It's been a while since I wrote a comic with an ending that had fans going as completely batsh*t as they are with this one. Whad'ja think?
PAD
Posted by Peter David at April 7, 2005 11:34 PM | TrackBack | Other blogs commentingWell, that particular sentence at the end is one of the worst copouts in any story, but since it came from a character's mouth, and not as a line of narration, we can't take it as gospel. Plus, given everything Banner and the Hulk have endured so far on this island, neither can believe _anything_ their senses may tell them.
So, we've got a great cliffhanger.
Unless, of course, that line is actual fact. In that case, it's going to take some effort on your part to really make it work. Especially since you've stated in the past that you wouldn't just pick up right where you left off several years ago, as if nothing had happened.
Either way, I'm looking forward to the next issue.
Rick
That final page was hillarious. Seriously. It doesn't make a lick of sense in the overall context of the story, so of course PAD is having fun with us.
I firmly believe this. Truly, madly, deeply.
If its actually true, then I'll post pictures of me eating Hulk # 80.
final page aside, this arc is kicking mucho assero. Consistently and throughly. The flashback stuff is great, I really dug the bomb that was dropped. I still don't know what the hell is going on, but I like it like that.
I noticed a bit of 4th wall bashing, when Banner mentioned how it seemed like a plot that was being made up as it went along. Liked the Kang cameo, and Banner's response.
Good stuff. For the love of God, PAD, never leave this book again.
First, let me say I loved the issue, but it didn't beat the Fin Fang Foom fight.
Second, Bruce said my exact thougths about his encounter with Wolverine.
Third, if the final page is true, I can live with it. I won't like it, but it is not horrible. But somehow I don't think all is yet known.
Bottom line, I can't wait for the next issue.
Side note: With all of the past comparisons to Lost and Buffy, the ending does have shades of Buffy all over it. Which is why I am convinced there is yet another shoe to drop. PAD is too original for that not to be the case. However it turns out, we don't yet know the whole story. (If for no other reason, there seems to be 2 other "independent" minds involved on the island, but we will see.)
Iowa Jim
Loved that final line. It would have made me laugh out loud while erading it, if I hadn't had my lips sown together last week in an attempt to stop such embarrassing outbursts (particularly when I'm reading in public), as it was I made a strange gurgling sound in my throat.
More to the point, I'm intrigued by the girl with green hair. I hope this is going somewhere for the long-term, because at the moment it's got my interest peaked.
Frankly, sir, I'm amazed you actually went through with it.
When you told me a few months back what you were planning for the end of this issue, I said that there was a good chance the fans were going to slaughter you. You pointed out that other folks and crossovers and the like had screwed up your continuity enough, wouldn't turnabout be fair play?
But nobody would expect you to play the "everything you know for the last XX issues is wrong" card, I said. Exactly, you said, that's why I'm playing it.
You're a cruel bastard, you are.
Oh, BTW, Tallest: it's a lot easier to eat if you soak the book in apple or orange juice first-- the acids liquify the book more completely than just dunking it in water. And of course, remove the staples first.
loved it!
loved the "ending"!
loved the Bruce's rant!
loved the dream Rick... I mean Rip being so blind as to not see the danger he was in...
I love this Nightmare tale....
I don't believe it for a second. Why bother developing the mystery of Ross and Ripley and Gwen to have it turn out to be in Banner's head, ergo its another illusion. Nice that you described nost of the stories before now as being a very BAD BAD dream. P.S minor gripe but Samson didnt actually lose an eye, he just wore the eyepatch because the home base Guys had implanted a camera there.
Another really good issue. This story has been very enjoyable. I wondered how long it would be before someone accused you of ripping off LOST. I was happy to see your editor nip that in the bud quickly.
Bobby
Loved it! Hope the ending is is the truth, but don't think it is.
Nope, no way the ending is true. This was a mini-series and the toys would have to be put back where they were found when PAD was done playing with them....but maybe the next arc this would mean something because he would be the regular writer.
Hard to believe ANYONE is taking that ending seriously, after the parade of "No, THIS is the truth!" we've had the past two issues. :)
(Nitpicky asides: one kicks mucho culo, not mucho assero, and one's interest is piqued. Be warned, though, culo is considerably more vulgar than "ass".)
Of course the ending isn't real. PAD is giving us too many scenes with the other characters to wipe it all out as a BAD DREAM. And has no one noticed the biggest clue he gave. Look at the reflection of Professor Yarish in the last panel of page 3.
killin' me...killin' me...killin' me...killin' me...killin' me...killin' me...killin' me...killin' me...
having just recently moved, i only just started placing orders thru an online retailer...obviously, my Hulk #80 isn't here yet...won't be here before the weekend...i really don't even know WHEN it will be here...and I've got to contend with Peter talking about an ending that's driving fans batsh!t.
killin' me...killin' me...killin' me...killin' me...killin' me...killin' me...killin' me...killin' me...
