PeterDavid.net

Smallville: Here I thought Clark was going to reveal his powers to Lana. Wrong. It's getting tough for me to stay with this series. I hate Freak of the Weeks... but this season is better than last so far.

Angel: Excellent. Tap Tap Tap. Lindsay? Sweet. Fight between Spike and Angel? Perfect. Angel admitting his butt got kicked? Even better. This is the Angel I like. Not the first three eps.

Travis

Yup, Whedon, Fury DeKnight and Co have a way of making you spot a twist coming and then sucker-punching you while you revel in your (wrong smugness).

I still think that Spike's appearance in the show negates what would have been a perfect and an entry into 'classic TV character' history and his great lines are really showing Angel to be the least interesting character of the episodes so far.

However great stunt-work, nice dialogue, a nice story (albeit with the convenient 'get-out-of-crisis-free card - and hasn't that been a problem with The West Wing, all build-up and then pay-offs off-camera?), helluva ending. Typical Mutant Enemy stuff.

When *IS* the next Angel scheduled?

John

Peter, you nailed exactly my nit with the WB's moronic promo twits. All of the teasing on SMALLVILLE would have been fine IF THEY HADN'T SHOWN US THE PLOT TWIST IN THE TEASER! And I can't figure out--Does Lionel Luther really love Lex and want him to be his eventual heir, or does he consider him a dangerous threat that needs to be dealt with? They constantly bounce back and forth and it keeps me guessing.

And that may have been my favorite ANGEL. When Eve told a sympathetic Fred, "I'm not the bad guy," I thought, the hell you're not! But Lindsay's reappearance had me cheering. The question is, when he left LA it he seemed to be on the path to redemption. Is he good or evil now? It would seem evil, but things on this gem of a show are rarely what they seem on the surface. Great stuff.

Ah, the Angelmobile just shifted into gear, and the season is totally underway. Sheesh - Lindsey as a big bad? Intriguing, because I'm not sure who he would hate more - Angel or W&H.

Really - if you had asked me to write a list of the Top 20 possible big bads for this season, good'ol Lindsey and his crazy hand wouldn't have been in the same room.

I find myself wondering if Lindsey still has his pickup truck, the one he drove off in. (Fun note - that actually was Christian Kane's truck that he drove to LA from Oklahoma in.)

James Marsters just killed on his speech about choice and actually fighting for a soul. Just insane enough...and right, and it was killing Angel.

Now if someone would explain to me what the bejeesus happened to Harmony's look in this episode...

Ha. "Lindsey" and "right hand." No pun intended?

It's a "sweeps" month... it's all about the promos. Getting folks to watch the show isn't nearly as important as what's inside (in general, and during sweeps in particular).

It took me forever to remember Lindsey's name, much less be sure that I was right in thinking it was him. Thankfully, I don't have to feel like an idiot for leaping up at the TV going "DUDE! DUDE! IT'S...THAT GUY! DUDE!" Of course, remember the cyborgs, perhaps he's a Big Good, or partnered with them. You have to wonder, with Cordy and the link to the Powers gone, who else may have picked up that ball?

I missed the first 15 minutes of Smallville, so I was wondering if there was some reveal about Lex's brother dying and it being his fault. And did Pete even make his token *cough* appearence for random exposition?

"Hey Clark! Your phone is broken, that's why I'm actually showing up here, and to remind people I'm still on this show. C'mon, we have to go...do that thing. Over there."

Smallville: I was especially struck by Lionel's hypocritical comment that he loved his son more than life itself, while he's putting his son into what could be argued is a Fate Worse Than Death to save his own miserable skin by discrediting Lex and his evidence that Lionel killed his own parents. So, did Lex kill his younger brother, or was it Lionel? I don't expect to know the answer to that until the Season Finale at the earliest.

Angel: Lindsey as The Big Bad's "right hand"? *Pained Groan.*

I was cheering as Spike lectured Angel on the difference between how they got their souls back.

I found the end of that scene especially revealing. After Angel has been defeated he makes this big speech about how being the key figure in the Shan Shu is not a prize but a huge burden, but when Spike goes to pick up the cup, Angel is clearly in utter dispair. He's been lying to himself about how much he wants the eventual reward of humanity.

OTOH, Spike seems utterly certain of what he wants and why he wants it.

Final sidenote: I don't have UPN where I live so I've only been able to see Buffy through its reruns on FX and they've just completed running through Season Seven for the first time. After watching that, I found it of great interest that Spike's first thought after become a vampire was to help someone. Angel slaughters his whole family, Spike tries to help his mother. Is this acting out of kindness as unique to Spike as I think it is?

As the season goes on in Smallville, I can't help but think that either Chloe or Lionel (or both) isn't going to survive the season. When Lex gets out, he's going to snap, if he hasn't already.

I do like that we saw Belle Reve. Considering the merry hell they've been playing with the timeline, I could see Dr. Harleen Quinzel visiting from Arkham, or maybe a pre-Scarecrow Jonathan Crane.

I liked Angel a lot. I keep thinking that the Big Bad this season may turn out to be the First, and that this is a big contingency plan that had been set up well in advance. I'm getting concerned that they're going to irrelevent out some of the older cast members since they've had so little to do (I'm mainly thinking Lorne).

One other note - I think Angel is starting to realize he still doesn't feel like he earned his humanity yet, while Spike thinks he did. Angel blames himself for his bad days, while Spike doesn't blame himself. I suspect that the series, whenever it ends, will have Angel finally feeling redeemed.

RE: “Shattered” (Smallville)

WOW. What an episode.

What, he wants Clark to declare war on Iraq?

