People ask, between my writing and my family, when do I sleep? Answer is...never! It's 5 AM, I just finished the script for "Fallen Angel #12" and I figured, hey! I'm semi-coherent! Close enough for the round-up! Spoilers follow...
SMALLVILLE: An episode in which the whole gloriously exceeds the sum of its parts. In terms of the latter, it's another Freak of the Week, and Adam is kind of weird (which we knew) and Lex is poking around into things (which is SOP), the fact that Clark's saving the coach changed Lana's possible future (and that he was behind the kidnapping) were pretty obvious, and Jonathan has a heart attack (which we saw coming). But it all came together so beautifully that, damn, it was fantastically compelling. I was watching it on video tape and I couldn't speed through the commercials fast enough. The psychic kid was great, the story pacing was seamless, I just LOVED that eerie future shot of the flapping Superman cape heading into...well, kind of looked like a Boom Tube, actually. Plus there's fascinating ambiguities. "I think Adam died." Well, if he's really who we think he is, then in a sense, that's true. Young Bruce Wayne, the innocent boy, died in the alley as he watched his parents' lifeblood seep away, and something else was born...something that wouldn't receive its real name until years later when a bat flapped through a window. And Jonathan's protest of "Not now, it's too soon"...a frightened man simply protesting his impending mortality? Or something more? The culmination of the mysterious deal he cut with Jor-El, perhaps? Bottom line, the series continues to fire on all cylinders.
ANGEL: Damn. I mean, DAMN. I had to say it, I just HAD to go and say it. People who watched it, you know what I'm talking about. People who didn't, I can't bring myself to say it. The episode itself--a superb 100th episode. Everything, from its nods to the show's earliest days (including the Doyle video from "Hero," giving us a look at the tragic Glenn Quinn) to the (for now) resolution of the Lindsay storyline to the snappy dialogue ("Harmony, if she moves, you can eat her." "Really?!" or WES: We should come with you. ANGEL: No. I'm not going to risk the life of somebody I care about. SPIKE: I'll come. ANGEL: Great, let's go.") to the returned Cordelia's helping Angel recapturing the sense of heroism it all worked. You had to love Cordy feeling she'd woken up in a bizarro world; too bad she doesn't remember the first time that happened back in BtVS. They played scrupulously close to continuity, right down to Conner. In every way, the episode worked not only as a smooth summary of what had gone before (notice the effortless exposition, as opposed to last week's painful info dump from Andrew) but a powerful sense of what's to come. But...aw, DAMN IT, Whedon.
WEST WING: Okay, finally. This one had everything. Toby, deciding he's going to try and fix Social Security, almost singlehandedly derails his own career and the Bartlet administration. No good deed went unpunished, and every best laid scheme gang agley (as they aft do). I'm still wrestling with how I felt about the ending. If you take the episode to its most reasonable outcome, Toby's resignation is accepted, he's gone, there's some shouting on Capitol Hill for a while, and then everything settles down to non-business as usual while Social Security sinks slowly into the mire that no one is working to save it from. That's what would have happened. Instead, once Toby started working with Josh (as opposed to working at cross purposes with him) they actually managed to sort things out, strike a deal, and save the program...although Bartlet had to keep quiet about how they brought it all about so his "legacy" remains barren (but, on the other hand, Toby gets to stay.) But you know what? That's what "West Wing" is *supposed* to be about. An idealized government where things get done and nobility and self-sacrifice are the order of the day, instead of self-interest and ass-covering. Perhaps it's so long that we've seen that--either in our own government or in Bartlet's--that it's hard to accept it when it's there. So yeah, I'll give 'em the ending, unlikely as it seems. You know why? Because I haven't slept.
Baby's crying. Gotta go.
PAD
Posted by Peter David at February 5, 2004 05:34 AM | TrackBack | Other blogs commentingYes - all in all a pretty good week for TV.
I guess I saw the ending of Angel coming about halfway through (as in all good stories if there's a line/scene that's in there for no apparent reason to the story, usually it's VERY applicable to the story) and in this case - I finally realised there was more to the reunion scene than had met the eye. Didn't spoil my enjoyment - and that's got to be a tribute to the show's honchos. You mention Joss, Peter, but much of the kudos here must go to David Fury - yet again proving he can deliver both roses and sucker-punches simultaneously.
Nice character moments throughout. Good to see a well-balanced Cordelia/Charisma (see what she can do in her prime?)back.
As for West Wing. Dear God, if only more members of either of own governments were that inclined to put themselves on the line like that. The real world is all buck-passing, sound-bites and semantics nowadays... and even if WW hasn't been at its best this season, I just wish some of these well-written characters were the real version instead of our over-written and under-written real-life equivalents.
John
WEST WING: I actually really liked last night's episode. The focus on Toby, and on Bartlet's willingness to sacrifice taking credit for the victory, were really well done.
I actually thought Will was well used in this episode, as well. The jokes about VP Bob Russell were actually pretty funny. "He's so dull he needs a strobe light to look like he's moving."
The only minor irritation about this episode for me is Josh's willingness to order Donna to spy on Toby's assistant. I know Josh is desperate to remain the President's "political" manager, but I can't see Josh ordering Donna to spy on Toby's assistant. On the other hand, yay for Donna in being unwilling to go through with it.
C.J. was well utilized in the episode as well. "I painted the rooms pink and blue. I bought the crib. I'm looking for a door. Shut the door..." Very nice use of humor.
All in all, a pretty good episode. It wasn't outstanding, nor does it resemble this show at its best, but it's a good episode in an otherwise uneven season.
WW: I liked that in the end it resembled the way it was, but as a whole I was disaapointed. I hated that Toby was hung out to dry, ( that's not my Camelot I used to love watching ), but it is our govenrment, as PAD said, & Who wants to see more of that!? I too hated the spy thing...nope not my Camelot.
AND dammit I missed all but five minutes of Angel. Can't wait to catch it later though, looked like a goodie!
( even if they did turn all noble in the end it took too long to get there )
oops that last line was supposed to go under my West Wing comment! DOH!
Glad to see you pegged my favorite bit o' Dialogue too:
WES: We should come with you. ANGEL: No. I'm not going to risk the life of somebody I care about. SPIKE: I'll come. ANGEL: Great, let's go.
Hopefully they'll get around to explaining Lindsay and Eve's real plans beyond what we saw in this episode.
What about the ad for next week's Angel though, Angel 1943? Since it's a historical piece, makes me wander what they've got planned for the second half of the season...
I've also just noticed that I ruined CJ's punchline.
It should read... "I'm looking for a donor. Shut the door..."
*ba-dum-bum-bum*
:-)
It's way too much to hope for that Adam is really You-Know-Who (and I don't mean Voldemort). I only so much hope in TPTB at DC/WB, and I have to ration it out. It's great that you hope for it too, tho LOL. But I'll give a cookie to whoever's right.
Yes, some damn fine TV last night. www.comicscontinuum had plots for upcoming episiodes of both Smallville and Angel on their site this week. Looks like some good stuff coming up.
And, hey, next week is a Pete themed episode. Who knew?
Bobby
I can usually figure out the end long before it actually happens on most shows. I'm glad this wasn't the case with Angel last night. The ending actually left me with a tear in my eye and wasn't at all what I expected.
When Doyle died, he passed the gift on to Cordelia. Will Angel now have his own visions?
I'll have to agree 100% with Peter on Smallville and Angel this week.
If I didn't suspect that Adam might end up being an incognito young Bruce Wayne, the addition of the blatent last name of "Knight" (or was that Night?), plus the piano playing, transcript stuff, and reminder of his martial arts was a huge tip-off. Well, that plus we've heard they were going to try to put Bruce into the show somehow.
Before that I thought maybe he was the son of professional espionage agents or had been one himself at some point.
Question raised is with Lex looking into Adam's background would Alfred be tipped off and find him?
