is comic-book physics. You swallowed Pym particles, didn't you?) In the end, Morlun had been sufficiently weakened that his former slave, a man named Dex, was able to break Morlun's control and shoot him. The body crumbled to dust (while Morlun whined, "I was just hungry...").
Now we see either Morlun, or someone like him, back after Spidey. Presumably, whatever Peter's current problem is, it's related to either Morlun's attack, or the insanity of dosing himself even more with radiation. That's why I plan on buying the entire crossover - I want to see what they have in mind, and how they'll resolve it (we know Peter will come out physically okay on the other end - Marvel would no more kill off Spider-Man than Wolverine. The suspense is in seeing exactly how they'll pull it off).
BTW, Dave, I should have made it clear that using a horrible pun is not in fact a negative so far as your review was concerned. (Considering the individual whose site we're both posting on right now, it would probably be a Really Bad Thing were I particularly pun-averse.)
TWL
I think I wish I got comics more than twice a month. I suppose that's what I get for ordering comics online. And being cheap. That doesn't help, either.
JAB
I thought as an issue it was great. The art reminded me of Romita Sr. a bit. As said above, I didnt like that it was part of a crossover story. At least it was part 1 and not in the middle of something. Marvel + crossovers still leave a bad taste in my mouth.
Oh, you were right Peter, it's adult but totally exceptable for kids. Im going to re-read it a few more times and review it on my blog.
I'll echo a few others here: I was not interested in buying the first part of a 12 part "epic". I may come aboard as of #4, but right now it's not likely. This "epic" definitely cost Marvel and PAD a reader.
Enjoyed it quite a bit. I think I would prefer a different inker over 'Ringo's pencils.
Looking forward to the next issues of MK and Amazing, REALLY looking forward to issue 4, highly bemused by people who don't like the crossover and profess to enjoy PAD's work not picking up the title with Issue 4. That's a collector's mentality, not a reader's.
I enjoyed the story in the first issue. The fact that it is only the first part of a multiple issues crossover does not bother me. I know that the "marketing" purpose was to make sure that readers of the other two books buy this one.
The art was not impressive. This suprised me as I really enjoyed Ringo's artwork in the past. Perhaps it was the inker's fault? I am not sure. I just know that I am used to better from Ringo.
I agree that I'd rather this not be a crossover issue like others. (Issue #2 to start a crossover, but #1 to start the book with the pure PAD flavor).
My only quibble was the art. Not that it's bad, but just not what I was expecting. (I really haven't seen Ringo's art since his Flash run, so I'm just not used to his new, more...classic, style.)
Tim: That's pretty much how I took it, don't fret. :)
"Oh, you were right Peter, it's adult but totally exceptable for kids."
Well, that's what "all ages" means.
I wanted to have Peter and Mary Jane in bed together being loving in the very beginning, but knew perfectly well that the average seven year old would look at them kissing, go, "Ewww," and put the book back. So I kept everyone--Peter, Mary Jane, the readers--in the dark, and wrote dialogue so vague that it could be anything. Everyone reads into it as little or as much as they want.
And guys, as for Mary Jane expressing concern: It doesn't mean I'm going to depict them with their marriage in trouble. To me, quite the contrary: If she wasn't concerned about an injured Spidey going out after Tracer, THEN their marriage is in trouble. A woman not caring is certainly the first sign of that, don't you think?
PAD
PAD, I see your point about MJ showing concern and totally agree. Maybe it's just that the way MJ shows concern in this book comes off as very similar to previous instances which were usually the first step down some "INIFINITE CRISIS OF MARITAL WOES" plotline so Spidey could truly be all angsty. Me personally, I think a lot of us like Peter and MJ living the good life for a while and are just waiting to see when the other shoe will drop. I know I definitely would not look forward to yet another relationship-problem angle; they've been together too long now to keep letting the same things drive them apart. I like the source of tension being the villains, and not some internal struggle with years-old stuff that shouldn't be an issue now.
Actually, Jason, I think it's quite possible that there won't be another shoe, no matter how much the Parkers expect it. Remember, Peter's just not used to things breaking his way, as PAD explored in this issue. In the past, his first true love was killed by his friend's father/worst enemy, his second true love was almost killed by his second costume, and then there was that thing with her needing him to comfort her - and all those people in the explosion needing his help too, what with the FF and the Avengers being unavailable. He had no one to count on besides himself, and his life put everyone he loved in danger.
Now, he's an Avenger, so he's got teammates for backup. Since his apartment and his aunt's house were destroyed, he's moved into Avengers Tower with his wife and aunt. They have a great life together, May and Jarvis are apparently becoming involved, Peter's bills are being paid - the entire pattern of the Parker existence has reversed itself. Is it any wonder Peter keeps expecting it all to blow up in his face at any moment?
Peter
I'm interested as to where you see this fit into 'current'continuity? One of my major gripes is that (whether ultimately explained or not)the recent House of M: Spiderman titles don't seem to have much in common with the continuity of the main House of M story - in fact they seem totally contradictory so far).
Does The Other take place after House of M? Around current New Avengers timing? Or doe those two time-frmaes contradict?
I likes me my good stories, but I gets a bit sick of stuff that could be chronologically explained with a bit of forethought, but often isn't.
John
And apologies for the awful spelling. All fingers and thumbs tonight.
Overall, I liked it. I would have preferred that you were able to start your story without it being this crossover, but you handled that well.
I especially liked the "Heloooo, nurse" line.