So... what? The shark is still alive?
Curse you PAD!!!! Curse you!!!
I'm just happy to be seeing anything interesting when I pick up an issue of the Hulk. The whole spy war/x-files thing they had going on was pretty boring. They brought Betty back and it seemed like none of the main characters even cared, which was really odd to be considering that Banner almost went insaine over her death.
The ending is most likely just another island illusion. Peter David wouldn't have bothered with this back story of the two kids running around the island with General Ross, or of Banners flashbacks to his highschool days, if it wasn't all leading up to somthing that was going to link all of these events together in part 5.
Whats up with the black haired chicks hair turning green? Betty clone? Banners long lost kids? She kinda looks like the girl he had a crush on in High School, and the blind guy kinda looks like the boy who put him in the hospital. Can't wait to see what all of these random events are leading up to in part 5.
Mike Porter
Snort!
Heh.
Oh, whatever.
It's just a good read.
And that's what I ask for.
Travis
Fantastic issue. Some of the dialogue on the final few pages felt rushed, but maybe that was because I was reading it so quickly...rushing to the end.
I actually laughed out loud when Bruce said, "You...you didn't lose an eye?" and Samson answered, "Uh...no."
I don't think the last seven years have been a dream, but I am interested to see you resolve all this in an issue. Twenty-eight days and counting...
Oh, please, let it be true. Let everything in the past four years be a dream. Reset the clock, continue with the storyline that preceded "Heroes Reborn," bring the Hulk back to glory!
Amen.
Best ending ever.....
Actually I know you are playing with us but I gotta admit having everything that has happened since you left disappear would be my fan wish come true.
>>Posted by Mike at April 8, 2005 09:48 AM
So... what? The shark is still alive?
Curse you PAD!!!! Curse you!!
:D
Although I don't believe it to be true and instead believe it to be a commentary on those writers who use such plot devices, IF it were true, then even part of PAD's run goes by the wayside. But, more importantly, I CAN'T WAIT FOR ISSUE #81!
Didn't a season of Dallas end this way?!?
I loved ever minute of the book, I can't wait to see where you are taking the characters.
Regards:
Warren S. Jones III
From these comments it seems to me that a lot of other people had the same response I did.
Stage 1: Shock "No way!"
Stage 2: Triumphant "That would be so cool!"
Stage 3: Realization "Between the fact that there have been so many false twists, and that there are two other active sub-plots, there's no way this is true."
Stage 4: Acceptance "Oh well I guess :("
So yeah, wish it were true, but there's no way in hell.
I don't buy it at all, but I admire the balls it took to try it anyway.
I've got it all figured out. Bruce actually has an autistic son named Tommy, and everything we've seen for the last 40+ has actually been a fantasy played out in HIS mind. On the last page Bruce will wake up in bed next to the green-haired girl who he always thought was his wife Jarella--only to discover it's actually Susanne Pleshette. And then, to escape this insanity, he'll jump into his personalized Holodeck and go pal around with Barclay. Oh, and somewhere along the way, Brad Pitt will beat the @!*$!#*! out of him.
It's been a while since I wrote a comic with an ending that had fans going as completely batsh*t as they are with this one.
What, is this a trick of reverse psychology? You tell us we will go wacko over the ending, so all we can then do is gush? Well it's not going to work. . . wait, I liked the issue *before* I read your post. My head hurts. . . maybe this is all just a dream . . . . . . .
Iowa Jim
Heh heh heh.
You ARE an evil bastard.
I mean, is this fakeout (the "it's all a dream" ending is, in fact, all a dream."), or a double-fakeout ("They're all going to THINK it's a fakeout, so I'll make it real!"), or a double-backward fakeout ("Psych! It really WAS a fakeout!"). Me, I think it was a double-secret-triple-fake-fakeout ("It's all Leonard Samson's dream and he wakes up next to Suzanne Pleshette and says "we need to wear more sweaters.")
Whatever. My heads hurts. Keep it up.
The poop joke made me laugh.
(Skips over the 29 previous comments)
Okay, I know what I'm reading as soon as I get home tonight...
Paul
The last page is really interesting, because on the surface, someone net basher could read it as "Oh, PAD was ticked off about the years he got off the book and wants to revert it back to when he started. Whatta hack! Blah blah blah" And then bitch accordingly.
