PeterDavid.net

Man, that sucks. On the plus side, I have a new Londo doll comming to me that I won from some auction. I'll be sure to send you pics, ok?

I'm sorry, I cannot bring myself to feel too bad that you didn't get to blow $7,000 on a doll :)

Bummer. It might cheer you up to learn that Jewel will be at Dragoncon again this year (along with Nathan Fillion, Morena Baccarin, Adam Baldwin, Ron Glass, and some guy named Joss).

By the way, any new development on the little contest between Jewel and Nathan. Has he tried to top the Dragoncon salute?

David

Ooooooh. Cruel, TFE, cruel...even if that's a joke.:-P

Sorry you didn't win, PAD. Looked like a fun prop (can't say I've watched any B5 to understand its involvement in the episode, so I just have the item description to go by). Upon looking at said auction, I'm reminded of a quote from one of my favorite TV shows, Friday the 13th: The Series...

I"m sellin' it at auction. You know, the one the Briggs's holding day after tomorrow?"

"Stay right here, I'm going to go home and break open my piggybank."

"You got that much in your piggybank? Man, I'm in the wrong business!"

Is this thing on? *taps*

~G.

Matt, when I'm pissed off about something is about the worst time you can choose to sound like my mother...

PAD

As the saying goes, everyone needs a Jewish mother. Just not two of them.

Sounds like you were "sniped"... that's one big reason I never seriously considered playing on eBay. It's even worse that they choose to condone it by never addressing the issue. I have other gripes about eBay (and their new property, PayPal), which I won't air out here.

I understand how you feel, though. If I had a hand in creating something, and wanted it that badly, I'd be pissed as well if some ass came along and yanked it out of my grasp using methods I felt were underhanded. I can also kind of understand how this item might me so much more to you than if it were just some random souvenir.

Wildcat

Yah, I was just BSing. Apologies. Please, don't ban me.

Anyway, never seen an entire episode of B5, like, in my entire life. Let alone even used Ebay. (I'm still in awe over the fact you can transfer money over the Internet now. Wow!) Someone give me a quick rundown on how a doll works into the equation.

This reminds me of when I was outbid on some pages of original comic artwork that I very much wanted because I had enjoyed the stories very much when I was younger. I later found the pages available for sale at much higher prices at the website of an internet comic art dealer. I researched him a little and found he has a prolific history of winning comic art auctions at the last possible second. I suspect he uses bidding software to bid so precisely, and then resells the pieces for profit. I was a little bitter about the whole experience. So much for finding good deals on eBay.

I notice Peter, that you were outbid by more than one person. That's gotta hurt.

Lynn

In a word...OUCH.

I keep trying to decide for myself if sniping is a Bad Thing, or just part of the game. I suppose I'm okay with it because there's plenty of gamesmanship in live auctions as well. And all auctions come down to one simple question: "who's willing to place the highest bid?" If you'd put in a bid of $100,000, and Pookie101 was only willing to go as high as $99,999, you'd own those puppies.

Your family would be eating Top Ramen for about nine years, and it'd take about that long before your wife would let you move back in from the garage...but you'd still have those two props. :)

And snipers have often prevented me from paying Holy Grail money for items that were, I later realized, merely Grail-shaped. I put in one single bid for the highest I'm willing to go, and if I'm outbid...well, hell, it went for more than I was willing to spend. The snipers remove the temptation to keep upping and upping and upping my so-called "maximum."

As the saying goes, everyone needs a Jewish mother. Just not two of them.

I've said the following a number of times: "I've one wife, and one mother; I don't need another of either."

My condolences, PAD.

And yeah, sniping can be a hassle. I remember, Valentine's Day week 2003, I was bidding on a run of Supergirl (1-74, plus the issue of Superman where Krypto rips out Mongul's throat). The auction ended on at about 11 PM on Friday the 14th, which as some of you may recall was also the opening day of the Daredevil movie. I went to a showing with some friends, and then we went to a donut place to hang. I checked my watch, realized what time it was, and literally broke every traffic law Atlanta has getting back to my apartment in time to place one last bid to ward off snipers. I made it from Lavista and Cheshire Bridge to Emory's Clairmont Campus in about 10 minutes. I'm lucky all the cops had better places to be than anywhere along my route.

I did win the auction. The journey of the comics to my door... that's another story.

I went to eBay and found the auction. I e-mailed the high bidder (pookie1001 not pookie101) and directed them to this site in the hopes that maybe they will be willing to part with it.

Well, at least you're being up front about being petty, and for understandable reasons.

How could Ebay address the 'sniping' issue? Forbid people from bidding in the last 5 seconds? Well, then, the snipers would set the programs to bid in the last 10-5 second period.

Sounds like you were "sniped"... that's one big reason I never seriously considered playing on eBay

And you're one less person getting in the way of the rest of us then, because only whiners complain about sniping. :)

I e-mailed the high bidder (pookie1001 not pookie101) and directed them to this site in the hopes that maybe they will be willing to part with it.

And, to be honest, if I were the high bidder, I'd probably tell you to go to hell.

