PeterDavid.net

Oh god, I missed the season opener of West Wing?! Sister Mary Joseph, how the hell did that happen? Am I screwed for next week, or should I be able to pick up on things ok?

Dammit, I started watching WW, and then flipped to "The Half-Ton Man". Put my self-defined weight issues in a wee bit of perspective. I do hope they replay it, however.

Peter,

Did you notice how Toby seemed to be overly effusive (for him) in being invited to the dedication? I think him teaching at Columbia is what happens to him after he reveals he was the leak.

Oh, and the way the President greeted Charlie was more like renewing acquaintances with a past associate than a son in law, so I don't think Charlie and Zoey hook up.

Josh is a bit of a cypher to figure out. He's not with the President it would seem or else he'd probably be arriving with him to the dedication. And while she wasn't in the inner circle of the Bartlet administration, I was bummed that Donna wasn't there. I guess the seven long years we've waited to find out if Donna and Josh finally hook up will not pan out in the Shipper's favor.

And how about Josh's rather cold flat refusal of Donna getting a job in the present day?

Dang. I guess it's possible for people to have differing opinions, but--as the saying goes, did we see the same "Lost" season debut?

First, you simply have to acknowledge the brilliance of that opening shot. It was breathtaking. Second, I do think Jack's backstory in the ep connects very closely to his experience on the island. It explains, in part, why he's so reluctant to become the de facto leader of the island--his feeling of compassion for fellow human beings is a relatively recent thing, and therefore he's consumed with self doubt even when everyone else automatically sees a hero. Plus, by placing Desmond directly in the middle of Jack's moment of personal epiphany in this way, it makes Jack's confrontation with Desmond on the island all that much more fraught with meaning and dramatic tension.

And also, Kate looked hot.

LOST: Did anyone else thing that the girl that Jack operated on was the one that he was going to eventually marry later on? She's got Florence Nightinggale Effect written all over her.

WEST WING: As cold as it seemed, I can understand why Josh could not offer Donna a job on the Santos campaign. There's no way that Donna could say "I didn't really mean all that bad stuff about Santos" and retain any degree of credibility as a spokesman for the campaign. I think it would be less of a problem to hire her to work in Santos' actual administration (assuming they won) but I freely admit my ignorance about how such a senario would play out in reality.

President Zod - At least he'd be honest about being a dictator & wanting to conquer.

West Wing - Am I mistaken or was Mrs. Bartlet also not at the library opening. And is there a reason that Josh is the only one who didn't look like he aged?

BTW - not to be a killjoy, but Don Adams died today at 82
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050926/ap_on_en_tv/obit_adams;_ylt=AgW17A2Ua713BEJjkH.UJS6s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-

LOST: I've gotta disagree with PAD here...I thought this was an outstanding episode. It's not the best episode of the series thus far, nor probably is it in the top 5, but I was blown away by it. From it's surreal and compelling opening scenes to the character drama, it had my interest from start to finish.

Yeah, I think Jack's flashback here was weaker than previous flashbacks. From the first few seconds of the flashback scene with Jack and the other runner, I had predicted where the ending of the episode. But it was executed really well. Lost is one of those shows that people online can discuss and debate in great detail. For example, the patient that Jack didn't save had the last name "Rutherford," which is Shannon's last name, and the whole bit about Jack's patient being unable to walk parallels nicely with the whole story involving Locke, plus Walt's brief appearance, when played backward, indicates he is giving some warning about pressing a button. It's a really fun show to watch, discuss, and dissect...I loved it.

WEST WING: I missed the opening 20 minutes or so, and thus it's unfair for me to try to review the episode, but I did catch the last 40 minutes. I abandoned "The West Wing" in the middle of last season, not because the show became badly written, but merely because the show was evolving into something I had no interest in seeing. I don't need to see a new Presidential campaign storyline, nor do I want to. That's not a remark about Smits' Santos or Alda's Vinick, because I think they're both great characters.

That said, I did give the show another chance to sell me, and I have to say, while I was impressed with the writing, it just confirmed that the show has evolved into the something that I have little interest in. I adore these characters, from CJ to Josh to Toby to Donna, Leo, Bartlet, and Charlie. But it's just not the show I fell in love with anymore. It's very well written, with the same characters as before, but it's embarked on dual storylines that aren't my thing.

I'm not completely giving up on the show...I imagine I'll keep watching, just because they've now scheduled the show at a time where there's nothing else to compete with as far as my viewing habits are concerned.

Not to be a contrary little twerp (actually at 6'4" 230 I don't know that "little" applies) But I have to go with Peter about the Lost premiere. Juding by the beginning, I thought I was going to see something really revelatory, but there was just too much focus on Jack and this exercise nut in the hole. I wanna know more about what happened to Walt, and the rest of the Not-Gonna-End-Up-Like Gilligan crew of the raft, and I think the I'm-Not-The-Doctor-My-Dad-Was(And-That's-A-GOOD-Thing) angle was reasonably well explored last season.

Wish I had stuck with Charmed. Seen a few on TNT and they're better than most. But then, with a 4 year old that NEEDS to sleep with us (don't worry, once he's asleep he gets put in his room) I don't get to watch much regular TV. Although, anybody else see Supernatural and think "My Lord! Freakylinks without the wry ironic sense!"

WEST WING: I'm not familiar with the writer of last night's debut episode, but she's certainly managed to come closer to nailing Sorkin's style than anyone else.

I believe the episode was written by Debora Cahn, and yeah, I recall that the episodes she's written in previous seasons do manage to be as close to Sorkin-esque as we've gotten post-Sorkin. Hers is a name to look for in the credits; if she's the writer, there's reason to be hopeful. ;-)

Did you notice how Toby seemed to be overly effusive (for him) in being invited to the dedication? I think him teaching at Columbia is what happens to him after he reveals he was the leak.

Hey, who says he's teaching at Columbia? He could be living in [b]Colombia[/b] for all we know at this point! ;-) (Though Toby's living in either New York City or South America would be interersting given his twins' mother's seeming reluctance to live anywhere but her district.)