And the "he may have died" migth also refer to some other R or Adult rated horror he might have experienced as part of his "accident". Adam may have been created to be his rehab vacation, or he may have already had established his persona as Adam from Oklahoma before his "accident". The accident could have been a result of trying some vigilanty action and being caught or Adam may have just randomly fallen victem to a human predator (hence the R to Adult rating of what happened to him implied).
Scott B raises an interesting question about visions on Angel.
Don't watch the West Wing, but I suppose I'll get to like it one of these days.
ANGEL: F%$K. Gall Darn it! Cordy was amazing. Strong, funny, up front, literate. It really was a great ep.
And then the phone rang. It became a timeless ep. And a sad one. I second your thouht PAD, Damn Whedon. Damn.
It all made sense. And it didn't. I felt this way after coming out of ST:Nemesis. A great story. A great ending. A person gone. And make no mistake Cordy was a person in my life. She might have been fantasy but she was still a person.
Damn.
-tpl
I'm trying desperately not to read the spoilers up in this thread yet, since we haven't seen the show yet, but I'm reposting a request I put in VERY late in the last Angel thread, namely this:
My wife and I actually missed last week's Angel (the Andrew one) owing to a VCR screw-up, and no local friends have a tape we could borrow.
Anyone happen to have a tape they're willing to lend out? If so, e-mail me: I'll happily pay round-trip postage and all that.
Thanks -- sorry for the intrusion.
TWL
And they didn't even have to resort to "She hasn't touched anyone" silliness, great scene when Spike determined that Cordy wasn't evil...
My favorite line from Angel:
(Cordy to Lindsay): We're here for dinner and a show, and you're both.
Last night's Angel was a great episode, one of the best they've had in quite a while. It showed what they were missing this year.
However, it was also my last episode. I'm just not really digging the direction the show is going and with my favorite character gone I just don't see the point. Wonder how many other long-time fans are going to leave?
I still don't think Adam is Bruce Wayne. The whoe syringe thing throws it off for me, though it has been established in comics continuity that Bruce did use Venom to enhance himself, but the whole thing doesn't ring true for me. Besides, Adam smiles WAY too much for it to be Bruce.
The only thing that would have enhanced the cape moment would have been a few bars of the John Williams "Superman" theme (which I hope the producers of the new movie will continue to use as a thematic hook, a la the "Bond" films), but this story, while it foreshadowed Clark's ultimate destiny, didn't really advance his journey to that destiny, per se. Therefore, it was appropriate that it wasn't used (probably saving it for the next "Dr. Swann" episode in two weeks time).
And one last thing. The look of heroic determination on Clark's face as he carried "psychic kid." Does anyone here agree with me that the WB should stop their obviously abortive casting attempts and just wait until "Smallville" runs its course and THEN cast Welling as Superman?
Does anyone here agree with me that the WB should stop their obviously abortive casting attempts and just wait until "Smallville" runs its course and THEN cast Welling as Superman?
Oh, absolutely. I've become convinced that there is really only one actor in a given generation who is meant to play Superman Ð one actor in all the world who can portray the nobility, determination and compassion of the Man of Steel. The reason Warner Bros. is having such a difficult time casting Superman for a new movie is because this generation's Superman has already been discovered. All they have to do is let the series finale of "Smallville" lead into the first new movie.
As to "Angel": The loss is still sinking in. Yes, its the Whedonverse and she could come back in some fashion, but its pretty much certain that she won't. I'm guessing this is what it would have felt like to lose Xander, Willow or Giles. Perhaps those three surviving the Buffy finale makes this pain hurt a bit more.
Matt
And, hey, next week is a Pete themed episode. Who knew?
Yeah, but it looks like just a "hey let's have the useless guy act all reckless and crap because we haven't even bothered to give him a character yet." I hope it's more than that, but to me it smacks of making the one black kid in Kansas a "troublemaker," and that just is irritating tokenism.
As for the current Smallville, I thought it was pretty good, although it killed me that we didn't get to see what exactly it was Adam's "future" was. How sad is it that we're all in a tizzy over this Dark-Knight-come-lately? With this much buzz it makes me wonder if they'll be thinking pilot for Mr. Knight further down the road. Globe trotting, helping the helpless, being brooding and unstable.
On "Angel," I can't say enough how much I missed Charisma Carpenter's cleavage. The entire episode was a nice nod to all of us fans that have hung in through the whole this season's premise change. So many great nods to the past that it's kind of sad realizing how much of the past has been glossed over this season in the hopes of bringing in new viewers. Maybe now they can say "All ashore who's going ashore" and really pick up a head of steam.
Of course, it's easy to say that right before this seasons supposed Big Bad gets sucked away into Hell (of course, when Angel steps out of line in the future, it'll make me wonder why they don't pull this trick on him...or have in the past when he's been in the building [I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt here saying they can only do this on their turf, but that still seems like a stretch]).
Was I the only one who thought it would have been amazing if the box with the anti-Angel device opened up and it turned out to be Connor?
So like the song says, where do we go from here? Is this a big raspberry to everyone who doesn't trust Angel, because apparently the PTB actually *want* him at W&H?
As for the flashback episode next week, all the trailer made me think was "Hey, didn't Spike not know that Angel had a soul when they met up after not seeing each other for years and years back in Buffy, Season 2?" Then again, he also said at the time that Angel was his sire, so it may be time to a little retcon...
Oh my god, those bastards, they killed her. I think I realized what was going on the minute the phone rang and Cordy says, "No, that you have to get." And that totally colors the entire ep once you realize that she KNOWS she's going to die. I don't even think the emotional implact has hit me yet. But hey, it wouldn't be a Joss 100th without him killing off the leading lady (and with a crying vamp at the end...). Can you tell I'm a little bitter? But quite a gorgeous episode.
ANGEL: It's weird. Like Tobin, a (fictional, and oft irritating, but just as often wildly entertaining) person is now gone. For good, apparently... although death in the Whedonverse is only as permanent as Joss (and sometimes the actors) makes it.
I think this is for-real, though, unless they bring her back as a ghost or a flashback.
It was very interesting to see the growth of Cordelia's character from the high-school popularity contest bimbette, to actual bonafide hero over the past... ahem... 8 years! Jeez.
On the other hand... oddly enough... I realized that while I missed Cordelia as a presence and definitely missed seeing the beauteous Charisma on-screen... like Wes and Cordy said while doing the research... I didn't miss her as much as I would have thought.
If only because she wasn't much of a presence last season.
Although I'd love to see more shots of that post-baby cleavage... (I know, I know, that's superficial of me ... hey, I'm a guy, what can I say?)...
..I don't mind a Cordy-less Angel if only because I think the current cast has a tight, solid character dynamic, and it really does fine without Cordy. We'll see if they get picked up for another year, though.
I hope so.
Definitely gonna keep watching.
...
SMALLVILLE - my wife hated Adam's character as soon as she saw him on screen... he reminded her too much of a controlling ex. I decided that her judgement was borne out with last night's ep.
Smallville: Adam isn't Bruce Wayne. The reference to "my parents would have killed for a piano like this" doesn't sound like the Waynes. Maybe it's just a cover, but...
Angel: Spike met the ensouled Angel right after he killed his first slayer. He spent a couple weeks with him and didn't know he wasn't evil anymore. I imagine this episode will have him not learning the truth either.
WEST WING - I enjoyed it a lot for the first time in a while. I agree in the "real world" Toby would have been gone. However, I also like that they hit a real issue for the first time in a while: Social Security is going broke and we do have to make some tough choices.
In my opinion, we are going to have to do several things: 1) raise the retirement age, 2) remove the wage cap (why no more after $75,000?) and 3) increase risk/reward for younger people (there's no reason not to put some of that money in long-term investments that even guarenteed will make more than the anemic trust fund).
However, as the episode demonstrates, no one really wants to touch it for fear of the wrath of powerful lobbying groups.
I was hoping for a glimpse of Doomsday during the flapping cape scene in Smallville.
Charisma Carpenter showed why she shouldn't have been dropped from the show with her performance in this episode.
