PeterDavid.net

I dug it. Loved that turning point at the end with Lee noticing Dr. Juris free of the beast...Can't wait to find out more about what that means. Bete Noir is certainly becoming a (more) fascinating place...

Was the pope and bear and woods post earlier an omage to Steve Martin's Wild and Crazy Guy LP? he has a similar joke. Fallen Angel was good.

I finally sat down to read 1 through 5 a few days ago, only to find 4 & 5 were part of an arc. Picked up #6 today, hooray! Unfortunately, I found the ending a little dull because I couldn't figure out exactly what Lee had discovered that made her smile and launch her attack (though I cheered for her). Despite the fan's note above, I couldn't see that Dr. Juris was free of anything :(. As I'm not a stupid person and I looked over each of the last ten pages or so carefully, I've come to the conclusion that the art failed to convey to me what was going on since the characters don't speak much (or at least enough for me). I think this book deserves better than just adequate art; see, for example, Fables, which has some of the same fantastic elements found in Fallen Angel.

Debby, Dr. Juris was looking out his windows as Lee was fighting the beast. She sees him looking at him while the beast says, "No one is exempt. No one has that sort of power. No One. Do you see clearly now. 'Lee'?" If you look at Juris you'll notice he is the only person, besides Lee at the time, that doesn't have a beast-like aura around him.

What it was that gave Lee the courage and strength to then take on the beast is really an unanswerd question in my mind.

I find the page that has Lee kneeling over the man with the beast aura very interesting. Here we see a female aura around Lee and it looks like that aura is kissing the beast aura.

Anyways, I felt that this was a great issue. I'd have to say it was my favorite so far. The mystery of who Lee is deepens and now I find myself really begining to wonder more about Dr. Juris then ever before.

Great job Peter!

The ending of the arc was a letdown for me. Up until now, the action has seemed to flow from the characters, their situations, and their interactions with one another. The action this time felt more like things were happening a certain way simply because that's the way Peter had written it. In other words, this whole issue felt a bit forced.

Maybe it's me. I'm still not sure what the Beast was trying to accomplish. Steal people's souls? Make them become envoured by their inner evil? I realize ambigiouity can be a plus for some. It engages readers' minds and makes for interesting discussion fodder on message boards. Still, this script felt dangerously close to simply being strange for its own sake.

Just my opinion.

Was the pope and bear and woods post earlier an omage to Steve Martin's Wild and Crazy Guy LP? he has a similar joke. Fallen Angel was good.

I've never listened to a Steve Martin album. He's such a visual comic, it seemed pointless. So the answer would be no. Glad you liked the comic, though.

PAD

You should try Wild and Crazy, it works (mostly) in pure audio. Good times.

You may mean the Eddie Murphy joke about the bear and the rabbit shitting in the woods or something like that from his old standup? I have that classic Steve Martin LP and dont recall any pope/woods jokes?

I'm a month behind -- I get most of my comics in a monthly mail order, and the box with # 5 just arrived, so I won't get to read # 6 until early January.

But as for # 5: Wow!

After reading "Many Happy Returns", the novelization of the "Spider-Man" movie, "Q-Squared", "Future Imperfect", "Hulk: The End", "The Last Avengers Story", "Spider-Man 2099" and now "Fallen Angel", I am left with one conclusion.

Mr. David, you are quite simply the most skilled, talented and intelligent writer whose work I've had the sheer pleasure of reading. Props, kudos and much appreciation. :)

It was a good comic.

I had it with some fava beans and a nice Chiante.

Oh wait. We were supposed to read it?

I liked the conclusion even if it was a bit ambiguous,

but I had a thought occur to me for the first time about the series. (I’m a bit slow sometimes:)

Because Fallen Angel is creator-owned, is that the real reason why PAD can’t/won’t say if “Lee” is really “Linda Danvers”?