I added this to my pull list before it ever came out, and that won't be changing any time soon. (I already get JMS, so will "splurge" on the issues written by the other guy.)
I wanted to have Peter and Mary Jane in bed together being loving in the very beginning, but knew perfectly well that the average seven year old would look at them kissing, go, "Ewww," and put the book back. So I kept everyone--Peter, Mary Jane, the readers--in the dark, and wrote dialogue so vague that it could be anything. Everyone reads into it as little or as much as they want.
Sorry, don't buy it. I know this won't surprise you, but even as vague as you kept it, I think this is inappropriate for a title truly aimed to include the younger set. The setting for the scene -- whatever was happening -- did nothing to advance the story.
That aside, I look forward to seeing where you take this once the crossover is finished and the story direction is more fully your own.
Iowa Jim
PAD
to agree with so many, i thought you handled all the characters very well. you really brought the Peter i grew up with (not you, that guy in the comic) to life without simply using some cliche stuff as some writers do.
Personally, i have enjoyed most of JMS' Spidey run and my only real complaint is the New Avengers. i've always been a big fan of Spidey interacting with other heroes, and thought he deserved the recognition of being an Avenger, but i thought the whole 'honorary member' thing was good enough (although apparently that didnt REALLY happen since he's in such awe of being an Avenger).
the POINT here is to say that i am interested in your take on what JMS has started and how you'll move on from there because, well, youre awesome.
and Weiringo is pretty good artist for Spidey and im glad to see that he has a little less... scrawny (?) of a Spidey to give us.
I know this won't surprise you, but even as vague as you kept it, I think this is inappropriate for a title truly aimed to include the younger set. The setting for the scene -- whatever was happening -- did nothing to advance the story.
The information we got during that setting was necessary exposition, and PAD needed *some* way to make it more interesting than a flat infodump. I think he kept it sufficiently vague -- any members of "the younger set" who have an inkling of what's going on in those pages didn't get that inkling from comics in the first place.
TWL
I enjoyed it. I like MJ and I found it believable that she would be concerned for Peter to go out while he's injured.
I also liked the Dr. I'm guessing she's appeared in other Marvel titles, but I've never seen her before. I liked her and the interaction between her and Peter.
Fuuuuuuch. This is a crossover? Gah! Will someone just leave a little note that summarizes everything up when the crossover is done? I just refuse to buy a bunch of different titles to try to follow a story. Not worth my time or money or the darn effort. A little note would be nice, though.
Yay! Thanks for a fun read, PAD.
"Sorry, don't buy it. I know this won't surprise you, but even as vague as you kept it, I think this is inappropriate for a title truly aimed to include the younger set. The setting for the scene -- whatever was happening -- did nothing to advance the story."
And I know this won't surprise you, but I think you're completely wrong. Every comic is someone's first, plus any number of people were stating that they were going to be picking up FNSM because I was writing it, even though they weren't buying any other Spidey titles. So I needed to establish up front (a) Peter's current status as an Avenger, (b) the themes I intend to explore, (c) Peter and Mary Jane are a loving, married couple, and (d) something of Peter's background vis a vis Uncle Ben. And I had to do it all in a way that would be visually interesting.
To claim that it's "inappropriate for the younger set" is just asinine. The younger set won't know what's going on in that sequence on ANY level and will just glide over it and into the cool action sequences on the very next page. The ONLY way that a member of the "younger set" is "informed" of any particular adult interpretation of that sequence is if an adult tells them. In that event, I think the problem is not the comic, but the adult.
And by the way, Jim, if you were remotely as straight thinking and righteous as you pretend to be, I'd have to believe that you'd read that sequence and only see it as a couple being affectionate. Shows where your mind truly is.
PAD
Sex scene? What?
I thought she was just giving him a massage.
He was sore after a long day of webslinging.
Shame on you, Matt Adler, for having a dirty mind. :)
And by the way, it's not "aimed at the younger set." I find myself wondering, yet again, what part of "all ages" is unclear.
PAD
And the rest of you guys, too!
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This is my first Spider-Man title since Romita Jr left Amazing Spider-Man. I will be back for more.
As to Weiringo's art, I am not a great fan of cartoony art in most superhero books. I like his work here much more than I did his Fantastic Four work.
I have to agree with a previous poster that this is the best written Spider-Man in a long time.
I loved seeing Peter and Steve practicing Tai Chi together. Their dialog was hilarious, as was the scene with the bullet catching. Nice work!
highly bemused by people who don't like the crossover and profess to enjoy PAD's work not picking up the title with Issue 4. That's a collector's mentality, not a reader's.
(Assuming "...not picking up the title with issue 4.." to mean "...not picking up the title until issue 4...")--
For starters...my mistake for making the typo...I meant #5, not #4. Issue 4 is the last FNSM issue of "The Other." ;-)
But, I don't see how it's "not a reader's mentality." In fact, it's purely from a reader's point of view that I made my decision. Follow...
--As a reader, I enjoy PAD's work.
--As a reader, I don't enjoy JMS's work.
--As a reader, I don't enjoy Hudlin's work.
--As a reader, I don't see much point in reading chapters 1-3 and 10 if I know going in that I won't be reading chapters 4-9 and 11-12.
As a reader, when it comes to these big, honkin' crossovers, I decide whether or not to read the thing on a case-by-case basis. If all the creators involved (particulary the writers) produce work I enjoy, then odds are that I'm already reading all of the books involved. If there's a mix of those whose work I enjoy and those whose work I don't enjoy, however, I let the ratio of like to don't like help inform my decision. In the case of "The Other," fully 2/3 of the story, including the conclusion, are by writers whose work I don't enjoy. So...I'm holdin' out 'til #5.