Only a Drugged Psychotic Would Say This Line: “You’re either with me or against me Clark, choose right now!” -Lex to Clark, in the opening scene of Act 1.

She must mean became pale and did everything backwards

Great Name-Dropping Exchange:

Chloe: “After his brother died, Lex went right back to boarding school. And soon after that, he started exhibiting some…pretty…bizarro behavior.”

Clark: “What do you mean “bizarro”?

CRITIQUE:

If nothing else, the events of last season’s cliffhanger and this season’s first couple of episodes, which may have been criticized for using the reset button, have served to provide some really good character interactions in episodes like this one. Clark trying to keep Lex from finding out that he knows who Morgan Edge is (and the way the drugged Lex reacts when he finds out near the end of the episode), Chloe still trying to keep the truth of her prior brief association with Lionel secret from Clark, and Lionel exploiting Lex’s experiences on the island in the premiere and second episode to have him institutionalized, etc.

It may also appear that the creators are trying to depict Clark and Lana’s relationship as moving out of the “You have to open up to me/I can’t open up to you” spin cycle by having Lana say flat-out that being around Clark is dangerous, which would be a good thing. Putting aside all the members of the Anti-Lana Brigade who no doubt did a dance of joy at the sight of her leg twisted out of place in the closing shot of Act 2, obviously, their friendship can’t just simply end, but I’m gonna be really pissedd if they reset this the next episode by having it be the result of her being doped up while recuperating. I’m also hoping that her healing won’t take only a week. In truth, Lana is right, after all. Clark should not have involved her in Lex’s quite dangerous predicament, just because he had to get Lex food while he was hiding at the barn.

And Lionel’s statement to Lex about how Julian died? Wow. And MAN, was the ending sad. Kudos to the creators for not letting Lex off the hook by allowing him to get back to normal by the end of the episode. I can’t wait to see where this goes from here.

MISCELLANEOUS THOUGHTS:

Going to the Kent farm to hide out was not very smart of Lex. Sure, he’s drugged and paranoid, but you’d think this would make him less likely to trust anyone else, and I’m surprised that he doesn’t have a dozen safehouses stashed away in and around Smallville and Metropolis, and went to one of them. Going to the Kent Farm, rather than the Metropolis equivalent of the Plaza Hotel, was just dumb.

Lex’s shrink says the stained glass window in his corridor was broken when he through a vase through it. But the vase she shows him doesn’t appear to be broken.

In the hospital in Act 3, Chloe says that maybe Lex was drugged, and that the question is how it got into his system. No, Chloe, the question is first whether there are such drugs in his system. You hadn’t established that yet. Luckily, of course, they turn out to be right when Darius confesses.

Speaking of which, why don’t they check Lex’s blood? Is everyone in the hospital on Lionel’s payroll too? Clark and Chloe should’ve taken a sample of Lex’s blood while he was at the barn.

When the kryptonite beads fell apart off of Edge’s rosary as he was beating Clark in Act 3, did the visual of them falling apart remind anyone else of the way the pearls fell apart from Bruce’s mom’s necklace when Joe Chill grabbed it in Batman’s origin?

When knocking Lex out of the way of Morgan’s car in Act 4, Clark should’ve dived out of the car’s way along with Lex, not stopped right there himself. There was no reason to do this except to make a display of his power for Lex, since the natural tendency of this act would’ve been for Clark’s body to have kept on going. Clark had to make a conscious effort to stop, which made no sense.

Smallville: When Lex first started breaking up in the Kent's barn, I had been hoping that the writers were pulling a Hamlet thing; kept us guessing right until the last second whether Lex was really loony or faking it to draw out his enemies. Sadly, in part because of the show's presentation and the admittedly stupid promos, this was traded in for the lesser-compelling question, "Why is Lex crazy?". Oh, and does anyone else think it was odd that Lana's horse seems to hate her as much any of the more rabid fans?

Angel: Great fight. Well, not so much the fight itself, but the dialogue and psychological factors behind it. My only real beef with the episode is the nature of the flashbacks. In the other Angel and Buffy flashbacks I've seen, the scenes sort of stood on their own. In this case, it felt like the writers were saying "Ok, we need Angel and Spike to come off as having a long-established rivalry, so let's throw in a few scenes from their past to prove it". And the Lindsey thing caught me totally off guard. Mostly because it took my little brother who's seen about four episodes of Angel to remind me who the hell Lindsey was.

One thing that really impressed me with Smallville this week was however Clark strayed from his typical behavior more into the realm of Luthor-like behavior. When Lex says "You're with me or against me" and tells Clark to choose, he turns his back on his parents and heads off with Lex. When he confronts Darius, he twists Darius's arm so hard that it's suggested he may break it. When he confronts the sniper, he more or less threatens to strangle the guy if he won't talk.

Say what you may; I liked that. It shows Clark still doesn't know where the lines should be drawn, and it also shows further proof he's not going to limit himself to what's legal if it prevents him from doing what he thinks is right, which makes for a more compelling character. And I think it's good to see all the red K "those-feelings-are-a-part-of-me" behaviors show up without the red K being present--it's a lot harder to believe that if we never ever see them without the rock present.

And about Clark stopping in front of the car instead of running right out of its path with Lex in hand--I had the same thought, and I kind of wondered if one could infer that Clark, on some level, wanted to make sure Morgan Edge wasn't a threat to him (or Lex) anymore. I don't know that was the idea. I don't know if I even like the idea. But it's an interesting speculation, especially since Clark was threatening to hurt a lot of other people in the episode.

Excellent use of music in the end, too. A good song with lyrics that fit the situation, instead of the normal "Clark and Lana have the same discussion again and the music tromps all over it" like they usually do.

