PeterDavid.net

Good for you PAD.

I look at it like this:j

Do not hate the person but rather hate what they do.

Sort of a "Hate the sin not the sinner" view.

I know what you mean. I really hate it when something like this happens.

no, I don't hate anyone at Marvel.

Hopefully, that's mutual ;)

Speaking of which, what finally brought about the detente between you and Joe Q?

Hate, much like jealousy is such wasted energy. And the opposite of love isn't hate, it's apathy.

Good call Peter.

The problem I have is that I hate people in general.

Individuals are fine. But people? They suck, are stupid, etc etc. ;)

I have similar feelings regarding "hatred". It's an aweful lot of emotion to put into something or someone.

Why bother?

Eschel

I can't think of anyone I've ever met that I truly hate. From time to time, I meet someone and realize I would probably hate them from afar...

Wait, I just remembered my bosses when I worked at Wal-Mart.

And that one calculus professor.

Never mind.

I know how you feel, Peter. There are some people I've hated, but my M.O. regarding people who are so abusive towards me that it's impossible to have any kind of equitable relationship or communication with them is that I simply do my best to avoid talking to or associating with them.

I'd have wondered if Gary Groth was one of those few people you mentioned, but hey, you've actually talked about him. :-)

So, since your bring up GWB all the time, I guess that means you don't hate him. :)

the worse thing about hate is that the person you hate may not even know it, or even worse, they treat you nice! that just makes me hate them more.

Re: hate.

I've never gotten the impression you hated these folks. You had opinions either about them; used them in examples to illustrate a certain point; or referred to them in factual articles.

But hate? Like you, I don't waste my time or energies. Besides, if I really hate them that much AND want to write about them, I'd stick them in a novel, especially mysteries. Always need more bodies in those stories.... :)

the worse thing about hate is that the person you hate may not even know it, or even worse, they treat you nice! that just makes me hate them more

Ned: Hididelyho neighbor!

Homer: Stupid Flanders....

"I know there are people in this world who do not love their fellow human beings, and I hate people like that!!"

-- Tom Lehrer

TWL

who wishes Mr. L were active these days

I once had a Buddy Bradley T-shirt that said HATE on the back. I had to sto p wearing it due to strange looks and stranger queations.

"I love HATE and hate everything else."

Can you imagine Peter covered in Mr. T jewelry and growling about Byrne that he pities, "... the fool!"

Oh yeah, know that feeling.

When folks say theyhate something, or I must hate something, I think back to when I was, say, five or six.

Remember hating somethign then? I mean, five year-old hate is that real, blinding, all consuming, stuff. Usually lasts an hour at most.

Who the heck can sustain that? Apart from extremist huys, and even they tend to get worked up about populations, not individuals.

Frankly, if I had enough energy to hate, I'd use it for something more fun...

Adding to the quotations from Tom Lehrer and Peter Bagge's, there's of course always George B. Shaw's observation:

"The worst sin towards our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them..."

That is, indifference is (in some cases, to a certain point-of-view) [i]worse[/i] that outright hatred. Which I kinda agree with. And I can live with.

I Hate Saturn...

the planet or the car?

fear leads to anger

anger leads to hate

hate leads to todd mcfarlane!

and btw saturns are crap...their little "no haggle" policy should be renamed "just pay the full price and shut-up" policy

I try to avoid hating people. I may hate what they stand for or the work they do, but I try not to hate them as individuals. I hate reality TV. I hate rap and country music. I hate mushrooms and olives.

But I try not to hate people.

Then again, am I the only person who is consumed with an overwhelming desire to throttle Carrottop whenever I see one of his AT&T commercials?

I knew my first marriage was over when I no longer hated the things she did. I found that I no longer cared what she thought or did, and that was the end of that.

I'm reminded of a comment by screenwriter Herman Mankiewicz in response to his daughter's complaint that she hated spinach: "Young lady, in this house you do not HATE spinach. You DISLIKE spinach. You HATE your mother and father."

