I'm doing a column on what was the best superhero movie ever made (not counting the serials from the 40s and 50s.)
Any thoughts?
PAD
Posted by Peter David at April 22, 2003 01:01 PM | TrackBack | Other blogs commentingI'm torn whenever I consider this. Two choices come to mind:
1.) Superman: The Movie. Richard Donner did a great job of bringing the iconic Superman to live and making us all believe a man could fly. Pa Kent's collapse in the field brings a lump to my throat every time. And the Fortress of Solitude scene's breathtaking. Whenever I see the film, I feel like I'm a kid again.
2.) The Rocketeer. It's a great homage to the serial-era films, with swashbuckling adventure and romance served up without any irony. This one, I saw in my late teens, I think, and it left me just as breathless and awed (and not just because of Jennifer Connelly).
One's an obvious pick; the other is probably written off as a kids' movie since it was done by Disney. But those are my two contenders.
Superman The Movie. Not only the best superhero film of all time but maybe one of the greatest American films of the last thirty years. It had drama, comedy, action, and romance. It took it's subject matter seriously and it made a skeptical audience, who wasn't sure a man could fly, believe.
Well, it depends on your criteria - are you concentrating on Comic Book adaptations? If not, Darkman is an option.
I'm fond of The Rocketeer, although I haven't seen it in years.
Superman II is great, although not without it's flaws.
Spider-Man was just missing- something- for me. I've never been able to put my finger on it. I actually preferred Daredevil. Pulpier.
Of course, you can get into the infinite debate over what is a superhero. Is James Bond? Is the Terminator in T2? Is Buffy? Is Angel?
As long as you don't answer with the Golan and Globus Captain America, I won't argue too heavily.
Superman. The Batman and SpiderMan movies were great, but Superman was the first to make a superhero REAL. And if you leak into Superman II, the battle in Metropolis (throwing a bus, tossing a villain into the Coke sign in Times Square) is still the only "Super Fight" I've ever seen worthy of a comic book.
My first thought is either Superman I or II. But then I think of Nicholson's performance in Batman and I realize it's a tight race. Gotta give the small nod to the Boy Scout's first though.
Road to Perdition would have been #1 if it weren't for "the trigger not pulled" change.
Tobin
-tpl
Either Batman Returns or Daredevil. Those where some real good ones.
But please, heaven strike you down if you do, DON'T even think about the last two Batman Films. Those ones stunk, and should be wiped from the face of the earth.
Just kidding, but really, try to put the past Two Batman films out of your mind.
I also have to agree with Superman: The Movie--which is just about as pitch-perfect as you can expect--and The Rocketeer--which is a just-plain-fun, rousing adventure that's too often unfairly overlooked. (I love the moment when Paul Sorvino's mobster turns on Timothy Dalton after he learns the latter is a Nazi. "I may not make an honest living, but I am one hundred percent American!")
Superman II's super-powered fight in Metropolis was fantastic, too. I suspect that the upcoming Matrix sequels will include some aerocombat that will put Superman II to shame, but that shouldn't make us forget how ground breaking and incredible that whole sequence was.
For the historical minded, I'd suggest The Adventures of Captain Marvel as the best of the old-time movie serials' comics adaptations.
I note Darkman was mentioned, too. Didn't PAD mention this movie as a perfect comic book movie (just without having originated in comics) in a BID years ago?
"What constitutes a super hero?" Good question. Because, when the Gauls take their magic potion in the ASTERIX movies, they become easily as strong as SPIDER-MAN. If they qualify, I'd give the second ASTERIX film (MISSION CLEOPATRE) the nod.
As for SUPERMAN, it would have qualified, but blew it on two fronts.
This is the movie where the WB folks got their inspiration for Pinky & the Brain. Look at the bad guys: one's a genius, the other's ... well, not insane, exactly, but a dolt. Certainly not the sort of useless git Luthor would have as right-hand man.
Worse: once Supes is shown turning back the clock by flying the right way around the Earth, all suspense, er, flew out the window as we knew that, no matter what happens, Supes can make it right by going back in time. Bad move, that.
Those two bad screwups really hurt the film for me and took it out of the running.
If tv movies count, I'd give, not first prize, but definitely honorary mention to the DOCTOR STRANGE film (1977). Low budget, but it was fun, even without a wizened Chinese as the Ancient One. And, oh! that Morgan! *drool*
The best superhero movie? My vote goes to Superman! Although I also liked the first Batman flick, Superman was easier to believe thanks to a more convincing Metropolis over Gothamcity + the fact that Christopher Reeves portrayed a very convincing hero (very unlike Dean Cain with his flashy suit in 'Lois and Clark') which doesn't seem as simple (Ben Affleck, anyone?) as a lot of actors seem to think. How about the worst superhero movie ever? 'Nick Fury: Agent of Shield (David Hasselhoff)', 'Fantastic Four' or 'Generation X'?
If you consider Batman a "Super" hero, then I suggest that no super hero movie has as much, fun, thrills, and adventure as...
The Mask of Zorro
Have to agree with Superman: The Movie. It is the only one of the superhero flicks that I see as a classic. Amazing performances by all involved, iconic score, etc. Honorary mention goes to Unbreakable. Even though not directly based on a comic, just an amazing film.
Superman: The Movie; slightly edging out the first sequel because I just can't abide Zod's magic levitating finger zap or the superpower-reversal-chamber-double-cross-thingy at the end.
The Rocketeer; largely forgotten (except by this crowd it would seem) but I felt it was spot-on in every way.
Honorable mention for X-Men; just because I love seeing Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen acting opposite one another. I would have gladly paid $$$ for an X-film that consisted of nothing but a two-hour chess match between them.
Good Question: "Best Superhero Film Ever?" The first thing that would need to be answered is, "What type of Superhero?". Comic based, science fictional, or just fictional.
I'm torn on this question since there are a couple of Super Hero films I enjoy to watch over and over.
SuperMan,Blade,Spider-Man are amoung the best comic to the big screen films in my opinion.
The movie "The Rocketeer" is a favorite of mine also just because it seems be very well-rounded and easier to relate to.
All in all, just too many to choose from and then try to label it the best.
Some great choices there.
I have to agree that Superman and Batman are both deserving of the nod. Reeves and Nicholson really brought their respective parts to life.
The Matrix is just a kick ass comic book movie. And I wholeheartedly agree with John H. above that Mask of Zorro is pure comic book fun.
X-Men and Spider-man hit pretty close to their source material, which is a big plus in my book. And they were entertaining.
It surprises me that the Blade movies are not mentioned. As good as these other films are, I give the Blade series high marks for what it accomplished.
I'm not sure if any of that actually answered your question.
Bobby
Bobby Nash
Writer @ Large
Superman- The Movie
It's gonna be a long time before they top this one.
Daredevil
Derivative, sure, but it had the heart and soul that are sorely misssing in a lot of comic-books flicks. And there are shots in the film that look just like vintage Gene Colan panels.
Batman
I'm gonna have to give this a tie with Daredevil. As a twelve year old kid at the time this came out, Batman became my only obsession for years afterward. I ate the cereal, hung the posters on my wall and screened the VHS tape daily until I memorized every single line of dialouge. That's the test of a great movie- if it drives you completely insane.
I'd have to with Spider-man or Superman. Both were excellent, stayed true to their comic book forebearers, and were just lots of fun.
I think Superman I and Spider-Man have come closest to accurately adapting comic book superheroes to the screen, while still being quality movies in their own right.
However, for me the best superhero movies are the ones that are not actually based on a published character, such as The Matrix, Darkman and RoboCop.
These movies are not forced to choose what elements of a previously existing character to keep, alter or discard in order to adapt them to the screen. It's a necessary process for any adaptation, which can dilute the original appeal of the concept. Also, because the original source is not a comic book, there is less tendency for producers to feel the need to incorporate "camp" elements into the film.
Having said that, I have also enjoyed, to varying degrees, comic book-adapted superhero movies such as Batman I and Batman Forever, The Rocketeer, The Phantom, The Crow, the Blade movies, X-men and Daredevil.
Superhero movies that didn't do it for me: Supes III & IV, Batman Returns, Batman&Robin, Supergirl, Swamp Thing, The Shadow, the Crow sequels and (as if this really needs to be even said) the early 90s Captain America and Punisher.
Wait- you know what was a kick-ass movie? Remo Williams: The Adventure Begins. Of course, I was only 11 at the time...
I don't know whether I 'd call it the very best Super-Hero film. But if the Rocketeer is a contender then so should The Phantom.Pure unbridled pulpy fun, without constantly and annoyingly winking at he audience the way the Shadow was. He's Tarzan, Indiana Jones and Batman all roled into one.
This is the movie where the WB folks got their inspiration for Pinky & the Brain. Look at the bad guys: one's a genius, the other's ... well, not insane, exactly, but a dolt. Certainly not the sort of useless git Luthor would have as right-hand man.
I understand folks who hate the campy elements from the first Superman movie. It is absurd that Lex Luthor has an underground lair in the heart of the city, an attractive moll and a doltish sidekick. But at the same time, campy elements like that are part of the Superman mythos (I mean, who really turns evil because they go bald?) so I appreciate how the movie incorporated some of that lighter flavor without letting it overpower the movie (as happened in the later Batman films.) My opinion only; your mileage may vary.
Worse: once Supes is shown turning back the clock by flying the right way around the Earth, all suspense, er, flew out the window as we knew that, no matter what happens, Supes can make it right by going back in time. Bad move, that.
The time-travel climax of the first Superman is doubtlessly controversial. Within the space of the movie itself, it doesn't bother me as a suspense-killer since it's the last super-feat Superman does. It makes sense that Superman's last super act in the film is the most super yet. (IIRC, when originally the first two movies were being developed together, the time-travel climax would have ended the second movie; the creators brought it to the end of the first one in case the sequel never got made so that they could still show that most super of super feats.) And the fact that Superman can travel in time doesn't kill the suspense of his future adventures for me any more than other sorts time-travel stories in Star Trek or Back to the Future or whatever else. Time travel stories intrinsically involve a lot of suspension of disbelief; nothing in the Superman movie climax makes me unable to suspend that disbelief--either for the single movie itself or for its sequels. But again, your mileage may vary.