--your pal, Hoy
Anybody who didn't tear up when Cordy was watching Doyle's video, is a cold-hearted bastard. Although, perhaps it made what was coming a bit to easy to guess. (Especially when she actually quotes Doyle's last line of dialogue.)
And yes, it's quite clear to me that TPTB want Angel in W+H, which is why they woke Cordy up as soon as he decides to quit.
STC
Angel:
Oh my god, those bastards, they killed her.
I'm still not sure that's what really happened. As an outsider, and a newbie, it looked to me like she had one favor she could ask for... and she decided to cash it in. My guess is that she asked to be retconned into Connor's life. Seems to me, that's what any Mother would ask for.
Is she gone?
No, I don't think so; but it seems that for now, her character has run its course.
One question I have is; Has anyone ever seen The Powers that Be, or any of the Partners? Has their power been established? Because, given the way they dispatched Lindsay... it just makes me wonder about the futility of being a pawn in their chess game.
Smallville
Darn, I miss the Dead Zone.
I loved the nod they gave to the mythology of Superman... "Clark, it's as if you never die; like you go on living for ever". Must have been scary for Clark, but I took it more as a metaphor. Funny, once I knew this guy could see the future, I was like... touch Clark, now touch Adam! Three more things... It's good to know that Clark will become the Caped Wonder of Metropolis ('cause as far as the Smallville Universe goes, that was still up in the air). As far as Adam goes, there's no way Gotham City is remotely near Oklahoma! No way! And since we were given no reason to doubt Josh, I'll have to conclude he's either another character or a thinly veiled version of the Dark Knight (just, not the real deal).
As for Jonathan... well, I didn't see that comming. And well, to me, he's the lynchpin of the series.
West Wing
My only complaint is that Josh really screwed Toby over. Screwed him really good. Reminded me of that time I asked a friend if he didn't mind me dating his ex- girlfriend. He said "no, of course not". His body language said otherwise, so I took a hint and backed off.
Josh, you and Toby have been friends for 6 years. You should've known to take a hint. But as the saying goes, friends in Washington have the courtesy to stab you in the front.
PAD last week: I'm hoping for better things this week. Let's just hope they don't do something unfortunate like kill off Cordy.
Oops. Guess Joss was listening. Do me a favor and don't talk about my man Gunn, okay?
Well, late for the roundup again even though I'm on my lunch break at work as I type this (wasnn't expecting the roundup until after Tru Calling airs tonight); so here's whats left of my original notes...
Smallville:
While the great Adam debate still rages on, why can't we see some other actual DC Universe characters instead of these cheap Marvel knock-offs? Maybe TRP Productions is auditioning to do a Marvel production?
Angel:
Of course with Whedon, even 'death' isn't forever to every character. I will miss Cordy, but what is Ms. Carpenter doing in the meantime?
Meanwhile, after 1943 next week, where does the series go from here?
Okay... my spoilerish comments about Cordy can be seen here:
http://www.silentobsession.com/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=414
(as Village Mystic)
And I agree that they should save Supes for Welling, if they can.
On "Adam's" abrasive but not evil personality -- fits in with the almost preferredly single Bruce Wayne from the comics. If you had to be his friend, most of the time you wouldn't be able to stand him! And he's unaplogetic about it.
Oops, never mind. For some reason I thought Cordelia was Connor's Mom. The episode wasn't clear on that issue, but after doing some internet research, I know better now. But still, she was kind of like a surrogate mom, and according to the episode she had a wish she could cash in. So the question remains, did she wish to see Angel one last time? or did she wish for something entirely different (that's still up in the air)?
ANGEL: Remember, though, that Lindsay sold his soul to the senior partners a long time ago. He is theirs to toy with as they please. Why else would he be so obsessed with the tattoos? The second they realized that he had betrayed them (not too long after he left Angel the first time, I think), they'd come looking for him.
Usually these cosmic chess games involve a balance of forces. TPTB aren't just annihilating the Senior Partners (and vice versa) in large part because the other must be allowed to scheme against the others. Sure, there are probably protection spells, etc. in place, but it all boils down to waiting to strike until exactly the right moment.
I, too, missed Charisma's cleavage. I also found that I did miss Cordy's character, but I don't believe her to be essential to Angel's story in any way. She has completed her maturation process; she's the only one of the group (other than Doyle) who has. An unconflicted character is a boring character. (I'll skip over the fact that we haven't seen too much of a conflict in Lorne other than the one ep earlier this season...)
Anyway...
Eric
I have a strong suspicion that Adam is a vampire.
ANGEL:
I've been watching DVD's of the superb Season Two with a newcomer to the show... and I've been missing Cordelia a lot these days... Way before last night's great show. Cordelia's presence back then was so right on, so perfect as the counterpoint to Angel's gruff demeanor.
Newcomers--please don't confuse "Real" Cordelia with "Badly Possessed" Cordelia from last season. I thought it was shameful what Whedon did to the character and to Charisma... But I do miss regular ol' Cordelia.
However, I did notice last night that Whedon is right about one thing concerning Cordelia's character development-- The writers really have painted Cordelia's character into a corner. Cordelia once again came off as a mother figure-- albeit a very HOT mother figure-- and I can't see "mother figures" being what the WB wants to help attract more viewers to this show.
Charisma needs to go somewhere where they respect her amazing talent and get a character that's fresh-- far away from the "mother figure" Cordelia that Whedon & Company slowly let slip further and further away. (And don't say it was "character development"... It was more like "Character Demolishment".)
I don't think Cordelia is "gone" in the absolute sense. Didn't she just "graduate" to being a Higher Power figure? Or am I forgetting something here?
And yes, I loved the whole episode... Except the line where Angel mumbles something about Lindsay & Eve going to an awful lot of trouble to make him doubt himself.
Get Over It, Angel! Geez, how many times have you lost your "faith" and doubted yourself? In just the last 8 years?!
What I'd really like to see is an entire season where the writers just let Angel kick major butt and figure out a way to make the character exciting without revealing he's been possessed or putting him in a deep funk or whatever... Just straight Kick Butt Angel.
Then, if you want to pull the rug out from underneath the poor slob with only four eps to go in the Season... Be my guest. :-)
I really enjoyed the SMALLVILLE & ANGEL doubleheader.
SMALLVILLE-- PAD's definitely not alone in grooving on the "future end" of Clark Kent. I have to admit I didn't think of a boomtube. I was thinking of Alan Moore's Mr. Majestic story in which the super-powered alien hero eventually lives to the end of the universe, only to give himself up to the big bang rebirth and death cycle.
Also Clark's ummm... unique status in the flow of the events of the world, reminds me of that ep where the old lady could see Clark's future and said that he was unique, and he was able to make changes whereas others couldn't. What Jordan said echoed that idea in my head.
I haven't seen anyone mention the fact that Knight is also the last name of the Starman family of heroes in the DCU. (Now if I was stretching things a bit, wouldn't you say Adam was a little bit Strange? heh heh... just Panning, I mean Ranning, no, I meant to say punning.)
ANGEL--hasn't MutantEnemy done this before- resolving the "big bad" plotline in the middle of a season only to have something come in out of the left field? I can't remember which seasons of Buffy and Angel have done that but I know it must have been done before.
Now I'm left wondering- what next? I guess PAD was right in saying that Lindsey's plotline was only resolved "for now." Who knows, the stunts he pulled probably merited him a promotion. And there's still the question of Eve. Like Gunn said once, "you don't become a liason to the senior partners for nothing."
Hmm wild idea- Gunn's the next big bad? Seduced by evil so completely while living in denial and justifying it for being the greater good? Eve might be fired and Gunn might become the next liason. Ah well. Just brain-drizzling.
Also this ep. proved PAD or was it a regular poster's? instincts right- Harmony is still evil. She's just following the current moral code in place at W&H, just the same as she would follow a dress code.