West Wing: I thought the flash-forward was pretty pointless. It was like the producers were sucking up to the show's longtime viewers to get them to keep watching. "Look! Bartlet doesn't die in office! And don't you want to find out how CJ and Danny got back together? Huh? Huh?"

I'm still wary of how the security leaky storyline will get resolved. Would it really be in character for CJ or Toby to leak the information, force the President's hand, and then lay low and hope that it all blows over? It seems like either one would have it out with the President and then, upon failing to receive satisfaction, they'd resign and then give the information to the press out of principle. Either way I think the producers need to stop jerking us around.

But it was good to see Josh act capable and Leo-like, finally! In the last half of last season, his job seemed to be to give the Congressman exactly the wrong advice and be surprised, chagrined and impressed when Santos did the exact opposite.

I'm looking forward to this season. Either way, there'll be a new administration, so clearly, there's no reason to expect that anybody's job is safe...

I gotta disagree with Peter on Lost. I LOVED it. It was a great season opener. Especially the teaser (I couldn't believe it! Wow. Definitly not what I thought was in the hatch) and the end of the episode, but everything in between was really interesting too. One of Lost's best episodes, imo. MUCH better then the season 1 finale, which I was disappointed in a bit.

As for West Wing, while I liked the beginning flashforward, I thought the rest of the episode was just ok. Of course, I haven't seen West Wing in a long time, so I was out of the loop on some of the character developments. I was also disappointed that the episode didn't actually take place three years later. Personally, I think it would have been cooler if the show had skipped past all this election stuff and revealed the new president. Would have been more interesting I think...

Anyway, Lost was great! Definitly one of my favorite season openers, if not my favorite. Of course, I liked NCIS and House openers quiete a bit too!

DF2506
" I was disappointed with Numbers opening episode though and Cold Cases. CSI's wasn't as great as the finale either (though there were some interesting bits in it). And I'm enjoying alot of the new shows (mainly the sci-fi/supernatural shows, though I like My Name is Earl as far as comedys go)."

West Wing:
> Would it really be in character for CJ or Toby to leak the information, force the President's hand, and then lay low and hope that it all blows over?

Certainly not Toby. For C.J., however, it is completely in character: recall 'Women of Qumar' when she took her personal outrage to the briefing room, or '7A WF 83429' where she surreptitiously disobeyed a direct order in order to honor an agreement she had made with a reporter about leaking the Shareef story. Of all the staff, C.J. has consistently shown a high level of idealism, coupled with a willingness to break rules when she disagrees with them and no history of owning up to mistakes.

Contrast that, for example, with Toby's offering of his resignation when he felt he had screwed up, or the many times he vehemently expressed his disagreement with the president.

That's why it irritates me that C.J. is being played up as the leaker (since it's therefore obvious that she won't really be). So far, the only other potential culprit we've been shown is Toby; unless we get other targets next week, I'm going to bet on it being him, despite that being completely out of character.

-- Brian.

LOST - I'm not entirely sure about the Season Opener. It was quite creepy, and answered the hatch question, but it did lack some kind o' kick. Then again, it was a Season Opener, and a Jack show.

I did find the flashback to be very important though, because we've now established that Sara--and that is the future Mrs. Jack Shepard--believes Jack worked a miracle on her. And Jack may just think a miracle happened. Contrast this with Jack giving Locke crap the entire time about Destiny--it's a word he's particularily fixated on. I think this flashback is setting up the backbone of Jack's "man of science" posture: it's not because he's Scully, but because he had a miracle go sour on him, and he refuses to put himself on the line for that sort of faith again. It also plays into the Jack-Locke antagonism, which otherwise looks rather foolish.

Also we established for sure that Hurley was in a psyche ward. Now I'm dyin' to see what brought that about.

"West Wing - Am I mistaken or was Mrs. Bartlet also not at the library opening."

Mrs. Bartlett was busy being a doctor on another network. :)

I hope Stockard Channing will be able to find the time to drop in on The West Wing occasionally.

By the way, if anyone wants to see the season opener of LOST again, they'll be showing it right before the new episode on Wednesday.

Neil

Rat said: "...I think the I'm-Not-The-Doctor-My-Dad-Was(And-That's-A-GOOD-Thing) angle was reasonably well explored last season."

I didn't think that was the angle being shown here. This is the first time (that I remember) we've gotten a glimpse of what kind of doctor Jack's dad really was closer to the height of his career, and in fact, it shows that there were definitely things that Jack's dad did better than he did -- bedside manner, for example.

I was a little annoyed at the way this episode seemed stretched out, but I didn't think that the flashbacks were pointless.

Didn't watch West Wing, but reading the posts here, I'd offer another solution to the leak: Donna? Wouldn't she still have informants in the White Hosue to get info? Wouldn't that also explain the cold reception from Josh?

Charmed: Never watched it. Probably never will at this point.

Lost: No spoilers, but I think the island is some sort of experiment gone bad. Halucinogens, specifically. That would explain Shannon's vision of Walt. Jack's vision of his Dad. Given that, the hallucinogens are probably stronger in the "work-out bunker." So I doubt that actually is Desmond (the guy runing the stadium with Jack.) Jack just sees him as Desmond.

West Wing: at the moment, it seems like the Democrates will win without a problem. If you follow only one campaign, then it seems like there will be no chance or thrill of them loosing since all the investment will be just with the democrats.

Re: West Wing

Of course, Toby is the leak. Doesn't anyone remember that his brother was a shuttle astronaut. What WW staffer is going to be more sympathetic to the plight of the trapped astronauts or more in a position to find out NASA secrets via unorthodox methods.

It's the difference in this show since Wells took over from Sorkin. Sorkin assumed a level of intelligence with the viewer that Wells' doesnt (and this storyline has already been done back in season 3 with Platt and Stockard Channing.) Wells is also following the LAW AND ORDER model of mirroring real life events (i.e. the Rove leak accusations) which may be due to the fact that Dee Dee Myers, et al are no longer consulting for the show).