Now, it sucks for PAD that he didn't win the auction, but, man, gimme a break: harrassing the winner (because, that's what you're doing) over it?

Damn, and I thought the price was already past the limits in the $2000 range.

What happened to the Bear?

I just wanted to add, for the sake of argument, that it looks like PAD tried to snipe, and was outsniped by two other people.

And none of the three are very good snipers. ;)

Just goes to show: bid once, bid late, bid the max you're willing to pay.

And to expand upon my comments a few minutes ago: there is NOTHING wrong with sniping. PAD could be just as irked if somebody had offered up that winning bid 5 minutes after the auction started.

But that's how eBay works: it's not a "going, going, gone" auction. You get to bid any time between when the auction begins, and when the auction ends.
And there is no guarantee, whatsoever, that a sniper is going to win the auction just because they waited until the end.

Yeah, what happened to the bear? I only saw one episode of B5 and that was it - I watched it just for the bear...._I'd_ bid on that!

How could Ebay address the 'sniping' issue? Forbid people from bidding in the last 5 seconds? Well, then, the snipers would set the programs to bid in the last 10-5 second period.

Well, would you could do is not arbitrarily shorten the auction by preventing any bidding in the last X seconds of an auction, but rather, you set it up so that the auction automatically extends if there's active bidding activity at the auction's close until that activity subsides (i.e. until there's a certain interval between active bids.)

So say there's an auction that's scheduled to end at noon on Thursday. If it's noon on Friday and nobody's bidding (or "sniping") then the auction ends. If there is active bidding, then the auction is continued for a certain interval--say ten seconds. So if a sniping bid is placed at 11:59:59 on Thursday, the auction's automatically extended for another ten seconds, allowing for additional bids. If/when ten seconds pass without an additional bid, then the auction ends.

I think some (less travelled) auciton sites have such a system. On the one hand, that sort of system might more closely simulate the "going, going, gone" of a traditional live auction. On the other hand, if you believe that sniping's no crime--that you should bid your absolute maximum and if you're outbid you should be content that the item sold for more than you really wanted to pay--then there's no reason to implement such a system.

But there are things you could do.

I never understood the problem with sniping. I put in exactly what I am willing to pay for an item. If someone bids higher (even if it's last second), they were willing to pay more than I was. Not much I can do about that.

I understand how you feel, I'd probably feel the same if it was me. It was a very good episode.

I looked at the bid history. I bid before you so you were trying to snipe too. I didn't use any sniping program, just stayed up till 5am and waited.

I wanted to own a part of babylon 5, I bid and I won. Sorry.

I think some (less travelled) auciton sites have such a system.

And thus you know why they are less travelled auction sites. ;)

As a seller, I would never use a GGG ("going, going, gone") auction if given the choice.

On the other hand, if you believe that sniping's no crime--that you should bid your absolute maximum and if you're outbid you should be content that the item sold for more than you really wanted to pay--then there's no reason to implement such a system.

Which is the way people *should* be using eBay. But they don't, for whatever reason.

People just like to demonize snipers for doing what's legal and what anybody is allowed to do.

Btw, I just watched an auction end. The winning bidder was the only bidder, and they put in their bid 2 days ago. See? It can be done.

I would've sniped, but the seller doesn't take Paypal. :)

"Sounds like you were "sniped"... that's one big reason I never seriously considered playing on eBay."

Actually the real sniper was some other person who came out of nowhere in the last sixty seconds. I was trying to increase my bid and collided with them putting in an identical bid at the same time. So I got an unfamiliar error message on ebay and by the time I figured out what was going on and tried to adjust, it was too late.

PAD

Kathy-
The Bear was given to Peter and used in an episode of Space Cases so I don't think it will show up on auction.
Kathleen

"I went to eBay and found the auction. I e-mailed the high bidder (pookie1001 not pookie101) and directed them to this site in the hopes that maybe they will be willing to part with it."

I wouldn't take it even if they offered it. It's theirs.

PAD

Apr-19-05 20:35:38 PDT was the time for Pad's first bid

Apr-19-05 20:42:39 PDT is Pookie's first bid.

Pookie bid first 7 minutes after Peter did and then ran the bid up to Peter's Max then Peter upped his max. This is was not snipping. Peter was the high bidder until 20:42. Pookie bid and Peter responded just as if this was live and there was a paddle being held up.

Kathleen

"I looked at the bid history. I bid before you so you were trying to snipe too. I didn't use any sniping program, just stayed up till 5am and waited."

You know, before I was pissed off, and was fully admitting that it was from pettiness on my part. But now you're actively lying and that's making me angry.

I never accused you of sniping. I said you beat me out in the last seconds, which is true. You, on the other hand, accuse *me* of sniping, which is not true. You also say you bid ahead of me, which is also not true. Check the record again. I put in my bid minutes before you ever surfaced.

PAD

And just for the record, "sniping" is something very specific. It's those people who show up for the first time in the last thirty seconds or so and try to outbid the high bidder by, like, ten dollars--maximum grab for minimal outlay. I didn't do anything resembling that.

PAD

I didn't do anything resembling that.