Now, while it would be fun to hit the ole Reset Button Hulk's continuity, I still don't buy it. Seems too easy for something PAD would do. Makes for a great cliffhanger, anyway. Definitely best issue ender of this series.
But it doesn't work because: A) everything else that's going on in the book B) Letter col. for issue 78 had the editor saying something to the effect of "its good that Peter is acknowledging the Hulk went on after he left". I'd don't think he'd want to make a liar out of his own statement. C) if "it was all a dream" does happen, how in the bloody sam-freakin-hill does the cover of issue 81 come into play?! If he's really back in the post-pantheon days, where does a Hulk'ed out Horse & Mace fit into the whole thing?!
All that makes me believe this isn't the "real" ending. Great way to mess with the audience. Or the more gullible ones, at least.
Unless this *is* a reverse-fake out, then I'm totally screwed.
Dammit, I don't wanna eat a comic book here!
Ugh.
*goes and gets some orange juice*
If he's really back in the post-pantheon days, where does a Hulk'ed out Horse & Mace fit into the whole thing?!
Pantheon was all Greek mythology stuff..it's a gift, all Trojan like.
Hmm...I'm guessing it's a fakeout.
If it's true, though, who were the Thunderbolts fighting in their first appearance?
You know...there's one thing that makes me thing there could be a bit more truth to this...
"House of M"
DneColt's post reminds me of the episode of TNG where Riker keeps flashing back and forth between the Enterprise and a mental ward (which was also used in "Normal Again," my least favorite Buffy ep ever), and at the end he "breaks" through several delusions before waking up in [it would spoil the ending].
That dream/delusion thing has been used a lot: St. Elsewhere, Dallas, the Newhart show where he had the hotel, those two eps I've just referenced, and probably more. *wonders if anyone's ever catalogued them all*
unfortunitly, I won't get to a comic book shop until saturday. I've enjoyed the story so far, and after hearing such great things about this ending, this has to be interesting. Also, this is on my "Top 5 Issues of the Month." (the other 3 are Star Wars (all leading up to RotS) and GLA (for some strange reason I don't think Great Lakes Avengers is going to do very well)
Even though the ending is still a mystery, I was just happy to see Pirate Samson gone.
Well, I'm certain that last page was part of the plot... to take things way back to Hulk 426, PAD would be ignoring a big chunk of his own stories, as well. But this arc has been awesome. PAD, please never leave this title again. I have one question, though, that the final page reminded me of: Any chances of the Pantheon coming back, at least a few members? They were some great characters. Ah, to hear (or read) Paris call the Hulk "Bobby" again...
I LOVED IT. I think we are most likely being faked out, but I hold out hope that maybe the book really will "time-warp"' - I never liked the way the merged Hulk just kinda vanished after Heroes Reborn, seemingly never to be acknowledged by Banner or anyone else again. Either way, this arc has been awesome. Thank you, PAD.
I'm even more confused now than I was after reading Book Two. Is it because I'm dumb, missed the first book in the five-part arc, or is it because comics today are designed for the hard-core fans who have followed a particular title since Day One?
By the way, there isn't a U.S. general on the planet who wears such a huge belt, especially on the outside of a dress uniform. Gen. Ross looks like Santa Claus.
Stupid question but is Banner flashback to his time in HIGH SCHOOL or COLLEGE?
The students act like high schoolers but look like college students and the classrooms are too vague to tell. It's been driving me nuts (er, pun not intended).
-- Ken from Chicago
This is really Peter David at top form. The pacing and the humour really gives it a zing that I find in very few comics these days.
Well- I'm pretty sure the end is not "true" since this was going to be a stand alone mini at one point.
"Stupid question but is Banner flashback to his time in HIGH SCHOOL or COLLEGE? "
High school
I see people saying it can't be for real because it was originally a mini. But originally it was also six issues, not 5. And originally PAD wasn't going to be writing House of M tie-in stuff.
I wouldn't mind at all if the past ten years of the Hulk didn't happen. After all, I still got to read the PAD stuff (erasing 5 years worth of that?! It's unusual to mess with your own stories, so it feels even more realistic somehow), I can always reread it, and maybe now we can boldly go forward while possibly working on all these cool ideas we never really got to see because of Peter's untimely departure from the book.
I hope the intention is to show that this particular cliffhanger isn't right, and then somehow that gives Bruce the idea to *make* it so anyway, to get rid of all the insanity (and boredom too), and to get Betty back :) Playing with our preconceptions is always a good way to mess with our heads (we know it can't be true because the Hulk was a vital part of several "real" stories, but then they're all real, once they've been written, aren't they?)