Linda Danvers and every character PAD created in Super-girl are owned by DC right? “Lee” is owned by PAD and therefore if DC wanted to, they could come out and state that “Lee” is not “Linda Danvers” because DC Comics owns the character “Linda Danvers”.

I had thought that PAD was not revealing if “Lee” is “Linda” because he had a story-telling plan set to go wherein he would want to convince us of “Lee” being “Linda” and then once he knew he had us completely convinced, throw us a curve by giving us strong reasons to believe they might not be the same person.

Now, I’m starting to think there will be no big reveal because, due to ownership, “Lee” can’t be “Linda” and that feels kind of disappointing to me. Why bother to build the series around the whole “is she really Linda” question if it can’t ever be answered?

I'll be blunt. I don't get it. Oh, I understand that the beast tempted Lee, and that she stood the test. but what was up with the demon-souls? Is this a city of the damned? The doomed? The damnable? I find myself a bit confused.

I liked what I did get, which is to say that the rest of the cast continues to impress, Asia and Slate especially. And I like the art. But I am left grappling with the story itself.

It seemed to much of the Supergirl #3 (I think) with the heroine about to give in, sees someone else not under the influence and then does the quick/heroic thing and easily defeats a villian she was having great problems with and was turning evil. A slightly different level but it felt very much like a repeat.

You know, I haven't touched a Fallen Angel comic since the first one came out. I just wasn't into it.

I may give it another shot just to see if I should change my mind.

I'll let you know.

A few points:

1) For those of you who are still reading FALLEN ANGEL primarily to figure out what, if any, connection it has to SUPERGIRL, please.....stop. (No, don't stop reading FA, just start reading it on its own terms, and stop setting yourselves up for things that won't/can't happen for various reasons.) PAD's no marketing fool--he's been consistenly coy about any SUPERGIRL/FA connections, with the gist of his remarks boiling down to A) He ain't sayin'; B) any such connections would be thematic; and C) he ain't sayin. I'm nattering on about this because of conversation I had in the comics shop today with fellow fans who were dropping FA because they felt "tired of waiting for the Supergirl stuff to be explained".

ARRRRGGHHH!!!

PAD, you probably knew this going in, but I'm just groking to it now: you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't on this. Ah, moving on...

2) Not my favorite issue of the series thus far. The art seemed perfectly clear to me, as pages 15 and 16 make no bones about what's happening: The Beast is showing Lee that everyone in town is corrupted by something that draws them to Him and boasting about how no one is immue; Lee sees that Juris doesn't have the auro of corruption; Lee kicks ass as result--though we don't know exactly why that particular revelation would have moved her to do so. Perhaps it's poor ad placement (right between pages 15 and 16) that causes confusion in some readers, I dunno.

I liked the bits with Asia, again, and was relieved to see that he's playing games with the pidgin English, and Dolf continues to intrigue me. Part of what didn't work for me in this section of the story is Lee's relative passivity, but I recognize it was necessary for this time out.

And another thing...

Steve Martin may have started as a great visual comic (and he still is in many respects), what with King Tut costumes, white suits, arrows-through-the head, and Keatonesque movements, but he's long since become one of the best wordsmiths around. I highly recommend any of his written works, PAD--his _New Yorker_ pieces over the years, in particular, are great studies in the economy of comic style.

It bothers me that we really aren't sure why the fact that Dr. Juris, apparently without this Demon Inside, would motivate Lee suddenly to defeat this creature.

I'm patient, I'm sure Peter has an explination next issue or something, but I felt at a loss when it wasn't explained here. It just wrapped up so quickly!

Plus, exactly how she defeated him, is not clear. A... burst of light? I need to re-read this arc, maybe there's a lot more clues then have already been found.

Why bother to build the series around the whole “is she really Linda” question if it can’t ever be answered?

I think that's a monumental undersell of the series, and a pretty short-sighted one at that.

