I think I speak for most New Yorkers when I say--without the slightest intention of sour grapes--good. One less thing to worry about.
PAD
Posted by Peter David at July 6, 2005 08:46 AM | TrackBack | Other blogs commentingI'm sure I'm not the first to say/think/post this, but...
I see London, I see France, I see Jacques Chirac's underpants!
We just had the Summer Olympics in '96, so we didn't need 'em again this soon anyways.
I've seen analysis to the effect that every city to get the Olympics suffers a financial hit, the only real beneficiaries being the developers building the facilities.
What frustrates me about this is that we lost out because Cablevision and Bloomberg's political opponents managed to shut down his plans for the West Side Stadium. I'm no Republican, but Bloomberg hardly is either, and he was absolutely right; the stadium would have been great for New York's economy. But now it's finished, and so are our Olympic dreams, all because of a bunch of greedy, selfish, dishonest people.
No more talk about a West Side Stadium, Thank God.
I think that New York is still healing and rebuilding, the Olympics might have been a detriment to the entire process.
We can always try again in 2012.
Regards:
Warren Samuel Jones III
Matt Adler:
Summer Olympics
1976 - Montreal, Canada
1980 - Moscow, Russia
1984 - Los Angeles, California USA
1988 - Seoul, South Korea
1992 - Barcelona, Spain
1996 - Atlanta, Georgia USA
2000 - Sydney, Australia
2004 - Athens, Greece
Winter Olympics
1980 - Lake Placid, N.Y.
1984 - Sarajevo, Yugoslavia
1988 - Calgary, Alta.
1992 - Albertville, France
1994 - Lillehammer, Norway
1998 - Nagano, Japan
2002 - Salt Lake City, Utah USA
2006 - Turin, Italy
So, since 1976, 6 of 16 Olympics were held in North America. About 38%. That's not good enough? Seems to me NA was already overly represented in the sites choosen.
Matt Adler
The US tends to use the same American nomination for a site until it's actually accepted by the IOC. If you're THAT worried anyway.
WarrenSJonesIII:
This selection of London was for the 2012 Olympics.
Matt Adler:
That attitude is exactly why this country has so many problems.
the US will host the Olympics again when they stop acting silly. Probable VISA problems were raised today at the presentation by, guess who, Syria...
You can argue all you want that the bid was by sane people in NYC, and think that the West End stadium was all that mattered; reality is, US reputation abroad is horrible.
That attitude is exactly why this country has so many problems.
What, hometown pride?
Good. Who needs the extra grief & chaos of trying to hold the olympics here in NYC. There is no good reason for it.
Well, I'm from London... and I'M jealous of YOU for not getting it.
I can't believe that damned thing will break even - Londoners have already been told that they're going to have to pay additional taxes for the next few years to finance it.
The London transport infrastructure can barely handle the numbers of people who use it now and we're expecting HOW many people???
It'll be impossible to get around London for the two and a half weeks of the event.
London 2012? Bugger and blast.
You ain't lyin' Peter, the Olympics in NYC would have been a horrific mess. The whole thing struck me as an exercise in ego-boosting for Bloomberg anyway. I don't think any other New Yorker actually wanted the games here. Remember the RNC? Imagine that spread over a month and all 5 boroughs instead of 3 days in midtown Manhattan. The costs, not just for the new stadium and other facilities, but the security, would have been astronomical and eliminated any sort of imaginary financial benefit. Good riddance!
Matt Adler:
Saying you aren't a North American, that you are a New Yorker? That's not hometown pride. That's arrogance or just plain ignorance. Something this country has PLENTY of, either way.
Saying you aren't a North American, that you are a New Yorker? That's not hometown pride. That's arrogance or just plain ignorance.
Please get a sense of humor.
budgie:
Hey, at least you get some hometown/nationalist pride out of the deal. That is, if you even care about that sort of thing.
Look at it this way. You will continue to get new episodes of Doctor Who broadcsst on your airwaves over there, while we Americans are stuck having to extralegally download these episodes. I think in the end, you're still the lucky ones. ;)
Amen, PAD. Even above and beyond the satisfaction that comes of Bloomberg's plans getting shot down, with everything else the last thing New York needs right now is to plan for an Olympics.
Matt Adler:
Got one, it just doesn't think your statements are funny.
Thanks Matt for being so willing to force your precious multi-billion dollar stadium down the throats of the rest of us who have no interest in paying for it.
They still hold the Olympics?
Does Vegas have odds yet that that relations between the US and Great Britain break down, and we decide to boycott?
Anyone else think that Chirac's comments about Finns (I hear there were 2 Finns on the selection committee) were deliberate? With the financial hit due to productivity lost during those 2 weeks, and the security issues in today's world, is there anyone in their right mind that would actually want to invite the world to stomp around their biggest cities? Not to say that we need to live in fear from now on, but until there are fewer crazies running around willing to die in the name of their cause, this kind of gathering runs at an extremely higher risk level than in the past.
Who cares about the Olympics? It's a boring two weeks of terrible television. I can honestly say I that I do not care a lick for the summer OR winter Olympics. I haven't watched them since I was 8 years old, and I don't miss it. Olympics in New York? Like the friends & family I have that commute need to pay MORE taxes for an overpriced, unnecessary traffic jam-creator in a West-Side Stadium that will be used for its intended purpose 10 times a YEAR. Over one billion dollars for a stadium? No thank you.
Hey, at least you get some hometown/nationalist pride out of the deal. That is, if you even care about that sort of thing.
Wary of admitting it here, since I really don't want to irritate everyone with a 'provocative' message, but no, honestly, I couldn't give a damn about "national pride". I've never understood why one should be "proud" of one's town, city or country just because one happened to be born there.
You will continue to get new episodes of Doctor Who broadcsst on your airwaves over there,
This is, of course, true.
Wary of admitting it here, since I really don't want to irritate everyone with a 'provocative' message, but no, honestly, I couldn't give a damn about "national pride".
Honestly, it seems more provocative (at least here) to admit you do.
When Toronto lost the bid for the 2008 Olympics to Shanghai, we (Canadians) were pretty damn pissed. However, Vancouver has 2010, so it anger didn't last long.
Budgie,
I'm confused by your comment: "The London transport infrastructure can barely handle the numbers of people who use it now and we're expecting HOW many people???"
We recently spent a week in London on vacation, and we found the Underground to be incredibly functional, never so full that it was a problem, no major delays (and line delays were well reported) and honestly the best mass transit system I'd ever used (easily beating NY Subway and Boston T). We rode it at all times of the day, including rush hour, midnight, and 8:30am on a Sunday, and had no issues. Did we just get incredibly lucky?
Lou
As a New Yorker, I am happy that both the Olympics and the West Side Jets Stadium have been turned down. The Olympics were supported by only about 60% of the residents and the Stadium by less than half.
What was the point of hosting the Olympics? Did they want to put NY on the map? I think it was all about the egos of Bloomberg and Pataki, who wanted the have an accomplishment.
Congrats, London.
Be prepared to have your city locked down for two weeks. You won't be able to fart without permission.
And all that money will go to security.
WE GOT THE GAMES!
