Between barreling through the adaptation of the second issue of "Negima," and the CBLDF gathering, I've been missing or fallen behind on television. I know, I know...where the hell are my priorities. I'm still behind, but I'll write up on what I've seen or at least remember seeing and will try to get current.
ANGEL: The Nazi episode was fun for a change of pace. I'm not entirely sure it squares with Spike's first appearance, but let's face it: It was Spike's first appearance. Despite the pleasant fiction that the creators of TV adventure series have some grand, master plan at work to which they adhere with utter fealty, more often than not there's a sizable degree of just winging it. I did feel sorry for poor Marster's hair...first bleached, now blackened. I hope it doesn't all fall out by the time he's 40. Unfortunately, the episode just seemed to taper off, the climax wasn't particularly original, and I hate seeing the resourceful Fang Gang reduced to a bunch of hostages.
Now the puppet episode, on the other hand...I'm ashamed to admit I thought it was (no pun intended) a stitch. Really, is it any more preposterous that Angel was changed into a puppet, considering we've seen Buffy turned invisible, transformed into a rat, Amy turned into a rat, Willow turned into Warren, plus there really *is* established continuity for someone being transformed into a puppet? (Remember Sid?) Everything from Spike's pure delight at Angel's predicament to Angel dropping his guard and almost getting the stuffing ripped out of him to the ultimate, priceless moment of Angel transforming into a vampire puppet...I thought it was great. Even more impressive to me was that they seemed to anticipate every single fan reaction. When the kids are lying there with huge grins evoking the notion that the Joker was behind it, bang, a comment is made to that effect. Even more savvy, there was rumbling before the episode even aired that this was a "Jumping the Shark" installment. Foreseeing that, there's a line bitching about how lousy the last several seasons of "Happy Days" was, the show from which the (frankly by now overused) phrase originated.
I should also mention that Kathleen makes great muppet-esque puppets. So anyone who's interested in hiring her to custom make a facsimile of the Angel puppet, drop me an e-mail and I'll forward your request on to her. It won't be cheap, but you'll certainly be the hit of your next Buffy con.
SMALLVILLE--I have not yet seen last week's, but I did see the week before. At long last, Pete Ross takes center stage, and even winds up bitching about how he has no life outside of Clark, which is pretty much what *I've* been bitching about. (And no, I'm not claiming cause and effect, obviously, just so no one thinks I'm egomaniacal to think my comments here impact on the TV series.)
Clark's concern over Pete's new hobby is understandable. Car racing? In Smallville? The town where a family out for a Sunday drive at thirty miles an hour have a 90% chance of winding up flipped over in a ditch somewhere? The vehicular accident center of North America, *that's* where they're drag racing? Good God, Pete's lucky he didn't flip his car before the end of the teaser.
However, neither Kath nor I was ecstatic about the ending, but for markedly different reasons. Kath felt that Pete was done a disservice. That he had shown character growth and independence, but it was tossed away in his final act speech to Clark in which he essentially grovels and wants things to go back to the way they were. I see what she was saying, but that didn't bother me so much. I think Pete felt incredibly guilty, and not just because he'd ignored Clark's advice early on, but because Clark had been driven to do some shady stuff in order to save Pete's hash.
I, however, was far more bothered by Clark's reaction. I understand that Clark is not yet the full hero that he will become. That there's a learning curve. But he seemed to put the blame for the death of the bad guy squarely on himself and Pete--and mostly Pete--when the fact is that the bad guy's fate could have been avoided any number of times by the bad guy himself. He brought it on himself, and although Clark's mea culpa's are understandable, Clark's dismissal of Pete--I dunno--lessens him. Consider how Jonathan bent over backwards to absolve Clark of blame for his heart attack even though Clark really *was* the main reason for it. His father's actions should have been a major lesson in compassion for Clark; instead he takes Pete, already suffering from guilt, and rubs his nose in it. For the first time, I really, really didn't like Clark.
Now if that's what they were going for, then they succeeded. Smallville is, after all, about character arcs and learning curves. And Clark forgiving Pete may have seemed the safe, predictable way to go. But I think there were ways it could have been handled that could have shown a rift between the two friends while not having Clark so thoroughly humiliate this friend who has been there for Clark so many times in the past...especially when Clark's own father had just let him off the hook for a life-threatening medical condition due entirely to Clark's three month long Red K jag.
PAD
Posted by Peter David at February 22, 2004 10:55 AM | TrackBack | Other blogs commentingActually, he's already 40. According to the IMDB, He was born in 1962, and according to his own web page, he shares my birthday 8-20, so he's already hit the big 40 with his tortured hair surviving...
What's the price on an Angel mini-muppet? And can you post a pic on your blog?
Another continuity note - The military man who "recruited" Angel identified himself as belonging to (I don't remember the exact words) "a government Initiative".
And of course, the best lines
"Spike ... You're a nazi?"
"No. I ate one"
What about the last two episodes of Charmed? I was curious on what you thought of them, as that is the only show you usually do that I watch.