When I went to see Unbreakable, I left the theatre feeling like I had just read a really good comic.
Superman I, Blade I and Batman I are my votes for best.
I'd have to put my vote in for "Superman" or "Superman II" (or the both of them together).
Christopher Reeve had just the right look to pull the part off - and, for two hours, you actually could suspend your disbelief enough to feel that man *could* fly.
Now, if the last two films could somehow make their way into a black hole, or some other singularity, we'd be just fine...
For me, it would have to be the first Superman movie. Saying it had its flaws is like saying a beautiful, vivacious woman eats crackers in bed. I wouldn't kick her out for a few crumbs!
Everyone seems to be on the same track...
The first two Superman movies were really good, if you ignore the couple of major flaws each has.
The first Batman was well done, if a major departure from the comic...
And the Spider-Man and X-men movies were well done, if again you ignore the flaws...
But I wonder if "Batman: Mask of the Phantasm" counts? I know it isn't a live action movie, but it was a cinematic release, and it was pretty true to the character.
Plus Mark Hamills' Joker is hilarious.
And what about "the Shadow"?
My money goes to:
Superman I: I did believe a man could fly.
Superman II: The best supervillian fight ever!
Batman: Tim Burton rules!
Spider-Man: I'm biased. Spidey has always been my favorite superhero. That being said, Raimi hit the nail on the head with this movie. Only thing I didn't like was the Goblin's costume.
I've got to put my vote in with the popular also-ran here...The Rocketeer. Perfectly captured the comic, the idealized period and the characters.
I was surprised when I watched the first Superman film again last year when I got the DVD--I was really emotionally attached to it. I'd forgotten how much over the years, but it connects to something. I'd still put Rocketeer first, though.
JUDEX. An annoyingly hard to find movie but well worth the trouble. From the same genius who did LES YEUX SANS VISAGE, possibly the best horror movie ever.
Best super-hero film of all time?
How about M. Night Shamaylan's "Unbreakable", which breaks down the very essence of a super-hero to a truly human experience?
After that, by far, the rollicking Rocketeer movie. Sorry I can't agree with you on the James Horner music. I play it often in my car as I'm barrelling down I-65.
I have to vote for Superman II also. I liked the first one but the fight scene in the second one was just fantastic.
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I just loved the scene where Zod is threatening to execute the Daily Planet staff if Superman doesn't show up and then from outside the huge hole in the wall of the skyscraper you hear "Zod!" Zod turns and sees Superman hovering in midair with his arms crossed and Supes says "Care to step outside?" God, Christopher Reeve had such prescence in that movie!
Fazhoul
The Flash TV movie. Very true to the spirit of the comics without an ounce of campiness anywhere.
I'm glad I wasn't the only who thought "The Rocketeer", "The Shadow" and "The Phantom" were good super hero movies. I really loved all three and were sorry they faded at the box office. I was also sorry "Unbreakable" didn't have a sequel which I thought I read it was originally set up as a proposed trilogy, but also faded.
I wouldn't have thought "The Rocketeer" just from the question, but now that I think about it, that movie was a lot of fun. I oughta rent that sometime.
Going by personal favorites, I have to say Spider-Man, just because it was everything I wanted from the movie. I didn't even mind the Green Ranger... um, Goblin.
Plus, that one guy who wrote the novelization did an okay job, I guess.
I hated Unbreakable, and yet it was one of the most interesting takes on the superhero I've seen.
I did love Batman, though Jack's Joker was not the Killing Joke Joker that I loved at the time.
Maybe, though, The most overlooked so far is The Crow, which really captured the look and feel of the comic with nary a trace of kitsch or sillyness.
Yeah, I vote for The Crow.
Emphatically.
Wait- you know what was a kick-ass movie? Remo Williams: The Adventure Begins. Of course, I was only 11 at the time...
Oh, yeah. Remo Williams was perfect Saturday afternoon matinee stuff.
I can't believe I forgot that one.
Bobby
Bobby Nash
Writer @ Large
Problem with The Shadow and The Phanton.
The Shadow was never really a super-hero, the same way most people thought it was. He was basically a guy who used the dark of night to be a vigilante.. hmmm... sounds familiar... except this one used his guns for the reason they were invented. The movie blew from my pov... cause I enjoyed the pulps.
But if The Shadow was a superhero, then so was doc savage, and a few others. (let's not get into the doc savage movie)...
Remo Williams is again, a vigilante, coming from the "pulp" novels of the Destroyer, in its 130s... not sure if he's a "Super"hero either...
The Phantom was great as an adventure movie. In fact after seeing the Mummy, i thought that Stephen Sommers wanted to do the Phantom right...
But, Treat Williams was too much, and while the Phantom has never done great on this side of the atlantic, I believe several people actually believed he existed in his country of Africa.
Was he a "Super" hero or just a hero in purple tights?
Superman is my choice of Super-Hero movie... but Unbreakable is definitively one of the best out there.
(I also enjoyed Shazam and Isis in the 70's, so that shows where my taste is)
Travis
I'll cast my vote for UNBREAKABLE. Not only is it a damn fine film in its own right, and the most believable superhero film yet, but you can see Shyamalan using techniques of comic book storytelling in his filmmaking. I don't know if I've ever seen another film that relied so heavily on closure.
Best adaptation? I'd say X-MEN. Sure, SPIDER-MAN was more joyous and fun, but X-MEN managed to find the heart of each and every one of its characters, while paying homage to the serious issues of prejudice and alientation underlying the X-Men since their debut.
Of course, if anyone wants to bring up THE MATRIX, I won't argue too much...
Well, I always thought that Superman: The Movie was too cheesy, even for those days. The Smallville scenes are alright, but ... nah.
I liked the Phantom... but the end was terrible. And I wonder if he really qualifies as superhero -- imo, he's a classical pulp adevtnure hero, like The Shadow or Doc Savage. The same, albeit differently, goes for the Crow or Blade (or even Matrix) -- it's not really superheroes we're talking here.
Daredevil, although often different from the book and maybe a tad bit too Matrix-ized and the main actor was just all wrong... but on the other was so full of lovely little bits and pieces and so close to various storylines from the actual comic book that it just, imo, is one of the best superhero movies so far.
If we stick to classic superheros...
Daredevil.
The Crow is a masterpeice, as is Conan The Barbarian. The Shadow, The Rocketeer, and Batman (1989) were all great. I loved the Superman movies when I was kid, but I watch them now and just cringe at how campy & dated they are ...
My vote?
Spider-Man edges the others out. Of course, as a MAJOR Spider-Man fan, I'm a little biased, but this one just really worked for me...the casting, the origin, the action, everything.
VERY close second is Superman: The Movie. I find its a great film. My only complaint is, as much as I'm a Superman fan, I find it a *tad* long.
Then I'd list Superman II, followed by X-Men. Haven't seen Daredevil.
The Batman films...ehh. Didn't work for me. The first two are REALLY dark, the last two are really light, and there's no perfect balance.
Rocketeer's good, but I haven't seen it in ages. Also, call me nostalgic, but I like the Flash Gordon film, with Max Von Sydow as Ming the Merciless...really fun as a campfest.
Surprised no one has mentioned that Dolph Lundgren classic, "The Punisher"... :)
I'm glad that some other folks mentioned "Unbreakable". I have trouble ranking any other superhero movie higher.
"Rocketeer" was wonderful fun. "Superman" was the best that had appeared to that date.
"Spider-Man" had many elements that were nearly perfect -- the wall-crawling sequences come to mind, as well as the look on MJ's face as Peter walks away in the final scene that says (at least to me) that she suddenly knows all.
In the honorable mention category, "Batman and Robin" was an execrable film, but George Clooney played the best Bruce Wayne that we've seen so far. If only he'd had a decent script...
Not just because it hasn't been mentioned yet, but also because it genuinely IS my personal favorite superhero movie...
Mystery Men. In one film, they managed to incorporate so many different superhero-related tropes, from the obvious to the subtle. New-superheroes-team-up-to-rescue-established-hero. Offspring-of-original-hero-takes-up-identity-and-powers-to-avenge-father's-murder. Villains-all-team-up-to-become-villain-supergroup.
Nearly all the archetypes are there: the popular superhuman who's his city's icon (and who hides his identity with a pair of glasses); the brilliant inventor; the quick-tempered guy; the wise mentor guy; the young, enthusiastic sidekick-type; the token female.
Of course, the genius of the film is that so many of those old cliches are turned on their ear. I mean, who was expecting what happened to Captain Amazing, HALFWAY through the film???
They even have little easter eggs for enthusiasts, such as the bit about finding a superhero just on the verge of being big, "like a Human Torch before he hit." They could have picked any super-character to name-check there, but they picked very first Marvel superhero. I loved that.
Also, I believe Mystery Men is possibly the only modern superhero film in which the concept of the superhero is already established as a given when the movie begins. The film opens with a pan over Champion City (great name!), and we already see huge statues erected in honor of Captain Amazing. What was great about that was that it's exactly how modern comic books are, with the heroes already well-established (unless you happen to be checking out something like Miller's Man Without Fear or Byrne's Man of Steel), but for a film it was entirely unconventional.
I think it was because of this and other blithe unorthodoxies scattered throughout it that the movie wasn't commercially successful, but they're also what make it such a treat for superhero fans.
It's not a film that necessarily takes the concept of the superhero deadly seriously, the way the majority of Superman I does for example... but Mystery Men is certainly one of the most complete and affectionate renderings of the superhero concept on film that I've ever seen.
A cape, a mask, a secret cave filled with wonderful equipment, an alter-ego as a wealthy fop -
The Mask of Zorro, of course!
Another interesting choice - one that more ably defines the "hero" in superhero, is
Hero At Large.
Coming straight from the comics, I'm loving all of the new stuff. X-Men, Spiderman, and Daredevil are all wonderfully amazing. X2 and Hulk look like they are going to rock the house, baby!!
For comic book-like movies, Darkman and The Matrix (which is really just a rip off of Plato's allegory of the cave) receive top nods.