We know what we are letting ourselves in for. The support for the games has grown slowly in this country.
What the heck is softball?
Coz for two weeks we will all end up watching it ..
Being a New Yorker, and living in Hell's Kitchen, my bias shows, but I definitely did NOT want a West Side stadium, and protested against it. The mayor and folks persisted with the stadium, and I was glad they got turned down. I'm sure, if they could have, they would have bullied the people into accepting it if Cablevision didn't step up. Their motives obviously weren't to help anyone else, but I'm glad they spoke up, so at least the New Yorkers who didn't want this stadium got their voices heard.
I don't think losing the West Side stadium was the big factor in the loss. I think, even if the city won the stadium, there would have still been the huge backlash, and the IOC still would have seen the division of New York over the Olympics. It wasn't whether we had a stadium on the West Side that lost it for us, it was the attitudes of the people not supporting the Olympics that lost the bid for New York. By not entertaining any other options for a stadium until they lost, Bloomberg, Doctoroff and the others running this bid turned the people against them, and they only have themselves to blame.
Kevin
Damn. I really wanted to see what the NY 2012 mascot would have been. Sounded interesting.
PAD,
"I think I speak for most New Yorkers"
Maybe you do, maybe you don't.
"good. One less thing to worry about."
Yes, heaven forbid we rise to new challenges. Better, I guess, in your opinion, to run away from them.
Craig J. Ries,
"We just has the Summer Olympics in 1996, so we didn't need 'em again this soon anyways."
Well, if you want to get technical about it, a;; we "need" is food and water - and shelter and a weapon would be nice as well. But it would have given the world a chance to see us - and our largest city - at our/their best. That would have been nice.
That said, I am happy for London. If we had to lose out, I am glad it was them.
Budgie,
You're from Europe. That explains a lot. Instead of crying about your infrastructure, ever think this may be the impetus to - oh, I don't know - IMPROVE it?
"No, honestly I couldn't give a damn about national pride."
Well, obviously a lot of people feel the way they do. The first thing you notice about people who have no pride in themselves is their unkempt appearance. Maybe if you had more pride in your country and carec about, you wouldn't have to whine about the infrastructure, because nobody would have let it get that bad.
They'd have too much pride.
"I've never understood why one should be 'proud' of one's town, city or country just because one happened to be born there."
It has little to do with geography. It has to do with appreciating what your country and the people you interact with and identify with achieve, accomplish and allow you to do. And by allow, I simply mean that if you are born in the U.S. - or London - your chances at a long, happy, healthy life are greater than in other parts of the world - in many cases to an incredible degree. It's appreciating being able to go back to a small town and have everybody remember your name and have low crime and people who take care of their property.
With cities like New York, it's appreciating being able to take part of so many different experiences and sensations and just a buffet of what life has to offer.
That's why. It's a shame you can't understand a concept such as this. Also, remember, if you cannot allow yourself to feel pride in these institutions, then you also cannot allow yourself to feel shame, and that is when these institutions and entities rot. Because no one cares. No one has any pride.
Bbayliss,
Leave Matt alone, will you? He likes where he lives and considers himself a New Yorker. That IS hometown pride. If you want a sample of arrogance AND ignorance, then kindly take a look in the mirror. Who the hell are you to tell him the proper way he should describe himself or how he should feel?
What the heck is softball?
Baseball, with a larger, softer ball, which is thrown underhanded by the pitcher. (Underhanded describes the motion of the pitch, as opposed to any diabolical nature. It tends to make the ball slower.)
I had no idea this was an Olympic sport. It always seemed to me to be a 'safer' form of Baseball for those who were scared to get injured by a harder, faster ball. You know, like for kids.
Jerome Maida:
Arrogance and stupidity. As I said, something of which the US of freakin A has plenty.
And for those unfamiliar with Baseball, here are Baseball Basics courtesy of the official Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
> Over one billion dollars for a stadium? No thank you.
I hear and agree. In Ottawa we were promised no taxpayer involvement when they built their showpiece NHL hockey arena some years back.
First thing which happened was it changed its name because it needed a corporate bailout. Then it went bankrupt anyway. Then taxpayers started to get dragged in until there nearly was a revolution.
Showpiece megaprojects? No thanks.
>When Toronto lost the bid for the 2008 Olympics to Shanghai, we (Canadians) were pretty damn pissed.
Pretty much everybody I know here in Ottawa and in Toronto were delighted. They remember what a fiscal fiasco the Montreal Olympics (not to mention the Skydome and other megaprojects) were and weren't keen on a repeat.
>However, Vancouver has 2010, so it anger didn't last long.
There are already problems brewing with that one. I just hope the taxpayer hit gets limited to BC and not get spread across Canada.
> We know what we are letting ourselves in for.
That's what the people of Athens thought.
>Coz for two weeks we will all end up watching it ..
I won't. Haven't in many years.
> The mayor and folks persisted with the stadium, and I was glad they got turned down.
Pat yourselves on the back for that one. A narrow escape. What I want to know is, we keep getting told they don't have the money for this essential item or that necessary thing but they somehow believe they can get the loot for these optional luxuries?
"I had no idea this was an Olympic sport. It always seemed to me to be a 'safer' form of Baseball for those who were scared to get injured by a harder, faster ball. You know, like for kids."
Yikes, guess you ain't seen the new fast-pitch softball they play now? That ball may not be moving in the 90mph range, but it's still cruising.
apparently, softball may not be a part of the 2012 Olympics.
(Unless the US team intentionally plays under-par so they aren't seen as too dominating.)
"Arrogance and stupidity. As I said, something of which the US of freakin A has plenty."
Speaking of which...
Toyota to build 100,000 vehicles per year in Woodstock, Ont., starting 2008
"WOODSTOCK, Ont. (CP) - Ontario workers are well-trained.
That simple explanation was cited as a main reason why Toyota turned its back on hundreds of millions of dollars in subsidies offered from several American states in favour of building a second Ontario plant.
Industry experts say Ontarians are easier and cheaper to train - helping make it more cost-efficient to train workers when the new Woodstock plant opens in 2008, 40 kilometres away from its skilled workforce in Cambridge.
'The level of the workforce in general is so high that the training program you need for people, even for people who have not worked in a Toyota plant before, is minimal compared to what you have to go through in the southeastern United States,' said Gerry Fedchun, president of the Automotive Parts Manufacturers' Association, whose members will see increased business with the new plant...
Several U.S. states were reportedly prepared to offer more than double that amount of subsidy. But Fedchun said much of that extra money would have been eaten away by higher training costs than are necessary for the Woodstock project.
He said Nissan and Honda have encountered difficulties getting new plants up to full production in recent years in Mississippi and Alabama due to an untrained - and often illiterate - workforce. In Alabama, trainers had to use "pictorials" to teach some illiterate workers how to use high-tech plant equipment.
"The educational level and the skill level of the people down there is so much lower than it is in Ontario," Fedchun said.
In addition to lower training costs, Canadian workers are also $4 to $5 cheaper to employ partly thanks to the taxpayer-funded health-care system in Canada, said federal Industry Minister David Emmerson."
Yeah, but that presentaion by that Doctor fellow
was very compelling...