Angel: You make a good point about the fan reactions, PAD. The puppet episode was almost telepathic in how satisfying it was. The other one they did that I was wondering if anyone would comment on was the puppet's resemblance to Bert (of "and Ernie") when Angel pulled his nose off. The only one they missed was another Bert reference, when Nina asked him what puppets eat, I wanted the answer to be "I have this craving for... oatmeal." Of course, that's a bit more obscure than the B&E "Got your nose" routine; it falls in with the Bert's obsessions with pidgeons and saddle shoes, and Bert never sang a song about those that made Billboard's list.
It even represented a slight return to what came before, in the form of Angel simply being a demon-slaying badass. I laughed my ass off at the climactic battle scene and the dramatic discussion that preceded the commercial break not because they looked absurd, but because the puppet behaved like David Boreanaz; the broadsword slung over his back in the slo-mo walking scene, the puppet perched on top of the roof of the little puppet house, the dialogue even -- it was all classic Angel, only cute. I mean, how adorable was it when Angel in his "Dark Avenger" pose said to the lead puppet, "No; it's time for me to kick your ass all the way back to hell" It was more like the first episode of a weird new spin-off rather than a fifth-season episode. Watching the Angel puppet get pissed while "Smile Time" was on was simply hysterical, as was his frustration with his fingers. Also, I bet the stagehand who got to throw the Angel puppet at his desk to hide from Nina had a lot of fun. Why do I get the feeling they lined up everybody in the crew, pointed the camera at the desk, and everybody took turns heaving that puppet across the room until they got a shot that looked good in editing?
As for the Nazi episode, I enjoyed it, but it hasn't earned "Keep Until I Delete" status on my Tivo the way "Smile Time" did. I got a kick out of, "Angelus, Nostroyev, Prince of Lies; Prince of Lies, Nostroyev, Angelus." For the most part, there wasn't much to it, though. Unlike "Smile Time", which did everything I wanted it to, "Why We Fight" just kept doing what I expected it to. Of course, it kind of spoiled itself pretty early on, since aside from Angel actually turning the guy himself (the only curve thrown me by the episode) allusions were made to everything that was going to happen. Maybe if the emotional turmoil had been stronger; when we reached the end I realized the antagonist was just a crybaby vampire.
Incidentally, it occurs to me that turning someone into a vampire should have made it into Faith's vision-quest with Angelus; I'd think that was something even more guilt-wracking than eating a dying man.
Another continuity note - The military man who "recruited" Angel identified himself as belonging to (I don't remember the exact words) "a government Initiative".
The "Human Research Initiative."
And, along those same lines, what was the Nazi research the Initiative wanted? That's right...a means to modify and control the behavior of vampires with some sort of implant.
My reading of Clark's reaction to Pete at the end was that Clark couldn't forget that Pete had all but threatened Clark with his secret early in the episode. When Clark found out about the racing and brought up that it's illegal, Pete immediately brought up Clark's secret. That alone could have damaged things to an almost irreparable degree. It left Clark wondering if he should have ever told Pete, and questioning if he could just go back to pretending that everything was the way it used to be. Also, for the first time it had me reconsidering how I felt about Clark NOT confiding in Lex.
Up until then I'd seen that as a character flaw in Clark, and one that he'd reinforced by not coming clean with Lex after the too-convenient electroshock therapy-induced amnesia. I could always understand not trusting Lana or Chloe with the secret, but Lex is the one person in the series with any conception of what it's like to weild enormous amounts of power in one form or another. He's also, arguably, suffered the most among Clark's friends as a result of Clark's secret.
After the "Fast & Furious" episode with Pete, though, it's easier for me to see that rather than forming a lasting bond between Clark and Lex (something, of course, which isn't going to happen in this dramatic structure with all its play at being a prelude to Superman) it could easily compromise Clark. Still, if there's someone on the show that I, were I Clark Kent, would tell the secret to, it would be Lex.
Angel: I found the submarine episode a hard pill to swallow. Very had thing to admit after the subsequent puppet show, which I did enjoy. First off, they refer to the business of the previous episode (Lindsay and Eve), but not a word or even an unspoken pause of silence about Cordy's death? Then we have this history about the government tracking Angel for some time, the circumstances in which he boards the sum with weights around his ankles, and the ridiculous ease in which the rest of the gang is incapacitated (in their own turf no less). Eh. The episode just had too many irritations for me to fully enjoy it. I did find the idea of Angel imparting a fraction of his soul to another vampire fascinating, though obviously it didn't make much of a difference in a Vamp's behavior save for substituting joy for apathy when causing mayhem, or so we were told.
PAD: The Nazi ep was Spike's first appearance? I don't get it. He's been seen much earlier in history (boxer rebellion, etc.). Or are you referring to the hairstyle and calling himself Spike?
The Smallville ep had this other major plausibility issue (other than aftermarket Kryptonite superchargers -- just how much of this stuff is there?) How many Smallville young men and women can afford souped-up cars for racing? A reference to it being a Metropolis racing clique coming out to Smallville for its open roads would have made it easier to swallow.
It is going to be hard to talk about the "Velocity" episode without bring in some of what happened this past week, but I'm going to try.