But, I'll put my actual vote in for... well, 1/2 vote for Mystery Men and 1/2 vote for Unbreakable. Both movies delved remarkably well into what it means to be a comic book.
Someone mentioned the FLASH tv-movie. I saw it more as an episode. But if one accepts television episodes as part of this 'competition', then my nod goes to the "Ghost" episode of THE FLASH.
Not only was it very good (keeping in mind its tv budget limitations) as a comic book super hero instalment, but the opening bit, showing Nightshade fighting the Ghost in the 50s, done as a black & white tribute to the Republic serials of the 30s and 40s, was just superbly executed.
Wow... don't see anyone pushing for The Heroic Trio yet! It's a Hong Kong film (with all the wire work and weirdness that entails), but provides three delightfully different super-heroes, an unstoppable enemy (or, actually, two) and some action set-pieces beyond compare.
Best superhero movie? Possibly Darkman, with it's classic ending in which the, for lack of a better word, hero walks into the darkness after uttering the words, "I'm Darkman." Great stuff.
In a close, close second would be Spider-Man. Sure there were a few goofy bits, but none of the out-and-out moments of campy ridiculousness or massive plot holes (not even worried about because, hey, it's just based on a comic book) that marred many of the other movies.
(a-hem) Best super-hero film? "The Empire Strikes Back". Or "Star Wars", depending on your world-view: whether you're a "good conquors all" or a somewhat more melancholy "the hero doesn't always succeed". As my tastes tend more towards the latter, "Empire" is my choice. And I think (although I'm sure I'll quickly be proved wrong) one would be hard pressed to say either Superman or Batman or Mystery Men (cough, cough) are better films.
Now, if it came down to comic book superheros, after a great deal of thought I am throwing my weight behind Superman 2. Batman comes close, but suffers slightly from Burton's obsession with developing the brooding atmosphere of Gotham, whereas Superman focuses more compeltely on the story. And as for the sequel over the original Superman...again, it gets back to that whole world-view thing. Sometimes, no matter how noble and good you are, you just can't get everything you want; that's what being a hero is all about, making the tough decisions and sacrificing your desires for the greater good. In Superman, Supes gets everything by turning back time. In Superman 2, he has to give up his desire to have a normal life with the woman he loves in order to save the world from tyranny. That's the kind of story that speaks to me more.
Batman was great, but sometimes just a bit over the top. I do want to single out Michael Keaton, who I thought was both a great Batman and a great Bruce Wayne, and showed a distinctive dychotomy between those two personalities, much as Christopher Reeves did in the Superman movies.
For me it probably would be "Spider-Man", which to my mind captured the essence of Spidey to a tee, with "Batman", "Superman" and "X-Men" (listed alphabetically as they are too close to call) in joint second place.
I positively hate "The Rocketeer", mainly because I did not grow up on the kind of 'B' serials it emulated and as for the "non-superhero" superhero films I'd have to say: The Mark of Zorro (Tyrone Power, Basil Rathbone), not The Mask of Zorro!
I vote for Xmen and Keaton's Batman. Though Unbreakable was an excellent film too.
I would say either Batman or Spider-Man myself.
How could you leave out Robert Townsend's "Meteor Man"? LOL
At the risk of being booed off the board here, I can't believe how many people said the first Superman movie was the best. I was nine years old when it came out and I thought it was horrible. Still do. Flying around the earth to reverse time? I believed more in Santa Clause than that idea. I felt like Superman was a wuss. I thought to myself, "This doesn't seem like the Superman I know from the comics..."
I'd have to vote for Spider-man or Daredevil. My face hurt tremendously after seeing both of these films, and later I realized that it was because I had been smiling for 2 hours straight.
Unbreakable gets my nod as favorite superhero movie. But others may prefer Meteor Man. :)
So I'm reading all of the posts here and finally, about three quarters of the way down somebody mentions Mystery Men. Thank you, Jason for listing what was so good about it and saving me the hassle of having to re-type it all.
It seems like such a logical extension that in a world where superheroes are common, ordinary people would want to be superheroes as well, albeit with less than super results. The only thing missing was the mandatory Danny Elfman theme.
I have a huge bias because I'm a long time diehard Spider-Man fanboy (yes, not just a fan).
It helps that Spider-Man was a great movie, even if I had some problems with it (Kirsten Dunst mailing it in, crappy oversapped love dialogue) so I would tout it as highest.
I'm not a big fan of Burton, but Batman is great because Keaton and Nicholson overcame their director.
Daredevil was a throwback to the old days of comic book movies (in other words it was crappy). Blind men dance fighting in a park on seesaws while kids pound at the fence with no one else noticing is hardly a way to keep me interested.
I will say the worst had to be the Captain America movies. If you've seen them, I'm sure you know what I'm on about.
hmmmI've never seen any of the Lone Wolf and Cub movies..wonder how they would stack up though...
..but..my first impulse was to say Superman..probably because many of my generation had been waiting all our lives to see that one done right! Having Christopher Reeve come along to play Superman was the same feeling I had for Curt Swan drawing him...there will never be a better fit!
I have a lot to say about this topic, but I'll try to keep this brief.
For me, the successful translation of comics involves a good plot, good characters, and loyalty to the source material. With that in mind:
1. Superman, the Movie. The first, and greatest, adaption to the modern movie of a comic book superhero.
2. Spider-Man. Also very loyal to the source material.
3. Batman. Good, except I hated the Michael Keaton casting. I wish they had started with George Clooney.
Others: Daredevil was good, but not great. Ditto for X-Men. Too many others to rate.
I'm not counting sequels. Although I thought Superman II had great fights scenes and I didn't mind so much that Lois found out his identity, they started having powers that weren't in the comics (going back to loyalty to the source material).
Overall, I prefer it when the people who make the movies actually read the comics.
Well, so far only one person has mentioned 'The Crow", and I'd like to second that vote.
I'd also like to bring up the first "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" movie. Very loyal to the early Eastman and Laird material, and a lot more entertaining than I was expecting (I was expecting something closer to the cartoon).
I noticed that nobody has mentioned the Supergirl movie :).
The vote seems pretty overwhelming, and I simply must add to the landslide. Superman: The Movie is the quintessential superhero film, and after twenty-five years it's still in my personal top five.
If you count comic book movie as based on a comic book, then I put in a vote for Superman: The Movie.
If you count movies that have the spirit of comic books, most definitely Star Wars (A New Hope).
But since the question is specifically superhero movies, not comics, I still go with Superman.
I have to agree about Mystery Men. The term "best" is pretty open-ended here, so I'll dub it "best at capturing the feel of a superhero comic." Jason touched on part of the reason, but I'll expand somewhat: MM is the only superhero movie I can think of that gives the feel of taking place in a larger superhero universe. This is partially because the nature of the movie requires that the characters have to be judged against other superheroes (unlike most other superhero movies, where the main character has to be noteworthy by dint of standing alone). MM conveys the feel that the early Stan Lee comics had: the characters are part of something larger.
(It's also a near-perfect movie for role-players, BTW, which helps explain its added appeal to me and my group in general.)
That said, I don't know what I'd call the best overall superhero movie; but I'd probably pick Spider-Man as the best balanced in what one looks for in a superhero movie. (I reserve judgement on Superman II; I haven't seen it since it came out, and I remember being bored by the romantic subplot, but I haven't had a chance to evaluate it as an adult.)
Mystery Men and Spider-man are the two best superhero movies I can think of, and luckily I agree with the reasons others gave (less typing).
Well, I would agree that Superman is probably the best superhero movie -- yes, Otis and the time travel thing is bad, but the first two-thirds is magic.
However, I would like to suggest a dark-horse candidate: The Matrix. C'mon, great villains -- Agent Smith, Cipher, larger than life heroes (Morpheus, Trinity, and Neo -- heck, they even have "code names"). Most importantly, the feel of the movie seems to resonate all that I love about comics and superheroes.
The ending is amazing.
Too bad they decided to make sequels.
Buckaroo Banzai, I thought, was a really fun ride with a lot of appeal.
No nod to Mask of the Phantasm? Or to Akira?
Project A-Ko if you've never seen it has a--ahem--Davidian sensibilities to it.
Setting focus for such a colums might be the biggest problem, as fantasy and comics being our collective window to fantasy have shaped so much of cinema.
My take:
1st half of the Superman movie.
1st Batman movie.
The Rocketeer.
Spider-Man.
And: Army of Darkness.
JSM
Donnie Darko and Unbreakable are the only superhero movies that can be defined as great that aren't tacky or silly
OK - looks like no one has mentioned my favorite "Superhero" movie - DARK CITY! Wow, stunning visuals, and one of the best "super power" showdowns ever at the end. Come on - no one's with me on this?
Other than that I'll second (third?) both The Crow and MysteryMen. Great uses of the superhero genre from different angles.
I'll also agree with the detractors of the original Superman movie -- the villians were just TOO campy and inane to make a viable threat, and the "big cheat" at the end was a letdown. Christopher Reeve was perfect, though, in every way. The second movie could have been even better, but was in fact worse due to even more camp, and plot-holes you could fit all of Metropolis through.
Batman I (Tim Burton's version) also looked great, had great casting, but campiness and lazy plotting killed it in the long run.
In the interests of full disclosure, I have not seen X-Men or Blade. Still planning to, someday...
Doug wrote: "MM conveys the feel that the early Stan Lee comics had: the characters are part of something larger."
Well said. And that indeed was what I was trying to get at in pointing out the fact that concept of the superhero has been established in the world of the film before it even begins.
elf wrote: "...Mystery Men. Thank you, Jason for listing what was so good about it and saving me the hassle of having to re-type it all."
My pleasure. Thanks for the recognition!
"It seems like such a logical extension that in a world where superheroes are common, ordinary people would want to be superheroes as well, albeit with less than super results."
Yeah, I thought the premise was brilliant. It's pretty much the only aspect of the "Mysterymen" that survived the transition from its comic book incarnation over to film (that and a few character-names are pretty much all that the movie has in common with Bob Burden's singularly strange comics).
"The only thing missing was the mandatory Danny Elfman theme."
Is your handle anything to do with being a Danny fan, by any chance? :) Yeah, he's my favorite composer, and whoever did do the music for that movie was clearly Elfman-influenced.