But we have to consider the hazards in London-
Daleks...Cybermen...The Master....
Oasis...Robbie Williams....The Spice Girls!!!!
um...fastpitch softball is nothing new, it has been around for many years. in fact, it has been an olympic sport for awhile now (women's fastpitch softball).
and good pitchers can actually pitch the softball FASTER than a baseball - rich hoppe, who pitches with "the king and his court" has been clocked at 106 mph. the king, eddie feigner (who used to pitch, but had to turn over the reigns to hoppe after a heart attack), was almost impossible to hit off of, and even pitched to a over 16,000 batters blindfolded (striking out more than half of them).
i saw them play when i was a kid, easily beating our local softball team (which was a pretty big deal in the town i lived in). oh, and i forgot to mention - the king and his court was a four man team. playing four against nine, they almost always won (about 90% of the time), primarily because of the pitching.
anyway, all that said, softball is not a game for kids, in fact, most people who play it (whether slow pitch or fast pitch) are adults...
Some are adults who act like kids.
Allow me to vent somewhat here. Our company softball team has gone 0-9 mainly because of the lack of teamwork and everyone's (including me, I'll admit, after watching it for half the season) desire to make their own stats look good.
The summer Olympics should be held in the same place every four years: Somewhere in Greece (if they'll have it). It makes no sense to move it around every four years, spending billions to build new facilities each and every time.
Because so much new construction is usually necessary for host cities under the current hosting system, it is more of a financial drain than a boon, I think. The main benefit of hosting the Olympics seems to now be bragging rights. Is that really worth all that cost?
If you want a sample of arrogance AND ignorance, then kindly take a look in the mirror.
Lately, I've gotten the impression from you, Jerome, that YOU have plenty of arrogance and ignorance to go around.
Bobb wrote: "Yikes, guess you ain't seen the new fast-pitch softball they play now? That ball may not be moving in the 90mph range, but it's still cruising."
Real athletes play 16" slow-pitch softball -- where no mitts are the norm, and sprained/broken fingers and bruised body parts are a badge of honor.
"no mitts are the norm..."
What, are you pretending to be the 1869 Cincinnati Red Stockings?
I just have no idea how the ehck they're gonna hold the Summer Olympics in Rainy Ole London?
"You see, Chet, we were going to do the marathon race in dowtown London, but the Thames River overflowed with all the rain so the competors are running through the Chunnel instead.
"Right-o, I say. Jolly good. Tea and crumpets, anyone?"
R. Maheras:
"no mitts are the norm..."
I knew our allegiance was destined to be only temorary.
Craig J. Ries: We just had the Summer Olympics in '96, so we didn't need 'em again this soon anyways.
Luigi Novi: 16 years between the two Olympics is “soon”?
WarrenSJonesIII: We can always try again in 2012.
Luigi Novi: For what? We were talking about 2012. Or did you mean an Olympics further in the future?
"Luigi Novi: 16 years between the two Olympics is “soon”?"
Depends on your definition. When was the last time a city in Africa hosted the Olympics?
Luigi Novi: 16 years between the two Olympics is “soon”?
London has hosted twice before: 1908 and 1948, iirc.
So, yes, when there are a hundred other cities that deserves the rewards (or hassles, depending on pov) of an Olympic games, the USA can wait for once.
Mr. David,
Seconded.
I live in Philadelphia, several blocks away from the Art Museum.
My neighbors and I were NOT looking forward to Live 8.
Will, and any other Whovians out there.
If you have access to satelite, check out CBC, the Canadian Broadcasting Company on Sundays between 5:00 central. They're running the episodes
Back around '95 or '96, Bill Brickle had an idea for bumper stickers that would say "Don't Blame Me -- I Voted For Athens", but we never managed to produce any.
Kate has a t-shirt that shows a parody of "Izzy", the '96 mascot, taking a whiz, with a caption that reads "If you're done with my city, May I have it back?"
While it would have been potentially cool to have had the Olympics so close (We like watchin' 'em and I'm a freelance cameraman/editor, so that could've been a nice bit o' coin) all we would've heard was about the security. And Mitch, my sister and her husband used to live in that neighborhood, and they were sining the high praises that they don't anymore because of Live 8.
And Jerome--I come from a small town, lived here since I was five, and no one remembers me or wants to know anything about anyone else. Being proud of where you were born is like being proud of being born a bipedal entity with reasonably advanced cranial development. You had no control over it, and chances are that you would've been nearly the same person if you'd been born anyplace else under similar conditions. I, for one, take tremendous pride in my family and the fact that we're getting OUT of this neighborhood to somewhere a little less shallow.
BBayliss,
I was not the one who started using derogatory adjectives to describe people. That would be you.
But I guess it's easier hurling insults than coming up with intelligent statements instead of off-the-cuff nonsense.
"When was the last time a city in Africa hosted the Olympics?"
Whle this may have made you feel all warm and tingly while emphasizing your supposed point that the U.S./North America gets a disproportionate amount of Olympic Games (and everything else, I guess), can you answer a serious question:
When was the last time a city in Africa put in a serious bid? Do you even know if a city in Africa put in a bid at all?
Matt Adler,
BBayliss has no sense of humor, preferring instead to blast people BBayliss disagrees with, blast anyone who has a sense of pride in their local/national community as arrogant and stupid without even bothering to comment on or read the points they make in their posts and lobby for the 2012 games to be played in tranquil, beautiful, peaceful Sudan.
"good. One less thing to worry about."
"Yes, heaven forbid we rise to new challenges. Better, I guess, in your opinion, to run away from them."
No, better to run right toward them in as rude and obnoxious a manner as possible, as you demonstrate.
And you're here again...why?
PAD
Craig,
Why would you accuse ME of being arrogant and ignorant?
Even if we disagree and the arguments get heated, I try to post here in a thoughtful manner. The only times I have gotten really frustrated is when you seem to refuse to budge from your talking points and address stuff I have raised.
BBayliss accused Matt, who is hardly Iowa Jim (Meaning conservative), of having an attitude that is "responsible for this country having so many problems" simply because he has pride in where he lives. And if you look over my entire first post, you will see I meant far more than jingoism.
I thought the statement against Matt was a cheap shot, for no good reason, and I responded to it.
"BBayliss accused Matt, who is hardly Iowa Jim (Meaning conservative), of having an attitude that is "responsible for this country having so many problems" simply because he has pride in where he lives."
No, he gave Matt a jab for being annoyingly jingoistic in his post. Whether or not Matt meant it is a completely different subject. Did he take him too seriously? I'd say so. But the very same can now be said for your multitude of responses on the subject.
"Why would you accuse ME of being arrogant and ignorant?"
Apparently the obvious answer escapes you...
PAD
Making a tongue-in-cheek comment that "I'm not a North American. I'm a New Yorker" is "annoyingly jingoistic"? Annoyingly jingoistic would be if I said "F--- London, New York is the best city in the world!" But I didn't say anything remotely like that. I'm getting attacked just for being disappointed that my hometown didn't get the Olympics.
I think you guys need to look at what in yourselves causes you to take such great offense at such a comment.
"I think you guys need to look at what in yourselves causes you to take such great offense at such a comment."