Racquetball with the devil? Isn't there an obscure phrase that goes "playing handball with the devil?"
eddie
According to TVtome, with the episode guide already up to episode 18 of this season, a possessed Fred will be the next big bad.
Loved both Angel and Smallville, but I have a couple of questions:
Who was the other female patient in the bed when Angel and Wesley went to the hospital? They both seemed to think it was Cordelia, until she actually spoke from the other side of the room, walked over and drew the curtain around the bed. I just thought it was wierd, but also a little telling.
And, on Smallville, did anyone happen to catch what info on Adam was displayed on Lex's computer? I tried to read it, but without recording it and freezing it, I couldn't make much out.
Just saw this: Scifi.com has a small news item that says Charisma Carpenter wants to play Wonder Woman! I'm not sure if I think she could pull it off or not, but its an interesting idea.
I'm guessing that the patient in the other bed was Cordelia herself. She was quick to distract them and draw the curtain before they saw a face, and brush off her healthy appearance as an odd side-effect of a mystic coma. Given the ending, however, I'd guess the Cordy we were seeing was using some sort of temporary body provided by the Powers.
I don't think Cordelia is "gone" in the absolute sense. Didn't she just "graduate" to being a Higher Power figure? Or am I forgetting something here?
That's what I thought. I only got to see the last 20 minutes of Angel last night, but it really left an impression on me for the rest of the evening....
My favorite line from last night's Angel was "Did you just call me a tit?"
Sweet ending to Cordelia's character. I really love the new direction the show has taken this year...the stand alone episodes interleaved with small seemingly resolved mini-arcs. It's reminiscent of the X-Files best seasons. If there's one thing to be learned from the X-Files' former glory, it's that commercial and creative success is possible with this format. I was so sick of last year's miserable "24" like season. This show has been rejuvenated and I think those fans who despise the change hinder the show's success. This season ranks as one of the best of Angel (second only in my opinion to Season 3). Last night's episode proves that Cordy is Angel's past and if there's one thing the Whedonverse excels at is change.
I agree with the comments above...I don't think Lindsey or Eve are this year's "Big Bad". I think all the hinting is pointing to Gunn (or possibly the return of Connor). If there's one couple I hope never to see again, it's Lindsey or Eve. I do hope their stories are now resolved because neither actor is very good.
Who was the other female patient in the bed when Angel and Wesley went to the hospital? They both seemed to think it was Cordelia, until she actually spoke from the other side of the room, walked over and drew the curtain around the bed. I just thought it was wierd, but also a little telling.
My wife & I believe it was indeed Cordy...Angel & Wes were prevented from seeing her clearly, and we the audience didn't get a look at her. When the caller at the end told Angel Cordy had never woken up, it seemed logical.
So much seemed to hint at the end, when looking with 20/20 hindsight, particularly Cordy's comments about how Doyle had given his last breath to make sure Angel kept up the fight, and she understood that now.
Fantastic episode!
insideman: And yes, I loved the whole episode... Except the line where Angel mumbles something about Lindsay & Eve going to an awful lot of trouble to make him doubt himself.
Get Over It, Angel! Geez, how many times have you lost your "faith" and doubted yourself? In just the last 8 years?!
That may have been the point. The thought I had when he said that was, "They did go to a lot of work, considering how little one really has to do to make Angel lose his faith.
Frankly, I think Lindsay showed remarkably little foresight after how resourceful he's been this season. Sure, he was all set to sidle into W&H, but he must have known there was at least the possibility that the gang might get the drop on him mystically. Unless, of course, Lindsay's real plan was to gain direct audience with the Senior Partners -- after all, what better way to get their attention than to show he can outsmart them? -- suggesting that Peter may be wrong about his character arc being resolved for now.
William: Who was the other female patient in the bed when Angel and Wesley went to the hospital? They both seemed to think it was Cordelia, until she actually spoke from the other side of the room, walked over and drew the curtain around the bed. I just thought it was wierd, but also a little telling.
I'm pretty sure that was Cordelia's actual body, since it was stated at the end of the episode that she never woke up, and Cordelia disappeared from Angel's office right then.
"She Said, She Said"
As big an admirer as I was of “The Sixth Sense,” I already had the “big surprise ending” all figured out before ever walking into the theater based entirely on the trailer and reviewers’ innuendoes. But this "Angel" episode’s “big surprise ending” totally blindsided me and left me utterly awed for the remainder of the evening. Hell, it still has me utterly awed! I was never a big fan of either Cordy as a character or Charisma Carpenter as an actress. In fact, I always thought she was one of the weakest elements in both "Buffy" and "Angel." But this was undoubtedly one of the greatest swan songs (presuming it is, in fact, her swan song) for a regular character in television history. It even gives the final Henry Blake episode of “M.A.S.H.” a run for its money. Kudos!!
According to TVtome, with the episode guide already up to episode 18 of this season, a possessed Fred will be the next big bad.
Okay, first, some of us don't actually want to know this sort of thing. Second, if this is the case, I will have lost all faith in the ME crew. I mean, they haven't done a "one of our own turns against us/is posessed and is a major villain" since...last year (Angel s4)? The year before (Buffy s6)?
Both Angel and Smallville were fantastic this week.
SMALLVILLE: As PAD said, it was an episode greater than the sum of its parts. I had to re-watch the cape scene three times. It was just too cool.
My only reservation about Adam as Bruce is that we all think that, and the writers must *know* we all think that, and thusly could be misdirecting us. The vampire theory's kinda cool, but I think he's been out in the day. I *want* him to be Bruce Wayne, but I'm definitely not banking on it.
ANGEL: Cordy, you will be missed. This episode [almost] made up for the crap they've been doing to her since the end of season 3. A nice end, and as someone earlier said it, all the more emotional concidering the rest of the original Buffy crew is still alive. I think this episode was handled wonderfully. I'm genuinely sad to see her go.
Oh, one not-serious thing: Who was on crack when they decided to have Spike playing Donkey Kong on an X-Box? That was just....stupid.
For those males (and females) who are interested-- there is a short blurb about the possibility of Charisma posing for Playboy here: http://www.charisma-carpenter.com/index2.shtml
It's also just a fun Charisma site.
Doug, you beat me to to punch. I agree that it was, indeed, Cordelia's body in the bed that she pulled the curtain around. Looking back, I can't see W&H scimping on giving a private hospital room to someone so important to the new CEO. I remember thinking that it was weird when Cordy said it.
That said, I must be slow, because I totally didn't see the last part coming...even when she told him to get the phone. I had it all mapped out that she was going to acend again and once more become a higher being. I was looking at the whole episode though that lens. I even looked at the tape of Doyle as a means to show him to the audience and tell us who he was. To explain why Angel & Cordy were so angry at Lindsey for the name he chose. Even her speech about Doyle "making the final sacrifice without compromise" I took as Cordy making a jab at Angel and his willingness to compromise with W&H instead of her looking forward to her own sacrifice. So I was strung along to to the very end when we get the gut-wrenching phonecall instead of the sparkling accension into heaven that I was expecting.
I had to rewind the tape and watch the whole thing a second time immediately after watching it. I could see it all the second time through: everything that had meant almost what I thought. The end result is almost exactly the same. She's gone and won't be able to help him outside of the most extraordinary of circumstances. She's probably gone to some heavenly reward instead of going to work as a Higher Power, so it might even be a "happier" ending. Still, she's dead and I realized it with the same punch-to-the-gut sensation that hit Angel. Sad, but still masterful.
One last thought. I originally thought that Eve knew about Conner because of her position as liason to the Senior Partners. How could she work in that capacity if she didn't know what Angel's "Signing Bonus" was. Now, I'm not so sure. I'm reminded of last season, when all references to and memories of the Beast were removed from our dimension. I'm thinking that what W&H did with Conner works in a similar manner. Eve's knowledge of Conner could be analogous to the tome from another dimension that Lila came up with on the Beast. Maybe Eve knows about Conner because she's from another dimension. What is Eve?