"Velocity" was good because it did give Pete a chance to shine, but it also showed something else--Pete's immaturity (and Clark's as well). I agree with PD's point that Pete has been there for Clark in the past, but always in a very immature sort of way. For Pete, knowing Clark's secret is more like some childish secret society. Even though Pete has kept Clark's secret, he has said in the past that the secret eats him up and that he wants to shout it to everyone he sees. "Look at what my best friend can do!" Pete, I think, has represented all of us who read comics as a kid and wanted to bwe best friends with the heroes because of what they could do.
In this episode, Pete was forced to confront this. My best friend can do almost anything, so he can get me out of whatever trouble I get into. I have a guardian angel hovering over me. Clark you're stong break into another ATM for me. You've done it before. Why not for a nobler purpose and save a friend? Pete was forced in this episode to confront his own immaturity about himself and his relationship to Clark. Their friendship will be stronger for it, but is has been bent tremdously at the moment.
As for Clark, part of his reaction was understandable. In relation to what has happened this season, now another friend has betrayed him. He has just made peace with Chloe about her spying on him for Lionel, now his secret was almost used by Pete for his own gain. Clark may have seemed cruel, but it is more his own sense of lonliness taking over again. How can he tell anyone what he can do if they always see him as someone to be used. Clark is hurt. He has no one to he can really talk to about what he feels. He is also a teenager whose emotions are much stronger now then ever. He desperately needs someone other then his parents he can confide in but he has no one. Those same emotions are also driving why he blames himself for Dante's death. He is ruled more by his emotions now then his head. As he matures he will realize that Dante did cause his own death, but Clark has matured enough yet to divorce his own feelings of guilt over what happened from the reality of the situation.
The question that is slowly beign asked is can he trust with his secret who wouldn't somehow abuse or misuse it? Right now the only ones in the series who have not abused Clark because of his powers are his parents and Lana? Yes, she wants to know what he is hiding. She wants to know why he can't be honest with her. However, in relation to Chloe and Pete, she seems to be the only concerned with him, not what he can do. Why won't she tell him about the problems with Adam. Because she knows what he will do. She doesn't want that from him
That's why last week's episode becomes so interesting. Clark feels that he can only be honest with someone who has a secret as well, thus he goes out with this week's freak of the week. In the end, she betrays his ideals (and other things which can wait for you next roundup). At the end of the episode Clark says he can't share his secret with Lana and the question it left me with was, why not? Except for that one moment of weakness when she wouldn't get on the motorcycle with him( an orphen's fear of abandoment rising to the surface in her, which if she had been able to overcome probably would have brought Clark back sooner. Does anyone think that even for a second, Clark would have put on the kryptonite ring if Lana had been on the cycle with him?) she seems to be the only friend who doesn't want anything from him but honesty. The next two episodes are going to be intersting.
joelfinkle: I suspect PAD was referring to Spike's first appearance in "School Hard" where he and Angel greet each other with hugs and pats on the back like old buddies. Something that doesn't seem too likely if the last time they met before that ended with Angel booting Spike out of a sub. Then again, pretty much none of the flashbacks show a buddy/buddy relationship between the two.
Angel: I found the submarine episode a hard pill to swallow. Very had thing to admit after the subsequent puppet show, which I did enjoy. First off, they refer to the business of the previous episode (Lindsay and Eve), but not a word or even an unspoken pause of silence about Cordy's death? Then we have this history about the government tracking Angel for some time, the circumstances in which he boards the sum with weights around his ankles, and the ridiculous ease in which the rest of the gang is incapacitated (in their own turf no less). Eh. The episode just had too many irritations for me to fully enjoy it. I did find the idea of Angel imparting a fraction of his soul to another vampire fascinating, though obviously it didn't make much of a difference in a Vamp's behavior save for substituting joy for apathy when causing mayhem, or so we were told.
> At the end of the episode Clark says he can't share his secret with Lana and the question it left me with was, why not?
During the episode in which the freak of the week claimed to be an alien (_Visitor_), Clark seized on that to ask Lana how she'd feel if the kid actually turned out to be an alien. Her response was a bit negative (she'd be freaked out and never completely comfortable with him). I would think that would discourage him from, well, telling her that he was an alien.
The only thing I hated about the Angel Nazi ep was the spectacular potential that was completely wasted in the last act. Navy-boy, to my knowledge, remains the ONLY person to be turned by Angel after he had a soul. They raised the point that Navy-boy felt guilt and other non-demony feelings, but then he's killed a second later. He could have been the one sore spot in Angel's past that couldn't be blamed on Angelus.
Meanwhile, in Smallville's "Velocity", Clark kills again! I know he's only supposed to be, like, thirteen or something, but he's done enough that he should no longer be quite so stupid. He's in a wherehouse full of cars that RUN on friggin Kryptonite, turns his back on the henchmen, and says to the bad guy: "The race is off." First of all...the RACE is OFF? He's trying to kill Pete, you say the RACE is off? Clark should have broken every face in that room in a second and been after Pete the next second. "The race is off." Idiot. So he gets coldcocked AGAIN and is forced to rely on the brilliant strategem of knocking the engine out of a drag racer at 90 per. And thus another name is crossed off the rogue's gallery list...
SEAN
Re "Nazi" Angel: Like a lot of others, I felt the ending was a bit weak. On the other hand, the lines where Angel says "I don't want to end up trapped at the bottom of the ocean" and Spike replies "I don't want to be experimented on by the government" absolutely killed me. Ok, it wasn't as great as the puppet-pummelling Spike got, but it was up there.