Interestingly, it would actually work if simply the boring, pretentious years would get ignored. Because what impact has the Hulk had on the MU since Bruce Jones was writing him anyway? So I'm all for it! Didn't hurt Dallas all that much, did it? ;)
semi-off topic:
Here's a sneek peek at the House of M Hulk. More WTF is on the way, folks. My brain. It hurts.
(PS - spoilers)
http://www.newsarama.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=793834
You can just tell PAD has been itching for big green, can't you? This is comicbooking done right. Masterfully. Everything builds up to the last installment, and has got everyone guessing and confused (in the good way), waiting for the writer to tie it all up - because he's the only person in the whole wide world who actually KNOWS what the hell is going on.
Heh... PAD better have a very satisfactory ribbon for this story... or people are going to go apeshit on his ass for months.
Infact, the story is so damn good you practically forget there's an artist (and a hell of one) involved in there, you flip the pages so fast. Can't wait for next issue to sit and read the whole thing in one go.
Favorite line? "Bing Bang Boom"...
I love this arc.
I have only one question as we head for the grand finale.
Are those Mindless Ones I keep seeing? At first I thought they were the Leader's robots but...
Sliding towards sunrise,
Brian Jordan, who suspects this is too much fun to be legal.
Hi,
please a kind fellow PAD.net reader/poster post here the titles and issue numbers of all the Hulk-related comics Peter David wrote which were released after ' Hulk : the End ' came out.
Thanks
PAD, please let this be true!!!!! As much as I loved all of your issues up to 477, I want to forget all of the crap that followed after you left(with the exception of Priest's TIH # 31). I just want to start over again at #426! PLEASE!
Great news on the Hulk front (cover fronts that is). Marvel has posted a few sample sketches for House of M, and the first picture is of Hulk 83! ( http://marvel.com/globals/view_generic.htm?filename=/publishing/stories/hom/P11_lg.jpg )
Marvel is also coming out with a House of M sketchbook which may contain more sneak peak pictures of the Hulk.
This whole ordeal is giving me flashes of JACOB'S LADDER...
please a kind fellow PAD.net reader/poster post here the titles and issue numbers of all the Hulk-related comics Peter David wrote which were released after ' Hulk : the End ' came out.
Hulk: What If General Ross Became The Hulk
Hulk issues 78-80
thats it.
So, with all the Mindless Ones showing up & the sheer amount of power it should take to muck with Reality like that, who else would like to think Dormammu is behind this? The motivations are uncertain of course. Would the woman with green hair be a new heir to take Clea's place and why involve the Hulk in the first place? Driving him nuts would be a good way to brainwash him to a new bodyguard of course, but it's more like Nightmare's modus operandi. Then again for all I know3, someone else is using the MO's and the woman is just the now gamma-powered Betty or some other individual. Hmm...
[quote]P.S minor gripe but Samson didnt actually lose an eye, he just wore the eyepatch because the home base Guys had implanted a camera there.[/quote]Yup, though the Leader's recent history never made sense to me. First he's possessing Omnibus, then a polar bear... Much later he's suddenly turning up mutated with new power & in search of Nirvana in the desert, contacts something scary in another dimension &... Later still he's a big head in a tank intent on driving Bruce to a nervous breakdown through consistently hounding him. Ok...
Btw: I checked out the preview images linked above. They look very nice indeed. They seem to put Hulk into the position of some sort of clan leader, but I may be mistaken.
Who is that green-haired woman next to him? Betty? The same one seen in this issue? Both? It's so great to see Peter in such good writing form. :)
Okay. I held out on reading this thread until after I read the issue so as to avoid any spoilers (other than the knowledge that SOMETHING nutso happened on the last page); and held out on reading the issue until last among my purchases since I was anticipating it the most :) So, having now read both, a couple of reactions to this thread first, then #80 itself.
Michael Pullmann: Yes, didn't "Normal Again" suck? On repeated viewings I have found some things to like in it, but overall .... Worst of all, of course, the "shock" denounment - which was the last image of BtVS we had for five weeks (or more?). Have you heard the director's commentary, where writer and director say they wish that could have been the last moment of the SEASON? Like it wasn't enough of a giant flip-off of the fans as it was ....