And how could anyone think that her role as an enemy for Angel is done. She left that last scene virtually swearing to Angel that she'd get revenge. To quote a certain Centauri, "Problems like this are like weeds. We fertilized them with indifference, water them with tears. Leave them alone; they grow."
Okay. The water is fully chummed. I hope I don't need a bigger boat.
Those of us in the Baltimore area get to watch this week's Angel Saturday afternoon at 5 PM.
College basketball uber alles on channel 54.
Maybe I'll forget the little surprises I saw while scrolling down here. My fault--I read fast.
Paul
I loved the episode, but was disappointed in the resolution of Lindsay. I was hoping he was gunning for the senior partners as a rogue force of good and going through Angel was just gravy. Maybe he was, but you sure couldn't tell from this episode. Instead, we seemed to have an elaborate setup that lead up to little more motivation than a vendetta with Angel. How cool would it have been if TPTB had indeed chosen Lindsay as their new visionary with Spike to help the helpless and fight W&H because Angel went to the other side? Shame it was just a ruse.
I'm hoping the untold background story and motivation of Lindsay and Eve won't be a throwaway one like The First in BVS, but I'm getting the notion that all the Lindsay elements were nothing more than a vehicle to have him participate for the grand 100th episode.
Like so many, I miss Cordy. Not the Evil possessed Cordy, nor the preechy do-gooder version in the latter half of season three. I miss the Cordy of season two. The one who dubbed our reality as the "Cordelia Is Not A Princess Dimension". Self-absorbed-but-with-a-heart-of-gold Cordy. This was such a perfect grace note for that character's exit.
At least they didn't pull an "Amber Benson" and put her in the title credits. That would have been wickedly cruel.
I liked the Angel episode and was surprised by the way it ended. I knew Charisma Carpenter wasn't coming back on a regular basis and figured Cordelia was simply going to do something different with her life for a time. I didn't expect it to end the way it did, but I think it provides a more memorable, if sadder, exit for the character.
As to the figure in the bed, I never gave it any thought once we saw Cordy up and around. If someone had asked me at that moment, I probably would've pointed out that both Buffy and Angel had moments where you thought A was true, but in fact B was. Case in point, when Cordelia was impaled on Buffy, the scene cut to a funeral. Then a moment later we see Buffy and Willow walk past talking about how Cordy's going to be fine. Along those same lines I took the figure in the bed as a piece of misdirection for both the audience and Wes and Angel so Cordy could surprise them.
Turns out it was misdirection, but of another kind.
I agree thac the episode gives Henry Blake's finale a run for its money.
Rick
Okay, I'm probably way out in left field here, but is there any chance that Lindsey's tattoos were removed with some sort of transference spell (rather than just being erased)? Something about the way Wes said "I think I feel it working..." (or something much like that) felt portentious to me. I'm wondering if he felt them moving on to him. I know that they looked like they were vaporising off of Lindsey, but heck, it's magic...
And I really like the idea of Wesley being invisible to the Senior Partners. Now THAT would be a nice attribute for the gang to have while working for Powers they don't trust.
Oh, and I can believe Spike was a Donkey Kong fan - even vampires can't resist the lure of DK - just like I'm sure W&H labs could burn the DK code onto an chip and put in an XBox cartridge (or whatever). It's pirating software, but they're evilllll... (some of them anyway).
Actually, [lech]I'd much prefer to see those marks on Eve.[/lech]. Seriously, I'd bet that Wes could duplicate the effect if he was willing to let himself be tattooed with symbols.
As to the Donkey Kong, I think it actually makes sense for Spike to be told to play video games as a means of retraining his manual dexterity. I can also see him obstinately demanding a Donkey Kong game as the game he'd use.
Great episodes both Smallville and Angel
Smallville: I too rewound the part with the vision of the cape and was tickled at the "you're immortal" line.
Angel: Cordy's departure was excellent writing and all I had in my mind was "What will Buffy say when she finds out?" After all, Cordy was one of the original cast members.
On thinking about it, I'm wondering just how this whole "liasion to the senior partners" gig works vis a vis hooking up with someone actively working against them. We have to assume that 1) Eve was chosen by said partners either before or after meeting Lindsey. If before, well, Lindsey must be *damn* good in bed to convince her to work against the very scary repercussions of going against 'em. If after, one wonders about the partners' background checking ability.
And 2) Um, the partners never noticed Eve entering a particular house and going off their radar completely? Or talking to/having sex with an invisible entity?
On reflection, Eve both being the liasion and working with Lindsey just doesn't add up. At least not yet.
As for the flashback episode next week, all the trailer made me think was "Hey, didn't Spike not know that Angel had a soul when they met up after not seeing each other for years and years back in Buffy, Season 2?" Then again, he also said at the time that Angel was his sire, so it may be time to a little retcon...
I read an interview a couple of weeks back, where they were talking about the Spike/Angel dynamic. Basically, they've seen each other at their worst, so neither one of them wants to believe the other really has a soul, figuring its just some act the other is playing for their own reasons.
Such as, in the Boxer Rebellion episode, Angel is upset about Spike killing the Slayer, but Spike thinks its because Angel is jealous that Spike is coming up in the world, not because he's disgusted by the act. For the WWII episode, Spike may dismiss Angel's heroics for similiar reasons, and be completely ignorant of Angel's possession of a soul.
But they've tweaked the Angel/Spike stuff before. It's apparent from "School Hard" that they're old buddies, but as the season progresses, it becomes apparent that these two characters would never have liked each other much... and they conviently forgot the friendly demenor the two shared in "School Hard".
Well actually in the "flash" of clark's future it looked like the time barrier from early issues of the legion.
and that reminded me that it was about this point in superman's life or maybe a bit into the future of this Clark's life that the legion came to meet him for the first time.
I think it would be kind of neat if they could work some kind of small nod into one of the episodes.
three ordinary looking teenagers, you don't even have to have them do much in the way of powers if you only used Cos, Imra and lightning lad.
they use as much or more spfx for their freaks of the week.
As for Angel, I'm guessing we'll probably find out what kind of creature was in the container in the basement before long and what Lindsay and Eve's overall plan was before the end of the season.
and I second Peter's "DAMN!"
(Oh my god, they killed Cordy! those bastards!)
*sigh*
I've been a bit dissapointed with this season of Angel, I just felt that something was missing. Last night I realized what I was missing, Charisma. I still love the show, but like I said, it's been a bit off for me. Halfway through the episode, I became upset, when Cordila gave Angel the speech of her being tere to help him, I pretty much yelled out loud that Joss and company have Six Sensed us, and that the body in the hospital was hers. Then I see her being physical and touching things and i was happy again, Cordy was indeed back. Than came her final speech about her being on a different road and the phone ringing, my thoughts came back to her being dead. Thank you Mutant Enemy for this extremly well done episode. Damn, they made me tear up, that hasn't happed since the Buffy's mom passed away. Anyway, I truly hope that we haven't seen the last of Lindsey and Eve, it was too easy of an exit for them, and I still believe that the Big Bad this season still might be Gunn, we still don't know the full extant of what W & H put in his head.
Some thoughts on Adam Knight, AKA Bruce Wayne AKA Ian Somerhalder.
Nobody is saying (yet) that Gotham is in Oklahoma.
Adam SAID he was from OK.
Adam SAID he never played a piano like that.
Adam SAID his name is Adam.
"Adam" as Lex is discovering - is a big Liar.
I'm glad they have Lex and Adam squaring off. If He is Bruce, then they're both manipulative rich boys.
The argument that it's too obvious doesn't gibe. I mean the first clues were that his sweatshirt had a 27 on it, for gosh sakes! Not every veiwer is as rabid a comics fan as that. Some are probably still in the dark, so to speak.
Also, this isn't Buffy or Angel, with its incredible red herrings. Vampires?
Smallville is going to keep teasing us with the Bruce angle, until we're ready to burst, then throw a red herring at us, then when we aren't sure, then they'll spring it. Theoretically.