SMALLVILLE: While the promos did show too much, I think the surprise ending was Lex finally seeing who Clark is and what he can do. That was the key moment, not the straitjacket scene.

Loved Angel. I thought this season was gonna suck based off of the first four episodes, but the last 4 have been better, with Lineage and Destiny being awesome. I missed Wes this week, but I believe Alexis was on his honeymoon while they were shooting this episode. Lindsay's appearance shocked me. I've been wondering what his game will be since last Weds. Great stuff.

At least the Angel producers were smart enough this time not to put the "surprise appearence" person's name in the credits.

David

I have to give the promo people at Warner Bros. credit, because they actually got me interested enough to sit down and watch an episode of "Smallville."

Understand that I haven't watched Smallville since the first season. I watched the first half of the first season, and was utterly disappointed by all the "Kryptonite villain of the week" plots. But I've been reading these talkbacks, and my curiousity was piqued. So, when I saw the promos for this week's episode, I thought, hell, why not? Nothing else to really watch.

So I watched my first episode of Smallville since the first season.

It was pretty good. Don't get me wrong, with the whole "last five minutes" element, I completely agree with PAD. Why show Lex in a padded cell if that's going to be the big reveal of the "last five minutes"? Well, I guess to get people like me to tune in. :)

I will say that I think the Johnny Cash rendition of "Hurt" was actually fitting to this episode, and I like that they've really made an effort to flesh Lex out. My big complaint about Lex's characterization in the first season (what I saw) was that he seemed too much like a good decent simple character. I saw the complexity of the character in this episode.

As a fan of the older Superman comics, I was surprised to see Morgan Edge. I'm actually kicking myself that I didn't jump on board the show back when Michael McKean appeared as Perry White.

Don't get me wrong...I'm still ambivalent about the show. But I'll be tuning in next week, and I'll keep giving it a chance. I see nice moments of character development, and I'm glad that, for the most part, the "Kryptonite villain of the week" plots have disappeared. Occasionally, I can handle it, though.

So, all I can say is this: it's a better show that I thought it would turn out to be. I didn't like what I saw of the first season (the first 11 episodes or so), but the show seems to have evolved into something more in line with what I'd initially hoped.

I'll be watching in the future.

Someone should bitch slap the WB promo people to Pasadena and back.

Or make it so they bleed out their eyes, as per this week's Angel.

-Dave O'Connell

Smallville:

What was shocking for me wasn't Lex in a straight jacket. The promos pretty much gave that away. What was shocking to me was the fact that Luthor witnesses Clark using super powers and that helped to drive him even crazier.

my big problem with tru calling is the first thing that happens is that the bachelor belives that she's from his finacee trying to get him to call it off.

but in reality the wedding was called off weeks before so it makes no sense for him to think she's with his ex fiancee. plot hole the size of Todd McFarlane's ego.

the premise is interesting but frankly the writing needs a lot of work.

I have to agree with Orlando and others -- Lex witnessing what Clark did, and the whole "I knew it! You're not even human!" outburst knocked the wind out of me more than Lex in the straitjacket or Lana telling Clark he was too dangerous to be around.

Great use of Johnny Cash, though. This was just as effective as when the original by Nine Inch Nails was used on Homicide as several characters were being simultaneously raked over the coals in their personal lives.

Is Pete Ross serving as a personal assistant to Dick Cheney in an undisclosed location?

Wednesday was a big night for insanity on the WB, wasn't it? First Lex Luthor and then most of Wolfram and Hart.

Two people have written that the real shocker was Lex finding out about Clark, and that wasn't in the promos.

But Wednesday afternoon, I heard the radio promos, which did state that Lex would find out about Clark...

So even that element was spoiled.

And they still did that "shocking last five minutes" shtick.

Two questions on SMALLVILLE:

1) Did I miss something, that Lionel feels the need to virtually lobotomize his own son? I thought Lex & Lionel had been getting on better than ever. Perhaps Lex found out something very damaging, and Lionel felt he had to act before Lex could act on it.

2) Does anyone in SMALLVILLE notice the destroyed cars? Even if they thought Lex was insane, that wouldn't explain a car that was smashed right down the center, with nothing hit around it. (And when they had Perry White, the tractor was clearly far more destroyed than it would have been from falling off a truck.) I'd be terrified to drive through Smallville.

The Clark-Lana thing reminds me of Lucy promising Charlie Brown that she won't possibly pull the football away this time. Lana won't stay away, if they get together they'll break up again, and we'll have lots more of Lana looking hopefully at Clark, with Clark aaaaaaaaaalmost telling her his secret. It was overdone a long time ago. They should focus on Clark & Lex.

Speaking of whom, does anyone think Clark will just let Lez stay in the asylum? Clark found out from Chloe that Lex had indeed been drugged, and I can't see him leaving his best friend locked up and experimented upon. As for Lex, he'll attribute what he saw Clark do to the drugs -- but there'll be the lingering suspicion that his best friend is hiding something. (They may toss in another "Clark loses his powers/is weakened by kryptonite, so someone sees him weak & hurt, so they don't think he's powerful" story.)

As far as Spike and his soul goes, did I miss something?

Didn't he go through those trials to get the chip out? So he could get back at Buffy for not admitting that she loved him?

So is this:

a) a goof by the writers?

b) Spike being utterly delusional?

c) Spike deciding that whatever his intentions were, he did earn his soul back?

As far as Spike and his soul goes, did I miss something?

Didn't he go through those trials to get the chip out? So he could get back at Buffy for not admitting that she loved him?