R. Maheras: Hey, between my brother and myself, we have every issue of PAD's first Hulk run, and I still have no idea what's going on :)
Incredible Hulk # 80: Very good. I don't believe the last page, either, but I did have the
"Wouldn't THAT be cool" reaction, too. Which, come to think of it, seems a little odd, considering I just ripped the "it was all a dream" ep of BtVS. But - the Buffy ep would have wiped out EVERYTHING in the series, this Hulk turn only several years, much of which has huge continuity problems and characterization inconsistencies. (Plus, the Buffy ended with a final view of her in the asylum, trying to shock cheaply; this Bruce in the asylum - and cleverly referencing a time he really WAS in one - was a genuine surprise.) Like I said above I'm really not sure where this is going, but I do agree the Mindless Ones (or whatever) must be significant, and the Gwen and Rip(ley? THAT mean anything?) characters do seem to indicate the asylum is another trick. Whoever is manipulating this realized Bruce was getting too close to figuring things out, and so upset his expectations? Anyway, it's going to be interesting to see HOW this can be cleared up in one issue, but I'm definitely enjoying the ride. Oh - and the Bruce flashback is more than a little scary .... Assuming the high school flashbacks are true, and not just more of the confuse-Bruce/Hulk deal, we seem to be geeting more explanation for why Bruce would design a BOMB for the military .... Good stuff.
Re: #80....as I've said elsewhere (on my blog, for instance), am I totally loonytoons for even suggesting this, or does it seem, between the illusions of people the Hulk's met before, and the fact these apparently alien creatures are being used as bodies to graft said illusions onto...well, I'd *swear* this is the Shaper of Worlds and his apprentice, Glorian's M.O. Hmm....
Time, and #81, will tell, I guess. Although I am still stymied by the mysterious character behind-the-scenes in #78.
~G.
Luke- Never bothered to watch it more than the once, and honestly wish I'd missed out the first time.
Gary- Well, great. Now Peter and Lee have to do a whole new issue 81 in three weeks. I hope you're happy with yourself, young man.
Who is that green-haired woman next to him?
I believe that is supposed to be the new Scorpion from Amazing Fantasy, but don't quote me on that.
please a kind fellow PAD.net reader/poster post here the titles and issue numbers of all the Hulk-related comics Peter David wrote which were released after ' Hulk : the End ' came out.
Hulk: What If General Ross Became The Hulk
Hulk issues 78-80
thats it.
The Hulk also guest starred in Captain Marvel issues 2 and 3 written by PAD. This would be the pre "U-Decide" issues 2 and 3.
I completely stopped reading when PAD left the book late in the 2nd series run, and SWORE I would never buy another copy till he returned.
I dont know if I'd say I went batsh*t over the ending as much as I went batsh*t over the prospect of Hulk returning to his glory days with the pantheon, although knowing PAd (and in keeping with the theme of the story) Im sure its all (entertaining) B.S.
BTW, no one mentioning the cool ass wolvie fight? Really makes that little hairball look like a p*ss when we see how a real encounter between the two would probably play out
*wolvie scratches hulk*
*hulk laughs then smashs wolvie into furry paste*
1Ok. I'd like to believe that most of the last couple of years as been a dream, but that wouldn't be very satisfying. So, I can't wait till I find out what's next.
Fun issue. I also was reminded of Bobby's shower scene in Dallas with the final page. I had forgotten how much of a thrill ride that reading PAD's Hulk was based on the fact that, unlike most other comics, I had stopped actively attempting to figure out where the ride would end and simply kept my arms and head inside the moviing vehicle. Some vague guesses occassionaly, but mostly just reading to see what comes next and leaving it at that.
Fred
"I'd *swear* this is the Shaper of Worlds and his apprentice, Glorian's M.O. Hmm...." That makes sense and would fit with 'General Ross' seeking for a new apprentice, though I don't know why the SHaper would use the MO's for that?
"BTW, no one mentioning the cool ass wolvie fight? Really makes that little hairball look like a p*ss when we see how a real encounter between the two would probably play out" Nah, if the writers were allowed to actually play the two in terms of actual ability and not always be forced to suck up to Wolvie fans, I'd have to agree with Erik Larsen: Wolvie doesn't have anywhere near the sheer power behind his thrusts to actually injure the Hulk. Not to mention, the Hulk is the one character in the MU consistently shown as capable of crushing _pure_ adamantium with his two hands. Wolvie would be ready for the scrap heap when Hulk was through with him. ;)
Heck the last Defenders run even showed him as having a higher level of pure power than even the Silver Surfer these days, when breaking out of a force-bubble the Surfer & Dr. Strange couldn't budge. It'd be fun to see PAD play into the fact that it seems virtually unanymously decided that Hulk has the greatest amount of sheer power to throw around in the MU (with the possible exceptions of Sentry & Count Nefaria). :)
""I'd *swear* this is the Shaper of Worlds and his apprentice, Glorian's M.O. Hmm...." That makes sense and would fit with 'General Ross' seeking for a new apprentice, though I don't know why the SHaper would use the MO's for that?"