Hate takes energy. By hating someone you are allowing them to have a place in your life. Hate is not the opposite of love, indifference is. While I hate very few people (2) I am indifferent to many.

BTW, I do HATE W.

-tpl

Then again, am I the only person who is consumed with an overwhelming desire to throttle Carrottop whenever I see one of his AT&T commercials?

Oh, not a'tall.

Actually, I wouldn't throttle him -- that involves getting close enough to touch him, and I'm really not prepared to do that. Dropping a heavy weight on him from a tall building -- now that I could get behind.

[I passed him in a casino in Las Vegas a couple of years ago. If anything, he's more obnoxious and hideous-looking in real life than he is on screen. Frightening, really.]

TWL

"Anger is an energy."

--Johnny Rotten, who's about to appear in "I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here."

Man, I HATE it when my childhood idols sell out!

Yea . don't you just hate it when that happens. !?!

Hate is a very strong word. Unless someone harms you or your family directly or the does something catastrophically criminal that effects us all - HATE is usually not the word. Dislike I guess.

While I never email you, PAD about why you might've "hated" these other guys like Byrne and Mc F - I am interested in what all the hubbubs about.

I mean it seems this thing goes back a ways and i am not up on comic book gossip and such - but if you're recent comment is any indication, i.e.:

This is, and always has been, a Todd's-Being-A-Dick case.

it would seem obvious why someone might ask why you hate him. I'd rather not split words on why you "hate" him or strongly dislike and hear what the heck the story is.

Because anything else is just semantics and if there's anything I hate . . .oh nevermind.

It's just semantics. People use "hate" the same way they do "love."

If I said "I love hamburgers," would you really think I meant that I want to marry a hamburger?

So when people ask why you "hate" John Byrne, they're simply using hyperbole and they actually just want to know why you may disagree with him on occaision.

Exactly - let's hear it.

I have a gap in my comics collection. I was collecting during Mc F's run on Spidey - THEN he started to write a SPidey and writing in general PLUMMETTED.

I see a bad Spawn movie - a so-so Spawn cartoon - go back to Comics and all I hear about Mc F is that he's buying baseballs for absrud amoutns of money - (which he has so . . .) and he makes toys.

I know PAD and Mc F worked together on Hulk - other than that - what happened?

I know PAD and Mc F worked together on Hulk - other than that - what happened?

It's actually very simple.

Years ago, Image launched. They did so with a lot of rhetoric that was contradictory and made no sense, and made a big news splash doing so. In my column, "But I Digress"--in which I routinely wrote about things that made splashes in the news--I pointed out the rhetoric was contradictory and made no sense. I said they should pick one Image creator to be a spokesman and the rest of them should keep quiet since they were saying contradictory things. I also expressed concern because they kept talking about friends being in business together, and I said I hoped they had good lawyers and clear contracts because friends and business was historically a volatile mix.

This led to a flurry of attacks on me from various Image folks, most notably Todd, focusing not on *what* I had said but instead on all the doubtless nefarious reasons I must have had *for* saying it...even though they copped to the fact that the initial press releases were poorly written.

Todd also took great exception to a later column that was critical of Rob Liefeld, and Todd loudly defended "my Pal, Rob" in the pages of "Wizard" while continuing to beat the "Peter David only said this because he hates Image" drum.

The fact that subsequent events supported everything I said (they *did* wind up choosing a single spokesman, they *did* have a major falling out amongst themselves), and that Todd even wound up saying far more vicious things about Liefeld than I ever did, is typically ignored. Because, you see, saying "Peter David hates" (fill in the blank) is much easier than saying, "Peter David wrote some stuff that turned out to be 100% true and some guys are still pissed off about it."

PAD

My dad told me when I was a kid that saying you hate someone meant you would be willing to kill their children.

Don't look at me, he's the one that said it.