I dunno. Bidding for the first time with 11 minutes to go has at least got to somewhat resembling sniping. ;)

All in all, as I said, it was bad bidding on everybody's part: PAD, for not waiting to really try and snipe it, all three of you for bidding repeatedly and not just putting in a single bid and seeing what happens. ;)

Maybe that's an auction option eBay should allow: you get to put in a single bid, and no bids are displayed until the end of the auction.
Sure, you won't know until the end whether you won or lost, but none of this sniping and rebidding, etc.

And just for the record, "sniping" is something very specific. It's those people who show up for the first time in the last thirty seconds or so and try to outbid the high bidder by, like, ten dollars--maximum grab for minimal outlay. I didn't do anything resembling that.

That's another specific complaint about sniping that I don't understand. Why wouldn't your goal be "minimal outlay"?

By definition, nearly everybody who wins an eBay auction pays less than their maximum bid for the item. Whether my winning $120 maximum bid was placed five days or five seconds before the close of the auction, I sure don't feel guilty when I send off a check for $37.50.

I apologise. I looked at the order of previous bids, not the times. However, theres still about 5 minutes difference.

"It's those people who show up for the first time in the last thirty seconds or so and try to outbid the high bidder by, like, ten dollars--maximum grab for minimal outlay. I didn't do anything resembling that."

Neither did I.

[MODERATOR: Note Peter never said you did and even sited that you didn't do that. There was a third party at the end of the auction that was neither you nor Peter. We're all fine on these points.]

I got mad a couple times when I first got sniped on eBay, but now I shrug it off. If I see something I want, I bid my max and forget about it. If I win, great. If not, then that's life.

The way I look at it, if I get sniped, then (a.) I underbid, or (b.) The person who outbid me has some serious "stupid money," and they probably would have beat me out in a conventional auction anyway.

That being said, I understand the one-of-a-kind nature of your lost auction item, and for that, you have my sympathy.

I've never been a big fan. Recently I checked my history. Last time I used it was in '99. Mainly because most of the stuff I'm really interested in (books, movies) I can find elsewhere on the 'net for sale for less than they go for on ebay.

That said, there have been a few things (Buckaroo Banzai props and wardrobe) that I would've loved to had but finances precluded me from even taking a stab at it.

BTW - am I the only one that the finds the 'Preview' button totally useless here? Does nothing when I try and hit it.

Chris

Amazing that PAD wanted this item so badly but didn't make his first bid the maximum amount he would be pay for the item and still be satisfied with his purchase. Sounds like he ruined his own evening.

Eh, what surprises me is that JMS didn't offer the props to Peter before the auction. I guess it just slipped his mind.

-Joe

You have my sympathies, totally.

Without getting into specifics, quite a few years ago, I was being outbid for a pair of items that had sentimental value at a charity auction at a club event that almost everyone knew I wanted and knew *why* I wanted it.

Everyone except the person outbidding me.

And the kicker was, he didn't even *want* the items!

He just wanted to drive up the price, not to be an a-hole, but because he knew the money was going to a good charity, and the higher the bid, the more money the charity got.

A bunch of us *tried* to explain to him why wer were trying to bid for the items, and he was just clueless and kept rebidding. Eventually, he won the items, but I bought one of the parts from him.

It cost me a chunk of money for the weekend, and I wish I had gotten the complete set. Dang.

Amazing that PAD wanted this item so badly but didn't make his first bid the maximum amount he would be pay for the item and still be satisfied with his purchase.

That's not so amazing.

I've bid on items before and put in a "maximum," but as the auction has played out, re-evaluated that I was willing to pay a little more when/if I was outbid. In such cases, sometimes I win...sometimes I don't.

I don't hit eBay terribly much anymore. But, my own favorite "tactic" (if you will) is to set my maximum at a buck and some odd change above a "typical" maximum. (For instance, if my "maximum" on an item is, say, $25, I'll set my maximum to $26.63.) Since most people bid in even dollar incriments, it helps a bit.

Know exactly how you feel. For Fiddler's Green, the Sandman convention for the benefit of the CBLDF, I came up with the idea for two back-to-back panels. Panel 1, Neil Gaiman, Caitlin Kiernan, and Karen Berger write a two-page Sandman story. Panel 2, Jill Thompson, Charles Vess, and Todd Klein draw and letter the story.

Now, Neil didn't think this was a great idea; "No one will come, it'll be boring, etc.". Packed rooms for both items, people coming up after to tell me it's the highlight of the con, etc. Neil: "I still don't think people really liked it that much...".

That evening, the original script and art pages go up for auction. I really wanted them, since they existed due to my idea and pushing for it. I even got up at the podium, where Neil was doing the auctioning, and mentioned something nice I'd done for the whole con, and how this was my idea and I really wanted them in hopes of getting some sympathy.

Hah.

I drop out at $5,000.

At $9,000, I lean over to Neil and say "Think this was a good idea yet?". To his credit, he then said into the mike; "When this was first proposed, I didn't think it was a good idea. Now I think it was a *wonderful* idea!".

Went for $10,000. To an acquaintance of mine.