Regarding Lost, I'm constantly amazed at the low-tech, or rather old-tech, of the Others: They've got this chain-of-smoke monster, they're able to cure spinal injuries, crash a jetliner, control lotteries... and yet everything we've seen from them looks like it's old and worn out -- 25 year old computers, a leaky-looking bucky-dome, LPs, scruffy old sailors. I was expecting more of a Dr. Evil mod underground lair.

The thing that my wife noted about West Wing is that none of Bartlett's staff ended up working for the new administration. She thought that was a sign that the republicans won. I'm not so sure, staff turnover is pretty high.

I don't think workout guy in the Hatch IS one of the Others. He's been (apparently)locked down there for 20 years or so. I'd say HE's running the show on the island. The Others are just other castaways (like Delenn/Danielle Rosseau.) They've just been there for 16 years, so they're a bit crabby.

I liked both _Lost_ and _West Wing_. I just hope that when all is said and done with _Lost_ there is a believeable, rational explanation for all the various coincidences (Desmond being the guy in the bunker on the island; Locke working for the box company Hurley owns; etc). If _all_ these things turn out to be _just_ coincidences, then everything will collapse like a house of cards.

Re _The West Wing_ and the flash-forward. I'm going to guess the president arriving at the Bartlett Library dedication is Santos. I base this on two thing- the _very_ brief glimpse we get of the president shows us a man with dark hair, not gray. Second, when Josh comes in, and says that the president is here, it suggests that he is acting as the president's advance man, letting the dignitaries know that the program is about to begin.

Of course, I doubt the actor in the limo was actually Jimmy Smits, but just some extra, since we'd never see much of him. Why? The producers might not want to back themselves in a corner (both with the audience and the actors) this early in the season as to whom the next president will be. I mean, if Alan Alda's Arnold Vinick turns out to be more popular with viewers, they might begin to reconsider whom the president will be.

It also depends, of course, on whether Smits and/or Alda have long-term contracts. If only one of them does, he’s likely to be the president; if both do, it could go either way.

Similarly, if Santos _isn’t_ the president in three years, Josh could just have been running late, and seen the motorcade arriving.

Possible SPOILER WARNING

Both Richard Schiff and Dule Hill have indicated that they're leaving _The West Wing_ this year; Hill is doing just five episodes. I'm not sure how many Schiff will do. Since both are leaving anyway, that opens up the possibility that either Toby or Charlie could be the leak. My guess is that it'll be Toby. The character has more of a personal stake in the matter; and there was something in Schiff's body language in one scene where the matter came up (if I remember rightly, the one with Toby, C.J., Leo and Josh).

END Possible SPOILER WARNING

On a slightly off topic note, I've now watched two episodes of _Bones_, which co-stars David Boreanaz. What puzzles me is _why_ is name is not in the opening credits.

Also, _Supernatural_ has gotten off to a good start.

Rick

Why _his_ name is not in the opening credits.

Rick

Boreanaz's name *is* in the Bones opening credits. It's on at the same time as Emily Deschanel, on the opposite side of the screen. (I think he's at top right and she's at bottom left; not sure though.) I missed it too at first, but I had it on tape and rewinded; it's definitely there.

Boreanaz' agent needs to talk to the guy doing the credits sequence for Bones. I think his name gets overlooked due to bad placement in the extreme upper right corner, and the bad contrast of the white text versus a mostly white background. I read about the issue here first, and **still** missed his name when watching the episode on tape.

Lost may flame out this season. I'm going to see it through to the end of this season though.

Guy in the hole wasn't set up that well. My wife and I knew that he was down there as soon as he said his "see you in another life" line in the flashback. The ending wasn't a shock to us at all and just came off as kinda strange.

We were a bit ticked about the season ender being all about no answers and more questions. We were even more ticked about the first show of this season being about no answers and stranger questions. Lost needs to start handing out a few good answers that set up the next questions soon or it's going to start seeing its fan base drop off week after week by mid season.

Did anyone else notice that the huge "Quarintine" sign on the hatch was for people in it to see and not go out?

The really important question here is about Jack walking around in the hole. Was I the only one who, due to the set design, the color patterns and the retro computer banks, thought that Jack was going to turn a corner and walk into a mock up of S.H.A.D.O.W. HQ filled with a bunch of lipsincing aliens? Don't worry, my wife didn't get that either.

My problem with the notion of Tobey being the leak is that the MOMENT C.J. is under suspicion, the Tobey that I've known for five years comes clean. Now is it possible they're writing him out of character? Sure. Do people sometimes act in a manner contrary to their established pattern? Sure. Nevertheless, when push comes to shove, I see Tobey squaring off against Bartlet on a matter of morals and saying, "Yes, I did this, and I'll take whatever consequences there are" before he'd risk C.J. being hung out to dry.

And if that woman in the Jack flashback is supposed to be his future wife, okay, I see the significance of it. That still doesn't change my belief that the "You!" moment should have been, at most, at the station break.

PAD

The woman in the flashback is Jack's future wife (I only know this because it's actually on the 'Lost' website).

Re the Boreanaz credit: I'll have to watch for that tonight.

By the way, the placement of one actor's name in the lower left and another in the upper right has been done before- in film. _The Towering Inferno_, I believe, was one such example (though there have probably been others before and since). This placement essentially give both actors equal top billing. In the case of _Bones_, it would read as Deschanel and Boreanaz if read from left to right; and as Boreanaz and Deschanel if read from top to bottom.

Rick

P.S. who knows, maybe _Bartlett_ was the leak. Just as Nixon was really Deep Throat, despite what recent "revelations" told us. Think about it, Nixon had this thing about maintaining law and order. Clearly someone with such an outlook would want to make people aware of the illegal activities taking place in the Nixon White House.

The woman in the flashback is Jack's future wife (I only know this because it's actually on the 'Lost' website

And I noticed Julie Bowen's name in the credits, and she was his fiance in the other episode

David

Re: President Zod -- way too honest; he'd never make it past the first primary. Besides, he can't run for president; he was not born on US soil. Unless Governor Terminator gets that problem out of the way before 2008.