I think this was a bait and switch by the BTVS writers at the end of season 6. They set it up to imply what you thought-- Spike seeking revenge-- but I think Spike is being honest. His statement in the cave was that he wanted to give Buffy "what she deserved." Usually when someone says that it's a threat, but Buffy really deserved someone like Angel who could love her and be a legitimate ally, and Spike became that when he retrieved his soul. Actually, when I saw it the first time I thought that Spike was the one who bit on the bait and switch (i.e. that he went in "to give her what she deserves!" but that the soulgiving entity gave Spike an object lesson in being careful what you wish for), but it makes at least as much sense to take Spike at his word.

Spike went thru the trials to get a soul; the idea it was to get the chip removed was a psyche by the writers/directors to fool viewers as to his intentions.

It's kind of appropriate, considering November 22, to relate what is happening to the Luthor family to what happened to the Kennedys.

Papa Joe Kennedy was involved in some genuine criminal activity. He was known for forcing his sons into various kinds of activities. He messed with their heads considerably. He would occasionally steal their girls from them. And...the one son he had personally groomed to become big in politics was killed before he had a chance, and he had to throw his second choice, Jack, into the job.

I don't have my handy reference book, Gary Wills's "The Kennedy Imprisonment," next to me right now, but I think I remembered that history right.

The parallels seem very creepy.

And Christian Kane's name wasn't even in the ending credits. Which seems odd, since he did speak a line.

I think there was one other significant bit in Angel that no one's mentioned yet. Namely, Eve's comments about Gunn having a closer tie to the Senior Partners than she does, and Gunn's *very* quick decision to go talk to the panther aka the Partners. Forget the evil law school downloaded into his brain; I think Gunn's now the most likely to be turned.

Forget the evil law school downloaded into his brain; I think Gunn's now the most likely to be turned.

I don't think he's much of a threat. Everybody knows Gunns don't kill people...

PAD

I don't know where the links are now, but there are interviews which explicitly state that the plan was spike wanted a soul.

Actually the FAQ for Buffy on Televisionwithoutpity.com sums it up nicely

Oh, really? Why ever would you think that? After all, the writers/producers have clearly said in interviews that he went to get a soul. Oh, you didn't read the interviews? Well, shame on you for not realizing that's now the preferred way for a show to disperse information about plot points, rather than actually utilizing the hour of airtime they have each week. Anyway, if you thought Spike wanted the chip out, basically you fell for their trick. And we must have some dumb recappers, because we all fell for it too.

Exactly how did they pull this "trick" on the audience off? By not informing the actor playing Spike of the character's intentions. James Marsters has confirmed this, saying he played the scene like he wanted the chip out. By keeping the dialogue misleading, and ensuring that the acting choices made supported the "trick," they made sure we thought he intended to get the chip out. Good one! Except not. Because then Joss revealed the misdirection almost immediately after the end of Season Six, rather than waiting until "Beneath You" for us to find out with Buffy. How stupid we were for believing the actor's performance rather than post-season interviews. To us, it seems like they indulged in a classic example of "don't show, tell" that has been a consistent problem for the series recently. If you believe that Joss saying something in an interview makes it canon, there's no problem here. But if you think this is just another sloppy retcon, you're not alone.

personally i don't think it was a retcon i think they always planned that spike went to get his soul, because they so blatantly made it look like he wanted the chip out without ever directly saying he wanted the chip out.

It was badly written misdirection. they were trying to trick the audience, but they made it so hamfisted that even a year later people are still confused as to what spike's intention was.

Am I the only one bothered by Lex's being locked up, especially after Clark spends the whole ep. searching for and getting proof that Lex is being drugged?

Wouldn't Clark intervene to keep Lex from going to the padded room? Maybe they're saving this for another ep, but it still bothered me. Sure, padded-room Lex makes for a dramatic tag, but would that it made a little more narrative sense.

As for "Angel," with the exception of last week's Wesley-centric episode, which I think ranks up there with the best of 'em, and the Halloween one, which was a hoot, this season's been a big disappointment; Spike mostly lacking the wit, pathos, and surprising depth that made him such a delight on "Buffy" (his "look at how annoying I can be" shtick is really getting old... loved the "sex with robots" bit, though), Angel doing almost nothing of interest (perhaps as a result of Boreanaz's knee injury and subsequent surgery?) and looking increasingly bored and bloated.

This week's ep. was an opportunity to address some of these issues, including Angel's growing angst over sitting in the captain's chair at W&H, and his long-standing conflict with Spike, but I thought their interaction and their fight were poorly-written, lacking the deft blend of comedy and drama that highlights the best "Buffy" and "Angel" shows. Angel came off too much a whiny brat and his final plea to Spike not to drink from the cup because of the resulting burden rang hollow.

Ultimately, the show feels kind of lost and aimless this season, a problem that will hopefully be remedied, at least in part, with the burgeoning "big bad" story arc involving Lindsey.

But step one in refocusing the show needs to involve giving Angel more to do than sit around sulking or giving orders. The show's called "Angel" and if the titular character isn't going anywhere narratively or thematically, there's little reason to care about or become involved in the proceedings.

Sure, the overall sense of unease and malaise amongst the Angel crew could be attributed to their assuming command of W&H, but it also feels to me that the writing this season generally isn't up to par (having just this year caught up on seasons one and two via DVD). The show feels off, not nearly as much as Buffy season 7, but enough to have me worried that creative fatigue has set in.

Hoping things pick up.

"Smallville," conversely, keeps getting better (Pete's increasing absence and the occasional "freak of the week" eps notwithstanding), and has me wishing they'd keep the show going and eventually take it into "Superman" territory (rather than making a "Supe" movie with different actors, and Richard Donner, who's now apparently attached to direct) with Clark moving to Metropolis and becoming the Man of Steel.