Hey, I just found the completed auction on eBay too and realized it was for two prop dolls made for the episode--the Londo figure used by the actors in a few scenes and a G'Kar figure that just sat in the background. That's pretty cool swag.

And spending $3500 per doll for two dolls sounds so much better somehow than spending $7000 for one. Not to rub salt into the wound, PAD...

Actually, I usually bid on an item on Ebay as soon as I see it. I set a max price and wait to see if I win.

In this case, I waited toward the end specifically *because* it was staying relatively low. My concern was that if I placed a bid early on, bidders might well recognize it was me (my on-line name isn't exactly secret) and not want to go up against me. Don't laugh; it's happened before ("You're my favorite writer and I didn't want to get this instead of you.") I wouldn't have cared if it was some random dealer or even Warner Bros., but since it was Joe getting the money, I didn't want to risk him getting shortchanged on the chance that B5 fans elected to keep clear of me.

When it was coming up on the ten minute mark, I figured, "Okay, I've given them plenty of time," then put in a bid that was several thousand above what was already there. It was the price I was willing to pay for it. And then Spiffy2099 or whatever came in at about the four minute mark and chipped away and chipped away and my bid kept holding up until s/he finally managed to climb over it. At which point I was faced with the age old question of how much one is willing to pay vs. how much one is unwilling to pay but will anyway. So I tried to jump back in, collided with a sixty-second sniper bidding the same thing I was, and got frozen out.

At least I don't have to worry about it happening again. That was the only prop I ever wanted from B5, so I won't be going after anything else.

On the plus side, I got a plush Duck Dodgers out of one of those crane toy machines today with one try, so the last 24 hours aren't a complete loss.

PAD

"MOLLARI!!!!...I'm going to get YOU!!!..a drink!"

Not that I'm stalking peter or anything, but I was curious. Peter has 100% positive feedback on ebay. Way to go! His recent purchases indicate he either wants more adventure in his life, or another disney vacation. Either way not quite the insightful look into peters mind that I was hoping for.

JAC

Yeah, usually the main thing I check on Ebay for is stuff from the Adventurers Club from Disney's Pleasure Island. There's several poor devils I've beaten out so regularly for assorted items that they must kind of moan whenever my name shows up. Gotten some really nice AC jackets and shirts, which usually go to Kath or Ariel since they don't fit me. Fortunately I have all the assorted pins and the Colonel watch, so whenever those come up, everyone else at Ebay has a clear field.

PAD

I was sniped today on 2 wizard of oz mego figures for my site by mommyoftwins, so I feel your pain.

JAC

"I was sniped today on 2 wizard of oz mego figures for my site by mommyoftwins, so I feel your pain."

Yeah, well, on the other hand, she had to carry twins to term, so you can take comfort in that she felt a whole lot of pain you'll never have to deal with...

PAD

First, I'd like to note to Pookie that I raised the "sniping" issue, and not Peter. I read his post and made a judgement without knowing enough of the information to actually *make* an accurate conclusion. I was the one who suggested it might be a "snipe" job... my fault, not Peter's.

John says:

"How could Ebay address the 'sniping' issue? Forbid people from bidding in the last 5 seconds?"

If an auction is within, say, 1 minute of closing, and a last minute bid is cast, they could easily tweak the code so that it adds another minute (or 5, or whatever) to the auction, to give others the chance to respond.

Craig J. Ries says:

"I dunno. Bidding for the first time with 11 minutes to go has at least got to somewhat resembling sniping."

Nah, that's just being lazy. I would see no sense in bidding on an item that has more than an hour left to close, unless there were no other bids yet, and one was needed to prevent the item from being sold for a certain asking price.

I suppose I would have less of a problem with "sniping" if there were a way for the auction site to block out the 'bots designed to do so within a fraction of a second. Not everybody is so technically inclined or driven by avarice to find such software, and I tend to be a fan of a level playing field. I'm bright enough to locate and utilize such a program, but I'd choose not to do so because I *do* consider it a chickens**t thing to do to someone -- especially the person posting the auction! So, I could never see an instance where I would fully condone the practice.

Wildcat

My commeserations, sir.

I recently got sniped on a set of Buckaroo Banzai storyboards from the film's production office at the last minute. Wouldn't have stung so bad except its my all time favorite movie and it happened on my birthday. :(

I have watched an auction for days, and bid in the last few minutes to win. Most of the time it doesn't work, because the professional bidders usually beat me out. However, I seem to win more often by a last few minute bid, instead of a several-day bidding war.

I think what really annoys just about everyone is the bidders with 2500+ won auctions always winning. I can count my wins on one hand because of the pros.

We're arguing over the finer points of sniping?

::shaking head::

I once got cheated out of Amazing Spider-Mans #121 and 122 but a crummy sniper. I put in a bid two days before the auction was over and some jerk outbid me 2 minutes before it was over. I got so mad that I went and bought them off of Milehighcomics.com, which luckily was having a sale at the same time. I spent more than I really wanted, and Chuck Rozanski benefitted from my rage.

Snipers are such a problem on Ebay anymore that I don't even bid on items unless I do it through a "Buy me now" and it's a price I'm willing to spend.

