Sentiments I hear from some folk indicate that they don't *want* to think about 9/11. That they hate this anniversary focus on it because it pushes to the forefront of their minds something they would just as soon not dwell on: The potential for concerted attack in everyday life.
I can understand that. Then again, kind of gives you an insight into the Israeli mindset, doesn't it, since they can *never* stop thinking about the potential for concerted attack in everyday life. Kind of hard when your neighbors have wanted to annihilate you for over half a century. It's been observed that people "adjust." Yeah. They do. I just don't think outsiders like *how* Israelis adjusted. We've just had a taste of walking in their shoes for a year. The result? Paranoia, depression, brand new psychological syndromes, and the nation's leaders are beating the drums as loudly as they can shouting for war. From one year. Imagine where our head will be at if we're randomly under assault for the next *sixty* years. Just...food for thought.
I sure hope to God nothing bad happens today. Then again, if I were a terrorist, I'd launch a major strike on September 12...just when everyone is letting out a breath of relief.
Rest easy. Let's hope we all see each other at the end of the week.
PAD
Posted by Peter David at September 11, 2002 08:48 AM | TrackBack | Other blogs commentingRe: Sept. 12 . . . I thought the same thing. Let us the Americans think "Oh yay, 9-11 passed by without a problem" . . . then wake up the next day to another national emergency.
As for remembering . . . I don't want to forget. What I want to do is go to after them myself and beat the *bleep* out of them. Wish I could . . . And if the government's going to make 9/11 a national holiday or day of remembrance from here on out, that's cool. Just don't call it "World Tolerance Day," okay? No tolerance . . . remember it as the day America woke out of its magical "can't-happen-here" thinking and grew up, realizing that there are people out there who wants us dead and we have to fight back.
LS
The main reason that I don't want to dwell upon this date is the way that US media seems to want to portray it. Too much "woe is me," too much overbearing and heavy-handed coverage (does ESPN really need to show what CNN, Fox News, ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, CNBC,... ad nauseum, are showing?) of the "feelings" involved. To be honest, I'm still mad as hell, I still want to take the fight back to the people that helped it happen, and I'm still sad that many people, kids especially, that lost their families that day.
I understand the Israeli mindset, and think that it is stupid that other countries try to tell them "Don't retaliate, we won't be happy." It's stupid, a group picks them out for attacks, and they are just supposed to sit back and take it? Don't retaliate, you might hurt innocent civilians, even when their own innocent civilians are the ones being targeted. Idiocy.
I've ranted long enough, sorry,
jeff
The reason I'm sick of it, in addition to the "woe is me" mentality (as Mark Evanier said - we really have survived and we should be celebrating that spirit), is the commercialism.
My favorite sign on the way home was outside the KFC
"Popcorn Chicken - $4.59
We will always remember
10 Piece - $15.99"
That was just one of many.
So, remember to buy your 9-11 Chips, Let's Roll Cola, and FDNY Dip for this special day.
-Joe
If I were a terrorist, I'd launch my next attack on 11/09 -- which is how most Western countries abbreviate September 11.
SJPO
Personally I've gradually come around to thinking that making September 11 a national holiday is a good idea. While I also would like to put the pain of that day behind us, we must remember that pain is necessary. Physical pain protects us by sending warning signals to the brain that something is causing damage to the body. Without that pain and the memory of it we would continue to grab knives by the blade and reach for fire. If we forget the pain of September 11th we will quickly fall into some of the same behavior that contributed to making such a tragedy possible. For example a) shoestring budgets, lack of communication, and red tape for counter-terrorism agencies, b)insufficient and unenforced immigration laws, and c) virtually non-existent security for our airlines, nuclear plants, water supplies, etc. One designated day per year as a reminder may prevent or at least somewhat delay the inevitable backsliding and pitfalls as corporations and government agencies look to cut their budgets once the heat and attention dies down.
Furthermore, September 11 or no September 11, it couldn't hurt to have a holiday to commemorate and honor America's everyday heroes such as the Police, Firemen, and civilian samaritans who are willing to put their lives on the line to protect us.
I agree these everday heroes deserve a day dedicated to them.
Too bad it took something so monstrous for them to get it.
Bobby
A day to commemorate the terrorist attacks on America? Why? We don't have a national holiday for 12-7 or 6-6. Two days that have had just as much impact on life in these States as 9-11.
A day to commemorate Police, Firefighters and other service personell would be fine, but don't have it coincide with the rememberance of tragedy.
jeff
PS - Not accusing anyone of ignorance on this, but want to make it clear, the two dates are the attack on Pearl Harbor and the landings at Normandy Beach (D-Day).