Speaking for myself, I didn't take offense at it. I know there's a certain romantic attraction to hosting the Olympics.
But to me, it simply wasn't worth (a) the inevitable eight years' worth of wrangling, politicking, and arguing that was sure to accompany it, (b) the eight years' worth of traffic tie-ups and mess that would be the result of whatever massive construction jobs--from new stadiums to new arteries--were undertaken, (c) the host of inevitable scandals and screw-ups that would ensue as various individuals inevitably try to line their own pockets, and (d) the weeks' worth of inability to get anywhere in Manhattan (and likely the Bronx, Brooklyn and Queens) without tremendous hassles during the actual event. It's annoying enough NOW during the day with delays of an hour for the Lincoln Tunnel, the GWB, etc. I don't even want to think what it would have been like in the months and years leading up to the Olympics, and during the Olympics themselves. And now I don't have to.
To me an Olympic winning bid would have been, at best, a Pyrrhic victory. The prize wasn't remotely worth the battle.
PAD
Making a tongue-in-cheek comment that "I'm not a North American. I'm a New Yorker" is "annoyingly jingoistic"? Annoyingly jingoistic would be if I said "F--- London, New York is the best city in the world!"
Now see, that would have been funny, not annoyingly jingoistic. The other one wasn't. Now, keep in mind that I didn't take it the same way as BB did, but I can see how he did. So yeah, saying that it "came across as annoyingly jingoistic" is accurate. It didn't come across as tongue in cheek. The real point of my response, however, is to try and offer you all some understanding of where BB was coming from. I got it. Didn't agree with it, but got it.
"It'll be impossible to get around London for the two and a half weeks of the event. London 2012? Bugger and blast."
Easily solved: Get the hell out of Dodge. Come to New York, my'friend. It should be pretty quiet. Immerse yourself in Mets and Yankees games (they should both be in town over the period.) Come and see the latest Broadway shows. You'll feel right at home since by 2012 they're ALL be London imports. Get tickets to whatever's being filmed in New York, be it Letterman, Daily Show or whatever's around.
Either that or go on a cruise.
PAD
I hear what you're saying, but to me, there's something intangible about the Olympics that can't be measured simply by the problems that come with it. It's just such a special, unique event, that I can't help but think it's worth all the trouble. Just my gut feeling though.
As for the West Side Stadium, I think what people are missing about that is that it would bring in a ton of revenue and jobs to the city, which ultimately benefits the residents.
Just a couple of thoughts, not aimed at anybody in particular. Regional/national/whatever pride can be a good thing when not taken to extremes. Saying that such pride is "what's wrong with America" may be simplistic and imprecise, but there is a grain of truth to it. What a lot of people refer to as pride is really arrogance.
"Pride" is what leads many people to still fly the confederate flag and refer to the Civil War as the "War of Northern Agression." "Pride" is what has caused the USA to be the only country to refuse to dip its flag in respect to their hosts during the opening ceremonies of the Olympics.
So, to sum up. Pride that lets you hold your head high and strive to be the best you can be = Good thing. "Pride" that makes you into either a strutting peacock or a bully = Bad thing.
-Rex Hondo-
'Making a tongue-in-cheek comment that "I'm not a North American. I'm a New Yorker" is "annoyingly jingoistic"? Annoyingly jingoistic would be if I said "F--- London, New York is the best city in the world!"'
Now see, that would have been funny. The other one wasn't. What I should have written, to be perfectly clear, was that you "came across as annoyingly jingoistic" in your response. That was actually my initial reaction, and had to re-read it a couple times to see that you were joking. It didn't come across as tongue in cheek on first read.
I obviously didn't make myself clear. I didn't take offense to it, but my initial read of the comment was similar to that of BB. What I should have written (and thought I had, but it's late for us wusses out on the West Coast) was that it came across as annoyingly jingoistic. That said, if you'd posted "Fuck London, we're New York Fuckin' City!" I'd have laughed my ass off. Different strokes, I suppose.
Argh, the board messed up and I triple posted. Glenn, if you could delete my comments...
Knuckles,
"Did he take him too seriously? I'd say so. But the very same can now be said for your multitude of responses on the subject."
Perhaps...
PAD,
"To me an Olympic winning bid would have been at best, a Pyrrhic victory. The prize wasn't remotely worth the battle."
This is an understandable point of view. If it had been said at the beginning of the thread, perhaps my original interpretation of your words would have been avoided.
In fact, I don't know why you didn't just respond to me the way you responded to Matt. It seems the only time you do respond to me is when I hit you the wrong way and not when I ask about Star Trek or make a recommendation on/ask a question about/ comment on your work.
What torqued you off so much? I didn't accuse you of being un-American,call you names, use profanity or even go on at length. It was a one sentence statement. It's not like you don't have strong opinions.
In any event, I'm sorry if I pissed you off. If you don't choose to accept my apology, I will find other things to do with my time. Notice I didn't say "better". I have found a lot of these discussions to be enlightening and entertaining. But you are the host and if my presence here is no longer desired by yourself, then I will just say, "Thank you. It was fun:)"
Jerome, the comment was "annoyingly jingoistic" because Matt's statement was that he didn't think of himself as North American, or even American - just as a New Yorker. And that, my friend, is indeed one of the growing problems in this nation - an increasing number of people don't think of themselves as citizens of this nation, but only as citizens of their immediate locality. This tendency toward extreme parochialism is absolutely no help at all.
I am a San Diegan, a Washingtonian - and an American. (Also, a Terran and a human, but that's another rant.)
"And that, my friend, is indeed one of the growing problems in this nation - an increasing number of people don't think of themselves as citizens of this nation, but only as citizens of their immediate locality. This tendency toward extreme parochialism is absolutely no help at all."
Not exactly new. I have trouble busting on Matt for thinking of himself primarily as a New Yorker, because at least he's thinking of himself as part of the United States with no qualifiers. As opposed to the mass of hyphenate citizens we've got. "I'm an Italian-American. Asian-American. African-American." It's ridiculous. Two hundred years ago, people fought and died so we could have the right to be called "Americans" and suddenly everybody's got to slap on places of descent as if being simply "American" isn't good enough. And it's not even ACCURATE. You've got people who have two African ancestors a couple centuries ago calling themselves "African-Americans." Great. My mother came from Palestine on the continent of Asia, so technically I've got more reason to call myself an Asian-American than they do African-American, but people would look at me like I'm nuts.
And just for the record, it's not "New Yorker." It's "Nuyawkuh." One word.
PAD
"In fact, I don't know why you didn't just respond to me the way you responded to Matt."
Well, let's think real hard about this, Jerome.
Matt expressed his frustration centering around the thwarted West Side Stadium (which I personally think was a huge case of putting the cart before the horse, but hey, others believed in it.) And he said that he himself had been looking forward to it and was disappointed that it would never come to fruition. Perfectly fine.
Now...let's see what you said:
"Yes, heaven forbid we rise to new challenges. Better, I guess, in your opinion, to run away from them."
Since apparently I have to walk you through this: You just called me a coward. You just said that I don't have the nerve or the fortitude to rise to a challenge. It couldn't be that,in my opinion, the prize simply wasn't worth the having. No...it's because I "run away" from a challenge.