To the guy who keeps defending snipers, no it really isn't wrong or illegal, but I think it's bad form and lacks courtesy. Of course, this is America in 2005. Who cares about good form and courtesy anymore?

I've lost several eBay auctions to genuine sniping--as in, I had the high bid until (no exaggeration) two seconds before the end of the auction and someone jumped in with one second to go and got it. No kidding, I've actually sat there hitting Refresh as the final seconds counted down and lost the auction with one second to go.
Now, to put this in perspective, let's compare it to a transaction in the brick-and-mortar world: You go to the comic store looking for, oh, let's say, the Graphitti Designs Watchmen hardcover from 1988. Amazingly enough, you find one solitary copy of this seventeen-year-old limited-edition slipcased hardcover. It's marked up a little from its original $50.00 price, but it's the real deal. You pick it up, you've got it in your hands, you're walking to the counter and suddenly someone appears from nowhere, grabs it out of your hands, slaps a credit card on the counter and says, "MINE! YOU LOSE, SUCKER!"
That, my friends, is what it feels like to lose an eBay auction to a last-second bidder.
The difference, of course, is that you have the option of confronting the ambulatory sphincter who snatches the book out of your hands in the store, but you have no recourse against the guy who outbids you on the 'Bay with less time remaining than it takes for your screen to refresh.
And I know there's absolutely nothing illegal about it, and eBay couldn't care less how the auction ends as long as they collect their listing fees, but I still think it's a shitty way to do business.

Paul

The highest bid is the highest bid is the highest bid.

"I was sniped today on 2 wizard of oz mego figures for my site by mommyoftwins, so I feel your pain."
--------------------
"Yeah, well, on the other hand, she had to carry twins to term, so you can take comfort in that she felt a whole lot of pain you'll never have to deal with...

PAD"

-------------------------------------

Unless her handle is saying that she's a mother who typically comes out ahead in life. You know, "Mommy oft wins."

While I can't really consider "sniping" bad as a general concept due to EBay allowing you to place a max bid on how high you're willing to go and autobidding for you until that's exceeded, there is a simple way to stop it.

An auction has a set end time. However, if there's a bid in, say, the last five minutes before that end time, it turns into a dynamic duration; the auction ends when, say, 5 minutes has gone by without a bid. If there's a new bid within 5 minutes after a bid, the clock resets so the auction ends 5 minutes later.

I advise you all to go seach for Weird Al's "Ebay" song, or lyrics....and have a chuckle.

I don't object to last minute bidding as such, since I've had the opportunity to make my maximum bid ahead of time. However, it does annoy me that people can bid silly amounts. E.g. if I've bid $100.00 for an item, and someone beats me by bidding $100.21. I'd like to see a system where the minimum incremental value is proportional to the current bidding price, e.g. once it gets above $1000 you have to go up in $50 increments. The point being that I might say "Fine, if I'm willing to pay 100 quid, I'll be willing to throw in the extra 20p, but I don't want to go up by another 10 quid".

To put this in a bit of perspective:

October of 2000 my wife was bidding on a Batman movie crew jacket for me as a Christmas present. Actively watching it, making sure her bid(s) was still good. (Of which I was totally oblivious to at the time.)

She then got a phone call.

That's when we found out she had cancer.

By the time she composed herself and rechecked her bid (by that time the auction had been closed for over an hour), she found out she lost by $1. Someone came in the last 15 seconds and sniped.

So while she's been cancer free for 4+ years now, she's still pissed off at losing that one auction.

PAD, you tried, you lost. At least you didn't have that kind of distraction.....

PAD, don't be um, unproud of being a sore loser. Think of it more that you believe in a just and ordered universe where those who are worthy receive that which is theirs.

Or, at least, use THAT as an excuse...

If you bid on something on E-bay with over 1 minute left your a fool. Sorry just the way it is. Like in Poker you never show your hand make one bid with 10 seconds left and not a round number 26cents above is good way. I am sniper and pround of it only way also Ilook for auctions ending in early morning or very late at night. You find great deals than. BUT never never bid early....

I go to e-bay infrequently and always select "ending soonest" as a search option to see if I'll be just-missing something I want (usually comics). Even if the clock is down to 1 minute (or whatever) on something I desire I'm certainly gonna make a play for it. But I don't stake-out a particular auction to make deliberate last-second bids.

Not everybody is so technically inclined or driven by avarice to find such software, and I tend to be a fan of a level playing field.

Oh @#$%'ing please.

Level playing field? Ebay isn't a damn game.

Quit treating it like one and maybe you'll realize that people are there to WIN auctions.

I'm bright enough to locate and utilize such a program, but I'd choose not to do so because I *do* consider it a chickens**t thing to do to someone

Then I call bullshit and say you're not bright enough after all.

What is chickenshit is complaining about what other people are doing, when you either need to decide what you think the item is worth, and make your bid, or snipe for yourself.

Pat, are you also exceedingly proud of being semiliterate, with absolutely no clue about the proper used of punctuation, spacing, or capitalization?

Seems like at least as great an accomplishment from where I sit...