PAD: The Nazi ep was Spike's first appearance? I don't get it. He's been seen much earlier in history (boxer rebellion, etc.). Or are you referring to the hairstyle and calling himself Spike?
No, I was referring to his first televised appearance in "School Hard." There are some continuity glitches in it due to subsequent events (not the least of which is Spike referring to Angel as his sire, and how he looked up to Angel as his "Yoda," none of which was supported by later flashback episodes.)
PAD
RE: Angel
Back in Season 2 of Angel, didn't he specifically tell Darla he'd not turned anyone since he got his soul, and they weren't sure what would happen? While it's interesting to learn, now, that his soul somehow affects the process, the continuity slip annoyed me a bit.
Back in Season 2 of Angel, didn't he specifically tell Darla he'd not turned anyone since he got his soul, and they weren't sure what would happen?
True, but on the other hand, consider the alternative dialogue:
"But Darla, I haven't sired anyone since I got my soul back...except for,y'know, that soldier in the Nazi submarine, but those were extreme circumstances and all the men would have died otherwise, and anyway, I don't really like to think about it."
PAD
In Re: what PAD just said -
On top of that, he'd also have had to throw in a "I kicked him out of a submarine ten minutes after I turned him so I don't actually have a clue what happened there anyway" on top of that, making it even more awkward, in that particular context.
I loved "Smile Time" too.
I'm just waiting to hear if some other network has picked up "Angel". WB is O-U-T. They're done with "Angel". I doubt it will be TNT (they wouldn't want to handle the budget) but UPN is possibly a good bet.
Seems simple enough... All they would have to do is use the old "Buffy" contracts as templates... and enjoy the ride.
After all, they will actually be getting a Whedon show [Angel] that is hitting its' stride-- not one [Buffy] that was rapidly sliding into a creative abyss.
UPN's picking "Angel" up would also save us from the possibilty of having to watch some half-hearted, 5 minute turn from Sarah Michelle Gellar-Prinze... Which will probably only seemed shoved into one of the final episodes-- (if it ever happens)-- anyway.
Plus the UPN will love their NEW star... Mild mannered, easy to work with and-- dare I say it-- press AND fan friendly!
Anybody who has read Boreanaz's very funny comment about hoping to do a "Marmaduke" movie someday will know exactly what I am talking about.
Anyway, I've got my fingers crossed. Joss has pulled rabbits out of hats before... And I hope "Angel" continues.
Re: Angel/Darla. The exact quote was:
Angel: "Maybe it would be different. - We don't know. - Maybe, uh... because, you know, I have a soul - if-if I did bite you..."Darla: "No."
Angel: "We don't know what it would do to you."
Nothing about "I've never turned anyone since I got a soul" and, frankly, he DIDN'T know what'd happen, since he didn't find out what happened with whatshisname until now.
> Incidentally, it occurs to me that turning someone into a vampire should have made it into Faith's vision-quest with Angelus; I'd think that was something even more guilt-wracking than eating a dying man.
Difference was, Angel could rationalise that, since had he not done it, everyone else would have died. Nothing bar a temporary satation of his hunger was achieved in the café, and the man might have been saved had Angel called for an ambulence/taken him to a hospital. Maybe not, but that he scorned the possibility of saving a life in favour of filling his belly - THAT's why that affected him more.
> I'm just waiting to hear if some other network has picked up "Angel". WB is O-U-T. They're done with "Angel". I doubt it will be TNT (they wouldn't want to handle the budget) but UPN is possibly a good bet.
> Seems simple enough... All they would have to do is use the old "Buffy" contracts as templates... and enjoy the ride.
Actually, I seem to recall a UPN spokesman saying something along the lines of "Had we known then what we know now, we wouldn't have picked BtVS up."
The Nazi episode was fun for a change of pace. I'm not entirely sure it squares with Spike's first appearance
If one were to get all anal-retentive about the continuity, they'd note that it didn't really jibe with Angel's early appearances either. When Angel told Buffy of the curse in Season One's "Angel", he said he hadn't fed on a human since then... which has been contradicted time and time again, this episode being among the latest. Of course, you can just say he lied to her... but that would be wrong :)
But I did think they hit *most* of the continuity points with Spike this time out. He acts fairly chummy with Angel (mirroring his attitude in "School Hard"), and he doesn't twig to Angel having a soul. Angel letting Spike live at the end seemed a bit forced, even though they went out of their way to reenforce the notion that Angel wasn't heroic in the slightest back then. Seems the only reason he gave Spike the chance to live through the encounter was that he didn't give Angel too much grief, unlike the other two vamps.
how he looked up to Angel as his "Yoda,"
They seemed to touch on it in the Drusilla episode this season. While Dru turned him, it was Angel that showed him the ropes and turned him into a real monster.
The sire bit is a complete loss. I think ME tried to say that the sire of your sire was your sire also. That's right up there with the conflicting ages of Angel in continuity glitches.
Here is a link to COMICON topic RE: HOPE FOR WB'S ANGEL, which is in turn a link to a petition site which has fifty thousand 'signatures" thus far.
http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=009899
Angel: I enjoyed both episodes, but the Nazi ep did leave a few things sour in my mouth, all of which have been touched here already. The puppet ep was great, though.