You piss me off, Jerome, not simply because you say arrogant and insulting things, but mostly because when called on it, you stand there doe-eyed, blinking, and saying, "Moiiiiii? What did *I* say?" It's disingenuous at best, bullshit at worst.
And now we're off to, "Well, gee, Peter, if you don't want me around, I don't want to be rude and upset you by remaining." God almighty, someone save me from the martyr syndrome. Here's a nutty notion: How about you stay, realize that you're being rude, and do one of two things: (1) Try not to be rude, or (2) go ahead and be rude but then don't shuffle your feet and "aw shucks, you misunderstood me" when called on it. Because the fact is that I understood perfectly what you're saying, and so do the other people who call you arrogant and insulting.
PAD
Actually, the problem (as it is in many such cases) is that, online, there is no way to tell from simple text what the emotional context is, given the lack of vocal inflection, body language and facial expression. That's why God gave us emoticons. ;)
As to the original subject of this thread:
As someone who lives just a couple of miles from the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, I can understand why people don't want to deal with two solid weeks or more of cluster-fuck traffic. All the talk of the cash coming into the city is cold comfort when the whole west side of Indy grinds to a halt a couple of times a year. Besides, New York hardly needs an Olympic prestige boost.
-Rex Hondo-
Just to be clear, the problem referred to above was the misunderstanding between Matt Adler and others. A couple of other posts appeared while I was typing and I couldn't be sure my intention was still clear.
-Rex Hondo-
Actually, I wonder if the problems with the West Side Stadium or even the United States' current image problems had as much to do with it as the impression of a US Olympic juggernaut created ca. the 1990s. Holding the games in Atlanta just 12 years after the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics was a record for shortest time elapsed for bringing the Summer Olympics back to the same country. And the problem wasn't helped by the fact that the more sentimental/idealistic followers of the Olympics probably would have preferred Athens to host the 1996 Summer Games (centenary of the first modern Olympic Games, Athens 1896), Atlanta does not have that great an image (to quote Futurama: "Oh no, Atlanta was so much more than just a Delta hub!") and did not succeed in markedly improving it through what was perceived by many as the most nakedly commercial Olympics ever (the "Coca Cola Olympics", as some cynics called them). Add to that the bribery scandal about Salt Lake City's successful bid for the 2002 Winter Olympics, and I guess any US bid after that was going to be an uphill struggle...
Jonathan (the other one),
Thanks for your perspective on what Matt said. If BBayliss had expressed similar sentiments, I would not have reacted in a heated manner.
Well, i´m from Spain and here everybody is pissed about the London election. The plan, infraestructures and people support were very superior in Madrid than in London. What a pity.
And the Olimpic Games are the most important sport games in the world, next to the football world series (not soccer, please). People don´t care about the ridiculous baseball or american football.
Jerome, the comment was "annoyingly jingoistic" because Matt's statement was that he didn't think of himself as North American, or even American
If I'd said "I'm not a North American. I'm an American", I'd have gotten bashed even worse. BBayliss, by way of saying I shouldn't be disappointed that NY didn't get the Olympics, quoted a bunch of statistics showing where they've been held across the entire freakin' continent. And I'm saying "That's all well and good, but I'm still disappointed that my hometown didn't get it."
I figured no one could seriously believe I was saying "Anyone who isn't in NY, I don't care about them" (yeah, if a bomb goes off in Trenton, I'm gonna be like "Sucks to be you"), but oops, guess I was wrong.
Jerome, the comment was "annoyingly jingoistic" because Matt's statement was that he didn't think of himself as North American, or even American
If I'd said "I'm not a North American. I'm an American" I'd have gotten bashed even worse. BBayliss, by way of saying I shouldn't be disappointed that NY didn't get the Olympics, quoted a bunch of statistics showing where they've have been held across the entire freakin' continent. And I'm saying, "That's all well and good, but I'm still disappointed that my hometown didn't get it."
I figured no one could seriously believe I was saying "Anyone who isn't in New York, I don't care about you" (yeah, if a bomb goes off in Trenton, I'm really gonna be like "Sucks to be you"), but oops, guess I was wrong.
Jerome, the comment was "annoyingly jingoistic" because Matt's statement was that he didn't think of himself as North American, or even American
If I'd said "I'm not a North American. I'm an American" I'd have gotten bashed even worse. BBayliss, by way of saying that I shouldn't be disappointed that NY didn't get the Olympics, quoted a bunch of statistics showing where they've been held across the entire freakin' continent. And I'm saying, "That's all well and good, but I'm still disappointed that my hometown didn't get it."
I figured no one could seriously believe I was saying "Anyone who isn't in New York, I don't care about you" (yeah, if a bomb goes off in Trenton, I'm really gonna be like "Sucks to be you"), but oops, guess I was wrong.
Also, condolences go out to the people of London. We're with you guys.
***Matt: I tried to post this last night, but couldn't get it to work.
I obviously didn't make myself clear, and will blame it on the late hour. I didn't take offense to it, but my initial read of the comment was similar to that of BB. What I should have written was that it came across as annoyingly jingoistic. That said,f you'd posted "Fuck London, we're New York Fuckin' City!" I'd have laughed my ass off.
Matt: Damn. They all took. And now you get to see all my different versions in their pithy, late-night glory.
Thanks, Matt.
Yesterday I was happy that London won at the end. I was thinking at 2012 my daughter will be 10 and especially because we are not living far away from London I was thinking how wonderful it would be for her if my brother from Germany could come over then and show her the Olympic games.
What happened today made me wonder if that would be really such a good idea. Yes, I understand the need not to give in to terrorism but when it is about your loved ones, this is not a simple matter at all.
At the moment I feel a lot of anger and sadness.
"It should be pretty quiet. Immerse yourself in Mets and Yankees games (they should both be in town over the period.)"
I understand the comment about the placidity of Mets games (that's a joke, by the way), but when are the Yankee fans ever quiet?
Jerome Maida:
"I was not the one who started using derogatory adjectives to describe people."
I said that there is MUCH stupidity and arrogance in the USA. You would disagree?
"BBayliss accused Matt, who is hardly Iowa Jim (Meaning conservative), of having an attitude that is "responsible for this country having so many problems" simply because he has pride in where he lives"
I'm sorry you misunderstood. I pointed out that saying he saying he wasn't a North American was no more than jingoism at it's very worst.
Rex:
"What a lot of people refer to as pride is really arrogance."
EXACTLY!
"football world series" Did any other Americans on here picture Franco harris running over Mike Piazza in the bottom of the ninth in game 7 of the World Series?
"football world series"
Did anyone (Americans and Canadians, I suppose) else picture Franco Harris colliding at home plate with Mike Piazza in the bottom of the 9th in game 7?
I pointed out that saying he saying he wasn't a North American was no more than jingoism at it's very worst.
I'm sorry, who should I call in North America to come up pick up my garbage?
I just love the image of someone saying, "See here? Everyone who lives north of this line, you're a North American. Everyone south, you're a South American. Oh, and if you live near the middle you get the option of calling yourself Central American. Now go pledge allegiance, and don't you dare turn against your continent."