On a related note, have you ever heard the rumor that Tim Burton directed Mystery Men under a psuedonym? Seems unlikely to me, but it's certainly an interesting notion...
Oh, jeez! How did I forget Dark City??? Patrick, at least one guy is with you on that one. Like you said, awesome visual effects, and the hero and villains in that movie totally rule.
Hey, has anyone else here read Kurt Busiek's interview in the Onion, where he said that there are five chief elements to a story that make it a "superhero story"? I believe they were:
1. A superhuman ability (or several)
2. A nickname or code-name.
3. A costume.
4. A quest.
5. A milieu. (Presumably this is the catch-all for parts of the superhero environment such as a secret headquarters, an arch-villain, and other such staples.)
Busiek's rule is that if a story has three out of five of those elements, it can be fairly called a superhero story.
I don't necessarily agree or disagree, but I just thought people here would find it interesting. I was thinking, by Busiek's criteria, one of my favorite action movies (not yet mentioned) could fairly be called a superhero film:
"Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon."
Of course, I'm sure it wasn't intended that way. I mean, come on, a director as classy as Ang Lee would never do something as lowbrow as a superhero movie...
For me, Superman The Movie, for the intro with the 1930's Action Comics book, the Superman Insignia, and the John Williams score.
Although many may diss the finale where he flies around the world to travel back in time, I loved when he soared among the clouds and heard the voices of his father(s):
Jor-El: "My son, it is forbidden to interfere in human history"
Pa Kent: "One thing I know, son, is that you are here for a reason."
Clark: "All those powers, and I couldn't even save him."
The Kryptonian scientific mind vs the human heart. That says it all for me.
Supes: "Don't worry, I've got you!"
Lois: "You've got me? Who's got you?!"
I loved the scene where Clark is outside of the Daily Planet, looks up in the sky and sees Lois dangling from the helicopter, then looks for a phone booth, but they no longer exist.
Finding a hotel turn-style entrance Clark changes to Superman, and the rest is history.
Thanks to Richard Donner and Christopher Reeve for making us believe a man can fly.
Honorable mention to the 1966 Batman movie with Adam West and Burt Ward.
It had The Penguin, The Joker, The Riddler, and Catwoman.
It had the Batmobile, The Batplane, and The Batboat.
It was among my earliest experiences with the dynamic duo, and it was fun!
Steve Chung
I agree with so many who find it to be a definitional problem. If you're thinking about the best adaptations of the form, the The Crow, The Rocketeer, and Mystery Men were probably the most faithful takes.
However, if you're simply talking best adaptation, I'm pretty partial to X-Men. It just really works for me.
Branching, though, if I had to pick the best "comic book" film, I don't think anyone has executed that as well as Robert Rodriguez did with "Desperado." From the plotline that pitted brother against brother, to the stylized action sequences, to the pacing, and everything else involved, I challenge anyone to watch it and not see that Rodriguez wasn't putting his love for comics out there in the form he knew how best to make.
Marc Mason
Not going to weigh in with why, but for my two cents it's gotta be the Matrix. Mystery Men gets an honorable mention and the Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension has to get some kind of merit award. :)
Ned Beatty as Otis was funny.
"It's amazing that brain can generate enough power to keep those legs moving."
Gene Hackman as Lex Luthor
Steve Chung
I'd have to go with "The Crow". Even the unnecessary addition of a little kid to the story (which is normally the kiss of death) didn't detract from the drama or action.
:) Speaking of the addition of annoying unnecessary kids, the image of Wendy and Marvin from the Superfriends teaming up the Crow just popped into my head. The product of a sick mind or potentially the seed of some very disturbing fan fiction? You decide.
My vote goes to DAREDEVIL.
But only till X-men 2, which I think will take its place..and then The Matrix Reloaded..and maybe (hopefully) Hulk.
Honestly: I don't think the ultimate best super-hero movie has been made yet.
What is happening now, imo, is that everytime you think you've seen the best Super-hero movie, a better one comes along.
Ask me before Daredevil I would have said Spiderman was the best before that X-men before that Matrix before that...
Well you get the idea. Its an ever-changing thing.
I'm not saying that maybe..one of these they might release a super-hero movie that beats them all out for ever & ever..but I am saying, imo, they haven't made that movie yet.
DF2506
" Looking forward to X-men 2, Matrix Reloaded, The Hulk, Matrix Revolutions. And of course on dvd, can't wait to get the Daredevil dvd!!"
Well, it's not technically a superhero adaptation, but I think the Hughes Bros. did a really remarkable job w/Alan Moore's "From Hell." Plus, Johnny Depp (as usual) was brilliant. And speaking of Jack the Ripper, let's not forget "Time After Time." While not based on a comic, the idea of protagonist and antagonist chasing one another through time sure has a superhero FEEL to it. Oh, and a special honorable mention to "Unbreakable," M. Night's best (and most unfairly trashed) movie so far...
I know everyone is going to hate me... but I am going to pick two "comic book movies."
Here it goes... my favorite comic book movie is... Ghost World. Everyone here seems hung up on Superheroes but there are other comic books besides super heroes. Super hero movies collapse in on themselves for the simple fact that they have to spend 3/4 of the movie explaining why a super hero is on the planet earth and why they fight evil. And then some hollywood executive somewhere says that america is too dumb and the end not using the original source matrial. Ghost World didn't have those problems.. no heroes, no explaining. Just a great, great character piece, something that is always missing from super hero movies. Notice how almost everyone seems to agree that second movie of a superhero franchise is better than the first? Maybe because they don't have to explain everything!
My second comic book movie is Ducktales. Again not a super hero movie, but based on a comic book. Oh sure, Huey, Duey and Louie started out in shorts, but Scrooge McDuck was a comic character long before he ever granced the screen. And you know what... they didn't have to explain a lot in that either.
Anyway that's my choices, flame on!
Let's not forget "The Phantom" with Billy Zane and Zeta Jones. It was a great adaptation.
Have you guys seen the new Hulk trailer yet? Its awesome.
http://www.apple.com/trailers/universal/the_hulk/international/large.html
Spiderman came across as a fun rump that you didn't need to be a fan to get, and without all the nods that kindof took space from the movie.
Still, Mask of Zorro is great.
Superman 1 & 2 - With the usual reservations over the camp moments, ignore them and the films are timelessly perfect.
Batman - It changed everything. Keaton was good, someone mentioned Clooney earlier in the thread, he was the best but with the worst script. Nicholson, stole the show perfectly, he was so good I forgave Burton for not casting Tim Curry to do a Killing Joke version of the Joker.
Punisher - Dire film, dire script but F*** ME Dolf could act the part. Everything else aside he enhabited the part of Frank Castle more than Nicholson did the Joker. His eyes were those of a stone killer, burnt out, empty, as if his very soul had been torn out (poetic but true). His Punisher was a stinking unwashed singleminded psyco, perfection in a crap movie.
X-Men - Suddenly comicbook films were cool again, dodgy ending, great film.
Spider-Man - Dodgy effects, very faithful, awesome ending, the lack of any music to accompany the fight made it more real, more brutal. The sick slap of meat on meat etc this was a superhuman fight done right, it wasn't nice, it wasn't pretty.
Daredevil - Damn it I knew there was a reason I was trying to get a babysitter...
Batman 1966 - If you liked the series then this is perfect.
Unbreakable - Need to see it again, seemed slow and meandering to me the first time, reached the end kinda bored and tired. Determined I'll watch it a few times to 'get' the hype, mind you I hated the Dark Knight Returns the first time I read it so Unbreakable could still become one of my all time fave films.
Matrix - Not just effects, this was a perfect comicbook film, complete with the campness done right (the weapons scene for example).
Rocketeer - mmmm
Fantastic Four - Did someone really mention this????
Nick Fury - Too close a translation at one point, then it threw it away. D-I-R-E.
Empire Strikes Back - Luke is a fledgling Superhero, far more than Star Wars. We get heroics and big battles. Jedi - full blown superhero fights, good comicbook stuff.
Turtles - PAD is a fan, I will pass no comment.
Erm...that's it, no help really I suppose as I've rehashed (with the exception of my Punisher comments which were really the point of this posting). what everyone else has said.
Cheers.
Alan Donald.
PS feel free to check out my new column at SBC www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/final/, PAD (God bless him and all who sail in him) contributes regularly.
Jason wrote:
Is your handle anything to do with being a Danny fan, by any chance? :)
Nope, though I am one of Elfman's biggest fans, both scoring and from his Boingo work, in this case "elf" is merely my initials.
Add my vote to Superman: The Movie. Followed closely by Batman(1989). Others like Spider-Man and X-men were great, but will never be considered classics.
Other good choices are The Crow, Unbreakable, and The Matrix (one of my favorite all-time movies).
However, none of those made you feel like a kid again the way Superman did. Perfect casting, perfect storytelling, and maybe most important, perfect score. That music can still send chills down my back.
SPIDER-MAN. Even with what I thought were unneccesary changes (turning Mary Jane into Peter's childhood crush, changing Flash Thompson's look from preppy to thug) and not using certain characters enough (Jolly Jonah needs to be the main villian in a future sequel!), it was still the best superhero movie I've ever seen.
Excluding BLANKMAN, of course.
I vote for X-MEN. It was able to be a perfectly entertaining super hero movie yet still feel like something more substantial.
My runner-up would be Batman because it actually gave super hero movies style again. Could Superman's Metropolis be any more bland? Tim Burton built a world where Batman could exist and warped everything to it. Beautiful stuff.
Ok, I'll take my turn here. Superman was great, even now. Especially when viewed as a two-parter so I would throw both I and II as one vote. But when it comes to "super-hero" movie, it's hard to think of the adaptions because of the problems with comparing it to the source material and I saw many people talking about flaws, and changes and other such things. With that in mind I come up with a short list for both types: adapted - Supes I & II, Crow and TMNT I. Original - Unbreakable, Darkman and Robocop. Looking at my lists there I throw my vote for best "superhero movie" for Robocp. It was exciting, had a strong heroic character arc and left me with some wonderful "nice" feelings about humanity. "Good work officer. What's your name?" "Murphy." Classic. Now if they'd just release a fully restored version on DVD.