While the "Is She Linda?" question is an interesting one (perhaps more so because of the ownership issues surrounding it), I see it as a minor footnote in the series. What this series is about, to me, is someone of dubious motives helping those she sees in need, in a city that has a rich criminal and supernatural background. Seeing what unfolds from there and with the interesting (dare I say "quirky?") supporting cast is what keeps me reading.

I fear I am on the side of the "ehhh" crowd on this one. The end did feel 'rushed' and not terribly clear.

Although a case can be made, I think, for the thing being so keen on her joining him because he KNEW how powerful she was and that, just maybe, she could be a threat. Only Mr. David and the critter know for sure. That, and renewed hope in seeing Juras free of the thing, explain why she beat him. How is still a problem.

As is the faact that we may well see it again at some point, especially if its 'aura' is in [almost] everybody, how can we be sure it's really dead?

I did beat my head on a wall for a bit (I have odd hobbies) while reading this issue. The bar's name hadn't meant anything to me. A little unusual, but not, I guessed, out of place in Bête Noir. Then, for some reason, I found myself actually PRONOUNCING it at some point while reading the story and ... ka-ching. OK, nice one.

Hey, I'd be glad if the whole Linda/Lee thing had never been set up (or brought up) at all with the Fallen Angel series, but a minor footnote?

C'mon! It has been brought up in every single issue so far and hasn't been allowed to to rest yet. That's hardly a footnote.

"Hey, I'd be glad if the whole Linda/Lee thing had never been set up (or brought up) at all with the Fallen Angel series, but a minor footnote?

C'mon! It has been brought up in every single issue..."

NOT in the series. Through inference by insistant fanboys who just can't let go, and the fact that the author won't absolutely confirm or deny it.

But within the series itself? It's still "no".

KET

**"Hey, I'd be glad if the whole Linda/Lee thing had never been set up (or brought up) at all with the Fallen Angel series, but a minor footnote?

C'mon! It has been brought up in every single issue..."**

I'm with KET on this one. The “is she/isn't she” is more of a background kind of issue to the series. Sure PAD seems to be playing with it, but he has a penchant for messing with a misdirection, and I personally love it.

I guess we're just going to end up loosing the people who a)want it to be an in-continuity, "I was once Supergirl" experience and b)aren't willing to see how the series develops (going *back* to Supergirl, the build there really didn't get going until issue 9).

Unfortunately, getting the book into the hands of people who don't fall into those two categories will be struggle, which I blithely blame on the current state of the market.

Read it, it's good. If you're already reading, keep reading.

When Lee was kneeling over the beast guy, it looked to me like her aura was having sex with the beast aura. When they came, that resulted in the beast guy exploding because (1) the beast guy's orgasms are blow people up (or, alternatively, the beast cums when he blows people up), and (2)Lee's aura is more powerful than Beast Guy's, so he's the one who blew up. So I think it resulted from Lee's power rather than her lack of corruption. The story could have been more clear about this, though.

I think that the otherwise excellent art could have been more clear on this. It was not that clear to me that the beast guy blew up, and that it was his disembodied head was talking to Lee. That's because the background was so dark that I could not tell whether the head was connected to a body or not.

On the whole, though, I liked the story very much. It's my current favorite title.

I should proofread stuff before I post it...

It was not that clear to me that the beast guy blew up, and that it was his disembodied head was talking to Lee. That's because the background was so dark that I could not tell whether the head was connected to a body or not.

Um, I thought that was the point. It was supposed to be dark so that we wouldn't know what had actually happened until PAD wanted us to.

It's another episode of Mr. D seeking a way to do dark, noirish atmosphere. I can't say this is my favorite book, but I think he got closer here than with anything else.

A good part of film noir is tied to the old equasion "sex equals death." The femme fatale was destroying men long before AIDS, long before boiled rabbits and icepicks in the back at the point of orgasm. Love has little to do with it - except that certain emotions can be easily mistaken for love.