You know, I was all set to say, "If a bomb went off in Trenton, would anyone notice?" but after what happened in London this morning, that seemed a little tasteless. I hope all of the regulars on this forum who are Londoners are okay.
A few other thoughts:
I can say that my in-laws who live and work in NYC are all breathing a sigh of relief. Hosting the Olympics is a logistical nightmare for any city and for one as crowded as NYC, it would be insane.
Regarding the Salt Lake City bribery scandal: That was nothing knew. It's an open secret that the Olympic selection process is one of the most corrupt in the world. The guy who brought the winter games to Nagano openly said he bribed several people to get the games to his city. The people of SLC were just inept enough to get caught at it.
Anyway, getting back to my in-laws, I talked about this with my brother-in-law several times. He was convinced (and dreaded) that the Olympics were coming to NYC. I kept telling him over and over again that it wasn't going to happen, that our image abroad was so bad, especially for foreign tourism, and that the fix was already in. I thought it was going to Paris, but I was partly right.
I too wish to give my condolences to Britain and Londoners.
I said some time back that, after 9/11, nobody was truly safe, that everybody would be a target.
Sadly, the two attacks by the group claiming responsibility (Madrid, Spain, and now London) have only proven me right.
And sometimes, being proven right isn't a good thing.
He was convinced (and dreaded) that the Olympics were coming to NYC. I kept telling him over and over again that it wasn't going to happen, that our image abroad was so bad, especially for foreign tourism, and that the fix was already in.
So you're saying there's an upside to Bush's foreign policy...
Not to defend Jerome too much, but Matt didn't just say, "that he himself had been looking forward to it and was disappointed that it would never come to fruition." What he did say was that people who opposed the West Side Stadium were "all because of a bunch of greedy, selfish, dishonest people." And that's pretty undefendable. Now, I'm on the opposite coast, but speaking as someone who has had THREE stadiums shoved down his throat in the past decade (yeah, that new hockey stadium built two years ago is doing gangbusters for the economy...and you know just the thing to make the Arizona Cardinals the bestest team ever? A several hundred million dollar stadium!), let me just say that stadiums do NOT help the economy...they usually are abandoned before they break even on the cost and the tax breaks. And then you have empty buildings just sucking the life out of a city. It's bragging rights and caving into sports teams.
I guess so. If you call having our tourism industry losing millions of dollars because of intensifying the "ugly American" stereotype.
Look at it this way: I didn't think much about your "I'm a New Yorker" comment and I hate NY (f--k the Yankees! Go O's!)! But thanks to Cowboy George, the non-Americans immediately jumped on it as another sign American jingoism.
Perception is everything, innit? I actually DID laugh out loud at Matt's "I'm not a North American. I'm a New Yorker." I got a picture of a little, overweight guy in an oversized Met's shirt thumping his hairy chest trying to pick a fight (an utterly different image than I normally associate with Matt). It just seems so spot-on for the stereotypical New Yorker.
If you think about it, New Yorkers are pretty prime. Off hand there are a handful of instantly recognized US stereotypes:
1. The prototypical Southerner (encompasses half a dozen states)
2. The Western Cowboy (Also encompasses half a dozen states)
3. The New Yorker (One state. See? These guys are special).
So, anyway, Matt, I got it and found it amusing.
We lived in Atlanta during the Olympics and I'd be glad if it had passed us by.
What he did say was that people who opposed the West Side Stadium were "all because of a bunch of greedy, selfish, dishonest people." And that's pretty undefendable.
Actually, from what I read about the stadium deal, it's a fairly accurate statement.
3. The New Yorker (One state. See? These guys are special).
Actually, when people refer to "New Yorkers", they're usually referring to the city, not the state.
And yes, we are special. ;)
What he did say was that people who opposed the West Side Stadium were "all because of a bunch of greedy, selfish, dishonest people." And that's pretty undefendable.
This statement is a little unclear. are the bunch of greedy, selfish, dishonest people those who oppose the stadium or those who want it?
If the former, then yeah, it is indefensible.
Den:
"...the non-Americans immediately jumped on it as another sign American jingoism."
Hey, I live in Ohio. Last time I checked that did not make me a non-American. Unless Canada invaded Ohio this morning?
We shoot students here. You think we'll hesitate to shoot some Royal Canadian Mounted Moose-lovers? THINK AGAIN CANUCK-HEADS!
Okay, my mistake. Ohio is still part of the union, but after the way you screwed up the last election, if Canada wants to annex you, they're welcome to it.
And of course, you weren't the only one who jumped on Matt's statement.
*I* didn't screw it up. *I* voted for David Duke.
WAY j/k (well.. about DD, I still don't think *I* screwed it up.)
"You" as in the collective citizens of the state of Ohio.
Damn, the English language should never have dropped the idea of have separate pronouns for second person singular and plural.
So you're saying there's an upside to Bush's foreign policy...
Now that is funny.
Damn, the English language should never have dropped the idea of have separate pronouns for second person singular and plural.
That's the upside of the Southern dialect -- we have "y'all" for "you-singular" and "all y'all" for "you-plural". ^_^
"That's the upside of the Southern dialect -- we have 'y'all' for 'you-singular' and 'all y'all' for 'you-plural'. ^_^"
Or the variant I learned in the AF, where it's "you" singular and "y'all" plural.
Of course, the Nyawkuhs here are also familiar with the use of the singular "you" and the plural "youse"...
:)
Of course, the Nyawkuhs here are also familiar with the use of the singular "you" and the plural "youse"...
Youse can be used in the singular if you're from Bensonherst in Brooklyn.
"all because of a bunch of greedy, selfish, dishonest people." And that's pretty undefendable.
I was referring to Cablevision and Bloomberg's political rivals. They weren't opposing the stadium (and airing costly TV ads making dramatically dire and false claims) because they were concerned about the economic effect it would have on the city... they were doing because, in Cablevision case, they didn't want the competition for Madison Square Garden (which they own), and in his political rivals case, it's because there's an election in November.
I personally believe the stadium would have helped the city tremendously, but I have no objection to people with an honest difference of opinion... but those people weren't honest. So yeah, I think they are greedy, selfish and dishonest. I think if the plan had been to build a new stadium for Cablevision, or if the plan had come from one of their political allies, those guys would have been all in favor of it.
Actually, when people refer to "New Yorkers", they're usually referring to the city, not the state.
Yeah, the upstaters hate us :)
"You" as in the collective citizens of the state of Ohio.
Watch it, he's not an Ohioan. He's a citizen of the universe.
Yeah, Matt. That pretty much squares with what I've read about many of the opponents. Of course, I also think that opposite is true: That the people who were trying to build the stadium were being greedy and selfish as well, not to mention short-sighted. I mean, if you're going to build a stadium in a city of 20 million, don't you think a few parking spaces might be in order? I know New Yorkers like their subway, but also know that there are those that prefer to drive, like my two brothers-in-law.
Well, screw the Jets anyway. They deserve to play in Jersey.
Youse can be used in the singular if you're from Bensonherst in Brooklyn.
'Scuse me, that's "Bensonhoist".