I can't say there's one best superhero movie ever. There's so many different ways to look at it. Like many people, I feel that the best serious superhero movie ever is Superman I & II (which is essentially the same movie). Best movies to capture the essence of a comic book would have to be the entire Star Wars Trilogy (yes, all of them). However, I always find much more enjoyment from movies (and for that matter, people) that don't take themselves too seriously. So on a purely entertainment level, I'd have to give a nod to Mystery Men. Also in the realm of the lighthearted superhero movie, I'd have to say The Mask is one of the better ones.
I don't particularly care for the Tim Burton Batman movies. It may just be me, but I've never really gotten any of his films. But again, I enjoy lots of whimsy.
Hmmm...I was just talking about this the other day and I couldnt quite think of any!!! Needless to say, superhero movies have been w-e-a-k!
Here are my votes:
Dark City - There is just something about this movie...
Forrest Gump - Thats right! I would say he is a superhero in his own right! He saved Lieutenant Dan people...Lieutenant Dan!!
Quantum Leap - There is no truer superhero than the one and only, Sam Beckett! To put right what once went wrong, and his sidekick Al! Possibly the most balanced out of all superhero's. I mean, he could have just had 'relations' with many people and created many offspring had he wanted to...
Batman - good movie
Total Recall
Matrix - Could have used an actual love side-story but whatever!
12 Monkeys - It was cool
and ofcourse, Dude, Where's My Car? I mean the hijinx this dynamic duo gets into!! They had to answer one of Data's questions!!
Those are my pics!
My favorites, out of what has been mentioned so far:
Superman 1, Batman 1, Spiderman 1, The Rocketeer, and the Phantom.
My favorites out of what has NOT been mentioned yet:
a.) Raiders of the Lost Ark: a great action movie ala the old serials; and
b.) Howard the Duck: yes I know the movie "laid an egg", but that is a neat trick for a male duck. Although they should have animated Howard after his arrival on earth.
So far i'm digging all the picks for best supehero film. I won't go into the details of the picks because everyone else had so far said all the things i was going to say. My picks are slightly unconventional but still pretty cool to me.
First off is I-man. I'm not sure if anybody but me remembers this movie. It was disney tv movie starring Scott Bacula as normal guy who becomes industructable thanks breathing Alien gasses and then is recruited by the goverment to save the world. Its a cool movie a great hero story
Then there Monkey Bone which is based on the graphic novel dark town its not totally a superhero movie but i thought it should at least get a mention.
lastly there is Atlantis the lost Empire. A very cool movie which the closet thing you'll get to animated comic book. Course Mike Mignola did the work on the movie so that helps. Its great action movie and the closet things to American anima american audiences.
No one's mentioned it, but I thought "The Mask" was pretty good as a superhero film even if the comic book source was somewhat less than heroic.
Also enjoyable: "X-Men", "The Crow", "Batman" (the Keaton film).
Well, I have to second all the Superman, Batman, Phantom, Spider-Man, and Daredevil votes.
I'll also pop my two cents in for Mystery Men, Men In Black, The Rocketeer, The Shadow, X-Men, and the many others.
I'd like to mention The One. I was a Jet Li movie a year or two ago. It had superpowers, a tuely epic battle, and some great directorial artistry.
For best though? Superman.
Really loved the Lone Wolf and Cub movies. I've seen about four of them, all subtitled. I think there are 6 in total that ever made it to NTSC, but don't quote me on that. I don't know if LW&C really qualifies as a 'Superhero' comic, but the movies definitley had the pulp spirit in them. Gotta love those stage blood pumps! Btw, if anyone has seen the new DVD box set ANYWHERE! please let me know because I've been trying to find it for months!
As for American Superhero movies, I am really glad that I wasn't the only one remembering the Rocketeer here. The movie tie-in book, coincidentally, was also one of the first books by Peter that I ever read. The Rocketeer was just two hours of good clean pulp fun.
My other favourites include the first Batman movie, strictly for Jack Nicholson's performance,and, if we are counting movies with the Superhero/pulp spirit, then Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, and Raiders of the Lost Ark too. Mystery Men was probably the only comic book company project in the last decade that I really enjoyed thoroughly. I mean, X-men, Spider-Man and Daredevil were ok, but they just had too many "action figure" moments for my liking.
I don't like picking "the" favorite, since so often it depends on mood at the moment, but one of my favorite "superhero" movies is Hero at Large starring John Ritter and Anne Archer.
No, really.
Everyone should go rent that one at least once.
-B
Two of the best comic-to-film adaptations of recent years aren't even superhero films: Road to Perdition and the vastly underrated From Hell.
My picks for the top superhero films:
The Rocketeer.
Batman: Mask of the Phantasm.
Superman II.
Spider-Man.
Mystery Men.
Yes, it's recent, but I have to go with Spider-Man over all the others for one simple reason. Peter has asked for the best super-hero movie, and of all the movies that have been made about these guys who wear their underwear on the outside, no movie has captured the transformation of a person into a hero better than that one.
---KRAD
Best super-hero movie. Hm. "Superman the Movie" for me. When I was twelve years old, I saw it eight times in the theater, and I believed a man could fly. Christopher Reeve's incredible dual-acting job was incredible; Clark Kent was a completely different character from Superman.
"Superman II" hasn't held up as well for me, but when it was in theaters, I thought it was fantastic.
I love "Unbreakable." I think it's one of the finest super-hero films ever made.
I'd cast my vote for Superman II. Superman one was actually kinda boring, and the whole turn back time thing blew.
Honorable mentions for:
Rocketeer
The Crow
Blade
Batman
X-men
Definitely NOT one of the best:
Spider-man
Any Batman after 1
Any Crow after 1
Am I the only one who didn't like Jack Nicholson's performance in Batman? I always remember thinking he got the role and something like a total of $50 million (salary plus part of the gross) because the studio wanted a bigger name than Michael Keaton to be able to sell the movie to the public. Nicholson got billing over Keaton as well.
But I wasn't very impressed with the performance. He jumped around, he sang, he danced, he preened, but I never got the feeling of sheer crazed terror and lunacy I was hoping for. I also thought the Joker should have been slimmer, more wiry, and younger. (Though with the movie's story of Jack Napier having killed Bruce Wayne's parents, Napier would have to be at least 12 years older than Bruce Wayne, perhaps more.)
Back in 1989 I thought James Woods would have been great in the role. Or John Malkovich. And as we know now, Mark Hamill would have absolutely nailed the part.
As for best Superhero movie -- I am still out on that one. When I have more time to figure that out I may be back...One I would like to see done as a film...Soulsearchers and Company would be a great film!
Xyon
not to ape what everyone else has already stated, but if we are going on pure comic adaptation, then I vote for the first Superman film, followed closely by the first Batman feature.
However, I think the best rendition of any comic ever filmed is the fist "Darkman" film. The plot reads right out of some comics, and all the necessary elements are in place. Sam Raimi made, in my opinon, a great comic book film. I can't, and won't say as much for the sequels, however.
Superman: The Movie wins for its faithfulness and incredible casting of unknown Chris Reeve as Superman.
Sure, the Otis nonsense is bothersome, but it's so minor. The first half of the film is especially good. If any superhero movie should have won best picture, this was it.
I also think Unbreakable could have been the best ever, but the ending kind of derailed it.
Drat! Someone beat me to Hero at Large. I loved that movie.
I cry every time Superman tells the President that he'll never let him down again. Powerful stuff. I guess I'll have to go with Superman; the movie though.
Damn, I wish someone would edit a special edition of superman 1 & 2 as 1 four our movie and cut out some of the crap out of #2
This topic seems to be a pretty tough call. On the one hand, you've got The Rocketeer. A smooth and slick movie that still had a sense of wonder to it. On the other hand, you've got The Crow. It held fast to the comic and made you believe in it. I'm still debating whether or not you can classify the Crow as a superhero or just a vigilante. Gotta give the Rocketeer the nod.
\i(Superman). No bones about it. Hate to come in late and repeat what everyone else already said, but it's true. Donner treated it like a \i(movie), period. He didn't assume that the genre from which the material originated had to inform what the movie looked like, any more than if it were based on a novel or play.
And frankly, I didn't find any of the elements campy at all. Underground dwellings have been around for a long time, as have been attractive molls and doltish sidekicks, none of which felt campy to me in this particular film.
"Am I the only one who didn't like Jack Nicholson's performance in Batman? I always remember thinking he got the role and something like a total of $50 million (salary plus part of the gross) because the studio wanted a bigger name than Michael Keaton to be able to sell the movie to the public. Nicholson got billing over Keaton as well."
honeestly nicholson was the only think i really liked about the first batman movie.
I am a long time comic fan and most of the moives people have listed including the burton batman's the and superman films I hated
to me the best supoer hero film is spiderma. it is the only adaptaion that didn't make me cringe at the alterations. I also liked who they casted in the roles dispite the fact that I wouldn't have casted them (another problem I have with most films).
Hero at large gets my nod for best non adaptaion. it really conveys the meaning of being a hero.
Batman mask of the phantasm gets my nod for animated super hero film. (thought the surprise of the villain's idenity having been done first in dick tracy took a little wind out of it)
my favorite batman film is the 60's campy one.
my favorite superman is the richard pryor one since I at least laughed during that one
For me, Superman the Movie
It just "clicks" for me. From the Christopher Reeve Superman/CK performance to the wonderful John Williams score. The movie had the right touch.
Heck, I even liked Otis (Otisburg, indeed :-))
What's the best color? The best food? For Pete's sake, what was the best comic book?
The "best" comic book movie is subjective, and thankfully, we're getting to the point where that question becomes harder to answer.
My FAVORITES were Superman 1 and 2 and the Rocketeer.
( I didn't understand the comic book adaptation though. Peevy gets a gun pointed at him halfway through through the book, then we never see him again until the final pages. What happened?)
Of course, I would spell my own name wrong in my last post.
Sigh.