That should, of course, say "...the proper use..."

You'll have to forgive me - I was a tad annoyed.

I am sniper and pround of it

Nah, you're just a friggin douchebag and admiting it.

Thanks for posting, anyway!

E-Bay could end sniping and make more money by simply extending an auction by 1 minute every time some one made a bid within the last minute. This would cut down on people bidding an extra $1.00 with 2 seconds to go in the auction.

Of course, if I really want something, I mean really, really want it, then I bid so high no one is going to come in and sniple me. And if by some chance they do, then their going to feel it in their wallet the next morning.

Craig J. Ries says,

"Oh @#$%'ing please."

Etc., etc...

Well, you're certainly welcome to your own opinion. ;)

Wildcat

In many cases, snipers, especially when it comes to collectibles, are no different than douchebag dealers who show up at stores when they first open or when they're stocking, sweep up all the rares and collectibles, then resell them, jacking up the price. Sure, it's legal, capitalism at work, but it's still a prime example of shameless douchebaggery.

-Rex Hondo-

You go to the comic store looking for, oh, let's say, the Graphitti Designs Watchmen hardcover from 1988. It's marked up a little from its original $50.00 price, but it's the real deal. You pick it up, you've got it in your hands, you're walking to the counter and suddenly someone appears from nowhere, grabs it out of your hands, slaps a credit card on the counter and says, "MINE! YOU LOSE, SUCKER!"
That, my friends, is what it feels like to lose an eBay auction to a last-second bidder.
The difference, of course, is that you have the option of confronting the ambulatory sphincter who snatches the book out of your hands in the store, but you have no recourse against the guy who outbids you on the 'Bay with less time remaining than it takes for your screen to refresh.

Cut a little out of your post for brevity's sake.

Actually, your comparison is way off, whether you agree with sniping or not. While eBay has fixed price auctions, anything that can get sniped isn't one of them. It's an auction, generally defined as "the public sale of something to the highest bidder".

E-Bay could end sniping and make more money by simply extending an auction by 1 minute every time some one made a bid within the last minute.

Why would they? Or rather, why should they?

Ebay has NEVER been a "going, going, gone" auction site, which is something that, as the above quote shows, people continue to fail to grasp, even after all these years.

Well, you're certainly welcome to your own opinion. ;)

And, quite obviously, people you're entitled to live in your little world of ignorance.

Just don't be surprised when people kick you when you're down - ie, after you've become a sore loser, insulting snipers who are following the rules like every other bidder who *gasp* places a bid between the time the auction begins and it ends.

John Kirk: "I'd like to see a system where the minimum incremental value is proportional to the current bidding price"

But that's the way it works now...
http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/bid-increments.html

Personally, I buy a lot of stuff from Yahoo Japan auctions, and while the option to have a set ending time is available, most auctions there have an autoextend feature on the auction. If you bid in the last five minutes or so, the auction will automatically extend another few minutes. That way you can't be sniped, the auction bids tend to be really high for popular items where people constantly try to outbid each other at the end, and the auction can go one for more than an hour past when it was supposed to end. I've participated in that type of last-minute bidding with the autoextend, and it's a little annoying since you have to sit there and wonder if the other person is going to bid AGAIN in the the last minute, setting the clock back. And then you have to reevaluate your own bid AGAIN and decide if you want to go higher. One time a cel I was bidding on for a week at about $20 gradually climbed to over $300 in about an hour of extended auction bidding. And in the end I lost, but at least I made that other bidder pay dearly for it. ;) Although it takes more time, I think I prefer that to snipers. The chance to reevaluate what you are willing to pay is worth it. I wish ebay did auctions that way.

I've actually never used eBay (gasp!), but I can sympathize -- we just got into a minor bidding war on a house, so I certainly understand the "this is the limit we said we had, but is it really our limit or can we stretch it?" question. [We did stretch it, and we did get the house. Many sighs of relief.]

Condolences on not getting the Londo doll, though -- that would've been awfully cool. (We've been showing B5 to friends, and if memory serves they were howling pretty hard at the whole "gift shop" idea.)

TWL

That stinks about the auction. And losing to a sniper or not, it's still losing.

As to whether "sniping" is fair or not...Ebay isn't an auction house. It provides a service. Ebay probably could arrange for something where an active auction could be extended, but I don't know that this would make things "better." If ebay still works the way it did way back when I first joined, the seller, not ebay, sets the end date of an auction (with an outside limit, I think). While sellers want to get the highest price available, they also want to sell the item. If the auction gets extended because of active bidding, it might never end. Or maybe the seller needs funds by a certain date. Extending the auction might actually hurt the seller in that case.

Now, if ebay included the option to allow active auctions to continue, that would avoid such problems.

I do remember when ebay started sending out e-mail reminders about items you'd bid on, or were even just watching, reminding you that they were about to end. And now you get warnings when you've been outbid. But there's no real way to prevent someone from entering a bid at the last moment. Even in a real life auction house, someone that had previously not placed a bid could wait for the "going, going" and then raise their paddle to bid.