It's just semantics. People use "hate" the same way they do "love."

I think it's more than that. I think it's understood when people say they "love" or "hate" an inanimate object or a custom or a happenstance that it's hyperbole. Likewise, if Kathleen says, "I love Johnny Depp," I know she means she enjoys his work as an actor and looks forward to seeing his work, and not that she's intending to dump me for him. At least, that's what I keep telling myself.

But in this little industry of ours, saying "So and so hates such and such" packs more punch. It's far more personal, especially in this day and age of computer interaction. All-too-often, I see such comments go hand in hand with the concept that I'm "feuding" with someone, and that leaves even less gray area.

At the very least, it implies personal enmity, and I'm just saying that's not the case. In the case of Todd, if anything I get frustrated because he keeps *doing* this stuff to himself and it's so unnecessary.

PAD

This led to a flurry of attacks on me from various Image folks, most notably Todd, focusing not on *what* I had said but instead on all the doubtless nefarious reasons I must have had *for* saying it.

Sorta a comic-book equivalent to "You're either with us or with the terrorists," eh?

Oh my goodnes - stop with the political comparisons.

PAD and Mc F's spats aren't the same as Al Queda for goodness sakes or George Bush's politics yada yada.

To PAD - i respect you for explaining. To not explain would make no sense.

Excuse my ignorance - but did you ever work for Image (i don't think so)

If you have a column and you talk about new stuff it's odd they would take it SO personal.

In fact, they could've regrouped immedtately and fixed what might have been wrong.

Friends and business do NOT go together well, unless of course everything is spelled out. It's unbelievable that they would have been so naive.

If all of your comments were just based on what is good or bad business, they shouldn't have taken it so personally - especially when I thought at the begining they DID make some mega MONEY and should have better things to do than worry about some things you said.

I feel the same way as you, PAD. It's common for people my age (early 20's) to hate just about anything. "I hate that show. I hate that actor. I hate this, I hate that," etc. etc. It's probably the one thing about my girlfriend that I dislike - she doesn't have disinterest for stuff, she hates it.

Me, any time a relationship or friendship has soured, any time someone has hurt me or upset me, I haven't "hated" that person, like you PAD I just disregard them. I don't talk to them, I don't even bother to say insulting things to them.

Maybe I'm biased but I think that's the healthier thing to do. And man, I HATE anyone who doesn't. (that last part was a joke)

PAD - "Likewise, if Kathleen says, "I love Johnny Depp," I know she means she enjoys his work as an actor and looks forward to seeing his work, and not that she's intending to dump me for him."

Your marriage is likely safe from Johnny Depp, but not because your wife doesn't intend to dump you for him. It's because of the Johnny Depp Theorem, espoused by my cousin (http://snipehunting.rydia.net/) and his girlfriend, which states: "If it exists, it wants to fuck Johnny Depp." That means, however unaware of this deep-seated lust you may be (and heterosexual males are the group least likely to be aware that that is what they're feeling when they watch, say Sleepy Hollow or Pirates of the Carribean) it exists.

So, your marriage is safe from Johnny Depp, simply because of the sheer amount of comptetition. It's that Orlando Bloom you gotta watch out for; he's dreamy, but not nearly as many people know it.

Of course, this is the same guy who cheats at Clue, and when you get mad at him, lectures you on your self-serving ways; after all, a man is dead here, and all you care about is yourself!

PAD, thank you for explaining the McFarlane "feud." Now would you mind explaining the "Byrne" one?

I lifted the following from:

http://marvunapp.com/Appendix/warzn1.htm

While re-reading Warzone’s first appearance for this profile, it occurred to me that Web of Spider-Man #44 might be the source of the infamous feud between John Byrne and Peter David. When Peter Parker is signing books for fans, a young boy walks up to Parker with an issue of Starbrand, and asks, "What is John Byrne really like?" Parker’s response is, "Who?" David also makes some very light-hearted jabs at Tom Defalco, Chris Claremont, and Alan Moore in this issue. Perhaps Byrne took it the wrong way. Of course, there’s no way of knowing if this is what set Byrne off, but it’s worth mentioning.