I enjoyed it. The problem with multi-part stories is that sometimes characters behave strangely in the first issue and the reader has no idea if it was simply sloppy writing or that a payoff will occur in a later issue. I trust both MJ's trepidation and Tracer's backstory will eventually be explained in the story. The part with JJJ was great--not the usual, stereotypical "web-headed menace" jabber most lazy writers assign him, but a succinct "drop dead" look in his eyes and the words "Read my paper tomorrow" response! I liked how Peter thinks he's far wittier when he's wearing the mask, and is somewhat insecure without it.
Mike's art was okay--but I expect he'll reach "FF-level" goodness after he's had a few issue into his run. Perhaps he's uncomfortable and feels a bit restrained setting up things that won't be resolved in an issue he'll be drawing.
Also: I LOVED Peter's short Monstrollo story in this week's WHERE MONSTERS DWELL one-shot! Very funny sequel to the original Lee/Kirby story, with a very human revenge story at its center!
"I know that Mike is still working on this interpretation of Spidey and I'm willing to let him work it out, since I trust what will come out on paper.
jeff"
Jeff- actually Mike Wieringo has drawn Spider-Man quite a bit (with other spidey titles), but yes he could be thinking about making a different appearance for this particular title.
alot on the plate when there is so much out there.
as always though, Peter brings a good read to this issue and I'm on board for the moment.
Shame on you, Matt Adler, for having a dirty mind. :)
Heh. Like I said, doesn't bother me (even if I were a parent, and my kid asked me what they were doing, I don't think a biological explanation is going to "corrupt" a child), but you just know some people are gonna be up in arms over it. Case in point...
Nytewyng, I think he was referring to those people who have stated that they enjoy PAD's work, but since FNSM is starting off with a crossover, they don't intend to ever pick up the title at all, ever, because then there'd be a gap in the ol' collection.
I like PAD's writing. I also like JMS' writing. And I'm curious enough about how all this will be working out to pick up the other guy's issues, too. That's my perspective as a reader - I don't expect these issues to last long enough to become "collectible". If I'm lucky, they'll last long enough to pass on to my daughter, or perhaps my not-yet-born son. As long as I get my three bucks' worth of entertainment out of them, though, that's all I require - and PAD fulfills that and more.
"And guys, as for Mary Jane expressing concern: It doesn't mean I'm going to depict them with their marriage in trouble. To me, quite the contrary: If she wasn't concerned about an injured Spidey going out after Tracer, THEN their marriage is in trouble. A woman not caring is certainly the first sign of that, don't you think?"
Kinda. Kinda sorta. Her telling him not to go out didn't seem so bad. The comments she made after he'd gone kinda sounded like she was beginning to doubt her love for him.
Worrying about his well being is good, but some of us have been reading her worrying for *decades* now. Maybe it won't bother new readers so much, but worry after that long sounds more like a lack of trust.
Having Peter take lessons from Cap: Cool way to show her doing something to make Spidey safer.
Having her try to talk Peter out of going after the bad guy: I don't know if cops have to have this conversation with their wives every night for 20 years, but I really hope not.
"Sorry, don't buy it. I know this won't surprise you, but even as vague as you kept it, I think this is inappropriate for a title truly aimed to include the younger set. The setting for the scene -- whatever was happening -- did nothing to advance the story."
Hardly inappropriate. It isn't as though we have graphic scenes of raunchy behaviour. It is suggested to those who know what to look for and interpret it in their own way. If the kids already know what they're supposed to be thinking of, they've already been 'corrupted' as some might say.
Too, it's good to be occasionally reminded that there are good reasons why those two are together. And this is one of them.
"Having Peter take lessons from Cap: Cool way to show her doing something to make Spidey safer."
'Bout time.
Makes me wonder if super hero universes have no Role Playing Games. Take SMALLVILLE. You'd think Clark would realize he needs to develop and train his abilities, and that creating a character which just happens to have his abilities and using him in a MARVEL UNIVERSE-like RPG campaign with his friends, where he is forced to think of strategies to use against baddies would be almost as good as a currently unavailable Danger Room session. Save him a lot of grief down the line. It's certainly part of what I'd do.
Nytewyng, I think he was referring to those people who have stated that they enjoy PAD's work, but since FNSM is starting off with a crossover, they don't intend to ever pick up the title at all, ever, because then there'd be a gap in the ol' collection.
By golly...I hadn't considered the original wording that way. Good point.
I must admit, I've occasionally been guilty of that kind of "collector's perspective," particularly when it comes to titles near and dear to my heart.
Case in point: It's taking a lot of willpower right now to learn to live with creating the only gap in my Titans collection since 1980. But even the Titans can't get me to buy the two Liefeld issues. ;-)
Hey, Peter? Looking forward to your new Spike comics, but any chance you'll pen an Angel comic at some point?
I can't think of a better person to get a hold of Angel's often elusive characterization than you, the guy who writes Mackenzie Calhoun.
Peter, you brought me back to Spider-Man. Thumbs up for a great issue, both storywise and artistically.
And by the way, Jim, if you were remotely as straight thinking and righteous as you pretend to be, I'd have to believe that you'd read that sequence and only see it as a couple being affectionate. Shows where your mind truly is.
I believe sex is a good and appropriate thing in the right setting. And in this case, it is with a married couple. I don't think the act is bad, so there is nothing wrong with where my mind went. But it was unnecessary to use that setting to deliver that dialogue. Humorous, ironic, yes. But in an "all ages," not necessary.