It's an interesting switch to have the male being the source of "sex equals death." Or perhaps it's more than sex - it might be simply desire. Desire for the pleasure of sex, of drugs, of sadistic dominance, of forgetfulness, or even the oblivion of death. Bete Noir seems to be the Dark City in comic book form, with all those urges made more obvious. (For more, read the book "Dark City: The Lost World of Film Noir.")

And to anyone who hasn't tuned out on my words by now, it's obvious that "Lee" isn't Supergirl. I think she's Barbara Stanwyck in "The Strange Love of Martha Ivers."

"Brought up by insistent fanboys" my ass! Go back and read the last issue letter column of Supergirl directing those readers to Fallen Angel.

I'm not going to run down every single "hint" given in the Fallen Angel series through the story I might add, but it sure seems like PAD wants us to wonder about the Lee/Linda connection and only the most obtuse of readers wouldn't see this.

Now it sounds like fanboys desperately trying to convince readers to stay with the book despite the fact that it's tease of a question will never be answered. I'm not interested in another unknowable Character-Origin, like Wolverine was for so long. It was only around the Weapon X time when it looked like answers may finally be revealed that I became interested in Wolverine. Ditto For Fallen Angel.

PAD, and DC, have always stressed that there may be thematic links between SUPERGIRL (the book) and FALLEN ANGEL (the book). PAD, and DC have also been canny enough to resist discouraging speculation about more literal links. But it's fundamentally misguided to claim that PAD, or DC, have been dropping lots of hints that there will, in fact, be a literal link or links between the characters.

Of course, this is tricky business, as many (by not means all) comic readers aren't that interested in themes. :-)

Let's put it this way: are there links between FA and SUPERGIRL? Sure, but they're not (so far) like the links between "Chinatown" and "The Two Jakes"; rather, they're like the links between, oh, "Blue Velvet" and "Twin Peaks".

I think the worst things that could happen to FA (and Lee) would be to link her literally to Supergirl/Linda and to reveal too much too soon. Wolverine ceased being an interesting character the moment "Weapon X"'s too frequent sequels and revisions began unraveling, reraveling, and tearing apart his past. Less is almost always more, and I'm content to have Lee be more inscrutable than not in terms of details for a long, long time.

I've just read 1-6. I'm left a bit unsure as well.

I don't mind not knowing everything after the first major arc; the only things what bother me is that I'm not 100% sure I'm actually interested enough to want to, and that the story seems a bit too strained. I understand the basic concepts (I think), I got the characters (I think), but it's like they're all working really hard for me to be interested, and seem to all try to fit themselves into boxes; they're saying "I'm the tortured and scarred protagonist, and there's more to me than meets the eye"; "I'm the cool old man who likes her, but there's more to me that meets the eye (well, we sort of know what that is, huh.)", "I'm the city itself and there's something incredibly interesting about me (although with Dolf's presence, we sorta kinda get what Bete Noir is there for)", etc. Mostly, everyone is oh-so-very elaborately layered, but not exactly REAL to me most of the time. Like very self-aware actors in a well written play.

ON THE OTHER hand, though, the characters do have some genuinely great moments, when they're not acting; Lee, when she's not trying to show how tough she is ("I don't care". "What truck"), can absolutely carry a book (although, to be fair, if she has powers, which she does, and they're never established, it's a bit of an easy loophole... "Hey! you never said she could do THAT!" "hey, I never said she couldn't... heh heh"); I wish I hated Dolf, but I suppose everyone needs closure... including PAD; Asia is hillarious, especially when catering to the Kung-Fu-movie crowd pidgin Engrish sensibilities; Juris is... not without potential, I guess; Slate is Steve Buscemi, which means he gets a puppy. The art is very effective and tells a great story; PAD, like PAD, spins a great yarn, and will probably create something really cool here if he gets a longterm chance.

The word longterm worries me, in today's market.