We've become invested in these characters and actors, and Warner has a great opportunity to develop the property long form.

Anyway, thanks for listening,

Stas Tagios

I can't believe nobody else commented on this yet:

So Rutger Hauer is no longer going to play Morgan Edge?! What, they thought that new actor would be better for the role?

"Sorry, Rutger. We just don't like where you're going with the character. We decided to let you go and hire this nobody actor that nobody's ever heard of before to take over. Ok? Thanks."

But seriously...why keep Morgan on the show unless you're going to have Rutger Hauer play him? I don't get it.

Ah, I see.

"Spike getting his soul back" is similar to "Is Giles the First?"

"Spike getting his soul back" is similar to "Is Giles the First?"

Pretty much dead-on, it was Mutant Enemy's way of fooling the Internet Spoiler Gang with misinformation to keep them from guessing the real plans... that they didn't provide a logical reason for the fake-out makes it horrible writing.

I can't see the Spike bit being a ret-con (as some have suggested), because ME has been saying the current line since shortly after the Season Six finale aired. It would have made much more sense with Spike being tricked (plus, it would have been funnier, as Spike often got blind-sided by humiliating situations), but after a season and a half of telling us that he chose his soul, it's a bit late in the game to start saying "I was lying about the choosing thing." Spike may not be the most honest of characters, but his deceptions usually fall apart inside of four episodes.

James Lynch asked:

Did I miss something, that Lionel feels the need to virtually lobotomize his own son? I thought Lex & Lionel had been getting on better than ever. Perhaps Lex found out something very damaging, and Lionel felt he had to act before Lex could act on it.

Yes, you missed something. Lex discovered that Lionel plotted with Morgan Edge to blow up a tenement, killing his parents and collecting on the insurance. This was the start of the Luthor fortune, the roots of which Lex had been lied to about for his entire life. Lex was justifiably angry and wanted justice; Lionel is trying to protect himself and keep himself out of jail.

So Rutger Hauer is no longer going to play Morgan Edge?! What, they thought that new actor would be better for the role? "Sorry, Rutger. We just don't like where you're going with the character. We decided to let you go and hire this nobody actor that nobody's ever heard of before to take over. Ok? Thanks."

I was kind of surprised by that myself, and clean forgot to mention it. It's possible that Hauer had a scheduling commitment. Or it's possible there were some personal difficulties with him and they decided to recast. Although I would hardly call Patrick Bergin--an actor whose work I've been paying attention to since his turn as "Robin Hood"--a nobody actor that no one has ever heard of.

And now Edge is apparently dead...again. Perhaps they can have a running gag where Edge appears to die only to be brought back with a new face every time. He'd be like the Doctor Who of villainy. Personally, I'd go with Jeffrey Combs next time around.

PAD

I can remember a time just befor season 6 when people were speculating where the new season of buffy was going to go. Someone in an interveiw said that there wasn't going to be a big bad for season 6, but if you had to pick one it would be Buffy herself. They also stated that Spike was going to be the big bad of season 7.

Did ME change it's mind, or was it all missderestion? I can t guess, butt It would have been better than the First crap.

Small "Angel" comment. Spike mentioned he saved the world. Angel says only once I've saved lots of times. Never once did Angel willing give his life to save as Spike did. Hmmmmm Who really has earned redemption?

Spike did volunteer his life to close a Hellmouth and save the world. That is a noble act, and I don't think anyone can deny that Spike is a "Champion" now. However, I don't think Angel is any less of a hero just because he didn't croak during any number of times he saved the world.

Spike wore an amulet that burned him up and saved the day. Angel's helped destroy the Hellmouth monster, led Sunndale High against the Mayor's vampires, prevented a physicist from ending the world, and stopped Jasmine from destroying free will in all humans. He's given up a chance to be invincible, the chance to be human and live happily ever after with Buffy, and even his soul all to fight the good fight and better humanity in one way or another. And lets not forget that while Spike was willing to sacrifice himself for the world, Angel was willing to sacrifice himself just to give somebody like Darla a second chance at life.

Spike is a hero, but Angel has earned redemption on far more occasions. The idea that Spike may be rewarded with humanity for being in the right place at the right time while Angel might possibly be denied is not an idea I'm particularly comfortable with, and I hope it's just a bait and switch at this point in the season.

[I tried to post this right after my "Round-Up, Volume I" comment, but between phone calls and technical difficulties, was interrupted three times... let's see if I can still remember it]

Smallville - as a recent viewer, I thought it was a pretty good episode. Clark knows that Lex has been drugged; hopefully, after he works through his guilt over Lana, he'll help get him out (he has proof now, unless he was really dumb). And I'm hoping the Pete Ross actor has a movie project or something. From what I've seen - most of this season, as the lead-in to Angel - his character seems to be used even less than Lorne usually is on Angel.

Speaking of (the show, not The Host) - great episode! At one point I thought "This may be the best episode of Angel ever." Maybe a bit extreme, but I do think it ranks up there. For all the talk about the Smallville promos ruining things (I'm most familiar with the TV Guide ad, which showed ... Lex in a straightjacket) - the Angel preview gave away almost nothing! We got to see the first meeting of Spike and Angelus; and Drusilla is always a welcome presence. But, despite the impression the preview gave - that wasn't really what this episode was about. Spike's corporeal again - before the opening credits sequence even rolls! And he's quite ready to talk about what happened to his mother now, isn't he? And Harmony's "That explains a lot!" - ha! The fight between the two ensouled vampires was amazing - like, X(Men)2 amazing - and Spike's words cut deeper than the wood driven into Angel's shoulder. And, just when Eve had me convinced she might be innocent .... Lindsey! PAD is exactly right in describing this surprise. Bet Lindsey personally wrote the "prophesy" about "the fat lady stop(ping) singing" and the Cup of Perpetual Despair (might be how some people would describe Angel himself) ... filled with Mountain Dew (!). An excellent episode; well done by Fury & DeKnight and all.