As "affectionate" scenes go, obviously it was as "safe" and "neurtal" as is possible. Having read two issues of Fallen Angel, I know the alternative, so I do give you credit for that. We will just have to disagree on the appropriateness of the page.
Iowa Jim
"I believe sex is a good and appropriate thing in the right setting. And in this case, it is with a married couple. I don't think the act is bad, so there is nothing wrong with where my mind went. But it was unnecessary to use that setting to deliver that dialogue... We will just have to disagree on the appropriateness of the page."
"In the right setting?" A married couple in a bedroom at night in the dark. Obviously the right setting. Therefore good and appropriate...except, no, in your last sentence, you imply it's "inappropriate." How is dialogue so vague that it could mean anything inappropriate? Because it appeals to the dirtiest recesses of YOUR mind, while to a kid it will mean nothing? Surely that's your problem, not the kids' and not mine.
Now if you want a disagreement to translate as I'm right, you're wrong, fine. Because I am and you are.
PAD
As someone who hasn't ever purchased a Spiderman comic, but is familiar only with the character from the newspaper, television and movie versions...and has recently begun reading PADs comics because I like his novels...
I enjoyed the issue. I was fine with the artistic depictions. The 2nd page was a little strange for me to see in an 'all ages' comic, but I agree with PAD, no 'innocent' kid will see anything. And if they do, they aren't innocent.
However:
If MJ and Peter have been married for five years, and MJ actually is thinking that her love of irony is quickly approaching her love of Peter...those are her exact thoughts if I read them correctly...that's serious. Maybe it's just sarcastic, and she doesn't mean it, but that's not really clear. This is combined with her sarcastic 'and that would be a bad thing?" to suggest Peter stop being Spiderman. Worry? yes. Concern? yes. Not understanding after five years why Peter does what he does, and questioning her love? no. One poster above, though, suggested we might see a reason for this in an upcoming issue. So I'll let it slide.
I have a problem also with the idea that learning Chi can help you stop bullets with your bare hands. Yeah, it didn't work completely, but it shouldn't have worked as well as it did. Unless Peter evolved or is evolving new superpowers I was unaware of. The subtitle of the crossover is Evolve or Die. But hopefully there will be a better explanation than Chi.
I have no problem with bullets that seek out a particular person...This is a comic book.
I liked the cartoonish Tracer. He reminded me of some of the cartoonish villains I enjoyed as a kid.
Somewhat familiar with PADs past work on a different comic title....I did briefly wonder (in a humorous vein)...with the injured wrist and all...if one of the evolutions would involve a hook?
"I have a problem also with the idea that learning Chi can help you stop bullets with your bare hands. Yeah, it didn't work completely, but it shouldn't have worked as well as it did. Unless Peter evolved or is evolving new superpowers I was unaware of. The subtitle of the crossover is Evolve or Die. But hopefully there will be a better explanation than Chi. "
I don't think it was really about Chi at all. I think the point was that Cap was trying to tell Peter that he needed to learn to focus. So instead of running away from the bullets until he eventually became tired, Spidey stopped for a moment and thought up a plan. Maybe not the best plan, but a better plan than hoping the bullets got tired before he did.
The bullet stopping doesn't seem outside the limit of Spidey's abilities. A bullet doesn't exert any more force on the guy it hits than on the hand of the person firing the gun. It's just that all of that energy hits at the point of the bullet. Spidey's fast enough to dodge bullets, so he's fast enough to grab them and spread the force out through his fingers. He's just never tried it before.
Personally, I liked it when MJ grabbed Peter's peter. :-)
I picked it up today along with Infinte Crisis #1 and Street Fighter II #0.
FNSM was the best by far. Infinte Crisis, for all the hype, I felt had a weak lead off issue. And Street Fighter II was decent, but the book just had a few pages of actual content. Everthing was just interviews and previews for two of their other lines. Maybe Udon should concentrate on getting one tittle out montly for more than 14 moths before talking on other projects. But their other stuff is looking good I guess. I just hope everything comes out on a regualr basis now that they're their own publisher.
Whoops. Sorry for the mini-rant. With (all) that said, I can't wait to see what happens in MN:SM #19. I wonder what Parker has.
I got FNS today and I really liked it. Classic Spiderman! The wisecracks were great, the action was really good, the storyline was interesting, the new villian was too, and I liked Wieringo's art in this too and I'm usually not a big fan. Its a bit cartoonish, but it reminds me of Ditko and Romita too. I like it! Best of all, like I said, PAD's writing. Excellent issue. I can not wait to read more! I hope I can get my hands on the MK Spiderman issue by PAD and also the Amazing Spiderman issue too!! :)
DF2506
" The previews I've read of both issues were really good! "
Put me in the 'artwork isn't great' camp. Very interesting story, but the art doesn't quite feel right in places.
Pretty good, Peter. This is the first monthly Spidey book I’ve picked up with the intention of reading it regularly in like 15 years or so, and it takes some getting used to the notion of Peter being an Avenger, living in Stark Towers and having Cap know his identity (I was going to ask about the latter two, but your mention of his being an Avenger explains it). Tracer’s a good villain, but I coulda done without the orange parts of his costume, and the manner in which part of it was shaded with hatching, and the rest was not. For the most part, though, I’m glad Wieringo is the artist. He’s the only artist I have a sketch from, which is on my wall. (Rogue, incidentally.)