Maybe it's not so much the Shaper trying to do what he's doing, but it's Glorian, rebelling against his creator, creating this fantasy island to trap the Hulk, and the Gwen girl (who, to follow the Ross = Shaper theory, is the Shaper's new apprentice, meant to replace Glorian). The Shaper, as Ross, then, would be there to protect his own interests, and maybe get some help from the Hulk...which begs the question: why bother, unless the Shaper has been depowered? In which case, where's the power gone? Obvious answer: Glorian's got it, and it's making him even more nuts than usual.
Of course, I could be full of B.S...
~G.
It would be really lovely if one of the worst stretches of HULK history had all been just a particularly nasty dream on Bruce's part, but in all likelihood, this is just the bad guy of TEMPEST FUGIT trying to give Bruce another mindf***. There are simply too many loose ends, too many subplots, for the "It was AAAAAAAAAAAALL a dream, Brucie!" scenario to work out. I'm expecting Bruce to snap in Doc Samson's face in the first panel of issue 81, "Oh, please." I mean, c'mon - the guy has a brain between his ears. He wouldn't be duped THAT easily, after all the endless stream of bull that's been thrown at him in the past by the likes of Nightmare, the Leader, Tyrannus - oh, I could go on. Still, if there's nothing Peter seems to like more, it's subverting the expectations of the fans, both new and old. (In a good, sneaky, creative kind-of-way, of course.)
Again I say I wish the /hope the ending is true but....
As to everyone thinking it's false because of the Gwen & Ripley characters, both of those characters have realised that "this doesn't make any sense" as well.
All 3 of them could be trapped in a group hallucination in the asylum and Banner simply figured it out first because he's a genius.
The sinister blank-characters and the glimpse of the so-called master-mind could be legit hints at who is placing these 3 asylum patients into the group illusion and that there is something about Gwen that he does want.
I know this is officially the June issue...but I can't help noticing this was released the first week in April...
And I'll quote Associate Editor Andy Schmidt from the Letters column in Part III: "I'd be a bit miffed if [PAD] came out saying, "none of the last 5 years mattered!" That'd just be downright indignant, and I'm pleased that that isn't the take we've put out there."
Oh man this is my first post here.. and after reading hulk 80 i had to post. PLEASE LET THE LAST FEW YEARS OF THE HULK BE A BAD DREAM! I would love this.. I hated caseys hulk run, then byrnes horrific hulk run, the paul jenkins stuff was decent and then bruce jones run was awful. the last few years being a dream is the best thing that could happen in the hulkverse.. PAD back on the hulk is a dream come true! im enjoying my favorite character again..
shouldn't it be : hulk 77->80->...
and didn't those captain marvel issues come out earlier than than ' hulk : the end ' ?
????
I'm no Sherlock Holmes, but piecing together real world comments by PAD and others leads me to believe that you can't be sure that this is just a swerve.
In fact, I think there's a good chance the ending IS real.
Look at Glenn's comments:
"Posted by Glenn Hauman at April 8, 2005 04:48 AM
Frankly, sir, I'm amazed you actually went through with it.
When you told me a few months back what you were planning for the end of this issue, I said that there was a good chance the fans were going to slaughter you. You pointed out that other folks and crossovers and the like had screwed up your continuity enough, wouldn't turnabout be fair play?
But nobody would expect you to play the "everything you know for the last XX issues is wrong" card, I said. Exactly, you said, that's why I'm playing it.
You're a cruel bastard, you are.
Posted by Glenn Hauman at April 8, 2005 04:50 AM
Oh, BTW, Tallest: it's a lot easier to eat if you soak the book in apple or orange juice first-- the acids liquify the book more completely than just dunking it in water. And of course, remove the staples first."
And the fact it was meant for a mini - makes you think PAD couldn't be trashing the past few years. But then again - why not?
I wonder how Bruce Jones will feel if it turns out to be a Dallas moment.
And frankly, the fact that the Hulk was involved in some "real" world stories wouldn't matter. Geez - we've got carlet Witch making everyone think there someone else and the world's gone upside down - so big deal.
Marvel wouldn't care if re-setting back to the end of PAD's run would effect continuity. They've said it time and again that they simply want good stories - and that is what this is.
And we also know that PAD is a continuity buff - so you add that all together and I think we may be back to the end of Peter's run.
I don't think it's because PAD needs to reset continuity to continue writing the Hulk. I think it's because he can.
PAD smash!
First, PAD is the man. Wow, wow, wow! It is so awesome to have him back on the book.