And this from CBR http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=litg&article=1808

Coupled with Peter David's recollection of the event that started their own feuding, over David's leak of Guardian's death in "Alpha Flight" to retailers (the pages retailers saw were approved by Byrne's editor and David now states that Byrne's reaction to seeing the pages when he was in the same room as the retailers, spoiled the event, rather than being interpreted as a dream sequence), this was a fine cap for a lifetime's proud work in the field.

It's because of the Johnny Depp Theorem, espoused by my cousin (http://snipehunting.rydia.net/) and his girlfriend, which states: "If it exists, it wants to fuck Johnny Depp." That means, however unaware of this deep-seated lust you may be (and heterosexual males are the group least likely to be aware that that is what they're feeling when they watch, say Sleepy Hollow or Pirates of the Carribean) it exists.

I must be the sole exception to this rule, because everytime I see him in the movies, all I can think of is, "how did such a no talent hack ever get work in Hollyweird?"

Wait a minute! I've never seen you write one word about me on your site!

Does that mean I might be one of the 2 or 3 people you hate? I don't think I've ever even met you in person. That would be horrible!

:)

Clarification: It would be horrible to be one of the two or three. It would be great to meet you in person.

I loathe quite a few people, but I really can't say I hate anyone off the top of my head.

loathe is good because it takes up less energy and time.

'Hate' is an extremely overused word. People these days will plaster it on just about anything they may only mildly dislike or anyone they find only slightly disagreeable. It's so overused that it's becoming diluted, and is losing it's true meaning.

Hate is a strong word with a strong meaning. It should only be used when you really, really really mean it.

"I hate racism!" That is a good use of the word. Racism is a malevolent stain on society, and it should be hated.

"I hate broccoli!" That is a poor use of the word. Broccoli is merely a vegetable that enjoyed by many people, but is not enjoyed by the tastebuds of others. Not really hate worthy.

The I Hate Saturn was a Kyle Baker reference... sorry...

I would just like to go on the record and state that I do, in fact, hate broccoli.

Also, Peter, for someone that routinely has his words taken out of context so everyone can complain about all the mean things you apparently say, I would have thought you'd have learned to take better care of which movie lines to quote. I can just read the headlines now:

"Peter David feels John Byrne, Todd McFarlane, Marvel Comics beneath his notice!"

Jeff:

"And the opposite of love isn't hate, it's apathy."

Whatever you say. I really don't care.

Peter,

Glad that you explained what went on between you and Image. It seems that Todd is always fighting with someone (eg. the "Tony Twist" case).

As for spats between creative minds...well, they say time heals all wounds. Don't believe me? Case in point: John Byrne and Chris Claremont working together again on JLA!

You hit the nail on the, uh, part you hit it with a hammer... to drive it in...

Hate really requires a great deal of energy. It comes creeping into your mind and heart and you need to put a lot of effort into either trying to kill or re-inforce your hate... Let it go.

STOP HATING TODD MCFARLANE!!!

Just kidding.

I hate waiting for comics, for new DVDs, and my co-worker to an extent.

What? I am man. I am, after all, inherantly evil. Man is a wolf for man, and all that jazz. Bloody Jazz!

Just for amusement value given the thread, the punt returner for the Carolina Panthers will be the first former XFL player to play in the Super Bowl...and yes, he's the one whose XFL jersey's back had on it "He Hate Me".

And let us not forget that PAD did put his money - er, rather - mouth where his mouth is with the Great Debate.

The Toddster dinna know wha' hit 'im.

I won't even pretend to remember th exact wording, But my alltime favorite letter to CBG was written by John Byrne. It was short and sweet and had to do with "The Great Debate."