Superman II for sure - but Hulk will be giving it a run for it's money.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. heres my reasons
after coming back to the sewer, finding their home ransacked...roundhouse-pan around raphael as he screams "SPLIIIINTEEEEERRRRRRRR!"
I love how seriously it takes itself;
Okay theres a Ninja crimewave sweeping New York City..yes and?
And Four foot tall Turtle Ninjas live in the sewer...yes and?
and thusly a fantastic, well paced, fun, witty, dramatic, large scale film is achieved.
perfect.
-THE BARON
I'm torn between "The Rocketeer" and "Superman".
"The Rocketeer" has mobsters, Nazis, and sweet, sweet Jennifer Connelly. But "Superman", for all its faults, is a sentimental favourite. The best scenes in "Superman" are some of the best movie scenes EVER. So that's gotta be worth something.
Actual comic-book adapted movies - gonna hafta join in with the crowd here -
Rocketeer
Superman II
Batman: Mask Of The Phantasm
Spider-Man
The Crow
X-Men
Mystery Men
Comic-Book Inspired:
The Matrix
Unbreakable
Darkman
Army Of Darkness
If we're adding non-super-hero comic book movies to the list (Which it seems we are), howabout Josie & The Pussycats?
Howcome nobody has voted for Condorman? (Oh, probably because of the whole "awful" thing)
Third & Fourth Batman & Superman movies? Dunno what you're on there... they only made the 2 for each. A Batman movie with Val Kilmer and Jim Carrey, where Robin makes a "Holy" quip? Arnie as Mr Freeze? Nipples on the Batsuits? Superman vs. Richard Pryor? Mystery Ingredient in Fake Kryptonite is Tar?NUCLEARMAN? ...nah, you guys are yankin' my chain. They'd never have made films like that... the fanboys would be rabid...
I'm sure no one is reading by this point, but if I don't voice how breathtakingly awful I think the Superman movies are now, I'm pretty sure I'll regret it. So then:
AWFUL. AWFUL AWFUL AWFUL.
That's all. (And, yes, I realize that's not helpful. I'm not trying to be helpful. I'm just trying to wash off the filth of a hundred nice comments about those Superman films.)
The Fantastic Four movie just because it was never released. Saw a bootleg, though, and it wasn't half bad.
Top Five Favorite Super Hero Movies
5) The Mask
4) Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
3) X-men
2) Mystery Men
1) Superman
Top Five Worst
5) Superman III
4) Superman VI
3) Puma Man
2) Supergirl
1) Batman and Robin
God, how bad do you have to be to rank LOWER than Puma Man.
Top Five WORST Super Hero movies
Mask of the Phantasm, Rocketeer, The Mask of Zorro, and The Shadow are all worthy contenders. The film that I think made the most impact with me was THE IRON GIANT. He even uses a Superman comic as inspiration to overcome his programming and to perform a truly heroic act.
Just have to add my vote for Superman as well...
Superman 1: Best comic movie ever? Best Superhero casting in Christopher Reeve and best superhero theme but I don't think of it as best movie. Most of the people who vote for it say it's the best if you "just ingore this and that" For something to be the best you shouldn't have to do that. Out of the 2 Peter picks I say Rocketeer.
As far as Batman goes, I thought it was decent at the time but then I actually read the comics. The movie was so much more style than substance. If Burton would have made Gordon and Dent half the characters they are in the comic, made the suit workable enough to move for a couple fight scenes, and made the movie a Batman film, not a Burton one it might be worthy. (And why is the movies Batman such a bad driver? He's crashed almost every vehicle he's owned?)
Not only would I say Batman mask of the Phantasm was 10x better but it's my pick for best comic movie ever.
As far as live action goes, I really thought Blade 2 was an exceptional movie. It took everything good about the first movie and multiplied it by 3. It took great elements from comics but didn't have that comic-book movie tunnelvision that alienates the rest of the audience. Based on this movie, I'm looking forward to the Hellboy movie more than X2 and Hulk. And I never even read Hellboy.
This is a little of topic but a friend of mine was telling me that he didn't like Spiderman cause of the lack of web-shooters. In my opinion (and I've said it before)this gave the movie a lot of credit. You can take a lot for granted in a comic but showing Peter as a down on his luck type everyman, yet being smart enough to create this amazing marketable technology which just happens to be spider related is asking too much for a movie audience to believe. Am I the only one who sees it that way?
Best over all SH movie: Unbreakable
Best Super group movie: Mystery Men
Best Marvel Adaption: DareDevil
Best DC adaption: Superman II
Best Dark Horse: The Mask
Honorable mentions: Rocketter
I would also like to comment that Hero At Large was pretty good as well.
Unbreakable had it all for me: confused (at first) but deeply heroic/inately *good* hero; loving physical-therapist wife who not only supports him (once she understands what's happening) but can train him as well, and child who can look up to him and maybe has the genes to be the next generation hero and/or doctor. I want a sequel exploring this :)
I was not going to add to this topic until Patrick mentioned Dark City.
Now while this is not my all time favourite I still remember the feeling I had when I watched this movie. I had not heard of it before and just happened to catch it on TV, I was blown away!
I could not believe how such a great movie was not known to me, I intend to watch this again soon to see if it will still have the same effect on me.
My fovourite Comic book movie is the Matrix and then Unbreakable.
These come close but always seem to be lacking something.
Superman 1 & 2 - Best superhero fight and at that age I was blown away, but I hated the flying around the world and also the beams from their hands, whats up with that?
Spider-Man - Second best Hero fight, the buts include some dodgy CGI, that power ranger outfit and I hate the concept of the only superhero and the only supervillian happen to be so closely related!
X-Men - Great on many counts but really bad superhero fight scenes and no berserker rage!
Batman - I hated Keaton and the costume always seemed too stiff and rubberized to me.
Bring on Shazam the movie!
If "best" means capturing the flavor of comics, the style and tone, and still have overall story quality, then the Rocketeer is the only choice. The Shadow and Phantom are right behind. All caught the flavor of the comics/pulps, all were consistant and the stories held together well.
Superman was good until he went to Metropolis, and then it became a different genre. Reeves was great as Superman, but misunderstood Kent. Luther could have been good, but wasn't. The rest was horrible. Lousy casting for the Metropolis crew (except maybe Perry).
Batman - all of them - blew. Burton can't tell a story to save his life and muddled 'dark' with 'ugly', and the others were too camp.
Spider-man was very good, but Toby blew it for me (his voice, for whatever reason, grated).
I loved Daredevil, but the story was all over the place. Tighten it up and it would take the top spot.
Well, lemmie think of as many as I can first.
Spider-Man
X-Men
Daredevil
Hulk
Darkman
Punisher
Superman
SM 2
SM 3
SM 4
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Batman-old
Batman
Batman Returns
Batman Forever
Batman and Robin
Dark Angel (full moon)
Trancers series
Dollman
Phantom
Rocketeer
Robocop
Mystery Men
The Shadow
Unbreakable
Mask of Zorro
The Crow
Buckaroo Banzai
Matrix
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Howard the Duck
Black Mask
Army of Darkness
Condorman
Meteor Man
Blankman
Hero at Large
Tankgirl
Supergirl
Of these I would say....
Hmm.
Damnit.
Maybe X.. nah
Shoot.
MOST FAITHFUL ADAPTION:Superman
BEST PICTURE:Unbreakable
BEST SFX:Matrix
MOST FUN:Mystery Men
I'd vote for THE BATMAN SUPERMAN MOVIE. This one had great action, a wonderful portrayal of the rivalry between these two, a very nice twist of the Superman-Lois relationship, and all of Batman's brilliance and dexterity that was left out of the live-action movies... great movie all around. THE ROCKETEER is a close second, capturing the old cliffhanger serial-style of movies.
Also, since there have been a few (far too few) superhero pornos, I'd vote for the fun BATBABE and the nicely done X-GIRLS in the Adult Superhero Cetegory. Yow!
How can anyone pick Superman the Movie as the best? Did you not see the whole go back in time by reversing the rotation of the earth part?
I don't think there's a superhero movie that quite holds together yet. Spider-man was fun but falls apart once the Goblin shows up. X-men has some brilliant moments but falls apart once they get to the Statue of Liberty. Daredevil was good until the openning credits started (just kidding). Batman is a fun movie but it doesn't really feel like Batman or the Joker or even Gordon for that matter.
Well, at least a few people agree Dark City kicks ass (if not the best) - thanks!
And I notice that no one has mentioned Barb Wire when talking about worst movies -- come on, it's even worse than Puma Man (and doesn't even have the cache of having an MST3K episode) and very nearly as bad as Superman IV or Batman and Robin. Come on, let's give Barb Wire the props it deserves!
I think Superman The Movie had some of the best, thrilling superhero moments in movie history (I still get goosebumps whenever I see the whole helicotper rescue scene), but it really dragged much of the time, some of the casting was completely wrong (Margot Kidder was NOT a good Lois Lane), and then there's the mess at the end....
My favorite (and in my opinion, the best) superhero movie is one that I think only one other poster has mentioned here:
The Iron Giant!
This movie (still) brings tears to my eyes. Thought it was animated (which may or may not count against it), it had some truely touching and heroic moments. A great story and a great movie.
For me the best Superhero movie has to be THE MATRIX.
My other personal favorites are THE SHADOW, THE PHANTOM and THE ROCKETEER.
If you want to take movies that are based on actual comic book characters my top five would be
BATMAN RETURNS
SUPERMAN II
X-MEN
SPIDER-MAN
BLADE
Astérix: Mission Cleopatra is number one in my book, way beyond any other one ever made.
J.C.
I really can't think of a best super-hero film, Superman came close but blew it after the 1st night in Metropolis really, Batman and Batman Returns had a wonderful style and Michael Keaton but just didn't feel right to me, same with Spider-Man and X-Men, they were ok but just didn't convince me.
I'm tempted to go with The Rocketeer since there was alot of charm and warmth in it, but live action was never specified... so Batman: Mask Of The Phantasm, shame the live action films never lived up to the animated series.