It was hard to recognize her with her face all injured-up, but that was indeed Jack's future/past wife. In last season's flashbacks, we saw their wedding and reception, and she made a speech about how Jack promised to fix her after the accident, so that she could finally dance at her wedding. Not sure what happens between the wedding and the death of Jack's father, but Jack mentions in the bar before the flight in Sydney that he's no longer married.

>>>
My problem with the notion of Tobey being the leak is that the MOMENT C.J. is under suspicion, the Tobey that I've known for five years comes clean.

Right, exactly. This is the single staffer who could be counted on to confront the President, often at risk to his continued employment, and after the assassination attempt, he was the guy who insisted that the Secret Service not take the fall for his own order that the President enter and exit buildings in the open air. In a Sorkin season, Toby would insist that the lives of the astronauts are more important than the political fallout, he would have it out with Bartlet right in the Oval Office, he'd resign, and then he'd drive straight from the White House to the CNN studios and speak on the record. He has penchants both for altruism and self-inflicted misery...it's Josh's fantasy!

But the biggest change in the post-Sorkin West Wing is that none of these staffers really talk to one another or work as a team. Nowadays, the characters all shut themselves up inside their own little offices. Josh being sneaky and not caring a whole lot about the repercussions beyond his own four walls isn't terribly inconsistent with the "new" West Wing...which is why, for me, the series only got interesting again late last season, when all of the action was taking place on the campaign trail.

On Who Becomes President -- money's on Santos, only because it allows the producers to keep old castmembers. But I do acknowledge that (a) the per-season budget got slashed this season, and axing all of the longstanding cast (with their annual pay bumps) makes financial sense; (b) the producers bothered to hire "real" actors to play Vinick's staff, not unknown faces with no real track record, and finally (c) who says that the dark-haired man coming out of the limo was Santos? It coulda been a member of his protection detail, right?

WW:
Ok, I was so ready for the new season to begin and it was a good episode considering how last year's season was pretty dull.

So who will it be Arnie (Alan Alda) or Santos (Jimmie Smits.)? I'm pissed that it wasn't finalized in this episode but oh well, they'll wanna drag it out to keep us watching. I think it'll be Santos because where the hell will the rest of the cast go since they all work for a Dem prez.?

I personally liked the beginning where they took it forward three years, but damn what a tease:

CJ and Danny married? (And btw, last year I was sure she's the leak and this kinda hints that she might have been. But now I'm not so sure. Kate? Maybe, but I think she's too much a part of the secret government world to give up secret info. to anyone. They make it look like it could be her too....as well as Toby.)

Damn, Charlie without Zoey? Hmmm, I hope not. I like them together. Of course Will fits in good as a congressman. I don't care much about his character so that's fine.

At the end of that scene they blurred the current POTUS getting out of the limo...but they sure made it look like it was a tall dark-haired man getting out (Smits). (Course they could be trying to throw us off and easily explain it away with it being someone else getting out first.)

The rest of the ep.?

We see Leo now has a place (VP). Josh? Oh yes Chief of Staff, exaclty where he should be. But I kept screaming at the TV "Where the hell is Donna"?! (I just know she's gonna be Deputy Cheif of Staff.) My psyhic abilities musta been kicking in because she thought it was a good position for her too. And Josh does exactly what I knew he would do. He tells her "no way".

Josh to Donna:

"You think I don't miss you everyday?" (or something to that effect) which is the real reason he didn't hire her.

Small scene but emotional.

She's perfect for the job btw, since Josh taught her so well, so I'm thinking she IS gonna end up with it, despite the fact she was spouting off for the enemy's camp last season, (Josh's excuse for not hiring her in that position.)

Hopefully they can keep it up and rise above the last couple season duldrums.

And how about Josh's rather cold flat refusal of Donna getting a job in the present day?

Again, didn't think it was cold at all. It was exactly what I thought he would do.

And while we're at it.....

Who saw the season ender of Battlestar Galactica the other night?

Who wants money on the idea that they'll get thenmselves out of this plot twist by making the new Cain another undercover Cylon?

"Who saw the season ender of Battlestar Galactica the other night?

Who wants money on the idea that they'll get thenmselves out of this plot twist by making the new Cain another undercover Cylon?"

I don't think so. I think the whole point of the Pegasus Command is to show that humans are capable of pretty vile things, as are the Cylons. But that the Cylons are not humanity's only enemy.

Instead of asking about who's leaving the West Wing, is there anyone left of the original cast who's under a long-term contract? I mean, are any of them under a multi-season agreement right now, or could the show conceivably end with this season? I have a bad feeling about this move to Sunday nights.

NBCS promo for the premiere talked of promise of a new leader and as they said that they show footage of allison janney with alan alda
so maybe it is santos
but they are hinting vinnick
any chance they might do their own version of the florida debacle with santos coming out on top?

And the Pegasus Command = Cylons angle is too obvious; I think the point about humanity sometimes being its own worst, petty, vile enemy is well-taken. Plus, it's interesting to me how the arrival of the Pegasus hardliners puts Adama's actions and command style into a kindler, gentler perspective. I think in terms of plot, it'll go down a lot like the orginal series, with the Pegasus going off to fight the war on its own terms, still out there as a potential ally/threat in the future. I think in terms of television production, it'll give them a chance to add and delete some cast members and new technology elements (anyone else wonder how the Pegasus got around the computer network problem in its ongoing engagements with the toasters?). And maybe they'll move the VP's story along when he frees the abused Cylon prisoner from Pegasus, whether that's through physical or terminal means.

And was anyone else rankled when the admiral welcomed the Galactica back into the Colonial fleet, like the Pegasus alone was the fleet and Galactica and the rest of the ships were not?

Incidentally, when I ask myself who will become the next President on The West Wing, I conclude it all hinges on the ratings and whether NBC wants to continue renewing the show.