Smallville: I thought the Fast and Furious ep was full of plot holes and garbage I couldn't accept. First of all, the whole Bruce Wayne thing is officially negated. That just sucked, but, still, writers never intended him to be, so, eh, whatever. But the whole racing thing? Pete apparently doing this for weeks and no one noticing? Pete being forced into a "bad boy" role just because was just annoying, and predicted here, I believe. Then the bad guy dies, with a witness, and Clark and Pete somehow get off even though the Sheriff was breathing down all their necks earlier? Just...too many issues not closed off at the end. A poor episode all around.
I enjoyed the Angel puppet episode... (Spike: "Look at the wee little puppet man!")but what I liked the most, aside from Vampire puppet Angel, was Gunn selling his soul to get his law knowledge back.
I find it strange that the Senior Partners let him lose it, and I wonder what effect it will have later in the season (as the guy who gave him the final implant wanted Gunn to get some mystical item through customs).
And Fred and Wes finally hooked up!
The Angel sub episode was... ok...
And did Angel actually tell anyone that Cordy died?
Regarding Smallville "Velocity"... the thing that bothered me most about the ending is how Clark goes up to the bad guy as says "You put a bomb in Pete's car!", before getting stuffed in the trunk. He couldn't just tell Pete to stay under 100 or the car will blow, figuring that Dante wouldn't be near Pete's car knowing it would go boom?
But as for pete wanting Clark to do something a lil foul to get the money, Pete did catch a beating because of Clark. Clark made things worse, the least he could do was make things better. Pete's overdone apology is what upset me at the end.
> I find it strange that the Senior Partners let him lose it, and I wonder what effect it will have later in the season (as the guy who gave him the final implant wanted Gunn to get some mystical item through customs).
> And Fred and Wes finally hooked up!
Put these two together with the preview for next week, and remember Entropy... :(
Matt - Agreed. The car race episode of SMALLVILLE seemed, you should pardon the expression, 'rushed'. The end, with the death of the bad guy just fading into the distance didn't make much sense. With Clark's fingerprints all over things and his prints probably being on record from the time he wound up in jail, he definitely should be spending quite a bit of time explaining things to an already suspicious sherrif.
Angel, Puppet ep:
The whole bit with Gunn selling out to get back what he'd lost...I believe that he didn't think the situation through, but I can understand that. I was going to make a comparison to a strung-out junky but the think the creepy implant guy hit it on the nose: Flowers for Algernon. Especially with the main character of FfA being named Charlie. The horror of that story is that Charlie remembers that he was once a mental titan, but has gone back to being retarded.
The irony is that I think that Gunn was lied to. I think Gunn was supposed to get the permanent package from the beginning, but Implant Guy used Gunn's (highly predictable) desparation as leverage on one of Angel's inner circle. If Gunn had gone to the Senior Partners, I imagine that Implant Guy would be eating his own entrials about now. Of course, that might not have gotten Gunn his implant back, so I can still understand Gunn's choice. I suppose that makes it even more tragic.
ANGEL: The basic retcon of the Angel/Spike relationship is that it's always been fractious. That's not what the second season Buffy episodes imply. In School Hard, Spike *embraces* Angel when he sees him (hardly the reaction of someone who had been abandoned at sea). And he's delighted when Angel loses his soul and returns to the fold. Things fall apart once Angel starts horning in on Dru and treating Spike like crap, something you get the impression he's only doing because Spike can't defend himself.
SMALLVILLE: I have to disagree with PAD. I found Clark's reaction to Pete quite reasonable. Yes, his father had a heart attack as a result of his actions but Clark screwed up as a result of tremendous pressure upon him -- his uncertain destiny (perhaps to rule the world), the guilt he felt for the loss of his unborn sibling, and the loss of Lana and anyone who got close to him. It's enough to make a teen break. Pete just behaved like an ass for no reason. He feels like he's in Clark's shadow? Clark would love to have Pete's uncomplicated life. Clark doesn't get to shine because of his powers -- in fact, it's quite the opposite. If Pete had half a brain, he would see what a burden Clark's abilities are.
Clark has serious issues to worry about -- Lionel Luthor for one -- and he doesn't have time to deal with Pete behaving like a spoiled brat.
Why do people have a problem with Gunn's implant being temporary? Do you really think the Senior Partners are above lying and cheating? They gave Gunn a taste of the good stuff, and when he lost it, he wanted it back. This has allowed the Senior Partners (through the surgeon) to begin corrupting Gunn. Does anyone believe the Senior Partners handed W&H LA over to Angel and Co, as a reward for taking out Jasmine? No, it was an excuse. They're trying a new tactic for stopping/convering Angel, since they want him on their side for the coming Apocalpyse (and since no prophecy in the Buffyverse [except the fake one] has ever not happened as everything was prophezied, they know they can't just kill him). Knox may have been their attempt at getting to Fred. Robo-Dad may have been an attempt at Wesley. The whole ploy is an attempt to corrupt Angel. And this ploy at Gunn corrupts Gunn, thus undermining Angel (plus the whole corruption is part of evil's standard gig anyway, and who better to corrupt than Champions).