Angel/Buffy work as a "Holy crap, I never saw that coming" factor, while Smallville is more of a "Finally! I was waiting for them to do that" factor.
The syringe could be anything, including part of an investigation by Adam.
If it IS Bruce, I hope there's some rooftop jumping before this arc concludes.
If it isn't Bruce, I would be kind of pissed that it's taking so long, and that they wasted the opportunity.
A Bruce spin-off would be good, too. We could call it, "Birdss-of-Prey: the early years."
(Also, he should keep taking off his shirt. It's um...heroic. Yeah. That's it. Heroic.)
I freeze framed the shot of Lex's computer with Adam Knight's info. It was a "post-operative medical report". I wish I hadn't deleted it from my Tivo so I can say for sure. But it said he's from OK, his security clearance--YES, SECURITY CLEARANCE-- was either 0 or 8. His DOB was n/a as were some other items. That's all that I could find legible in the various freeze-frames that Tivo could muster.
And I agree with Randall, Adam needs to be more "heroic" with that shirt thing. Clark, too. And Jonathan. Not to mention Lana... Damn, where's my BF when I need him???
Daniel
Oh, one not-serious thing: Who was on crack when they decided to have Spike playing Donkey Kong on an X-Box? That was just....stupid.
I just figured that was a joke at the expense of the standard television/movie practice of having characters play the latest state-of-the-art console/computer, and using extremely dated video game audio. There was a recent Computer Store commercial where two guys are playing "the latest games", and the sound effects were from the Atari 2600 Pac-Man.
So, at first, I'm smiling thinking they're doing the usual thing with Spike playing an X-Box while playing old sound effects... then he reveals that he's actually playing the old game on the latest state-of-the-art system. So, two laughs for the price of one... one time, laughing at them; second time, laughing with them.
On Angel:
I really like the character of Lindsay, and the actor that plays him, and it was good to see (as we were reminded) one of Angel's first villains come back for ep. 100, but the character's motivation was severely lacking.
And what was with the taunting Angel when he was down? Nobody's that stupid,and how many times does he have to pull a sword out of his chest before people start to notice that that doesn't kill him?
It was nice to see Doyle mentioned for more than a second, though.
Bring Back Lindsay!
I viewed SMALLVILLE on a recording, so naturally I froze on Lex's laptop. I noticed the security clearance thing, but I figured that was mostly a standard field in the file, which seemed to be a LuthorCorp file. (Or Lex was just viewing the file on a LuthorCorp browser or file viewer. Who's to say that Lionel can't give Bill Gates a run for his money?
One other tidbit (or titbit... did you just call me a tit? And a gormy one at that?) was that his POB was Metropolis. (Or Northropolis... fuzzy VCR freeze frame.)
I think we can safely take it for granted that not every item we learn about Adam is 100% accurate.
eddie
(who is just waiting for everyone to run up and tackle him to the ground and touch him all over.)
Well, I had read some spoilers a few days ago about the ending of the episode. I was kind of sorry to see they were true, but I think it will have a long lasting effect on Angel, which is a good thing I guess. Maybe Cordelia's pep talks will be able to serve as a catalyst to get Angel and company out of W&H.
I really liked seeing that after Spike realized his mistake with attacking Cordelia,\ Angel didn't keep attacking him for very long. It's almost like he's starting (key word is starting) to trust Spike, which is very cool IMO.
Harmony was a riot, and Spike playing videogames. How great was that? Interesting that they showed a X-Box but the sounds and Spike's description were off the old Donkey Kong game (one of the first, if not the first, games featuring Mario.) Did they rerelease that game for the X-Box
I am hoping to hear from Lindsey again sometime in the future. I'd like to know what exactly happens with him and the Sr. Partners.
Haven't seen the episode of Smallville yet (it airs here later tonight - Thursday), so if the following contradicts anything in it, that's why.
The Adam as Bruce Wayne thing just has never scanned right for me. While the show is not, of course, entirely beholden to comics canon, it just smells wrong.
Adam Strange would be a likelier candidate (someone whose background is fairly undefined and who, presumably, has enough independent resources to disappear for days and weeks at a time). Perhaps Adam eventually dabbles in stage magic or illusion, and uses 'Strange' as a stage name.
My favorite wheels-within-wheels theory about who will turn out to be Bruce Wayne, and, eventually, Batman, is ---
The 'maybe dead, maybe not' other son of Lionel Luthor.
Private adoption arranged with a reclusive couple (the Waynes) - either already wealthy or made wealthy by Luthor.
Couple killed by Luthor (for his own twisted reasons) when the child was still very young.
And what if Luthor brought the castle to Smallville, but sent the family retainer who was employed there (Alfred) to watch over the 'other' child?
And, to open a whole different can of worms, isn't it a bit too convenient that the elder Luthor's first name could be pronounced Lion-El?
The script possibilties of that are very, very intriguing.
Re: Smallville. I was wondering if the music that Adam was playing ("Variations on a theme of Paginnini"), was another tribute to the once-and-future guest star Christopher Reeve, since that was used as his character's favorite piece of music in "Somewhere In Time."
Angel:
Spike obviously has a modded Xbox running MAME.
Is it possible that Cordy passed her visions along to Angel with that wonderful kiss at the end? Just like Doyle did to her?
Great to see that clip of Glenn Quinn. The dynamic between Doyle, Cordelia and Angel has never been duplicated.
I loved both Angel and Smallville this week. Wednesday night is becoming my favorite night of the week. I get a fresh batch of comics from the store and two of my favorite shows. I just wish ABC would bring back 'Karen Sisco' and put it on at 10 PM on Wed.
Oh, on the subject of Cordelia, maybe she is going to be a "Whitelighter." This way she can continue to help the innocent. (Well, a man can dream can't he?)
Smallville: As much as I'm hoping that Adam is Bruce Wayne, odds are that it isn't. It's just as possible that it's another person from that mental institute they are using in this season with Lex. Telepathy could explain all the stuff he's done. Still, I'm hoping. Has anyone noticed:
Adam West + Dark Knight= Adam Knight.
Angel: Great send-off for Cordy. Now Boreanaz is the only one from the original season left.
If you mean from Episode 1, then yes, but Wes and Gunn made their first appearances in Season 1, Wes becoming a cast regular pretty much right after Doyle left.
Makes Angel the only Original left even going back to Buffy Season 1, Episode 1 (only regular at least).
And to the poster who said the saw Spoilers that Gunn was to be a bad guy later this season... I hope not, not because Gunn is a character I care about much (I'm sure after watching Season 2 & 3, and then 4 when it hits DVD I'll like him based on what I've seen), but isn't that kind of what happened with Cordie in Season 4 and Willow in Buffy Season 6?
The whole "Oh now, our friend is now our enemy!" is really played at this point...
Randall Kirby posted: Also, this isn't Buffy or Angel, with its incredible red herrings.
Ah, but let's keep in mind that a former BUFFY staff writer, Drew Greenberg, is now a SMALLVILLE staff writer...
Makes Angel the only Original left even going back to Buffy Season 1, Episode 1 (only regular at least).
Actually, Angel was not a regular in the first season of BUFFY. David Boreanaz was credited as a guest star and was not in the opening credits, and didn't appear in every episode. He appeared in seven of the 12 first season episodes -- just over half. He didn't graduate to full cast member -- complete with appearance in the opening credits -- until the start of season 2.
Angel:
Yeah, Spike probably got his modded xbox from Knox. He seems like the kinda guy who would have one of those and/or the ability to modify one.
Smallville:
While I really like the idea of Adam being Bruce Wayne, I am starting to lean more towards him being Lionel's clone. Clues: Says he was "injured in a fire" - some sort of left over memory? - also when he had his nightmare, the said something to the order of "it burns". And as to his mystery skills, maybe the clone has been "programmed" to have these skills. But, by whom and why???
I FORGOT TO TURN THE VCR OFF! NO ANGEL!
Damn.