Here's my logic: John Wells is infamous for milking his series. ER is the best example...it just started its 12th season. If NBC shows interest in continuing the show, Wells would be more likely to have Vinick win the election, so he can sweep in massive cast changes in the hopes of spurring interest in the show, a la ER and Law and Order.

At the same time, if NBC is privately telling Wells to wrap it up, then it's more likely that the show will come full circle and we'll see Santos elected, with Josh becoming Chief of Staff and Leo becoming VP.

That's what I believe will ultimately determine the fate of the election on the show. Does NBC foresee this show going on for a few more years with a new, revitalized cast and different perspective, or would NBC rather the show close up shop?

"And was anyone else rankled when the admiral welcomed the Galactica back into the Colonial fleet, like the Pegasus alone was the fleet and Galactica and the rest of the ships were not?"

Nah, not really. It fits the command type and the situation. Don't you think it would have been odder sounding if an admiral asked an underling if they could join the fleet?

We were very behind in Lost and managed to watch the two-part finale, then the season premiere, so I didn't get the annoyance of waiting for months. I also didn't feel like things were dragged out too long. Like a Bendis story, seeing big chunks of the story in a short period of time is a lot more satisfying than the episode installments.
I found the premiere quite satisfying.

When we saw Jack's wife, Sarah, before at their wedding, Jack's saving of her was pretty much the basis for their relationship and his reputation as a doctor. At this point we see Jack as the man of science who doesn't believe any of the supernatural stuff (or at least he won't admit it). Locke is his opposite, the man of faith. But then we see that Jack's defining moment in the old life is not of science but of faith. That flashback makes us rethink exactly what Jack believes in. Plus it adds to the mystery of Desmond. Since the flashback is from only a few years ago, if he's the guy in the hatch, how long as he been there? Lots of little things to think about.

Thank goodness for DVR - I had forgotten about the premiere, but it did it automatically for me.

As for the remainder of the episode, lots of really good stuff, including the interesting notion that their "polling" regarding Santos matches up with my own perception: A nice enough guy to go and knock a few beers back with, but you're not sure you'd want to vote for him. Then again, it was enough to get Bush elected--I'm sorry, inserted into office--in the real world, so maybe that'll be enough.

At this point in the show I paused the playback and said to my wife: "But that's exactly how the last few elections have been decided." We ran down the last few elections, and the most personable nearly always won:

Bush/Kerry
Bush/Gore (okay, Gore won the popular)
Clinton/Dole
Clinton/Bush-41/Perot
Bush-41/Dukakis
Reagan/Mondale
Reagan/Carter
Carter/Ford

What rankled for me with Cain was when her Raptor landed in Galactica's bay, and she stepped out without so much as a "Permission to come aboard, Commander." Even Roslin gave him that - and she said she's not familiar with military protocols.

Linking back to topic (sort of), I was kind of disappointed to learn that one of the wilder speculations about the hatch on Lost wouldn't be used - the idea that the hatch was in the top of the Galactica. :)

I understand the top-down logic about who's joining who's fleet, but I guess my thought would be it probably didn't need to be said in the situation at all, and Jonathan's point about her lapse in protocal about asking for permission to board another's ship, regardless of rank, was an oversight, too. Honestly, they should have included that and excluded the rejoining the fleet comment, and I'd have been fine with it. Of course, I don't think we're supposed to like her, so I imagine they were trying to hammer home the arrogance factor there.

Re: Galactica. I dunno, this show is pretty tightly scripted, with a lot of subtlety thrown in. My wife swears she saw Adama give a small smile at Boomer last episde, right before he said "throw this thing back in the brig," suggesting that's he's personally thawing to her, but understands the fleet isn't ready to trust the Cylons, so he publicly treats her like a toaster.

I don't think there's much about RoCain's actions or words that weren't given lots of thought for this episode.

Bobb & Jonathan: I think we're in agreement then that they were cranking up the arrogance aspect, which is fine. Should be interesting to see what they do with it.

Abby's name gets dropped in the flash forward (she wants a better picture of CJ and Danny's child).

Donna is in no way qualified to be Deputy COS. She's a secretary. She scheduled his appointments and got him coffee. Is she capable, yes. But she isn't even a college graduate. She wasn't his deputy in the past, she was his assitant, and there's a HUGE difference between the two.

what fascinated me about pegasus
was ron moore seemed to be saying
galactica has it easy
they have essential
the 13 colonies
they have many merchant ships
which means they have commerece
they still have a media
they have religious leaders
so they still have faith
galactica still has elements of civilization
pegasus only had pegasus
no pleasure just combat
they are cut off from everything that made them human
all they have to look forward to is winning the war
and they are determined to win at any cost
as for cain she may indeed be arrogant
even insane
but imagine what it must be like to
believe you are the only flag officer left
the responsibility to win the war is yours and yours alone
that could drive ANYBODY mad
and you might also come to believe
the glory should be yours alone as well
great start
cant wait for the slam bang finish

"So who will it be Arnie (Alan Alda) or Santos (Jimmie Smits.)? I'm pissed that it wasn't finalized in this episode"

I did hear that at one time they were going to quickly decide for Santos, but Alan Alda told them that he was enjoying himself so much that he wanted to stay around for longer than he had previously said. So, that basically got them back to square one for deciding how things would go.

Neil

First, re: Zod:

1)Did anybody notice there's a "kids" link, too?

2)Mr. T won't bow down to Zod - go, T! (Apparently I'm not the only person on Earth who has Mr. T pop into his head with odd frequency ....)

On the premieres: I used to watch West Wing, but I lost it, it lost me, something ... so, didn't see it. But, caught the other two:

Had kind of dropped Charmed - never really forgave them for how they screwed up Cole - but my wife got me back into it. I was pretty impressed with this episode. Yeah, it was very Quantum Leap with their new identities (I explained that to my wife since she never watched that show); the new fighter is interesting, at least as a mystery; yeah, they do need a new REAL baddie - Zanku was kind of underwhelming .... I still feel like they have to return to their former lives, so some deus ex machina will show up and restore everything eventually - but maybe they will surprise me .... BTW, I was very impressed with the actress playing Illusion Disguised Piper in the wake scenes - she had Holly Marie Combs' cadence and pacing DOWN.