Okay, and about Spike - it would have been bad writing if Spike had gone to get his chip out, IMHO, totally contrary to the development of the character. I never seriously considered that a possibility, despite the attempts at creating some sort of question about it. (For what it's worth, I went into more detail about this in the 10/23 Round-Up, 94th comment of 102.)

Are you guys sure that was Lindsay? It looked nothing like the Lindsay I remember. First off, he had two hands. Second, he was a lot more buff. I've heard other people say that it was Lindsay, but either it was very poorly shot or you're wrong.

I don't understand why so many viewers dislike the current season of Angel. I guess people just have a problem with change. I think this new format was a brilliant move. The chemistry alone between the Angel and Spike characters is enough to sustain this show. Last year's season long arc was exhausting and rarely enjoyable. I'm glad Charisma Carpenter was (temporarily) written off the show. The "romance" between Angel and Cordelia was completely laughable because the writers and actors never really convinced us that the brother/sister love that existed between these two characters instantly turned into a sexual attraction. And, that whole Jasmine arc? What the *** was that? I think it was just a way for Joss Whedon to give his beloved Firefly cast some work. (He made the same mistake by making Nathan Fillion the last-minute "Big-Bad" on Buffy.) Last year's absolutely brilliant season finale (5x22 Home) by Tim Minear (my absolute favorite episode of the series) not only saved that season, but set us up for a new beginning. Embrace the change...it's what life is all about.

PAD posted:

I was kind of surprised by that myself, and clean forgot to mention it. It's possible that Hauer had a scheduling commitment. Or it's possible there were some personal difficulties with him and they decided to recast. Although I would hardly call Patrick Bergin--an actor whose work I've been paying attention to since his turn as "Robin Hood"--a nobody actor that no one has ever heard of.

My understanding is that Hauer had signed for multiple episodes, but then a scheduling problem cropped up. Hauer and Bergin are repped by the same management company, which suggested Bergin as a replacement.

I spent most of the ep wondering if the Bergin Edge was part of Lex's delusions. Technically, I suppose he still could be -- we never saw Clark react to the different appearance -- or he could have also been an actor. There's nothing to say that Bergin's Edge was the REAL Edge, and thus, nothing to stop Hauer from returning in the role.

Or they could just get Tom Baker, and then Peter Davison, et al...

Interestingly, Morgan Edge also turned up on this weekend's JUSTICE LEAGUE, and also was apparently killed...

With Morgan Edge dying all the time, who's going to run Intergang? I suppose Bruno Manheim could do it. (I know, I know, probably no Intergang in Smallville or Justice League).

One thing keeps bothering me about the current season of Angel. This constant referring to Spike as a "champion". There's no doubt that Spike is a hero now, but that doesn't make him a champion. To me a champion refers to a specific type of hero. I see Spike as being closer to the "anti-hero" or "rogue hero" type. He's better off in a category with guys like Wolverine and Guy Gardener than with guys like Superman and Angel who I'd consider champions.

Julio Diaz informed me:

"Yes, you missed something. Lex discovered that Lionel plotted with Morgan Edge to blow up a tenement, killing his parents and collecting on the insurance. This was the start of the Luthor fortune, the roots of which Lex had been lied to about for his entire life. Lex was justifiably angry and wanted justice; Lionel is trying to protect himself and keep himself out of jail."

Wow. With that in mind, unless Lionel can put all the blame on Morgan Chase, I'd say Lex is going to take revenge on his father. Perhaps it's that dual betrayal -- learning how the family fortune began, and that his father would sacrifice his own son for self-preservation -- that will make Lex a villain, rather than anything Clark does. (Though it's worth noting that Lex's reaction to seeing Clark in action was totally negative, suggesting that Lex would instinctively hate any super-powered being.)

I've really been enjoying the current season of ANGEL. The relocation from small-time detective agency to bigtime corporate evil law firm has opened a new world of possibilities for the Fang Gang...And of course, Spike's return into his adversary/grandsire's stronghold has added extra sizzle. Spike is always the joker in the deck, and is a fascinating character. With the exception of the rather formulaic "UNLEASHED", the episodes have so far ranged from engrossing (CONVICTION and THE CAUTIONARY TALE OF NUMERO CINCO) to outstanding (HELLBOUND, LINEAGE, and DESTINY).

I don't believe for a moment that Spike has won the right to Shanshu instead of Angel. No one ever said that the vampire who wanted it the most would earn the "real boy" Shanshu privilege. I also believe that both souled vamps will eventually find that they have already drunk from the Cup of Perpetual Torment, metaphorically speaking. Spike's defeat of Angel cleared the air between them and released a good deal of mutual tension, but I don't know that it settled anything in terms of the Shanshu.

Angel has gone through the emotional wringer in the past year; he is trying to regain the fire, the passion necessary to sustain his heroism. Spike has only recently begun his journey into heroism; he is fire and passion incarnate. Angel could use Spike's fire, Spike could use Angel's temperence and control. They could make a great team if they could stop snarking at each other; but the snarking makes for very funny moments.

Anyway, I love ANGEL, am thrilled that Lindsey has apparently returned, and hope we'll see spotlights on Fred and Gunn at some point.