I do have a couple of questions:
When did he become an Avenger? Is he a regular member, and if so, is he in the Avenger titles? Does everyone in the team know his identity, or just Cap?
He’s a teacher, but he’s still taking photos for the Bugle? Why is this? Doesn’t his teaching job pay enough? I know that externally, it’s because that’s such a classical, traditional aspect of the character, but has there been an internal explanation given?
Thanks.
Iowa Jim: Sorry, don't buy it. I know this won't surprise you, but even as vague as you kept it, I think this is inappropriate for a title truly aimed to include the younger set.
Luigi Novi: Why? For all we know, MJ was giving Peter a massage. Or they were kissing. That’s bad for kids to see? Kids already know that men and women sleep in the same bed and cuddle and stuff. I certainly knew when I was a tyke that my parents didn’t have twin beds like on I Love Lucy. :-)
Iowa Jim: But it was unnecessary to use that setting to deliver that dialogue. Humorous, ironic, yes. But in an "all ages," not necessary. As "affectionate" scenes go, obviously it was as "safe" and "neurtal" as is possible. Having read two issues of Fallen Angel, I know the alternative, so I do give you credit for that. We will just have to disagree on the appropriateness of the page.
Luigi Novi: No one has argued that it was “necessary”. It was a choice. You then state that it was not “appropriate,” but you don’t state why. Can you elaborate on this?
A bullet doesn't exert any more force on the guy it hits than on the hand of the person firing the gun. It's just that all of that energy hits at the point of the bullet.
Huh. Is that true? I know it sort of makes sense with the whole "equal and opposite reaction" bit but it doesn't sound like a gun should even work were that the case.
Hey Tim, why don't people who fire pistols go flying off into car hoods like Will Smith shooting a Noisy Cricket?
The more I think about it, the more I decide that there could be a lot of emotional/physical reasons MJ would say things she doesn't really mean in those scenes with Peter.
I guess I can accept the 'spreading-out-of-force' explanation for the bullet...especially combined with the explanation given by someone else that the bullets would have to be slowed down due to the technology inserted that allows it to lock on someone. As a long time Trek fan, I know it's possible for fans to explain almost anything.
Ed.....MJ grabbed Peter's ear in one scene, but I don't recall the scene where she grabbed his 'peter'. (Or at least what I have generally heard referred to as a 'peter') Your mind must have been working overtime.
I don't think there was anything in the conversation between MJ and Peter in bed you wouldn't have heard between Mike and Carol Brady in bed. (Sure...details such as Mike didn't have superpowers, but you know what I mean.)
We wouldn't have seen Carol Brady in shadow the way we saw MJ. But what passes for all ages has changed since the 70s. I suspect the Disney Channel wouldn't have a problem filming it for one of their family movies. But I could be wrong.
Ah, never mind. Has to do with the different masses of the bullet and the gun/shooter.
Uh, I think there's a LOT more action in the Parker household than Mike and Carol ever had. Just a hunch...
I liked the issue. It's the first (new) Spidey comic I've read in the last few years, so I was glad of the recap at the start. The sex aspect caught me by surprise ("Oh, *that's* what they're doing"), but it didn't seem particularly graphic to me; in particular, I just read that last panel on page 2 as "contented sigh" rather than anything else.
As for the whole crossover thing, I'll get the next two issues of the other Spidey-titles (as written by PAD), and I'll be getting all the issues of FNSM (to avoid confusing my comic shop too much) - after that I'll decide whether to read the remaining issues. It's a bit of an unfortunate sequence (Hudlin before JMS), since I gave up on "Black Panther" because I couldn't understand it (after a 6 issue trial run), whereas I gave up on JMS because of the "Rising Stars" delays (which are no longer relevant). Ah well, wait and see, I guess.
I liked the sub-plot with the doctor, which made sense; it reminded me of the tailor who turned up in a JMS story a while back ("I do hero costumes on Mon/Wed/Fri and villain costumes on Tue/Thur/Sat"), although I don't know whether he's been seen since.
I also liked the Tai Chi bit. The basic premise seems sound, although I haven't done it myself (I bought a "teach yourself at home" video a few years back and couldn't get past the mysticism of "draw down the life force energies into your body" enough to take it seriously). I was glad to see MJ training with them, and this also reminded me of PAD's (too-short) run on "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles".
Regarding the bullets, I'm wondering how quickly they were supposed to be moving. Unless Tracer was really gabbling his words, it implies that the bullets were travelling fairly slowly, say at 1 metre per second. By contrast, normal walking speed is about 4 miles per hour, which is about 1.7 metres per second. So, they'd be annoying (and relentless), but not amazingly dangerous. Having said that, it is something of a genre convention that people can make huge speeches mid-leap (as mentioned in a Deadpool issue), so this may just be dramatic licence.
This links in to the issue of catching them. I don't have a problem with the idea of someone catching arrows (e.g. Xena, or Robin and Superboy in "Young Justice"), and I'd put these bullets at a similar threat level - they'd hurt if they hit you with the point, but less so if you grab them side-on. Similarly, thinking about playing cricket, the way to catch a ball (bare handed) is that you follow through, i.e. your hands start moving as soon as the ball touches them, and you can then slow it down, rather than it breaking your fingers. It seems reasonable that you could do a similar thing here.
I initially misread the scene with his hands, and thought that the bullet had burrowed into the same hand by itself (after seeing it resting on his glove), as part of Tracer's "self powered homing rockets" scheme, and I went back to re-read it after I saw other comments here. However, I don't consider that to be a fault of the writer/artist, since it all seemed much more obvious on my second reading, so that was just me not paying enough attention.