A day to commemorate the terrorist attacks on America? Why? We don't have a national holiday for 12-7 or 6-6. Two days that have had just as much impact on life in these States as 9-11.<<
Curiously, 12-7 is also remembered for a remarkable bombing aside from Pearl Harbor. I am referring to, of course, the opening of "Star Trek: The Motion Picture." But I'm not eager to commemorate it.
PAD
11/9/2002 was a day just like any other day. People laughed. People cried. People were born. And people died. It was no different than yesterday, last year, or last century. Bad things happen. But so do good things.
Following the incidents of last year the US woke up a little to the world climate. Now it's taking greater security measures (a good thing to be sure). But it is also threatening war and destabilization around the globe (a bad thing to be sure).
People will no doubt make 11/9 a US national holiday, and it might even be celebrated as originally intended for the first few years. But much like our other national holidays, soon 11/9 will be another excuse for a three day weekend of bbq's and camping trips. All it will take is a generation born after these events who have no first hand memories, no connections, to that fateful day. That's why I'll never support it as a national holiday.
The United States of Mexico has the right idea. They have national days for each occupation. There is a Taxi Cab Driver Day, a Housewife Day, a Firefighter Day, et cetera. If people really want to celebrate every day people, the United States of America should look upon its southern neighbor as a model.
Pretty much how a lot of Palestinians feel too...
Mr. Johnston, I would strongly advise you to be very careful when you mention, however briefly, what you refer to as "palestinians". I've said it before, I'll say it again, "palestine" is a Roman name for Israel, and second, by putting it as you do, you're justifying Arab acts of antisemitism and violence against innocent women and children in the form of suicide bombings and demonizing many Israelis and vilifying many Torah and Jewish history scholars.
In fact, the Arabs have been fighting a jihad against Israel since 1947, before the state was even established. They were the ones who started massacres and murders on November 30th, 1947, just hours after the UN General Assembly voted to recommend a Jewish state and an Arab state in the Land of Israel. Furthermore, Arab terrorists in Jerusalem drove Jews out of their homes in the Shimon HaTzadik neighborhood in December 1947.
Please apologize for your damaging comment.
I'm sorry, I can't hear this hypocritical rubbish. I'm not going to go in to this ridiculous interpretation of the right to a people calling themselves Palestinian but I will say this: When talking about Israeli's suffering everyday do not exclude the suffering of the PALESTINIANS.
Yes I am a Muslim but believe it or not, I'm not a terrorist or anti Israeli. I feel sad when I see BOTH people suffering, just as I feel so sad that hundreds of thosands innocent Afghanis are dying.
An American or Israeli life is no more sacred than an Arab or an Afghani.
I'd like to add a non-Muslim and non-Arab voice in support of Mr. Khan. Mr. Green's claim that the word "Palestinian" is inherently offensive is patently absurd.
Even if you accept the Torah's account of Israel's ancient history (and many scholars don't) the Jewish people's claim to the land is easy to dispute. Take a look at Deuteronomy 20:16-17:
16 Howbeit of the cities of these peoples, that the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth, 17 but thou shalt utterly destroy them: the Hittite, and the Amorite, the Canaanite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee;
This genocide was supposedly approved by God, but isn't that the same thing Palestinian terrorists say? Basically the Jewish people were strong enough to take Israel from the people who lived there. The Jewish people lived there for centuries, but they only manged to rule the land for a small percentage of that time, and eventually the land was taken from them. True, the Jewish people were treated very unfairly by powerful foreigners, but they only gained the land through unfair treatment of other peoples. And this is the Torah's account, presumably a sympathetic viewpoint.
The modern rebirth of Israel is only partly attributable to Jewish claims to the land. A return to Israel wasn't a goal for most Jewish people until their lives in Europe and elsewhere were destroyed by racism even more violent and horrible than what exists in the Middle East today. The modern Israel is in part a fulfillment of Jewish desire, but it never would have happened if it weren't for Europe's inability to tolerate a peaceful and well-integrated minority. The Jewish people are owed much. But it wasn't Palestinians who incurred this debt; can we be surprised that they don't want to help pay it? Unlike the Europeans who committed unspeakable atrocities against Jews for no reason at all, Palestinians have a legitimate complaint.
Let me make clear that in no way do I support Palestinian terrorism. The loss of land and property and freedom that Palestinians have suffered was unfair, maybe even tragic. But the Palestinian terrorist response to it was so diabolically stupid and cowardly that it destroyed the political sympathies that would normally fall to an occupied nation. For that, Palestinians have only themselves to blame.
At the same time, my sympathy for Israel has to be tempered by the fact that they took land that belonged to someone else. Such acts aren't without cost. I certainly don't see that I need to amend my vocabulary and remove the word "Palestinian" from it. Perhaps "Palestinian" and "Israeli" were synonymous in ancient times, but their meanings are very distinct now, and it is entirely absurd to suggest otherwise. If you live in Jerusalem, it's easy to tell which is which. Just pose this question to the people who live there: "Do you get any say in this land's government?" If the answer is "No," the person is a Palestinian; if it's "Yes" the person is an Israeli. If the distinction is so offensive, why does Israel's government use it?