I felt the conclusion to "Little Better Than A Beast" was, well, a tad hasty. I got a sense of, oh, shoot, the story's ending, let's tie up the loose ends quick! I was expecting a grander resolution than what I got, though it was by no means bad.

I also found the story and its subject matter to be disturbing... which I actually liked. Good for you, PAD, for bringing up ideas and subjects that make your readers squirm uncomfortably. It's a novel experience for me as a comics reader, and one that too few writers dare to attempt these days.

The Angel, with her absolute amorality, is really starting to give me the heebie-jeebies, too. Which I also like.

The art just keeps getting better and better, meanwhile. And I'm still loving all the little hints and subtle characterizations. It seems that, at least up till this point, Slate and Asia Minor and especially Juris are nowhere near as "evil" as they initially seemed. In fact, they almost seem noble. I'm eagerly waiting to see if this is part of some twist, or just PAD head-faking us readers before having them do something spectacularly nasty.

I wish there were more books this good on the shelves every month.

Oh, and I'm already sick of the "is she or isn't she Linda?" debate.

PAD's dropped enough clues so that anyone who wants to believe she's Linda is perfectly entitled to do so. But keeping her story shrouded in mystery also helps draw in new readers who don't care to slog through, what, eight years of complex continuity? It's a genius move. So pipe down and enjoy the book already. (;

Anyone else notice that the Beast made reference to his "previous encounters" with Lee?

"It's a genius move. So pipe down and enjoy the book already."

Until the Supergirl fans PAD lured in decide they're tired of waiting for definitive answers.

It was a poorly thought out attempt to grab as many readers as possible and based on its sales figures, didn't work very well anyway.

He should have never made the Supergirl hints at all if he didn't realise people would then expect some answers.

A better plan would have been to launch the series under the Vertigo imprint and try to lure in THOSE readers, not the fans of PAD's Superhero stories.

A better plan would have been to launch the series under the Vertigo imprint and try to lure in THOSE readers, not the fans of PAD's Superhero stories.

Except one of DC's main purposes in launching the series was to produce a book to bridge the gap between the "General Audience" of the DC books and the "For Mature Readers" of the Vertigo title. The concept was that FA would have no extreme profanity (the F word, for instance) or full frontal nudity.

Unfortunately, that concept was blasted to hell and gone once retailers freaked out over the presence of a casual reference to oral sex, and poof, suddenly we've got the same cautionary label as a Vertigo title...but none of the advantage of the Vertigo label.

On the other hand, I would dispute the notion of "based on the sales figures, it didn't work." If I hadn't allowed readers to infer a connection between "Supergirl" and "Fallen Angel," who's to say we wouldn't have drawn the numbers of several other titles DC launched at the same time which have already been canceled?

PAD

Very good points. It seems as though living without the Vertigo Label really isn’t much help. Maybe that should be changed?

Given the current state of the industry, was attempting to create a new niche really the way to go?

If I understand it correctly, doesn’t DC really consist of 3 main markets? (i) The mainstream DC universe, (ii) Else worlds/imaginary tales, (iii) Vertigo.

Where Fallen Angel sits now, the title can’t take advantage of the mainstream DCU’s continuity or characters (no JLA guest stars), it wasn’t really positioned to grab a Vertigo reader’s attention (assuming they didn’t tend to read Super-girl or Young Justice) and it doesn’t fall into the category of an Else world tale.

As for judging the success, you are right, it is not as cut and dried as I made it out. Although, I really believe this book could have survived if it didn’t have any possible S-girl links around it. I believe the series is strong and has enough going for it on its own merits that it doesn’t need any ghostly embers from S-girl to stir up interest.

I only hope that Lee’s back-story is something that can and will be fully revealed during the course of the series.

If the choices are:

a) No definitive origin/history and only an implied “she could possibly be...”

Or,

b) Here’s Lee’s origin, everything you want to know, of course she isn’t/never was Linda Danvers!

I’d much prefer and be very happy with (b).