Is this all a bad dream? PAD just wiped out 10 years of continuity. I think I have a 70% chance of being right that it does go all the way back to issue #426. Why? Well PAD had to find some way to right this ship, so much damage was done with the Hulk since PAD left. Issue #426 is the most logical point for that to occurr, if you haven't pulled out your back issue do it now. The psycho ward is almost scene for scene and Doc Samson is exactly the same in #80 as he was in #426. The next issue, #427, picks up 6 months later and does not give us any indication of what took place. Great point to reset the series. I know many of you will say what about the crossovers, Heroes Reborn stuff and how can he wipe out 10 years. Well boys and girls, continuity means crap as of late with Marvel, it is not too far off to believe that Marvel Execs would let PAD do whatever he wants.
I think the villian is Banner himself. His mind is so splintered and has so many different versions of the Hulk running around in his noggin that all of them are battling for control.
Well I am more than likely wrong considering the fact rumors circled that PAD was going to wipe out everything with a dream segment. Well, he gave everyone what they were talking about with #80 and now he can shock us all again with the end of #81. It's almost too obvious and PAD gave many of us what we wanted, all the post-PAD stuff that we had to swallow was in fact a nightmare.
By the way anyone notice that Wolvie's costume was the same as it was in issue #181? Identically the same. Mean something?
Well, I'm off to drink some more of my bath water, mmmmmm, good...
Excellent issue.
I'm glad this is a medium where you can express what is going on with the overall Hulk plot and your own personal direction/drama with the character. You are sticking to the psychology of the Hulk, which the fans love, and are mixing in the "production politics" of making the comic. This is done well as we are all aware of what has happened over the years, it plays on the strictness of comic continuity and at the same time reflects the real world story. Even if it is just a tease the real world issues make it a better story.
I liked the issue a lot however I don't get Banner. I really liked Banner in HULK #364-377 because you had a sence of his ambition. He was looking for his wife and he had personality. Now I don't have a sence of empathy for him or an understanding of him. The flashbacks are too extreme and over the top. Super calous girls, extreme bullying, a MPD so extreme which no one notices, and potentially some type of bomb(?). I feel out of context.
I think a better avenue would be to examine Banner's isolation though his brilliance that limits his socalable interactions. He just can't care or relate because thoses elements of the human condition are in the Hulk. There could be a great statement on whether education produces moral beings capable of being human (husbands/ fathers/ friends/ community members) and not just men of science or knowledge or clever machines.
The art was great (that sounds so understated) and I look forward the next issue.
Thanks!
I was fine with the issue up to the point where Wolvie stabs Bruce in the chest--that would have been a great place to end the issue. But that last page? Annoyed. The. Crap. Out. Of. Me. Even assuming that it's a joke or a feint, the whole "it's nothing but a dream/in your head" thing has been was beaten to death by writers ages ago. Seeing it resurrected--even as a fakeout (which it has to be, right? RIGHT?)--made me cringe.
"Didn't hurt 'Dallas' all that much, did it?"
Well, yeah, actually it did. Because telling people they basically wasted their time watching a whole season of a show tends to piss off fans. The show went back to being stale and predictable, since the new characters and storylines were "all a dream".
I would like to join the others who feel this is one big feint on PAD's part. At least I hope so. I mean, really, not only would this proposed "dream" wipe out Bruce Jones's work, it would wipe out about FOUR YEARS of PAD's run as well. The "madder he gets the weaker he gets" version, the public disgrace of talbot as he shot Betty in the legs, the awesome fight with Thor, Hulk as an agent of Apocalypse, etc.
Also, it is quite rude for people to take joy in possibility of completely tossing aside all of the stories done by all of the writers and artists since PAD left, simply because they are his fans.
Heck, a hack like Terry Kavanagh can hit the reset button on a longstanding character. A truly gifted writer- which PAD obviously is - can choose his own path and in the process find a way to work out the kinks in the storylines as they have been told up to this point.
I REALLY hope this ending was a fakeout.
PAD's return brought me back to HULK and this is better than I'd hoped. Personally I wouldn't mind a lot being wiped, but in a previous issue wasn't there someone watching everything on monitors? All we saw of this figure was what appeared to be a red arm and pointed fingernails.
is there any way PAD that you can convince marvel to make lee weeks the regular artist on the book? i know we've got jae lee and jorge lucas coming up, but for whatever remainder of your run that is left, can it pleeeeeaaaaaase be lee weeks doing the art?
http://www.hulkmovie.com/news/03_24b_05.htm
The site mentions information on issues 83-86, which will tie into House of M.