'An American or Israeli life is no more sacred than an Arab or an Afghani.'
Amen to that, Mr Khan.
And to Mr PYM - thank you for your extremely intelligent and well thought out post, it gives me hope that there are more people out there who can see the situation from both points.
'An American or Israeli life is no more sacred than an Arab or an Afghani.'
Amen to that, Mr Khan.
And to Mr PYM - thank you for your extremely intelligent and well thought out post, it gives me hope that there are more people out there who can see the situation from both points.
I applaud the above comments. Let me say I am a Catholic (though not a very good one), I have trouble with people who make 'Israeli' synonomous with 'Jew,; just as I have trouble with 'Arab' equalling 'terrorist.' I find it very easy to blame the whole Middle Eastern situation as the fault of the West; Britain controlled Palestine at the end of the war, and designated it a Jewish homeland less out of altruism than the desire to keep the displaced Jews of the Continent showing up in London.
But as for 9/11; say what you will, these terrorists didn't wake up one morning and decode to hijack those planes. In their minds, the U.S. deserved what it got. Was it right? Hell no. But it was a stark reminder that the United States is not the only country in the world, and at some point we would reap the harvest we've sown. We can only exert our will so long before somebody hits back.
Excellent points. I particularly love the satement by PYM: 'The Jewish people are owed much. But it wasn't Palestinians who incurred this debt; can we be surprised that they don't want to help pay it?'
In essence that is the crux of the problem...an evil twisted man, (through the negligence of many European countries, it can be argued) committed barbaric atrocities against a people...so what to do? I know let's turf people who had nothing to do with it out of their homeland and give it to the persecuted! Great idea!
By that thinking, let's give England to the Kosovans, or better yet, give America to the Palestinians.
But they WEREN'T turfed out of their homeland. Yes, they were living in Palestine/Israel. So were thousands of Jews. Jews started slowly returning to the area in late 1800s early 1900s.
The area was divided into two homelands. For two peoples to live side by side in peace. One side said "Fine." The other said "No...we'll drive all these invaders into the sea"
Invaders, some of whom had been living there for decades. People claim the only reason Israel was created was because of Hitler. However, this isn't true. It would have taken longer, but the Jewish population in the area was growing before Hitler came into power. It would have continued to grow.
The occupied territory was taken in wars where Israel was not the agressor. They were attacked, fought back, and took land as a security buffer. They have offered to give the land back to the countries they took it from in exchange for peace. Both Egypt and Jordan have shown no interest. They have offered the Palestinians the land, and the Palestinians have rejected the offer, and not provided a counter-offer in return.
The only possible reason I can see for rejecting a peace-offer and not offering one in return, is not to actually desire peace.
Not surprising, since their charter still declares their primary goal as driving all of Israel into the sea. It should be a very simple thing to ammend a charter. Since they haven't done it, one must believe they still want it. Right?
I know there are Palestinians who desire peace. I would like to believe there is Palestinian Leadership that does, too, but I haven't seen the signs.
I agree that my term 'turf' was not entirely accurate but the idea that anyone can justify the occupied territories as 'taken in wars where Israel was not the agressor. They were attacked, fought back, and took land as a security buffer. They have offered to give the land back to the countries they took it from in exchange for peace. Both Egypt and Jordan have shown no interest. They have offered the Palestinians the land, and the Palestinians have rejected the offer, and not provided a counter-offer in return' clearly is simplifying the issue to the extreme.
Palestinian terrorists are plainly wrong but so is the Israeli government.
sure, it's over-simplifying, any brief description of events in the middle east over the past 50 years by its very nature has to be simplified. But the facts are true, and often forgotten.
It's also over-simplifying to say that Israel's existence is due to Hitler, which you did. We'll never know what would have happened if....but there was a Jewish population in Israel prior to WWII.
No government on the face of this earth can claim "right" 100% of the time. But every government on the face of this earth has a duty to protect itself from attacks from without and within. And for other countries to suggest that a country do nothing, and allow itself to be attacked, is wrong.
Israel has definitely overreacted at times. But I have seen more attempts at peace, more willingness to compromise, from the Israeli leadership, than I have seen from Palestinian leadership.
This can go on and on...I don't see the relevance of the fact there were many Jews in Palestine before WW2. So what? There are more Muslims in India than there are in Pakistan...but that don't mean they should be given control of the country.
Anyway, all I can pray for is peace and despite rumours to the contrary, so do both Arabs and Israeli's alike.