And, I'm in the "liked Lost's premiere" camp. I also noticed Bowen's name in the credits, so I knew where that was coming from. We do need to see more of the rest of the cast, but I am interested to hear some (though I doubt complete) explanation for the base/prison/whatever it is in the next episode.

Peter,

I have got to believe that Tobey IS the leak too... For EXACTLY the reason you think he isn’t. You wrote, "My problem with the notion of Tobey being the leak is that the MOMENT C.J. is under suspicion, the Tobey that I've known for five years comes clean."

Well, I agree and disagree. The old "Sorkin" Tobey WOULD come clean the moment that C.J. was under suspicion. The post "Sorkin" Tobey… Well, not so much. A lot of crap has been laid on Tobey's doorstep in the post Sorkin years and he hasn't reacted well to much of it. (By "well" I mean like the Tobey we used to know.) The rather infamous Tobey/Josh fistfight (or "girly man wrestling match" if you can’t imagine what they had was really a fistfight) pretty much blew my hope that those two would ever act exactly like themselves ever again.

But getting back on point-- I think Tobey IS the leak because of the almost obscene number times he kept inquiring about C.J.'s progress in the meeting. When he said (paraphrasing here), "C.J. Craig is the LAST person who would leak this!"-- I was reminded of those old Quinn Martin produced detective shows like "Barnaby Jones" and "Cannon" where the person who stood up for an accused innocent’s character was ALWAYS the one who actually committed the crime. I think the same thing is going on here.

It’s poor sloppy writing/plotting.

So, you are absolutely correct when you ask, “Now is it possible they're writing him out of character?”—And you know you are. :-)

It’s poor sloppy writing/plotting.

That said (twice), I do think this was one of the strongest “West Wing” episodes in years… Even if I am 99.9% certain the winner is Santos.

Extreme wonderful imagination points to you for your great Santos assassination idea!

THAT, Ladies & Gentlemen, is why they pay Cowboy Pete the BIG BUCKS.

I predict that CJ will be the leak, but that Bartlet will do a last-minute, about-to-leave-office pardon.

Donna is in no way qualified to be Deputy COS. She's a secretary. She scheduled his appointments and got him coffee. Is she capable, yes. But she isn't even a college graduate. She wasn't his deputy in the past, she was his assitant, and there's a HUGE difference between the two.

Oh but did you see last season? They were pushing her to the top. Remember the scene last year where she and Josh discussed Santos running as Russell's VP? With a flash of old WW rapid back and forth, they came to the same conclusion and Josh asked her How she got so smart. Her reply? "I had a good teacher."

My problem with the notion of Tobey being the leak is that the MOMENT C.J. is under suspicion, the Tobey that I've known for five years comes clean.

***But does Tobey know that C. J. is under suspicion? The White House Counsel let C.J. know she was under suspicion, but didn't voice his subject of his suspicion in his conversation with President Bartlett and Tobey.***

"But does Tobey know that C. J. is under suspicion?"

Well, Tobey was informed in the last episode of the previous season that the FBI had a theory as to who the leak was...and he was told he "wasn't going to like it." Then they did a fast cut to CJ. Granted, this could be a sleight of hand: The FBI could think that Tobey was responsible and the cut to CJ was just a misdirection. The thing is, that would require a subtlety of storytelling technique that has largely been absent in West Wing over the past few years.

PAD

Jason, BSG has set up the new season in January for a big finish to the Pegasus story. I think they managed last season's cliff-hanger very, very well, if a little overdrawn out. I've a lot of faith in the producers, writers, and crew of this show, and I don't think we'll be let down by how this plays out.

I only watched the West Wing episode once (I have gotten in the habit of taping the shows and watching a second or third time during the week of broadcast to see if I can catch more of the subtleties upon subsequent viewings), but I’m torn that the leak is either CJ, Toby, or someone else altogether (CJ and Toby are both obvious for all of the reasons stated above (which almost rules them out) so it could very well be someone else.

I too loved the flash-forward as it gives the producers a mark towards which to shoot if the show doesn’t get picked up after this season. As for who becomes the President, Alda was quoted as saying (paraphrasing here) “Who do you think is going to win? They already have all these Democrats under contract.” Although that comment was made prior to revelations that the show was moving to Sunday and the budget had been cut, so anything’s possible, I suppose.

The Perfessor

and he was told he "wasn't going to like it.

Hmmm, that makes me think maybe Andie, his ex? (Course she wasn't mentioned or shown at all.) The cut to CJ that you mentioned made me feel it was her too, but that may be what they wanted us to think, to throw us off. Good way to use camera work to tell a story too.

"The thing is, that would require a subtlety of storytelling technique that has largely been absent in West Wing over the past few years."

I don't think "subtle" is a word that has ever been a trademark of The West Wing

I just watched the second episode of LOST. I am NOT going to spoil anything that happened in the episode, but I just wanted to say that I am now a convert to PAD's POV on how the first episode ended. The moment that they started showing us stuff happenning in the Hatch I knew exactly how it was going to end. Watching it happen reminded me of the old adage about watching a trainwreck.

Just my two cents

Interestingly enough, though this episode seemed a bit drawn out as well, I found it more engaging than the season premiere. At least, now we have a hint of some answers to speculate on (Which, let's face it, is conservatively half of the fun of the show) and a sense of some real forward momentum going.

Fred

Re: _Lost's_ second episode:

Minor SPOILERS for those who haven't seen it.

I liked that we got to see what happened to Michael, Sawyer and Jin. Personally, I would have had at least _one_ scene involving one or more of them last week; but at least this week we did learn what fate(s) befell the men on the raft.

I also liked how the episode jumped back a bit, to show us what Locke saw and did when he went into the hatch after Kate last week; as well as what Kate was doing when Jack arrived.