The story will also lead up to an unamed new ongoing series for later this year. I don't think it will be the Abomination mini because
1) its a mini
2) its been announced
I believe this may be the series that PAD would not reveal any details on until an artist is onboard. Sadly, this may spell doom (no, not the FF villian Doom) for a new X-Factor Series.
It also mentions that the Hulk will be in the Iron Man: House of M tie-in, but wether or not it will be PAD's Hulk is unknown.
UPDATE: I'm an idiot. Two lines down it says that the Abomination mini will come out next year. Also, I don't think it will be PAD's Hulk (given that the author's initals are GP)
1I'm just writing to say how perfect I thought PAD's characterization of Bruce Banner this time out was. It makes sense that, over the years, Bruce has become jaded (pun intended? you decide!) with the whole superhero scene. Aside from a few stories here and there, on his own he really hasn't shown that much interest in being part of that set/clique. The tirade against Kang at the end of the story just crystallizes his feelings. He resents the Hulk for bringing him into this scenario and for preventing him from leading a normal life. He'll go along with it at times to get what he wants, but really, I don't think Bruce likes the capes. (Individual people he has respect & friendship for, true, i.e. Reed Richards, Rick Jones, Ben Grimm, Hank Pym, Tony Stark...that's different.)
I also like that this Bruce Banner is smart enough to pick up on the situations around him and make pretty logical deductions about just what the Hulk's gotten him into this time around. It's part intellect, part survival skill learned from living so many years with the Hulk. Nice to have someone remember Banner's a smart cookie and that a lot of times, it's only the Hulk's inopportune appearance that gets him in trouble.
And hey, it sure beats him getting tricked into taking "vitamin" pills some naked chick forces on him while in the shower...;-) (I direct people who don't know what I'm talking about to look at HULK #50-54...on second thought, maybe you should avoid them.)
~G.
Well, if it is true then I shouldn't worry that I stopped reading it when you left and picked it up again when you came back.
My guess is that the real bad guy is Patrick Duffy. Remember, THE MAN FROM ATLANTIS was a Marvel comic. The ultimate cross-over (pun intended). :-)
I've said it before and I'll say it again, It's NIGHTMARE!
Oh...and if the ending was real, then why would we be seeing what was happening to the other two people on the island. That would be like the movie Titanic where the old lady told bits of the story that she would not know happened. (
"Personally, I wouldn't mind a lot being wiped".
See. Herein lies the problem. It is a very narrow-minded, selfish viewpoint. Again, ANY writer can do tremendous stories by hitting the restart button. A GREAT writer like PAD can actually make sense of all that has transpired since he's been away? Can't he?
Well, I just thought it was fantastic. I'm going to write MARVEL and let em know. I hope you can stay forever!
Shawn
If only they let PAD erase the last ten years worth of X books.
1. I stop reading the Hulk when you left.
2. I am glad you are back.
3. The end utterly confused me, but this whole storyline is confusing. I am waiting how it all ties together and I sincerely doubt it was all in Banner's head.
"If only let PAD erase the last ten years worth of X books"
Yes, because writers as talented and diverse as Chris Claremont, Mark Waid, Peter Milligan and Joss Whedon, to name just a few, all deserve to be treated as talentless hacks and should be held in contempt because they wrote no good stories.
Not.
Please get a grip and stop spouting comic cliches/talking points.
Most of you seem to forget something that was said by Samson, namely: the Hulk took over Banners mind. So everything that happened in other books, can easily have happened, but what has happened to Banner and Hulk in his own comic, and what didn't cross over, could still all be the ramblings of a madman.
With that said, I'm leaning 51% on "this is yet another dream-projeceted from Banners mind".
JCBakken raises a good point.The current cliffhanger could be only 60% true, or 50% true, or 34% true. Or not true at all. Or entirely true. Peter is a sneaky SOB that way.
As for what the future holds...if Peter goes with the "All-In-Puny-Banner's-Head" scenario, I'm sure that he's enough of a responsible writer to make sure that the five-or-so years that Bruce has been out of action will have CONSEQUENCES, and not to be so easily glossed over.
Personally I hope this is legit and erases Post Pantheon Hulk history. It's not like PAD history was respected
The cover of incredible hulk 81 features the hulk as one of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse "War" i believe who knows this could be the return of Apocalypse after all we've got a significant x-men x-crossover comin' up
shortly either that or it's just a another "cool" iconic cover
I live in Memphis, where the comic stores are few and the issues are limited. While out of town, I missed this issue. If anyone has an extra to spare, I would gladly pay you for it and shipping costs. It takes effort to be a Hulk fan here. Hulk is work.