Slick: I find it strange that the Senior Partners let him lose it, and I wonder what effect it will have later in the season (as the guy who gave him the final implant wanted Gunn to get some mystical item through customs).
It doesn't seem at all strange to me. After all, you can't bring the hero over to the dark side just by asking him to; you have to seduce him. You've got to show him the glamourous life of evil, give him a taste of it, then take it away. It's all about temptation: "What does he have" vs. "What does he want?"
David Hunt: The whole bit with Gunn selling out to get back what he'd lost...I believe that he didn't think the situation through, but I can understand that. I was going to make a comparison to a strung-out junky but the think the creepy implant guy hit it on the nose: Flowers for Algernon. Especially with the main character of FfA being named Charlie. The horror of that story is that Charlie remembers that he was once a mental titan, but has gone back to being retarded.
That is absolutely what I got. Flowers for Algernon was probably the best analogy for it, only with an epilogue where Charlie gets to sell his soul to get it back.
The irony is that I think that Gunn was lied to. I think Gunn was supposed to get the permanent package from the beginning, but Implant Guy used Gunn's (highly predictable) desparation as leverage on one of Angel's inner circle. If Gunn had gone to the Senior Partners, I imagine that Implant Guy would be eating his own entrials about now. Of course, that might not have gotten Gunn his implant back, so I can still understand Gunn's choice. I suppose that makes it even more tragic.
I don't think he was lied to; as I see it, the Senior Partners wanted Gunn to become dependant on his implant. After all, how better to turn a guy who grew up fighting vampires and demons?
The Pete and the Furious (Smallville)
I thought there were several groaners; here's the list:
1- Clark: "Are you telling me that this sucker's nuclear ?!?"
Pete: "Hey, hey, hey - keep rolling, keep rolling there ! No, no, no. This sucker's electrical, but I need a kryptonite nuclear reaction to generate the 1.21 gigawatts of electricity I need !"
2- Clark "borrowing" Lex's Porche? ...Come on! It's like saying "It's not stealing if you plan to give it back!" Today's moral fiber at work folks! Has no one ever suggested to Clark, he should use his abilities to earn money instead of borrowing it. Let’s see, he could be a bouncer, a real fast paperboy, maybe even help out in construction sites, or paint houses or, or, (and I know this is a stretch…) HELP PICK CORN! I mean, there’s got to be a farm nearby somewhere.
3- Oh, here’s another… I think I would be a little on edge if my father was in the hospital and my best friend almost ran my mother over!
4- And finally, how come Pete “The Boss” isn’t in jail? I mean, is it just me, or did they leave the scene of a major vehicle accident? Man, good thing his mom is a judge! Any other guy would’ve had their Driver’s License Suspended (just for the street racing and the gambling).
Sure, I know it all could’ve been explained away; and the evidence would’ve supported their story… But they didn’t show it. Instead we got to see Clark Kent shrug off the accident (dead body in plain sight, and all) while Pete motioned like “we should get out of here”. Sorry, but that was not the responsible outcome I was looking for. That was bad.
Then again, I have to wonder why Pete’s parents didn’t notice or care about all the bruises he got the day before.
Nazi Yellow Submarine (Angel)
It was fun. I liked it. But I don’t think an army of Vampires would be terribly effective. I mean, the way I see it, most of our weapons can still blow their heads off. Plus, our troops could make great advances during their daytime campaigns. Just a thought.
Quick question… I figured that the Prince of Darkness was based on the Dracula from original silent film. Was the Destroyer based on Vlad the Impaler? Just a question
As for Spike and Angel getting/not getting along… I figured that, since Angel followed Spike out of the sub, they both would’ve had plenty of time to get things off their chest as they swam back to the states. No biggie.
Except, I was wondering… According to Buffy continuity, Angel got his soul back in 1898; and Spike killed a slayer during Boxer Rebellion in 1900. Does that mean that Angel was good at the time? Or is that one of the continuity glitches everybody talks about?
Greg the Bunny (Angel)
I loved this episode. Specially the part about muppets having short tempers.
My question is: why didn’t Gunn ask Angel for a new chip? Or go to Stapples for that matter? I mean, is it just me, or did this feel like that commercial were employees have to barter (and suck up) for supplies?
On a side note: I thought I read a comment somewhere were Joss said that he didn’t think that Seth Green had made the wisest of business decisions after leaving Buffy (presumably, he was talking about Greg the Bunny) and that he would’ve have loved to have had him for the Buffy finale. Does anyone know more about this?
Cause the parallels between this episode and Seth's show were uncanny!
"According to Buffy continuity, Angel got his soul back in 1898; and Spike killed a slayer during Boxer Rebellion in 1900. Does that mean that Angel was good at the time? Or is that one of the continuity glitches everybody talks about?"
It wasn't a continuity glitch, though it might look like it from watching the "Buffy" episode "Fool for Love" which showed Spike, Dru, Darla and Angel together during the Boxer Rebellion. However, the "Angel" episode, "Darla", which aired immediately after "Buffy", revealed that the ensouled Angel came back to Darla and tried to prove that he was still the same deep down ("I'm still a vampire.") so she would let him back into the fold. However, he didn't feed on anyone, and not only steered Darla away from a family of missionaries in an alley, but took a baby from her and ran off with it to keep her from having a snack.