Anyway, all in all I'm happy, and I look forward to more issues to come.
PAD,
I apologize that I was not clear enough.
Sex between married people is the right setting.
Putting a scene of sex between married people in an "all ages" comic is not.
Obviously, you went to great pains to make it as vague as possible. It is completely in the mind of the reader. Any intelligent, mature reader of a normal mind would know that something "intimate" is going on between a husband and wife. But it is by implication.
Bottom line: It is obviously the principle of the thing. I think it is unnecessary. I also think in a comic book that is aiming for "all ages" it is inappropriate. The reason is because I value protecting the innocence of a child. That does not mean you wait until a kid is 21 to tell him or her about sex. But our culture goes too far the other way and ignores the need to protect a child's innoncence.
This comic does not overtly do so, but it does so in a way I think is unfortunate when seen from a bigger picture. You asked what I thought about the comic, and I told you. And I initially said my case in very concise terms without trying to run you down or say you are a pervert, etc., etc., since I know that is not the case. I think protecting innocence in a healthy way is something worth fighting for.
And with that I will drop the subject. I appreciate your work overall, I am just telling you what I think. Take it or leave it. It is up to you.
Iowa Jim
Iowa Jim
I liked this issue a lot, but I do agree with other posters who pointed out that the last scene between Peter and MJ reminded me too much of some 90's stuff.
I'm torn about whether I should continue reading Spider-Man or not though, since Quesada is again talking about "putting genies back in the bottle" and while he doesn't say it out loud, everyone knows he hates the Peter/MJ marriage and would love to get rid of it. Me, I like it a lot and have no interest in reading Spider-Man if they're planning to retcon it in the future. Sadly, I'm 99% sure this is the other genie he mentioned in the newsarama talk this Friday.
We'll, see I guess, I'll stick through this crossover and then decide what to do.
Why is child less "innocent" if they know about sex? Doesn't that imply that sex is something one should feel guilty about?
I'm all for protecting children, but the question always seems to be "from what?" I don't think my 1-year-old daughter Katherine particularly needs to know the graphic details of sex at this point in time, but I don't think that's what the issue was heading towards at all. If Katherine were reading that scene (and were older, more like 3-4 than 1), I suspect the conversation would go something like this:
"Daddy, what are they doing?"
"They're playing a game."
"Oh. 'Kay. Peter should really pay attention, then."
End of problem, so far as I see it.
Jim, I don't remember, so please just take this as an honest but clueless question: do you have children of your own? When I think of all the things I worry about when it comes to Katherine's health and well-being, running across an ambiguous depiction of married sex in a comic book is so far down the list as to border on Utopian. Obviously you don't feel that way, but I'm wondering how much of it is direct parental experience and how much is conjecture.
TWL
P.S. Does anyone else have the Monty Python "storytime" sketch in their heads at this point? "Old Ned the Sea Captain..." Maybe it's just me.
Tim,
Are you sure you aren't thinking about Old Nick, the Sea Captain? He was a rough tough jolly sort of fellow. He loved the life of the sea and he loved to hang out down by the pier where the men dressed as ladies...
(So no, it isn't just you :)
Bill,
Well, I'll be damned.
I was about to write "No, it's very definitely Old Ned", but I decided to actually check the "All the Words" book sitting on the shelf -- and it is in fact Old Nick.
I've heard it as Old Ned for 20+ years. Personally, I think Old Ned scans better, but I can't very well argue with the people who wrote the thing.
I have learned something this evening. Many thanks.
I'm glad it's not just me, though. Now to discuss Rumpletweezer...
TWL
"with a melon?"
Well, as long as you aren't upset. I know I HATE it when a quote I "remember" turns out to be different. I only posted becuase I'm always eager to quote Monty Python or Love & Death. I hope I didn't make you feel worse than the chicken at Kresgies.
Luigi Novi -
When did he become an Avenger?
When Marvel decided that the real Avengers need to be disbanded so they'd have an excuse to put Spider-Man and Wolverine in yet *another* montly title.
Iowa Jim -
The reason is because I value protecting the innocence of a child.
There's a big difference between 'innocence' and 'unnecessary sheltering a child from reality'.
Worse than the chicken at Kresgies ... well, life goes on.
TWL
thinking about wheat
One thing ...
Why didn't Spidey simply web the bullets? If his webbing can stop missiles, it can stop bullets. Or was he out of webbing and this was left out? Hmmm ... I need to go back and re-read ...
Wheat... lots of wheat... fields of
wheat... a tremendous amount of wheat...
All in all, a very strong issue. For those who want to whine about the whole crossover thing "as part of the crap from the '90s", well, first, sales were pretty damn good back then. It seems many of those who complain about things are stuck in the '90s themselves. I mean, this is the first major Spidey crossover in at least SEVEN YEARS. And it's being driven by three talented writers. And guess what? FNSM#1 sold out at my locak comic shop within two days, and the shop owner ordered comparable to what he would order on JMS Spidey or Ultimate Spidey. Which means. for those who are staying away because they've made up their minds before even reading the story, obviously PAD fans who haven't picked up the other Spidey titles bought it, and it is also attracting fans interested in the other two writers.
Everyone wins. Which is probably, you know, what Joe Q and everyone involved was thinking when they thought up the crossover.
PAD has a hit on his hands, and we should all be happy about that.
The "Helloooo Nurse" line completely sold me on this book. Loved Ringo's art too.