Worst Super-hero film has to be the Spider-Man live action tv show with Nicholas Hammond, some bright spark decided to give it a cinema release here in the UK, though when you're 5-ish you'd hopefully be forgiven for loving it... right? I was actually lucky enough to grow up reading the original Stan Lee/Steve Ditko Spidey comics, my mum bless her always bought the Marvel Tales reprints for me without realising it, I always prefered them to the contemporary comics that I'd occasionally get too.
So I'm a bit late, but I think the best SH movie ever was Alec Baldwin's The Shadow - but it was overlooked and despite the fact that the Shadow came first, too many critics without a sense of history trashed it as a ripoff of Batman.
But I'm also a big fan of 1920s and 30s radio dramas and pulp novels (despite the fact they were written before my parents were born), so I may just be glad the Shadow actually had a modern movie.
Started re-watching Spider-Man now to try and make up my mind. I have to say I really don't like the music, too Batman-y for my liking. And the webshooters... spidey tried to sell the formula way back in the comics but no one wanted it cause it dissolved so quickly so surely they aren't that major a plot problem for the film to include, plus Pete being a science whizz is a pretty major part of the character to leave out.
Y'know, for decades folks have commented on how they hate the spin-Earth-backward ending of Superman: The Movie, and that's fine. If you don't like the suspense-killing deus ex machina qualities of time-travel, that's fine. If you have to take the sight of Superman reversing the Earth's rotation literally (rather than some filmmaker's visual metaphor or whatever) then that's fine. When I re-watch Superman: The Movie the ending doesn't bug me too much; your mileage may vary.
But there's a moment in the movie that does bug me every time I watch it, that I find disturbing in new and different ways as I get older. Superman's first night in Metropolis. He comes across a girl whose cat is caught in a tree, retrieves the cat, gives it to the girl, and flies away. The girl runs inside and we hear her tell her mother than a man flew down from the sky and saved her cat. And we hear the mother scold her for telling stories. And we hear her slap the girl.
I don't want to get into a whole thing about child-rearing and corporal punishment here. But the fact that the filmmakers put that slap in there disturbs me every time I rewatch the film. It makes me wonder if, perhaps, that girl needs more help than just a guy in tights picking up her pet. It reinforces the idea that Superman just can't do everything for everyone all the time. For me, that slap, for one moment, breaks the film's escapism, and I find it the sequence fascinating and disturbing all at once for it.
Obviously, I've thought too much about it--but that's what happens when you watch and rewatch movies. I still think Superman: The Movie is one of the greatest superhero movies ever, but to the degree the film bugs me, it ain't the world spinning backward that bugs me, it's the fact that a little girl might just have gotten herself hit.
Seems like this thread has degraded to "best comic movie adaption" instead of "best superhero movie". But, for the best superhero, I would have to go with Robocop. Murphy was a hero before getting chopped up and rebuilt, went thru all of the self doubt and angst afterwards, and emerged a better hero.
And thankfully Frank Miller and the producers didn't go with Lewis as Robobabe in the sequel.
I would also go with Remo Williams, one of the most fun movies ever made!
-Jeff
"I think the best SH movie ever was Alec Baldwin's The Shadow - but it was overlooked and despite the fact that the Shadow came first, too many critics without a sense of history trashed it as a ripoff of Batman."
The Shadow was OK. It had a nice look and feel to it, but it's still not my favorite movie. I didn't find Penelope Ann Miller was not at all impressive as Margo Lane. Alec Baldwin's Lamont Cranston was a bit too wise-cracky for my tastes. And some of the movie's inconsistencies about the Shadow's abilities broke my suspension of disbelief. (Things like: if the Shadow becomes invisible because he hypnotically clouds people's minds so they don't see him, how can they discover him when he leaves footprints in water?)
So "The Shadow" is OK, but not great, and not the best in my opinion.
I totaly agree, Superman the Movie tops the list. It is a great combination of visuals and musical choreography, integrated in such a way that it stirs up emotions in you! It gets my heart racing everytime I hear the trumpet play the first five bars of the theme music, no other "hero theme" affects me like that.
On the B-side, I would choose the first Batman movie. I liked it because it gave me greater insight into the dark side of the B-man. Also, Michael Keaton was great in that part.
I'm gonna look at this question from a pure cinematics point of view, because I'm kind of a media junkie. :)
Here are my picks:
Batman (1989) - Tim Burton did an excellent job making you feel like you were actually in Gotham City. Everything down to the weather, the buildings, cars, lightning, and music was just right.
Unbreakable - This is probably the first super-hero movie I've seen that outlines what is often glazed over in comics - that being a super-hero is often very, very emotionally taxing.
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon - A "classic" story of a heroine who started out in darkness, but came into light because of a pure heart and the dedicated aid of others.
The Fifth Element - Most people think of this simply as a mystical action movie, but it does qualify. It involves a super-type who was created specifically for the job of saving the world, but has a hard time dealing with it when the time comes.
Supergirl - I added this to the list not as a joke, but as a lesson. While the direction and writing in the movie was pretty bad, the character of Supergirl shone through strongly enough to earn this film cult status.
Princess Mononoke - Yes, it's odd to include an anime, but this movie teaches a lot about the power of persistence.
Superman - This film remains a classic, and was a breakthrough in comic-to-film adaptaions. It would get my vote as "the best" only because it has reached iconic status.
I would have included Dark City and The Matrix, but there seem to be too many of those idiot-hero-finds-inner-power-and-learns-to-run-the-world movies floating around these days.
Are there problems with "Superman"? Absolutely. It's dated. The Otis line was silly. As a female reporter, I cringe at Lois' "interview" with Superman and the maudlin poem during her flight.
I still rate it the best superhero movie ever.
Each superhero movie since, even the marvelous "Batman," has been overhyped beyond any hope of meeting expectations. In the ensuing years, those expectations have lowered to "cool special effects" and "good fight scenes." We can't possibly allow narrative flow, character development, strong dialogue, a sense of theme and purpose or other such concepts that are, ironically, strong in the comics themselves, to interfere with the cash cows of the movies.
This is why I was disappointed in the admittedly fun "Spiderman." When the Green Goblin soars away cackling, "We'll meet again, Spiderman!" I just cringed. It's not about suspension of disbelief - we always have to suspend our disbelief, or we'd never believe James Bond, still alive and the same age since World War II without succumbing to veneral disease. Reversing time by reversing the world? Well, if you believe a man can fly...
"Superman" had the benefit of Mario Puzo behind the typewriter and John Williams behind the baton. Hollywood has a tendency to dumb a story down to the lowest common denominator. "Superman" managed to avoid that. When Superman tells Lois, "I'm here to fight for truth, justice and the American way," she's the only one laughing. We believe him. No superhero before or since could pull that off.
Lots of superhero movies are fun to watch. But I can't help thinking back to the deep voice of Marlon Brando telling Superman, "They are a great people, Kal-El - they wish to be. It is for that reason above all, their capacity for good, that I have sent them you. My only son."
That's writing. That's allegory. That's compelling fiction. That's why I go to the movies.
A couple other thoughts--would Dick Tracy be considered a superhero movie? If not, then Warren Beatty has GOT to be considered a superhero strictly for his sexual prowess! And while it was T.V. and not cinema, we must not forget The Man From Atlantis. Like every good superhero, Patrick Duffy even got resurrected (of course, that technically took place on "Dallas," but let's not split hairs...)
Just wondering what you guys are basing you decisions on. Alot of people said a movie such as Spiderman or Batman would get your vote if it were not for the flaws or if it had been more faithful, but then there are alot of votes for The Rocketeer. Do you base you choice for the Rocketeer from having read it as a comic book as well or just from seeing the movie?
Just wondering...
btw, Blade gets my vote.
Here are mine favorite super-heroes films:
1) Superman, that is how to do a super-hero film right.
2) The Rocketeer, a fun movie without being too campy
3) Batman, the best live action film of the dark knight.
4) The Crow, dark and entertaining movie.
5) Blade, a well done vampire movie.
I am not a fan of the Superman or Batman movies. Even for the time, the special effects on Superman did not make me believe a man could fly. In Superman II, I was incensed by the way he treated Lois at the end and the petty going back to beat the bullies. That's not my Superman.
I did not care for Jack Nicholson's Joker and the Prince music in Batman. I actually like Batman Returns better solely because of Michelle Pfeiffer's performance as Catwoman/Selina.
I thought Tobey Maguire nailed Peter Parker perfectly so Spider-Man is my favorite superhero flick.
I saw The Rocketeer movie before I read the comic and loved it. After having read the comic, I still do. Even keeping her clothes on Jennifer Connelly is a very sexy Betty.
I also liked The Phantom a whole lot and Unbreakable was awesome!
I liked X-Men but was disappointed in Daredevil.
Sam Tomaino
I wold have to say that it is a toss up between Buckaroo Banzai and Mystery Men. Both fun, entertaining movies.
Well if this has proven anything, it is that, to paraphrase, another person's meat is another's poison.
Here is my list of favorite "superhero" movies :
1. Superman I
2. Superman II
3. The animated Superman shorts by
Dave and Max Fleischer
4. Batman : Mask of the Phantasm
5. Daredevil
6. Spiderman
7. X-men
8. Batman (1989)
9. The Shadow
10. The Mask
I was a little nervous posting, but I can see my opinion is pretty well supported.
Superman: The Movie. Maybe because it was the first superhero movie I ever say, so it's nostaligic... but even today I still consider it the best ever superhero film to date.
My other option would be DareDevil. I think they got it right. Though in some ways it was not as faithful to the comic as it could have been, it did what it had to do to become a theatrical release worthy of the spirit of the comic.
The roles were beautifully cast, and though I had doubts, Ben Affleck works wonderfully as the title character.
I'm afraid Siderman didn't quite get there for me.
A good film which I really enjoyed, but I don't know, it's missing something. Others have mentioned it above, but personally I can't put my finger on it.
My favorite..
1. Superman I (sure there were bad parts, but at least this wasn't the sequel where he had repairGreatWall-vision.. and he did travel thru time in the comics)
2. Mystery Men (I loved this and really enjoyed the Shovelers fight scene at the end)
3. Batman - Mask of the Phantasm (I remember seeing this in the theaters and wondering why the live action movies just can't get it right)
4. Blade (didn't care for the sequel)
5. X-Men (incredible cannot wait until X2)
Spiderman was good for being an origin movie. But it didn't excite me enough.