Sniping isn't really bad or good, it's just taking advantage of the rules. And for every bid won by a sniper, how many did that sniper lose because his last second bid wasn't high enough? Or how often did the sniper overpay because his last second bid was too high? They aren't cheaters or stealing anything.

And if ebay did add in automatic extensions, what is to stop bot programmers from creating a new bot to keep sniping up? Sure, they may be out more $$$, but you still lose.

-Joe (who rarely uses ebay, but is about 50/50 on winning auctions)

I learn more stuff here. It never even occurred to me that bidding at the last minute to win something is rude(of course, I've only tried eBay a couple times and lost every time).

My real reaction to this thread is you guys pay how much for DOLLS? (even with the sentimental attachment, I can't begin to think about spending money like that...)

"Even in a real life auction house, someone that had previously not placed a bid could wait for the 'going, going' and then raise their paddle to bid."

Yes, but when that happens, the auctioneer doesn't yell, "SOLD!" and end the auction, he says, "I have fifty-five (or whatever), do I have sixty-five? Seventy-five?" So the guy who bid fifty has the option of raising his bid in an effort to win the item, and bidding continues until there are no more bids. Watch the Barrett-Jackson Auto Auction sometime and you'll see auctions where the auctioneer will get to "Two hundred, going once! Two hundred, going twice!" and suddenly someone will come in with two-twenty-five, and it might end up going for three hundred.
If I've bid a hundred dollars, let's say, for a piece of trim for my vintage car, I might be willing to go $125 if I had to at the end. If it comes down to the last second and it goes for $105 because that's the next bid increment, I'd like the opportunity to decide if I want to go $110 or $125 after all...just like I would in an actual auction. If Mr. Last-second wants to go $150 or $175, God bless. All that needs to happen is for me to hit my absolute limit and get an instant outbid notice. It's happened before and I've dropped out.

Anyway. This debate can go on forever.

Paul

Absolutely, Paul. ebay is isn't an auction house. But from what I can figure, the opposition to sniping on ebay is that the sniper doesn't participate in the auction until the very end. And that those that do participate before the last 2 minutes have some proprietary right of last bid, or denial of bid. At an auction house, that's more or less true, but ebay is not and never has claimed to be an auction house.

It's just the rules of the game. I mean, when playing Monopoly, you don't pass up the chance to buy Boardwalk just because your opponent has been saying all game how much he wants to buy Boardwalk. If you land there before him, you buy it.

It never even occurred to me that bidding at the last minute to win something is rude(of course, I've only tried eBay a couple times and lost every time).

It's only rude to some.

I've heard some great stories over the years about snipers receiving some pretty nasty hate mail from other bidders at times.

For the rest of us, we realize that "them's the rules" and learned to play by them to our advantage (or, as Bobb have mentioned, potential disadvantage). :)

Bobb, I think you just succinctly summarized the whole argument. Well said.

I'll just point out that people who want to fight fire with fire for free can use web services that will snipe eBay auctions for them, such as auctionstealer.com. You tell it what auction to bid on, what your amount is, and it will submit your bid 5-10 seconds before the deadline. You can also pay to have it snipe closer to the deadline, but you don't have to.

I'll leave the debate over the ethical aspects of sniping to the philosophers. I mostly use eBay to find low-cost "Buy it now" items these days.

--R.J.

One other thing to consider: It's entirely possible that the person who is being considered a "snioper" just happened to come across that auction at the last second.

Possible. Not probable.

It's funny; earlier today I was just thinking about ebay. I've recently been using it to plug some gaps in my comic collection because it's often possible to find things I want cheaper than from a dealer. The problem is that adding transatlantic shipping can cut into that margin considerably.

I happened to notice that one good local online dealer was giving me prices that were around the same as I was seeing in several ebay auctions if I included the shipping costs, so I said to myself why not just buy from the dealer instead of staying up half the night to chase the auction?

Somehow that took all the fun out of it.

I don't think there's anything wrong with sniping. You simply input the maximum your willing to pay early on and wait to the end to see if you're the person who wanted it the most.

Finding out you were outbid early on, or at the last minute, it makes no difference. If you change your mind about how much you wanted to pay at the very last minute, then thats your fault. It couldn't be any easier to plan ahead.

-Jools

Pope Papaya
(it's better when you say it out loud)

Me: "I'd like to see a system where the minimum incremental value is proportional to the current bidding price"

Ralf Haring: But that's the way it works now...
http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/bid-increments.html

Hmm, good point, I hadn't realised that it went up like that. But rephrasing my original point slightly, I guess I'd like every bid price to be an exact multiple of the current increment. E.g. you could bid $100 or $102.50, but not $100.21.

Each time when I heard about the prices people are willing to pay for memorabilia I really wonder why film studios or whoever else makes and stores what is needed for movies and TV episodes don`t offer items on eBay or auction them otherwise. I think it is a shame that so much is destroyed, especially when I think about it how much could have been raised for charity.

I am sorry that you lost, PAD, but this is what eBay is about. Most of the time, we just leave a bid with a maximum amount and if we win it, it is fine, if not, it is ok as well. But if we really, really want something, sniping is what eBay is about, meaning the flutter and excitement. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn`t. It is the nature of the thing.