On Thursday, though, desperate to know what happened with Cordy, I found a full synopsis on the Internet. I read the opening paragraph, a few lines here and there, then, like a kid at Christmas, skipped the little presents for the big one and jumped down to the last few paragraphs.
I'm 42 years old, married, sitting in a law school library and my eyes just welled up. I hadn't felt that way since Anya's speech about what death is on Buffy in reference to Buffy's mom dying. Freaking unbelieveable the power Joss Whedon et al. have given these characters that a few lines about an event brought me to tears. When Buffy started Cordy was a stereotype; by Angel #100 she was as complete a character that you could expect. I never thought I'd care for a character of that mold as I grew to like Cordelia. Just a magnificent job all around.
If Joss Whedon can write X-Men in this manner I may be buying my first X-title since X-Men: The Hidden Years.
As for Charisma Carpenter, she seems to be campaigning for the role of Wonder Woman. She may not have the height, but the role could be cast much worse; besides, she is admitting to enjoying Lynda Carter in the role and it is rare when someone in a modern version of anything finds anything but fault in the older version. Besides, if she isn't even being considered for Lois Lane and Catwoman is out of the picture, then Wonder Woman it is.
Oh, by the way, nexts week's Angel. The Joss-verse shows have a tendency to divert from the traditional story line after a major event, I think to let the audience mull over what the changes said event is going to bring. When there was an overriding story arc through a season, the divergence from that main story was noticeable; without an arc, I think that going to a "Times Past" story of Angel looks to be more than what it is, a way for the audience and creators to catch their collective breaths.
Greg
Juilo, he wasn't? Damn, blows that out of the water then.
How about "The only steadily employed actor/actress in the Buffyverse"?
For people who were upset or downright angry about Cordelia being killed off, several options have sprung up.
There is an online petition at http://wwww.petitiononline.com/ccats85/petition.html
You can go to the WB web site at http://thewb.com/Index/0,7349,,00.html and express your feelings at Angel Feedback ( Feedback is located at the Angel Site) and on the Angel Message Boards ( Angel Message Boards are located under Message Boards). There is a thread that I would particularly recommend that people post on called Official ATS Board Petition: Bring Back Cordy!!!Write a Message to Joss Here where
people can express their feelings to Joss Whedon (I mean, if Mutant Enemy checks out any message boards, you know the WB's message boards will be the ones)but there are many other valuable threads as well. There are a lot of upset people out there!
There is a snail mail address for Joss Whedon. I didn't post this so I'm not 100% sure it's accurate but it's certainly worth a try.
Joss Whedon
c/o Mutant Enemy
PO Box 900
Beverly Hills, Ca. 90213
And finally over at http://www.renewangel.com also known as http://www.supportangel.org (some browsers can connect with one URL but not the other) under the Other Strategies and Ideas Forum, there is a thread called Fixing the Cordy Situation where we're trying to figure out what else we can do. Anybody is welcome, whether you want Cordy back full time,part time or if you just want one episode to fix things so that Cordy is written out in the way that she and her fans deserve.
Scott
Re: Angel as a regular - he wasn't in the full credits, but was a recurring character in the first season.
Even so, let's not forget Harmony. She was present in Buffy's premiere, a recurring character in the first season, and survives to today. So to speak.
As far as Gotham City not being in Oklahoma, it is no more in Oklahoma than Metropolis is in Kansas. In DC, IIRC both are analogs to New York City and are fairly close to it.
The Security Clearance appeared to be a 0 to me. The whole file looked like it was a LutherCorp file, probably showing that the special treatment Adam is receiving is from a LutherCorp project (hopefully not involving meteor rocks).
If Adam is Bruce, then either he's practicing his acting skills or he suffering partial amnesia from something (like trying to save some people from a burning building).
Slight correction to my previous post: Angel Feedback is actually located on Page 2 of the Angel Site at the WB Site. Sorry about that.
Scott
Good point Elizabeth, was she in Buffy S6/Angel S3 or Buffy S7/Angel S4 at all?
While Angel may have been listed in just a guest capacity and only in half of the episodes of the half-season 1, he has at least had a major role from Buffy day 1. I know Harmony ws in every season of Buffy upto season 5, but not familiar enough with Angel Seasons 2-4 yet to recall.
Now I'm trying to remember if Jonathon appeared at all in Season 5...
Final correction (hopefully)
Forgot to mention that you have to register to use the Feedback and Message Board stuff at the WB Site. Sorry about that.
Best wishes,
Scott
I think Cordy's departure was handled beautifully. Looking back, and remembering how shallow and downright mean she was in the first season of BTVS, it was fascinating to watch her grow into Angel's conscience. It was fitting that she returned to inspire him to be the hero he was before joining W&H. I also loved that she left, giving him her blessing and approval to continue the fight from within W&H and that she let him know that the PTB, despite the events of the past two seasons, still haven't abandoned him.
I loved the video of Doyle, cut from the show far to early and the reference to the first episode meeting between Angel and Lindsey. I didn't realize even how much I had missed Cordy's bantar on the show until it was back, and now she has gone on to her next journey.
I am concerned that Gunn is starting to like being the smart guy all of a sudden. Remember when his attitude was "kill all demons and let God sort them out?" Now he's representing them. Weird. I can definitely see him slipping towards the dark side as this season progresses.
This is not a correction. This is a confirmation. Joss Whedon's Snail Mail address is correct.
Scott
I really enjoyed this week's Smallville and agree with PAD's views on it.
One theory of mine that's been in my mind about the Adam character is that (dum dum DUUUUM): he's a clone of Lionel Luthor.
I don't know why, but the whole thing with him knowing martial arts, piano, etc. just screams to me as being "programmed" somehow.
ANGEL: Everything about Wednesday's episode was absolutely on target. It was beautifully plotted, beautifully dialogued, and beautifully acted by all. Special kudos to Boreanz and Carpenter for their scenes together--and another tip of the hat to Ms. Carpenter for being such a classy person and coming back to finish Cordy's arc if it is true that her parting from the show last season was not all that amicable--hmm, perhaps SMG could take a lesson from her?
I also think the "Doyle" scene was a wonderful and classy bow to the late Glenn Quinn by Mutant Enemy--this might be a strange question, but would Quinn's family or beneficiary receive any "residuals" for the late actor's appearance in the show?
Yes, I will miss Cordelia...but I also think that to bring her back could lessen the (recovered)integrity of the character as well as the impact of this story. Unless, maybe, as with the Doyle "cameo," it is done quite a piece down the road.
Mindy
re: Spike playing Donkey Kong on an Xbox...
Consider that PS/2 and XBox are the top grpahics Video Game consoles out there, and Spike is over 100 years old and never played videogames before, it makes a kind of twisted, perverse sense to be playing one of the oldest video games on one of the powerhouse systems of today.
Considering Team Angel's writers senses of humor, it does fit from that perspective.
Somehow I think Grand Theft Auto is a game Spike would have been incredibly into/good at.
Maybe he was losing because he was still getting used to his reattched hands...
What I'd like to know is if Adam is who a lot of persons think he is, why was he having a nightmare about birds? (picked that up using the closed-captioning function).
Forgive the lateness in this reply, but I was slow in catching up with Smallville.
From what I've seen so far on here, let me be one of the few that disagrees with everyone and state that I do not believe Adam is actually Bruce Wayne. I understand how everything that has been revealed so far may lead to that conclusion, but I just don't buy it. Also one clue that no one has mentioned (or at least that I noticed) was that when Adam first goes to shake hands with Lana while in recovery, there is a close up of his hand with his sleeve slightly pulled up and it appears to be revealing some type of tattoo on his wrist. They cut back to their faces and when it shows them actually shaking hands, the sleeve is pulled back down and there is nothing to see. I paused on the scene, but it was too difficult to tell exactly what the tattoo was. Still I believe this was shown for a purpose and will become relevant later when we learn who Adam really is. For some reason my mind screams Android, though that may be because of the Adam from Buffy. Still can anyone say Metallo?