And I liked a certain revelation in the teaser for next week's show about a passenger Jack had known, pre-flight. It suggests possible good news for another passenger.

What I _didn't_ like is that the confrontation between Jack and Desmond returned to the exact moment it left last week. That's a cheat, as far as I'm concerned. I expected that we would learn something about how and why Desmond is down there; and whether his meeting with Jack years before, and this reunion now, was just coincidence. I imagine most viewers had similar expectations. But we didn't get that. Instead, we got a tease, a "ha ha, you're gonna have to wait _another_ week to learn what you wanna know."

Another thing I don't like is that _Lost_ and _Veronica Mars_ are on opposite each other.

Rick

I love Lost. I love alternate perspective storytelling. I love/fear CGI sharks. So I was pretty much loving last night. Season 1 told a story that lasted 44 days, so I'm in no rush to see the clock advance, so much as I want to see things happen. And for each of the major characters, there's more than one timeline to follow. There's the "what happens on the Island after the crash" story, and then there's the "what happened before the Island" story. Each episode is almost more, but at least half, about the before the Island story for one character, which makes the progress for the after the crash story slow. But since it's becoming more and more apparant that what happened before is very important to what happens after, we're actually able to see progress in both timelines in one episode.

I don't think these folks that captured Jinn are part of "The Others." I suspect that they are ALL survivors of the plane crash. Perhaps they were preyed upon by The Others much more than Jack/Locke's gang were and that's why they are hostile to Jinn, Sawyer and Mike. No reason for my feeling this way, just a hunch.

I have to wonder if Jack answered incorrectly when asked if anyone in his group had been infected. My guess is that the infection that has been spoken of a few times now that wrought havok on the original crash survivors years ago was the gradual turn to a survival-of-the-fittest mentality, base savagery, and bickering that we have already seen regularly tearing at the group's cohesiveness.

It would explain the fear that was shown by both old-timers that spoke of it, the savagery of the others, the taking of Michael, who as a young child is weaker, more vulnerable and easily kept under control to serve, etc.

Should this prove to be the case, than the awful moment of realization that each has when they figure out that they have been infected would be a solid tv moment, in my opinion.

Fred

Just to clarify.. wasn't it Locke who answered no one was infected?

Also, Michael is the black guy. His son is Walt. Walt was taken by "The Others."

-BBayliss, Mr. Stickler for the truth.

Thanks for the clarification, Mr. Stickler. I typed from work and had the professional hat on. :)

Fred

I have enjoyed the first two episodes of LOST this season. I am recent convert to the show after spending the last week watching the first season on DVD. Great show. Watching the dvd has cost me a lot of sleep. I am also enjoying the extras and easter eggs on the dvd.

My guess is that the Others are not the infected ones. They are two separate groups. I also suspect that the people who captured Jin are not the same group that took Walt.

Another possibility for the leaker on TWW: The Secretary of Defense, a recurring character that has shown over and over he has no respect for CJ or the rest of the main cast and would love to try and throw them under a bus.

Bobb: Don't take my musings as any major complaints - I still think it's one of the best genre shows in a long, long time. It can be a little plodding at times, but I think their almost over-focus on character development is what makes it stand out.

As another recent convert to LOST, after watching the entire first season, then the first two of this season, am I the only one who wonders whether the writers actually have a plan, or if they just keep making weirder and weirder shit up? Either way, the show's the greatest mind-f*** in a long time.

Just a couple of thoughts/musings/potential SPOILERS. I think that they ones who took Walt and Jin are the Others and that the girl who shows up momentarily in the teaser for next week is the oft-mentioned, now 16 or 17 years old Alex.

Also, did anyone manage to catch what the name was on the emblem on the stuff in the hatch? I know the symbol is Chinese, something to do with the Chinese zodiac or the I-Ching, I think.

-Rex Hondo-

Now here's something that I don't think anyone has figured out yet. Desmond orders Locke to enter the Numbers into the computer and, after he does, the countdown on the clock resets itself to 108...minutes? hours? My first thought was that that amount of time almost made sense as 108 hours is exactly four and a half days. Then it came to me: It's the numbers!

4+8+15+16+23+42 = 108!!

Now, all you lesser intellects: KNEEL BEFORE MY POWER!!! (Sorry, PAD. Couldn't resist.)

LOST 2.2 SPOILERS

This made up for the lackluster season premiere, I thought. Kind of redeemed it.

1. Rex Hondo wrote: "that the girl who shows up momentarily in the teaser for next week is the oft-mentioned, now 16 or 17 years old Alex."

If you're talking about the one with dialogue, played by Michelle Rodriguez, that's the woman Jack was talking to at the airport bar just before the flight. She was in the back half of the plane.

I've been expecting Alex to show up since the Season 1 finale, however. Probably whenever we get to see Walt in the clutches of the Others. (And I'd bet that if Alex was raised by them, he/she may have joined them.)

On the logo (on Desmond's uniform, on the shark, etc.), I've only seen this mentioned one place and haven't checked myself, but they're definitely I-Ching symbols, each one associated with one of the Numbers. Don't know if it's connected to Jack's tattoo or not. They might be overplaying the Numbers thing a bit.

2. J. Alexander wrote: "I also suspect that the people who captured Jin are not the same group that took Walt."

I hadn't thought of that, but that makes sense from the writers' POV - this means they can hold off showing the Others for a good part of the season, while introducing more threatening groups. Maybe the captors are tied to the Black Rock? Maybe they're the rest of the back-half survivors gone goofy?

Either way, it made for a great episode end, IMHO. First I'm worried that Jin's dead, then I'm relieved to see him, then the Others, or the pseudo-Others arrive.

3. Rick Keating wrote: "What I _didn't_ like is that the confrontation between Jack and Desmond returned to the exact moment it left last week. That's a cheat, as far as I'm concerned."

I actually thought they did a nice job of it, giving us Kate's priceless reaction when the music starts, confirming that she was the person we could just barely hear shouting beneath the music at the end of the previous ep, etc.