The StarWolf wrote:
Why didn't Spidey simply web the bullets? If his webbing can stop missiles, it can stop bullets. Or was he out of webbing and this was left out? Hmmm ... I need to go back and re-read ...
Can he even run out of webbing anymore, with the organic webshooters?
Very entertaining issue. I'm really looking foward to following this series. Your wit is perfect for Spider-Man and I see no reason for this run to not last as long as you first Hulk run did. Looking foward to the next issue.
For those who aren't reading the crossover, or all of the crossover, and are worrying what you might miss, and therefore not sure you will pick it up when the crossover ends, you can keep track of what's happening at Wikipedia or Spoilt!.
When I read the first pages I turned to the front of the book looking for the Comic Code of Approval (didn't find it), but I did think it was distasteful for an all ages book. I'm surprised the editor let it in there.
>When I read the first pages I turned to the front of the book looking for the Comic Code of Approval (didn't find it), but I did think it was distasteful for an all ages book. I'm surprised the editor let it in there.
The Comic Code isn't used by Marvel anymore, but wouldn't have prevented that scene from being used. I read the book and interpreted the scene as that of an affectionate wife comforting her husband. While sex is certainly a possibility, I didn't see it as any more likely than a good kiss between the two. Much like the Simpsons, anyone too young for this to be deemed "inappropriate" would have missed that interpretation/innuendo, etc completely.
Fred
"Putting a scene of sex between married people in an "all ages" comic is not."
I agree.
And where does it show that they're having sex or say they're having sex? My fourteen year old read the sequence, I asked her what was going on in that page, and she said, "They were snuggling."
It was not a scene of sex. It was a scene of being people affectionate. Anything beyond that is in the mind of the beholder and comments on them, not on the work.
Perhaps the sales of the book should be restricted to kids, since they couldn't possibly see anything untoward in the sequence. That way no filthy-minded adults need be distressed.
PAD
"All in all, a very strong issue. For those who want to whine about the whole crossover thing "as part of the crap from the '90s", well, first, sales were pretty damn good back then."
So let me get this straight Jerome, those of us who would like to read an issue of Spider-Man, a story told in ONE issue by ONE writer is a whiner. That anyone who'd prefer NOT to have to purchase other Spidey titles written by writers we DON'T like to follow a story that's spread into issues written by someone we enjoy is a whiner. That we can't have this preferable opinion.
And who the hell said anything about sales?
"It seems many of those who complain about things are stuck in the '90s themselves."
You lost me there Jerome. I stopped buying and reading most mainstream books in the 90's because of acts like this. Crossovers were just part of the junk (IMO) like multiple covers, poor artwork and lousy writing that sums up the 90's to me.
"And it's being driven by three talented writers."
Your opinion of course, but after reading many of JMS books I'd say that his work shows that he's far from talented.
"And guess what? FNSM#1 sold out at my locak comic shop within two days, and the shop owner ordered comparable to what he would order on JMS Spidey or Ultimate Spidey."
"Which means. for those who are staying away because they've made up their minds before even reading the story"
If the story means that you have to buy 6 other books other than this title, some of which is written by a "talent" who's work you can't stand, just to follow a story, we're not staying away because of the story, but because of the way it's being sold to the reader.
If Peter or some other writer's work I respect and enjoy were telling this story in one book, I'd buy it.
As I mentioned before I'm sure I'll try this book out starting with issue #5, but not now during this insipid crossover.
RJM, I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on the talent of JMS, and on the idea that this crossover is "insipid". Now, had this started as one of those megacrossovers that would have involved every major character in the MU, and a few from outside, and Peter had wound up with an alien symbiont (not symbiote - common error, really) as a costume, then maybe I'd agree that you had a point.
In this case, the entire crossover is three whole titles, all of which revolve around the same cast of characters. I'd hope that anything permanent gets mentioned in any other titles Spidey might appear in later, but there's no need to ring in anyone not on the main list. And the major threats to Peter and his family aren't the sorts of things that can be easily overcome with simple superhuman strength, superhuman agility, and massive amounts of silk (synthetic or not). That's why I'm interested to follow this up - if Peter's confronted by any of his usual villains, I already know how he's going to defeat them. How's he going to defeat some mysterious disease, and an immortal hunter who's stronger and faster than he is? Especially when he's too stubborn to call in his new teammates when he needs them? I don't really know - yet. :)
Greg, what's "distasteful" about a scene between a man and his wife, both of them main characters and important to the story, that reinforces the idea that they love each other very much? Especially when the sex is merely implied, and will be missed by anyone not looking for it?
(That, of course, leads into the question of why sex should be seen as "distasteful" at all, but I think we'll leave that one aside for now...)
"Why didn't Spidey simply web the bullets? If his webbing can stop missiles, it can stop bullets. Or was he out of webbing and this was left out? Hmmm ... I need to go back and re-read ..."
I thought MJ used up all of Peter's webbing around page 2.
Oh, you mean the "other" webbing. Hmm, maybe that's what the Other is all about....
Darrik
(just waiting to be banned)
This issue is seriously amazing, which i know isn't the proper adj. But I can't very well call it "Friendly" now can i?? Absolutely great story though. I will be looking forward to this for as long as you put it out PAD.
perhaps settling the "All Ages" argument may be that Marvel apparently doesn't consider this series "All Ages".
At least the October solicitations labelled it as T+ (Teens and up).
One other thought on the "page two" controversy - Neil Gaiman wrote an interesting thing about this in his blog the other day:
I would say that it's astonishing how much people's imaginations will do for you, which is to say, ever since I was accused of writing explicitly pornographic sex in Stardust, I realised that people can always fill in the blanks with far more detail than you think you've provided. So you can probably do more by writing less than you imagine.