In "Buffy" Angel says the whole place stinks of fear and that he's gotten bored, and heads off. The others follow. In "Angel", we learn that he said that to deflect Dru ("I smell fear.") from the same missionaries he'd kept Darla from seeing, then leaves to put some distance from themselves and the humans before one of the other three do notice them.
As it turns out, Darla was suspicious and went back later...
Didn't see the drag racing episode of Smallville, except for the teaser, and from what a co-worker told me, and from what I've read here, I didn't miss anything.
Rick
Regarding Gunn's recharged implant: I feel the drug addict analogy is more accurate than Flowers for Algernon. As soon as Gunn started losing his abilities (coming down from his high?), I said to myself "the first hit is always free...", which is the way drug dealers do business, at least on TV anyway.
I too believe that it (along with everything else) was a Senior Partners lie from the beginning. It amazes me how much of their lives Angel and company have turned over to one of, if not THE, biggest, baddest evils they have ever faced, all without hardly blinking and certainly without considering the consequences.
Even with all of these "resources," the gang still has at least as much trouble dealing with threats as they did when they opposed W&H, when at that time, Lila and the rest of the evil lawyers (well, more evil than average, anyway) always seemed to have the answers and know what was going on. How can Wesley and Fred, at least, not see that they are being kept in the dark most of the time? Or maybe the entire Knows-What-The-Hell-Is-Going-On-and-Keeps-The-Boss-Informed Department of Wolfram & Hart was closed due to budget cuts once Angel took over? It seems like sloppy storytelling and it bugs me.
Oh, and I thought the Man In Black said "Demon (not 'Human')Research Initiative," but I am relying on memory.
Somebody wrote:
"Actually, I seem to recall a UPN spokesman saying something along the lines of "Had we known then what we know now, we wouldn't have picked BtVS up."
When responding to my opinion, you left out my next paragraph: "After all, they will actually be getting a Whedon show [Angel] that is hitting its' stride-- not one [Buffy] that was rapidly sliding into a creative abyss."
That being said, I have NEVER heard anyone at UPN gripe about the BtVS pick up. Where did you read or hear this spokesperson say this?
I would be very curious to hear or see the full interview.
However, the "Angel" episode, "Darla", which aired immediately after "Buffy", revealed that the ensouled Angel came back to Darla and tried to prove that he was still the same deep down ("I'm still a vampire.") so she would let him back into the fold. However, he didn't feed on anyone,
Not true. He did feed after he got his soul -- on "thieves and scoundrels" -- in order to keep in Darla's good graces.
In Season 1, when he's trying to get Buffy, he tells her that he never fed off a single living being after he got his soul. But between his feeding to impress Darla and his turning Lawson, it turns out he was either lying or having an extremely convenient memory lapse.
In Season 1, when he's trying to get Buffy, he tells her that he never fed off a single living being after he got his soul. But between his feeding to impress Darla and his turning Lawson, it turns out he was either lying or having an extremely convenient memory lapse.
Probably lying. Then-Buffy would've had a problem with feeding from anyone. Mebbe by S3--certainly by S5--I don't see her having a problem with him feeding from "lowlife scum".
PAD (or Kathleen):
I guess make Angel puppets if you must.
I would love to see the "NF" bunch "puppetized" (think of the website promo stuff!), and would consider a purchase of a Mac puppet.
"Not true. He did feed after he got his soul -- on "thieves and scoundrels" -- in order to keep in Darla's good graces."
Right. I'd forgotten about that statement. But I'm not at home, so can't pop in the DVD to double check. But my point was that Angel hanging out with his old friends wasn't because of a lack of a soul continutity error, but of a desire to be with the only people he really knows when he's still trying to figure out what to do with his unlife.
As to why he'd feed on thieves and scoundrels, he hadn't fully come to terms with what he wanted to be, man or monster, and probably figured thieves and scoundrels were an acceptable alternative to the innocents he'd preyed on before.
"In Season 1, when he's trying to get Buffy, he tells her that he never fed off a single living being after he got his soul. But between his feeding to impress Darla and his turning Lawson, it turns out he was either lying or having an extremely convenient memory lapse. "
I'm not sure what you mean by "trying to get Buffy." In the scene in question, he's trying to convince her that they're on the same side.
As to his actual words, he could have justified it to himself that he was telling the truth (from a certain point of view, as Ben Kenobi once put it) about not feeding on anyone because A) the thieves and scoundrels didn't count since they were the bad guys; B) the guy in the sub didn't count, because Angel didn't actually feed, just turned him; and did so to save lives; and C, that the store clerk was mortally wounded anyway.
So, technically, he lied about not having fed, but he probably told himself that compared to what he'd done as Angelus, it was the truth.
Of course, the real world explanation is that "Buffy" and "Angel" are TV shows and on TV shows continuity errors pop up from time to time. When the "Buffy" episode "Angel" aired, no one knew that A) there would be a spinoff show focusing on Angel (who wasn't yet even in the opening credits of "Buffy"); B) Darla would be brought back in flashbacks (and later present day) and would flesh out Angel's back history; and C) that there would be another Slayer (Faith) whose own arc of redemption would parallel Angel's (and lead to more revelations about his background).