As for SMALLVILLE, I watch it occasionally to see what the Luthors are up to. Lionel and Lex really chew up the scenery; they are outstanding characters. I keep wishing that Lex wouldn't have to grow up and become Evil Lex Luthor/Superman's nemesis, but it's becoming obvious that being Lionel's son doomed Lex long before he even met Clark.

Tom Keller - Yes. It was Lindsey (Lindsey, not Lindsay, just FYI).

If you can remember the last ep we saw him in (called "Dead End" in Season 2), it was the episode where he got his hand back. It stayed attached and he left for parts unknown - where he presumably worked out a lot and got tattoos. Probably in preparation for screwing over Angel and W&H, considering the same tattoo designs were on his doorway.

While I'll agree with you on the lighting issue, it was most certainly a tatooed Lindsey McDonald. Poorly shot, but him. And his voice was also a bit of a giveaway.

SMALLVILLE:

I'm not sure how I feel about the revelation regarding Lionel Luthor. I sort of preferred to think of him as merely a ruthless businessman and (of course) a really bad father. Now that he's clearly evil (a murderer), the show almost becomes less satisfying because Clark can't put away this Big Bad. It also makes Lex's "fall" sort of a given rather than an unexpected byproduct -- I sort of envisioned Lex becoming a force for evil so great that it shocked even his cruel father.

Who's gonna run Intergang with Morgan Edge dead? Why not Peter Boyle or Bruce Campbell, who played the father and son team who ran the "Lois and Clark" version of Intergang?

SMALLVILLE:

It also bugged me that Edge went to so much trouble to escape Lionel Luthor and wound up revealing himself to him within that episode. I'd had preferred that the plastic surgery was a result of a disfiguring accident or something along those lines if they weren't even going to pretend to have him "underground" for a while.

There's no doubt that was Lindsey. The actor, the voice, it was him. Given the designs all over himself and the apartment, I'd be willing to bet they are some version of anti-scrying spells so that the Senior Partners don't realize he's back in the game.

I agree with Angel for what it's worth. Spike fought to get his soul back because he wanted in Buffy's pants. I still haven't seen any remorse for what he did as a vampire, nor have I seen him want to try and be a hero.

I wasn't reading anything on the internet back when Spike fought to regain his soul. And Spike never said anything concrete about what he was trying to get. While it was kind of implied that he might be trying to get the chip out, it was never stated. We were hypothesizing from day one that he might have been going after a soul. And it didn't take long into the next season to find that to be true. I think they showed plenty of evidence that Spike went after his soul.

I didn't even recognize Lindsay when Eve got into bed with him. My wife asked me who he was and I said "I guess he's the new Big Bad this season."

"Yeah, but who is he?"

"I have no idea."

I don't know if it was the long hair, the extra muscles, the tatoos or the fact that I was extremely tired but I was completely clueless until people mentioned his name on message boards.

Josh Wilhoyte, you're thoughts on the purpsose of all those symbols on the walls and on Lindsey match mine. I wouldn't have considered that if they hadn't been plastered all over the walls, but their presence there indicates the Lindsey is trying to protect himself from something.

No remorse for what he did as a vampire? Didn't we see cuts on his chest in the first episode of Season Seven and hear him say that he "tried to cut it out"? He certainly was having some real problems. I also recall him mentioning that the things that he'd done bothered him, but overall he did seem to get over it after "three weeks moping in the basement."

ANGEL -- Great flashbacks. Cool knock down drag out between Spike and Angel. Clever Mountain Dew product placement. Spike listens to Dead Kennedys (sweet!). Looking forward to seeing how Lindsey factors in to what's been going on.

SMALLVILLE -- I'm REALLY getting tired of the pop music soundtrack thing. Buying radio-friendly music and plugging it into your show is lazy lazy lazy... Please employ TV music composers again so they can stop begging for money on the freeway offramps and earn a real wage!

Using Johnny Cash's version of 'Hurt' during Lex's sanitarium scene took me right out of any involvement I was having with the story (which wasn't much to begin with). Outside of the powerful video that Cash himself produced for that track, you'd have to pretty much show news footage of coffins coming home from Iraq to match that level of intensity. Contrived Smallville drama does not earn the right to utilize Cash's 'Hurt'. Someone from Cash's end or Smallville's should be swiftly fired.

TRU CALLING -- I keep forgetting to set my VCR timer for this show. Not a good sign.

ENTERPRISE -- Why is it that Star Trek spin-offs don't start getting good until their third season? Three well-written well-acted episodes in a row. Let's see how long they can keep this up!

I agree with Doug Hancock. I likewise had no idea that was Lindsey. But who played Sirk? He looked awfully familiar, but his name wasn't in the credits, either.

Didn't Eve express disappointment that Spike didn't kill Angel? Why not put holy water into the cup, instead of a soft drink, then?

And weren't Angel and Darla right there when Drusilla "turned" Spike? Why was Angel surprised?

ANGEL: The Angel/Spike fight reminded me of Hulk #350. I love seeing the underdog win. I almost wanted to hear Spike say, "You could take me, Liam!"

And even if Spike fought for his soul in order to get "into Buffy's pants," that still makes him better than Angelus who fought to *not* recover his soul and who was incapable of loving Buffy in any capacity (Spike was at least capable of somewhat selfless acts because of love -- Angel was only driven to destroy Buffy because of how she had made him feel when ensouled).

I found it of great interest that Spike's first thought after become a vampire was to help someone. Angel slaughters his whole family, Spike tries to help his mother. Is this acting out of kindness as unique to Spike as I think it is?

1. William the Bloody Awful Poet tried to heal -- and by "heal" in this context, we of course mean "turned her into a soulless bloodsucking demon" -- his mother because he was a mother's boy who couldn't bear the thought of eternal life without his mother.