Mr. Byrne was quite amusing in stating something like "Hey Peter, don't hurt him too bad!"

Just another example of, the enemy of my enemy is my friend, Or just a situation where John saw Peter as the lesser of two evils.

Den - ... all I can think of is, "how did such a no talent hack ever get work in Hollyweird?"

I think you answered your own question -- Johnny Depp is as weird as they come. And you want to fuck him. Or you don't exist. Either is entirely possible.

Many years ago I happened to see the funniest thing I have ever seen in a panto...

It was " Ali Baba and the Forty thieves" - and several of the thieves were given speaking parts... because the play was being mounted by, wait for it, the inmates of Barlinnie Prison outside Glasgow. Possibly the hardest men in the UK - certainly the scariest.

Anyway, watching these big men with names such as Mad Frankie and Billy the Razor performing a panto for kids was a bit strange, but highly enjoyable for them and very therapeutic. I should at this stage point out that the panto was NOT being mounted for kids - it was a bit, um, " adult "

Well, half a dozen of these hard men sat around a wee camp fire and discussed " who was the worst of them all ". And it was agreed that the worst people had the owrst hatreds, and they would have a competition to decide who was the worst of them all .

So, one ventured that he hated his teachers at school - but since they all could say that, he was a bit lame.

Another ventured that he hated " the polis" - which got a round of applause. A third that he hated " The army - and he would chin any sodjer who wanted to call this into question." - which got a laugh.

Number four hated " Maggie Thatcher and that Ronnie Reagan " - which gives you some idea of the timing of the show. Number five got a gsap - he hated " Father McGinty - the priest at the seminary I w as taught at " - this led to some mutterings from the Celtic supporters in the audience.

But number six, well, in hushed tones he announced that " Ah hate... ah hate..." and we all hung on what was coming next...

" Ah hate...ma maw ."

And at this, his fellow thieves agreed that anyone that could hate his mother w as damned beyond redemption, a nd could just leave the company right now, a s no-one wanted to be a ssociated with him...

The moral ? I dunno - some folk can take hating too far ???

I know the feeling, PAD. I've felt that way quite often about the obnoxious journo-talker who harrassed and insulted me over at another forum I later boycotted, and who was eventually thrown out of the forum for his behaviour, and then out of the newspaper he worked at for embarrassing the editorial staff.

I also felt that way towards the very pathetically hyprocritical administrator who discriminated against me and excused his behaviour, yet, when it comes to him, since he later seemed to regret having approached the whole matter the way he did, should I continue to do so? To say the least, if he were to just open up properly to someone and admit that he went about the whole matter in the wrong way, maybe I could forgive him, ditto if he were to have emailed me and apologized.

A note of the PAD/Byrne "feud." During the 15 minutes Byrne was writing X-Men over Lee & Portacio's plots, some 13 years ago, Byrne mentioned, among other things that I don't remember now that PAD had written a story must have been for Marvel Comics Presents or something that had Spitfire, who he had just de-aged in her costume, which destroyed a scene he had intended to write with with the young Jacqueline Falsworth trying out tentatively what the costume would look like holding it in front of her in the mirror or something. The reason I remember this is because I never got the oppertunity to tell him I read something similar to his description, but didn't remember PAD's name and I didn't think he wrote it.

So, it may not matter now at this point. But I think is this long standing acrimony has some dubious basis in at least some repsects.

Brian

Brian--I have no idea WHAT is being talked about in regards to some Spitfire story. The only stories I recall writing for "Marvel Presents" were the Wolverine "Blood Hungry" story and a couple of Hulk one-shots. Never wrote Spitfire.

PAD

And you want to fuck him. Or you don't exist. Either is entirely possible

Then I guess I don't exist. What is so attractive about looking like you've just fell out of bed after a three-day coke binge?

It's something akin to Heroin-chic.

Something else I don't get.

fbgfdhgfhxg