Well, screw the Jets anyway. They deserve to play in Jersey.
I wonder if they'll give up on it so easy, though. I mean, the Olympics are gone, so there's none of that leverage anymore, but the Jets still want a new stadium... perhaps they'll try to resurrect this plan at some later point, or even in another spot.
Who knows, maybe NY will get more favorable terms this time, given that there isn't the Olympic imperative looming.
3. The New Yorker (One state. See? These guys are special).
Actually, when people refer to "New Yorkers", they're usually referring to the city, not the state.
And yes, we are special. ;)
Damn skippy. I was relocated by force as a kid and I still consider myself a New Yorker (or as PAD has correctly pointed out, NooYawkah -- hell it even sounds like a tribal name).
Thanks for explaining soft ball, it's baseball with bigger balls.
Oh the smut in the above statement is so obvious lol.
I was relocated by force as a kid and I still consider myself a New Yorker
You can take the kid out of New York, but...
You gotta wonder just how lucky this was for New York.
Was the mess in London right now a part of a long term plan that already targeted London, a response to G8 or part of a long term plan to hit the winner of the Olympics?
Four simulataneous bombings takes some planning and preparation and the announcement about London getting the Olympics was just yesterday. I doubt they would have had time to execute this in just 24 hours. G8 is planned months in advance. That's the most likely target.
My first thoughts were that it was triggered by the Olympic bid, but that would mean the cell would have to have prepared bombs and scouted targets, and just be awaiting a moment to strike.
No, this kind of coordinated, cowardly attack takes weeks, if not months, to plan. And we already know that terrorist cells are big on symbolic dates...the start of the G8 conference is a pretty big date.
Peter David: Two hundred years ago, people fought and died so we could have the right to be called "Americans" and suddenly everybody's got to slap on places of descent as if being simply "American" isn't good enough. And it's not even ACCURATE. You've got people who have two African ancestors a couple centuries ago calling themselves "African-Americans." Great. My mother came from Palestine on the continent of Asia, so technically I've got more reason to call myself an Asian-American than they do African-American, but people would look at me like I'm nuts.
Luigi Novi: Of course, technically, we’re all African-Americans. :-)
or part of a long term plan to hit the winner of the Olympics?
I kinda doubt they decided not to hit the U.S. just because we didn't get the Olympics.
"THE PRESIDENT: We are fighting these terrorists with our military in Afghanistan and Iraq and beyond so we do not have to face them in the streets of our own cities."
Knuckles, this is totally off topic, but are you by any chance Canadian?
'cause then we could call you K-nuck the canuck.
Just a thought.
"We are fighting these terrorists with our military in Afghanistan and Iraq and beyond so we do not have to face them in the streets of our own cities."
Why did he say that? were they planning an invasion? 'cause I think we outnumber them by just a tad. Also, we aren't fighting the terrorists in Iraq, we are fighting Iraquis in Iraq. The terrorists, if you recall, were in Pakistan. But we can't attack them 'cause they are our friends.
I posted the above in response to a question on the London Calling thread, but felt that it really shouldn't be put in there. That was a campaign speech given by GW last year.
I'm not Canadian, but I am from Seattle. Many Canadians I've met seem to think that's close enough for them.
James:
"But we can't attack them 'cause they are our friends."
And they have the bomb.
"Two words. Nuclear f'ing weapons, okay?! Russia, Germany, Romania - they can have all the Democracy they want. They can have a big democracy cake-walk right through the middle of Tiananmen square and it won't make a lick of difference because we've got the bombs, okay?!
John Wayne's not dead - he's frozen. And as soon as we find the cure for cancer we're gonna thaw out the Duke and he's gonna be pretty p.o.'d. You know why? Have you ever taken a cold shower? Well multiple that by 15-million times, that's how p.o.'d the Duke's gonna be. I'm gonna get the Duke and John Cassavetes...
(Hey)
and Lee Marvin
(Hey)
and Sam Pekinpah
(Hey)
And a case of Whiskey and drive down to Texas..."
"Four simulataneous bombings takes some planning and preparation and the announcement about London getting the Olympics was just yesterday. I doubt they would have had time to execute this in just 24 hours"
Yeah, but they had longer then 24 hours. Something like this could have been in the planning stage since they were down to the final ten. If they already had prep work done it would take no time to put into play.
I'm not saying that it was 100% about the Olympics. It's just that there are three options that spring to my mind due to the timing of the thing and that was my number three option. It does make sense in a way since it must have made one hell of hit to everybody who went to sleep after high fives and cheer and woke up to a terrorist attack in the heart of their homeland. That is the kind of effect that terrorist sometimes shoot for (besides just the death and destruction.)
But I agree that the G8 is the better option. I just won't rule it out until more info comes out.
To all the people that keep asking about who ever said anything about fighting them there so we wouldn't have to fight them here:
What deep, dark, news free hole in the ground have you been living in for the last two plus years and was the rent good?
I do not consider myself a pacifist by any stretch of the imagination, but John McGowan, the webmaster of Michael Berube's website has posted a very thought-provoking piece (for me anyway). It's one I'll have to consider in more detail before I make any comments about it, but it's one that I think is worth sharing.
An excerpt:
"The weight of our sad times has nearly turned me into a pacifist. I will admit that, finally, pacifism leaves me in a position that I experience as intellectually and emotionally incoherent. But my response to today’s bombings in London is a sickening: “Here we go again.” So I am casting about for some alternative narrative to replace the all too predictable one we are about to reenact.
The rhetoric of response to violence is predicated on understanding violence itself as rhetorical. The terrorists are trying to “send us a message.” Their message is: give up your way of life or we will destroy you. Once their actions are interpreted in this way, the tenor of the response is pre-scripted. As Tony Blair said it today: “We will not allow violence to change our societies and our values.” How we will send our message? By imposing our will on theirs. “We shall prevail and they shall not.” Their initiatory act of violence calls forth our responding acts of violence.
What differentiates our violence from theirs? Three things: 1) our aims are moral; theirs are not; 2) they kill innocent people; we do not; and 3) their actions are “gratuitous”; ours are “necessary.” (Lurking behind all three is the old schoolboy standard: “he started it.”)
Pacifism calls all these familiar rhetorical moves into question. It insists that violence can never be instrumental, that it never simply produces the ends toward which it aims. The effects of violence—on the perpetrator as well as the victim—are incalculable. History suggests that violence is a great destroyer. But it does not create anything. You cannot preserve a way of life through violence; once you take up arms, kiss your old way of life good-bye. The attacks of September 11th did change America—not through what the terrorists did, but through what we did in response."
'Scuse me, that's "Bensonhoist".
I stand corrected. I should know better, my mother comes from Brooklyn.
Luigi Novi: Of course, technically, we’re all African-Americans
Well, if you go by the bible, & we all come from the Garden Of Eden, which many bibical schlors put somewhere in the Iran / Iraq region, we're all Persian-Americans
The accent from my island is fairly distinctive.. and less than 200,000 people live there... Anyone familiar with Canada know of Cape Breton?
you by - you (singular)
you by's - you (plural)
If one's from my particular hometown, Glace Bay, one is well versed in the butchering of the english language:
Jeet yet?