2. About fifteen minutes after this act of "kindness" he staked her right dead through the heart.

It's interesting to wonder what would have happened if Angelus (without a soul) had a chip implanted in his brain to stop him from hurting people. I think Angelus would have found other ways to hurt Buffy (maybe psychologically). He would never have become "housetrained" like Spike was in season 5. Angelus seemed to be completely incapable of any affection.

Spike, on the other hand, was able to develop genuine affections for Buffy, and was even capable of compassion, even when he was still "evil."

I think Spike's love for Buffy is much more real than even the love between Angel(souled) and Buffy because it transcended the boundaries between good and evil. When Angel lost his soul, he also lost his love for Buffy. Spike fell in love with Buffy even without a soul.

My thoughts on Smallville and Tru Calling (great show BTW!)

Smallville

-Hmm...Patrick Bergin replacing Rutger Hauer as Morgan Edge...think I like Rutger better but then again he couldn't play the role again because of scheduling sooooo..it was neat that they made Edge get a makeover or whatever

-There were some parts that I really could not help but laugh...I don't know (one of them being when Lex, Clark, Lex's bodyguard, and Lex's psychiatrist are at the mansion and Lex is delusional...or is he...thinking everyone is against him and so he blames Clark for calling his doctor and Clark's like "Why would I call her I have no idea who she is." )Heh...I don't know why I find it funny I just do.

-Now that subplot so to speak about Lex killing his baby brother Julian has really gotten me curious...like "what exactly DID happen?"

-Yea I agree with some others that Clark when shoving Lex outta the way of Edge's car, he should've went with him NOT guard himself against the car. But then maybe it happened all at once and it was probably instinct to Clark to shield himself?

-I must say this episode seems to have set up this season EVEN more..hopefully there'll be more subplots following this episode and the writers won't just leave it hanging...there's a LOT of issues to be explored.

-I must say I like the way they utilize some songs with certain scenes and there are other times I don't if it doesn't fit well with the scene(felt like saying that in reference to Tro's post)

Tru Calling

-5 males calling out to Tru to help them solve their murder...FREAKY!

-Just trying to guess and eliminate who would want to poison whom (heh and saw that one of the males was played by Matthew Bomer...who has been heavily pursued to play Superman on the big screen)

was interesting

-I am definitely looking forward to more episodes of it....kick myself for missing the pilot :(

Angel sidenote.

Just a quick comment about Spike's chip, recall that after Buffy was brought back to life Spike could hurt her. He didn't need to get rid of the chip to hurt her anymore. In fact it was Buffy who took it out in Season Seven when it started to malfunction.

By the way, loving this season of Angel, despite it's slow start to the season. And that was definately Lindsey...can't wait to see more!

Spike staking his mom...

... to be fair, it was kill or be killed. He wouldn't have been much of a character if he'd let himself be killed, right?

If she hadn't turned on him, he wouldn't have killed her, I believe.

Excellent use of music in the end, too. A good song with lyrics that fit the situation,

Posted by Varjak @ 11/22/2003 02:31 PM ET

A more appropriate choice might have been Matchbox 20's "I'm Not Crazy" ^_^

>>SMALLVILLE -- I'm REALLY getting tired of the pop music soundtrack thing. Buying radio-friendly music and plugging it into your show is lazy lazy lazy... Please employ TV music composers again so they can stop begging for money on the freeway offramps and earn a real wage!<<

I'm sure Mark Snow, who scores every episode of Smallville and does a great job, has no need to visit the freeway offramp...

Originally posted by Raymond:

Why not put holy water into the cup, instead of a soft drink, then?

Have you ever had Mountain Dew? That sh*t is the Cup of Eternal Torment.

Cue my Vague Prediction For Season Five:

I know nothing of any particulars, and I'm not reading spoilers this season, but given that Eve and Lindsey seemed pretty happy to put one over on the Senior Partners, I'm betting that they want to eventually replace the Partners with themselves, and have maneuvered Angel Investigations into W&H to help them do it.

Don't ask me how; I haven't thought that far ahead yet. Give me another couple of episodes...

...please. Soon.

Great ANGEL episode last Wednesday, with terrific acting by JM and DB. It will be a long wait until January for ep 9.

As far as Spike and his soul goes, did I miss something?

Yes, you probably missed Season 6's "Beneath You," when Buffy asks Spike why he got a soul, and he replies: "To be the kind of man who would never... to be a kind of man." That part of the episode was written by Joss Whedon (the rest was written by Doug Petrie) so I think we can take it as canon regarding Spike's wanting a soul and his motivation for seeking it.

After getting the soul he never approached Buffy physically -- in fact, he offered to leave town, and their end-of-season cuddling was always initiated by Buffy herself -- so the "get in Buffy's pants" thing was, I think, the writers' nod to arguments that get tossed around in the Spike/anti-Spike fan wars. FWIW, Joss called the relationship between post-soul Spike and Buffy a "mature and beautiful romance."

Re why Spike tried to help his mother as soon as he was turned, while Angelus' first act as a vampire was to slaughter his entire family

Joss Whedon answered this (at the San Diego ComicCon, I think) by saying that Spike was a different vampire than Angelus because William was more evolved as a human than Liam. David Fury said that Spike was an anomaly among vampires because he always retained a bit of his human soul.

Nobody's mentioned the quasi-resemblance between the tattoed Lindsey to Peter David's Captain Marvel villain Karl Coven... (hey, I'm not trying to bring up the whole Peter David ripping off Joss Whedon idea, if anything- this is Joss ripping off Peter David heh)

*point brought up tongue in cheek*

eddie