Each time when I heard about the prices people are willing to pay for memorabilia I really wonder why film studios or whoever else makes and stores what is needed for movies and TV episodes don`t offer items on eBay or auction them otherwise. I think it is a shame that so much is destroyed, especially when I think about it how much could have been raised for charity.

Of course, more and more do just that. I recall seeing eBay charity auctions of several seasons of Survivor props and Sex and the City props and costumes, for example, and I'm sure there are other examples, both from eBay and from other auction sites.

I've been sniped and I've also won things. I've also been hopelessly outbid by folks with much deeper pockets than mine on this latest series of JMS auctions. After getting sniped once or twice, I now bid with the most I'm willing to pay for an item, and if someone else wants it worse than me, they can have it. I also try not to get too attached to anything I'm bidding on, either.

My problem with ebay is that, in my experience as a seller, anyway, some of these snipers then turn around and get buyer's remorse and then not pay for their auction. The last time this happened to me, I waited the polite 72 hours for them to blow me off, and the next higher bidder had already found and bought the thing from someone else.

One thing to think about, Peter... this auction has gotten new readers to your blog (like me).

Peter: Not to create controversy (ha!), but it amazes me that JMS didn't have the sechel to pick up the phone and offer you the item(s) prior to putting them up. I mean, you do know each other, and you are friends, right? Jeez.

I always thought that if a new bidder comes in the autcion should automatically extend by a few hours or up to a day, to let the real auction atmosphere of "Going once, going twice..." commence.

This has nothing to do with this discussion, but i found something that kind of sums up my opinion of comics buying lately; Go to this link: http://archive.gamespy.com/comics/dorktower/

and check out the Friday, April 22nd 'issue'; you might get a laugh ^_^

Boy, you're not kidding when you say you're a sore loser. I would normally sympathize with your plight of losing out on something you really wanted, but threatening someone to not come near you with it just because you lost out on a piece of memorabilia lost all sympathy for you from me. I'd hate to see you after a failed bowling tournament. Yikes! Chill out dude!

"I would normally sympathize with your plight of losing out on something you really wanted, but threatening someone to not come near you with it just because you lost out on a piece of memorabilia
lost all sympathy from me to you."

Well, that would be troubling to me had I actually been looking for your sympathy, or anyone's. Since I wasn't, then I'm much less bothered.

PAD

If I was outbid by someone named Pookie, I'd be pissed too.

Well, that would be troubling to me had I actually been looking for your sympathy, or anyone's. Since I wasn't, then I'm much less bothered.

PAD

I guess I didn't state my case very well. My point wasn't that you were looking for sympathy but that maybe when you're pissed about something you should hold back on making public threats towards people which seem even by your own admission petty. I apologize for suggesting that you should treat someone you've never met like anything other than dirt. My mistake.

I bet Pookie1001 has been getting some heavy eBay-mail traffic lately.

"My point wasn't that you were looking for sympathy but that maybe when you're pissed about something you should hold back on making public threats towards people which seem even by your own admission petty."

Whereas I think that, what with it being my blog and all, I should say what I want when I want, and let the chips fall where they may.

And I'd appreciate if you stopped using the word "threat," which is about as aggressively perjorative as you can make, not to mention unfair. A threat is, "Come near me and I'll punch your lights out." All I said was that asking me to sign them would be a Very Bad Idea.

PAD

Whereas I think that, what with it being my blog and all, I should say what I want when I want, and let the chips fall where they may.

It is certainly your perogative to post whatever you want of course. Since you allow people to post here I assumed that you realized you could potentially hear opposing views or even criticism.

Even though you admitted you don't handle these situations well, I was a little unsure if you realized just how you would be perceived. Now I'm sure you don't care in any way shape or form how you are perceived. Probably for the best. That way you don't have to grow up.

And I'd appreciate if you stopped using the word "threat," which is about as aggressively perjorative as you can make, not to mention unfair. A threat is, "Come near me and I'll punch your lights out." All I said was that asking me to sign them would be a Very Bad Idea."

I apologize for using a term that you felt was perjorative, but in my defense:

From Dictionary.com

"threat·en ( P ) Pronunciation Key (thrtn)
v. threat·ened, threat·en·ing, threat·ens
v. tr.
1. To express a threat against.
2. To be a source of danger to; menace.
3. To give signs or warning of; portend.
4. To announce the possibility of in a threat.

The way I understand the definition, your statement fits all of the above, but especially #3. Perhaps you prefer "implied threat" or maybe "consequences", "advice" or "warning". At any rate, you strongly implied you would do something nasty to him if he came near you with the item which seemed more than a tad extreme. That's the way most people would handle the situation today though. No sense acting in a mature or polite manner when verbally lashing out in a public forum will do. After all it's his fault you didn't bid what you wanted for the item or that you didn't contact JMS to let him know you always wanted the item and offer him a fair price. But that would have been the intelligent thing to do and would have robbed you of your chance to throw a temper tantrum and blame someone else for your mistake.

Wow, this has turned into another really pleasant thread. Lighten up, people. Yeesh.