Please, PLEASE, do not let The Other be a clone.
Please?
I realised that people can always fill in the blanks with far more detail than you think you've provided.
Perhaps part of the problem here is that some of us are so used to the innuendo that PAD writes into some of his others works (New Frontier in particular), that when you have a scene such as the one in FNSM #1, well, it's easy to 'interpret' what is going on.
So, I say this without being demeaning PAD, but if you think we all have 'dirty minds', perhaps the problem may be the fact that such a scene is there that can be so *easily* misinterpreted.
PAD
Just a little question, why didn't the bullets slow down? I would have thought that bullets would have slowed down after chaseing Spidey half way across town.
Temple, I don't know if you've ever heard of an experimental weapon from the early '60s called the GyroJet. It was an incredibly lightweight firearm, in which the slugs were basically little solid-fuel rockets. The problem came in that the spin on the rounds was to be provided by angled thrust, but the machining techniques used were insufficiently precise. The accuracy suffered as a result. A few of the GyroJet assault rifles were used in 'Nam, and overall satisfaction with them was lower than with the original version of the M-16 (which is really saying something). A few of the pistols also made it out, into the hands of collectors.
I'm thinking Tracer has essentially adapted the GyroJet system, combining it with more-modern manufacturing, and comic-book-level guidance systems...
>Just a little question, why didn't the bullets slow down? I would have thought that bullets would have slowed down after chaseing Spidey half way across town.
Since Spidey was able to keep out of their range for a significant amount of time and is not faster than a speeding bullet, I assumed that they had slowed down.
Fred
Jerome--
I mean, this is the first major Spidey crossover in at least SEVEN YEARS. And it's being driven by three talented writers.
It is?
Y'mean they replaced JMS & Hudlin on the other 2/3 of the story? Woo-hoo! I might just have to check it out, after all. ;-)
But, seriously, personal tastes being just that, one person's "three talented writers" is another person's "one talented writer and two guys whose work puts me to sleep on a good day."
Nytwyng,
Sorry. Part of what gets me annoyed is that those who supposedly support PAD's work are sitting this out.
Why not even pick up all three books this month and then wait. The money you save on the next two months will offset the extra expenditure this month.
Also, anybody think that with PAD, you know, working together with these two guys so many of you don't seem to like, well, have you thought with them working together the story may be worth picking up?
And few important stories in Spidey history were simoply one-and-done, anyway. Check "The Night Gwen Stacy Died". They actually made you wait until the next issue to find out what happens to the Green Goblin! Bastards!
Jerome--
Part of what gets me annoyed is that those who supposedly support PAD's work are sitting this out.
Why not even pick up all three books this month and then wait. The money you save on the next two months will offset the extra expenditure this month.
For me, it's not about "expenditure." (Except, possibly, the expenditure of time in reading the work of writers who don't entertain me in the least.)
It's about not seeing much point in reading 1/3 of a story if I know going in that I won't be reading the other 2/3 (including the finale).
Also, anybody think that with PAD, you know, working together with these two guys so many of you don't seem to like, well, have you thought with them working together the story may be worth picking up?
While anything is possible, I'm not sure how their working with someone whose work I enjoy will suddenly make me enjoy their installments.
After all, PAD contributed to JMS's magnum opus, Babylon 5, but that still didn't make me like the series any better. So, I'm not certain what would make me think that their contributing to the same Spider-Man story would make me like JMS's work in comics any better this time around. If anything, it seems more likely that it would only serve to emphasize what I don't like about his (or Hudlin's) work, seeing it side-by-side with PAD's work.
Oh yeah bye the way I f'n love the story so far.
I just got part 2 PAD you rule. Also just a note off subject I CAN'T WAIT FOR FALLEN ANGEL TO RETURN. Anybody out there who could customize a Fallen Angel Action figure in scale with Marvel LegendsDC Direct figures?
Peter thanks for all the things you do!
You can count me in on the "not picking the book up ever" camp.
I was REALLY looking forward to this book. Really. I figured David and Wieringo were a great match, and the book would be a must read.
Then I found out about "The Other," and it took the wind out of my sails. I had dropped Amazing because I wasn't enjoying it any more, so what I thought would be a replacement was going to be mired in continuity right off the bat.
So, I figured I'd start with issue #4 (later #5, when Marvel announced the month of epilogues.) And then, time passed, and I got interested in other titles, and, well... I just kinda moved on.
At some point in the last couple of months I decided that Ultimate Spider-Man was enough Spidey for me, and I'm going to pass on FNSM, and concentrate on X-Factor and Fallen Angel, instead.
I'm sure it'll be good, and I hope it does well, but my budget is stretched thin enough as it is, so I've got to make some choices.
Anyone not picking this book up is not only crazy but also has absolutely no faith in PAD.
Read just his issues or read the whole thing either way I guarantee PAD will make sure we all know what's up. Have a little faith in the best writer in comics today. Once again thanks for maintaining my faith in the comics industries ability to produce quality.
Temple,
I have tremendous faith in PAD.
It's JMS and Hudlin that I have absolutely no faith in.
I'm sure PAD will make sure we all know what's up.
Which is why I'm starting with #5. He can let me know what's up after the crossover's done.
So, I have more than "a little faith" in the best writer in comics today. But, despite letters sent to Brevoort and Quesada, the only voices of displeasure in this format that Marvel will truly hear and potentially heed are those of the dead presidents.