Yes, I will miss Cordelia...but I also think that to bring her back could lessen the (recovered)integrity of the character as well as the impact of this story. Unless, maybe, as with the Doyle "cameo," it is done quite a piece down the road.
Mindy
Got to respectfully disagree. My own feeling is that the episode reestablished the integrity of her character and how fertile it is for further development. I think to ignore that potential, to do nothing with the doors that it so well opened would be to really cheapen the impact of the episode.
Best wishes,
Scott
Question is, even though Cordy's human body has died, are the TPTB merely "upgraded" her to a new form to do more work elsewhere, or has she finally reached her "Heaven" (and Willow better not go jerking anyone else out of their personal Heaven's after Season 6). (Frankly, that's what I consider the most evil thing she did S6, Warren had it coming, and to a lesser extent so did Andrew and Johnathon, and another quite frankly, could the police have really kept them long with their knowledge of magick and demons? Or, would time in jail merely make them more hardcore evil than the softcore, unthinking of the consequences evil they were?)
Closed-captioning is funny that way, sometimes. He was screaming "It burns" during the nightmare (parents killed in a fire, remember), not something about 'birds.'
"few" who disagree? I think the majority here disagree that it's Bruce.
It's Bruce.
According to information on upcoming episodes at http://www.kryptonsite.com/ it is NOT Bruce.
Question is, even though Cordy's human body has died, are the TPTB merely "upgraded" her to a new form to do more work elsewhere, or has she finally reached her "Heaven" (and Willow better not go jerking anyone else out of their personal Heaven's after Season 6). (Frankly, that's what I consider the most evil thing she did S6, Warren had it coming, and to a lesser extent so did Andrew and Johnathon, and another quite frankly, could the police have really kept them long with their knowledge of magick and demons? Or, would time in jail merely make them more hardcore evil than the softcore, unthinking of the consequences evil they were?)
Interesting. Cordy coming back in a new body, one that would look like her old one (because,hey, she's Cordy and it doesn't matter how evolved she gets,there are some character traits she's never going to let go of and vanity's definitely one of them...) but one with certain...improvements...I like it. That would certainly be one good way out of this (Her being in Heaven seems a bit more unlikely since she's already been there and was bored out of her mind...).
BTW, I do have to say in Willow's defense, what she did to Buffy was unintentional and well-meaning. Certainly not the smartest thing she ever did but it wasn't evil.
Scott
Consider that PS/2 and XBox are the top grpahics Video Game consoles out there, and Spike is over 100 years old and never played videogames before, it makes a kind of twisted, perverse sense to be playing one of the oldest video games on one of the powerhouse systems of today.
Here's something that I don't think anyone has thought of: Aren't the sound FX of video games proprietary? Maybe Spike was playing Donkey Kong simply because the sound FX of an older game are cheaper than havng to pay for the license fees of say, "Grand Theft Auto?"
Julie, although this board freely discusses spoilers from past episodes, spoilers from future episodes should be preceded by a warning.
I'm going to pretend that the folks at Kryptonsite don't know what they're talking about, which may be the case anyway. Creative teams have been known to lead fans astray, both through red herrings in the show itself, and though spreading false rumors and previews to fan sites.
It's so much more fun to speculate about whether Adam is Bruce than it is to know, at least until the question is answered in the show itself!
I dunno Scott, going through all the trouble she went to to obtain the spell and the components, I wouldn't say bringing Buffy back from the dead was "unintentional". :)
An while it may not have been intentionally evil, I'd have to say pulling someone out of Heaven is evil, despite ignorance of the true position of one's soul Heaven-\Hell-wise... You'd think Willow would have tried to find out where Buffy's soul had gone first...
Cordy has already been to "Heaven", what season was that, hopefully two or three since it's a while before Angel S4 comes out on DVD...
Actually, I was thinking maybe Cordy was working on a whole new level, extra-dimensional when I mentioned " a new form" for her. Sort of the TPTB "graduated" her from the human world to a "higher" spiritual level.
Although I'd love to see her in a bizarre Al Calavici-like role, as she moves around helping convince random people to join the battle against evil. Cordy the hologram/ghost with her attitude and style trying to convince everyday people to do the unusual and fight the evil man was not meant to know....
Quantumn Leap meets Buffy/Angel...
Now that's a cross-over I'd have loved to see. But who would Sam have leapt into? Spike would be extremely entertaining.
"Al, why don't I have a heartbeat? And what's with these fangs?"
Now that's a cross-over I'd have loved to see. But who would Sam have leapt into? Spike would be extremely entertaining.
The important question: What would he see in the mirror?
I dunno Scott, going through all the trouble she went to to obtain the spell and the components, I wouldn't say bringing Buffy back from the dead was "unintentional". :)
An while it may not have been intentionally evil, I'd have to say pulling someone out of Heaven is evil, despite ignorance of the true position of one's soul Heaven-\Hell-wise... You'd think Willow would have tried to find out where Buffy's soul had gone first...
Cordy has already been to "Heaven", what season was that, hopefully two or three since it's a while before Angel S4 comes out on DVD...
Actually, I was thinking maybe Cordy was working on a whole new level, extra-dimensional when I mentioned " a new form" for her. Sort of the TPTB "graduated" her from the human world to a "higher" spiritual level.
Although I'd love to see her in a bizarre Al Calavici-like role, as she moves around helping convince random people to join the battle against evil. Cordy the hologram/ghost with her attitude and style trying to convince everyday people to do the unusual and fight the evil man was not meant to know....
Quantumn Leap meets Buffy/Angel...
Now that's a cross-over I'd have loved to see. But who would Sam have leapt into? Spike would be extremely entertaining.
"Al, why don't I have a heartbeat? And what's with these fangs?"
What I meant was that Willow had no intention of pulling Buffy out of heaven. She genuinely believed that Buffy was in hell. And,while I certainly agree that Willow wasn't behaving in a very smart manner,evil to me has always implied certain,definite malicious motives which Willow didn't have. One has to have a clue to be evil (which I guess explains why Harmony isn't.).
Cordy was complaining about the peace and quiet of heaven in the first couple of Season 4 episodes when she was a floating head ( I think we can assume that that was,in fact, Cordy and she had not yet been possessed by Jasmine. Floating head Cordy had no idea how to get back to Earth and Jasmine did.).
Cordy as Al? While I'd want her to get solid eventually, I must admit that does sound like it would be fun for a while if for no other reason then to see her struggle to figure what to do when she can't just whack Angel upside the head for being too broody...
Best wishes,
Scott
Scott, I know Willow thought she was pulling Buffy out of "some horrible hell dimentsion" was I think how she described it, but with all the trouble Willow went through to obtain the sacred, one of a kind artifact of Osiris and researching the ressurection spell, she never once thought of trying to find a spell that would let her try to find out if Buffy was in "Heaven", "Hell", or "Limbo"?
Also, if Willow holds any true religious belief, wouldn't ressurection be rather evil whether you were pulling the person out of heaven or hell? The disturbing of the "eternal soul" from its final resting place? (and all this soul talk from an atheist no less)
Won't get to see Angel 4 till they release it on DVD. When FX finally got off its butt and showed Once More with Feeling from Buffy S6, I had already downloaded it off the net and seen it. I dunno how much the episode was hacked on the D/L, but the version FX showed was hacked to hell, so I can't really watch the repeats on TV anymore...
It's officail Joss told the cast and crew Angel is ending source zap2it
With the ratings since Jan 1 I expected it.
The WB has confirmed it.
http://thewb.com/PressRelease/Index/0,8341,156980,00.html
It's seems that the WB is interested in reviving "Dark Shadows", probably as a night time soap. I don't want to sound cynical, but the reasoning might be that a new, relatively cheaper show might be more profitable.
On the other hand, perhaps it might be time to suggest that recasting the role of Buffy Summers for a fairwell appearence on Angel is not as unconceivable as it might have been yesterday.