So, to my way of thinking, one should either accept there was a continuity error with the not having fed since getting a soul statement, or that looking at it from a story logic point of view, Angel was still dealing with certain issues, and not about to tell Buffy everything. In later years, he might've been more forthcoming about having fed on thieves and scoundrels, but when he and Buffy were still relatively strangers, "you can't know what it's like to do what I've done and to care", pretty much gets his point across: He's not like the vamps Buffy's been fighting. He has a conscience and regrets.
Rick.
In School Hard, Spike *embraces* Angel when he sees him (hardly the reaction of someone who had been abandoned at sea). And he's delighted when Angel loses his soul and returns to the fold.
Then again, Spike didn't seem *that* upset about having to swim for shore, as he didn't even attempt to fight him over it. I believe it was one of those cases of "hurry and you'll make it", not a "leave for dead" scenario... and little more than a temporary annoyance rather than a serious grudge. Given Spike's general attitude toward Angel in the WWII episode, I don't see it being too far out of bounds for him to greet his old grand-sire with a hug 40-odd years later.
I think Rick has good points from both POVs. First, it's a TV show and sometimes you have to contradict some created backstory to make good television.
From the POV of the characters, I think that most people are too trusting of the character on a well written show. To quote J. Michael Straczinski, speaking through Jeff Sinclair, "Everybody lies." If the show is well-written and smart, sometimes the character will lie to each other and it won't be obvious to the audience.
I have a very battered Jean Luc Picard puppet that Patrick Stewart signed with that lovely British reserve in full force. He did look a bit confused. Since then that little puppet has been many interesting places. NF might make an interesting set......Oh well back to work on Angel
Gunn does have a history of taking the easy way to things (recall he's literally sold his soul before in the demon casino ep). It's also playing off something I was mentioning last season; when he was on his own, Gunn was the first physical option. With AI, he kept dropping down the list; Angel's the first physical fight option, then it was Connor for a while, Wes both beefed up and started going John Woo on the weaponry. Meanwhile, Gunn still had his hubcap axe. Tying in with Gunn's spotlight ep with Gwen last season, he reasonably had been feeling fifth wheel with AI. The implant puts him as the main man in a useful area.
Now, on the other hand, we've seen that Gunn is smart, and could become a good, potentially great, lawyer if he wandered over to USC/UCLA for law school. But that'd require him to cut back on being part of Angel's outfit and the general action, and would also take several years, rather than the easy way of the implant.
The real question to me, although it may be moot due to the rapidly approaching end of the series, is whether he truly got a permanent implant, or is this one also going to wear off when bug-eyed guy needs another favor?
PAD, must agree with you on this one - the puppet episode best in a while (due to Whedon himself scripting it perhaps?).
Please Please Please send me an order form for the above-mentioned Angel Puppet! That was just about the most incredible puppetry i've seen outside of the original Jim Henson creature shop creations! (boo disney!)
Price may be prohibitive, but I have an anniversary coming up, so wth!
I should also mention that Kathleen makes great muppet-esque puppets. So anyone who's interested in hiring her to custom make a facsimile of the Angel puppet, drop me an e-mail and I'll forward your request on to her. It won't be cheap, but you'll certainly be the hit of your next Buffy con.
Any chance Kathleen might make a bunch of ANGEL/BTVS muppets for the DragonCon art show? Besides probably being able to rack up some nice coinage, it'll give the rest of us a chance to see the glory of Angel, Spike, and Giles in muppet form.
I'm not sure what you mean by "trying to get Buffy." In the scene in question, he's trying to convince her that they're on the same side.
What I meant is that he tells her this story in the same episode where he kisses her and, because he vamps out, she learns for the first time that he's a vampire. Later he gives her the story about never having fed off a living thing once he got the soul. I presumed that since he's kissing her he wants to be with her.
I agree that the real life explanation is that the writers changed their mind and thought up better stories as the years went on. But I like to work with what I've got, and it's not like it doesn't fit within the storyline. Angel wants Buffy, she's 16 and smitten, and he tells her a comforting lie. You might even be right that he justified it to himself on the grounds that the people he fed from were criminals.
I don't have a problem with it. Imperfect heros and dysfunctional relationships are more dramatic anyway.
I don't have a problem with the difference in Angel and Spike's relationship between the end of "Why We Fight" and the begining of "School Hard". There's a half century of time in there that they could have remet and patched things up a bit.
Just a quick thought - if Angel had let Spike stay on the boat, he probably would have been snatched up by government yahoos for experimentation. Even Angel had to jump before they reached shore. So, the way I see it, he probably did Spike a favor, something that Spike no doubt realized, but was still being grumpy about just for the sake of being grumpy.
re: puppet Angel episode. Absolutely hilarious. My brother and I had a long conversation over what would happen to Angel in puppet form if he was exposed to sunlight. For no particular reason, I insist that rather than bursting into flames, he'd burst into confetti.
... I did feel sorry for poor Marster's hair...first bleached, now blackened. I hope it doesn't all fall out by the time he's 40.
James Marsters, who plays Spike on Angel, is already 42 (born August 20 1962). His original contract with the WB required he keep his age a secret.