Rick Keating: "I expected that we would learn something about how and why Desmond is down there; and whether his meeting with Jack years before, and this reunion now, was just coincidence. I imagine most viewers had similar expectations. But we didn't get that. Instead, we got a tease, a "ha ha, you're gonna have to wait _another_ week to learn what you wanna know."

But we did learn more. Note Desmond's confusion when questioning Locke about what's going on in the world - seems like he hasn't been topside in a long while, and wasn't sure there was much left up there. He seemed pretty relieved when he thought Locke was someone he expected too. How long since Jack's stadium encounter? (Or, when did Shannon and Boone's father die?) And who did he expect to show up with the correct password?

Also, look at the way all the equipment and whatnot in the facility is old, circa early 80s, right down to the music, the LPs, the exercise bike, the old mainframes and the old Apple computer. The way he asked Locke if he knew how to work the computer, as if they weren't ubiquitous.

And when we're back to the confrontation with Jack, and Desmond calls him "brother," it's now clear that's not a name he simply reserves for Jack or a (near) fellow doctor, since he called Locke "brother" as well.

Basically, the Hatch stuff laid out a bunch of clues, the significance of which is not yet entirely apparent. It also suggested we should re-evaluate some assumptions from the previous episode.

For example, it seems we can probably rule out the possibility that Desmond/the Hatch facility is entirely (or even partly) tied to the control of the island - he had no clue who Locke and Kate were, and really, given that we don't get to hear him say anything after Jack says "you," we don't know yet if he even recognized Jack.

After the first episode, I figured the stadium scene meant whoever runs the island has been keeping tabs on the Lostaways before they crashed, manipulating their lives perhaps. I figured they'd go all conspiracy on us and we'd start to see Desmond in other people's flashbacks nudging them toward their destinies as part of some nefarious design. Now, I'm not so sure. Maybe he's on the side of the angels, so to speak.

Temporary hypothesis, sure to be shot down by next week: Is Hatch Desmond even the same as Stadium Desmond? After last night, I'm not so certain. There was a pair of twins on the Other's boat. Maybe we've just seen another pair - one stuck in a well-stocked island bunker since the 80s, one prepping for an "around the world race" searching for something or someone, maybe. (Or maybe there's some kind of cloning, or genetic manipulation thing going on? If someone can populate the waters off the island with tattooed guard sharks, surely a bit of the old cloning isn't out of reach.)

So, IMHO, The Hatch stuff last night provides plenty of ground for further speculation - not a cop out at all.

whoopsie... That's what I get for watching the show damn tired after my first night back to work... :P

I also wonder if there's some significance to polar bears in particular (the stuffed polar bear in Michael's flashback) or if the writers are just yanking our collective chain.

-Rex Hondo-

Jason, the funny thing is, about halfway through last season's Lost, I found myself tired of all the flashbacks, and just wanted some answers. Then we got the season finale, which answered maybe just one thing (and also made me thing I have precognitive powers, as I started that episode asking "how long till the blow Arnst up?"), but left tons more questions. I supposed I've started this season trying not to get into that mindset.

Rex said "As another recent convert to LOST, after watching the entire first season, then the first two of this season, am I the only one who wonders whether the writers actually have a plan, or if they just keep making weirder and weirder shit up? Either way, the show's the greatest mind-f*** in a long time."

From interviews the creators have done, they do have something like a super secret storyboard that has all the answers. And their rule, apparantly, is that for every answer they give out, the need to replace it with one or more new questions. But they also know that when they run out of answers, the show's over, so their goal is to try and keep as many mysteries going for as long as the show has legs, only wrapping everything up when it looks like they're about to get cancelled.

Which means, I would take it, that to a certain degree, yes, they are just making crazy stuff up along the way, filling in the time so they don't have to do big reveals too often. In many ways, Lost mimics a really good comic run, which I suppose is one of the reasons I enjoy it so much.

It's stuck in my head. Make it STOP!!!

Make Your Own Kind Of Music
Mama Cass Elliot
(Mann/Weil)
copyright 1968

Nobody can tell ya
There's only one song worth singing
They may try and sell ya
Cause it hangs them up
To see someone like you

You gotta make your own kind of music
Sing your own special song
Make your own kind music
Even if nobody else sings along

It can't be nowhere
The loneliest kind of lonely
It may be
Just to do your thing is the hardest things to do

You gotta make your own kind of music
Sing your own special song
Make your own kind music
Even if nobody else sings along

And if you will not take my hand
Then I must be going, I'll understand

You gotta make your own kind of music
Sing your own special song
Make your own kind music
Even if nobody else sings along

You gotta make your own kind of music
Sing your own special song
Make your own kind music
Even if nobody else sings along

You gotta make your own kind of music
Sing your own special song
Make your own kind music
Even if nobody else sings along

No no no no
Even if nobody else sings along
If nobody else sings along

Hmmm. LOST fans, we should be grateful that they did not use "I Write the Songs" instead.

Actually, Bobb, I was talking about Battlestar Galactica; I haven't actually watched one second of Lost...

Peter:

You've got way more street cred than me, but I was VERY unhappy with the opening tease to the first WEST WING of the new season. More questions would have been left unanswered without it, PLUS we have the dramatically unsatisfying knowledge that the Bartlett character is still alive in three years.

M

I don't think anyone else has posted this yet:

http://homepage.mac.com/mprieve/.Public/lost.mpg

It's a great ad for LOST. (for Bristish TV, I think.)

Slow mo dancing to Portishead, with Locke and Walt doing the conducting...if that's not entertainment what is?

i'm looking for my brothers and sister. todd, peter, and heather. i don't know where to find you. i heard dad's nothing to be proud of. please contact me. i'm your little sister for christ's sake. beckalyn@hotmail.com

CJ isn't the leak; nor is Margaret; it's the one person with the knowledge AND a personal connection to NASA.
Next week: stay tuned for the firing of Toby Ziegler.

They had that promo of firing someone quite a few weeks early. Finally, though, on the 16th we actually found out who it was and I presume on the 23rd we actually get the firing.

Neil