Buckeroo Banzai gets at least a nod. I enjoyed it and would have watched a sequel.
The Shadow and the Phantom were both good movies.
Just a nitpick: Superman didn't reverse the spin of the Earth (that wouldn't make things happen backward, the earth is not a film strip). It is Superman's point of view (as a kid I had it worked out that if you cross over the international dateline so many times you'd go back in time. I was pretty excited when they came out with the Concorde...).
They had the option of doing the old fly-through-concentric-circles-in-rainbow-hues but that would have totally bewildered the audience who never read the Superboy and the Legion of Superheroes books.
Sadly, this was apparently confusing, too. Point taken about the deus ex machina aspect, but that's really over thinking it. Yes it created problems for future movies, but they didn't know there would be future movies.
Superman 1, hands down.
It wasn't simply a great superhero flick, it was great moviemaking.
Spiderman follows a close second.
Okay, first off, lemme tell you all that I certainly enjoyed Superman 1 and 2.
And then, I also enjoyed the Mask with Jim Carrey. Those, to say the least, are my favorite ones by far.
And then, even the Spider-Man movie was maginificient. Not 100% perfect, but it was still quite excellent, and I liked both Maguire and Dunst's roles very much.
Unfortunately, I'm going to have to disagree almost completely on the X-Men movie. Here's why:
-It trivialized the Holocaust by writing Magneto as using his magnetic superpowers within the concentration camp. If this were real life, he would surely have been able to smash the nazi dicatatorship in almost all of Europe within a short amount of time. Bad calculations in scriptwriting, to say the least. I assume that they did that as a way of sidestepping the comic book's background involving Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver? Trust me, they could've written it far less awkwardly than it was there.
-There didn't seem to be much of a menace in public to any of the mutants in the movie, and any that did take place, if at all, was quickly forgotten.
-The part with Wolverine and Rogue did touch me at first, but then it lost steam and credibility, mainly because that too was otherwise quickly forgotten.
-The way that Magneto was depicted here in fact, as being even more deadly or willing to use deadly force than his comic book counterpart was also actually rather disturbing, and I ended up wondering if they went at least partially overboard in writing him.
-The sequel setup was insulting. To put it this way, it's not the sequel I consider the most important thing to deal with, it's making the film and its messages convincing first. And this film in my opinion didn't do that.
I don't want to argue with anyone who liked the movie, but upon seeing that it committed some very awkward mistakes akin to what J. Michael Straczynski and John Romita Jr. committed when putting together Amazing Spider-Man #36 a year and a half ago, even running the risk of insulting the victims of these crimes against humanity, I was really devastated. I'm not bothered by the leather costumes, nor am I bothered that Janssen's age makes her a questionable casting choice, I'm just bothered that this movie, contrary to what some people said back in 2000, was not written as well as it could've been and that the writing was slapdash at best.
When David Ansen reviewed the movie for Newsweek back then, he said that by all rights it should've ben a disaster. It is. Maybe such critics felt that it would be in bad form to pan it for the fact that it really is a dud in spite of everything, and that it'd be going against the establishment, but the truth is that this is a very badly thought out movie that ends up disappointing for real reasons and not for the fact that the characters wear leather costumes. Whatever anyone's opinions, anyone reading this may want to consider the points I've given here.
I vote for Unbreakable. I thought it did an incredible job of showing how a regular Joe would handle a "power" like invincibility. I love the twist ending too.
See, I get wrapped around the axle on the whole "does-it-have-to-be-from-an-ACTUAL-comic" thing. I thought The Adventures of Baron Munchausen was a GREAT comic book movie, for example -- like an 18th century Avengers. And where do you classify a movie like The Shadow?
But if we're talking ACTUAL comics, then I go with:
Spider-Man
Ghost World
Heavy Metal
1. donnie darko (did anyone else see this movie!a reluctant superhero with serious emotional problems yet is still able to save the world by sacrificing his life!)
2.Unbreakable
3.Dark City (the dude could move stuff with his mind)
4.Matrix (Neo was a superhero)
5.Darkman (a bit melodramatic but very good)
Xmen was good, but not enough story, and it was more Wolverine than xmen and I'm biased because I like cyclops and they made him dick. They even call him that in the movie. One of joss whedon's only lines that survived both other writers and bad acting.
Quote from Avi: It trivialized the Holocaust by writing Magneto as using his magnetic superpowers within the concentration camp. If this were real life, he would surely have been able to smash the nazi dicatatorship in almost all of Europe within a short amount of time. Bad calculations in scriptwriting, to say the least. I assume that they did that as a way of sidestepping the comic book's background involving Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver? Trust me, they could've written it far less awkwardly than it was there.
That is an idiotic criticism - that only works if kid magneto knew what his powers were doing - I got the sense that kid magneto did it by reflex and had no idea what was going on.
Superman wasn't my generation. I've seen it, I loved it, but it still doesn't say "best" to me.
For me it will always be X-MEN. It was a damn good movie and for my money, the best transfer from comics to film.
BATMAN was also something I'd give the nod to, I just hated the fat Commissioner Gordon.
And Spider-man was horrible.
Not sure about the best EVER superhero film, but I have to say - after seeing a press preview of X2 - that Bryan Singer absolutely nails the heart of God Loves, Man Kills in a way that I didn't expect even the man behind The Usual Suspects to do. He's made a commercial action movie with a deep and emotional storyline.
Very impressed (and I see about 100 movies a year!)
John
Have to disagree with the critique of X-Men. It could have been better, but the points made against it were in many way strengths. I got that Magneto's early display of powers was hooked to the emotional wrenching of seeing his parent's dragged away. Imagine having the power, but not knowing how to access it. His unwillingness to see it happen again makes sense now that he does have control. Of course he would be lethal to those he sees as nazis.
Superman is the film that failed miserably (mostly due to budget, I assume). Had they carried on the thoughtful (but albeit slow) Smallville tone into the rest of it, you'd have a good film, but as it was it was embarrassing. From thoughtful to silly is not good filmmaking.
Avi Green writes: "It trivialized the Holocaust by writing Magneto as using his magnetic superpowers within the concentration camp. If this were real life, he would surely have been able to smash the nazi dicatatorship in almost all of Europe within a short amount of time. Bad calculations in scriptwriting, to say the least. I assume that they did that as a way of sidestepping the comic book's background involving Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver? Trust me, they could've written it far less awkwardly than it was there."
I wouldn't guess that the X-Men scriptwriter(s) wrote that scene specifically to circumvent the Magneto's comic-book origins with the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver. Rather, I'd guess that the scene was written as it was in order to efficiently convey some history and characterization to Magneto's character. The filmmakers want viewers to understand that at least some of Magneto's motivations arise from his experiences in a concentration camp, so they depict the concentration camp. So that viewers can identify this character later (and understand why we're focusing on him in that scene) they show him using some magnetic powers. The filmmakers are reasonably vague as to how powerful Magneto is at that point (bending a metal gate a little is a bit more than Uri Geller can do, but it might not be enough to escape scott free and destroy the Axis) or indeed, how aware of his powers he is at that point.
Of course, if one doesn't like the scene, then one doesn't like the scene. And if one thinks unrealistic depictions of Holocaust settings in fiction trivialize the historical reality of the Holocaust, that's understandable too.
But I can also understand why that scene is there and why it's structured like it is.
By RabidWolfe:
That is an idiotic criticism - that only works if kid magneto knew what his powers were doing - I got the sense that kid magneto did it by reflex and had no idea what was going on.
I'm sorry, but while it did seem that way, it still - or can - come across as being in very questionable taste, since he could've figured out more about his powers soon afterwards, and like I said...
In fact, supposing he were chased across the country by nazi troops and then had to take steps to stop them? Many of the victims and refugees who were persecuted at the time could not have defended themselves from the enemy forces who were pursuing them the way that he could. There were some cases in which some refugees were able to ambush a nazi troop and take their weapons, but in Magneto's case, he could disarm them while concealing himself from view and defeat them much more easliy and quickly than any refugee could in real life.
SO you see, that the movie version of Magneto was not only shown using his powers within the concentration camp, but never even tried to go on the warpath and destroy the nazi tyranny after losing his parents there is one of the film's biggest mistakes in blending fact with fiction. And to say the least, there are some cases in which the two lines cannot intersect.
Whatever, it should be noted again that the movie dealt so little with the Holocaust later on that, as even Rolling Stone said, people could rightfully argue that the movie trivializes the subject as a result.
There were a few good lines such as where Mystique told Sen. Kelly that people like him made her scared to go to school when she was young, but other than that, as even The Nation said, it's almost like a hollow void.
I want you to know that I'm not happy about having to say all this. I'm not even remotely happy. But I feel that the movie was very badly miscalculated, and I'm sad to say that I've decided to skip the sequel this summer.
Claremont had Magneto using his powers in the concentration camp as well. They prevented him from being killed when he and his family were shot in front of an open grave. It was either X-Men 199 or one of the Classic X-Men back up stories with John Bolton that goes into it.
As for movies, THE SPECIALS, starring Rob Lowe and Thomas Hayden Church is a must see.
Avi, you're very young aren't you....? >sigh<
Pardon me while I leap to conclusions here but with the name Avi Green, I'm going to assume you take the Holocause very personally and that's certainly understandable but bear in mind this was a movie and only a movie. Magneto couldn't have stopped the Nazis and if he had, that would have trivialized the subject matter.
If we just look at the film from a story point of view, there's no reason to believe Magneto even knew what he was doing since it was raining and he was hysterical, even less reason to think he was causing this effect and absolutely no reason to jump into a costume and start fighting the Axis Menace. That's why I guess you're young. Take a look at "Unbreakable", a movie a lot of others here loved (I despised just about every dull, ponderous minute of it, BTW) because it made one point very well. If you lived in the real world, even if you absolutely knew you had super powers it would be quite a leap to becoming the Incredible Weasel-Man.
From a more thematic point of view, Singer is making the point by jumping to it in the next scene that the effort to get mutants to register is the first step down the slippery slope to what happened in Germany in the 30's.