Naw, joo?
Naw, twirly by.
Good luck decoding it.
Yeah, but they had longer then 24 hours.
Aren't we forgetting about this little thing called the Chunnel?
And, that with said Chunnel, it is possible to get from Paris to London overnight?
So, while I also think that the G-8 summit is the target, and not the Olympic announcement, anything is possible.
Liam Spencer :
Jeet yet?
Naw, joo?
Naw, twirly by.
"Did you eat yet?"
"No, did you?"
"No, it's too early."
("By" would be "boy", if I'm not mistaken)
Peter David: Two hundred years ago, people fought and died so we could have the right to be called "Americans" and suddenly everybody's got to slap on places of descent as if being simply "American" isn't good enough. And it's not even ACCURATE. You've got people who have two African ancestors a couple centuries ago calling themselves "African-Americans." Great. My mother came from Palestine on the continent of Asia, so technically I've got more reason to call myself an Asian-American than they do African-American, but people would look at me like I'm nuts.
oh my GOD!!!!!!!! i must be turning democrat because i so agree w/ this.
joe v.
That's the upside of the Southern dialect -- we have "y'all" for "you-singular" and "all y'all" for "you-plural".
I'm more familiar with the Jonathan variant-- "y'all" is the plural, with "all y'all" and "some of y'all" used to distinguish an entire audience from subgroupings.
"Y'all" is a very useful word. I use it on purpose now, redneck that I am. (Somehow I have managed to spend more than three quarters of my life in NC and yet I have no discernable accent. I speak General American.)
"("By" would be "boy", if I'm not mistaken)"
That's probably its source, but it's used as a catch-all now. Women use it to refer to each other.
I'm impressed that you got the rest of it though.
Sleeping days as I do, I didn't even hear about the London attacks until a couple hours ago. As much as my heart goes out to our brothers and sisters across the pond, I can't help but be bewildered that it took Shrub about 5 minutes to start talking out of his ass.
"The war on terror goes on," Bush said. "I was most impressed by the resolve of all the leaders in the room. Their resolve is as strong as my resolve."
Plus 20 points for his second sentence, minus a couple hundred for his third. Can the man not even compliment his fellow world leaders without patting himself on the back? And does the man honestly not realize that his "resolve" has gone a long way towards keeping Al-Qaida's numbers up?
*sigh*
-Rex Hondo-
Heh, a few years back, my dad worked in an office where the most authentic African-American was a white guy (pardon me, caucasian male) from South Africa.
-Rex Hondo-
"Jeet yet?
Naw, joo?
Naw, twirly by."
Or, a conversation in Redneck (as reported by Jeff Foxworthy):
Jeet yet?
Naw, joo?
Jaunt to?
Aa-ight.
What breaks me up is that people are shouting, "At least the French didn't win!" You remember the French...the country that helped us win independence from the British.
I'll tell you, I spent a few days in Paris and the surrounding environs a couple years ago. Despite what you'd expect, everyone was unfailingly polite and, much to my surprise, everyone I encountered supported and appreciated my endeavors to speak in French (as opposed to years ago when they'd quickly switch to English so they didn't have to hear you mangle their language.)
Plus everyone's now howling over the French president commenting that Britain's major contribution to European cuisine has been Mad Cow Disease. First, c'mon...I mean, yeah, MCD is a terrible thing, but give him his due: That's a funny line. Second, in my life I've yet to hear ANYONE say anything positive about British cuisine. In fact, Brits I've encountered, here and in the UK, seem to delight in slagging their own food. Naturally I won't be surprised if this observation prompts a slew of support for British cooking, but that won't change the fact that the joke didn't exactly come out of left field.
Maybe I'm less concerned since, be it Britain or France, I won't be going either way. Then again, I doubt I'd have gone even if it had been in NY, so...
PAD
"Or, a conversation in Redneck (as reported by Jeff Foxworthy):
Jeet yet?
Naw, joo?
Jaunt to?
Aa-ight."
Why does "Redneck" read like two guys speaking who just had root canal and the novacaine hasn't worn off.
PAD
"Why does "Redneck" read like two guys speaking who just had root canal and the novacaine hasn't worn off."
There's a comment swirling around in my brain that has something to do with teeth...or the lack thereof...but my inner censor is giving off all kinds of alarms, so I think I should keep the rest to myself.
Am I the only one that thinks Chirac's comments were either A) taken waaaay to seriously (and, c'mon, the truth hurts), or B) a deliberate attempt to keep the Games out of Paris?
Am I the only one that thinks Chirac's comments were either A) taken waaaay to seriously (and, c'mon, the truth hurts), or B) a deliberate attempt to keep the Games out of Paris?
Oh I think that Chirac very much wanted the Games. he needs some kind of victory at this point.
BILL: "Oh I think that Chirac very much wanted the Games. he needs some kind of victory at this point."
Why do you say that?
I think Bill is refering to the recent defeat of the EU Constitution by French voters, many of whome cited distrust of Chirac's government as the reason for being against it. In other words, because Chirac invested so much effort into convincing voters to support the constitution, he actually drove people away from it.
Why do you say that?
From Bloomberg.com:
For Chirac, 72, the defeat is yet another setback after the French on May 29 rejected a referendum on the European constitution and his political party was routed in regional and European parliamentary elections last year.
...The Olympics bid defeat further diminishes Chirac's hopes of running for a third presidential term in 2007. His approval rating fell to 28 percent in June, down 12 points from the previous month, according to a monthly poll of 1,884 people done by Ifop for Journal de Dimanche.
I think I'm on safe ground suggesting that Chirac has seen better days...
Another NY'ers two cents.
I am born and bred here and want to say, Thank God we didn't get the friggin' Jets Stadium or the Olympics. Call me silly, but can't that money be put towards something outlandish, like the public school system, middle to low income housing or medical insurance for the uninsured? The stadium and the Olympics had nothing to do with helping NY, it was simply Bloomberg wanting to have some sort of legacy as a Mayor. Someone else has posted it, but its worth repeating, the Olympics is not a financial boon to the host city, its an albatross. Also, the original proposal for the Jets was out in Queens, but for whatever reason Bloomberg couldn't get behind supporting it for an outer borough.
The Yankees are getting a new stadium, so are the Nets and possibly the Mets. Don't you think these projects are enough?
There's an old Newfy (Newfoundlander) that goes something like this:
In Newfoundland, the term "tousands and tousands" is used to mean alot. When offshore drillers came to Newfoundland a couple of decades ago and first started their test drilling, they came to find a great deal of reserves. The estimate was on the order of several tens of millions of barrels. When an old-time fisherman was relaying the find to some geologists on his boat, they asked him "so? They found several millions of barrels of oil?"
"No," he replied. "Dey found more den tat, Dey found tousands and tousands."
On a sidenote, Peter, I don't think England of the 1770s could have care much about what anyone called themselves. I (tongue firmly in cheek) can only imagine the Founding Fathers rallying the people to go to war, not because of overtaxation, and political descissions made an ocean way, but because they hated calling themselves colonials, having to wear wigs and bowlers, and having to walk with umbrellas.